The Science of Flipping - Financial Literacy Through Land Investing | Travis King

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

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It doesn't have to just be land or houses or land versus houses. You can marry these, right? Land is a high cash flowing business model. So you can marry that with like the BRRRR strategy. It's incredible. Yo, yo, what is up everybody? Welcome back to the Science of Flipping podcast. I am your host, Justin Colby. So let's jump into our special guest this week. As you guys know, I try to bring the hottest and newest and best people to advise you about real estate investing here on the Science of Flipping. And while this guy isn't new, he's been in the game for quite some time. I was just recently introduced to him. And so I really wanted him to come on to this show, introduce himself to you guys, primarily about land flipping. But we have

Travis King here. What's up, dude? Hey, Justin, how you doing, man? Glad to be here. And yeah, happy to evangelize land and land flipping. Yeah. And I think one of the things that you and I resonate with is understanding where people start, right? We all know that, I think you used the word chasm earlier today, which I really liked, but there's this gap, right? Where people are like, man, I'd really like to get into this space, but I might have a job. I'm a parent.

I'm a husband. I'm a wife. You know, I want to try to get here, I don't know what to do, or maybe you're broke, and you're out of money, and you don't know how to get started. And then all of a sudden, you see someone on social media saying, hey, build a seven figure your business, right. And I think there's this massive gap that I think I want to kind of start out here with that you and I were talking about, even just how you started and how it went from where you started to kind of this, the building out what you've built out. So why don't

we just kind of start with that, how you started? Well, I think there's two chasms or gaps, right? Grand Canyon type gaps. And sometimes like that gap can be like where you're at in your first deal, man, that can feel like a grand canyon of a gap for some people, right? Like from going not starting to getting a first deal, like that's a bigger gap than it is from first deal to 10th deal, right? Honestly. So like, so sometimes I think regardless of where people are at, trying to put yourself as an advanced investor to step back and remember when you were there, right in somebody's shoes. So I think for me, we had started with single family houses,

you know, in the early 2000s. And I was in my young 20s, read Rich Dad Poor Dad, like a lot of people. But here's where my story goes a little different. I didn't study it. I didn't master it. I use it as like this motivational tool to like like run out and just buy anything and everything, right? Like I didn't study the principles in it. So this is not a knock against him because I love his stuff now because I truly understand it and appreciate it now. But I used it to run out and buy properties as the market was. I mean, if you looked at Zillow or Zestimate, we bought at the peak of the peak, right? Before the 2007, 2008, because I thought I was a real estate investor, a house investor. And we crashed and burned miserably, ended in foreclosure. I entered like retreat mode, right? Not even reload,

but like retreat mode for a while, tail between the legs, kind of like, man, okay, I guess I'm just going to be trapped in a job forever. And at the time, my wife and I were, and I'm from Montana, but we were working in California. I met my wife, my fiance in California. And we both had these incredible jobs, almost six figure jobs in our early twenties. And within three months of each other, we both lost our jobs. Right. So we both lost our jobs. I had an adjustable rate mortgage. I lost my job, was over leveraged and was in a position where kind of was like probably a year ahead of the rest of the nation. You know, so for us, it was more like 2007. And it put us in a position where all of a sudden we're both without our jobs and over leveraged in debt. And we decided to relocate to Montana, where I'm from, essentially to rebuild, right, to

slow things down and get back to the basics and rebuild. And then I just went to work. We got married, started our family. And then like, fast forward, just, I still always had that itch of like, you know, wanting to be an entrepreneur. And I knew real estate was the avenue. But I also was suffering from a little bit of kind of PTSD from, you know, from failing miserably, right, within houses. So I think I was really concerned about the next time around, like, if I'm going to do something, I've got to be more deliberate, more educated. So I really took a number of years, half a decade kind of, you know, decided that if I'm going to go back

