The Science of Flipping - Episode 175: The Flipper Who Loves Wholesalers And Why / DIY

Episode Date: November 27, 2020

So what kind of relationship should fix and flippers have with wholesalers? Most of the time, the relationship can be mutually beneficial, but you have to build trust with each other. Here's how one flipper has been able to build solid relationships with wholesalers and why she does it!

Welcome to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Colby. Justin Colby. What is up, everybody? Welcome back to the Science of Flipping Podcast. As always, I am your host, and this podcast is all about real estate investing, the best tools, strategies, systems in your business to launch, grow, and scale your business. And I have an incredible special guest. She is an absolute baller here in the Phoenix market, Mrs. Tracy Royce. How are you? Hey guys, I'm doing excellent, my man. It's good to connect with you and be on here. I'm on my way to job sites, but I always have time for you. So thank you for having me on.

I am so excited for you to be here. And you know, one of the things that we always see each other at the, well, when there were meetup groups and you would come to mine or we'd be at a mutual meetup group, which was great. But now, you know, we're doing deals together, which is fantastic. And I definitely- Finally, yeah. Finally, right? And I want to highlight that, but I also want to get to know, you've been in this space for quite some time and why I love that you are taking time out of your busy schedule. And I appreciate you for that. But I just, I'm a firm believer

and supporter of females in this space. And I don't think they get enough credit. I don't think they get enough shine. I don't think, because in my opinion, my humble opinion about this, if females had the ability to have a little thicker skin, have a little bit more salesmanship about them, they don't need to be some Grant Cardone salesy. They would like eliminate men in the space. That's how good you women are in this space. And I just, so I'm a big champion of women. You yourself have been doing successfully in this space for so long. So I'm so thankful that you're actually here and sharing some wisdom with

my followers here at the science of flipping. Cause I really do want to empower all women to be able to crush it for sure. Yeah, man, that's, um, you know, I know that we were going to start off with a different topic, but I have, I have yet to hear one podcast or one person say exactly how you just put it. And I really appreciate that. And sometimes, frankly, I'm hesitant because I don't want to have a continuation of the dialogue of a male dominated industry, because I think putting that into the, the ecosphere constantly, it just regurgitates the same thing, which is I think a mental and confidence block that most women have

to get started in this industry. So I rather change the perspective and actually not make it about like, Hey, you know, here's a woman doing it versus a man, because no one ever said, well, Tracy, you're female, so it's illegal to do this. So what cause could there be otherwise, Justin, that women don't do this? And in my mind, there isn't one, right? I think purveying other women do something that isn't usual, though, helps other women to say, oh, well, if she's doing it, I can do it. Or if they're doing it together as a couple, maybe I should be more involved in what I'm doing. So I appreciate you highlighting that.

And I think, you know, if I can help with that as well, then so be it, you know, because I really don't think that there's any good reason why more women shouldn't be doing this. And I will say when I do post things, I try to highlight the fact that yes, you do have to show up a little bit differently there. I have, I definitely have two different sides when I'm in business mode, I'm in business mode and that's different. Personal life is much different. So you bringing that up, I, I, I appreciate that because it is something that needs to be recognized. And I think it's something that women might grapple with a little bit. Yeah. And again, we can do several shows about this, right? This topic is big. And like I said,

I'm a big champion for women to be in the space because the women that I know in the space are doing amazing financially, right? They're running very successful businesses. They got different things going on. They're buying portfolios, they're flipping homes, very similar to yourself, right? And so, and that's what I wanted to bring you on initially for is I want to talk about what you're doing. And, you know, like I mentioned, you know, you just bought a wholesale deal for me last month. It's probably been a minute, but a couple of months, a month or two. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, which is great. And finally, right. We finally did a deal together and it made sense for you and you did a beautiful job remodeling it and you sent me photos. And for those of you want to see what it is, they can follow you on Instagram, right? You put that on Instagram.

