The Science of Flipping - Episode 157: Ever Disagree with a Partner?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Colby. Yo, yo, what's up, what's up, everybody? This is Justin Colby, and this is another episode of the Science of Flipping podcast. If this is the first time you have heard me or have seen me, whether you're listening to it on iTunes, you're watching it live on the Science of Flipping Academy Facebook group, maybe you're watching this on YouTube. Not sure what medium you're seeing or listening to this, but if you want continued advice, knowledge, wisdom, training, just help in general, make sure you're going and joining the Science of Flipping Academy Facebook group. It's private, but for those of you listening to my podcast,

Starting point is 00:00:59 watching my podcast, I invite you over there. Simply ask to join. Fill out a very quick questionnaire and we will allow you in. It's all about real estate investing. It's all about wholesaling. It's all about rehabbing. It's all about creating your real estate investing business the way that you want it. Regardless of your income or your ability to spend on marketing, it is free advice. I try to chime in several times a week and I know a lot of our mastermind members and so on also chime in. So if you are just listening to me or watching me for the first time ever, go to the Science of Flipping Facebook Academy group and join. Ask to join, fill out a very quick questionnaire and we will let you in

Starting point is 00:01:44 and you'll get all the goodies for absolutely free. It doesn't cost anything to join. So with that said, um, what I wanted to do and talk about today is not quite a system, uh, to build your business, but not quite a, uh, you know, organization strategy to systemize your business. But really what I want to be able to do here is I want to be able to, and I'm cracking up right now because my Frenchie just grabbed my shoe and is going ham on it.

Starting point is 00:02:14 Bentley, no, is just going after it. And it's a $200 Adidas shoe. Okay, partner. Appreciate you. You guys want to meet my little Frenchie? I know we're live. Say what's up to the peeps. You gonna say what's up? It's out of Bentley. Yeah? That's my guy. It's Bentley. All right, tiger. Calm down on my shoes. They're expensive.

Starting point is 00:02:38 All right, so I'm back. Anyways, if this is your first time, this specific episode is not going to be quite as normal meeting. Usually I'll try to give you the systems, the tools, the processes to implement in your business, to execute in your business. This is a little different. This is a little off topic, but as not, if not more valuable, especially for those that have business partners or partners in a general sense, right? And that is, do you ever disagree? I can tell you, me and my business partner, we started doing this in 2007, Flipping Homes here in Phoenix. It's now 2019, November 27, 2019 is when I'm recording this and going live in Facebook. I can tell you, we have had a large amount of disagreements. And one of the things I try to do is document, you know, how have I been

Starting point is 00:03:35 able to progress through those challenging moments. And the reason why it's challenging is because, first of all, I'm not always right. And that's hard to admit. And then he's not always right. And so, you know, when you have two alpha males having a conversation, hopefully it's a conversation, but we don't agree with what is happening. That's where it can get a little sticky. Right. And so what I try to do and why I want to bring this up now is because many of you have business partnerships. I know, you know, I have a handful of personal clients, some of them in this group. I work with them one-on-one and when one of them, I actually had a call with this morning and they have a business partnership, very similar to mine in that sense. And so, you know, this will go out

Starting point is 00:04:17 to them and many other people that are in this group that have business partnerships. And so one of the things, my first piece of advice is this. First of all, remain calm. If you don't agree with the decision that was made or a point that is being made, the first thing that needs to happen is for you guys to have a meeting. Okay. Sit down and put your heads together. Now, each side should take this type of strategy going into that meeting. Remain calm, remain patient, and open-minded. Do not try to interject. Do not try to prove them wrong. Do not try to prove your point when the other side is speaking. So this could be over a very serious issue where you potentially are going to lose a lot of money or make a lot of money, which is both very serious issues.

Starting point is 00:05:12 It also could be not quite as serious, like what color envelope should we use for our direct mail marketing? Either way, in a disagreement, you really got to approach it with patience and an open mind. Because here's one thing I always try to do when I'm in these conversations is I'm always trying to find out what my business partner is saying that is valid. That I actually can find some wisdom in, some knowledge in, some agreement in, right? That is my perspective to the point where I will potentially have like a notebook. As you guys see, I have a notebook and I go through and have all these notes. I potentially will have it in front of me to write down what he is saying. And then I'll tell him what I'm doing. Hey dude, I just want to make sure I get your point here. Let me, I'm, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:00 from time to time, I'm going to write down some notes. That's all I'm doing. And let him know that. Then let him know I'm listening. Let him know I'm actively listening. Let him know that I'm not 100% just saying he's a stupid person. I'm saying there's likely some wisdom in there. There's likely some good ideas. There's likely something that I can agree with, even though maybe as a whole, I don't agree with his point, his thought or his idea. So that is the first thing you want to be able to do is don't try to, you know, have like a bantering conversation, allow one person to go first, right? So for example, if I disagreed with a decision he made, or if I disagree with the point he's making about a decision, I'll say, hey, let's have a quick meeting. Let's talk about this further. And then I will say, hey, I'm not sure I fully agree with your point, or I'm not sure I fully agreed with

