The Science of Flipping - Episode 89: Mastermind Series with Josh and Mark

Episode Date: February 28, 2017

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Welcome to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Colby. Yo, yo, welcome back to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I am your host, Justin Colby, and I am continuing our series here on the Mastermind series. As you guys will see in here, I have two very, very special guests. They are a part of our Billionaire Boardroom Mastermind. These individuals have built a seven-figure-a-year business right here in Phoenix, Arizona, right in my backyard, right in Sean Terry's backyard, and they are crushing it. And so if this is your first time listening to the podcast, go over to thescienceofflipping.com,

go to the website. I have a book that I sell on Amazon for $10. It is aptly named The Science of Flipping. It is a bestseller on Amazon, but I actually will give it to all of my listeners for absolutely free. So go to thescienceoff of flipping.com, download the e-version. You can print it out. You can read it. Um, I wrote it, uh, with intention, um, to give back, right? The same reasons why I do this podcast. I want you guys to have the processes, the procedures, the tools,

the systems, the fundamentals, the fundamentals to build your business and really create your life by design, right? I want you to not just have a high-paying job, but really a business that you can run while you're there or even traveling. As most of you know, I travel quite a lot. So I'm very intentional on giving you guys the secrets to what it takes to really be successful in this industry. And, you know, the tools and processes and procedures to do so. So I'm doing a mastermind series with some of the best in the industry all over the nation. In this episode, we have Mark and Josh who are right here in Phoenix in our backyard doing big things. So guys, I just want to welcome you to the Science of Living podcast and say what's up, man?

How are you? Good, good. Thanks for having us, brother. My pleasure. You're great. My pleasure. Well, why don't we just kind of start off, you know, people always ask me, like, why do you do the podcast? Why do you do your meetup groups?

You don't get paid necessarily to do these things. And you're giving away your secrets. You're giving away what's made you successful for free. And I think one of the first things I want to talk about with you two specifically is this idea of competition and the idea of abundance, right? And I think so many other investors, from whether they're in small cities, you know, Phoenix is a rather large city. I think it's the fourth or fifth largest in the nation,

if not maybe higher. But maybe they're in small cities or maybe they're in big cities like a Dallas or a Houston or a Miami or a Tampa Bay and they feel like they can't get deals. They want to keep all their deals themselves and their secrets to themselves. I think you guys are a great example of what abundance looks like, about that there's always plenty of deals in our backyard.

No matter where you are, you just have to want it bad enough. Why don't we just start it out with that? Obviously, we're all in Phoenix. Sean is in Phoenix, and we're all doing really well. And what's kind of been your secret to that thought process? Well, I don't know if there's been any real secret. I think it's doing what everybody teaches. We're not doing anything special in terms of marketing.

It's bandit signs, you know, out of the gate it was bandit signs and some small yellow letter campaigns and getting a little bit of a toehold, getting some deals, and then expanding the marketing into some other segments. Yeah, right on. But, yeah, I mean, our thoughts were coming out of the gate. We acknowledge Phoenix is a competitive market. Yeah. But where there's a will, there's a way. You got to grind until you get some momentum. And momentum is a great thing once you get it.

Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, you guys, so talk a little bit about your model here. Everyone knows that I kind of started backwards, right? So I started with fix and flipping, did that for six years, and now I've somewhat transitioned more into wholesaling while continuing to fix and flip. So what are you guys doing here in Phoenix? Yeah, kind of the same. I mean, I think we had background in flipping too. Mark more so than me with the construction background and with building and stuff. But both of us were real heavily into short sales. So from 2009, probably to 2012, 13, we were doing a ton of short sales through our brokerages and then started flipping those.