into real estate investing, it's going to be more intelligently. And there was a number of things. Go ahead. There's a couple things I want to highlight so people don't blow by everything you just said right in your own experience first and foremost you just went right so one of the things that i encourage everyone to do is done is better and perfect start taking massive action imperfect it along the way now you just like myself got crushed during the crash and we are a statistic millions of people got crushed but the crash. And we are a statistic, millions of people got crushed. But what I admire about you, what I encourage everyone to get doing is by just starting to take action. So while I understand kind of in round two of your career, first of all, I think you waited too long, in my opinion, I think 10 years would have been way you what you could have

done in that 10 years, if you were able to lick your wounds a little faster and get back up off the mat, you would be, I mean, you might not even be on the podcast. You'd be on a boat somewhere. Right. And so there's a couple of things I want people to realize about what he just said in a very brief couple of minutes. He's a man of action. He takes massive action. It got him a ton of success. Now, because of what happened in the real estate market, he got crushed. Not necessarily his fault, but at the end of the day, I will tell you after doing this for 15 years, and now you've done this for how many years, not including the 10 that you took off. Did I hear you right? You took about 10 years off? I mean, I bought my, I mean, I was in my early twenties, right? Like our, one of our rentals we still own today. I bought an 04, you know? Perfect. So you, some of that

stuff. We're going on, we're going on 20 years of real estate. Although the first 10 years was kind of like this unintelligent throw it against the wall, see what sticks. And the last 10 have been looked a lot different about two decades now. Yeah. So again, action taker, massive. He came back. Massive takeaway for all of you guys out there. Okay. The reality is he could have stayed down. And many did. They said, I just got crushed. I'm done. I'm out. Right. And that's the easy way to go. But Travis, like me, we don't stay down. And I say this over and over and over again to people, you can never beat a man that keeps getting up ever. And after 15 years and losing millions and millions of dollars myself, I can tell you, those are some of the

best moments of education you could possibly get. Because you realize what you did wrong, maybe it's greed, maybe it's jumping way outside your comfort zone. So like for me, it was a development play of 79 townhomes. I've never developed a home, let alone 79, right? So there's some takeaways I immediately want you guys to take away from what this man is talking about, which is go take massive action, perfect it as you're going, but also realize along the way, there are going to be failures and that's perfectly okay. What is not okay is if you allow those failures to keep you down, that is not okay. And that's why I'm excited to have him here is because that is a perfect example of he could have easily made that excuse. He got back in the game he's built something

really really impressive and he doesn't give excuses right so that's so if that's listeners only takeaway justin and we don't i mean like and we don't even touch on land right like that takeaway alone seriously like for me because we've got to understand all of our own upbringing our psychology a lot goes into how we handle this type of trauma right so for me it because we've got to understand all of our own upbringing, our psychology, a lot goes into how we handle this type of trauma, right? So for me, it felt like trauma, like it was a big blow failing at real estate. And it took me a long time to recover. In hindsight, you know, a much older guy now a lot more experienced, a lot more reps, you know, more time under the bar, I'm able to look back and say, Yeah, that's crazy. It took me so long

to heal and recover from that. Right. But I, what I want people to understand. And I think you're saying too, is that like failure or failures or mishap, these aren't permanent failures, not permanent, right? Failure is a speed bump. It's a bump in the road, dude. Like it's not permanent. It does not define you. And I really let it define me for a long time. I mean, I took it real personal, right? I took it real personal, took it real hard. And it felt like I let myself down. I worried the next go around, I'd let my family down because now I had a family, right? I'm married with kids. I can't make these mistakes again. So I really did. Like you say, I delayed a long time. And that's

very personal. That's that's me, my makeup, my upbringing, it took me a while. And it you're not born with bulletproof confidence, right? But that resilience comes from adversity. So like the worst thing you can have is like, do incredible your first couple deals and have blind success, right? And think that because that's not sustainable, not sustainable, right? So I feel like kind of those lumps that adversity later are like the, you know, chinks in your armor, right? That later allow you to be much more resilient. So in hindsight, I'm very grateful for that experience at the time.

