The Science of Flipping - From Homeless and on Drugs to Raising Over a Billion Dollars | John Fernando

Episode Date: September 4, 2026

Most people in real estate have never heard of mineral rights investing and most people who have heard of John Fernando's story still don't believe it. In this episode of The M.O.R.E. Show, Justin Colby sits down with John Fernando, who went from homelessness, drug addiction, and couch surfing to raising over a billion dollars in capital through oil and gas mineral rights. John walks through the exact mindset shift that changed everything for him, how he discovered the mineral rights space when almost nobody else was in it, why mineral rights are one of the most overlooked and undervalued asset classes in all of real estate, and the single phrase delayed obedience is disobedience  that he credits with turning his entire life around. KEY TOPICS COVERED: John Fernando's full story from drug addiction and homelessness to raising billions in capital What mineral rights are, why they are separate from surface rights, and why most people never think about them How John built a business in a space where almost nobody else was operating Why oil and gas mineral rights represent a massive overlooked opportunity for real estate investors The mindset principle of delayed obedience that John learned at a Christian boot camp and applied to business How to find, evaluate, and acquire mineral rights deals across the country ️ TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 — Delayed obedience is disobedience  the story that made John a millionaire 01:16 — Introduction: John Fernando's journey from the streets to billions raised 02:00 — From drug addiction and homelessness to the turning point. 03:10 — The Christian boot camp that changed everything. 07:00 — Discovering mineral rights and why nobody else was in the space. 15:00 — How mineral rights work and why they are separate from surface rights. 25:00 — How to find and acquire mineral rights deals. 35:00 — The oil and gas market right now and where the opportunity is. 45:00 — Building a team and scaling a mineral rights operation. 55:00 — The boardroom level of capital raising in this space 58:00 — Door knocking for mineral rights — including the shotgun stories 01:00:19 — Where to find John Fernando Connect with John Fernando: Website: www.firethornholdings.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

One of the stories that made me a millionaire, there was a guy out scrubbing a rock with a toothbrush when I first walked up. And he'd been out there for like two days. I didn't know what he was doing, but it sounded like he was talking to himself. So about 18 days goes by. He's out there from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. every day. So he sits by me at lunch and I said, what are you doing out there? And he goes, well, I got in trouble for lusting. I said, how long do you have to be out there?

He goes, I don't know. I go, they haven't told you? He was like, no. And so days go by. I'm playing devil's advocate. I was like, dude, you need to get out of here. This is nuts. I mean, you're 45 days in, and you don't know when this is going to end.

So on day 52, the guy that let him off, which later, both of them became two of my best friends, he walks over with, like, his toothbrush, his rock, and hands it to him. And I was like, you need to run down to the women's home and get some sugar. And he didn't speedwalk, he didn't jog. It was dead sprint. When he came back, I said, why did you do that? That was like a figure of speech. He goes to delayed obedience, his disobedience.

And when he taught me that right there, that teaching, when I went into business after I'd left, I just was about delayed obedience, disobedience, so anything my boss told me, short of sin, I just did it. The Moore Show family, we are back with another incredible guest. This guest went from surfing couches, meaning broke bust and disgusted, all the way to raising billions of dollars in just a short two years. Now, always, these episodes are brought you by The Moore Club. So if you want access to individuals like I have here, then you want to be a part of the Moore Club. Go to timeformore.com. Make sure you're in the club so you can have access to guests like this.

All right, I have John Fernando here with me. I'm super excited about this as you went from a extreme state of broke, busted, and disgusted, to in a short couple years, raising billions of dollars. Well, it took time to raise billions of dollars. But first of all, thanks for having me on the show. It took two years after I was, well, was on drugs. Yeah, and kept surfing homeless. Two years after that is when I became a millionaire,

but it took probably another 10, 11 years to raise my first billion. Yeah, I was going to say two years to raise a billion is, I'm not even sniffing a billion. I've done this for 20 years. Now, I want to get into this. Yeah, I mean, I've been in this game for about 20 years now, and I'm not, I don't think I'm sniffing a billion dollars and raised. So for you to be one extreme and kind of lost,

financially broken and even doing drugs to 10 years later having a billion under the belt. Let's start with this. I think there's a lot of listeners and a lot of viewers that maybe aren't as extreme as your story. Yeah. But they're lost. They're trying to figure it out. They're trying to grow a business. They're trying to raise some capital. They're just trying. I want them to hear a little bit more of your story because I think they can grasp like anyone can do this, right? That's the idea. So talk to us a little bit about that background and what was the transition over into Transition, okay. Yeah, it was on, so I was on all sorts of drugs.

And on 9-9 of 09, I went to a, really like a Christian boot camp. And so they were extremely hard on me. And I started to learn little tidbits that they would teach me along the way. And so pretty much, one of the stories that made me a millionaire, there was a, and this will sound crazy to a lot of your viewers, but it was, there was a guy out scrubbed, being a rock with a toothbrush when I first walked up. And he'd been out there for like two days. And so I didn't know what he was doing, but it sounded like he was talking to himself.

And so about 18 days goes by, he's out there from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. every day. And so he sits by me at lunch, and I said, what are you doing out there? And he goes, well, I got in trouble for lusting. And I said, well, what do you, how long do you have to be out there? He goes, I don't know. I go, they haven't told you? He was like, no. And so days go by.

And I mean, I'm playing devil's advocate. I was like, dude, you need to get out of here. This is nuts. I mean, you're 45 days in, and you don't know when this is going to end. So on day 52, the guy that let him off, which later, both of them became two of my best friends, he said, I need you to run. He walks over with, like, his toothbrush, his rock and hands it to him. And the guy was like, I need to run, you need to run down to the women's home and get some sugar.

And he didn't speedwalk. He didn't jog. It was dead sprint. When he came back, I said, why did you do that? That was like a figure of speech. He goes, delayed obedience is disobedience. And when he taught me that right there, that teaching, when I went into business after I'd left, I just was about delayed obedience as disobedience.