Starting point is 00:06:58 your decision. Can you elaborate on it or tell me further why you made that decision. And then I need to shut up. I need to give him respect to not try to prove him wrong, to not try to over, you know, come over top of him and tell him that was bad or I don't agree. Just let him give you further detail on the thought, the idea, the actions he took, the decisions he made. Because if you do that, it allows him to feel respected. And if that other side of that conversation at very minimum feels respected, the conversation simply goes smoother. What happens is when two alpha males, let me say this, more commonly what happens when two alpha males get in a disagreement, it becomes an argument, a fight, if you will. And I do my very best not to do that. So again, this is about how I position these kind of

Starting point is 00:07:53 conversations. So I ask him to further go into this. I don't want to be the stereotypical alpha male, button heads, you're wrong, I'm right,ah, blah, blah. And then he says the same thing. It gets you nowhere. So I always do my best to allow him to go in further detail. Then when it is my turn to talk, if I do have my notepad in front of me, great. I probably wrote down some notes of things that I thought were of value that he did right, that the point he was making was correct. But then I might have written down like, what about this? Whatever that is, like, did he think of this? Those are the questions I'm then going to bring up

Starting point is 00:08:37 when it's my turn to talk. I will first do my very best to either remember or look down on my notebook about the things he said right, that I agree with, that have commonality. I'll say, hey, dude, I totally agree. We need to send mail out on the first. I absolutely agree that it should go out every single week. All that I actually really think is totally right. You're totally right there. Here's where maybe I disagree and or I have further questions. Did you make a decision to go yellow envelope that costs an extra four cents per envelope because you thought it was going to have better open rate or because what?

Starting point is 00:09:15 Why did you make that decision? Then I'll ask a question, right? To further figure out why he made the decision or if it's just an idea or a concept, then I'll further dive into why I actually believe the other point to be right. So in the example, why I believe white envelopes would be better than yellow. So I'm not going to tell him, well, I don't agree with your yellow envelopes. I think white's the right way. Yeah, but then he's going to say, well, I think yellow. And then I'm going to say, well, I think yellow. And then I'm going to say white. And then it becomes this bantering back and forth disagreement.

Starting point is 00:09:50 So what I do is I try to pose a question. Hey, is there, you know, why did you end up using the yellow? What was the point there? What was your reasoning for it? What do you think the end results might be? And then again, I need to shut up, give him respect to be able to answer this. And by the way, this could happen with a guy girl relationship. Another client of mine are in this group in our mastermind. They're a husband and wife, right? So this isn't just guy to guy. This could just be a respectful employee, boss mentality, partnership mentality. It doesn't matter. This is just disagreements in general. So I don't want to like segregate just the business owners, but in large part, that's what I'm talking to. So I asked that question so I can further understand, but also make

Starting point is 00:10:36 sure I level the playing field for why I believe my points are going to be more accurate, right? So when he gives the example of why he used yellow envelopes, and then I say, well, let me give you the reasons why I actually think the white envelopes are going to be better. One, two, three, et cetera. Saves us four cents per envelope. We're sending out 40,000 mail pieces. That saves us this much money that a percentage of open ratio and callback ratio based on the data I've looked at, looked at, we're right around 0.25 of 1%. It's never really been up or down regardless of direct mail, regardless of the envelope, regardless of postcard, regardless of message. We basically stay the same. So for my point,

Starting point is 00:11:17 I actually think we stick with the white because it'll save us 4 cents per mail piece. And when we're sending out 40,000, that's a good amount of money. That's how I would disagree with them. That is how I would then try to prove my point. That is why I will then have that conversation. Because again, I need to be able to come up with all of the facts, all of the data that I can present to say why my opinion is the right opinion. By the way, let's be very clear. These are all just opinions. Until there are a certain amount of facts behind it,

Starting point is 00:11:55 which a lot of times these disagreements don't have a history that you can look back to to create and draw facts from, a lot of times is simply opinion. And when it's opinion versus opinion, that he said, she said, it oftentimes goes nowhere. That's why this point is so valuable. If you can take your opinion and support it with some level of facts, content, data, whatever, it validates your opinion further. And if your other side does not have any defensive facts, data, research to prove you wrong,

Starting point is 00:12:42 then your opinion, more often than not, will be the one that both of you will choose. That you will both be like, okay, do you see after I laid all that out, we've never had a callback ratio higher, regardless of it being yellow, white postcard, you know, first class bulk, we stay at this quarter of 1% callback ratio. So why would we spend more money? Well, maybe hopefully we can get a better return. Well, and then you ask a further question. Well, in this case, if we're sending out 40,000, how much better of a return do you believe it will get? I believe it'll get this much return. Well, out of that much more of a return, does it move our needle? Do we get one, two, three more deals based around your thinking? Because again, a lot of times there's not data to support it in these disagreements. Make sense? So the first thing you do, point