And so I think that was kind of the big start to flipping, at least for me, for sure. And once we came across the wholesaling thing, we're like, holy smokes, we can make, you know, a lot of times close to the same money or more, um, without even owning the property, taking the risk, you know, all this stuff that goes into the fix and flip. And we still, you know, I think we've got like eight going on right now that we own. Um, we don't really do super heavy fix and flips, but we will, you know, buy them and resell them. So we do prefer to wholesale. But yeah, same type of thing. We kind of backed into it as well. Yeah. So were you guys realtors? Did I hear that correctly? You guys were realtors initially?

Yep. And still are. Neither of us are operating a lot in the retail space. We've got a real retail agent in the office that does, you know, handle that stuff. And Mark's background is more, you know, being a local guy for longer than me. Pretty much everybody I know in Phoenix is already in real estate. So my sphere as far as that sort of retail stuff is it, but yeah, so we kind of have that insight to the market as well, which can be helpful. That's great. So just to stick on that for a quick second, a lot of people will ask me, can I get my license or what if I'm licensed? Am I doing anything incorrectly or how does that jeopardize me? Why don't you let everyone know? Because I'm not licensed.

No one in my company is licensed. We're potentially going to get licensed for a couple of smaller reasons. But how do you guys market? What kind of disclosures do you guys need to do for marketing or for when you're writing a contract and there's no commissions? How is that all set up? Disclose that you're a realtor on everything. First and foremost, contracts, marketing pieces. Marketing pieces, we're not looking to list your home.

We're looking to purchase your home, et cetera, et cetera. It's just disclose, disclose, disclose. Like even on the marketing, maybe a little asterisk at the bottom of the mail piece that says owner of property or owner of company, licensed realtor, something like that. Yeah, best to always disclose everything. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes we're not trying to hide anything. We just happen to be realtors who are investors. Totally. Sure. And sometimes I think that the credibility factor, sometimes it can help that we're licensed. So if it does, you know, we play to that. If it doesn't, then it's just, you know, a piece that, you know, it's obviously disclosed, but it's not really talked about. You know,

if we don't feel if the homegrown experience seems better for them, like, hey, I'm just selling it to this local investor, then we kind of play off that. We're still not hiding anything. We disclose it. We just, we're not going to have some, we're not going to try to build up credibility in ourselves that we're licensed if we don't think that that's a hot button for them. Yeah. Are you guys finding any transitions from your leads? So I'll back up really quickly. I want you to answer this, but then I'm going to kind of go in reverse. When you do get leads,

do you guys find it to be an easy transition if you guys can't make the numbers pencil for your investment business, that it becomes a listing pretty easily? Or is that, how does that run in our business? No, no, it's, you know, not really at all. And as we probably don't do a great job of making that a focus of our business, you know, in terms of what that transition looks like, what that referral looks like. You know, we've referred, you know, a couple, but I mean, it's been super, you know, not our focus at all.

Like I said, when we come at it, we're coming at it as investors. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a cool lead magnet. If the focus of your business is you're trying to build out that retail team, then it's a great lead magnet because you're like, look, we'll make an offer on your house. It's not like I have an investor. I'm going to do this or that with us. I think, though, with the success we've been able to have in wholesaling and the, the acceleration,

I guess, if you will, you know, just, we just haven't focused on that. And, and maybe even to Mark's point, like we should, I mean,

we're probably leaving something on the table there. But yeah, it's, I think if we, if we were to really attack it and when we do attack it, it'll be, you know, kind of a separate funnel with,

with a full-time, you know, real estate licensed person, but it's also a closer that can work that. And then basically it's still a funnel, but I don't think we'd come behind them like, hey, we talked to you about buying your house, but maybe we can do this. It'd be more of all of a sudden they're getting marketed by this real estate company that they're like, you know.

So it's building this super awesome list, but you've got to treat it like that. It's still just a list, I think, from the retail standpoint, it was just hard for us. Initially we thought we'd get all these retail leads, but you know, you offer somebody your wholesale pricing and then they're like, Oh no, that's, you know, the way too low or whatever, you know, cause 90% of the leads are retail. And then you turn the hat around and you're like, well, maybe I can list it. And they're kind of like, okay, well yeah, my brother-in-law is a realtor or whatever. Everyone knows somebody, right? But I feel like at that point. Yep. Yeah.