I did. Yeah. What's your handle on Instagram? Uh, Royce of real estate. Same thing on most socials. It's the one where, uh, cabinets went from old and ugly to white and green. And I did a DIY on those and refinish them and, uh, did a little makeover on the, on the kitchen. I love it. And it came out beautiful when you sold it for a profit. Yeah, of course. That's usually, that's usually what I am for, you know? That's right. Well, you know, cause that actually was a good rental too. And we discussed that as you were buying, you're like, oh, do I keep it? Do I rehab it? Do I sell it? And obviously it was a good profitable sell for you. And so that was your exit strategy. And I think that's the topic that we can kind of go on is because there are opportunities. I find there's

four pillars in this space, right? So as a coach, right? And I coach a lot of investors on how to get into the space, but also how to grow your business within the space. There's four pillars. You have marketing, which is getting the deal, which buying from wholesalers is absolutely a strategy for marketing, right?

Which is what I want to talk about. There's conversion, which is sales, converting the deal, whether you're direct from wholesaler or direct from seller, et cetera. You have KPIs, understanding your metrics, how many offers do I need to make? How many leads need to come through, et cetera, et cetera. And then you have exit strategy. Those are the four exit strategy. Just as we talked about, you looked at the deal, you talked to me about it. You said, ah, I like it as a flip, but I really like it as a portfolio play and keep it in my rental. What do I do? Right. And so you made the right decision for your business. Right. A lot of times that, that paralyzes individuals from actually pulling

the trigger on the deal. Right. And so knowing what is your exit strategy is really important. So in this, your marketing strategy was to go through a wholesaler. So my question to you is why? And then part two is why flip it versus potentially keep it in a portfolio? So as far as deal acquisition, I am unbiased and non-denominational on where they come from, Justin. If your grandma hit me up and wanted to sell me a deal, I'm like, listen, me mom, the numbers are there. Let's do it. Let's do it. I got you. Let's do it. So one of the beautiful things that I really appreciate about what you guys as wholesalers do having come from going seller direct everything and anything except for essentially PPC I did in house. So I can really appreciate the, the ground game that goes into that. And so you

guys having to be on the front end of that and constantly love on these people and follow up with them for sometimes a better part of a year, depending on what sort of distress that they're in and that business cycle, and then converting them and then getting them to the table and then getting them to close. And so when that email or text or phone call or, you know, pigeon signal goes out that, hey, we have a deal that even if I'm not the only person that's getting it, obviously, if it fits my buy box and it seems like there's juice in it, you know, I understand and appreciate how much that goes into that. So if sometimes I have to pay a tiny bit more, I understand what my cost

per acquisition was and my cost per lead was and the bandwidth that it took me to get that deal. So you as wholesalers, I look at it like, man, if you guys did all the legwork and all I have to do is say, yeah, Justin, I'm good. Let's pull the trigger. Man, that frees me up to do what I'm preferring to do, which is the renovation, the resale side of it, and not focus so heavily on the acquisition and overseeing all the channels of marketing to people. Yeah. Well, the next question someone would naturally bring to you is, how do you find the money? Because that's what a lot of people get caught up in, why they love the wholesale space is essentially you don't need that level of money, right? You might need a marketing budget. Yes. But I think I sold it to you for low 100,

somewhere in there. Something like that. Yeah. Right. So, you know, there's a lot of people out there. It's like, okay, Tracy, well, how do you find money? What do you do? Is that a private money? Did you use hard money? So tell me a little bit about the, how you structured the purchase of that specific property. Yeah. So on that one, Justin, I think we used hard. Yeah, we used hard. I used hard money and I think you and I closed in a few days. It was super quick. It had to be really fast because the seller was like, that was the only way I was able to get the deal is to basically negotiate a very fast closing. Exactly. No. And I can appreciate that as well. So to that end, why I bring that part of it up is it depends if I have private money lenders that they need a week to close because maybe it's coming out of a self-directed IRA or something like that. There's the cost of liquidity. Right. So and also depending on the product, I normally am in and out, like from the day that I close on the A to B side to the day that it resales, I'm normally in and out within four months. So even if I have to pay a tiny bit more than, you know, and I can make a phone call and it's just done, there's again, an opportunity cost

