The Science of Flipping - Episode 9: Working with and finding good contractors | Real Estate Investing Podcast

Episode Date: October 18, 2013

document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", function () { podlovePlayer("#player-5eb5ab325ed01", "https://thescienceofflipping.com/wp-json/podlove-web-player/shortcode/post/328", "https://thescienceofflipping.com/wp-json/podlove-web-player/shortcode/config/default/theme/default"); }); document.addEventListener("DOMContentLoaded", function () { podlovePlayer("#player-5eb5ab325ed56", {"title":"Real Estate Investing Podcast u2013 Episode 9 | Working with and finding good contractors","subtitle":null,"summary":null,"duration":"","poster":null,"chapters":"","transcripts":"","audio":[{"url":"http://thescienceofflipping.com/audio/Podcast-Episode-9-Working-with-and-finding-Contractors.mp3","mimeType":"audio/mpeg","title":"AUDIO/MPEG","size":0}]}, "https://thescienceofflipping.com/wp-json/podlove-web-player/shortcode/config/default/theme/default"); }); We all know it is difficult to find good contractors that stick around.  This podcast reviews how to find the good ones, how to keep them around, and how to keep them at the best price. It can be a full time job dealing with contractors on you flip deals.  It is incredibly important to have multiple contractors you work with on a consistent bases. Learn the systems we use with our contractors.

Welcome to the Science of Flipping Podcast. I'm your host, Justin Colby. Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody to the Science of Flipping Podcast, Episode 9. We are going to be talking about working with and finding good contractors in your fix and flip business today, guys. You don't want to miss this. If you guys are a newbie, if you guys have never heard me before, if this is your first time to our website, thescienceofflipping.com, and go download our free e-book, The 15 Most Costly Mistakes a Real Estate Investor Can Make. Guys, this e-book is known as the best e-book you can get on the market. I constantly am getting compliments about this e-book being the e-book you can get on the market. I constantly am getting compliments about this e-book being

the e-book everyone should have had, this being the blueprint for getting started in the business and what not to do, guys. Again, get over to the website, thescienceofflipping.com, and download the free e-book. Even if you are an investor for 10 to 15 years, you will absolutely either appreciate the e-book and say, you know, I made these mistakes myself, or you are going to say, oh my goodness, I'm glad I learned that there. So again, go download that free e-book. It gives you everything you do not want to be doing in your real estate business today. Again, today, guys, we are going to be going over how to work with and find good contractors as a real estate fix and flipper investor. We all know how difficult that can be.

But guys, about the podcast in and of itself, again, if you are new to this podcast and you happen to land here or you chose this podcast to be your first podcast, you listen to, guys. What this podcast is about is primarily giving you the systems in your fix and flip business. And it has been very important for my business partner, Eddie Rosefield and I, to create the systems in our business because we wanted to live a certain lifestyle. That lifestyle is really focused on spending a lot of quality time with family and friends, not being pinned to a desk, not having to answer to a boss, being able to work while on vacation, while in a different country,

or even from the comfort of our own couch. That's a lifestyle that we've always wanted to develop. And after four or five years, we really started implementing these systems. And over the last two, three years, we've been crushing it. We've been traveling across the world from state to state, from country to country, working at the same time, but having the freedom to do what we want, when we want. And guys, as a fix and flipper, most people out there, and if you're already an active fix and flipper, I'm sure you're telling yourself it can't be done. But I'm here today to tell you, and these podcasts are here today to give you the information and give you the systems so you can run your fix and flip business so that you can be doing two to five fix and flips a month without even walking into the building that you're flipping.

The systems are here on this podcast, guys. If you have never heard my story, who I am, what we're about here at Phoenix Wealth Builders or the science of flipping, our flip about here at Phoenix Wealth Builders or the science of flipping. Our flip company is called Phoenix Wealth Builders. And what we do is your very traditional fix and flip model, anywhere from $100,000 property here in Phoenix, Arizona, all the way up to, I think this week we're looking at an $800,000 fix and flip. But it wasn't always as glorious as us being able to be here on a podcast and traveling across the world and having the fun that we have. It wasn't always

that picture, right? Right now, that's a picture in time of where we are and we've worked very hard to get here. But we definitely made a lot of sacrifices. I remember the time where I was sleeping on a buddy's couch in San Francisco because I couldn't afford to pay him rent. I know Eddie would speak about the fact that he's lost cars and his homes have gone to foreclosure. And the reason why we're here today, guys, is because we stuck with it. And we've lost it all. And I lost my home to a short sale. We've had to give back cars. We've slept on couches.

