The Science of Flipping - Episode 84: Ask The Expert Joe Mccall | Real Estate Investing Podcast

Episode Date: February 3, 2017

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Welcome to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Colby. What is up, everybody? Welcome back to the Science of Flipping and we have something special for you today. This is going to be my first Ask the Expert episode and I brought my man Joe McCall with me. He is gracing us with his presence. So this is the Ask the Expert episodes. I will be doing this weekly if not periodically so you guys can get a taste of what all my friends who have been doing this for a very, very long time are experts at, how they run their businesses. And you can hear from someone besides myself, Justin Colby.

So Joe McCall, how are you, buddy? Justin, I'm doing awesome, man. Thanks for having me on the show. Man, my pleasure. Thank you for sharing your time. I know you have multiple businesses that you run and you're very, very busy. So for you to be able to cut out some time in your schedule to be with me and our loyal listeners here at The Science of Flipping, I greatly appreciate it, man. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's good to be on the show, Justin. You have a great podcast and I enjoy listening to it. Right on, right on. Well, let me tell everyone a little bit about you. You and I have known each

other now since what, 2009 or 2010, I want to say. Yeah, it's been a while. Being a part of a mastermind and obviously being in kind of the circuit, so to speak, if you will. Yeah. And so it's been quite a while. And one thing I've always been really impressed with is how you've built your life, right? Is you really have kind of set out by design to create a life that you can spend time with your wife and your kids, and I know traveling is such a big part of your life, but you also have a very successful

real estate investing business, and it's, I don't wanna say it's unique by any terms, but relative to what traditional wholesaling would be, I think a lot of people, especially my listeners, probably would be very interested to hear a lot more about how you've set up your lease option business and how you get those deals done. Because quite honestly, we probably do five to ten of them a year total, where I know this is a major part of your business, correct? Yeah, so I started doing lease options in 2008. Okay. Well, I started doing them wrong in 2007 and started flipping lease options in 2009.

And within about three months, I was working as an engineer building. I was in civil engineering, but I was working for an electrical contractor building power plants. And I was doing scheduling and controls. And I was making more money flipping lease options in my part-time, doing that part-time flipping lease options than I was in my full-time job. And I had a really good job. I was making about $85,000 a year. And I knew that I was onto something, right? And this is when the market was at its worst, right? Everybody was running to the hills. And so I started flipping lease options

because I just found it was easier than all the other deals I was trying to do. It was easier than wholesaling. It was easier. I used to do a lot of subject twos. I thought it was easier to negotiate lease options than it was subject twos. And definitely it was every rehab that I've ever done, I've lost money on. So I'm not a rehab expert. So I just found they

were the easiest deals to do. And I started flipping lease options full time in 2009. So give everyone a brief synopsis. What is a lease option? I know for you and me, it's self-explanatory, but for those of you that are listening, and I don't talk a great deal about them, but I want you to open everyone's eyes to what it is and why it's such a great vehicle for us real estate investors to be using. Oh, my pleasure. A lease option is basically where you lease a property for a period of time with an option to buy it in the future. And there's different ways to call it, rent to own, lease purchase. Generally, they're all kind of the same thing with minor differences.

But you rent a property for a period of time with the right to buy it in the future. It could be one year, five years. So you can control property without owning property. And the reason I love them is because they're a lot less risky, in my opinion. You don't have to use any of your own money or credit. And it's a great way to, once you can control the property, there's multiple different exit strategies. You can keep it or you can flip it. You might be able to, well, I don't want to go into all the details, but there's a lot of different ways to make money with lease options.

I found they're just easier. I can give the seller whatever price they want. I still do regular wholesaling as well. Most wholesalers out there are trying to get properties at $0.60, $0.70 on the dollar. All the competition out there is sending postcards to the same lists and they're trying to get these huge discounts. Well, with the lease option, I don't have to get those big discounts, right? And many times I can just give the seller whatever price they want as long as they're willing to wait for it. So I'm not good at talking to sellers or

negotiating deals. I don't like doing that. It's uncomfortable for me. So with lease options, I just find it's easier. I don't have to negotiate. I don't have to go look at the house. I can do them virtually. I find they're easier to do virtually, right? So when we're traveling around, it's easier to do deals over the phone. Got it. And I can get people on the ground that can help me sell them. And once you get a property under contract, under lease option contract, they're way easier to find tenant buyers for, in my opinion. As long as you've got houses in the median price range and the rents are competitive.