So anything my boss told me, short of sin, I just did it. And so when he learned that I worked that way, he ended up, I became one of the top leasing agents for Chesapeake Energy. in the Barnat Shale. And so I was averaging 46 leases a month and the average person was doing eight. And so when there was a big project come on, he asked me, even though I wasn't, I hadn't been with the company

as long as other people. And I got upset about it. And I said, why did you pick me? And he goes, because I know whatever I tell you to do, it would get done. And so it was about a $2 billion project, and it's kind of hard to explain to anybody who's not been in the oil business,

but it's called a trespass track. And so they don't have to drill two wells and they can just drill one. You have to get every house that goes through the trespass track. So it's called a Rule 7. It's called Rule 20, Rule 31. So I did that in that project. And when that all happened when I went, I was sitting at the, when this all went down, one day and how that little bit of backstory after this,

I was sitting there one day and it was just normal day. And all of a sudden all the managers started getting. getting their suits and things on. Before we dive in, I want to talk to you about L of S Capital. If you're looking to build passive income through multifamily real estate, L of S gives you access to exclusive apartment investments that aren't available to the public. If you want to diversify beyond stocks and create real cash flow, visit L ofScapital.com. To learn more and to get on the investor list, I personally invest with L of S Capital,

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visit LovS.com. Now let's get to the show. And they brought the Chesapeake team was coming in. And so they never wore suits. So they come. come in, they're like, well, we're not here to see you. We're here to see Bobby Fernando. Yeah. And so, and I said, I thought I was going to get fired for something. I didn't know what it was. So they brought me back there. And they're like, how do you do it? They go, how to do

what? I said, how do you get 46 leases and everybody else? I said, well, I cheat. I said, how do you cheat? I said, I work, I work on seven days a week. Everybody else up here works five, if they worked that. Yeah. Because all they had to do is get eight leases not to get fired for the month. Yeah. Well, I just decided to just try to get as many as I could because I'd been in that ministry and I was selling bread on the corner for them. I mean, so when somebody was going to pay you to do it as opposed to doing it for free, it's quite that you feel real grateful. So it gave me great perspective where everybody else was entitled. And so they, I said, that's when they told me I was going to run the SWAT. And they said, you know, once they told me, you know, they're like,

well, why do you work seven days a week and only get paid? for five. I go, well, there's no one else in this building talking to you right now, is there? And then they're like, wow. So the deal- How are you when you're in this meeting? I was probably 30. I was probably 30. 30. And so they sent, I got through the whole SWAT unit. And we are down to, I was only supposed to deliver 60%. We'd actually are going to deliver a hundred. And what is SWAT? So SWAT's where you have to go by each individual house that the drill bit goes through. And you have to get every house in that drill bit truck, because, If you don't, somebody holds up and doesn't do it, they have to drill two wells.

You know, wells are about $10 million. So they got to drill both ways. So it was real important. They needed a 60%. I wanted to deliver 100. They thought I was nuts. And so I ended up getting down to the very last house. There was 167 of them.

We had 166. And this guy goes, I want you to go to that house and just stay there until you can get it. Well, that was a direct order. So I just packed up my stuff with the toilet paper. this and that. He calls me out. He goes, you know, like three days later, or it was 42 hours later, he calls me up and said, hey, have you seen him? I was like, no, he hadn't come yet. He goes, he's coming at night. And I go, you're not coming at night. He was like, how do you know? I go, I've been here for 42 hours. And he was like, what? And he's like, you've been there for

42 hours? I was like, yeah, that's what you told me to do. So anyways, I stayed there for 73 or 74 hours at 3 o'clock in the morning. Gosh, finally shows up. I was so relieved that he showed up. So I went to his driveway and got him signed up. Called the guy at 3 o'clock in the morning because he told me to call him if I ever got it. I did. He was like, dude, if you'll do that for $275 a day, please go start your own company and I will make sure you have work. So I later got that. He gave me 10 guys. Then I morphed and got another like 40 from another company called Gulfport. We went to 80. and then it ended up we were doing we had about 162 guys within my first four months of starting that company so I went from making 300 275 to 325 a day to about 27,000 dollars a day within 120 days that's that began there's so much time pack yeah so you go into this rehab center which is heavily Christian weighted oh yeah is that fair very very all it's all

free, but imagine 92 people in a 5,000 square foot house. That's what it's like. Whoa. Yeah, I slept on the floor on an egg crate for my final 90 days being inside that house. So I'm going to remove the business for a second. Go ahead. I think one of the things I've seen sitting in my seat and I've interviewed some really impressive people, you yourself or one of them. Everyone has some level of dark days, weeks, months, even years. But you can't see the light. without the darkness. Yeah. You can't create what you became without going through the depths of hell.

Yeah. I actually believe that. Now, not just because of my own stories, I've now had 13 years of interviewing individuals who have done some really impressive things, some more than others. But if you don't go through what you went through in your mid to late 20s, maybe even early 30s,

I don't think you become the version of you are today. Never would have. Never. Uh-uh. You talked about entitlement, right? You talked about everyone else, you know, entitled. Everyone worked five days a week.

Yeah. You took it upon yourself to work seven. Yeah. Because you knew the other side of that. You knew it wasn't always guaranteed. You knew that... I would say that one of the things that all drug addicts are, they have a...

There's some problem with the father. Never met a drug addict that's not a have a father problem. So, but I had a performance father. And when you're a performance person, you're highly competitive. And so it's not even fair for somebody who's normal to go up against a performance, ADHD person.

It's not, it's like, because that person thinks when he fails that no one loves them. And other people are just normal with like, okay, I just didn't do well, I'll just write that awful.

The two mindsets can't be compared because one guy will kill to win. It's kind of like, yeah, then a normal person. Even kill themselves. They will kill themselves. The Will Smith quote,

if you get on side of the treadmill next to me, two things are going to happen. You're going to get off first or I'm going to die. That's it. And that's what you think about. Like, if I don't succeed, you think you're worthless. You don't think you're going to make it. And you just, that mindset, which is not the healthiest in some situations.

For sure. If I was a psychoanalyst, then I'd probably be. Yeah. You know. Oh, it's terrible in marriage. So I've had to really learn how to dial that down because I'm all about, I'm going to tried to win at all costs, even if I'm wrong. So I've had to have a lot of therapy for that. There you go. There you go. But no, that was, but that's the, when you have that,

you're engaged that way your whole life. That's how you think about, that's how you attack sports. So you're really good at sports. And then you're really good at business once you learn, learn how to make, you know, be healthy about it. So you said something I think is super imperative. The performance aspect. And you're not good enough unless you win. and you're not good enough and everyone hates you and that whole thing. I think that's more common than people realize.

