The Science of Flipping - Episode 118: Learn About Real Estate Sales With Expert Sales Trainer John Martinez

Episode Date: April 30, 2018

document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", function () { podlovePlayer("#player-5eb5ab3048426", "https://thescienceofflipping.com/wp-json/podlove-web-player/shortcode/post/2936", "https://thescienceofflipping.com/wp-json/podlove-web-player/shortcode/config/default/theme/default"); }); document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", function () { podlovePlayer("#player-5eb5ab3048490", {"title":"Episode 118: Learn About Real Estate Sales With Expert Sales Trainer John Martinez","subtitle":null,"summary":null,"duration":"","poster":null,"chapters":"","transcripts":"","audio":[{"url":"https://audio.simplecast.com/0d0686e2.mp3","mimeType":"audio/mpeg","title":"AUDIO/MPEG","size":0}]}, "https://thescienceofflipping.com/wp-json/podlove-web-player/shortcode/config/default/theme/default"); }); Want to know more about sales? My man John Martinez is an expert sales trainer in the real estate investing space. Get a Free Coaching Call with TSOF team. CLICK HERE TO FILL THE FORM. JOIN MASTERMIND  — APPLY NOW!!

Welcome to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Colby. What is up? What is up, everybody? Welcome back to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I'm your host and founder, Justin Colby. If you're watching this on YouTube, you are seeing I have another incredible guest with me. If you're just listening to me on iTunes or any other platform, welcome. And before I introduce my incredible guest, if this is the first time you happen to fall upon this podcast or found me, and you're interested to know more about my story, what I've gone through, how I went from living on a couch to being able to build a seven-figure-a-year empire in real estate investing, I will give you my book. It is the same book I sell on Amazon. It's a real book. We just put it into a e-format, meaning we can email

it to you. So if you just go to the scienceofflipping.com forward slash book, you can download my real book. Now, if you want to buy it on Amazon, I'm not going to stop you. But go ahead and get that for free, thescienceofflipping.com forward slash book. This podcast is all about creating systems, tools, implementation, strategies, and tactics based around building a real estate investing business from wholesaling to wholetailing to rehabbing. And what I've done today is I've brought on what I would argue and many people would argue is the top sales trainer in the industry, Mr. John Martinez. What is up, dude? Hey, what's going on, Justin? Good to be here. Thanks for having me on. Of course, man. I mean, we've run in the same circles for quite some time and it was just a matter of time for our schedules to be put together so that

we could jump on a podcast and really give the people what they want to know, which is how the fuck do I buy more deals? Yeah, that's what everyone wants to know, right? Right. So just to give, you know, everyone kind of a quick background, I'll let you tell your story. John and I, you and I known each other probably for the better part of two or three years, kind of a quick background I'll let you tell your story John and I you and I known each other probably for the better part two or three years kind of circling around each other I have a background in sales John has has massive background in sales so over time we've talked kind about maybe putting something together figuring out a way to kind of take take all of our knowledge and put it out there and it never really came about but at least

we've been able to do this I know you have years and years in sales training and what you've been able to do, especially with people who are really running hard at lead generation is you've been able to teach the industry, real estate investors, how to best qualify, quantify, go on deep dives, short dives, get commitments, minor commitments, and all these strategies, which if you're unfamiliar with the techniques of selling, John is your guy, right? Midwest Revenue Group is his company. He's been doing this now for, you've been in the mastermind world now for two or three years. Yeah. I mean, we're, I think we're pushing for in real estate. Yeah. And, you know, so again, my clients go to him, literally my clients, my mastermind clients go to him. Uh, friends of mine go to him. In fact, I'm sending my team, uh, here in April