It's not uncommon where I put some signs out on the weekend, some Craigslist ads, and I get literally 100, 200 applications or phone calls from potential tenant buyers looking for a house like that. You know what I'm saying? I do. And so to dig a little deeper, the two pieces of paperwork, or tell us about the paperwork that's involved on your acquisition, when you're leasing and optioning the property. And then one step further, what is the type of paperwork when you're possibly selling that property or wholesaling the property? And then one step further, what is the type of paperwork when you're

possibly selling that property or wholesaling that property? Yeah. So I use a one-page contract. I call it a short offer form just to get the property under contract. It gives me equitable interest in the property. I approach every deal as if I'm going to stay in the middle. I'm actually going to buy it. And then I may choose to sell my interest or stay in the middle. It doesn't matter, but I have that choice. You make your money when you buy, right? It's important.

Every time you buy a deal or get a property under contract, you have multiple exit strategies. That's what I love about lease options. It gives me different options. I use a one-page contract that's a lease and an option combined on one piece of paper. Very nice. It's like a letter of intent almost, but I don't want to say it ties up the property because it doesn't. I use a flex option. So I let the seller – this is why it's so easy to negotiate.

I can just tell them, listen, if you change your mind or rent the house or sell it before I do, you can just cancel my contract at any time. Now, I lose some deals because of that, but I also gain more deals because of that. That's why I like having a flex option. I can never be accused of tying up the property, taking it off the market where the seller couldn't sell it or rent it on their own otherwise. I get it. Then once I find a tenant buyer, I have an attorney that helps me with this. I draft some new paperwork. And at that point, I have a separate lease and a separate option agreement with the tenant buyers. And I do some new paperwork with the seller. But once you've done a couple hundred of them, it becomes really, really easy. And when I explain this to students,

too, I'm like, oh, it's easy. Just do this and this. And I understand when the first time you hear it, you're like, what? It doesn't make any sense. So I'll break it down in step by step. But it is actually really easy. It's not complicated at all. Yeah. And again, we do, I don't know, I think we did maybe like nine last year.

So I'm familiar enough with it, right? But I know you do hundreds, like you said, hundreds of these. So really important to understand. One of the questions that brings up, do you typically just take an assignment fee in the middle of that where you find your buyer, they get a new lease, they get a new option and you assign your lease and your option over? Yeah. So when I'm flipping the lease option, or I call it wholesaling lease option or lease option assignment, I get under contract with the seller and I'm the tenant buyer. All right. I have a contract with them. Yep. And then I will turn around and I'll mark

up the price a little bit and I'll advertise it for a tenant buyer. Now, if I'm going to, if I don't want to stay in the middle, I'll sell my contract, my A to B contract. I'll sell that contract to the tenant buyer for an assignment fee. And that's usually $5,000 to $10,000. I have students and friends in different parts of the country, depending on where you live. They will not do a deal where they make less than $10,000. And they'll tell the seller right up front, listen, the way this is going to work is I'm going to make 10 grand assignment fee on this deal. And you don't have a problem with that, right? And they'll just totally up front

and honest, tell them the seller what they're going to make. So when I find a tenant buyer, I'll sell my contract to that tenant buyer, make five, 10 grand. Sometimes I'll even set up a note, Justin, where I maybe want to get seven grand, but they only have five. So I'll collect five up front and then collect payments over the next one to two years for the difference to the tenant buyer. Now, when I stay in the middle, those are even bigger deals because I only need about 10% to 15% equity in the deal if I'm going to stay in the middle. So I'll tell the seller many times i'll give you the same equity you get if you sold with the realtor and uh they'll many times they'll say

that's fair okay and then i'll so i make i make a spread in the equity and in the cash flow yep so i'll make them an offer at maybe 85 to 90 cents on the dollar today for today's value yeah and then i'll i'll give them like if the rents are $1,500 a month, I will make them an offer for $1,100 a month. Okay. And I'll call it my perfect tenant program where I'm going to stay in the middle and be the tenant buyer.

So during the three to five years that I have, I'm making about $300 to $400 a month in cash flow. And I'm making that equity. Now I have 15% at at the beginning but then i mark the price up the house appreciates so in five years you know i've got a lot more equity in the house absolutely and you could make 40 50 60 grand with these things if so on sandwich lease option where i am the tenant buyer because i'm staying in the middle the whole time and I'm subleasing it out to another tenant buyer. You're making cash now, cash flow, and cash later.

