The Science of Flipping - From Minimal Capital to Real Estate Triumph | Casey Quinn

Episode Date: February 2, 2024

Casey Quinn shares tips for success in real estate investing despite market changes. Starting with little capital, he focused on flipping properties to create value. Now, he manages 20-30 home transactions per quarter. Quinn suggests diversifying strategies to manage risks and stresses careful evaluation of deals and financing options. He emphasizes the importance of income and capital for funding deals and scaling operations. Quinn plans to acquire 100 homes in 2024, focusing on long-term ownership. He sees single-family homes as low-risk investments with potential for growth. Quinn encourages networking and offers branding advice for aspiring investors.

Yo, yo, what's up, Science of Flipping fam? Welcome back to another episode of Science of Flipping podcast. I have a special guest with me, and we are going to be diving into how to not just make a ton of money in real estate, but then also build out a portfolio in the best way possible. Casey Quinn is here. He's someone that I've recently become very, very close with. I'd consider him a good friend of mine already, even though we really only know each other a year. He's one of the good guys in this space, and he's done a lot in five years, only five years. So Casey, what is up, my brother?

How you doing, man? I appreciate you having me. Looking forward to pouring in a little bit here. Yeah. So we'll give a little bit of your background here coming up, but really what I want to highlight is for everyone to understand that you shouldn't be a one trick pony. You should be wholesaling, flipping and building wealth. You have spent the better part of your five years doing all three, but really have found great success in building an impressive portfolio. Something that I'm continuing to build myself. But let's talk a little about the real time right here, right now, and how all this has kind of changed for myself and for you and how you're angling the economy as we see interest rates and property prices. What has changed for you real time in the last five years and then what has changed now? Yeah, I love it. Let's dive right into it.

So, I mean, at the end of the day, we're playing in a tough market. I think we all can attest to the market right now is quite different. And for me, literally, it's the most different I've ever seen it from when I got into real estate. I was not a part of the OA crash and building it back up from that. So things were always amazing when I started up until about a year, year and a half ago when things all of a sudden started changing with the rates, right? So our beginning started as a bar model investor. We had no capital, we had no cash. And so the only way to start to create the business was through bar model investing. A lot of people do the wholesale, right? It's wholesale route to beginning through some flips. Our goal was really to kind of create

enterprise value from day one. We can get into that if you want, but really how to build a business. Our goal was from day one to build kind of long-term wealth, play the long-term gain. We didn't have money, so we didn't care, It was like, hey, we can delay having riches and having money, et cetera, down the line. Let's build that portfolio. To your point, for the first few years we were in the game, it was easy. We can make a thousand mistakes. We'd go over budget on our renovation, $20,000, and the market fixed it every single time because the market was a straight hockey stick up. You know, we're investing in Pittsburgh and so it was no different here at the time. And we kind of made a lot of our mistakes

and we did a lot of our learning in a great market for us. A year and a half ago, right? Market flipped upside down completely. Luckily for us, we had built a nice base, a nice portfolio. We had a really strong balance sheet. And so we were able to pivot relatively easy and start to create some different revenue streams. We've always been a big believer in multiple revenue streams, right? If you're wholesaling, flipping, we own a brokerage,

we have construction, we have property management. So we sort of do it all. We started that way from the very beginning. It was, hey, let's buy real estate and create the verticals within the real estate space from day one. That way we have diversity and risk from the standpoint of doing multiple things. So when the market turned, that was really it. Hey, we can't do deals as successfully as we used to do deals per model investing. Rates from the banks doubled. And so guess what? It was a lot harder to pull all that capital back out that we were investing into the real estate from the bank and actually make a cash flow. And so that's when we really had to pivot and start finding other ways to generate cash flow now than bar model investing. And we took a period of time

where about six months, we were buying a lot less single family homes. We were wholesaling a lot more. We did some more flips. We sold some more existing real estate to kind of generate a lot of that cash flow while the market was restabilizing, real estate to kind of generate a lot of that cash flow while the market was restabilizing, while we were kind of waiting for sellers to come off a price, et cetera. So right now that was really a big pivot. We realized, hey, we need to be wholesaling. We need to be selling assets that we own from a flip perspective more often. We need to focus on our revenue streams, focus on the brokerage and focus on those different areas while still doing and investing as much as we can into our portfolio. So currently right now, we're only doing roughly

20 or so single family homes that we're keeping a quarter. And then we're really investing, we're probably doing 30 to 40 deals, closer to 50 deals at this point towards the back end of this year and wholesaling. And then strategically looking at other areas. We do construction now for other people, et cetera, as well in order to create cashflow because cashflow is king right now. We could talk about that till we're blue in the face, but you've got to be able to make income in cashflow in order to invest. So that's what we continue to be focused on given the change in the market. Yeah. I think one of the things I talk about a lot, I've done this now 16 years, so I've seen a lot of people come and go.