We've gone through that hard time, but we stuck with it. We had the fortitude to keep pushing forward. After four or five years, we really started gaining some traction. We really started creating the lifestyle that we wanted to create. We started to live by design. A good friend and mentor of mine, Kent Clothier, says that all the time. Create a life by design. And we really started to do that.

And again, we started to travel the world and do a volume game with the fix and flips. And again, now today, many investors would consider us to be very, very successful. And we consider ourselves to be successful, but we're not done. We haven't stopped. We're continuing to push forward, grow as a company, grow as people. And we know there's speed bumps and hurdles that you have to get over every single day, whether it's personal or in business. We've made a commitment to each other that we're never giving up. We're always going to be pushing forward to get to our goals financially so we can live the life by design that we design ourselves. Guys, that is what we are about here. That is what the podcast is about.

We are giving you all of our information for free. You just need to subscribe to the podcast. Download each and every podcast. It is right there. I hold nothing back, guys. I give you everything that we have and what we do in our business is all in the podcast. So that being said, guys, let's just get to work. Let's get going on covering working with and finding good contractors, guys.

There's a million contractors out there, but the key is to finding some good contractors. And I say some, and I'm going to get to this later, guys. You never want to rely on just one contractor. You want to have a bullpen of contractors in case something goes wrong, guys. Let's just jump right in. First, I want to just start covering where do you find contractors? Besides calling around and asking friends and family, if you've had work done to your house,

possibly, can you, you know, refer a good contractor, but let's list some ideas of where to find these contractors. Let's start with one, real estate agents. Real estate agents is a great area and a great avenue to find contractors. They oftentimes work directly with contractors because a lot of times, binsers happen. And that's really where you need to have a contractor go in and fix a lot of the mistakes that were caught by inspection. So a lot of realtors have some pretty good contractors practically on speed dial is what I would probably say. So start with your real estate agent. Start asking around to real estate agents what real estate agents would or what contractors would be good for the type of

work you need, right? Because not all contractors are going to be great for every single fix and flipper. You might even want to ask those real estate agents for subcontractors. So when I speak about contractors, I'm talking about the licensed contractor that has the insurance for the job that everything goes under. The subcontractors would be the roofers, the electrician, the pool guys. Those are going to be your subcontractors. So start with realtors. That's a great place to start. Another great place to look is simply driving around looking for rehabs that are currently going on in your area. That's another great place that I've been able to pick up some contractors.

One of the sneakiest ninja ways that I've been able to pick up contractors that I live and die by that I coach hundreds if not thousands of students is go in to Lowe's any day of the week, Home Depot, any day of the week, and start looking for guys that have paint all over them. Start looking for guys that have wood chips all over them. Start looking for people that you can see are doing work right then, right there, and they're just there for a pit stop to pick up a material or something of that nature, right? Those are going to be contractors. Those are the people that you just need to approach and introduce yourself and simply say, hey, you know, I bought 123 Main Street looking for a good contractor. Come in, give me a full bid for a full rehab. Would you be of interest in giving me that bid or at least bidding that home

for me? That is one of my sneakiest ninja ways that I have to get the contractors that I'm looking for, really. So those are two great ways. Obviously, contractors know subcontractors. What we do in our business is when we do find contractors, we allow them to find their own subcontractors. We've gotten to a point in our business now where we don't go find all of our subcontractors. We allow them to. Now, we have a bullpen of subcontractors to use if we need them or even need to implement them into. Now, we have a bullpen of some contractors to use if we need them or even need to implement them into our business, but primarily we allow the general contractor the authority to go find his own subs since it's his license that he's working with anyways. Another great place to find contractors are from other investors.

Now, that one is probably a no-duh. You're probably thinking, oh, yeah, well, I'll just call around and ask for more, or ask more investors for their contractors. A lot of investors won't give up good contractors. So know that going into that. You're not going to get the best of the best at all times. Now, I'll tell you a quick story. There was a time where one of our best contractors had a complete meltdown.