So that's another beautiful thing about it. So I didn't have to go get a mortgage. I'm not taking over the mortgage. And I pass on the responsibilities of maintenance and repairs to the tenant buyer. Does that make sense? It sure does. And because there's such a high demand for these homes, I can sell them really quickly. I can get really good people in there. And so there's just, I love it. I think it's a great strategy, especially, Justin, for students that are in competitive markets, expensive markets.

And all these wholesalers are throwing away these leads that don't have enough equity. And maybe a lease option might be a good fit for them. And if you know how to do it, you can get it under a contract to lease option and then flip or sell that contract to a tenant buyer. What is your pitch, I guess is the best way I would explain it, to the seller? What is your – who are you, right? So you're going to present it how. Hey, this is what we do. This is our solutions to a lot of people looking to sell. Yeah. So I guess I always started

off with questions, you know, like I'll just say, tell me your situation. What are you trying to do here? What would you like to see happen? And I'm totally, I like asking those open-ended questions just to see what's going on. I mean you can only do this with sellers who at least have some motivation on them. So if they transferred, job transfer, divorce, they don't want to be a landlord, but they can't sell their house. So I ask them, I say, what are you going to do if you can't sell the house? Are you going to rent it out? And they'll say, well, yeah, maybe i'll probably have to rent it out and i say well would you rather would you rather rent it to somebody who's gonna buy it or somebody who's

gonna call you every time the faucet leaks you know because if you rent it to a buyer they'll fix the faucet right if you rent it to a tenant you're going to be a long distance landlord so would you wouldn't you rather rent it to somebody who wants to buy it in the future and so then i always make the first offer will be where I'm going to stay in the middle. And I'll just say, well, listen, I'm looking for an investment property in the area. I never sell the lease option concept. Because I used to do that when I was first getting started. And now I sound like a cart salesman and I'd made it sound so good to be like, what's the catch? This sounds like a scam. It sounds good to be true. So I stepped back from that, stopped doing

that. And I just started saying – by asking questions. I don't know if this will work for you or not. I play almost like the reluctant buyer. I'm looking for a house that maybe I can rent for a few years and then buy. That probably wouldn't interest you at all, would it? So I'll let them know I'm looking for an investment property that I can lease, and I'll be the tenant buyer for the property. I'll be responsible for the maintenance and repairs and the vacancies.

They know it's an investment so I'm not going to be living in it. Right. Sometimes I'll even in my ads or my postcards I'll say a company looking for executive rentals to lease on a long term basis. They know I'm a company that's looking for nicer homes that I can lease on a long-term basis and sublease out. So I'll make them an offer, and my offer is really simple. It's 15% – my offer is 85% of today's market value. As is.

So that's about the same equity they would get – yeah, as is. It's the same equity they'd get if they sold with a realtor. Yeah. is the same equity they'd get if they sold with a realtor. And my rent to them, my commitment to them over the next three to five years will be usually about $300 to $400 less than the market rent today. Which is really what, if you look at all the costs involved with property management, it's about the same as what they would walk away with if they had a property manager. Absolutely. But the property manager won't guarantee the rents, right? The property manager won't take

care of the maintenance and repairs. And so that's what I do in exchange for this. And so if they say no to that, I say, all right, well, I can get you whatever price you want. What price do you need? If you're willing to do lease option, I can still help you. And they say, well, you know, house is worth 150, I owe 145. I have to have 145. I say, okay, I can get that for you. And the market rents are $1,200 a month and their payments are like $1,100 a month. So I can still help them. Other wholesalers just throw those leads away, but I can still give them an option, lease option with those numbers. That's not a deal I want to stay in the middle of because there's not enough equity. There's not enough cash flow. Yeah. So I'll just sell that contract to a tenant buyer and be out of the deal.