23rd, 24th to his next bootcamp. Cause he is the guy. And listen guys, at the end of the day, this isn't just here to sell John Martinez, but if it's good enough for me to send my team to his bootcamps, I'm telling you now it's good enough for me to send my team to his boot camps, I'm telling you now it's good enough for you and your team to go. So John, why don't we just start with, give us the background. How did you get into the space and now kind of, you know, in my eyes, and I think the industry, you are the leading thought leader for sales, negotiating, questioning in the real estate investing space. So how did this all kind of come about? Yeah, it was a complete accident actually. I never planned for it to happen and I think, so I'll kind of tell you how I got into it. And the way I got into it is the reason why I think

our stuff has been so effective. So I worked probably the better part of 15 years in corporate America and sales training in the B2B world, building sales teams, hiring salespeople, training salespeople, ultimately in about 50 industries, but never in real estate. And so I've done that my whole life. And I did some training with a lead generating company that caters to investors and real estate agents. And through that got connected with an investor down in the South, in the Texas area. And he said, Hey, will you come down and help me out? And I, you know, it was the first time I heard about, you know, the other side of real estate, right? The creative part of real estate. I said, sure. And I learned what he was doing and we did some sales training it worked really well and he was in different masterminds and things like that and the word started spreading before I knew it it

was 20 50 100 different you know investors that I was working with all on the higher levels right all with sales teams and you know doing some pretty heavy marketing and things like that so you know I think the reason I think that's really the reason why our stuff has been effective is because we're completely from the outside world, right? A lot of the stuff I saw, a lot of the stuff that goes on in real estate, it's all kind of stayed in that bubble. So there hasn't been a massive shift in time. A lot of the stuff that works has come to the surface, but at the same time, while all the stuff that works has come to the surface means everybody's using it. So I think because our stuff was just a completely different perspective from the business to business sales world, I think that's

why it really was able to take hold and why it's effective. Yeah. And I have a very similar background. I did B2B and res. I actually owned a sales company and our clients were like UPS, Verizon, credit card processing with like Eagle first and first data. And what else did we have? I mean, we kind of ran the game of what our clientele was, but we go B2B and or residential. And there's a lot of similarities, but it's all based around your ability to get in there based around question-based selling, right? And that's what to me has always been the key is, is I always look at it as I, if I'm a doctor and you're a patient that comes into my business and you're ill and you're trying to explain to me what hurts, what doesn't feel good, I'm not just going to be able

to say, okay, well go ahead and take this medicine. You're going to be great. I need to know more. Why, when, how hurt, you know, I'm going to pepper you to find as much as I can about your illness. And we take the same idea and concept into this space where I need to know as much as I can while sitting down with that seller to pull out how I can give them the remedy. Cause at the end of the day, there's a certain level of pain while you're even in their living room, right? So I think that's a huge component of, again, whether you're going B2B, whether you're going residential or in this space, real estate investors, you're dealing with arguably the most important thing, asset, you know, they have in their life. And it's just not as easy as saying, hey,

buy these shoes or buy this or, you know, use Verizon versus AT&T. Like, it's just a different thing, right? It is, man. It's completely different. And I love what you're saying there, the analogy you put together, because it is all about questions. And, you know, every person who's been in sales for a while knows that, but it's also been, you know, validated by sales studies. Probably about a dozen of them in the last 20 years, all starting with a company called Hathwaite. Hathwaite did a study that lasted about 12 years, and they really examined about 35,000 sales calls.

They went into the study thinking, hey, what makes the best salesperson? And their hypothesis was, hey, whoever can close the best, whoever had the best closing training, whoever has the best closing techniques. What they found, though, was the top 1% and 2% of salespeople in all industries, it had nothing to do with their training on closing. It all had to do with the questions they asked. That's what made them so effective. So I love what you said because it's been substantiated and validated just time and time again. That's the way you sell is through questions.

So let's just dive in there because I know my listeners are thinking, okay, so what are the questions? What are the questions, John? Come on, what are they? So let's just kind of, I don't want to say role play, but let's just go through the example of we're sitting down in front of a seller and we're in their house. Let's start off. Where do you take this? You know, you shake the person saying, you say, Hey, thank you very much for allowing me to come into the house. I know I'm a complete stranger. So I really appreciate you being open to this. Where do you take that conversation? Where does John take that? Yeah. So it's, it's interesting before you even get to the questions, you got to set up the right environment because if we just think about our own lives, if we're walking onto a car lot we're in a timeshare presentation we're in any type of sales scenario we've got our walls up right we got our guard up and in order to