So backing up into kind of your business model, right? So how are you actively approaching lead gen, right? Where are you getting your leads? What type of marketing are you doing? And then what is your next step? So a lead comes in from whatever you do, and then are you going straight for the wholesale? How are you looking at these leads? So let's start there. Yeah, I'll take the sales part, I guess, and let Matt get the dispositions.

Lead comes in. We do do a fair amount of direct mail, heavy on the yellow letters, also do some postcards. We do Google pay-per-click, and we have it professionally managed. Just getting started with the Facebook paid ads and with the targeting stuff. So have not been yet doing that. Literally just signed up in the last week with a pro company out there. So hopefully expecting big things out of that. Did you end up going with Scott for the Facebook ads?

No, we didn't. Lighthouse marketing or whatever? No, we didn't. We went with a fella out of Utah. His name's Kylie. All right. Sorry, Josh. I didn't mean to take you off.

It came recommended from some wholesalers in some different markets sweet right on yeah so the the yellow letters were you know i think we're probably getting more deals than anything from google pay-per-click right now our adwords we spend a you know pretty big budget in that and we also get a fair amount of deals from from uh from calling you know calling list the same list that we're getting to mail, calling through those. Obviously, that's a little more labor intensive, but we find deals that way as well. Yeah, no doubt. And it's funny because, and I know Sean does a lot of PPC, right? And he also does a lot of mail. I've always, dude, I've had the, whether it's the worst luck of all time history regarding PPC or what, I mean, literally, like, I find it to be a sign from God because I've tried three different companies, all recommended to me by other people who have used them successfully.

Dude, I have literally just pissed money down a toilet. I mean, it was like, I've gotten no leads ever. I've not gotten one single. So last year, it was like no leads ever. I've not gotten one single. So last year I was like, I'm out. I'm sticking to direct mail. I am throwing money away. Literally throwing it away.

I've heard that a lot of times. Who knows? I mean, there's a million reasons for not being able to convert but something or if the leads are just yeah i've heard a ton of people say that and good good good quality closers wholesalers that just they're not just so they're wasting their money but uh yeah we've had some success yeah and so what's your ROI is not as our ROI is not as great in PPC as it is in yellow ladder

um nor band sign nor yeah yeah we have pay-per-click it's our highest cost per lead it's also our highest conversion yeah um but but the um yeah it's it's not our most profitable it's up there it's certainly not not a bad margin either but um yeah and also interesting we were dabbling in the portland market uh last year and we did probably about 10 of our business now probably a little bit less than 10 i think we did the Portland market last year, and we did probably about 10% of our business. No, probably a little bit less than 10%. I think we did six deals last year up in that market. We had pay-per-click turned on up there.

Gosh, I want to say it was for almost six months. We were getting actually a decent lead flow, but it was very different. It was interesting to see the two different dynamics with a market like Phoenix, where we were converting one and six out of our pay-per-click leads. And then in Portland, you know, we were like one in 35. And what we were finding is Portland led the market last year in real estate appreciation. So we're getting people going on, you know, the website, I want to sell my house, whatever, to an investor, and they're expecting, you know, $50,000 more than they ever thought their house would ever be worth in 20 years from now, you know, because all of a sudden they see their neighbor house, whatever. So they're not really motivated sellers. At least that was our take. So we kind of put that on hold, but it was very, you know,

very much different, you know, same acquisitions guys, same process, same everything, same websites, basically, you know, just one for Portland, one for whatever. But yeah, you know, one in six to one in 35, obviously. So that, you know, we've got that on hold, obviously. Well, and that's what I realized even, you know, because Sean and I probably talk every single week about our businesses and whatnot. And he said the same thing. He echoed exactly what you said is it's great because it brings in leads in the convertible really quick, but the cost per lead is so high relative to direct mail.