Do you have any earnest money down or do you have any, you know, because the option and or the lease, what do you have to come to the plate with? So whenever I get a property under contract, I don't put more than $100 in my contract because you have to have consideration for a contract to be valid. Right. Right. So I'll do $10, sometimes a hundred bucks. If it's a really sweet lease option deal, like in a great area. And by the way, I don't do this on cheap properties. I do this in median priced homes. Right. So like Phoenix area, medium price is maybe 220, 220,000. Yeah. So I only want to do this for homes between $150,000 and $350,000. Maybe like $200,000 to $300,000 or something. Because you don't want to deal with the cheaper rentals because nobody wants to buy those homes. You don't want to rent those out to a tenant buyer who's, once they do get approved for a mortgage, they don't want to buy that property. They want

to buy something else. So anyway, when you focus on just the median price, nice homes, nice areas, it makes everything so much easier. You get better tenant buyers. You get more profit on those deals. So does that answer your question? Yeah, the down payment, anything out of pocket. So you're just doing the $100? Yeah, so that's why. If you were going to just wholesale it, you knew you were not going to stay in the middle,

how long does your $100 window give you? Do you have like a two-week ability like a wholesaler would where you have an inspection period? I usually do 30 to 60 days. 36. Sometimes I'll do 60 to 90 days because remember,

my contract is non-exclusive so they can still advertise it on their own. Yep. So if they rent it or sell it before I do, they can cancel it and move on. So sometimes I'll do 60 days, 90 days. But I'm always very up clear and upfront with them. I mean, I tell them exactly what's going on and I give them the choice. That's, you know, I give them the choice. It doesn't matter to me. I'll make, I'll still make money on this. So it just kind of,

I like the flexibility of being able to flip these things really quickly. It works in hot markets and cold markets, flat markets. Lease options have been around for a long, long time, Justin. People were doing them way back, well, I don't know,

but they were doing them way back in the 80s. They were in the 80s. I know for sure. 80s for sure was a big thing. I'm sure they were doing that before then in the 80s. They were in the 80s. I know for sure. 80s for sure. It was a big thing. I'm sure they were doing that before then too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, and the best part for you, because of your lifestyle, you get to do it remotely, right?

I mean, I remember when we were in a mastermind, you were talking about how you were driving the bus and you were driving the RV around the country or something like that with your family. And you got an awkward $40,000 deal as you're driving a bus. I'm like, yeah, you into it? Well, I have four kids. My wife and I, we homeschool our kids. Okay. And so we've twice with our four kids have been to Europe for three months and just living in Prague and traveling around Europe because And, uh, cause we homeschool, which, which allows us

to do that. And then last year or two years ago, we went on a three month RV trip around the Northwestern corner of the U S and, uh, during that RV trip, I was doing more regular wholesaling. But on the, on the two Prague trips, um, one last year and then one three or four years before that, um, we were doing almost exclusively lease options. And the cool thing was, is I had VAs that were getting them under contract for me. And so now, and this is part of the automated virtual business lifestyle. I just made a list of everything that needs to be done in a wholesaling deal and a lease option deal or whatever. And I just said, how can I do none of this?

I started with that, right? How can I do none of this? I don't want to do any of it. So I got an assistant to do the marketing. I got another assistant to prescreen the leads. And then I found a local wholesaler that would partner with me, be my boots on the ground. I used to have an acquisitions manager, but I still found that was too much work. I was still too involved. So I just decided to start partnering with other investors that are already doing deals. And now I partner with people who

are doing lease option deals. I partner with people who are doing wholesaling. And I literally do nothing. I don't do any of the work. I have somebody else do the marketing, somebody else pre-screen the leads, somebody else meets with the seller and sells them. Sometimes I use realtors to sell the properties. And I split the deals with my partners 50-50. Everything gets managed with our CRM. We use Podio. Everything gets managed at that. And I love it. It helps to have good people on your team. Of course. And so you're doing direct mail, you know, I love it. It helps to have good people on your team. Of course. And so you're doing direct mail. You're doing – I mean you're doing traditional type of marketing I would assume.

Yeah, I do more Craigslist than most investors. In other words, we will go out and contact landlords and FSBOs on Craigslist and Zillow and ask them, hey, do you want to at least purchase your house? But, yeah, we do a lot of direct mail. Again, when you look at any market where all the investors are sending direct mail, most of them are sending them to the lower end homes. And so when I'm targeting my direct mail, it is, well, I'll just tell you real quick, I go to Trulia heat maps. If you go to Trulia and look up heat maps, I look at my county and it'll tell you there's a table there that you can sort all of the zip codes by popularity. When somebody goes to Zillow or Trulia, what are the most sought-after zip codes? I start with those most sought-after zip codes, and I look for which one of the top 20