And a lot of the times I kind of poke fun at the people that have just crushed it in the last five or six years because they literally, you mentioned it, you've had your wind at your back. You could have made blundering mistakes for six, eight years. We did, yep. And you still won, right? You still have accumulated. How many doors do you have now?

Yeah. So after selling a decent bit, we're still, we had over 700 total doors, roughly 90 million in real estate value that we have. Right. And along that path, you made blundering mistakes that were covered up because the wind behind your back. And so funny, the last five or six years, there's all these coaches and gurus have spawned up everywhere, right? And then shit gets real. The market changes, interest rates, and I don't actually see them anymore for some reason. So we had some friends that were wholesalers in different states. Right. And they're gone. They're literally, you know, they're doing they took a job somewhere else or they're, you know, they're down to a two person shop where they had

like 30 people. Right. It's crazy how the environment has changed on these full single-focused investors that we've seen that were just killing it based on the market, allowing them to kill it. And so you bring up a point that I really heavily educate in my community, which is don't be a one trick pony. Don't just be a wholesaler and rely on one marketing strategy, et cetera, or don't just buy and hold in one method, right? Like you should be flipping a certain percent of the home you buy. You should be wholesaling those that don't quite work because we're not seeing the appreciation and we're not seeing the ability to cash out refi. You're talking about that real time right now. So I'm not really talking to you. I'm talking to the

listener right now who really wants to buy rentals. I mean, that is obviously the sexy wealth accumulation. That's what we're in it for. Grant Cardone has done a brilliant job marketing to that, but really it's a process over time, right? Grant Cardone is not the person he is today because he's done this for 24 months. He's done it for essentially 20 years in his books. He talks about, you know, the first 1800 doors he bought in Tucson, Arizona, which not no one talks about. No one, he doesn't even really talk about it if it wasn't his book. And so your method was the bird method. I still run the bird method. I think the difference between what I'm doing right now and what you were doing is I'm underwriting eight and a half

percent. And so if it still fits at eight and a%, it fits, right? I mean, a couple of key points you mentioned, right? Like number one, financing is as of a point in time. And so you have to evaluate it as at that point in time, evaluate it conservatively, and then you only have upside. You can always refinance later. So your deals that cashflow at 8.5%, they're great deals because eventually rates will fall based on government and based on inflation. We know that. That will happen at some point. You just can't rely on it. And so if the cash flow is today, you only have upside. The key to your point that you make,

in my opinion, really is around you've got to have and be able to evaluate and have multiple exits for every single deal. And so you have a lot of these one-off investors or folks maybe not doing it full-time yet or don't have a 50-person company that's doing 20-some million in revenue like we are. So it's a little bit different. And so you're getting less opportunities at deals. Right now, we spend over $40,000 a month in direct lead generation. And so it's hard to compete with that if you're a two-person shop or you're a sole investor. And so what you really need to be doing is evaluating every deal that you're looking at and multiple exits because there's five or six exits on every single deal you're doing. And you have to evaluate that deal on all of those exits and understand what's the best exit

for you specifically for that deal. Don't fall in love with the deal itself. Don't fall in love with that property that you say, hey, I have to keep this forever it doesn't make sense we did that early on that's how we built the business because again the market was winning but now we realized like hey you know we're spending all this money in a lead gen we can't keep everything because everything doesn't pencil and so can we wholesale can we hotel it can we innovate it can we flip it right there's innovate it? Can we flip it? Right. There's all can we partner in JV with someone else that's going to bring a capital to the table for that deal? There's all these different exit strategies, right? Seller finance, right? So we're getting a lot more creative on our offers and trying to get some creative finance in place on some of

