The Scathing Atheist - 651: Rowbotham Feeder Edition

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

In this week’s episode, Ryan Walters shows off his Oklahomophobia, a church-restaurant has to transubstantiate its bar inventory to keep its liquor license, and Marsh will talk the guys through the how-tos of canal sects. --- To make a per episode donation at Patreon.com, click here: http://www.patreon.com/ScathingAtheist To buy our book, click here: https://www.amazon.com/Outbreak-Crisis-Religion-Ruined-Pandemic/dp/B08L2HSVS8/ If you see a news story you think we might be interested in, you can send it here: [e-mail] To check out our sister show, The Skepticrat, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/the-skepticrat To check out our sister show’s hot friend, God Awful Movies, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/god-awful-movies To check out our half-sister show, Citation Needed, click here: http://citationpod.com/ To check out our sister show’s sister show, D and D minus, click here: https://danddminus.libsyn.com/ Report instances of harassment or abuse connected to this show to the Creator Accountability Network here: https://creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org/ --- Headlines: Trump-appointed judge rebukes Oklahoma’s Ryan Walters: https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/ryan-walters-oklahoma-judge-lawsuit-religious-freedom-rcna225290 Josef Fritzl case made me reject God, reveals Badenoch: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/08/07/kemi-badenoch-josef-fritzl-reject-god/ What’s even better than ‘cultural Christianity’?: https://christianconcern.com/comment/whats-even-better-than-cultural-christianity/  Texas megachurch pastor says scammers stole $18K pretending to work for Wells Fargo: https://www.christianpost.com/news/texas-megachurch-pastor-alleges-scammers-stole-18k.html Utah school board member defends comments amid criticism of faith, Unabomber references: https://www.utahpoliticalwatch.news/utah-board-of-education-member-praises-unabomber-claims-mccarthy-was-right-in-bizarre-speech/ Archbishop backtracks after appointing convicted rapist as chancellor: https://thecatholicherald.com/article/archbishop-backtracks-after-appointing-convicted-rapist-as-chancellor  Denham Springs revokes liquor license for restaurant hosting church services: https://www.wafb.com/2025/08/12/denham-springs-city-council-revokes-liquor-license-restaurant-hosting-church-services/

Warning, no one's only on the diatribe for this one, but most of you were going to turn it off after that anyways. This week's episode of The Skating Atheist is brought to you by the new DHS website for verifying your American citizenship. Clancishtree.com. Just send us a little blood and soil. And now, the scathing atheist. Former Texas resident happily living abroad here. Just popping in to ask, what's your favorite dinosaur? It's a great icebreaker for first day.

Personally, it could have saved me the trouble of explaining to not one, but two young earth creationist exes that we did, in fact, evolve from filthy monkey men. It's Thursday. It's August 21st, and it's Brazilian blowout day. Seems like a little too many. To me, how many people could possibly need that haircut? I'm Michael Marshall. I'm Elon Bosnick. I'm Ethan Wright.

And from Jeff Bezos is New Jersey, Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Liverpool, England. This is the skating east. Oh, this week's episode, Ryan Walters shows off his Oklahomaophobia. A church restaurant has to train. fans substantiate its bar inventory to keep its liquor license. And I'll talk the guys through the how-toes of Canal Sex. But first, the Diet Tribe. I'm back. Sort of.

As you may have noticed in the intro, I'm not all the way back. Didn't make it home in time to record the headlines in the C segment, but I did make it home in time to record some solo shit. and Marcel Marceau wasn't available to fill in for me like he did last week, so here I am for the diatribe. And as well, shock, nobody, I kind of want to talk about Alaska. But fear not, I am not going to make this my vacation slides, the diatribe. But if you do want to see my vacation slides, you should follow me on Facebook. There's glaciers and sea otters and mountaintop vistas and a weird owl concert. It was a great vacation. But the best part, well, fuck, I don't even know

if I guess best part probably isn't the right way to say it. But the part that impacted me the most and that I'm most happy that I did while I was there was something we did on our first day. On the recommendation of pretty much everybody I know who ever went to Anchorage, the first thing we visited was the Alaska Native Heritage Center. And holy shit, was it worth our time? Because I feel like Alaska retains some hint of its native flavor

more than any other part of America that I've visited. I don't get me more. Its absence is still genocidally obvious, but there's a far stronger afterglow of the native civilization there, then there is in places like, you know, fucking New York City or way across Georgia. For example, I learned while I was there that in Anchorage High Schools, students can letter in native athletic competitions. They were demonstrating some of those at the Heritage Center on the day we visited.

And honestly, the sports were very cool. The kind of shit that I could see a young, no illusions going out for in high school. And after that demo, another group demonstrated some native dance and music traditions. And then a dude came out with musical instruments that were used in the area a thousand years ago. It was really cool to see. And then there was this long loop where you could see how people lived in various regions of Alaska before Europeans started culturally erasing them. And then there we visited this like, I don't even know how to describe it other than to say,

Hall of Genocide. Right. There was an entire wing of this building given over to the extensive history of the various ways that Russian and then American colonizers tortured, raped, enslaved, and killed the Inupia, Aleut, Yup, and all the other various tribes that had to be cleared out. to make way for the cruise ship harbors and ski resorts that I would spend the rest of my trip visiting. I didn't know this going in, but the residential school system

that was recently made so infamous in Canada was actually pioneered in Alaska. Native Alaskans were the first people to be subjected to it. Their children were stolen away from them, stripped of their native garments and given these thin-ass European-style outfits to freeze to death in, and then forced into a life of slave labor and sexual abuse,

the ones that had a life at all that is. And this wing had all that history spelled out along one wall that I spent an hour reading through, through an ever-thickening lens of tears. But the most heartbreaking thing in the museum wasn't that wall of history, and it wasn't the display that showed the insufficient garments, these poor underfed kids had to try to survive Alaskan winners. And it wasn't even the metal tags that Alaskan natives had to wear so they could be tracked like fucking wildlife. The saddest thing was that intermingled with all that shit were a bunch of signs that they felt they need to put up that said some very, of, hey, white guy? Yeah, you, with the well-actually straining behind your purse lips, keep it to your fucking self.