are in the median price range, let's say. Those are the zip codes I target, and I have a lot less competition on those deals. So one of the most competitive lists in regular wholesaling are the absentee owners list, right? Of course. It used to be when we were first getting started in the business, that was like the best list to mail to. Now it's like the most competitive list, the lowest response rates, you know. It'll come back around. I know it will. But when I'm doing lease option marketing, I can still mail to the absentee owner lists in those particular zip codes because they're not getting a lot of mail from other

investors right now. Right. But we also target expireds is another favorite list of mine. I like to mail to the rentals on Zillow. Believe it or not, the rentals on Zillow, look it, they're vacant right now. They don't need any work. They're nice homes. You can just have a simple conversation. They cost you no money.

Hey, you look into lease option your property. Take someone who will stay in the home, rent the home, and have the option to buy. Which one do you want? Someone who's going to complain all the time or someone who will do their own work because they potentially own it? Well, most of those rentals on Zillow, they tried to sell them at one time.

It's amazing too. You go look and you'll find a lot of those rentals on Zillow, depending on the market you're in, are not listed as absentee owners yet in the county records. So they're not getting any mail. And so when they get our letters, it's the first letter they've ever gotten from an investor. And a lot of them want to sell and then they can't. So they're not getting any mail. And so when they get our letters, it's the first letter they've ever gotten from an investor. And a lot of them want to sell and then they can't, so they're renting it out. And when they hear us, they're like, wow, this is awesome. Now, I do have my realtor's license. If I didn't have my license, I would be mailing to older listings on the MLS. There's a lot of properties, and I know some friends that are doing this, that shall remain nameless, but they will send letters and brochures to older listed properties. And they'll never encourage the homeowner to cancel the listing agreement with the realtor.

But a lot of these people, they want to sell their house. It's vacant. They can't because they can't drop the price. So lease option is the best alternative for them. And they'll still work it out where they will encourage the homeowner to work out and negotiate a new commission agreement with the realtor. And maybe the realtor will get one month's rent when the tenant buyer is placed and then the rest of their commission if and when the tenant buyer buys the home in a couple years. But that's a fantastic list. If you're not licensed, just go into the MLS and mail the homeowners of all the properties that have been on the market for over 120 days, 180 days. I hope I don't get in trouble for saying that. I don't think you will.

I mean I'm not a realtor myself, and this is a world that's kind of a dog-eat-dog world. If a realtor can't get a home sold, then that's the realtor's issue. If we're viable buyers as investors, the homeowner's got to legitimately take into consideration that. The problem is if you were to call the agent up and say, hey, can I make a lease option offer? Would your client be open to a lease option? Nine times out of nine, they're going to say, hey, can I make a lease option offer? Would your client be open to a lease option? Nine times out of nine, they're going to say no, forget it, go buzz off. So sending a letter. Now, I say this kind of tongue-in-cheek because you will get calls from realtors saying, what are you doing?

They'll get all freaked out and flipped out. They say, oh, you know what, I'm so sorry. Just ignore it. My bad. I'm sorry. Just apologize and move on. I send thousands of. Just ignore it. My bad. I'm sorry. Just apologize and move on. Say, I send thousands of these letters every month. So again, man, I know friends that are – that's all they mail to, Justin.

They just mail to listed properties. Is their message different? Would it be a different message than I would say where I say, hey, I'm looking to buy your house cash, close quick? They probably have a different – And I would say where I say, hey, I'm looking to buy your house cash, close quick. Well, they're sending – this person in particular I know is sending a brochure, and I don't like it. I don't like sending brochures. But it's a brochure that talks about the benefits of lease options, of lease purchasing. And that's – he doesn't get very many calls. He only sells – he only sends those brochures to homes that are within a 30-minute drive around his house.