these deals where if it's an older property, the owner that hasn't doesn't have debt on it, we can start to get creative, give a higher price, sit on seller financing. So there's just a thousand ways to evaluate a specific deal in a market that we're playing in today. If you're only considering or thinking about one avenue or one exit strategy with that deal, odds are it's not going to pencil, right? You might catch a needle in a haystack every once in a while for that deal to pencil and how you're underwriting it, but odds are it's not. And so you've got to get more creative around the deals that you're looking at because, quite frankly, they're just a lot harder to find right now. Specifically, big time, and I know we don't want to get into it a ton, but in the multifamily space, it is really, really hard

to find a good multifamily deal right now because there's just not a lot of opportunity out there. And so you've got to- I think that's changing, right? I would make the argument in the next 12 months, I think there's going to be a lot of pain in the multifamily space. And I think people are going to make hard decisions. Yeah, pain is definitely coming. We see that in the data and the trends and we're kind of preparing for that,

which is why we're trying to get as cash heavy as we can to prepare for that. But the truth is it hasn't happened yet. I mean, literally this year of 2023 has been the hardest market to find multi. People just weren't selling, right? And I think they're waiting. They had debt. They're hoping the interest rates change. Do they refi? Do they have to fire sell? And eventually a lot of that runs out. I forget the stat. It was a crazy number when I heard it about how much debt comes due next year on multifamily. And a lot of these deals were purchased at cap rates in the three to fours.

And guess what? Debt rate now is seven. And so you're upside down three or four points at a mass scale. It's a massive problem. There's going to be a lot of fire sales happening just to try to get out of the debt. And so the point we see it coming to, we're hoping it comes, but we're certainly not relying on it. Right. We don't rely on something we can't control, but our fingers are certainly crossed. They can, a lot of those deals should be started across our place next year at some point. What about, you talked about how you got started. You didn't have any cash. So you did this, like if you are going to be talking to someone who does want to buy rentals, but

I have a unique perspective of buying rentals. I think people need to make income first. So I tell people to go wholesale and fix and flip and make income first. Doesn't mean you can't use other people's money. And I think that's the breakdown of where people are right now is they don't know how to raise capital. They don't know how to communicate that. They don't know how to even create that, right? So if a deal came across, they would say, well, I don't have enough money to buy it or I'm going to use all my last dollars to buy this. And then I'm done. Yep. How did you break into whether it's raising capital?

How did you go get your first call at 50 doors? What was your strategy? Yeah. So I'll dive into that for you here in one second. But I want to touch on a point or maybe a little bit because I do love what you said there around. You've got to go make money first. I totally agree with you. Let me add a different way maybe that you can look at this, right? Think about it from this perspective. You need to be able to raise, you need to be able to make enough money for two things. One, for your personal livelihood.

And if you have a W-2 job, maybe that's somewhat taken care of, which is great. And so then you need to make enough money to reinvest back in your business. What I mean by that is operationally, you need to have enough money to operationally sustain and grow your business. And so guess what? If you're a one-man show, you've got to be making enough money to scale to hire a second person and a third person and a fourth person to really build. I don't want to throw this

word out a ton, but enterprise value, but really build the process, the systems and the operations in order to run and grow your company. That's the money you need to make to do. Then look at a deal perspective. So look at the deal a little bit separately. That's your transactional work. That's the volume, that's your sales side, et cetera. And so how can you fund those deals differently than how you're funding your company? You never want to take debt out, especially you're on, in my opinion, especially in this space, because banks don't really allow you to do it because they want to attach to real estate. So you've got to, to your point, find ways to fund your operations through income. To your point, most people better go do a flip, do a wholesale, start another vertical of which

you're generating that capital and that return in order to go buy more real estate and keep it. When you're looking at that deal specific to your exact point, you can get funding on it, right? Especially now, there's a ton of institutional partners out there. There's a ton of private capital. Money at that big institutional levels, the most it's ever been, there's a reason why all of these single family homes are getting eaten up by the institutions because there's a lot of capital there and they have to place it somewhere. When you find that good deal, these people want to place the capital, right? And so you can go start with institutional money, which I highly recommend and we did that, but you then still also need the equity money to go into deal, right? If you're

talking to your RCN Capital and your Kiavis of the world, they're not going to give you 100% of financing, 100% of down payment, 100% of your closing costs, 100% of your holding costs, and the renovation, right? So you're going to have to come out of pocket money. That deal, that money can still be funded by somebody else. That doesn't have to be the money that you made, the money you make keeping operations. And you've got to be really diligent and really, really focused around managing your capital and understanding exactly where it is. And so early on, right, to get to our first 50 doors, this is exactly what we did. So we had no money to start. And so we said, hey, we've got to generate some money. How are we going to do that? We did that through actual