I think a lot of it is people don't go out and go attempt to do what you did for kind of that fear of if I fail I'm not good enough and everyone's going to ridicule me and everyone's going to make fun of me. Were you able to mute that in your head

or did you just literally have a shoulder shrug I don't give a fuck and I'm just going to go? No, I changed the fear. And the way I altered it was you know, when you're first are about to make the jump to be an entrepreneur. That's like the scariest job. But once I had a mentor teach me that

he goes, which is scary you're making the jump to entrepreneurs or being 80 years old looking back saying, I wish I could have done that. I wish I could have taken the swing. And once I changed my mindset to that, it was easy. Because I was like, I have nothing to lose.

I mean, I don't have any possessions. And so it's like, let's just go take the jump. Let's go do it. And I had a thousand. We both started with a thousand bucks, me and a partner. And he, luckily, he knew about business. And I didn't know it. But I knew how to make money, but he knew how to keep it.

And so he was really valuable in my life teaching me how to do business because I didn't, didn't know anything about business up to that point. Dude, this is, so there's another thing you just talked about. You had your boss, effectively, it sounds like, said if you're willing to do this for $275 a day, you need to go start your own company. Yeah. I just made a post, I think, yesterday the day before, where I literally said the people who are beyond you, the people that have more success in you, more money than you, they're never the ones that ridicule you. They're never the ones that judge you. In fact, they're usually

the ones that grab your hand and say, just keep going. Yeah. How meaningful was it for that guy to say, I could keep my MVP and he'll go crush it from me and get 100% of these homes all the time or I'm going to go lift you up on a pedestal, give you the confidence, give you the people because you deserve to go run your own business. No, it's huge, you know. And that was the main thing is most of the people, I switched the crowds, you know, the main. So when I started hanging around people who are, and it's amazing, you still see it all the time.

You go out to dinner with some people, they're sitting around talking about people. Then you got the other guys, you know, when I go, when I'm around guys like you or other people, they're talking about dreams, goals, and ambitions. That's all they're talking about. They don't talk about... They're not gossiping. They're not talking about... Well, I don't think I can make it.

Purple shorts today. Yeah. Who does he think he is? By the way, I love your shorts, bro. Thank you so much. Yeah. I didn't know if I should wear... That's another thing.

Men don't give each other compliments. Yeah. I love the glasses, bro. Like, I give compliments. My wife would be like, why did you say that to that guy? I'm like, because he looks good in that suit. Yeah.

That's a good-looking suit. I wish I'd get bald, then I wouldn't have to do my hair. I got a big head, though, so it's a walk. It's pretty, I don't know. I mean, it's just, doesn't look. I say you come to a boardroom one time. My wife would shoot me.

My wife would shoot me if I shaved it. Oh, God. But, yeah, I'd say that that's when you start, you know, when I started, I got in early on the John Maxwell. They taught me that. That was my first exposure to leadership. I ran 21 air futable laws of leadership. I read Ridge Dad, Poor Dad. And that's kind of started the cycle because my, you know, my mom and dad didn't teach me any about.

business. My mom was an entrepreneur, but I really didn't learn much from her. I learned a lot from my grandfather. He was CEO of Noble Energy and chairman of the board of the noble or noblem, chairman of the board of Nobel Energy and CEO of the Noble Foundation. So I learned from him. He's in Oklahoma Hall Fame. So I learned a lot of my business from him. But I would say predominantly, I learned all my business from my partner. And I just picked a really good partner. I knew, since I was two, we're still partners to this day. No kidding. Yeah.

I mean, I want everyone to understand how unique that is. I've gone through a handful of partners. And it's a marriage. And if you guys aren't aligned, it is very difficult. It is. There's been some very, very difficult times. Of course. And we've owned probably nine companies together.

We only own two right now together. So you've had seven either unwind or something. And listen, all that's not all puppy dogs and rainbows. Even if you exited some of those companies, great but it's still you're still going through it I bought him out of some of them and then the ones that were still a part of mostly there were different funds that we did to buy minerals and so those just ended because we switched to a different model yeah but the price of oil kind of changes our the structure of

how we did it and different partners were coming on so but we still own one that does I mean honestly it only owned strip moles right now so it's we flipped from minerals into buildings. I love that. I mean, so funny enough, I've been asked to go keynote down in Orange County to a tax strategist group. So the guy putting on the Carlton Dennis is putting on his event and his whole thing is tax strategy. I love the fact that you're in oil and minerals and you're in real estate. I mean, I think there's that diversification in a general sense. I think you can't go wrong, right? One may be bigger in the other one year. One may be bigger in the other the other year. You exit, that you do something else.

It gives you opportunities. So are you leaning more into that these days? Well, I leaned because my, I was kind of shocked before, um, I really didn't know much about offsetting the taxes. And so that's been something new that I've,

uh, we've been learning. So we did it by 1031. We used to do a whole bunch of those, but I didn't realize like that was part of the reason for just joining, um, board room. Yeah.

In the first place, because I needed to learn that. I tried all facets. I've bought, you know, the houses. I've bought the commercial buildings. And I wasn't really very good at it. Yeah. So I knew that I needed somebody to teach me.

I knew how to buy the minerals, and I knew how to sell those, but I didn't know how to flip into something that it was actually a good investment. Yeah. So that was another learning experience for me. So it's been, we've, you know, we recently hired a tax strategist.

We haven't, we haven't, but most of the time I was paying these. just really, really big tax bills and just thought that was just the way life was. And not until I sat down with a group of six people and none of them paid taxes.

And I was like, how do you do that? Yeah. Like, I need to know. So they've been teaching me along the way. So I have a lot to learn with many things as far as that goes.

I think you all do. I want to get back to your boss, I guess, effectively, who kind of gave you that permission, if you will, say, go do your own thing, dude.