I wouldn't have said that. And you wouldn't heard me say out loud that I'm grateful or thankful at all for any of it. But it all, it all was like a chapter in the book is all part of the journey, right? All right. So here's the reality. Now you've licked your wounds, in my opinion, maybe stay down a little too long, because you're obviously a successful individual. But to your point, we're not all made up with the same DNA to do this, but you did it. And now you say, okay, how am I pivoting? How am I adjusting? How am I adapting? So where do you go from here? You fail, you lost your ass. Again, I would make the argument. It probably wasn't even your fault,

you know, victim of circumstance and timing in the market, right. To some extent there, but now you pivot and let's talk about the pivot that you made. victim of circumstance and timing in the market, right? To some extent there. But now you pivot and let's talk about the pivot that you made. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm not going to, because this isn't a two hour long show, I'm not going to tell you about the car flipping, the camper flipping, the mystery shopping, all the set, the Amazon business, the dropshipping, all the side hustles we tried along the way as I was scared to go back into real estate, all these things that didn't work. We won't talk about all those, but let's just say there was some low points, some desperate points, and nothing brought the money that real estate brings, right? And real estate investing. And I always on those commutes to work on the trips out of town still always had that nagging feeling inside about like you are like you're meant for more. Right. You're not meant to be building somebody else's empire. Right. Like you need to you need to not be a knight in somebody else's castle.

Right. You need to own your own castle. Right. You need to build your own empire. And it constantly nagged at me, even as I did my day job really well, I wasn't building my empire, you know, and it bothered me. It just wasn't in alignment with who I was. And so I was still following and tracking real estate on my commutes. I was listening to Bigger Pockets, which I would assume like your audience, right? Everybody knows a very wildly popular podcast really broad about real estate investing. And this is fast forward. We talked about the crash in 08. This is 2013, just to give people kind of some perspective.

And I hear this guy come on, be an interview. And he's talking about land and land flipping. Okay. And I was a little bit familiar with land and that my dad had bought some land, subdivided some land when I was growing up. But it wasn't in the context of like is a business model flipping land. Right. It's like a long term play and investing in it. And this guy comes on the podcast and he's talking about flipping land just like we flipped cars, you know, dozens and dozens of properties a year with these incredible ROI.

And it just, not only did it get my attention, it just really struck a chord because it felt like, like a low barrier to entry, just because you could, you could buy properties at tax auctions for a thousand dollars, right? Might only be reselling them for 3000 or 5000. But there was really low risk, really low investment versus at that time, we were buying our plan was to buy a rental house every two years, you know, 20% down rental house every two years buy and hold. And although long term, the math penciled out, the problem was I needed my pay stubs and I needed my W-2 to buy those rental houses, which meant, you know, over 20 years, yeah, we would acquire 10 rental houses that, you know, one every two years. I had to work that darn job for the next 20 years. No doubt. That was the problem with that

plan. So for me, when I heard this land and land flipping at scale, I'm like, it really struck a chord, right? It really struck a chord with me. So at this point, I think it's good to highlight for people too, because this is where you can go two different directions. There's that stage of awareness, right? Like you become aware of something, aware of a new strategy, aware of an opportunity, and you either act on it or you don't, right? So for me, this is where I moved from awareness to becoming fanatical about learning about this new strategy of land flipping.

So I consumed every free article, every paid course, anything I could about land and land flipping. And it's also another learning point. I probably spent too long because I spent a year in the education stage, kind of that analysis paralysis. Just one more course and I'll fill in the gap. We'll fill in the hole. One more course and then I'm ready. And finally, I think it was like my wife's like, okay, not only is like rural vacant land and land in general, much more boring than talking about

houses and house flipping you know like you know what i mean she's like okay imagine that pillow talk we're talking about rural well it's not sexy dude you're missing the sex appeal of house flipping right house flipping is all over hgtv bravo you name it right flipping land yeah imagine talking about like rural vacant land at bedtime, right? Like she's like, right in the middle of Texas, like no one gets excited about that, right? No one. Now I like it as an entrepreneur and just simply like, I like, I'm a deal junkie, right? Like I want to make money. I want to flip things just like you. Right. But the reality is you lose the sex appeal. And that's a lot of the reason why people don't get into the space.