Don't go to the counter and start trying to argue with the volunteer there about how colonization and cultural erasure and genocide was actually good for the Native Alaskans since it brought a modern medicine and Christian salvation. And while we're at it, don't show up and try to dump 158 years worth of white guilt on the first native-looking person you see in hopes that they can absolve you of generations of genocide that you're still profiting from,

because you said you're sorry like you mean it. And, of course, when you see signs like that, you have to have the same fucking reaction as you do. When you see those, please don't lick the electric fence type warning signs, right? You think about all the dumb fucks who necessitated it. You ask yourself how goddamn many assholes showed up at the Alaskan Native Heritage Center ready to defend the genocidal missionaries that slaughtered their ancestry before they felt the need to put up a fucking sign.

and another, and another, and another. But most of all, while I was there, while I was in that wing, I thought about all that we had lost through this bloodthirsty cultural homogenization. I thought about all the sports and songs and dances and musical instruments that didn't make it. And I think about what a fucking amazing country this could have been if Christian colonists could have lived alongside native cultures

rather than wiping them out. I think about what sports I'm going to. I might have lettered in in high school. I think about what an adventure exploring America could be if we'd allowed it to retain even a hint of its native culture. And I compare that to the fucking Ruby Tuesdays with different geology in the background that we have today. And I add that to the ledger of what Christianization has cost us.

They're talking about your Jesus. We interrupt this broadcast and bring you a special news bulletin. Joining me for headlines tonight are the golden my frankincense, Michael Marshall and Eli Bosnick Fellows. You're ready to come bearing gifts? Okay, that wasn't a gift, Heath. That was an investment opportunity, that goal? You know, Melchow the Wise Man,

he was just there to persuade Mary to put Jesus' college fund into a precious metal scam. That's what he was doing there. Which is why Jesus had to go into an apprenticeship instead. Yeah, and I heard by the time he was an adult, he was really cross about it. Buh, puns is stupid.

More of a character-based guy. Whatever. In our lead story tonight, we have yet another update about Christian bigot theocrat Ryan Walters, the superintendent of public instruction for the Oklahoma public school system. He is not having a good time lately. Last episode, we learned that it's very important to Ryan Walters that we all know he was not masturbating to vintage porn in his office on a Tuesday morning, which is a very specific thing to be denying.

Even if you have a really good cover story that checks out, making that announcement is not the win he thinks it is. No, it is not. No, it also, it feels like one of those very carefully worded denials where you can emphasize any single word. You know, not masturbating to vintage porn in the office on Tuesday morning. Not masturbating to vintage porn in his office on a Tuesday morning. Not masturbating vintage porn in his office on a Tuesday.

The only bit not in doubt is the masturbation. Yeah, the Buffalo Buffalo. Yeah, no, asterisk. Well, he just got another non-win in the form of a direct loss in court. The Freedom from Religion Foundation, or FFRF, was reminding Oklahoma school districts about the existence of the First Amendment, mostly because Ryan Walters was implementing so many violations of that. So Walters tried to sue the FFRF to get injunctive release.

against those reminders. And last week, a federal judge told him, you're stupid and threw out the lawsuit. Yeah, I'm suing them not to sue me. Well, it's original, Ryan. I'll give you that. And a big thanks to Johnny for sending the link to scathing news at gmail.com. So, Marsh, just to catch you up, along with anyone who missed it,

here's a quick timeline on Ryan Walters. Well, since getting the position in 2020, he's been trying to ruin the public school system by promoting semi-public religious charter schools and, of course, voucher programs that steal public money for religious private schools. He also completely rewrote the social studies curriculum to remove reality and instead focus on the Bible and the wonderful, purely ethical history of white people in America and Joe Biden stealing the 20. election. Then last month, he had a curriculum meeting with members of the school board during which there was full frontal nudity on the TV in his office. Yeah, there was. He got told to turn it off. He panicked. He yelled, how do I turn it off? I can't turn it off. He launched a cybersecurity investigation. He had to hire a firm for this into a porn-based conspiracy that he believed was happening. And then his

Republican colleague did some insane detective work that showed how the Samsung TV in his office was probably playing a Jackie Chan movie with full frontal nudity by default when the TV turned on. Now, theoretically

that all checks out, but I still think he's lying somehow. Yeah. Okay. Well, he's definitely lying in real how because if you'll remember, when they hadn't had this solution, he blamed the school board members he was meeting with for arranging an elaborate, timing-based ruse

to frame him for watching porn in his office. Also, he was doing this on Samsung TV Plus. That was showing full frontal nudity at 11 a.m. Meanwhile, it's impossible to see partial side boob at midnight in my country without first submitting a personal secret to a government website. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we got a lot of great freedoms over here on our side.

Also worth noting, Walters got hired in 2020 with a salary of about $40,000 a year as the person in charge of public schools for the state. And he also continued getting paid $120,000 a year by a Christian anti-public school advocacy group. That group is funded by the Walton family of Walmart fame and Charles Koch. So might sound like a conflict of interest, but Walters clearly had no conflict in deciding his interest. He's been working for the bigger salary. Yeah, I feel like if not knowing things can offer triple the salary of knowing things, that's its own problem to be dealt with in many ways. Yeah, that's a good point, Eli.

I want a pay rise. How much are you making? Oh, don't. We don't. We pay him what he pay. We don't pay. We don't pay, Mark. Just be cool.

We don't pay, Mark. It's crazy. He's getting. he's getting some stable coin. It's going to be cool. Hodel crew. And that brings us to the ruling from last week regarding his lawsuit. As the plaintiff, Walters mentioned the FFRF sending letters to Oklahoma school districts about obeying the law and claim those letters prevent education officials from doing their jobs.

So he demanded a federal injunction against the violent letter writing. He did not get the injunction. Instead, he got roasted by a Trump-appointed judge who's a member of the Federalist Society. Here's the ruling from U.S. District Judge John Hyle. Quote, plaintiffs claim they have been injured because defendant has infringed on their statutory and constitutional authority to administer the public school system. How do defendant's letters interfere with plaintiff's authority or ability to administer. In what way are plaintiffs precluded from administering because of letters?