Yeah. You're special. Yeah. You're a unicorn. out here. Do you still talk to that guy today? Do you in your world at all? No. He's not. No. So it went from, I got on his project. I was in western Oklahoma and the Texas Panhandle working for Chesapeake. And then company Gulfport called, and that is probably

the call that really changed the life because, and it went bad at first. It was kind of shocking, but I got on this project and I had to be there. They called me on a Friday. And they need to needed five guys in St. Clairsville, Ohio, by Monday morning. And I'm like, God, this is a big ass. Yeah. Like, these guys have to pick up and move out there. Yeah. So anyway, I found a sub-broker that could do it. And so he went out there and started around title, but the numbers were wrong. So he said there were seven-year guys. Seven-year guys pull about 80 books a day. Um, this, these guys were pulling like 20. So I knew there was a problem. So I drove up there with the whole family. I mean, just like got a car,

drives in St. Clairsville, Ohio. I was like, I don't know if it is, but it's a long ways. Anyway, I walk in the courtroom house and I say, who in here works for grasslands? So they come out there and they're like, who are you? I'm like, the owner? And I said, why are y'all taking so long

on this title? And they're like, we've never done this before. And I was like, uh-oh. So at that point, I knew we had billed the client for seven-year guys, and these guys were brand new, which was unethical. But what I didn't know in business, I told my partner, I was like, we got to tell these guys. He said, Bobby, they have to fire us. They're publicly traded. Right. And so I said,

well, I don't care if we're going to get fired. We're going to get fired. I said, but I got to tell him. So I called the head landman, senior landman. His name was Bill Ishaid. I said, Bill, here's what happened. He goes, Bobby, just, I want you to take everything you just told me and act like, you never happen. Never happened. And I was like, no, no, I don't think what you do. I'm trying to be really honest here. He's like, Bobby, they have to fire you. And I like really like you. And I said, well, you just go in and do it anyway. So he had to go to the, it was a board meeting that day. So we like waited on like pins and needles. And he gets out of that room. And about four hours later, I said, I see the phone light up. And I'm like, here we go. And so he goes, I go,

well, did they fire you? Fire me? He goes, you know, I did exactly what you told me to do. And he goes, mostly all the board room board one of the fire you except for one and that one of them was a preacher that was asked to be on their board his name is Craig rochelle he he owns life church um he's from oklahoma and he thought that it was such high character that i told them that that he called he was like let's keep him and i he was like this isn't the best part the best part is he wants you to add 40 more so i added 40 more wow two weeks later another group lied to him and they gave me their 40 so now I've got 85. That's how it all began. That gives me shivers

because all you did was the right thing. Yep. You didn't do anything impressive. Yeah. This is so hard for people to understand these days. Just do the next right thing. Another post, I just made this post like a week ago. There's a movie Frozen.

My kids are still young, so I'm still in Disney World, right? And Anna, the secondary main character Elsa, she goes through this moment of like, what do I do? And she starts singing a song about doing the next right thing. It's so hard these days for business owners, men, to just do the right thing.

Yep. But when you do that, more often than not, results like you just experience happen. I tell my son that all the time. I said, if you can just deliver it in your word in today's time and age, you're above 99% of everybody. All day. How old is your son?

He's 19. Love that. So I said, don't. And that's the biggest thing for me. This is how I judge a person. I don't care about anything. I don't care how much money they make. I don't care how much money they have.

I don't care if they have $10 billion. If their word, if their name isn't more valuable than the deal, I don't do business with it. Period. If they ever like don't call and don't, like, if they're late and they apologize, great. But if they ever, like, they do things to where you can tell that the money is more valuable than the name, I don't do business.

So I believe in this thing, and I'm talking a lot about like people's identity. Yeah. The saver has now been connected to the identity as a saver. The identity of a rich person or a wealthy person is now connected to that. And when you get connected to being the rich person, you've raised $2 billion north of $2 billion. You probably don't even know the exact number. And you look like a very normal human being. You're not in here with all the brand names.

you're not in here with you wear a nice watch but you're not in here with the you know 250,000 dollar could you afford it damn sure you could I wouldn't even know what to buy for two watch for 250,000 I'll be nervous about it oh 100% but my point to that is the identity part of this so when you talk about someone caring more about their deal than their name yeah it's because their name is attached and their identity is attached to being rich sure to being the deal guy to having these big wins. And that is a hard thing to unwind the later you on get in life. Yeah. I'd say that we have asked a question that tells us their identity right off. I said, you know, if you were going to ask, I was going to ask them one question.

This is probably my biggest qualifying question. Who would you say you are? And somebody who's like, if you ask that Tim Tebow, it's going to be a man of God. It's going to be man of God. I love my wife. I love my kid. It's going to be in critical order. But when you ask somebody who's out of whack, they're going to talk about their business first. That's exactly what somebody that's insecure is going to talk about, their businesses, their identity. So that question is so simple, but it tells me their identity just like that. Funny you said that.

So I wrote down the three things at top of mind without you asking that. This weekend, father, husband, friend. It was that easy for me to realize, like, in priority. Now, I don't know whether I get judged because I'm not a husband then a father, but right now my kids are so little that, like, it's literally all I think about is these little kids. I'm just enjoying the daylights out of them. They're only young. You have a 19, you know, everyone says the same thing.

They're that old for such a fucking small time. It's crazy how small that time is. So it's. So I literally in order, father, husband, father, husband, friend. And that's who my identity. Now, funny enough, I'm a business owner and I run multiple businesses. And I'm a leader and I have employees.

But I don't even put that into my definition right now. Yeah. Because it's not really what I'm about. It's what I do. Yeah. No, I call it the pillars. So you have either five, six, or seven pillars of things that are strategically in line. So, you know, in all these things, if they're, they have to be attended to daily.

But they're always in order. So I try to, I think you can watch a person's habits in the morning. So I make my habits just like, I'm like four o'clock in the morning. I'm going to be out of bed for sure, probably sometimes between 3.30. And then I'm going to get up. And the first thing I'm going to do is pray. And then the second thing I'm going to go work. And I meet almost the entire, all the pillars before I walk out the door.

So God first, my wife, second, the kids third, fourth would be, you know, I've got health with, I put health with God, because if you're dead, it didn't really matter anyways. And so, and then right after that is, you know, business and ministry. And so helping people is part of what ministry is for me. So those five things, and I try to do them daily, because when I experience sort of inside that home, I pretty much have just lived for me, which leads. to depression and all this. Amen. And once I learned to live and help other people,

I love watching them elevate. Like people that work with you, people you see all the time. When you get to see them, when the light bulb comes on, like this is how you do it. You need to build a big community. And we haven't even talked about what you do, which is crazy.

We're just geeking out on life. But you need to build a community, man, because you just have that heart and you have the, like, making impact on people. You're not being selfish. You just said it. If you do everything with sin,

what's in the home, you're living for selfish purposes. That's it. Yeah. But you have so much to offer the world, right? And I'm so happy that you're here. But I do want to let people know what you do. I'm sure. Right?