residential sales. My business partner was a retail sales agent. And so we said, hey, we've got to generate some money. How are we going to do that? We did that through actual residential sales. My business partner was a retail sales agent. And so we were making a bunch of money on the retail sales side. And we were using that money to support our lifestyle plus invest early on into surviving because it was just two of us. Right. We didn't have a team. And then we were borrowing money. So the very first money we got was private money from my partner's doctor. Right? He set me up a meeting with his doctor. He had been telling about what he was doing and how he wanted to invest. He got me set up on the financial side to have a conversation and we'd landed $100,000 from Brian's doctor, right? Early on. And so what the $100,000 was for us was spread across multiple deals on the equity side. And so we went to a company out of Cleveland at the time called Fund That Flip. I now believe they changed their name to Uprise maybe or Upright or something like that. Something like that, yeah. Yeah, they just changed their name recently.

So we went to them. I had known them from a previous world, the guys over there. So they were pretty generous in their funding meeting. I think they did 80 or 90% of the acquisition, 100% of reno. So we had to fund our closing, obviously our holding cost. We got pretty aggressive getting that capital early, but we had that 100K. And so we said, look, if we're going to buy an $80,000 home and put 60 grand into it, we know we can get

80% of all of that capital from fund that flip. We need another 20,000 to carry the delta on that deal. And so we used 20,000 of the 100 we raised from doctor on that deal. And then we did our second deal, right? With the same amount of money. And so that's where that money was placed. And it was just someone that really knew, knows, liked, and trusted us in order to give us that money. All of the capital we raised has mostly been from people

that know, like, and trust us in referrals for sure. And so that's how then we started like, okay, cool started accumulating the really cool thing was at the time we were doing burrs and finding really good deals and so you know i think our first deal we bought for 40 grand put like five grand i know that was turnkey already rented it was worth 80 grand after we bought it we went to the bank the bank gave us 60 grand we you know we ended up being out of pocket like 48 total. And so we got to 60 grand back. We just made 12 grand in profit, right? Cash-free, I'm sorry, tax-free profit because it was just a loan. The property I think was rented for like 1300 a month. Our cashflow was roughly four to 450 a month on that deal. And we knew we didn't have to put much into it. So we're

like, cool, that 12K or whatever it was, we can take and invest in operations, right? And not have to worry because we're making 450 a month. We'll create a reserve over there and that's going to be able to take care of that property. Now we've got cashflow, right? And we did that a bunch of times as fast as we possibly could early on. And so all of a sudden we were making this bar amount of money. We were putting all of that money back into running operations, scaling, hiring people, investing really heavy in operations. And then that allowed us to continue to go buy more because we had people that were able to do the work, right? We had certain accountants, we had people finding us the deals and we were able to invest in that early. And that's allowed us to scale, right? I mean, we started, we bought our

first property May 21st, 2019, that exact home that I told you. We've since done close to 850 deals since then. So we're averaging a deal every two days from the day we started until now because we've been able to continue to just scale and reinvest that capital back into operations and into the business to hire the creative process, streamline, spend money on lead gen, et cetera. So going into 2024, what is your model going to be consisting of? Yeah, it's widespread, right? Because again, we have several revenue streams. Our priority continues to be buy and hold real estate. So our goal is to acquire 100 single family homes next

year, process of our spin wheel, which we have acquisitions team. We have the hold back office in place. We have the BRRRR model financing in place through my team. We have the construction all in-house. We have a really good process there. And so really we'll buy on our properties next year where my involvement is simply approving if we buy it or not. I haven't been at a home in over 12 months and it's really turnkey. So that's priority number one. Obviously the market's a little bit tougher. So we're no longer making a lot of capital to be honest with you on the refis out. We're pretty much right around break even. That's our goal. So our 2024 goal was really, hey, can we get a hundred properties where we acquire it,

renovate it, rent it, go back to a bank at that point in time and have the bank fund back everything that we had borrowed in order to do the deal, right? So we have 130 into it. We're hoping that we can get 180 ARV-ish in order to get 130 on a loan and break even there. And so there's a few ways now that we have to make capital, right? To support our growth, to continue to reinvest back in our business. And so we're doing a ton of wholesaling. So our goal is to get to three or four million in wholesale fees alone next year. And we're also doing construction, right, because we've kind of mastered the process of renovating homes. And so, you know, we've done, you know, close to 400 renovations in our five years. And so, you know, we're going to be doing more of