And if he's out there and listening to this, he knows exactly who he is. He had a complete personal meltdown. We couldn't do anything about it. And he walked off three rehabs in the middle of the job. Just walked off, was gone. And you know, fortune would have it. I called up an investor here in Phoenix that we know that does a lot of deals and he's a little bit more of a wholesaler here. But you know, I said, you know, they probably know some contractors I'll call around. He gave me one of the best contractors we've used for years, for years. And that was just because he at the time wasn't doing any fix and flips.

He knew this guy needed some work, so he handed him over. So guys, ask around. Don't expect for other investors to always give you the best contractor, but if they're slow or if they have a buddy who's a contractor or whatever, they'll give you some names. I received a call today from an investor asking for some cabinet guys, and I'm going to send them an email here right after this podcast, actually, and I'm going to send them the name of our cabinet guys and our granite guy. I'm always of the mentality is you really got to give to get. And karma is very real. And if I keep giving, if I keep helping, if I keep giving out contractor referrals, or if I keep giving out information on podcasts and in helping,

ultimately, my life is going to be a very beautiful life and I truly believe in karma and what goes around comes around. So always keep giving. So those are a couple great ways to find contractors. Again, let's review them. We have real estate agents, other investors going to Lowe's, Home Depot, and just looking around for the guys who look like they're doing some work. Here's one that for some of you just won't work and other of you guys, you're saying no duh again. Facebook, LinkedIn. These are professional. You can utilize them in a professional manner, looking for resources in all sorts of business.

Go out there and simply say, I'm looking for a contractor to do a major rehab. Does anyone have any referrals? Does anyone have any referrals? You will be shocked how many people would probably answer you saying, hey, give me a call, private message me, or they'll simply put the person's name and number out there and give it to you right there

on Facebook, right there on LinkedIn. Again, for some of you who don't have Facebook or LinkedIn, I really suggest you get on it for no other reason than that, to network and gain resources. For those of you who are quite good at utilizing LinkedIn and Facebook, that's probably a no-dust statement again, but get out there. Get onto those social platforms and simply ask around. You will be shocked what you're going to be able to find. Point number two I want to make today, I briefly touched on this already. Don't just find one contractor. Find one initially, which is great, but never stop looking for those contractors. Utilize the methods I just gave you to always be looking for contractors because if you're

starting to do one deal and then two deals at the same time, maybe you even start doing three or four deals at the same time. If you're able to grow your business and find those deals, a lot of times contractors will tell you that they can take three, four, five, six projects on at a time. More often than not, we have found three projects at a time is usually their threshold. Unless they are a corporate contractor who have very big corporate accounts and a huge staff and plenty of contractors to go around, really most of these smaller contractors can really be only taking one, two, and I would say three is the max that they can really be doing at one time. So if you're like us here at Phoenix Wealth Builders,

you know, any given time we may have five, six, seven rehabs going at one given time. We need more than one contractor. And if you're able to have that many, if you're doing multiple rehabs, you always need more contractors. And let's be brutally honest. You always need more contractors because life happens. Who knows? I just told you a story about how one of my contractors just walked off three of our jobs and was gone. Had a meltdown, couldn't find him, just walked off.

That can happen. It had nothing to do with us, had nothing to do with the jobs, had nothing to do with being paid. He just had a meltdown. And we were fortunate enough at the time, this was several years ago, to be able to call an investor buddy of ours, and he gave a great referral, and we're always appreciative of that. So I always make the argument when I'm coaching all of our students, make sure you're getting more than one contractor. Another great reason, you want multiple bids for your rehab job. You can't just have one contractor give you a bid and you accept it. You have no idea what he costs versus someone else. He may be incredibly cheap, but you don't really know how to justify that until you see someone

else's bid, right? So he could be incredibly expensive and you don't know how to justify that until you see someone else's bid. So never, ever rely on just one contractor in your business. That is just not enough. You need multiple contractors. And the key to that is you need to make sure that they're licensed. We've done it every way you can possibly imagine. We found just simple subcontractors to do all the small little jobs. We've done the general contractor who says he's licensed and we find out he's not licensed, you need to go on the ROC, get his ROC contractor's number and make sure they are licensed in the state that you are in. That is very, very important because if something were to go wrong, their license covers

it. They're not going to go after you. They're going to go after the contractor's license. There has been one instance, guys, where for whatever reason, it rained like 10 straight days here in Arizona a couple years ago, and one of the roofs that we did did not hold up. luckily, our contractor was licensed. He said, that's my responsibility. That was my fault. Let me go in there and replace it. And all was good in the world. But if I didn't have that contractor with that license, he could have just walked from that and I could have been sued by that homeowner. That would have been a big issue for us. So it is very, very important that you guys remember to, when you are hiring general contractors, make sure that they're