What have plaintiffs intended to do but have been unable to because of letters? The complaint does not answer these questions. Okay, he was going to answer those questions, but then Samsung TV Plus started playing under siege and he got distracted by a Rikrilaniac in the birthday. Yeah, no, that makes sense. That makes sense. Oh man, Baywatch was awesome. And here's my favorite part. The ruling also pointed out how the existence of the lawsuit contradicts the entire claim of the lawsuit. Quote, plaintiffs cannot be both performing their duties by addressing the letters and impeded

from performing their duties by addressing the letters. Both things cannot be true. Stop hitting yourself with the letters. That's nothing, Ryan. That's nothing. You're the one. You're stupid. The ruling might as well end with like, go fuck yourself. Just not in your office right before meeting, please. So yeah, tough stretch for Ryan Walters. Just a reminder, that includes trying so fucking hard to make Donald Trump notice him and failing at that. Last year, Walters tried to buy 55,000 Donald Trump X Lee Greenwood collab branded Bibles for public school history classes. thanks to a tiny bit of sanity, he got forced to cancel that purchase, but then he bought 500 of those Bibles anyway.

He also made a video of himself praying for Donald Trump and told Oklahoma teachers to play that video in class. He was trying so hard to become the Secretary of Education for Trump, too. But he lost to a K-Fabe wrestling promoter. That one hurt. And just stepping back, bigger picture. When you're being opposed in your Christo-Fascist agenda by a Republican attorney general in Oklahoma named Gantner Drummond and a Trump appointed federal judge whose name is

Hile, something has gone terribly wrong in your stupid fucking brain. Yeah. And in Kemi Detached News, it is a sign of how right-wing politics in the UK has been going over the last year, that while I've talked a lot about Nigel Farage and his crack team of 17-year-old councillors or something, I don't think I've actually once mentioned the name of the current leader of the Conservative Party, despite them being at least on paper the government's official opposition. In fact, quickly, without looking it up, who is the current leader of the Tories? Spelling. Ah, lettuce. Yeah, yeah, incorrect. So the actual answer is

Olukemi Olifonto Adejoke Badenok. Bless you. Racist. Or Kemmy, for short. Okay. Marsh, but I bet you can't name the leader of the opposition

in the U.S. Yeah. Trick question. Nobody's leading the opposition in the U.S. Okay. That's fair. It's too real. He's got us there.

Anyway, the reason I've not really talked about Keni Badnock on the show is because, look. You'd run out of air time saying their full name. But the Toys are almost certainly going to stack it

get anywhere near the next election. And given how badly her party is cratering in the polls, she's just not remotely relevant. Okay, Marsh, you can't ignore the Tories every time they're polling badly. That's giving them invisibility powers. Should have gone with my guess of lettuce. Yeah, that's fair.

So that said, she did actually nudge herself in the general direction of relevance, at least for this show, very recently, because she told the BBC that, having grown up a Christian, she now no longer believes as a god, which, you know, don't worry, this isn't one of those, you've got to hand it to the Tory's moments

because all this really shows is that she's capable of getting the right answer to the easiest of questions. Though, given that she's a woman of color trying to appeal to the British Conservatives by announcing her atheism, she arguably has got the wrong answer to the second easiest question.

Sorry, Marsh. The order on this show is actually, first we defend someone on this show as not Islamophobic, and then the fact that they're an atheist becomes wildly secondary to their bigotry. Could she maybe get condemned by the SBLC real quick so we could defend her before we get started? We have a way of doing things here on the

Indian Atheist. I'm really glad Hitchens died. Right. So Badnock. Without saying anything problematic. I'm just saying it would have ramped. It would have rammed. All banger. Absolutely unblemished. Yeah. So Badnock describes losing her faith.

After reading about the Austrian kidnapper and incestrients, was rapist Joseph Fritzel and how his victim spent much of her 24 years of captivity praying to be saved. Badnock told the BBC, quote, I believe that there was a God and I would have defined myself as a Christian apologist, always arguing with people about why there was a God. And in 2008, this story about Joseph Fritzel and his daughter, who was locked in a cellar for 24 years, that killed it. Before adding that, while she isn't a believer, she quote, rejected God not Christianity, saying, so I would still define myself as a cultural Christian.

So she believes in God, she's just mad at him? Was this woman written by Kevin Sorbo? He couldn't spell that name. No way. But yeah, God's not dead. He's just a dick. Like, that would be a better argument if they would just honestly go. It's better than what they're going with, yeah.

So, firstly, that puts the cultural Christian bit, puts Badnock into the exact same camp as Richard Dawkins, which I'm sure we'll delight both of them. You know, perhaps they can both go halves on a pot of tea while listening to the bells of the cathedral and chatting about their shared public antipathy for trans people. But more to the point, once you accept that the Christian god would have to have spent a quarter of a century ignoring the pleas of a victim of unspeakable sex crimes, what does tipping you had to the culture created around that fictional deity actually get you? Like, nobody's trying to take Christmas or Easter eggs off you, Kemi. you don't have to leave one toe in the incest enabler pool just in case. Weird pick.

I tell Heath the exact same thing about his internet search history, but will he listen to Martin? We're not talking. You're going to get Marshall trouble with the law. We can't talk about this. He can't. It's true. Can't. So as you can imagine, the current leader of the traditional party of British conservatism, rightly highlighting the complicity that any Christian God must have had in the worst crimes imaginable,

hasn't gone down well with Little England. And they've been doubtlessly over-milky teas spit-taked into church halls across the home counties as a result. And we can actually get a feel for what those spit-takes consisted of, courtesy of the evangelical lobby group Christian Concern, who invited its readers to put Ms. Badnock into her place. Cool. By the way, side note, overly milky tea drinkers is a strong condemnation coming from March.

If you're listening in the UK, don't worry, we beeped it out. We beeped it out. And I told Marsh to delete his internet. search history. So let's look at the killer arguments of Christian concern readers. Someone called Ava wanted to tell Kemi that, quote, God has given every single one of us freedom, freedom to either do what we ought to do to fulfill our obligations to him and others, or to reject him and succumb to evil.

Fritzel chose the latter, unquote. And look, Eva, I don't want to backseat proselytize here, but I feel you don't go in heavily on the we all have freedom angle when you're talking about one of the famous most famous long-term kidnapping cases of all time. Because when she talks about

what Fritzel chose, she's very clearly only talking about 50% of the Fritzel's involved there. Okay, if there's a God, I feel like God had a writer's room with like really bad vibes. You know, just an angel being like, hey, God,

what if you, I don't know, give the humans free will, but just like minus the Fritzel stuff. I feel like the bit still works with the free will, right? That's you. We're moving on. I said we're moving on.