that. We're going to scale that up and continue to do our own renovations as well as renovations in our five years. And so we're going to be doing more of that. We're going to scale that up and continue to do our own renovations as well as renovations for other investors in the area. I mean, we're turnkey. We know what we're doing. We're not the cheapest. But if you're an investor and you buy a home and you got a $60,000 scope, you can give it to us and not show up again. If you bought a home here, we'd happily go do that renovation for you. You won't have to worry about it. It's peace of mind, which is really important. So we're going to continue to grow that revenue stream for us. We still got our brokerage up and running.

We've got our property management up and running. And we're continuing to just evaluate and focus on the cash flow while continuing to buy. And then multifamily, right? We want to get into multifamily as much as we can. We've had a lot of success this year acquiring multifamily. Two weeks ago, we closed on 81 units uh five and a half million dollar purchase price right we've got to kind of thank you yeah we've got to kind of onboard all that we've got a lot of work to turn that right turn a lot of the units get them up to market rents and so we're just you know a lot of work goes into kind of running the asset plans we have 700 units and so there's a lot

of work that goes into you know 500 of 500 of those are multi, 200 are single family homes, which are a lot easier once you're finished the renovation, but the multi is continued, right? And so we're looking for more, you know. Do you feel like you're going to continue to go into the single family? So I'm single family only because it is very difficult to find the multis, right? So we just bought a fourplex out in Mobile. I think we're looking at two, eight units out in mobile as well, which brings me to the next part, which will just be like your business model is localized. Mine is virtual. I go virtual for a very specific reason. You go local for a specific reason. So I want to get to there, but are you going to always buy single

family homes or at some point is your entire business model going into the commercial side? Yeah. It's funny you asked that. I've been asked that several times recently and people actually say, why? They ask it a little bit of a different way of like, why do you continue to buy single family homes? And it's a good question. When I reflected on that, my answer initially is always just like, well, why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't we? We can buy a hundred single family homes next year and have a lot of success in, well, why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't we? We can buy 100 single family homes next year and have a lot of success in them. So why wouldn't we do it? I think that continues to be the answer. What I'll tell you is for us, it's something bigger. It's about building happiness, transforming lives, and strengthening the community. And so that's building a massive

company, building a massive enterprise value, creating jobs, creating better lifestyles for both us and our tenants. And who would we be kidding if we said, hey, we're not going to buy single family homes anymore. Well, are we really better in the community? Are we really transforming lives? Are we really building happiness? The answer is no. And so why would we not do it? We've got to follow our mission and our vision and continue to invest in our local community in the Pittsburgh area and continue to buy single family homes. And they're great deals. And so we're also making money off and we're also building wealth, building equity, right? The really cool thing in my eyes about single family homes is they're the easiest to evaluate. They're the most risk-free in my opinion, because there's so many exits. You can exit with an investor. You can exit on the rental side. You can create a finance exit. You could sell it to the retail open market.

Still to this day, everybody wants to buy a home and it's the American dream and it should be the American dream. And so when people migrate to the United States, they want to buy a home. And so they're going to buy a single family home and so your exit strategy is the easiest with single family homes and so it's risk free and so yes to answer your question we're absolutely going to continue to buy single family homes and that's some of the reason as to why why we'll keep going and not stop doing it so there's a couple reasons why i love single family is lowest barrier of entry right i think anyone just getting started to your point, they can buy one or two a month economically and sustain it. The overhead cost tends to be the least, right? So, um, but

that's a whole nother point in the sense of like, people also underestimate the actual cost of holding costs and they don't realize of, of, you know, maintenance and the cost of these things. And so, um, the other thing I would, I would point out in the reason why I go virtual and you go local for totally different reasons is I like single family homes because the appreciation, right? Every 15 years, a single family home doubles in value. If you just look at the data historically, every 15 years, it will double. So for those that are in here and saying, Hey, I'm trying to do the legacy play, which I love the legacy play. I'm all about it. I can't say the same is true because I don't know the data by the way about commercial, right? Um, I don't know the data. So frankly, I'm not going