I mean, raising billions of dollars. And again, you and I were joking off camera. It's like, Grant has raised $2 billion. I'm, are you north of $2 billion? Are you around that number? Where do you think you are? I'm north of $2 billion. But no one knows.

But we've raised, yeah, two, we raised $2 billion just this year alone. Yeah, no one knows who I am. But that's got to change. Some of my neighbors don't know who I am. And it's not because you need to go flex. It's because you have something to offer. That's the value. You've done something that is so unique and so special.

That if I can empower you and help you do that, it's needed. But talk to us about what you raise your money for. So you're in oil, you're in land, minerals. The first few funds. So I didn't know how to do all that, obviously, when you come from my background. I didn't see your idea how to do it. So I hired Paul Martinelli, which is John Maxwell's right handman at first, to teach me how to talk. You know, and I started learning about the words that, you know, that they were going to use.

And he gave me this list of everything. So, you know, I tried, I probably tried like 10, and I didn't succeed. And then we got a small deal with a private equity group, but I didn't like private equity because they kind of put your thumb on your head. So then all of a sudden, and I'd probably only raised like 200 million so far. And this is when? This took all the way from like probably 2015 and 2020 just to get to that point. I get a call from a bunch of Harvard guys. They're like four or five of them.

And they want to do a weird project. I didn't even know what it was. And so it was a, it's where you plug gas wells. and it creates a carbon credit because you're taking methane out of the air. So you take the well back two years. It creates, and you look at what the decline curve on those last two years were, and then you forecast it out for like 10 years. That creates a carbon credit.

So my job, I was by far the dumbest on this group. I mean, these guys were all past math 55 at Harvard. You've got guys that are like Goodwill Hunting Smart this group. Now they couldn't sell. anything. They were terrible at sales, but they were very, very sharp. They did math problems that I was like, that's really neat. We ended up raising a billion with them. I helped them because they didn't know anything about oil. Yeah. And so we ended up getting, the problem was, when we raised that first billion, it had to be passed by Congress. So we wrote the first

protocol for a methane carbon credit, and it was done with, we partnered with Rice University to do that. say like are you sitting there you know writing this or like you yeah this stuff is complex i'm i'm only on there to teach them my on my perspective on how to do the oil that's right i had zero on any equation that they did i was like i have zero idea what that means yeah so i was i had my helmet and crayons on the entire time that's right but so we raised that you know together it's it wasn't like i did that myself so later on But I learned a lot. I had to go around to all the CEOs in the nation.

And I really didn't know at that point if I had the capacity to sit in a room with these guys. Because I put somebody who's a CEO of a publicly traded company really on a pedestal. And, you know, kind of my hero growing up was Aubrey MacLendon because he did, he was huge. He was one of the biggest gas companies in the world. He was in Oklahoma City, super nice guy. So he did some deals with my grandfather. So I went this last few years when I got out of that fund We decided to do another partner approached me to do a premium finance and so

He said well we predicted it was gonna take a billion dollars to do and over the course of five years So I called five family offices All of them call me back so I do a the reason I have that access is I sell a lot of mineral deals to family offices. I was just going to say. Next question was how do you even have five family offices in your office? Sure. So all family offices usually have a mineral arm. And so, and they, they all want to have, I buy minerals. So when an oil well is about to produce, they'll have to do these filing. So it's, that goes spacing, pooling, increased density, multi-unit, permit, and then they do a, they drill. And then there's a thing.

called a duck, which is drilled an uncompleted well. That means they've drilled the well bore, but they haven't perforated and send down chemicals. That's called completing. So we buy right before it gets to those stages and sometimes on those stages. And so then we take, you can take, a lot of times I can move the effective date. So you guys are used to execution date. Well, effective date and oil and gas, if a well's been producing for two years and your mother had it in test date, which means she didn't have a will, that's called refutable. So if refutable is going to be held in suspense. Well, if I take that effective date and move it back two years, I capture all of it. So that's the difference. It would be like you capturing all the money from rent rolls for the last

two years. If it was held in suspense, we can do that in oil. They get a better price for that, but because we tell them, we're up front and tell them, hey, there's this money in suspense. For you to get it out, you've got to probate this estate and then it won't go through it. We'll just buy it out and do it itself. But we'll give you a higher number. Yeah. So anyways, I go and sell that. two different family offices around the country. And I've been doing it a long time, so it's usually a quick call. But last week, I picked up the phone, and seven minutes later, I got full ass.

I called one group. And so on the billion dollar raise, I went to a guy that I'd done oil deals, and I said, here's how it is. And most of the time, I had to move my pitch. What changed in the pitch was, like, most of these guys, like, the reason it's hard to do oil as your exposure rates are high. I mean, it doesn't even matter if you do it. They're always higher than some of these deals

that I'm getting them into. Once I learned that the exposure rate was, when I found deals that the exposure rate was less than 2%, but it could still make abundantly more than at least 4% or 5% for the investor going into 7% or 8% with almost zero risk. Now you've got something. So that's...

So exposure rate, define that for everyone because one to two percent of exposure rate sounds like a very small number. So that means like one out of something. We predict on all premium finance. And premium finance, just for people who don't know, if you have a million dollar insurance policy that has to be paid up front, we would pay 80% of it in seven days. You'd pay 20, and then you'd pay me 10 payments throughout at around 14% interest.

And so we would fund it that quick. So when we predicted, we have a guy on our team's been doing this for 30 years, we predicted about somewhere between one out of 40 and one out of 50 are going to fail. So that's my exposure rate. So when we were looking at how much of these, how many of these actually fail, we knew by the numbers. And then we validated that by using AI to see how much it failed and aligned with what you said. I want to bring some really quick perspective to the listener, viewer, one out of 50. I come, I broke my teeth and for well over a decade, I flipped homes.

there's no world where you flip 50 homes you don't lose money on something right so when you say that and investors get all like oh i don't know there's too much exposure right here to me is mind boggling yeah because in almost every sector you're going to have a way more in your words exposure rate whether you're not going to hit every stock you invest in right you're not going to hit every flip you flip i just feel like that number is still ridiculously low But in your industry, that's like the threshold of like. So when I started learning about exposure and I'm telling you, I know, 150 is so loaded.