If you're really looking at your ROI, which we all talked about in Cabo, right? I mean, we were all in Cabo drinking beers, having a good time, but really kind of digging into each other's businesses. And my whole goal, and I was telling you guys this, is like, I'm unwilling to accept an ROI of 30% or less. Like there's no chance that, you know, as the example,

if I'm making a million dollars, there's no chance I'm putting less than $300,000 on my pocket. It just doesn't make sense. And when Sean was telling us his ROI for PPC, I mean, it's way less. It's not even close, right? And so, for me, it looks like, do you go after the lower hanging fruit,

easier converting, quicker, more deals, but you have a less ROI? And there's an argue for both, right? There's always an argument, right? It only takes one PPC deal for you guys that is just monstrous for that whole thing to change around and all of a sudden your ROI is great, right?

That you just go and make 120 grand, you know grand because you flipped it and it just looks great. Yeah, no question. I think it becomes sometimes a factor. What do you want to scale your business to? I guess any individual marketing leg will limit. There's a limit to it locally. There's only so many houses you can mail to. There's only so many corners. It's just adding another piece to maybe increase the lead flow. You may be getting a 6 to 1 out of one marketing thing and a 2.5 to one on something else. But it's still profitable.

It's all lead flow, baby. At the end of the day, we are in marketing and sales, and your whole thing is how many people can you get into this funnel? Get as many people into this funnel, and they will funnel through. Some will be able to be profitable. Some won't. They might go different directions. But get everybody into that funnel.

That's it. And if you're, you know, Sean talks about this, you know, you can do a deal or two a month and it can be life changing. So if you know somebody out there listening right now and they're they're working a job, they're trying to do their first deal or maybe they've done a couple of deals, but they would love to have the idea that they could drop off their kids, go to the gym, do a couple of real estate deals a month, not work the nine to five and work for the man. You know, you can do that and you don't have to spend a ton of money in marketing. There's a couple of ways to do it. You know, if you have the money, you could do something like pay-per-click that's going to be more leverage. You don't have to go through tons of leads to get the deals, but you've got to have a stomach for it.

You know, there's weeks where we're paying upwards of $600 a lead on pay-per-click. Obviously, that's not our average, but some week, it's a lot to stomach. You could also start out by getting the same list, even if you didn't want to mail them, even if you just call those. You do a deal or two a month, even if you make $10,000 per deal, which is significantly less than our average profit per deal that we're running in one of the toughest markets. And that's life changing. I mean, you make 10 or 20 grand, you know, our marketing budgets is insane. So we got to make six figures a month to justify spending that kind of money, taking that kind of risk and building that kind of scale. But, you know, if somebody is not trying to build, you know, a huge organization or doesn't want to

grow a huge team, just wants to make 100 grand,000 a year and kind of own their schedule, what an opportunity in this industry that you can – God bless America, right? How would you tell – talk to the newbie. Talk to the person that doesn't know the first thing. Talk to the person who doesn't have any money, but God, they want to quit their job. What are you going to tell – I mean they hear from me all the time, right? So I've said it, but what would you guys tell that person who maybe works a nine to five? Maybe they have no money. Maybe they don't work, but have no money.

What is your guys' advice for those guys? I'd be calling and I'd be, uh, and I'd be, you know, probably driving for dollars. So that way you're not going to be spending, because you can get a much higher response rate with driving for dollars. I mean, if you go out there and identify, you know, 50 or 100 houses that look like they need remodeled in decent areas where there's, you know, demand, and you mail those, you know, you're probably going to get a couple people reaching back out to you versus if you just pulled some generic list, mail 50 people, you're probably not going to get a single call. Obviously, that's more labor intensive. You might actually handwrite those 50. But I would do stuff like that. And then the biggest