licensed. That being said, guys, once you do find a good contractor or two or three, well, how do you keep them good? How do you keep them doing business efficiently, guys? We have found over time that contractors, for the most part, have a shelf life. Our first job, they bid really low and they're hell on wheels and they're getting after it and they're finishing a week before they said they could and they're the cheapest we've ever seen and they're the greatest job and you know the second job's really good and the third job's pretty good and the fourth job's good and the fifth job's okay what's going on here and the sixth job's like are we dealing with someone different what happened to you where did you know all of a sudden we're a week behind all All of a sudden, there's

$10,000 more on the same rehab that we did on the neighbor property. Mostly, we are finding there's about an 18-month shelf life and or 10 to 15 deals. Things start changing. They don't budget as well as they should be budgeting. They start to realize they're eating a lot of costs. They have layoffs. People stop coming to work, whatever. Long story short, unless they're a pretty decent sized company, some of these smaller contractors, no offense to all you contractors out there, start having a shelf life. All of a sudden, the same size house, same rehab, costs an extra five, 10 grand, and that, for no good reason on our side.

We don't really understand that, right? So we have to go in and ask them. And all of a sudden, that $30,000 rehab became a $40,000 rehab. Well, we didn't do anything different. Where's the $10,000 going? So you have to stay watching these contractors because quite frankly, a lot of times it's just a matter of time before their quality of work isn't as good. They want to get the first job

first. So they may not even make any money on the first job. Then they make very little money on the second job. Third job, they make a little bit more money and so on and so forth. So you got to figure out how do you keep them good? Well, one of the systems that we implement, now again, remember these podcasts are all about systems that we do in our business. So one of the systems that we implemented was the draw system. There's a lot of different systems that investors use as far as payment to their contractors. And the one that we adopted and we utilized and we formatted for our business

was a three-draw payment system. And with that payment system, per each draw, the contractor needs to sign a lien waiver saying that they've been paid in full for the work that has been done. That is key, guys. When we first started out, we just were cowboys. We just put it together, got them paid, and made it work one way or another. And thankfully, no contractor ever came back to us. We've never had a lien put on one of our rehabs by a contractor. Everything worked out okay.

But the reality is any of those scenarios could have happened. So the system that you need to be doing and need to be implementing is A, a draw system. And B, for those draws, you need to make sure that they are signing a lien waiver. It is not negotiable. They have to sign the lien waiver before you cut them another check. So our draw system is very simple here. Here in Arizona, for your very traditional single family home that you buy for $150,000, most likely you're going to be looking at anywhere from a $30,000 to $40,000 rehab, probably closer to the $30,000 side. So what we do is we set up our first draw

to be 50% of the entire rehab budget. We set a benchmark for what we feel would be the next draw, when that draw would be able to be asked for. The next draw will be 30% of the entire budget, and the last draw would be 20%. Now, the first draw is given up front. Why is the first draw given up front? They need to order materials. They need to be able to pay their guys for the first couple days labor, first week's labor. But a lot of it has to do with they need to be able to pre-order cabinets, pre-order a large amount of tile, pre-order paint. They need to go out there and buy that material. So a lot of that money, quite frankly, doesn't really go to their pocket. It goes to the material that you're

going to need to run the job. It also goes to their guys who need labor. And so we felt 50, now we've played with this a lot, guys. We felt 50% is the number right now that really allows them the ability to go out there and pay for the materials as well as pay their guys and maybe put a little bit of money inasters are laughing and even in California, our average timeframe for rehab is four to five weeks most. Our average time is about four weeks. Sometimes it can be three, sometimes it could be five. And that is where we stand. So usually by week two, we know a certain amount of work should be done. If it's not done, we're going to ask them why is that not done. They're not going to get their second draw and they got to keep moving until it is. If the work is done or maybe they need to place another larger order or whatnot

and we need to give them the next 30%, we will make sure they sign a lien waiver that 80% has been paid. Whatever that dollar amount, we make sure that they sign that that has been paid for the services rendered and the materials. The last draw, guys, the last draw doesn't come until we go and do a final walkthrough. Now we, my partner Eddie and I, will go do the walkthrough. Our project manager will go through the walkthrough. And then finally and lastly, we will have our real estate agent go in and do a walkthrough. And the reason why that's so important is because the real estate agent ultimately is the one that's going to be