Yeah. It was from the guy sitting in this seat. Yeah. Investors are like, well, I don't want to lose my money. I get all that. But like. Yeah, once I started learning about exposure and being around people, that's what they talked about, that was kind of a, you know, probably 10 years ago, I started like,

people started saying, you know, my exposure and this and that. So I started really dialing in. And so the way I built the oil company, I mean, we've done honestly probably 32, 3,400 deals. And I think my last count, we've lost money on less than 10. So we know the numbers really, really well. I do not ever go. We only buy in like three or four counties. And we are dialed in on those numbers.

Plus I already know what the guys are going to pay at the end of the rainbow. So I know exactly how to buy it. and we don't get it. You know, I think all money's made on the purchase, just like everyone else. But when I went to go start raising money for this premium finance, I didn't know what premium finance was. My partner told me all about it. And I was like, I think I could raise this.

It doesn't have much of exposure rate. And I started researching it. It took me about nine months. And then I brought it in front of five groups. I called five phone numbers that day out of the five phone numbers. Three of them called back. The first one said, It took about a week for them that I had to go and show them the presentation and this and that.

Took a week. First guy called back and said, I'll do it. I can go up to a billion. And so I started calling the other ones back. Two of them came in with $500 million. But the guy in the first position, I called him back. I said, hey, these other groups went $500 million. He was like, I won't do it if they're in.

So just go ahead and tell them to we'll have to back them out. So I backed the other two groups at $500 million out. And so that's held out. So now I'm actually raising $500 million for another, which is a real estate fund. So we're going to shift either the primary investor or one other investor into those roles. So I haven't engaged them yet. I engaged. I briefly gave one of them a 30,000 foot view. But I'm going to probably raise that in the next month. And when you go after. So for those out there raising money. Yeah. Well, there's fixing flips, oil, land. $500 million for you. How many calls does that take? Who do you go after? Family office only.

You're not going after the accredited investor who has $100,000 ready to invest. That too small. Well, you put yourself in liability. So when you got some, well, even though they're accredited, if I put an accredited person in an oil deal, that just because he's accredited, but he's ignorant to the fact that he doesn't know what he's investing in, you're going to get sued. Yeah. And so if you fail. Now, if you go, I saw I look at the groups that actually know something about this stuff. And then I go after go to. Because they're educated. Because that's where you limit your your your risk as the owner and the operator. Are you are you considered the operator as well? Um, no on the, um, well, right now I am, but we're about to make a change on that. So I'm bringing in people who will that are but way better than me. Yeah. And then I'll just pretty much raise capital for different things.

So in all my years of business, I've finally, I have to get my teeth kicked in enough, realized control versus ownership is everything. Yeah. What you're either transitioning into or you're already there, I will forever only control apartments. I will only control the assets. I am done owning and I'm done saying I'm the operator. Yeah. Our friend Jerry Stadam. Yeah.

Very clear to me, Justin Colby. You are not the operator. Yeah. It's a tough pill to swallow when you've operated your whole life. But God, he has given me a blessing that I did. And literally it was like a throwaway comment. We have the board of directors meetings where it's just like the 10 of us or 12 of us, whatever. And, you know, Stadom's like, oh, Colby, you're, you know, throw away.

And I go, I'm going to hold that for a second. Right? And it's changed my trajectory of the last two years. I mean, it's literally like, oh, yeah, fuck operating. Yeah. Now, I don't want to take away from someone who's in that world. No. But I will tell you, if you can move closer to where you are, John, or where I'm at now, control of it and going and raising capital and controlling that or being a money manager versus finding the deal, analyzing the deal, operating the deal, firing, hiring. Oh, my God. Oh, you know, that was the biggest learn I've probably had a long time is, you know, there's the consumer, there's the investor or the operator, and then there's the banker.

And once I learned that I was in the wrong seat. That's right. That was, and there's, you know, a book that I read that was recommended as the Bankers Code. Yeah. Great book. That's not talked enough, by the way. Yeah, it's a, and you don't think of it that way because if you think when you're an entrepreneur or investor, you really think you're in the greatest position ever. Of course.

They're giving me 6% on this loan. Yeah. I'm taking them to the bank on this deal. So, and so once you really think about. the bank's position and they just never lose. It's control. Yeah. So it was and once I got out of the, you know, it's hard when you're insecure like I was

to not want to be in like the operation control aspect, but to know that you're in a better controlling step, just moving up here with less headache. You know what's funny. And I'll speak to myself and maybe you're going to empathize. It was big for my ego to say I own. I own seven businesses. I own 150, you know, property. I own, I owe me, me, me, ego, ego.

But then when you just raise capital and control, to some extent that that ego is like walking around saying, oh, I control, it's not nearly as cool. You don't have that same, but you realize, oh my God, it's just so much better. Yeah. And if you remove the ego side of that whole thing, like, so I go around, like I just gave a speech this weekend to a group of,

whole life policy, insurance individuals. Okay. So my speech track these days, after all the stuff I've seen in 23 years of being a business owner, is a lot more about you need to become, most people think they want to be an entrepreneur, or they want to make a lot of money because they want financial freedom and they want time. I usually disagree with them. Okay. And even you might be like, what?

People should do what we do. They should be focused on making money. for one reason and one reason only. Happiness. Okay. Money doesn't make happiness. But what does create happiness is when your father becomes ill

and needs to be able to pay for his bills. What does create happiness is when your niece is graduating high school and you can have the entire family over to your house and pay for everything. And it's the time with those people. It's being able to step in when your dad needs some finances.

That, creates happiness. That identity or that contentment with yourself is totally different and saying, I own that, I own that, I own that. You're relevant. No, sure. Oh, yeah. You know, we, I see, my, my, my assistant is, is a, is a prime example of that. So she's, she's from small, small town America. Yeah. And I kind of, I picked her off at a bank. Um, and they just, She was doing all my wires. Yeah. And we were doing it.

You already know all my money. It was crazy. And she was making very small amount of money. And I was like, I'll double it. I'll pay for your lunches, pay for your gas. And I'll get you a massage once a month. Yeah. Those were like our criteria.

She was like, when do I start? Yeah. And she's been, she's great. But she's motivating too because we brought her into that world. And she was like, I didn't know anything like this existed. And so now she's grown so much. And that's, that's, watching the whole team, you know, like EOS and getting on to things like that nature.