thing would be reinvest a certain percentage into scaling. And that was one of the hardest things for me, getting started with this business and scaling it. I had a handful of deals under my belt, had plugged into Sean's stuff and done some direct mail, done some deals, made some money. But I was like, I did not do a good job of budgeting it and getting that budget building itself. And it wasn't until me and Mark linked together that we really started looking at this as a business. You know, and he bankrolled this in the beginning,

but we quickly gained some momentum and some traction. But, you know, it's just, it's so key. I think Sean talks about a minimum of 15% going back into your marketing. And I mean, our marketing budget just is constantly growing, It's so key. I think Sean talks about a minimum of 15% going back into your marketing. Our marketing budget is constantly growing, whether it's adding another leg of marketing like the Facebook things or whatever, or it's expanding the budgets with what we've already got doing. To the point we were talking about, you do sometimes see the conversion go down as you do more. I don't know. I think me and Mark talk a lot about about when kind of the lifestyle and it's, you know, what what you want.

If you've got the team that can support it, you can just grow. And even if the ROI goes down, as long as it makes sense and your your your hands are on those KPIs so that if there's a market shift, you know, you're you're on top of it. You know, you can you you're on top of it, you know, you can, you can, the sky's the limit, but you know, if you're that one man band and you don't want to have manage, you know, that much cashflow and that many people, um, you don't have to. Yeah. Mark, you have anything to add to that, to the, again, kind of the newbie, maybe working, maybe not working little to no money. Where would you direct them? If, if no, it's probably similar to Josh. i mean i guess little to no money's all all you know uh can be interpreted as a different number i mean i mean you you know bandit signs are in my mind little money and effective you know but uh end of the day you

get out there and you do that stuff you you still got to do the follow-up you got to answer the phone you got to call people back a lot of people go out there and take that first step, right? They'll stick some bandit signs in the ground and get some calls back. And then they're like, now what? Well, now engage them and make an offer. You know, we were coming out of the ground. We threw some bandit signs out there. Actually, we didn't get many out.

We got a couple out. We missed a we missed a hammer we a big deal came through and only 60 70 grand yeah we we just the we had the call set up incorrectly and then we we looked at it and uh it was going to you know we've had a we've we've dropped the ball a bunch you know you make a ton of mistakes in this business growing it um but yeah we had it going to a uh a call fire number that wasn't being forwarded and uh yeah unfortunately we got back to it and followed up and looked on tax records and and saw what what the property sold for oh yeah it was a 60 70 000 mess for us um

if you ever wanted you want to do a fun episode justin you we could do too the biggest mistakes we've made all the money that we've let fall right through our fingers we've got some probably pretty good stories as i'm sure you probably do too there is no doubt there is no doubt um yeah i wrote uh an ebook just not like a normal book but an ebook just about like the 15 most costly mistakes i've made and other investors have made. And I think I might put a new one together now that the climate has kind of changed a little bit. I might put a new one together and start interviewing you guys. What was the two or three biggest, you know, holy shit, I just screwed that pooch decision.

And we all make them, right? No one's immune to them. It doesn't matter how long you've been in the business or how you know, how smart you are. I mean, we're immune to making mistakes and it's the people who like yourselves, you make the mistakes, you learn from the mistakes and you move on. You'll never, you'll never make that mistake again. I promise you that. That's it. The old adage, yeah. Two steps forward, one step back, you know, and we'll continue to make them as long as you're trying to grow, you're going to make mistakes. So, and, you know, maybe not mistakes, you know, some bad judgment.