They don't have the sex appeal of remodeling a home, putting it back on the market, etc. The reason why wholesaling as a genre gets wearing on people is because, again, while you can make millions and millions of dollars, there's no sex appeal to it. You're flipping paper. It's very transactional, right? And so yeah, you lose some of that. But sounds like you've done pretty good in terms of are you just wholesaling these pieces of land? Or are you actually taking some down and utilizing it in one way or another? Yeah, so happy to answer it. So our business now looks a lot different than when I started. When we started, our goal was to buy these rural vacant land, very cheap properties,

I mean, sub $10,000 to buy them at a steep discount, like 25 cents on the dollar, and then off market or even at the time tax auction properties, then resell them for you know under market value not full market value but just under on payments and that was really the goal for us was like to sell on payments because what I saw I felt like at the time if I built up enough payments my goal was like 10,000 a month of return like recurring terms income from selling land on payments, 150 bucks at a time, right? Was my goal because what I saw was I wanted runway. You know, I wanted to buy time. I wanted to leave my job.

And I knew like if I leave my job and I go full time, I need a couple years of runway, right? So I, although it's the slow path to start, and I don't recommend people do that now for us at the time, it was like 10,000 a month. That's what was on the vision board, recurring note income, 10,000 a month, every day, every day in the journal. So that's what we built. So we built a work for like two and a half years. And we built up focusing on cheap, real vacant land and selling it on payments, buying it off market or tax auction and selling it on payments. We built up that was seller finance, recurring note income.

Okay. And then since what we realized is that we became note rich, okay. And cash poor. So my wife and I are about three years in the business we started this whole thing justin was forty five hundred dollars cash that was all like i said i had ptsd from the housing market so that's all i was willing to put in and we snowballed that over three years into 450 000 worth of notes okay which resulted in well done yeah over 10 grand a month of recurring income. Now the problem was, with that recurring income, we still had operating expenses. Once I quit my job, I've got to pay myself a salary. So I'm now cannibalizing the business instead of plowing 100% back into the business like when I had a W-2. I'm now cannibalizing the business by paying myself a salary. I still got marketing expenses like direct mail and things. So now all of a sudden I realized like, yeah, we're note rich,

but none of it's liquid, right? Like I've got to wait three months to stack up cash. And at that time, we had generated over 100 self-service notes and my wife was managing these and she's kind of like hey um i don't really know how to say this but like we don't own a land company anywhere anymore we own

a note servicing company company and i hate it right like like i hate tracking these people down for delinquent payments we were self-servicing all the notes ourself that wasn't third party because that's the courses we came up through and that's what we had learned and that's where you don't you don't have that built into the cost when you focus on cheap stuff so that's where we decided to pivot and they said okay like we need to reset redesign this company in such a way that it works for us right like we don't want to be bogged down with these managing these notes so in order to move like in order to pay somebody else to service the notes and at the time we were self-closing everything too okay so in order to move from self-closing on the buy side and the sell side and to pay somebody to service those

notes you know to build that in we needed to naturally move up in the value of properties we were targeting right so how are you targeting let's talk about how you're targeting these properties yeah absolutely yeah so we our strategy was when i first started you know keep in mind it's about 10 years ago i couldn't there wasn't a whole bunch of data sources like single user license data source to pull all this data. There's like list source, I think was maybe about it, but there was, there was some, but for land, you got to keep in mind, this is land, not houses.

Okay. So finding vacant, unimproved land, pulling that specialized list was a lot tougher. So you had to go directly to the counties and ask for either the assessor tax role and then filter out to where it was land only, or if they could give that to you. And then within a couple of years of starting, some of these big data kind of came in and started to allow you to buy a direct license to pull those lists, which all of a sudden we take all these counties and it now comes in a formatted Excel list and they all look the same from one county to the next versus the gobbledygook of

reaching out to the county directly and getting all different file formats and different columns. So that was a game changer for us. But we were, to answer your question, we were pulling the data from the county assessor role, like a CSB or an Excel file. And then we were mail merging and sending direct mail letters to off-market property owners. So I think that'll kind of tie together, help people understand how we were acquiring these these sub $20,000 properties because how the business model was introduced to us was these individuals, realtors won't take their listings. There's not enough commission in it, right?