I have the speaking stick. I'm God. Still, we might actually, we might all be looking at this the wrong way. Because as Natalie points out, quote, Joseph Fritzel has not got away with his crimes because when he dies,

he will face the justice of almighty God, unquote. There you go, you see. It's fine. Cool. God let those crimes happen for over two decades because eventually the criminal's going to see some punishment. after he dies, eventually.

Hey, hey, God, what if we just like, I don't know, pair it down from 24 years. Okay, can this guy just get the fuck out? He's really ruining a writer's room, I'm God. And then finally, James was one of several Christian-concern readers who wanted to point out that cultural Christianity makes absolutely no sense. Writing, quote, Chemie, I understand why the evils you've seen

made belief in God feel impossible, Yet, perhaps the very moral outrage you feel is a clue. A compass pointing to the way things should be. Cultural Christianity preserves some beauty, but it's like admiring a doorway without stepping through into the light beyond. It's a weird doorway. A light with very explicit instruction on how to beat your slaves. Get in there, Kemi.

Okay, Christianity, it's a door painted on the side of a mountain with, is that slavery in the Holocaust inside? Okay, cool, yeah. You guys made that door great. And, you know, actually, I actually quite like James and metaphor about cultural Christianity being the open door. But I'd argue that by recognizing that there almost certainly isn't a God and there definitely isn't a loving God, Kemi has already stepped through that door into reality. So now, while she and Richard Dawkins and the other cultural Christians out there, all they need to do now is close that door to stop all the hypocritical, moralistic Christian bullshit coming back through.

Hey, God, quick question. And in Alls Well That Ends Wells Fargo News. You shot me in the fucking wing. Why don't you shoot me in the wing? If you're like me... I'm going to become Lucifer. Fuck you. If you're like me, it's hard to feel empathy for Christian theocrats.

Even when bad things happening to them have nothing to do with their theocracy. But this week, I found a moment of... connection because a Texas megachurch pastor says scammers stole $18,000 from his personal account by pretending to be Wells Fargo employees and as a former customer of that disaster of a bank, I get it. Okay, well, either a megachurch pastor loses 18 grand or Wells Fargo loses 18 grand or I guess the insurance company for Wells Fargo loses 18 grand. This feels like a win, win, win.

Yeah, just that mega-church pastor on the phone to the bank, well, how could someone just lie about who they're working for and what that person wants and then make false claims about their proximity to authority just to scam someone out of their personal savings? Yeah, no, I am just hearing it right now, actually. Yeah, I'm hearing it now. Right, so first off, big thanks to tinky-winky, presenting us this story to scathing news at gmail.com. I'm not sure if it's the actual telitubby sending us atheist news

to scathing news at gmail.com, but I'd like to pretend it is. and I thank you for your service to the gay community. Scathing News, gima.com. So, for those of you unfamiliar, Wells Fargo is a bank in the same way a hole in the ground is a bank if sometimes a hole in the ground mailed you an apology for fraud, along with a check for $8.14. Or for the British listeners who are tuning in because Marsh is here, think talk, talk, but with checking accounts.

Yeah, I heard that the bank was named Fargo because you might as well be putting your money into a wood chipper. Yes, exactly, exactly. Anyway, Pastor Brian McNally, who serves as the spiritual formation pastor at Grace Fellowship near Houston, got a text on July 30th from someone claiming to be a Wells Fargo fraud investigator. They said there was a suspicious $4,000 charge at Bass Pro Shop in Miami. They then walked him through the process of loading money onto an Apple cash card, assuring him it would be secure until moved to a new account. Instead, they drained more than $18,000 and hung up. Why would a bank need you to use an Apple cash card? They're a bank.

Whatever. It feels like this started as just kids doing a prank call about McAnally being the name there. But the call just kept going way too well. And they were like, I think I think we could just ad lib like a scam for $18. Guys, do you want to make $18 grand off this prank phone call? Yeah, exactly. One last detail about this story, McAnally, which is what I will be calling him for the rest of ever, claims that when he called them back, the scammers mocked him and made him, quote,

listen to them having sex, end quote. And look, I appreciate a little victory sex more than anyone, but they very clearly just played porn at him as a joke, which means this guy thinks the scam call center wrapped up their heist and celebrated with an imprompt to orgy. I think I'm starting to understand why he might have been fooled. Guys, guys, we got all this money, but we never got to do the McAnnelly punch line that we set up as the prank call thing.

Let's call him back and finish the bit at least, right? We already got the money. Come on. You've got to do this thing. Okay. Are we sure... And let's fuck. Are we sure that at Scam H.Q, they just didn't have a Samsung TV. That's probably what it was. 10 a.m. India time is when they always show the hardcore stuff. So yeah, I don't know

what McAanley got paid by his Medicare church, because that's secret and tax-free. But whatever it is, I'm guessing he'll be very clear this year about not accepting payment in Google Blake gift cards. And speaking of better ways to spend your money,

let's take a quick break for this week's sponsor our New Orleans live show on September 27th. Hey, podcast listener. I'm Eli Bosnick. And I'm He's Enright. You know, there are so few gathering spaces left for skepticism in the world. Less and less every year.

Okay, here we go. We might be in the minority, but we believe those spaces are still very important. That's right, Eli. They are very important. And one of those spaces is the God-Offle Movies Live show we have coming up in New Orleans on September 27th. With world-renowned guest lecturers, us. You don't even have a talk to give. We had time to write one. We could have written one. Did you? No. So please consider heading to God Awful Movies Live.com to purchase your ticket.

gets today. Because unlike some people, we are still willing to sell you tickets. It's sold out. Selling out is a good thing. That's godawfulmovieslive.com for available tickets to our live show on September 27th in New Orleans because we would never trade you for Joe Rogan. Okay, debunking Joe Rogan. I haven't listened. I wouldn't know. Why do I keep saying yes this? Because he loves. and in the jobs yours to lose news in what is essentially the wine pairing to my Joseph Fritzel main course this week I want to take you to France

where all the good wine pairings live their former teacher who is 25 years old and in particular I'm going to take you to Toulouse where the local archbishop has had to make an embarrassing climb down and rescind the appointment of their new dioceseing chancellor, a convicted rapist. Okay.