Starting point is 00:13:37 number one, if you're writing notes, if you're listening to this, is you got to be patient and be open-minded. Allow them to speak their entire point. Let them give you all of their reasoning. Then you get to ask questions, right? So that's point number two. Point number two is instead of telling them why they're wrong, instead of saying why you're right. Point number two is you ask them questions to further feel out, to understand why they have the idea, the thought, or made the decision they did. If those questions start to run out and the answers start to be the same, then you get to prove your point, speak your point on why you think your opinion, by the way, again, opinion is the right opinion, the valid opinion, the opinion that should we that you should move

Starting point is 00:14:34 forward with, right. And so I say all that to simply say, those two major points are what I believe more business partnerships do not take account for, and they turn into big fights, blowouts, ugly fights that go too far. And it's because they're not patient with each other. They don't listen enough. And then they just want to feel right and prove themselves right, make them feel better, and not really take an account of the other person. More often than not, there's always value in the disagreeing side. So if I say, again, sticking to my white envelope example, hey, we're going to send out white envelopes, 40,000.

Starting point is 00:15:20 We do it every month. We're sticking to white envelopes. And my business partner says we should do yellow, then I need to listen to him because I might not agree with his opinion, but I want to find out why he thinks that. What proof does he have? Does he have any data to support himself? What in there is a value that I want to pull out? Because every disagreement, one side has some level of value. It may not be a lot. They may not make a bunch of good points, but there's a point or two in there that you can peel out and say, okay, I support that.

Starting point is 00:15:53 I understand that. That is actually a good point. But beyond that point, I tend to disagree with the remaining, the rest of it. And if you can do these, now that's three things, right? So listen, you know, pull out. So listen, be patient and listen, pull out the good points. And then instead of proving them wrong, ask why, why, why data research, anything to support yourself. Okay. Well, without that, I still believe white envelopes are going to be the right idea. It saves us money. It won't move our needle. The more calls that come in,

Starting point is 00:16:31 because we still would need an extra a hundred calls to get one deal, et cetera. And that won't work based around the data you've given me. And that's how you have a constructive conversation in a disagreement. So, you know, you can disagree agreeably, right? That's an easy way of saying it. Having a disagreement doesn't mean it has to be disagreeable, meaning you can very nicely, kindly, respectfully have a disagreement. And it could be over something fucking huge, right? This doesn't have to be like something as small as my direct mail, you know, example. It can be really big. The same three concepts apply. Be patient, listen, pull out the positives that you agree with, you support, you understand. And then part three, go in, ask them further questions, get support from them, dive a little deeper on the things that they're believing, their opinion on why. Then you're able to say why you don't agree with it and lay out your opinion. your best to have data, research, historical data, like whatever it is to support yourself,

Starting point is 00:17:46 that point will then be the mutually accepted point because the other side simply isn't going to have the data, the research, the stuff that needs to show proof, they won't have it. So that's really important. Again, you know, I'm speaking more to business partnerships because I have several clients that are partners. It's top of mind right now. But honestly, this also goes down to employees and boss. If you have an acquisition manager, if you have a lead manager, if you have other people that you are a boss of, the same conversation needs to happen. Unfortunately, and this potentially could just be a whole other episode, but I'll keep it here is because you're the boss, you tend to do the whole, because I said so reasoning. And I just disagree with that. I believe firmly, you still got to go back to what I just talked about. Bring them in your office, be patient and listen to them. Find out what they're saying that

Starting point is 00:18:43 you actually support, that you believe is right, that you feel is a good point. Then you ask them further questions to dive further if they have any supporting data, if they have any reasoning for this opinion. Then you try to give your point with supporting data. If you do the four things I talked about, your disagreements will go more smoothly and you will continue to show respect to the other side. What happens in the boss employee mentality is the boss says, I'm the boss, fuck off. That's not the right way to do it, right? It's kind of that joking, kind of joking, but not that whole parent disagreement with the child because I said so, right? Where parents, why do I have to eat with the child because I said so, right? Where parents, why do I have to eat my vegetables? Because I said so, right? Got it. You're the

Starting point is 00:19:30 parent. They're the child. You're the employee. You're the boss. They're the employee. With that said, showing them the respect to listen to them, ask them further questions, then prove your point with data to show them why you're right, not just because you're the boss. It will be a mutually respectful conversation that will help you retain your employees longer. If you do this, you will go farther. We are live. We are on Facebook. We do this hopefully every week. I can get out a podcast. Sometimes it's twice a week. Sometimes it's once every other week. I try to do a minimum for a month. I'll tell you, we can

Starting point is 00:20:08 start engaging. Get over here to the Facebook group, Science of Flipping Academy Facebook group. Get engaged. We're going to go live. I'm going to start answering your questions right now. I hope to see you guys and have you guys continue to be engaged. That's it for me on this

Starting point is 00:20:24 episode. We out of here. Peace.

The Science of Flipping - Episode 157: Ever Disagree with a Partner?

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