ask questions and get some solid answers we've got to start to set up the environment right away to overcome that natural resistance that everyone has right they're going to be scared hey if i say too much am i going to get taken advantage of? Am I going to be pressured into something? So before you even get into all those questions, the first thing any good salesperson or investor, if you're buying houses at deep discount, need to know is what are some of the things I need to start to put in place to kind of relieve that pressure, relieve that fear, that anxiety, and set up the stage for an open and honest communication conversation. Yeah. So what would be generalizing, right? Because every situation,

what's some of the anxieties or fears that homeowners that you've been able to tap into now after years of kind of being a sales trainer in this space, what's a couple of general rules of thumb that you know that this is, you know, their fear, their anxiety, what are those things? Yeah. So the, I'd say there's a few of them, but the biggest one is the fear of being pressured into something, having to make a decision too early. Um, the fear of a salesperson who won't take no for an answer. That is the biggest fear people have. And that is the biggest reason people hold back whenever they, I call it sales pressure. Whenever anyone feels sales pressure, like,

like anything else unpleasant in our lives, and we feel something bad that we don't like, we fight or we flee, right? So, you know, if you're, if someone feels sales pressure, they're going to fight, become hostile. A few people do this. Not a lot of people, they'll become hostile. You know, you'll be in those sales calls and you notice, man, they are, I don't know what I did to rub this guy or gal the wrong way, but they're coming at me. Or they're going to flee. And in those cases, when you're in a house or over the phone trying to buy a house, what fleeing looks like are short answers, ending the call early, maybe misleading or lying even. It doesn't mean they're bad people, it's just they feel a lot of pressure.

So that's what you see when you, when you, that's how you recognize pressure, right? We've all seen it now that I've talked about it. We call it, yeah, I know plenty of prospects. You won't answer my questions or they just give me one word or they go, I don't know what's your offer or they jumped down my throat. So we got to relieve that pressure so we could get into the questions. So the biggest thing again to relieve that pressure is to relieve the pressure

Or the thought in their heads is this gonna be a hard sell what's gonna happen? And the biggest thing there is just is to let them know right off the bat. Hey, this might work. This might not work You know probably come into four or five houses a day and I only buy one of them So chances are it won't be yours But but let's give this our best shot. And all the way through from the start all the way on, that's the attitude you got to have. Almost a little bit of reluctance. I mean, it is a little bit of reluctance to buy the property. So right off the bat, hey, here's what we're going to do.

I'm going to walk the property. I'll kind of put together my numbers, kind of ask you some questions about what you're looking for, what you want to get out of this, so I can figure out how to put this offer together and then at the end I'll give you my offer down to a penny and if you love it I got some paperwork we can fill it out if timing's not right if the offer is not right no sweat we gave this thing our best shot that right there to set up a call will relieve a ton of pressure. First 30 seconds, 45 seconds. I love that. I love that. Well, and then, so let's jump into the next phase, right? Just because we only have so much time and you could teach and train this for an hour, I mean, forever, right? So now you're there and you've done this and you said, hey, no pressure.

And you get to the point of the close. You're like, I'm going to give you this offer. How do you present that? And then let's review maybe one of the more common objections that people are going to say that maybe not just be price, right? Cause, or maybe we address price because that's typically, Oh, I want more money in that. Right. And then let's kind of go through that presentation and then objecting to price or maybe a more common, you know. I love that you asked about that because nobody asks me that. And the truth of the matter is, this is kind of why our stuff is so different. When we get to the close and we get to presentation, our selling's over. In the process, we use, it's done. All the sales takes place before that with the questioning strategy, finding out what their motivation is, how whatever that problem is

that they're dealing with or whatever they want is impacting them on more of a personal level, like financially or relationships or family members or how they spend their time or what they stress about. Right. I mean, so just to pause you there, one of the best questions I tell my guys, and you may or may not have this in training, but what is it going to cost you not to sell me the home? By having this home, what does it cost you outside? You know, what is it costing your relationships? You're, you know, cause a lot of people are, they want to move cause they need to be closer to their children or whatever. So what is that costing you? And it opens up sore wounds a lot of times. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? The thing is a lot of times people, they've never had this conversation. They've never been asked face to face like that. So oftentimes, I mean, I think that's an awesome question, Justin. I'm glad you

teach it because oftentimes when you go after it like that, people are forced to think about it for the first time. How is this affecting me? And it does open up all kinds of things. You know, I got to deal with this and I'm tired of this and I hate how this feels. And they actually verbalize it oftentimes for the first time in their life. And that's one of the steps of getting, you know, increasing that motivation and the urgency to take action. Absolutely.