for that, for that, you know, there's a premium for that. So I use hard money. I use private money. I use my own funds. Sometimes I'm getting more and more away from that. I have been the last couple of years. I always stress to people, if you're asking about where to find the money, I'm going to make the assumption wrongfully most of the time that you have something under contract. It normally, and you probably see this quite a bit too, like, hey man, where do I find the money? Oh, where are you at with the deal? Well, I don't have a deal. I'm just wondering how the money is going to come. It's like, why are you naming your baby before you're pregnant? You know, it's a great analogy. I love it. So if you buy something at a right price and get it under contract, if you make a few phone calls, I promise you the money will find you. Okay. Whether that's

hard money, a family member, um, you know, someone like you that they see on socials, that's like, Hey, maybe if it's even not specifically you or me, do you know someone that could fund this deal? And oftentimes we're great channels to say, well, I might be a buyer for that. Um, a buyer. And I'm going to tell you, I just did a training for my YouTube channel. Um, which is straight training. It wasn't for podcasts necessarily, but about financing and bringing in equity partners versus debt partners, right? So debt is just an interest rate. It's a hard money loan. It's just debt. They get none of the profit. Well, you call me or you call Tracy and say, Hey, I have this property. You want to partner on it, come in

with the money. And for the newbies, like I, it's also a learning process too, right? Like, fine, I'll come in, I'll fund it. We're going to split profits in this scenario. Let's just use 50, 50 to make it easy on everybody. But now they're also going to learn from my process, my team, how I do it, how I run it. So that is not a bad play. Now I tell you a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't want, that's too much, you know, profit to give away or whatever. Well, right. I mean, listen, people, you know, they don't want to, but at the end of the day, there's so many reasons again, go to my YouTube at Justin Colby and watch the actual training. But the reality is it helps you move faster, further, faster, and it, it widens your ability to do more deals. Right. So if I can do a deal

with Tracy and let's just use us, if I can do a deal with Tracy and let's just use us, if I can do a deal with Tracy, Hey, Tracy, let's just partner on this deal. You acquire it. I'm going to go acquire this one. I'll do a 50, 50 split with you on this deal. And then I'm going to go do a deal over here where maybe I make a hundred percent. Right. Two deals versus one. Right. Totally. And so it allows you to grow and et cetera. But, um, I don't know how I just got down that rabbit hole, but it's a real thing. Yeah. And to piggyback off of that, a lot of times when newbies are asking, well, where do I get started and what do you, they're not asking,

what do I get good at? But I encourage them to get good at a couple of different things, finding great deals. So marketing, regardless of what channel of real estate you decide is your best fit, excuse me, you are in the marketing business, the solution finding business and the marketing business. And we forget that, you know, we forget that unless we have a pipeline going on, we have no business. I am not a flipper. You're not a wholesaler.

You're not doing anything unless you have a pipeline of deals that are coming in because some of them fall out, some of them take longer, some of them have liens that we can't get rid of that pop up at the last minute. I mean, there's always something happening. So I encourage people, if you want to become a flipper and build up to that, to where you're utilizing more of your own capital, which, you know, I don't think is necessary, which I know is not necessary, you have to be good at marketing. And then I also tell people, if you become good at wholesaling, you can do these other channels because then you breed in that I have to constantly be looking for deals, learning to

negotiate with sellers, looking at contracts, disposition, and some sort of capacity. And that is a skill set that is transmutable to anything in real estate. But a lot of times folks just want to say, well, how do I get, how do I get flips? How do I do this? Well, honey, look at, look at X, Y, Z before you're jumping into this, because if you get this one skillset, it's going to follow you the rest of your real estate career and pay off in dividends. No doubt. There's no doubt about that. And that's where, so let's kind of move into more of your business model because you are licensed as well. I understand you're not a licensed listing realtor and you run around with clients all day. I get it. But that could play into some level of your business model, right? 100%. you don't have certain costs. And then I do want to get to why you decided, well, let me take a step back. Let's go with continuing on that condo that you bought from me. Why you decided to flip

it versus keep it in your portfolio? Frankly, it just came down to the yield and the amount of time that it would take to get my investment back. And for what I typically require, it just didn't make enough sense. It made sense. It just didn't make enough sense. It made sense. It just didn't make enough sense. Do you have an underwriting threshold for something you'd say, okay, this makes, where was that threshold? Would you be able to say, if I can get this type of rental return, then I'm just going to keep it regardless of what I could do on the flip or vice versa.