Well, I can't argue with the pairing, I guess. But, hey, when we hang out after QED, maybe we just let the Somme at the restaurant, like, do their thing. Well, I guess. Stop letting Andy make suggestions. So in June, Archbishop Guida Caramel named Father Dominique Spina. That's Guy of Caramel for those people. The vice chancellor for the diocese.

of Toulouse, and Chancellor and Episcopal delegate for marriages. And the move drew an immediate backlash, not because the appointment brought Spina's historic sex crimes to light, but because he'd already been tried, found guilty, and imprisoned for those sex crimes, a fact that was very widely known, and even referenced by the Archbishop during the appointment, who described the promotion as, quote, taking the side of mercy. Hey, God, a quick question about this one. I thought I shot that guy. I shot that guy in the first half of headlines, damn it. You did.

You did. It hurt. We're in the wing. So Spina's crimes date back to 1993, and they involve a high school student from a troubled background who Spina became the spiritual director to while the kid was exploring whether they wanted to become a priest and be part of the priesthood. Spina was 38 at the time and used his position of trust to commit a series of sexual abuses

against the teenager, including rape, between 1992 and 1994. Spina then prevented the young man from entering the seminary because the last thing you want as a spiritual director is to have your rape victim hanging around where they can talk to your colleagues. Competition, right. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. Nobody wants a loud snored at the end of every sentence of their sermon. You know, it's just like, oh, really? Stop.

Stop. This is awkward for me. And eventually a complaint was filed against Spina in 2002, and despite him arguing that his relationship, as a third-year-old man, with the teenager to whom he was a spiritual mentor was consensual, he was sentenced to four years in prison, with psychiatric experts at the time noting that he appeared to exhibit, quote, paranoid, narcissistic and perverse dispositions and a lack of guilt, unquote.

So Spina was paroled in 2007 and was allowed to resume his priesthood in 2009, including overseeing the youth ministry at his parish in Fronton, Boulog, Castel Nordel Estrette fond. Bless you. He was relieved with those duties in 2016. That was beautiful French

pronunciation. Twice in this story Marsh has nailed French and I have a new bit that I'm going to be obsessed with. That was quite a long one as well.

That took a little bit of reading head. A lot of French pronunciation in your future, Marks. Isn't that the leader of the opposition? As long as I'm not doing American accents, it's fine. Exactly.

So he was relieved with those duties in 2016 after there was a media backlash. But almost a decade later, he received the mercy of Archbishop de Caramel, and given the promotion to Episcopal Delegate for Marriages. Announcing the appointment, Dick Caramel said, quote, my decision was interpreted by many people as a snub to the victims of sexual abuse.

I ask the victim's forgiveness. This obviously was not my intention. Others finally saw it as a sign of hope for the perpetrators of abuse who'd served their sentence and are experiencing a very trying social death. Here I must ask forgiveness from the one I named and in whom I trust for not having been able to find the rightful place to which, he is entitled, unquote. Jesus fucking Christ.

Hey, I'm Archbishop, whatever. Bring it in. If you're worried about cancel culture, you might not want to like talk. You might want to kill yourself. You should kill yourself, I think. Yeah, not a bad idea. And look, it sure feels like the priority here

was finding a sweet gig for their boy Spina and not how best to ensure that his victim was respected. Because his victim wasn't notified about the prestigious promotion and was one of the people speaking. out against it. And look, we on the scathing atheist are obviously not against the concept of rehabilitation. We beg he to go almost every week. It's a huge thing here. No. But there is a long way between allowed to be reintegrated back into society and put into a position of authority and power, not unlike the position he used to groom and rape a teenager. In any other line of employment,

having used your job to rape someone would be disqualifying for that job in the future. But apparently, to some in the Catholic Church, it's an opportunity to talk publicly about exercising mercy while not even showing respect to the victims. Yeah. Sounds about right. Try to make me go to rehab, I said, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no. And finally tonight, in Stop Hitting Yourself News, you know, living in an ever-worsening theocratic housecape can be, to put it mildly, a bit of a bummer. Watching your rights disappear and fascist take over, over the literal streets. Kind of sad, frowny face, you get it.

But sometimes, sometimes theocratic bullshit comes back around to bite their own asses directly, which is exactly the case as a Louisiana restaurant has to stop serving alcohol because it also does church on Sunday. Already booked a spot for Eli's birthday brunch after the live show in New Orleans. Very excited.

Done and done. We are going to make a scene at this church, right? Yes. So the church storeant in question is the mustard seed creamery, an ice cream shop and restaurant in Denham Springs, Louisiana. Five days a week, the mustard seed does the food slash ice cream business. But one day a week, they host what they call the mustard seed church and prayer group. And that, according to the mayor and city council, makes them a church.

Yeah, I mean, also according to words, they're a church. And thanks to archaic Christian laws that make it illegal to sell alcohol within 300 feet of a church, they are now in danger of losing their liquor license as a restaurant. Oh, look, this Tito's vodka is the blood of Christ now. It's an absolution vodka. I get the license back now, right? I get it back. Okay, so it's illegal to sell alcohol near a church.

That might be the biggest gap between British and American culture that we've found yet. Because, okay, genuine fun fact, the village where I grew up, my local Catholic church doubled as one of the four bars in the village. That was one of the places you could go to get a drink. one of the other four places was genuinely my primary school. Crack. Come on. My primary school was where you could get a drink.

What? Tracks. Yeah. A man who escaped Michael Marshall. And look, I got to say, every take I have seen on this article has been sympathetic to the poor little ice cream store. And I get it, right? From a casual perusal of their Facebook, they seem like nice people who believe

incredibly stupid things. But the problem here, it's worth remembering, is Christianity. Christianity is the reason. is the reason you're not allowed to serve alcohol close to a church. Listen, they drive 301 feet away to the TGI Fridays. They have their pamphlet ready as a fucking tip, and then I make them drink whatever normal drink.

It's a normal drink. Don't fuck with the amazing system, Eli. Exactly. Yeah, it's all coming together. And Christianity is why the distinction between whether or not a place is a church or a restaurant matters as well. Because, look, being a church one day a week has a tremendous effect on, how they pay taxes, how they pay their employees, and if they can fire said employees for being gay or pregnant out of wedlock.

So as sympathetic as I am that this church has to move its Bible study out of the ice cream shop, I'm way more sympathetic to my country and the separation of church and state. I don't know, guys, maybe bring some ice cream to one of the tax-rebuildings, of which I'm sure there are dozens in Denham Springs, Louisiana. You'll figure it out. All right, and that's going to do it for the headlines. Marsh, Eli, you want to do a double exclamation? Jim Arsie!