They're kind of, it's in a sandbox that nobody's playing in because there's just not enough commission for the agents. So all these people that own these properties, they're kind of more liabilities than assets, these cheap properties. So that's- And what's your exit strategy on these? Let's talk about what you're doing. Why target these? Why are you not in single family homes anymore? Yeah. So for us, we made that decision because if I want to buy a $200,000 single family home,

I got to put 20% down, right? I got to come up with, you know what I mean? That means I got to come up with 40 grand cash. For me, if I could go buy a property for two grand, you know, and turn around and sell it for six, I could do a lot more deals, okay? In our houses, we were cashflow in about 250, you know, a door and we didn't have many doors, you know, I'm talking only a couple, right? So for me to be able to cash flow 150 a note, you know, the math just really worked out. But we had, we, as we grew, we realized, hey, we, we hit about 70 transactions a year. And that's where we realized that was like our, our sweet stress tested. And that was our breaking point internally, what we could handle without

growing. And that's when I said, well, rather than increasing the amount of transactions, let's start to do bigger deals. If we go after bigger deals, right? We know how many transactions we can do. If we go after bigger deals, there's more margin. And now we can pay title companies to close these things. We can pay agents to list these things. And it was like this beautiful, perfect storm of it is, as we moved into higher value properties, just so there was more margin in it, we found not only was land already like this blue ocean asset class that everybody wasn't in. But when you went north of 30 and $40,000 properties, that's where it was saturated was below that, because that's what all the courses were teaching, and everybody was being steered. Because that's where it was saturated was below that because that's what all the courses were teaching and everybody was being steered because that's where that was the inefficient market supposedly.

Well, and reality is, you know, I both know it's like anybody that could afford a thousand dollar course could afford a thousand dollar property, but not a hundred thousand dollar property. Right. So like the whole, like all the courses were driving everybody to these cheap properties and everybody's duking it out over table scraps on these cheap properties and then as we moved into this higher value we found as a completely blue ocean people that had never received a direct mail piece or and instead of saying yeah i've gotten 200 in the last year they had gotten like

seven you know what i mean so it like, as we targeted these higher value properties in an effort to not have to self-close or self-list and self-sell, we stumbled into this blue ocean, man, where we were making 20 grand, 40 grand a whack instead of two grand or four grand. And you're wholesaling these? A deal.

No, we're buying outright and selling cash. What's the higher ticket price? So you were selling the, you were buying at what and selling at what? Yeah. So we still with rural vacant land, it's, and this sounds absurd to other people, but it's really common to kind of, there's a rule of 50, you know it's not often that you have to cross the 50% mark on off-market land. Now, when you get in super competitive markets and metro areas, you might need to go up to 60%, right? But- 60% of what value? Full market value, yeah. Of land or the home, right? So I'll use my example in Phoenix. We'd buy a lot of infill lots.

I basically pay 25% of the ARV, meaning after the person developed the home, if they were going to sell it for 400 grand, I would need to sell it to them for about 100 grand, what left them enough margin to build the home that they needed, right? So that's ARV after the repair slash new home was built. Yeah. Are you doing cost? Meaning you're, you know, 50% of cost or after? So let's say, I think the easiest way is 25 to 50% of list price. What you would list it and resell the vacant land or lot for. There you go.

So where somebody would go 70% of ARV, right? The formula for us is like, if you're self-funding, There you go. you your targeting goes up. But for us, this introduced a new problem. You know, we bought our first property, a bigger property, we sold it, we made 20 grand. For us at the time, that was kind of like move the needle money, life changing. But then what we also realized was, we had more deals than we had capital. So that's when I had to go out and try to find money. And at the time land um there's kind of a stigma with land right it's not the same as houses and that land was viewed as more of a liability if you get stuck holding it from a hard money lender's perspective it was like oh man land doesn't move that was just like the land doesn't move i don't want land so after i'd read all these books on private money, raising private money and all this other people's money, I put together my cute little pitch decks. And I'm like

trying to get money from these hard money Leonard, everybody, as soon as they said the word land, they're like, no. Right. So, so that was like a lot of no's right. Like anything you hear a lot of no's as an entrepreneur trying something, but I'm i'm like new we couldn't scale if we didn't we didn't crack this nut you know so i continued to kind of troll forums and post and ask and then finally found some people in the space that were they were doing deals themselves but had a lot more capital to work with and they preferred to put up the money and then split profits then like run a direct mail business and a land flipping business. So you ran the business, they put up the money and it was a good strategic partnership.

