The Science of Flipping - Gambling in Real Estate is a Risky Play - Why You Should Avoid It | Joel Friedland

Starting point is 00:00:00 Do you want to hear something really cynical? What's that? My three rules of real estate, when people ask me, what are the three rules of real estate? This is going to sound really bad, but this is what I've learned in 40 years. Everybody lies. Everybody lies. Everybody lies. And the worst lie is when you lie to yourself because you try to convince yourself that

Starting point is 00:00:20 something that isn't right is right. Is right. And that's where you're gambling and where you're making the mistake. And so what I'm trying to do, I think the risk off and the whole concept of not gambling is just not lying to yourself and knowing who you are. yo yo what is up everybody welcome back to the science of flipping podcast i am your host very excited to have a guest on today. Before we get to my guest, as always, this episode is brought to you by my main sponsor, MinutePages.com. They are the only place you need to be going as a real estate investor for your professional website. If you

Starting point is 00:01:19 want to 10X your lead flow, you need to make sure you have a MinutePages website. Go to minutepages.com now to get yours. All right, everybody, welcome back to the episode. I have a colleague on this episode who him and I have been talking a little bit about some interesting topics about what's the difference between gambling versus real estate investing. This gentleman has over 30 years of experience, has built an incredible portfolio Joel Friedland how are you my friend doing great nice to see you good to see you as well I appreciate you coming on to drop some wisdom I like to call it there's a lot of listeners who may be 30 minutes into this game and so love having someone on that has seen a lot more than even I have.

Starting point is 00:02:06 I've been in this 15 years. You've doubled that. You've seen more recessions, the Great Recession, and so on and so forth. And we are definitely in a time of change, as you and I were just discussing. But why don't we start with this? Why don't we introduce you? I'll allow you to do it. Give everyone some understanding of who you are, what you've done, what you've seen, what you've gone through, and we'll take it from there. Sure. Well, when I graduated from college, I knew I wanted to be in real estate. And I was looking for a job and I thought I was going to be in residential real estate. I thought I'd be in multifamily or apartments or something like that. And a very close friend of mine said, I have a buddy who owns an industrial real estate company. Would you consider talking to him about a job?

Starting point is 00:02:52 I said, yeah, sure. So I called this guy. I never met him. His name was Milt Podolsky. At the time, he was 63, which is exactly how old I am now. I keep comparing myself to my original mentor and like, oh my God, I'm the age that he was because I've been doing this for 40 years. And I went in and I met with him and he said, so do you take no for an answer? And I said, no, no. I try to get what I want by convincing people and persuading people. He said, okay, you're hired. He says, now we're in the middle of a recession. It was 1981. Interest rates were 17%. And he said, I've got about 15 empty buildings out of the 84 that my family owns. He said, you're going to go door to door and you're going to find me tenants. So I went into industrial parks, not knowing anything.

Starting point is 00:03:46 And I started going from one company to another. I'd walk in the door and there'd be a receptionist and I'd have to figure out what to say. So I'd say, hey, we have a building down the street that we'd like to lease. Would you consider moving? And she'd say, we're not moving. The receptionist would rarely know what they were talking talking about right so i'd say so who's the owner of the company i'd like to talk to the owner and someone would come out and invariably they'd say come on back to my office let's talk and i would sit with them and try to convince them that if they were ready to grow their business uh let's go let's take a look at our building down the street but at that time,

Starting point is 00:04:26 what they would say to me was, hey, kid, don't you know we're in a recession? We're just barely holding on. We're not doing anything. We're on hold. So during recessions, what happens to investment real estate and sort of my experience of going through four cycles is people go on hold. Yeah. And I think there's, you know, you and I run different models and it's really good for my audience to hear this, right? Because there's so much similarity. Everyone's trying to figure out what they want to do. Do they want a wholesale? Do they want to flip? Do they want to multi-units? Do they want to be the next Grant Cardone and go, you know, 2000,,000 doors, do they want to be you and go and get, you know, 300 million worth of industrial. So everyone's trying to decide, but there's similarities

Starting point is 00:05:11 amongst all of it, right? One, financing, lending, to syndicating, three, ups and downs, right. And so when my world of single family homes, multi units, in this time, there is a lot of people on hold. And I actually just did a podcast prior to this one talking about the one thing I know about me in most is we know when everyone else is on hold is when I want to take market share. Because the people that would typically be trying to acquire the same asset that I want to acquire, specifically even this time of year, December, they're on vacation. I literally have a good friend of mine, does very well every year investing. He's done. He literally called me. He's like, hey, me and my wife are done for the year. We're like, we're on, literally he's in bail right

Starting point is 00:06:00 now and the whole thing. God bless him. that's what we do it for 100 but now i'm like let me pour a little bit more gas on my fire right now because he's no longer in the game for the next two and a half weeks right yeah so i'm glad that you bring that up is because i think a lot of people need to understand you've seen four of these things i've seen two and it is most common for people to freeze, right? To hold tight, to hang in there and just see what happens. What's your best advice to that? Well, okay.