Honestly, you learn from all of them. We won't make that one again. There's a couple of them we won't make again. We put processes in place to make sure that doesn't happen. But that's growth. In your business, how many deals are you now actively wholesaling versus fix and flipping? And why do you make the decision to either go one way or another or add a division, right? So for me, just so you guys get the idea of what I'm asking, I was a fix and flipper and

I realized, man, it's such an equity hit, meaning my liquidity was like always going out, waiting for these huge paydays. And I'm like, I could use some cash right now. I would like to go to dinner tonight, but right now I just dumped all my money into these four rehabs. And so I realized wholesaling model is quick capital, smaller chunks, but getting my liquidity back

so I can continue funding this monster. Like in 2012, I did 96 rehab flips dude talk about needing liquidity it was insane so that was my decision is to create the liquidity to continue now it's it's a nice profit center also but to look you know keep that liquidity that i can now fund this side of the business um but slowly transitioned actually. So I was tired of herding cats and dealing with contractors and buyers falling out because of loans. And I started getting tired of the headache and I somewhat transitioned into saying, dude, this wholesale model is beautiful. What was that decision for you guys? Well, I think early on we tended to buy more properties than we do now.

Now we assign or double close many more. I think early on the reason we didn't have a big established cash buyer list. So it was kind of like, all right, we're leaving. This is a deal. I know it's a deal. I'd buy it if I was out there looking for a flip. So we ended up taking many more down. But, you know, to your point, I mean, the cash that that requires is much greater than a marketing budget. I mean, if you're truly just

wholesaling, all you need is a marketing budget, you know, and leads. You don't need anything to close a true wholesale deal. You know, and, you know, the other thing, you know, and leads, you don't need anything to close a true wholesale deal. Right. You know, and, you know, the other thing, you know, Sean will talk about the velocity of your money, you know, the velocity of a deal, which is a big deal. You know, if you can turn, you know, your money, you know, in 10 days versus 90 days or 120 days, you know, perhaps you only make, you know, 30% of the profit margin. But if you can do that six, seven times in the in 120 days, you come out on top,

and it's a whole lot less, less stress than hanging out and managing a contractor, contractor not showing up, you know, your cost of hard money. I mean, there's a lot of moving parts with that. So initially, we were probably about a 50-50 on what we bought and what we wholesaled. Now we're probably more like an 85-15, a 90-10. For wholesaling over buying? Yeah, yeah. 90-10. For wholesaling over buying? Yeah. But the decision for us usually on the buying comes down to still the same type of situation. We feel like we're leaving money on the table by wholesaling. So perhaps it's in an area that doesn't have a lot of cash buyers. It's not in a pricing strata that is attractive to a buying old guy or a flipper

or whatever. So we'll do our analysis and say, we feel like if we buy this thing, we can maximize the profit on it. Yeah. Josh, what are you saying? I mean, do you guys ever come in conflict? Because Eddie and I do, right? There are times where someone, whether it's him or me, or we're like, dude, let's take this down. Let's, you know, because partnerships are a part of this, right? This is a whole, you got to, you know, someone's got to kind of lead the charge typically. So who makes that decision or how do you guys decide like, okay, this is wholesale. What's the percentage?

You know, you and I talked about this in Cabo, right? We have a decision to make. If it's 40% of what we could resell at retail ARV, then we'll go ahead and pull the trigger. What's your decision on whether you're going to take it down? Wait, you're muted. You're muted, Josh. Oh uh sometimes it's a cash flow thing too and uh we'll look at some deals some of our best deals are you know the people need to close in like three days four days whatever some crazy situations and those we look at we're

like all right there's a deal here but it's got to be a really sweet number because we can't wholesale it that that's taken right out of the process. Our disposition process is we try to wholesale it. So we run the numbers. We look at what we think is a good deal. And every once in a while we look at it, there's an odd property where we're like, we know we could make significantly more probably if we buy it and resell it than if we just wholesale it out. But typically, if we can come up with a number, hey, if we got this, if we don't get this, we're okay with it, owning it, because we don't want to leave money on the table. But sometimes we're blown away, and we send those out, and those sell the fastest. So we try to wholesale everything. You know, like I said, even, but sometimes we're just more aggressive than