And watching everybody grow together is probably one of the best moments to get to watch. Because I used to be so insecure that I couldn't go leave the business. You know, I'd work 18 hours a day, drink six Red Bulls, but then I started to get AFib. Oh, my God. And so I was like, do you drink any coffee or anything now? I haven't had any. I've had a little bit, like two coffees. in the last probably 60 days.

Okay, so as I just said, I've had six shots. But I did have one this morning, so I stayed at Ben's house. So you had a fancy machine. I was like, I wonder if that's any good. So, but no, that's that's that watching them grow and, you know, as far as like, their lid go up as far as law of lid. Yeah. And then become part of the dream.

Like, you're forecasting. That's the coolest thing ever. Like you, you know this. You're, you're writing it down on a sheet of paper and you're like, can I do this and then you start to see it. Dude. And then they start to see it. And then when that passion goes to them and you're like, and they start to talk like you and they believe,

that's when it goes, that's when it's awesome. It's, I will say everything from the cars to the house to like, everything I've created, it was a thought. Like I would like, this is what I want to go get.

Right. And if you just kind of keep that close to your mind, close to your heart, and then write it up. And, you know, whether you put up the boards or not, like, it's all possible if you actually know what you're walking towards. A lot of people don't know what they're walking towards. Like, I don't know.

I just want to make a lot of money. You're like, how the fuck are you just going to? Oh, I told my grandfather, I was like, grandpa, if I could just make $3,000 a month, I'd made it. Right. And I was, you know, but then once I got to leadership and they told me to write it down and here's your vision, here's your goals, how you do this. And you start really, and, you know, most people don't write it down. They just, they'd think about it, but they don't put it on a piece of paper.

And so, and who, Zig Ziglar was the one who taught me that. So I just started reading about these guys, and I was enthralled. You know, I was enthralled by how many revelations that I'd have just by being at the gym, listening to Zig Ziglar, listening to John Maxwell, going, or listening to Tony Robbins, listen to all of them. So I've spent, my wife get sick of it because I come in, I start the seam shower when I get home from the gym, and second thing comes on. is either leadership podcast, Christian teaching or whatever it is.

But something's going to be a plan that I'm going to learn. And she had, unfortunately, she sits right there and has to learn with me. That's right. So. Well, that's good. Now, as we're kind of wrapping up, I want everyone to understand, you've done some great stuff in business. Was it always pretty all the way through that, you know, that run?

I lost, I lost, I lost three best friends along the way. So it was, uh, and I'm, I'm. And it had to do with, I'm guessing, fights over money? It had to do with, well, different things. I mean, like this, I'm going through one right now. That one had to do with it just, well, he didn't have the amount of money that I thought he had, so he wouldn't sign a loan paper. So that ended quick.

The other one that was just that we just, he wanted to go buy different something. So he wanted to go buy minerals that are called PDP, minerals that are already produced. thinking I wanted to buy before. And then the other guy. Is that a reason and a friendship? I don't. It was. That one,

I still talked to him. Now, the other one was probably a best friend. So he was, I was best man in his wedding, best man of mine. What happened on that one was, I introduced him to the buying arm.

So he had minerals that he was going to buy with his investor. And then we're going to send it over to this group, which had big time dollars, billion, billions upon billions. And, but I was having, to work in Ohio at this point.

And he was a one-man show and he asked to be a partner so he could, we could, he would, because I'd made, I'd kind of done really well for myself when he came on. And he ended up becoming in cahoots with this investor. And so ended up cutting me out. He didn't know much about business and I could have sued him because he was like, I never signed the operating agreement. I go, well, we got a bank account. I'm like we've been doing business as.

I can sue you for this. but I just felt like God told me that just did not. And he ended up making an exorbitant amount of money off that relationship, but it ended ours. And what it told me was is that the money was more valuable. Yep. Than the name. That's right.

And that's where I learned that. Or the relationship. Yep. Right. And that's the identity thing. Yep. Have you gone through financial challenges along the way? Or is there days that you're like,

how the fuck am I going to pay this month's mortgage? Or whatever those exist. Like, have you had your experience that along the, you know, at the age of 30, you started raising a lot of, of money. Yeah. Bring us along this journey. Like, was it just like, dude, I walked around and I have the minus touch and I'm just

raising billions of dollars for last decade? It was, it was, no, it was very, when it got to, uh, co. So I, I was probably off drugs for six years, break my ankle probably in 2016 or 17. And I tell the doctor, I was like, I'm an addict. Don't give me anything. And he was like, what would give him this? And whatever it was, and I don't remember what that was, but the wheel started

turning. So I got back on OxyContin and for about three years. And then when COVID hit, so I had all my money and oil, well, all the oil wells were shut down and no one was paying the rent. So that was a problem. Little problem. So I had zero cash. I had a lot of paper net worth.

Sure. But zero, my cash was depleting very fast. And I wasn't in the right mindset. I was trying to come off. I had to end up going back to a rehab to get off of that. But it was a crash and burn moment. Then when I got out of rehab, I get, my lawyer calls me and said, you've been sued. And he took all the money out of my business bank account.

So I had zero dollars left. Your lawyer did? My lawyer, I got sued while I was in rehab. But who took the money out of your bank account? The guy that sued me. They did a siphon on it. So they had a, they sued me. And he was like, they are.

going to take the rest of this money. I can't remember what. They could do that before they even win the judgment? They already won the judgment. Oh, so you were rehab so you didn't even know you were getting sued. Oh, yeah, he took care of it. Well, he'd let me know I was getting sued, but I thought we'd win, but we didn't. So I remember my first call walking out of rehab was that. And so it was like, so you're saying I have no money. So I had a little bit of money in my other account, but it wasn't much. So it was like

back on the grind. So I had assets I could sell, but they were going to be at a, a much discounted price of what I bought them for, which really stings. But I had a few things that I could sell. So I had buildings, but they weren't producing a lot of income. So I could refinance. But I was in a pinch there for a little, especially since everything was shut down. I couldn't get to it. Yeah.

So it was a major problem. So that put me in a bind. But wife and I fought through that and it was, it was tough. But then when we started getting on the other side. And how long, how long did that take? Two, three years, a year? No, it took about. Five years, ten years?

To get back on? No, it took about it. Once I, you know, I just started doing exactly what I needed to do. What you knew to do. What I needed to do. That's right. I went back to just selling minerals. I shortened, you know, my team went from like 130 people to like seven all in like a two-month

period. So they were cutting all the land services because of the oil prices. It was when that oil price went sub-zero. And so that cut, that hurt. And then no one was buying, I couldn't buy any minerals at that point because everybody didn't know if minerals were going to be thing anymore. So after the prices went back up and then I also pulled out of the Permian, which is down by middle. It's like a sword fight out there. So I moved back into Oklahoma.