And when we come back, Marsh is going to woo us. Often when it comes to the subject of who's woo, I've got to make a choice. What kind of story do we want to tell today? Do I go with a medical quack? or a religious fanatic, or a conspiracy theorist. Do I go for someone who's sincere or a con artist? Do I do a historical tale or do I do something with a modern relevance? Well, today we're going to be going with secret answer all of the above.

Okay. Because we're going to talk about the father of the Flat Earth movement, Samuel Robotham. Ooh, okay. I feel like a lot of the people we talk about are multi-category, but historical tale with modern relevance, you have me hooked, sir. What did I say? Samuel Burley Robotham was born in Stockport in 1816,

and relatively little is known about the early years of his life, save for what he would later claim to have been true, which, you know, as ever when it comes to Who's Woo entrance, isn't really a trustworthy standard. Sure. But according to the adult Robotham, when he was a schoolboy, he'd skip the astronomy lessons at school, because he explains that he skipped those lessons because he believed the world was flat,

But I'd argue that the causation is more likely to have run in the other direction. Yeah, the world is flat because he skipped the lessons. Got it? Also, I think he's lying. A teacher would say like anything about a planet or a map or a sphere and he'd like dive out the window on philosophical grounds. That's how nothing works. Yeah. All right, kids, let's all form a circle.

Except for Sam, God, he's gone. Fuck you. Still, in the absence of learning true stuff about. the universe, he turned instead to a different source of knowledge, the Bible. And there he realized that all this newfangled Newtonian solar system with the sun at the center, well, that was a direct threat to his version of God, so it'd have to go. And whether that really was what was in his infant brain at the time or not, it does seem pretty clear that it's what the adult Robotham thought, especially at the age of 22 when he took up the call to help start an Owenite commune in

the Cambridge offends. But by this point, by the age of 22, he'd become known as a radical and he was a devoted follower of wealth socialist and social reformist, Robert Owen, who promised to fund and build utopian paradises of cooperative workers in the English countryside. I'm just longing for the politics of 1816 in the English countryside right now. Sorry, just give me a second. That'd be nice. Maybe D.C. our nation's capital. That'd be great, too. So for his part, Robotham had quite a bit of power in that burgeoning commune.

He was appointed the secretary and he was tasked with finding a location for the project. And quick to make sure of that power that he had, he settled on the project taking place the commune being set up on the banks of the Bedford Canal, which is a 21 mile,

dead straight waterway that he thought would make for the perfect testing ground for demonstrating his flat earth proofs. Amazing. And in a way he was right, because 200 years later, flat Earthers would still cite the Bedford-level experiments as proof that the world is definitely not a spitting ball. And that's how they won you over on TikTok.

Okay, good to know the origin of your villain nerd. Okay, I'm feeling like pretty confident on the spheroid thing, but if it turns out to be flat, that's going to be pretty funny, right? Like, if we're all somehow proven wrong, we're going to be like, all right? So Robotham claims that having waded out in the middle of the canal one, day with his telescope, he was able to see very clearly the full height of the boats that were sailing at the far end of the canal, so 21 miles away. And also that during winter he was able to use the same telescope to watch ice skaters skating on top of the canal six miles away.

And that would have been impossible, that should have been impossible, given that the curvature of the earth causes a drop of eight inches per mile squared. So those ice skaters, who were six miles away would have been 24 foot below the horizon when he watched them with his telescope, which obviously wouldn't be possible. Those ships that were 21 miles away would have been 100 yards below the horizon. I think he's lying. But how could anyone explain this other than the belief that the round earth was wrong and the Earth was actually flat all along? Come on, people. I can't be wrong about astronomy and math. What are the odds? Well, okay, I mean, there are two ways to explain it. There was, he's wrong and didn't

realize or he was wrong and he very much knew it. Oh, I think I know which one of it is. Call me. Call me, though. Call me. I live in my house with my wife. I'm a small spoon. If it helps figure which is which, according to the archaeologists who've studied the time period, it is hugely unlikely that he would have had access to a telescope that was

even capable of seeing that far. So, no, he didn't go out with a telescope. But on this mistake and or lie, the entire of the modern Flat Earth movement was built. It's lie. The observations that he claimed have made that day would actually go on to be foundational

to the YouTube Flat Earth movement when we witnessed it rise in 2018. When very obvious lying would be carried into the future. If this guy was alive today, I feel like he'd be yelling at those YouTubers just being like, guys, I got it wrong.

You can get to the white supremacy other ways. You're making white supremacy look bad. We look stupid now. So his fanaticism for proving the Earth flat might have actually affected his commitment to his other projects, like the commune. The commune at the time was struggling between labours that were going unpaid, despite it being sort of a socialist commune, and also the various social firebrands that were making up the commune just spent most of their time arguing with each other, because nothing ever changes

on the left, unfortunately. The past. Plus, there was also a series of sex scandals with gossip among Owenite communities that the fen community, the Banea fens they were called, that community. saw marriage as oppressive to women and encouraged a more open sexual society of free love. Sorry, Thompson, but I'm looking through this

telescope and I cannot see a ring. Whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh. You've got to picture me doing the dance. Also, it helps if you Google the guy. Doing the dance like halfway submerged up to his neck in the canal as well. Yes, exactly. You fucking gay, you mind reader, you.

God save the Queen Bee. Now, all of this call. day major scandal in 1830s, Cambridges. And the commune disbanded. Roebotham turned his back on Owenism, but he stayed true to his flat earth beliefs. But now he needed a new gig. And he found it in selling the secret to immortality. All right.

That's a solid pivot. You got to be agile in your business, right? Yes. Doesn't matter who moved the cheese. You just do it. Pivot. So he branded himself as Dr. Burley, possibly to distance himself from all the sex scandal attached to the Robotham name.

Then he claimed to have discovered that a special diet of phosphoric acid and lime could prevent the body from aging, which was a truth that even the medical professionals at the time knew and withheld from the public. Okay, he invented modern flat earthism and the one simple trick. This guy is good. He's out there. He's out there. But apparently, he says he had devised a way to make such a phosphoric potion drinkable, and he began to sell it as the cure for everything.

He described it as aquavita. He even described it as a new form of holy water. In reality, it was basically soda water. And that wasn't even something he invented. That had been on sale by other people for quite a while by this point. Okay, but to be fair, I would way rather drink phosphoric acid than soda water. So this is all coming away. Somehow you're like 5 and 85 at the same time for everything that you like.