It was an incredible, it was a game changer for us. And it allowed us to scale much like a wholesaler. As you know, when you're not buying outright and waiting for the property to resell, to realize your profits, to reinvestvest you're hamstrung you're limited when you're using your own money you're hamstrung by how much money you got so for us when we brought in other people's money for our property acquisition costs it was like sky's the limit this can like i can take this it's only limited based on my inputs or my efforts right so now all of a sudden i got this outside money like so as many deals as i can get and they'll fund for me i can do so for us

have you ever had to take any lemons where you fund a piece of land and it just doesn't sell i have not because i'm i'm so i'm so conservative man i am so conservative that we take slam dunks and layups, right? We just don't- What would be considered a slam dunk piece of land? So like, let's say a lot, we will get prior to purchasing, we reach out to an owner. They say, yes, I'm interested in selling. We run comps. We get two agent opinion of values,

two different specialized land agent opinion of values to do something I call triangulating, like triangulate against our own opinion of value. And with those two other opinion of values in our own, I feel pretty confident in the value we've established? I stack the odds in my favor. Then if I'm buying at 50% of that established market value, I'm not playing the house game, which I had in the past of like buying based on assumed appreciation, right? Or buying based on like assumed sold price. You know, like I'm honestly, I'm capturing equity. You know what I'm saying? I'm capturing equity.

I'm not having to add value later to make the deal work. So I think anytime you're capturing any, whether you're buying a watch or- So it's an equity play, right? You're into it for 50% of the actual deal. And now how do you find the buyer? That's the last question. I know everyone, okay, great. Where's the buyer come from? How do you find that buyer? That's the last question. I know everyone. Okay, great.

Where's the buyer come from? How do you find that buyer? And why didn't it sell already? Right. So it's so interesting when you talk to these people, these sellers, sometimes it's, you go, well, why don't you just list it with an agent, right? Like if they go, well, I want more than your, cause obviously not everybody let just to set expectations, because I like to be real here. Let's say 1% of all people on your direct mail list actually respond to your letter. Okay. 99% don't even call you back at all. Okay. 1% respond. And then let's say every 30 or 40 of your leads, you actually buy the property. Okay. And make, you know, just to set expectations there when you're talking with these sellers and I'm a decade into this. So between buyer and

seller calls, I'm somewhere at nine or 10,000 calls from what I can figure, but people will, like when you ask, it's amazing. You'll hear some people, well, we listed at once. And what happened was it sat for 10 or 12 months. The listing expired. The land didn't move. And then you look back at the history and you find out why was the maybe the agent like listed it for top dollar or, you know, like a home. Sometimes agents, rather than have that that hard conversation of saying, hey, look, Mr. Homeowner, you want too much. Let's list at a price that this will move. Agents tend to just say, well, they think in terms of, hey, look, Mr. Homeowner, you want too much. Let's list at a price that this will move. Agents tend to just say, well, they think in terms of, well, I'm going to get commission. So the more it sells for, the better for me. I'll list it whatever you want. And then after it

doesn't move, we'll do a price improvement, right? Well, you know what I mean? So you've got a number of these people who actually have listed in the past and either had a house agent that didn't understand land, didn't get land, didn't know how to position it. Right. Or it just didn't move. So now they've got this bias towards agents and they're like, these agents are lazy. You know, they can't get property sold. So that could be a reason. There's just so many different. Where's the buyer? I think was the question I was going to. Like, how do you get that sold now? Why does the seller? Yeah.