Just started slow, just really just concentrated on. Did you get back to the hustle? Making the call, showing up in the meetings, doing the things that you're like, this is the grind, but this is what got here. So they started building the team back together, and then it started to make money again. So it's like, it took a minute. So it took probably about a year and a half.

And it was a tough crunch, but I'd been there before. So I already had that T-shirt. So I knew how to- You already wore that scar, so you know exactly how to- You know, when you've been in those situations, if you've never been in that situation,

you've always had money. It feels like life is ending. Yeah. It honestly feels like I'm a fail. It goes back to that like I'm a failure. I totally fucked it up. I'm no good at this. Yeah.

I should go get a job at Starbucks, right? Like all that because I come from failure too, right? Like I don't walk around for 23 years just having the mind as touch. The first one or maybe even second time you go, fuck, maybe I suck. It's just perspective. Oh yeah. You do ask yourself, was it a fluke? Yeah.

It's like that's the first thing that they're like, well, shit, this must. be a fluke. I think that I don't know if I can do this again because now I don't have the partners and I'm like, you know, we had the sauce together, but do I have this on my own? And I knew I had a lot of shortcomings, especially on organizational sides. And so could I operate inside these strengths anymore? Because I'm going to have to do some things that aren't that are not my strengths. And so but after, you know, I had people buy into the vision. I had people call back. And, and we started doing it. And it was tough.

So I was hitting the phones just like 120 calls. Here I come. And so I sat in, I didn't even have an office. I just sat inside my house. And a good friend of mine, unfortunately, one of the most talented guys I've ever met, he was doing the same thing.

And he was 10 times better. I couldn't figure out how he was so good. He was so organized. He was doing so many deals. I was just like, Kelly. So I said, hey, can I fly out to your house and watch you work? I just want to sit behind you and watch how you do this.

And so I flew out there. And his name was Toby Martinez. He worked in the pyramid, but he had this organizational system. And so I was like, man, I'm out here to steal your organizational system. I'm just going to be straight up and honest. He's like, I don't care. He's like, take it. Yeah.

He's like, this is how I do it. And I said, great. So, and fortunately, he went in for one of those where you can't breathe on your nose. Oh, yeah. and he's never come out of that. What I mean? Never come out of it. Like he's like a vegetable.

Yeah, he's in a nursing home now. And he was extremely successful. I'm talking to him today. He just was trying to fix a deviated septum. He went to fix a deviated septum. I talked to him the day he was going in there. And he never came out of that. And he's still alive,

but he's living in a nursing home out. It's either in Houston or Albuquerque. I mean, just comments like that. You just like life social. Or what's it all about? I mean, he was so talented. I mean, he's sitting there and giving me free information for nothing. And so, no, I still talk to his two partners today.

I mean, every once in a while, we aren't in the same area anymore. But I talked to him a few times. But yeah, it's unfortunate because I learned so much from the – I picked up oil and gas is more veiled than your world. Like, you can find anything on real estate. You just ask the question. But in oil and gas, they're just really veiled. Of course.

They're not going to sit there. old boy. I mean, literally the definition of a good old boy network. It is. So let's bring up the fun land man the show. Yeah. How much of this is just, you know, HBO or how much of that is like? So he's definitely wouldn't be considered a landman. Some of the scenes he is, but he's mostly a company man, a company man. A company man. A landman never goes out to a well. Okay. So a landman mostly sits inside of a vault called the county clerk's vault of all the land records and never goes to the actual. So there's five things. right away, leasing, title, curative, and due diligence. That's the five things, landmending. And so that doesn't mean that we ever go out to. We'd have nothing to do out there. It would just be like us viewing it well, but we really wouldn't know. Because you're not the, you don't do, you're not the tactician of.

Now the part where he's in a chair strapped and he has a gun to his head, I've never had been in a chair strapped down, but I've had many guns put, you know, faced at me while I'm trying, especially in the Barnett shell, because when you would go into that. Hispanic district. They have a fence around their yard. Well, you have to jump over that fence to get to their front door. And they know when somebody rings that door, they haven't been divided. That's right.

So I was met with double barrel shotguns. And you get in some weird bit of documents because you're going in some, some desolate areas that it's you and them. And so, you know, that's a, but so there are some of that. But most of the time nowadays, when I first started, they had to go to the courthouse. Most of it's digitized now. Yeah. So we can just, you know, you can sit on your couch and run title.

And what about some of the scenes with, I'm thinking, the head guy that died, Demi Moore's husband. Yeah. He's also great in the other show, Friends and Neighbors. Yeah. If you've ever watched that. But that level, like those boardroom meetings and some of this. I've never been that.

I've never been that big. I have friends that have made it to that level. You know, the one. The Andy Garcia's of the World. who are yeah like that would be like your Cody Campbell level he's he's been a guy that I've known what and watched from the beginning and he's probably four years younger than me I mean he's he's he's he's that level he's one of the few that have gotten that level he's probably done I don't know he's probably done

19 to 23 billion dollars maybe more than that now and in stales him's double eagle his his names on he well Texas Texas Fields named Cody Campbell Field. There you go. And so, and he's, I think he's 43 or something like that. So he's probably the biggest guy that,

and it couldn't happen to a better guy. Yeah. He's extremely humble. And if he walked into this room, he could walk into any room and you would never think that he was the guy. He would just, he'd be quiet and he wouldn't be wearing anything fancy. He'd wear blue jeans. He'd walk in

and he were blue jeans. And so I really like that about him. He's a great guy. And he's done a lot for me. I love that. John Fernando, everybody. LinkedIn. Where else can we go find you? Where would you like to?

Facebook. And Facebook, John Fernando. Instagram. And Instagram. This has been great. We could go on and on. We probably will. We'll probably have a number two of these.

Okay. What you do is incredible. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having you for being the guy that you are. Get with John. If you're interested in any of this, if you're interested in oil, minerals, real estate and understanding a little bit more, make sure to get with him. get with the team and just understand more because there's opportunities everywhere.

Cool? Yeah. If this was pretty cool and you think there's a couple people that need to hear from John, make sure you share this with three your friends. See the next one.