Yeah, there's no doubt. And so I love the idea that the selling is kind of done, but when you do come across someone who basically just doesn't like the number, let's address that. How do you, how many times do you go back in terms of, so you give me a number and I say, dude, I'm not, I'm not going to sell it for 215 grand. Yeah. How would you kind of overcome that? So first thing I do again is I'm going to go back to relieve any sales pressure. So I'm going to, I'm going to give them the no. So, Hey, I totally understand. I get it. And then I'm going to get back into selling and to get

back into selling. I'm going to say, Hey, you know, Chuck, now that it's over, can I ask you a question? So now I'm back into selling without it feeling like I'm selling. Uh, and then I know there's, there's two types of value, right? There's money value, and then there's other things that we all find valuable, right? Some of us value time. Some of us value relationships. We all value different things. So at this point, I need to figure out, hey, if my offer is not going up, what else is this person going to assign value to?

And if I can bring that to the table, he may accept my monetary offer plus whatever this value is, right? So to get into that, I'll ask a question like this. So in your example, I'd say, hey, now that it's over, can I ask you a question? 215 is your number. If you took even a dollar less than 215, why would you? Just a little bit, right? Well, if you could, or if somebody helped me with this, or if I had this lined up, and I'm starting to uncover little tiny things that I can assign value to.

Say, well, obviously you're not gonna take 50K less for that, but if it was 5,000 less, would that even be worth considering? And then we would just start stacking all the value, and that's how I'm gonna go after the sale at that point. Yeah, and it's funny, because you and I are both in the educational mentor space. And so internet marketing is a very big thing where that is, that's how they, that's how they sell is stacking the value. Literally there's a stack, they call it a stack and you go through,

Oh, this is, you know, nine 97 or this is, and you're going to get all this stuff. Right. And in our world, you know, 997. Oh, this is and you're gonna get all this stuff, right? And in our world, you know the real estate investing space You're doing the very same thing But you're you just have to peel the onion a little bit lower and a little bit slower when people just Straight up just reject it, right? Right because like you said it's a huge decision. So In this industry almost more than any other man They've got to come up with that stack on their own.

They've got to realize all this stuff that's important to them on their own. You just guide them with your questions. If you just say this is important, this is important, this is important, they're going to reject it for a couple of reasons. One being something called psychological reactance. It's just humans have a tendency to push back, right? When we're told to do something, when something's demanded of us, we push back. We see it in toddlers and two-year-olds. We see it in teenagers, but it's part of human nature that really never goes away. So we can't tell people we have to ask. But man, I love your stuff. I love where you're going with this. I think you're

spot on. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I mean, you know, again, I think you've done a great job positioning. I mean, you, everyone raves about what you do and how you train, how you teach. And in fact, I'm, I'm probably showing up with my guys when we go into April, just so I want to see what you're doing. Right. I mean, my guys are just tired of hearing me over and over. And, you know, even if you and I said the same thing at this point, because it's you, not me, it'll almost translate different in their head. Right. Um, and so let's just go one more rebuttal, right? If they are just steadfast, like I want, you just gave me a $215,000 offer and I want to 25 and then you did what you just said and say, okay, now that's over. Let me ask you if you were to take a dollar less, and then they give you the answer. Where do you go? Like, do you have any kind of hard closes to say, you know, like the Colombo close or any of those kind of strategies where you say. I've got a couple of different strategies. I'm not big on hard closing for a few reasons. One being a lot of the data now that we look at doesn't suggest,

but really proves that the more, if you don't set it up right, the more times you try to close, the less likely you are. So again, I'm going to go just a different way of trying to get them to assign value. Number one, one reason why they might not close is because they think they're leaving money on the table. So if it's 215, they want 225. One, you know, I'll give you two things. One thing I might do is, you know, if you're going to give up any more money, you got to have something in return. So I'd probably say something like, listen, if you could close guaranteed in 14 days, I can go to, you know, 216, 275 and a quarter, right? But I'm going to think a lot about that number. It does a couple of things, right? It shows them that they have to give something to get something. So this is a real number that