Is there like a bottom line flip return that you, you have to make sure you're over or under, right? Do you have, what's your threshold there? Yeah. And that's still a case by case basis. That's a great question. So I sincerely, I'm so out of sight, out of mind. I don't remember the specific specifics of that deal, but typically, you know, if I can get a higher cash on cash return by buying something, even if it's hard money, so we can take it down super quickly, remodel it. Essentially the BRRRR method that's become on trend. It's so funny because you and I have been in the Phoenix market for long enough towards like, we were probably BRRRRing before. I know

I was BRRRRing before it was a thing, but essentially what is on trend known as the BRRRR method now, which is buy, renovate, refinance it, get renters in there and then repeat the process. So refinancing out of the hard money, typically depending on the loan officer is four to six months. And then, you know, your cash on cash return becomes nearly infinite because you're hopefully buying enough below market to where you're getting the majority of your funds back on, on the properties where that isn't as possible because the spread isn't big enough or the renovation costs are that much more, it's like I understand that that threshold is probably more normal than not. The BRRRR method is as sexy as it is, sometimes the execution of it and super competitive markets is a little bit more challenging. For sure.

So normally I like to get all of my money back under 24 months. Cash on cash return, again, I'm pretty spoiled with. And then if I can make at least a hundred bucks a door net, net, net, net, after everything's said and done, then that's normally where I sit. That's great. So let's leave it there because to your point, there's some variance in what people or nuance, we should say, in what's acceptable. For you, what I heard was in 24 months, you want whatever money you still have left in there after you've refied out with the bank or et cetera, you want that back in your pocket within 24 months. So that's point number one, correct? Plus, and I don't think I said this, at least 25% equity. So 75%. Which is where the banks lend, right? And so that's what most people need to know for sure. Banks typically won't go over 75% of value, right? So ARV, look at ARV, and then 75%, that's the biggest loan you're going to get. And then there's a little thing

that people don't talk about a lot is what type of fees or points that the banks might have that you might still be out two, three, four, five grand into the deal, even though they technically got all your equity out because of their fees and points, there might be a small handful of dollars that are remained in the deal, which is why to your point, if you can get that three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine grand based around their fees and whatever back to you within 24 months and part two, you are net, net, net, triple netting in your pocket after all expenses, taxes, fees, insurance, you name it a hundred dollars a month. And that's a good rental for you. Yeah. A hundred bucks a door. So if it's a three bedroom house, at least $300. Oh, a door. Okay. So when I say a door,

I mean a rental door, not like an address. Gotcha. You're saying a door bedroom. Per bedroom essentially. Yep. Fair enough. I'm glad we just. Yeah, I know a little bit of a difference there. Yeah. Okay, great. So that's a great preface, um, into what people should be looking at. I, like you said, if you're just getting started, I think wholesaling is your only option. Go get some money in your bank account, go get some money, go, go take your wife or husband out to some dinners, like get that rolling. Um, you know, before you kind of get in the burn method, especially in competitive markets like Phoenix. Well, and two, just real quickly before you kind of get in the burn method, especially in competitive markets like Phoenix.

Well, and two, just real quickly, a lot of people ask, well, how, how should I get deals or how do you get deals in the difference of like how I get deals or how you get deals or how any other wholesalers get deals? What I really stress to people is the best marketing method. Justin is going to be the one that you are good at and that you follow through with on a consistent, ongoing, measurable basis. Okay, I know myself to, I'm sort of an introvert, you know, so I'm probably not the glad hander

at the party that that's where I get all my deals from, you know, and I'm okay with that. I'm perfectly fine with that. So what methodology is going to work with me that I enjoy as much as you can enjoy marketing and data and research and implementation of, you know, whatever. So direct mail worked really well for me. It worked really well.