other ones, depending on what we have it for. If we can't wholesale it, then we look at, does this make sense to actually close on ourselves? Or can we skinny the deal up? Or can we renegotiate with the sellers? We don't really go in with the idea that we're just going to lock it up at whatever price and then renegotiate it. However, part of sending it out to our buyers and all that kind of stuff, just like any buyer, is part of our due diligence process. And sometimes the feedback is not what we thought regarding the property, demand, whatever it is. And so sometimes we go back and renegotiate it. And I think we've gotten better at not being scared to cut a deal and just knowing the way to handle it going in, depending on the seller situation. We don't want to put anybody in a bad situation. And we really pride ourselves in doing the right thing every time, but also making the right business decision.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I hate the people who go in every single deal. They're going to make 20 grand. They'll still go in and renegotiate, try to squeeze an extra whatever from the seller. I mean, at the end of the day, you want to make it a win-win.

You want to make it something that you're actually giving a service to the person and not just being greedy. I mean, at the end of the day, you want to make it a win-win. You want to make it something that you're actually giving a service to the person and not just being greedy. I mean, it's so frustrating to me when I hear people say that because, yeah, there are times where the numbers don't make sense and we thought the deal would make sense

and it doesn't. And so we do have to go back and negotiate, but I definitely don't make that a business model of mine. That's for sure. No, agreed. sure. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah, it's gotten, I think, part of us not taking as many down is our buyers list is much better, significantly better,

even to the fact that we've got other wholesalers that come to us to help them move their properties. Totally. Well, and that's a whole other topic that I try to keep these around 30 minutes. But, I mean, if you're just getting started, getting your buyers list is so crucial because if you can sell someone else's property, you're going to make a dollar every time. And I have the same thing, and we've been around the Phoenix area you and I for long enough people will naturally gravitate towards us but if you were just getting started being able to have buyers on your list that you know will pull the trigger gives you an argument to say hey

Mr. Wholesaler have you moved this yet because I think my buyers will move on this and now you have an argument to go get your first check, your first deal, and really not spend any money, not have to go get the deal first, but take one of my deals and give me a call. Hey, Justin, I have a buyer that I think would love 123 Main Street. Can I send it to him? And if I bring the buyer, can we figure out a plan?

My answer can be say yes, mark it up a little bit for yourself and see if you can make some money up and above my number. But yeah, dude, bring me a buyer and we'll figure it out. And the other way too, right? And I see so many wholesalers, new wholesalers, and in my opinion, what I'd call a mistake, coming into the business, just trying to make as much money as they can on every single deal with total disregard for relationship. And the reason I think that that's a mistake is you might move one property, and maybe you make an extra five grand, 10 grand, whatever it is, but then you get, you know, you might have 10 properties that you can't move, and you end up cutting them or whatever, because you have no resources. So if you find somebody who's actually

got the pockets to close deals that are deals, or that has the database, I mean, our database is 13,000 cash buyers in Phoenix. We sell about 50% of our properties to repeat buyers and about 50% of our properties to people we've never talked to before that just call us, we send it out. So I just think that it's important to leverage both sides. And if you're getting started, you can plug in to somebody who's got that buyer's list, is doing a lot of business, has the capacity to take down deals. It doesn't have to be a forever thing. You might want to run your own whatever, but it can be a cool partnership that you can

leverage for both sides, like you said. And as you're building your buyer's list, maybe you try to help them sell their properties. But also make sure, because the worst thing, you don't want to be coming into this business getting deals. And we all know what goes into to find those deals, especially if you don't have a marketing budget and you are driving for dollars and calling people and doing some of these things. And you get a deal and then you know you're canceling an actual deal because you don't because you don't have the resources. You know, that's that's not a good position to be in. So, you know, it just comes back to the greed thing. Right.

And we're all human. But I just think, you know, working both sides, if you're getting started, it's just synergy and reaching out to other people, not being too proud, you know, to do that. And just we all grow and learn together. Right. Like you said, we're we're right here in the same market. Same market Sean Terry's in. We're all doing six figures a month. We're sitting here talking to each other, giving each other our secrets. I think there's so much power in that.