starts to show them that, all right, they're not just, there's not, he doesn't have this pocket full of money, just giving it out little by little. The other thing it does is when you negotiate with an odd number like that, it feels like that odd number comes from somewhere, right? If you go to 205, 210, 215, why would they stop at 215? They're going to say, bring on 220 and then 225, right? So you got some negotiation tactics there. Another thing I'll do is just, I'll lay the value problem at their feet and I'll make them solve it. I'll say something like, listen, I know it's not what you want, but we buy a dozen or so of these houses every single week. And it usually is a little less than what people want, but at the end of the day, they still decide to do business with us.

They decide that it's worth taking a little less to sell to us. And then they're happy with what they did, and they usually give us referrals and send more people our way. Why in the world do you think they do that? And I give them the problem. And what I'm looking for at that point is I'm waiting for them to figure it out themselves. If they say anything that I like, if they go, I guess it's because they don't have to hassle with the realtor and this and that. And I'll go, yeah. And then I'm going to take it away and see if they assign any value to it and go but you know what it doesn't sound like that's important to you and i'm going to do a couple

of those fishing for uh fishing for them to push back remember that natural human tendency to push back until they say something like no that is important yeah not important enough to take a dollar less than 215 i'm gonna i'm just gonna keep whittling away at them i mean it's a it's a process man we go hard at it um, but we we make sure we get every one of those dollars and you got to address every fear and use every tactic you know in psychology and behavioral economics and Negotiating and all that fun stuff. No, I love that dude And again, you know, I could have had a series of podcast episodes with you and to have you kind of teach

and so I just wanted everyone to kind of open their heads, understand who you are and the value you provide. And I want to be able to help, you know, them find you. So if they can find you, where do you want my loyal listeners to, where should they go? Yeah, just our website's cool. Midwestrev.com. That's Midwest R-E-V as in revenue.com. And you can find, we put out a ton of free trainings. You can get them on the website. We've got a YouTube channel by the same name. Probably have 40 or so little mini trainings like we just went through on there.

So we give a ton of stuff away. More than welcome to find it through either of those two areas, YouTube or our website. That's awesome. And your next bootcamp, which I'm sending my team to, in fact, I'll probably just show up, sit in the back of the room is what, April 23rd, 24th? Yeah. April 23rd, 24th in St. Louis. Right on, dude. Is there anything you want to leave my guys? Now, again, most of my listeners, my loyal listeners, real estate investors, some are just getting started. Some want to get started. Some are already crushing it and making plenty of money. What would be, if I asked you, what's your one

piece of advice in terms of sales, negotiating, persuading, question-based selling, consultant-based selling? What's your one give? Yeah. I mean, the biggest piece of advice I could give, and this has been most impactful in my sales career, so this is why I'm giving it. The way you want to, too often when we talk about sales and I'm doing sales training, we look at the people we're buying from as kind of alien. Like I don't understand what they do, why they're doing the things they do, why they lie to me or they don't answer my questions. The biggest thing is put yourself in their shoes.

If you can start to think about how you buy, right? You walk onto a car lot, salesman walks up to you and says, what can I do for you? What are you going to say? You're going to say, I'm just looking. Why do you say that? When you start to figure out those questions, instead of looking at the people you're selling to as, I can't, I don't understand them. Look at the way you buy.

Hey, when a salesperson comes up to me, why do I push them off and say, just looking? When you start to figure that stuff out out you become a sales expert almost overnight so don't look at your prospects as weird people they make the same decisions you do they act the same way you do and as soon as you start looking at how you buy then your world will change love it dude love it that's exactly what we need man what hey listen I know you're incredibly busy. I really appreciate you spending some time with me. Thanks for having me on. And our guys, I really appreciate that. Again, midwestrevenuegroup.com. My man is the leader in this

space for real estate investing. So I really appreciate it, John. Thank you. I appreciate being on. All right. Talk to you later. Peace.