Yeah. So that's something that I enjoy. Now to say, well, you should go do direct mail isn't necessarily the end all be all. There's always an asterisk behind, well, it's contingent. It's contingent on the data. It's contingent on how many times you're following up. It's contingent on, are you doing anything else outside of direct mail to follow up with them? How is your copy? What stamps are you using? How old is the data? There's a lot of of things that go into that, that make it the best marketing method for you. But I always try to

bring it back to, well, your personality or your budget or your threshold to, can you wait six months until you close a deal? Because in all probability, that's about typically speaking, that's what it's going to be. And if it costs you a thousand dollars to get there and you get a deal that pays you $10,000 for a wholesale fee, great. I consider that a win. If it costs you $10,000 and you make $10,000, probably not a win unless you build a pipeline in the meantime. That's right. And that's the key is what you just said is something we need to highlight because will I still do a deal that if it costs me $10,000 to make 10 grand? Yes. Because the idea is your market was so consistent. You

have three other deals closing or those, you know, in the works that then are the cherry on top for the profitability of the model. Right. People don't, you know, people will listen to me or see others. And, and, you know, I was a part of that for some time. I want to grow and scale and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you know, listen, I love that. And I'm about teaching you how to do that, but do it right. Grow your pocketbook. Don't grow your operation. Right. And there's ways to do that. And it's really, really important. That's, you know, and that's a mistake that I made that I've been, you know, fairly transparent in public about is I, I did scale to the point where I thought adding more bodies to the mix

would be exponential in terms of marketing and closings. And that was not the case. And my overhead got, you know, way too out of hand. And so things had to change drastically. And so now I've pivoted to something again, that works for me and for the volume level and the financially how it, you know, plays best for what I want in my business. So again, you know, sometimes being teachers, coaches, whatever, being in the market for long enough, being around long enough, it's here's sometimes the best way to do things, but also learn from our mistakes. Here's what not to do. Yeah. I think one of those would just be Harry Carey about marketing because you saw it on Instagram or there's a bandit sign. And so you think that that's the end all be all be, be religious about what you're doing

with your dollars and make them, you know, make it work for you and measure it. Well, the way I like to say it is stay small, keep it all right. So I myself went through that transition where I had, you know, with our, we had 12 cold callers in house in office, plus another eight person staff. So my, plus the office costs plus, plus, plus, I mean, it was just, you would do this incredible, you know, you'd make a ton of money and you just look at your bottom line and be like, where the hell is the money? And that's why I now have reframed how I educate on how to grow because it's not about growing your operation. It's about growing

your income. Yeah. There's a right way to do that. Right. And stay small, keep it all can really help you grow. Doesn't mean I'm not encouraging people to open up at the markets and things of that nature. You just need to do it right. There's a way to do it versus just like hiring. Right. Totally. I've never heard.

I mean, I've heard it put a different way, but I'm, I'm going to recycle your phrase. So take it. And so let's kind of wrap up in the sense of you are licensed. A lot of people ask me, I get a lot of those questions. Should I get my real estate license? So why did you, or let's rephrase that because you've been licensed for a while, but like, what would you advise when someone asks that? How do you leverage your license or not leverage your license? What's the pros and cons to it? The pro is, and again, all of this has to be prefaced with, it depends. I don't think it necessarily hurts you in any capacity to go through the exercise of having gone through school,

maybe even getting your license. Mine is now inactive, but that's a very mindful choice after having it active for years and using it in a capacity to where it was able to be implemented and implied and solely to distressed sellers. Okay. So short sales were where it was at. And a lot of agents had to learn to do distressed property simply because if you didn't, you just weren't doing anything in the marketplace. That happened to be my background and the guys that I was working with at the time, it just made sense for me to have my license and, you know, work with everything that we had going on in the pipeline and that capacity. That being said, I never tried to be like, hey, I'm going to find you your perfect first house like that. God bless buyer's agents because I do not have the