Me, baby. Juice. So his time being a traveling snake oil salesman, Saul Robotham, find use for his firebrand debating style, and it saw him hone his oratory skills. And soon he was ready to go back to his one true passion, which was telling people the world was flat. So what he'd do is he'd combed through the Bible to cherry pick any passages he could find that he could sort of shape into a flat earth argument as long as you read only those passages, no other bits, and only them as interpreted by Robotham specifically. Right, like the Bible verses that have daytime in one place and night time.

in another place at the same time. Okay. Now, to be fair, the Bible is very clear that the earth is going to be rolled up like a scroll, which feels like the only passage he'd need, right? Yeah. Ah, now it's a cylinder. That's round five. Oh, shit. They got us again. Well, the Bible

might not have been the only book that he was drawing on for inspiration at the time because many of his arguments felt similar to those found in an 1819 book, the anti-Newtonian, including specifically the map of the solar system that

Robotham was fond of telling people that he'd created. You see, you think it's easy to spread misinformation in the age of AI. Anti-Newtonians just got to say math words in a snarky voice. Just, really? Angles? Sounds made up to me. No, no, let's talk about angles, though.

Newton's Apple fell down because England is in the fucking middle. You can go to China, they fall to the left, or to the right if you're facing fucking down. You ever been to China? No, exactly. angles. So Robotham was touring the country, giving lectures about the flat earth, and causing as much commotion as possible in doing so. He was mixing his carefully picked Bible passages with his

trust what I say I saw tales of Canals in Cabrature, while also throwing in some of the don't trust the elite they're trying to control you that was very popular at the time. And subsequently, in fact, and in a move that shows pseudoscience has always worked the same way, it didn't matter at these lectures that what he was saying was whether it was scientifically or mathematically nonsense, because he delivered it with such an impressive style and panash that people believed it.

They needed a row both of the left for science. So, Globe Earthers would turn up to heckle him, but he'd just stay calm and deflect, and he'd deploy rhetoric rather than science, and they weren't ready for that. As a correspondent to the Leeds Times observed at the

time, quote, one thing he did demonstrate was that scientific dabblers, unused to platform advocacy, are unable to cope with a man, a charlatan, if you will, but clever and thoroughly up in his theory, thoroughly alive to the weakness of his opponents, unquote. It was precisely the same thing I'd see when skeptics visited, like, they'd turn a bit flat earth forums online around 2014, and they would lose arguments to people who'd studied the science, but not the bullshit, essentially. Right. And to be clear, not caring that you're lying is a hell of a weapon in a debate, everybody. It really...

Yeah. Very easy to throw someone through a little. Or a business meeting. It's fun talking to Eli. That too. It's neither sphere nor there. Oh, phenomenal. Phenomenal.

And meanwhile, in what is, again, a very clear parallel with the modern movement he inspired, Robothan's profile was continually boosted by people who were following him and consuming his work for its novelty or comic value. Getting a little too meta, bud. Dial it back. You want to dial it back? And he claimed that his papers were read at a Royal Astronomical Society meeting, and they probably were, but only because the Secretary of the Society found his papers

and read excerpts of them as a joke. Meanwhile, the newspapers would write about his lectures as a source of spectacle and amusement, but that had only make more people attend, and each of them were paying sixpence ahead, and then he'd be able to convert some of those people into flat-earthers. So he'd actively goad hecklers in his advertisements and posters, challenging them to show up because he knew that the resulting spectacle could only work in his favor.

Yeah, but has Kevin Sorboer, David A.R. White ever sent us a thank you note? No! Okay, this guy invented Flat Earth one simple trick and the YouTube algorithm. This guy's a genius. He is. So Robotham rebranded himself as Parallax, possibly to distance himself from those all sex scandals again,

or maybe from his ineffective miracle cures or maybe even to avoid people associating the polished version of his ideas with the guy who, to begin with, got so badly heckled on his first night of a two-date lecturing gig in Blackburn that he just didn't show up for the second night. Okay, well, it's definitely not the first thing, Marsh,

because sight unseen any dude that calls himself parallax, fox. You hear me, Marsh? Parallax? Fuck. Okay, just to be clear. he had to cancel his town hall meetings and then he changed his name to a concept that actively disproves his whole theory. Like, Mark, did you write us into a simulation?

What has happened? Yeah, maybe I did. And also, Parallax Fuchs, but mostly he stays still and the stuff around him moves and that's how he goes about. Yeah, no, that's fair. So in 1865, he wrote up some of... Like McDanielie.

Exactly. In 1865, he wrote up some of his greatest arguments in his book, Zetetic. astronomy, the Earth is not a globe. And the book included his diagrams of his Bedford level experiments. And those diagrams would be specifically replicated precisely in modern flat earth books, like Eric DeBay's hugely influential 200 proofs, Earth is not a spinning ball. So after 150 years, the exact same arguments with the same diagrams were proving to be just as successful

in recruiting people to the Flat Earth cause as they were originally. Just like Darwin still work says atheist propaganda is a tie. So one ardent follower of Parallax and Zatetic Astronomy was a guy called John Hamden, who was a Christian polemicist who'd really take up the flat earth cause, and he reproduced Rawbotham's arguments in his own books, and he parroted many of the arguments from another Parallax disciple, who was a pamphleteer called Common Sense, aka William Carpenter. Hamden put his money where his mouth was, so he put an advert in an 1870 edition of scientific opinion, where he offered a 500-pound bet,

which is a lot of money at the time, to anyone who could prove the Earth was round. And that bet was immediately taken up by Alfred Russell Wallace, the naturalist who was essentially the silver medalist when it came to figuring out evolution. Because the flat earth movement sought to prove Darwinian evolution wrong, and the Bible, by extension, literally true. So this whole thing became a proxy bet about the very truth of God. I mean, to be fair, all true things are a proxy bet about the truth of God, Mark. It's just

the nature of existing. So Alfred Russell Wallace, he suggested a few different locations where they could carry out experiments to prove the shape of the earth, all of which Hamden refused. Hey, it feels like it's flat from everywhere or round from everywhere. Can we

just do it anywhere? Well, Hamden had just one place in mind. The Cartesian Plain is where we shall do the experiment. Even better, the Bedford-Level Canal, the place where it all began. I didn't hear no bell. They agreed to repeat Robotham's experiments, and each man, to be fair, brought along a neutral assistant chosen to help with the task.