selling it. So we don't want to pay the contractor if the real estate agent says, you know, I really think X, Y, and Z needs to be fixed, done, or made complete, whatever. At that point, once we give the green light, our project manager gives the green light, and finally the real estate agent gives the green light, we give the contractor the last draw of the rehab. So again, guys, it's 50%, 30%, and 20%. The last draw does not come until myself, the project manager, and the real estate agent all give it a green light. We will then cut the check and make them paid in full. And again, they will have to sign a lien waiver to make sure that they say paid in full

for all services and materials rendered. Now, throughout the draw system, like I mentioned, you need to have a benchmark, right? So now we know in our market exactly where that benchmark typically is. Typically in that two-week point, we know what really kind of needs to be getting done. Obviously, we need to make sure that most of the product is there. Demo's already completed, obviously. Electrical's got to be completed. So there's a certain benchmark that we have. And now we are very specific with our contractor about that benchmark.

We do not waiver on those benchmarks. So they need to make sure that they're done. One would be like the roof. If we know without a shadow of a doubt we've got to replace the roof, it's one of the first things that we do. And we make sure it's done well before we give even the second draw. So setting up those benchmarks is going to be key for you and your contractor. Then having your contractor sign the benchmark so that you can say,

hey, you signed this benchmark saying that we're going to give you your second draw after the tile was laid or the carpet went in or the paint was finished, and make sure they sign off on that. Very, very important. Now remember, the reason why you do these things is because a lot of times contractors are hard to keep held accountable and you need to hold these contractors accountable. One of the ways that we have really systemized that so we're not too in the business, we're not too on site too often, is we hired a project manager. That project manager's sole job is to keep the contractor accountable

and on pace for completing the job when we all agreed the job would be completed. So once we, and let me take a step back, when we green lit the rehab bid, when we finally accepted the rehab bid at the right price, we had them sign a contract saying they will be done with this rehab within 30 days at this said price, everyone signs and that is that. So the project manager is saying, okay, here's where the project needs to be finished. I know when it's supposed to be done. Now let me make sure I'm holding the contractor to the benchmarks that he needs to hit to make sure he finishes at the same pace.

We use the same system for the real estate development we're doing out in Mesa, Arizona. We're doing a 79 unit townhome development on an eight acre parcel of land and we use the same exact system with all of the contractors and all of the subs on site there. We took the system from our rehab business and implemented it on our development company and on our development. And it works phenomenal. In fact, you put a timeline up on the wall in the house saying, okay, you know, we're on day eight and this is what I've seen done. We really need to get here and everyone sees that timeline and everyone sees when the rehab should be done.

And so everyone becomes held accountable. Now, how we pay our project manager is simply per deal. We pay our project manager $1,000 per deal. Now, we run a volume game, right? So we'll do 50 some odd flips this year. We did 96 last year. So $1,000 per deal is very fair because they make a good income. If you're only doing one or two deals a year, it may be adjusted. You may need to rethink how you're paying your project manager. But either way, I think you build your project manager into the deal. Here's why. You don't want to have to go to the home every day. You want to be able to live the idea about this whole

podcast, this episode and the other however many episodes now. The idea is for you to live the life that you want to be living, for you to be spending the time with friends and family and traveling while still doing these rehab flips. Well, to do that, you need someone to run the systems. And for us, that is the project manager. He keeps the contractor in line, on budget, and in time. That sounded kind of good. In line, on budget, and in time. I like that. That might be my new slogan.

So anyways, you need to be looking at bringing someone like that onto your deal. And again, if you're not doing a volume deal and you're not doing 50 deals a year, you may need to adjust how you pay that individual. Do they need to be a licensed contractor? No. Do they need to have some experience? I would say yeah. You obviously could bring someone new on, but you'd have to teach them a lot and it'd take a lot of your time. But at least have some experience, whether it's, shoot, an electrician, a roofer, a framer, a pool, got some sort of experience somewhere, really goes a long way. Make sure they got some sort of experience with this. Now, as we kind of started this podcast, we've been talking about how to find good contractors, how to keep them in line, on budget, and in time. I'm telling you, I think I'm going to continue

using that. Love it. One of the arguments, and it's an argument in any business, is about what works better, the carrot or the stick? What I mean by that is what motivates people more? Dangling the carrot saying we're going to give you this big financial bonus. We're going to put you on vacation. We're going to buy you a car, whatever. Or the stick saying, if you don't do this, here's your punishment. Well, people go back and forth about this in business all the time so i'm not going to sit here and tell you there is for sure the right way to do it without a shadow of a doubt quite frankly i think a lot of that depends upon who you are dealing with and feeling them out. Figuring out what would really motivate them to complete the job on time, on budget, and in line. That is going to be the key there.