capacity or the patience for that. As far as listing, I did that for a long agents. Cause I do not have the capacity or the patience for that. As far as listing, I did that for a long time, but because what I do now is just fixing and flipping, I don't list my own properties anymore. It's just for me, not necessarily worth it. Okay. I still have to just close anything and everything, but in terms of being a licensed agent and finding deals, you're still able to do that. You can certainly save money on the buy side and the sell side if you have your license. So if you're doing, let's say you're closing a couple of houses a month as a normal agent, 12 deals a year, 10 to 12 deals a year, which is still above average, and you happen to buy one or two flips a year or buy one

or two rentals, I think in those scenarios, I would absolutely keep your license and use that monthly income to cover your, you know, hopefully your business expenses, if not subsidize your living expenses as well. If you are a full-time fix and flipper and that's all you do and you're doing any sort of volume, you just might want to talk to an attorney about what that means like liability wise. And if that, the cost of having your license and the advantage of having your license is worth keeping it in the capacity to where you're still listing your own properties and using it to save money. Does that make, does that make sense? It totally does. And so what I always, cause I'm not licensed, my manager, Anthony, which I'm sure you're familiar with is, is, so we have both best of both worlds, right? Because technically it's me and my company making the offer. I don't have to say anything about being a licensed realtor.

I have friends, mutual friends in our space that are licensed realtors. And they do very, very well because there's an inherent trust that goes along with a license. They are the professionals. And so I can make an argument both ways. And so for me, just as easier to play and walk the gray line, not be an agent. And we can do things a little bit more creative without being in jeopardy of losing a license or having some board review how we're transacting. We do everything legal, but there's definitely like a certain set of rules you got to, you know, follow as a realtor. So that's my opinion. But I do see the avenue of making more money. You know, I'll give a good example. Anthony has a friend looking for a home for him and his wife, the price point, he's going to make a $15,000 commission.

Yeah. He does that a couple of times a year, maybe like that's great extra income to have. It is. Yeah. And I, and I, I've always encouraged agents that are full-time agents. And then, you know, I'm sure you get the DMS too. Hey, I want to be an investor. So I'm going to get my license. And what does that look like? So we're talking about two different things. One of which is I'm a full-time agent, but I kind of want to do investments, whatever that means to you and whatever capacity. I think that that's a fantastic business model. If you can even buy one house a year, one house a year as an investment. It's not money that you're going to use. You're not, you know, if you had savings or, you know, you were going to use that money otherwise spend two of your closings or three of your closings, whatever it is in your market to

save up enough money for down payment and then buy a rental. Okay. Do that one time every 10, you know, for 10 to 12 years, that's your retirement. But if you're transacting as an agent, even if you're quote unquote killing it, whatever that means, let's just say six figures a year. And at the end of a decade, you have a huge mortgage and a Tesla and debt to show for it. You're not doing something right because you were exposed to so much more inventory that maybe even people like you and I are not. And if you're in front of a ton of homeowners and you're telling me there's not one in your, you know, 10 in your entire career over a decade that said, yeah, I know I can list it. I don't want to, I rather just have someone pay cash for this house. Well, if I can pay cash

for that house, would you be willing to sell it to me at this price? Here's all the information about listing it. Full disclosure, you'd make more money if you list it, but I don't want to. So I'm advocating for the fact of if you're an agent and you can set up a business model as your retirement or cash flow to support your lifestyle, if not your retirement, you absolutely should. In fact, I think you're doing something wrong if you're not. If you are getting your license because you think that that's the natural place to start to become an investor, save the thousand bucks and go spend, you know, $5 on eBay or a library

card or spend your nights and weekends on bigger pockets or watching Instagram, you know, podcasts like, you know, our friends and us that we, I feel like give a ton of information and just start somewhere. But there, there is no right or wrong. I'm sorry to go off on a little bit of a tangent there, but we could go on. I mean, we just have so much, I mean, we can go off on, we can do this every week and just have these great conversations. So listen, I think they're kind of going and circling all the way back and closing the gap. Like I do believe, well, before I get there, you also, the condo you did, you did a DYI, you did it yourself, right? So talk to me a little bit about that as we kind