to speak to it. Um, but I can tell you commercial offices, that is not the case. That has been a big change. And I just don't think that ever, you know, COVID or any other extreme circumstances ever going to change the value of houses because they always need to live somewhere. But I like the appreciation model. I just posted something the other day. I'm not sure if you buy a home today at 7.5% and your payment was like $3,400 or something for a $300,000 home. If you buy a home next year at 6.5%, if we're so good to have a 6.5% next year,

well, the valuation of that home, same home is about 350, you have a higher mortgage payment. But people are gonna sit around and wait for the interest rates to drop. And I think it's just something that they're undereducated on really what the value of interest rates versus areas that actually appreciate. So if you're in a good area that has that type of appreciation within a 12 month period or 24 month period, you're actually going to lose money by sitting here and waiting because you're going to pay more for the same asset than you would have if you bought today. That is why I'm going to be very bullish on buying every day, each day, no matter what and when, because single family

homes specifically, because that is the niche that I play in right now, they're just going to consistently appreciate. And that is why I choose whether it's mobile or birmingham or jacksonville or pensacola these markets that i know have appreciation value is because over time i don't care if i'm paying like my long-term loan right now is eight and a half percent i don't care because that home if i try to wait to buy that same home and i get seven and a half or seven percent the value of the home now is 350 and not 250. Yeah. And the crazy thing is even to add to your point, to me, I love the way you think about that, but I look at that as all upside. So I think about the 200 homes that we own now that we've

been able to do the deal. We have no money of our own money in any of the 200 homes, meaning we have pulled money out and successfully scaled our operational company. And it's cash flowing. The crazy thing is, right, that 200 single family homes is worth probably, you know, 33-ish million dollars, right? And so we don't do anything. We don't buy another home. We don't do anything for the next 15 to 20 years, regardless of anything. Like, and it doesn't depreciate. You know you know me and my partner worth 33 million just on our single family homes alone because 15 years brother i'm telling you you're you're 50 million plus in 15 years yeah right so if it's 33 now it's to your point 66 million in 15 years and oh by the way we paid off all the debt and so it's there's a clean 66 million so that's why like how old are you gonna be in 15

years dog 50 35 young buck young buck what the crazy like you know we're gonna buy 100 like that's if we do nothing right that's the point so people that like this financing is a like you've got to get the cash flow it just means you've got to work a little bit harder right now you've just got to work harder to find the deals guys it's just not as simple as no matter what I do, I'm going to win. It's just work a little bit harder and still figure out a way to invest, make your cashflow, put that back into the deal, and you're going to thank yourself later every time. Every time. Casey, obviously, I appreciate you coming and spending some time. We are a part of what you and I would probably consider the very best mastermind in the real

estate space, the boardroom. That's how we met each other. I would tell each and every one of you as you start to see some guests, more guests. I always have guests, but, you know, I really want to leverage my network and the people that are really doing big things and many of them coming from the boardroom because, you know, for those listening, trying to either break into the space, or maybe you're trying to figure out how to really scale the business. These are these episodes for you, right? This is all about building the business. And so, um, where can everyone find you if they want to reach out to you, bro?

Yeah, you can find me. And just to add to your point really quick, right? Like I absolutely am the biggest believer in getting yourself in groups, right? If you can't afford the most expensive masterminds, if you will find the right groups justin i know you run a great group so like everybody that's listening needs to be subscribed to what you're doing what you're putting out uh and there's a lot of them across the round right it's getting in those getting education and taking action uh so i couldn't couldn't agree more with you man it's it's awesome and it's awesome that people like you that are out there adding all this value to people. So I love that. I appreciate it. You can find me, you know, my socials, Facebook, Instagram are probably the best at Casey Ryan Quinn

on both of those. I added my middle name because it was mistaken early on. And I'm not the best personal brander yet. We're working on that on my side as well. But yeah, Casey Ryan Quinn on both of those. Feel free to reach out. I've got a website, caseyryanquinn.com. Happy to jump on a call or help any of your listeners for sure, man, because we're all in this together. The coolest thing about our business and real estate, especially at the national level, is there's no competition, right? If you collaborate, you're going to win. And so you've got to think of collaboration over competition all day. The more hands you shake, the more money you make.

I promise you that. That is very, very true. And so if you haven't yet followed me, make sure you're following me. If you haven't yet subscribed to this YouTube, make sure you are subscribing at justincolby.tv. Give me a five-star review on iTunes, Spotify, all the local podcasts. So that is it for today, guys. Go out there and crush real estate. Appreciate you, dude.

Talk to you later. Thanks, bro.