And so it's funny because I'll end up reading a lot of these quote-unquote self-help books about communication and communicating with people and how to be a boss and how to be a president and CEO and how to deal with all these people. So I read all these books educating myself on how to deal with them because quite frankly, I tend to be a lot more of the personality that I work harder with the carrot. If you dangle a carrot in front of me and say, I'm going to give you this bonus or I'll send you on this vacation or I'm going to buy you this TV if you complete the job on time and in budget, I'm the personality that would work harder for that than if someone said, if you don't complete this job in time and on budget, I'm going to garnish your wages. I don't get motivated by that. However, a lot of people do. A lot of people do. So one of the systems that we've developed is kind of a best of both worlds. You come in, in time, on budget, even one day earlier,

one day earlier than what we all agreed to and signed on on the document, one day earlier, we will give you a financial bonus. Sometimes it's $500, sometimes it's $1,000, sometimes it's a big gift card to Best Buy, we will give you a financial bonus, a pretty substantial financial bonus. One day earlier, that's all it takes. If you finish a week earlier, we'll send you on vacation, right? We give those carrots. At the same time, we say, okay, we're all signing off that you're going to finish this rehab in four weeks to the day.

On the fourth week in one day, we're going to start charging you a per diem. We're going to charge you $200 every single day. You are not complete with this rehab. And that comes off of your last paycheck, your last draw. So now we've mixed the best of both worlds, in my opinion. We give them that carrot. Go finish this rehab even a day early, and we'll give you a good bonus. Finish a week early and we'll give you a good bonus. Finish a week early, we'll send you on vacation. Finish it a day over, we're taking money out of your pocket, baby.

We're not playing around. Time is money. Every day over, we're taking more money out of your pocket. Make sure you get the job done on time. Guys, that's the systems we use in our business. And you guys are going to hear a bunch of different podcasts from us and we're always excited to give our podcasts, but the rehab, finding the contractors, working with the contractors, how to keep the contractors motivated, how to make sure they stay on point. Well, let me bring up just a couple of the concepts that we covered today. Never get comfortable with just one contractor.

Always, always, always have two, three, or four contractors that you work with. They will bid against each other. They will give you better deals. They will not feel comfortable and relax and rely on their morals. You need to always have multiple contractors. I just reviewed with you guys the concept of carrot or a stick. We implement both. We give them a financial bonus if they finish even a day early or a week early and we give them a financial beating, so to speak. If they finish even a day late, we take money out of the last draw. It affects them. Making sure that they have benchmarks.

How to make sure they have benchmarks? Make sure they sign off on when things are supposed to be done, when the draws will be given, and ultimately get a project manager into your business. Fit them into the rehab budget if you can. Fit them into the rehab budget and make sure that that project manager keeps your general contractor on point. In fact, guys, we bonus our project manager. It is not uncommon. I think last two weeks ago, I think we gave them a $500 American Express prepaid card for doing such a great job for us. And that stuff goes a long ways. Again, I'm more of a carrot guy. I like giving the bonus. I like giving them the,

you know, thank you for doing a good job. Rather than whipping that leash, get your project manager in the job. Ultimately, keep going and finding contractors, real estate agents, other investors. Go to Lowe's. Go to Home Depot. Go to these areas. Ask around.

Use social media. Get on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter. Ask if anyone has a good contract referral. Get out there and ask around. Contractors are hard, guys. I understand it. We've been doing this for years now. We've hired, I can't even tell you how many contractors we've hired. We go through contractors. They seem to have a shelf life of about 18 months. Never stop looking for good contractors. Systemize it so that you have the project manager keeping them on point and make sure that they do the job in line, on budget, and on time, guys. All right, guys.

That's all we got for today. Thank you again for listening. Very excited. I know I'm getting a lot of great responses from this. This was episode nine, going over, working with, and finding good contractors. Get over to the website, thescienceofflipping.com. Get your free e-book, and I'll see you guys next week. Peace.