of close up this episode about why you do that. Is it more of a passion project for you? Is do the profitability of it? Because you're like, Hey, I'll save a couple of dollars. What's the reasoning behind DYI? Thank you for asking. Yeah. That's a great question. Not having a background in construction management and having work behind the scenes for other investors for so long, but not being on the construction side of it, there had to be a way that I could learn more, not to say that you need to know everything, but more and enough such that when things come up, I'm part of the solution and not part of, well, I guess that's how it's done. And how do I know what looks right versus, okay, this is this price point of a condo and this doesn't justify doing X, Y, Z. So the DIY really

came from, it keeps me on job sites. It teaches me things that otherwise, you know, I might not have known. It gives me a little bit more hands-on. It is fun. You know, it's definitely not a passion thing. It's, I'm not good at a lot of stuff, Justin, a lot of stuff. Like I make no qualms when I talk to people about this, like you don't want me hanging drywall. I have no business doing electric or plumbing. Like you're going to flush a toilet and like the lights go off. Like you don't want me touching that stuff. But I do want to encourage, you know, beginners or flip, uh, you know, lady flippers that there, there's a ton of stuff that you can do. That's benign for lack of a better word, um, that you can jump in. And also, you know, I think part of my secret sauce to be a hundred percent transparent is when my guys

see me working that hard, it brings a new level of like, we need to get shit done too because of, excuse my language, if this bitch is out here working this hard, we're going to too. And it's a really great feeling. And a lot of the guys I've worked with for years, so they know how hard I work, you know, and they know if I ask them questions, it's because I want to learn so we can all meld together even better.

And so I know on the next one, like, hey, to ask these questions. So the ladies out there that are thinking about flipping, if you have to wash windows or clean or do a DIY cabinet resurfacing, don't be afraid to dig in. You know, there's a ton of information on YouTube, but I find if you find the right contractors too,

learning from them goes a long way. Yeah, I mean, I love everything you just said. Another whole topic we could go off on a tangent about. Um, but I think one of the tangents I would say is you're being a leader, right? Leaders don't point and say, go get it. Leaders are out in front of the charge doing it. And then people are following them. So for you to be on site, for you to be working, for you to be doing it, for you to be on site, for you to be working, for you to be doing it, for you to be there early, for you to be there, that's leading. This is a big subject for me because I don't believe people, people think they are good leaders. I don't believe they have the leadership skillset. They just think that of themselves, right? And, or they actually are really good leaders innately and they don't realize what they're doing. So they don't have a way to replicate that leadership, right?

And so this is a big, big subject for me that I'm passionate about, but that's what you're doing. And I think it's great and I applaud you for it. That's, I mean, that will continue to lead your charge, your contractors, your team, everyone will love you more for it. They'll see what you're doing. So keep that up, girl.

Thank you. And that, you know, and I always try to say too, Justin, like that might not work for everyone. There are certainly people out there that probably are better at, yeah. I don't even put in light bulbs. I'm out. It's a hard no for me. Yeah. I do enjoy some of that stuff, but there's certainly times where I'm like, what the hell am I doing out here right now? I should just, you know, defer this a little bit more, but yeah. So, I mean, I have no qualms about saying I'm not high volume, you know? So it's one of those things where it works for me right now. And it has for a while. You know, if I get over the point where I'm doing more than a dozen projects a year, yeah, I have no, I have no

business doing that. That's it. Well, good. Well, listen, tell everywhere, everyone where to find you. I think you mentioned it on social media and anything else that you maybe like to mention as we wrap up. Yeah. So if you guys want to connect, otherwise I do a ton of behind the scenes on my renovations. I've tried to up my meme game a little bit lately too, to keep things a little bit more entertaining, but all of my socials are at Royce of real estate. Royce of Real Estate. Well, thank you so much, girl. I really appreciate you coming on.

Much empowerment to all women. And we're going to continue our conversations about what we've talked about because I think you have something really special for newbies, for women's, flippers, do-it-yourself people. You have a lot of resources that people could leverage.

And so hopefully we can help more. Thank you for giving me the opportunity and having this platform to share. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Talk to you guys later.