So we 100% now, we leverage land agents for us. So it's MLS. We 100% leverage land agents unless we have relationships with builders in that market, right? And then we might reach out direct to them and save ourselves the commission and and be able to give it to them for six to ten percent less as well but um yeah as we know in this market you know buyers have kind of pumped a break so quite transparently or you know honestly the source to builder play is kind of on pause right now in this market but we're we're using 100%

land agents and that's like there's a distinction between somebody that that understands houses and land okay so you got to find land agents that have sold comps and get land and that's who you want to list with and then then you're leveraging their huge buyer list in that reach of the MLS. Because although there's some incredible land flipping sites, the reality is if you brought them up split screen, you'd almost all of a sudden recognize an opportunity of arbitrage because the people selling for sale by owner, right, on these land flipping sites, they're not getting full market value. We're getting full market value or close to it over here on the Zillows, the Redfins, the Realtors, everywhere the agents list and it syndicates, right? The land flippers that are focused on for sale by owner selling themselves, the play is like it's a commodity.

You're cranking a high number of these selling way below market value. So there's honestly even potential just to like buy off of one platform, relist through an agent on another, you know, that's not what we do. That's not what we do, but yeah, we leverage 100% land agents to answer your question. And then, and then we really rely on like good onsite photography. Um, and then we still in this market, especially like we still generate leads and drive leads to the agent in addition to them just listing it. So there's obviously a bunch of questions that you and I can ping pong back and forth and get granular about the land stuff.

But what I think is an easier play is to have people, I know you give away a ton for free. And I think it's just at travisking.com. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. So when I started, I felt like as I was exploring and learning about this, it was like every question you asked was like, well, you got to buy the course, right? You know, but so for me, I was always like, as we as I moved from helping people in forums and as we moved from being like powerhouse investors, I started helping people in forums and communities. I was in one on one, one at a time and they would get results. Right. And then they would want to partner on deals. organically grew into like this consulting business and education business that, and that's where we're at today, right? As we run, in addition to investing, we run an education business. And then as we solved our own problems of finally solving that money problem, we did enough deals and we're able to stack enough cash, right? That now we can fund other people's deals. So in addition

to like investing, we have our education business and we have a funding company. But I said, hey, if I'm ever gonna teach this or coach people, like it's not gonna be all gated content. I wanna give you as much as I can for free so that you can at least kind of like explore and get oriented without having to buy the course, right?

So if people go to travisking.com, we have one, we have an informational webinar too. We have a seven day land flipping challenge that is going to, you know, after seven days, you're going to be oriented on this asset class and this opportunity. If you can stick with me through day one, cause I hammer you on mindset and day one, and you might be saying, Hey, when are we going to talk about land? But day two through seven are all about land. But kind of our qualifier is day one where I hit you with mindset

because it's been, as we talked about earlier, like me getting bit bad with houses and taking a long time to get back into real estate investing. The most important real estate you'll come to learn is like the real estate between the left ear and the right ear, right? So I do hit you with some mindset, but if you check out travisking.com, we've got a free seven-day land flipping challenge that I think is the best spot for people that land sounds like something they want to pursue.

Right on. Well, guys, go to travisking.com. If land is the way you want to pursue real estate there's a lot of different hustles in real estate you can wholesale you can flip you can do creative financing burr model you name it apartment complexes commercial land being one of them if that is of interest to you go to travisking.com brother i appreciate you spending some time here at the science of flipping glad you're here there's a lot of different avenues and you're proving that land is a successful avenue for those that want to take it so thank you for showing up absolutely i appreciate you and i want people to know that um it doesn't have to just be land or houses or land verse houses you can marry these right land is a high

cash flowing business model so you can marry that with like the burr strategy it's incredible right um so yeah it's never it's never an or it's always an and right you can do all of it yeah absolutely so absolutely appreciate your time man and hope your listeners got got a lot out of this appreciate the message you're delivering to everybody it's inspiring and people just need to know that wherever you are whatever you you're listening to, if you're on a commute to work, man, it's the difference, though, between awareness and action. Because as Justin knows, there's no shortage of information, but there is like an absolute shortage of action and execution. And that's what you need to do. Right on, dude. Well, thank you again. Appreciate it. TravisKing.com,

everybody. I'll see you guys on the next episode. Peace. All right. Appreciate you, Justin.