But Hamden's neutral assistant was, unbeknown to Wallace, William Carpenter, aka the Flat Earther Common Sense, who, as you might imagine, deliberately fucked with the experiment as much as possible to sabotage it in Hamden's favour. So he was asked to hold the tripod and he kept dropping the leg of it and bumping into the telescope

and he did all sorts of things just to muck with it. And eventually he was rumbled and he was removed from the experiment. And here's your ruler. Oh, is it meant? Must have sat on it in the carriage over here. Wink.

Okay, you're obviously too. Everybody go to a different room. It's like when we play code names, you have to go to a different room. Everybody out. We're just doing it. Exactly. Yeah. Now, obviously, without Robotham there to lie about what he could see, Wallace's experiments proved the world was not in fact flat. But then Hamden claimed the experiment actually

vindicated him. He found out a technicality he could use that wasn't true, but he could use to try and argue to people. So this became a whole thing for a while. Eventually, the experiment was repeated. This time, a painstaking process to get genuinely neutral referees involved. And again, Wallace was proven right that the world was not in fact flat, and he was awarded the five and a pound prize. At this, John Hamden was furious, and he literally spent the rest of his life calling Wallace a fraud and a thief and alleging there was a vast conspiracy against him. He put porn on my TV, that was him. He did. There was the porn. That was where it from. At one point, he sent letters to Wallace's wife, threatening to kill Wallace. And in the end, Wallace had to bring charges. And Hamden

went to jail. And then he served a sentence. And as soon as he was out, he went back to his same campaign of libel and death threats and was sent back to prison. And this just kept repeating. Hi. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's the guy you let out this morning. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, no, he's on my front lawn yelling literally murder right now. Hey, bud, seems like you'd hatch a new plan. It's fine. Just sit tight. Just sit tight. It's going to be cool. They're coming back. The car is just around the block. They're going to make you eat. We have phones now somehow. So this cycle of libel and court cases and jail terms, that went on for 15 years, exhausting Alfred Russell Wallace, who came to see his actual involvement in the bet in the first place as a massive mistake

for the amount of misery it brought him in his life. And Hamden, he fed even worse because the repeated court cases brought as a result of his behaviour drained his considerable fortune. And he died in 1891, at which point he was essentially destitute, having started an exceptionally rich. man. If only they had giveeth, sendeth, goeth. Now, Robotham, for his part, he found the whole debacle of the bet and the subsequent acrimony to be extremely misguided, not least because the various headlines the feud had made in the newspapers over the years were detracting from his own fame and publicity. In his later years, Roboth stopped giving flat earth lectures, but he did briefly come out of retirement in order to accept an invitation from Hamden to repeat the

Bedford level observation again. At this point, he was too old and too disinterested to even get into the water. So instead, he chose to conduct his experiment from a bridge, which given geometry, would have rendered all the measurements completely meaningless. Whatever.

I was fucking lying. I don't want to get wet. I'm so tired. I'm too old for this shit. I mean, just... I was lying. Lie about what I saw. I just wanted to have a fucking commune. God damn it. Robotham spent his latter years enjoying the wealth of his snake hole business, which continued to bring him a steady source of income throughout

his life. Then in 1884, he was getting out of a carriage when his foot slipped, and the 68-year-old Robotham fell to the ground, sustaining injuries from which he'd never recover. And he died later that year. And so that is the story of the father of the Flat Earth movement, who left behind a body of work that 150 years later would go on to radicalize a whole new generation of YouTubers. All in all, I'm sure you'd agree, a worthy candidate for Who's Wu? I love that he died because of gravity. Because of gravity is the best.

I literally had to miss out the bit where he married a 15-year-old and had like a dozen kids and possibly killed at least two of them, at least one of them. He poisoned one of them. Yeah, Mark, good leave out. Fucking, of course he did. Before we loop back around to our starting position, to thank Heath and Eli one more time for taking care of things while I was gone. There are not many self-employed people who can take as care-free vacations as I can,

and those two guys are the reason for it. Thanks. Anyway, that's all the blasphemy we've got for you tonight, but we're back in 10,000, 22 minutes with more. If you can't wait that long, we'll look up for a brand-new episode for Sister-Sell, The Skeptych out of The Skeptychette, debuting at 7-Eastern on Monday, and even no episode of her sister-show's hot friend God-offel movies, doing at 7-Eastern on Tuesday, and an even newer episode of our half-sister-ssel Citation Day to debut in at noon-eastern on Wednesday.

I've been on vacation. It's been a while since I had to talk this fast. Obviously, this show wouldn't show if I neglected to thank Heath Henry for being such a badass, Eli Bosnick for being such a good ass, and Michael Marshall for being such a bad arse. I need to thank the lovely and talented, hallucin delusions, for being the best damn travel companion since Ann Clark. I also want to thank the person who provided this week's Farnsworth, quote, who would rather remain anonymous. But most of all, of course, I want to thank this week's best bipeds.

Liz Audrey, Andrew, Oso, Hermoso, Zingu, Robert, Dan, Pistles, McGee, Dog, Ouija, Sid, Inigo, Montoya, Cici, Lady, Ryan, Victoria, Robert, Kayla, and Trier of pods who are so sexy Putin came all the way to Alaska just to be closer to them. Which works great as a joke, as long as I don't tell you that one of them is from New Zealand and another one is from Norway. Together, these 18 Atheist Cowboys movie characters and beautiful bears came together, not in that way, to help keep this show on the road and off the street by giving us money. Not everybody has the money that it takes to pay for free shit,

but if you do, you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com slash scathing atheists, whereby you own early access to an extended ad-free version of every episode, or you can make a one-time donation by clicking on the donate button on the right side of the homepage at Scalingadias.com. And if you'd like to help, but your money's all tied up and court-ordered jellyfish restoration, you can also help a ton

by living a five-star review, telling a friend about the show and following us on social media. And speaking of social media, Tim Robertson handles that for us, and our audio engineer is Morgan Clark, who also wrote all the music who was used in this episode

and nope was used with permission. If you have questions, comments, or death threats, you find all the contact info on the contact page at skatingatius.com. I'll see, Marsha's been speaking to my inner voice again. I've spoken to you about that, Marcia.

I really wish you would stop. This content is canned credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm at their hotline at 617-249-4-255 or on their website at creator-accountabilitynetwork.org. The preceding podcast was a production of Puzzle and a Thunderstorm LLC. Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.