He doesn't want to drive longer than 30 minutes. And he's not doing a ton of deals, but he's making anywhere from $5,000 to $15,000, an average of $10,000 on these houses. And he does three or four a month. It's pretty good. And I'll tell you one more thing. If you are a realtor, I just interviewed somebody on my podcast. They're making about 30 grand a month right now as a realtor, finding the tenant buyers first and then finding a home for them. And just like with regular wholesaling, my favorite way to do wholesaling and the favorite way to teach it, I think the fastest way to a deal is you find the cash buyers first, right? And then you go find what they want. Well, it's the same with lease options. And I only encourage people to do this if you are in fact licensed. I think you need to

be licensed to do this. But you find the tenant buyers first, get them in your office, find out which ones have a decent down payment, option money, who are close 6 to 12, 18 months away from getting a mortgage, and find out what they can afford, and then go find a house for them. And you can charge the tenant buyer some money up front as a fee for this service, and then also get 3% commission from the deal. So it's – yeah, this guy's doing really, really well. And, and so if, if, and I'm not doing that strategy right now, but if I was more of a traditional realtor,

that's definitely what I would be doing. He has no, this guy has no problems at all finding the tenant buyers. He's doing about 15 of these a month. Honestly, He actually told me 17 to 20 a month. Wow. Yeah. Marketing for people who are looking to be tenant buyers. He's marketing for tenant buyers. I've done this before too with signs and Facebook ads, Craigslist ads. Finding tenant buyers is super, super easy. There's a lot of them out there. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, listen, you mentioned something. I'm going to wrap this up here, guys. This has been Joe McCall on the Ask the Expert, but you mentioned that you also have a podcast, which I'm well aware of,

called The Real Estate Investing Mastery, correct? Same on iTunes. That's where everyone can go. Go to iTunes. Go to Real Estate Invest estate investing mastery to find mr joe mccall uh what website would you like to refer people to yeah real estate investing mastery.com got it uh we're also on stitcher and soundcloud google play um whatever we're all over um even if you have an android you can listen to our podcast with any of the podcast apps my favorite is the uh it's called pocket casts okay and uh even though I have an iPhone, I don't like the iTunes podcast app. So anyway, I use this app called Pocket Casts. You just go on there and you do a search for Real Estate Investing Mastery. You'll see our show. And of course, you can

listen to Stitcher or SoundCloud. but it's kind of i've been doing the podcast since 2011 nice so that's uh six years now can you believe that rocking uh it's been it's been a great wild ride we have uh hundreds of podcast interviews you know what i have here soon i don't have it with me um pretty soon within the next one to two months from when we're recording this justin oh, hold on. Do you know, do you recognize this guy marketing in your car? Russell Brunson? Oh yeah.

Yeah, of course. I, I'm going to be, I'm, I'm, I found the, uh, the company that did his free MP3 players. Okay. And, uh, I'm going to be offering a free MP3 player really soon of my first 150 podcast episodes. That is awesome. That you can get, and I'm pretty excited about it. So pretty soon when you go to Real Estate Investing Mastery, you can get a free MP3 player with my first 150 episodes on there.

That is awesome. And they're not even – you can get them on my website, but they're not available anymore on iTunes. And some of my best stuff was from our earlier years. And so that's going to be, I'm excited about that.

I found a company in China that's going to put the logo on them, upload all of the podcasts on there. And it's like a USB memory stick. Yeah. But it's got a USB memory stick. Yeah. But it's got a little display screen on there where you can actually flip through the podcasts and listen to them. That is sick. That is awesome, man.

That is very cool. Very cool. Well, good. Well, Joe, I really appreciate it. I know you've been teaching, gosh, hundreds of students how to do this lease optioning and wholesaling and this whole thing for years now, right? And so, man, again, I probably do five to 10 of these a year. You're doing hundreds. You're the guy that everyone needs to be looking at for lease options, that's for sure. It's fun, man. I get a kick out of it. I do have a course on wholesaling lease options. If you go to wholesalingleaseoptions.com, you'll see my website.

I do webinars once in a while, wholesalingleaseoptions.com. I sell my course for $1,497 on my website. But if you watch my webinar, you'll save about $1,000 if you want to buy my course. So register for the webinar and I'll knock some money off of it for you. That's a pretty good savings, dude.

Pretty good savings. Appreciate it. Yeah, I'm testing different pricing right now. So get it now before I raise my price and start testing the other way up. Amen. Amen. Well, I appreciate you being on here again. I know you're super busy.

So thank you for coming to the Science of Flipping and teaching the loyal listeners how to work some lease options. You are our first ask the expert, man. So this would be going a long run. So congratulations. Thank you. Thank you, man. It was good hanging out with you, Justin. All right. And hopefully you see you again soon. All right, guys. That is it for this episode of Ask the Expert. I'm Justin Colby.

That was Joe McCall. And we will see you on the next episode. Peace.