It goes against, I think, the grain of what most people have thought for a long time. Totally. We're not even scratching the surface. of what most people have thought for a long time. Totally. And there's even more. We're not even scratching the surface. I looked. Phoenix had 6,400 cash transactions in the last 90 days or something like that. We're not even close. Even if all of us are doing 20 deals a month, we're not even 1% of what is happening as an investment world in Phoenix.

So, I mean, there's so much. Whatever you're doing and your secrets and my secrets, I'm happy to give them because we're not even coming close to getting like the majority. Oh, I want to be the big dog. I mean, we're not even a full 1% of what's really going on here on that side, right? So, it's crazy. It's crazy. No,

it is interesting. I mean, you know, we haven't been at it a long time. We've been wholesaling for about 15 months now. Yeah. And, uh,

we, uh, we've been on a fair number of appointments. I don't think we've ever bought heads with you on an appointment, Justin, as far as we know, nor Sean. Right.

Crazy. Right. Crazy, right? Yeah. So listen, let everyone know where they can find you, what your company name is, who you guys are. You guys are rock stars, right? I have you on here. You're a part of the billionaire boardroom because you have been accepted because you're at a certain level of your business, right? So let everyone know who you are, what you do, your company, and where they can reach you if they need something uh the website so if if anybody who's looking for for deals we we put all of our deals on our website most of them sell within the first 24 hours i'd say about 50 of them sell within the

first 24 hours when we do blast them um but it's presleyelizabel.com p-r-e-s-l-e-y-L-I-Z-A-B-E-L, just like it sounds. So PresleyLizabal.com. And we're on Facebook as well. Our seller website is AZHomeWebsite.com. That's what we use for lead generation. We send our direct mail if they're going to go online to that, and we use that for our Google pay-per-click and now Facebook. And we're on Facebook as Sell Your AZ Home Now, I believe it is, is our seller Facebook site.

And we're right here, and our office is in Tempe, but we're all over Arizona, all over Phoenix especially. Yeah. Yeah, so if anybody does come up with any deals, you know, reach out to Josh or the AZHomeWebsite.com and just put some notes in there. He'll get back with you, and, you know, we'll underwrite it and see if it's something we feel like we can help you move. Cool. Yeah, and find us on Facebook, too, Josh Gaiman, Mark McIntyre.

We're both on there. Love to connect with other people that are like-minded. Absolutely. Right on. Guys, you run a business. You're moving and shaking. I really appreciate, from me, I really appreciate you two taking some time out coming you know giving some knowledge to our loyal listeners i i argue i have the best listeners they're super engaged uh you know

tens of thousands of downloads a week um so thank you very much for taking some time to to give back to to our listeners here at the Science of Flipping, guys. I appreciate it. Right on, Justin. Thanks, man. You got it. Good luck to y'all. Yeah. So, guys, again, I'm doing a Mastermind series.

I'm bringing on the top notch, the highest of high, the elite, the seven figures plus a year guys. This is Josh and Mark. I'm going to be continuing this series. If you want to be a part of our masterminds, we have three different levels. You have the beginner level, the medium, intermediate level,

and then the advanced level, right? So you have boardroom, boardroom elite, and billionaire boardroom. If you want to be around like-minded people like Josh was talking about, you want to be around me or Kent Clothier or these two, Josh and Mark, or anyone else, you know, Sean, Terry,

go to the website, fill out an application. There's no cost to it. We don't accept everybody. We make sure that you're going to provide the group value because it's important, but make it easy for us to accept you. Show us, be authentic, be genuine, be transparent in your application because we want the right people in the room, but we are here to help you guys. we want the right people in the room. But we are here to help you guys. So go to thescienceofflipping.com, go fill out an application and we will start to review. My team will start to review it and see how far you get along the process. But guys, that is what we got for this episode. Thank you so much for, again, being such great loyal listeners. Josh and Mark, appreciate you both. And let's go have some beer sometime.

We're out of here. Right on. Yes. Peace.