Starting point is 00:06:32 So here's an interesting part of my background. I ran a real estate brokerage company. When I worked for this Milt Podolsky, I was there for 10 years, and it was a family where he was the dad. There was two sons and a daughter. this Milt Podolsky, I was there for 10 years. And it was a family where he was the dad, there was two sons and a daughter. And after 10 years, when I realized that they weren't going to adopt me, and I wanted to be a partner in the business, I went and started my own business. And over the last 30 years, I have mentored about 70 brokers who many of them have become buyers and owners of real estate. And the thing that

Starting point is 00:07:08 I've learned is that there's no wrong time to be a buyer. There's a wrong time to buy the wrong property. So for me, it all comes down to due diligence. If you look at a property and you know the market and you figure out what it's worth and what you think the market's doing and what you think the property is going to do, even in the most crazy bubble, there are still deals. It's just harder to find them. So what happens is we just dig in more. And what I've watched is I'd say 20 of these people that I've mentored have become incredibly successful. They're all multimillionaires.

Starting point is 00:07:49 The other 50 are gone. They never made it in the business. And I've watched these 20 and they're still buying things today, even though I find it to be the most difficult market I've ever seen to buy properties. The values are high and there's a gap between what a seller thinks it's worth today and what I'm willing to buy. My pricing level is like three years ago. And I keep thinking, if somebody paid $2 million for a building and they want to sell it to me for 3 million, I'm looking at the next year, all these predictions of a recession and rates going up, it scares me.

Starting point is 00:08:27 So I really have to be sure of the property. That's the key to it. Yeah. And you're in just for clarity purposes, just to give a little more feedback of your strength. You are much more in the industrial space than the single family home space. Not to say you've not done single family homes, just that is really where you've built your massive amount of wealth. I bring that to light for you to a talk a little bit more about that. I think my audience has heard me enough with single family homes. But But also, again, I want to draw that parallel. Without me really defining that he was in the industrial space. Most of you watching this either at justincolby.tv or listening to this on iTunes would have thought he was talking about our

Starting point is 00:09:11 residential space. He's saying the same things, using the same language, drawing the same analogies, right? It's quite literally the same. There's just a function of how you utilize that asset, right? How are you going to exit it? Why are you going to acquire it? And then how are you going to exit it? And so I just really wanted to highlight the fact that he's actually in a different asset space typically, but it resonates with all of us, including me, right? As I'm buying, I just closed on another rental in Dayton, Ohio. Great town. The vacation capital of the world. Just kidding. That's a great town. Great town for especially a buy and hold. You're not going to see a lot of appreciation. You're not going to see a lot of depreciation, or I guess

Starting point is 00:09:57 depreciation for me, but you're not going to see a big fall when the market shifts. Great for that. Let me ask you you just because you did say it's a great town. Any particular reason you like that town? Is it more personal or for business or what? So my investors are very wealthy people for the most part. Everybody's accredited. I've been doing this for a long time. So I have a lot of family offices. I have a lot of I have a few billionaires and multimillionaires who invest with me and people invest anywhere between say 25,000, if they're just getting started to let's say a million dollars per deal. And one of my biggest investors is a family, two sisters who were in their seventies and eighties. And they called me one

Starting point is 00:10:43 day and they said, we need you to go look at an industrial building in Dayton that we own. And I said, okay. So I drove from Chicago to Dayton as a favor to them. And I said, wow, it's right on the highway. It's right on 70. Isn't that the main road there? And I looked at this building. I said, it's fantastic. You should keep it forever because it's always going to be a good building. So I drive around in industrial parks. Every town has an industrial park. Big cities have big ones, little cities.

Starting point is 00:11:12 It's usually called industrial drive. And I focus on small buildings, under a million dollars, $3 million. Every town has them. And Dayton has a nice little industrial park. And that's how I know it because I did a favor for one of my investors. Yeah. Yeah. And I like it for why you gave the same, again, I keep drawing these parallels because it's important. You told those sisters to keep that building because it'll be a good building forever. It's the same reason why I bought this house. Solid house. It'll be a great house forever,

Starting point is 00:11:46 right? It'll just be a great rental area, great market. I'd call it a B minus neighborhood. Perfect price point. So I say that again to kind of bring up this analogy of like everyone's trying to decide what vertical they want to be in. whether again, if it's the Grant Cardone, I've spent a lot of time with Grant recently. He continues to impress upon me doing a 200 unit deals as easy as doing a single family deal. Easier. Say what? Easier. It's easier.

Starting point is 00:12:16 See, I just, again, being, and I keep pushing back on him. Like, yeah, but I've, it's just a single house. It's 125 grand. Yours is 125 million. Right. And he's like, dude, it's just, it's just extra single house. It's 125 grand. Yours is 125 million, right? And he's like, dude, it's just extra zeros. Everything else is the same. And so obviously you're echoing this. But again- I like Midwestern towns.

Starting point is 00:12:36 The Midwest is great because the cap rates, if you're looking at that, are much better here than they are in New York and New Jersey and in California where you're seeing ridiculously low cap rates. My investors and I could not tolerate the cap rates that they're getting out there. And so I did the vast majority of my career spent in Phoenix. And as a whole, Phoenix is an incredible, incredible city for investing, right?

Starting point is 00:13:04 There's all these different qualifiers for the major sports teams to the growth opportunity to the industries that are coming there, etc. Right. But man, trying to buy a rental there over the last two years, versus buying a rental, I bought nine in Birmingham, Alabama. Like, it's just not even comparable relative to the return on your investment right whether you want to use cap rate which is more commercial and industrial used or cash on cash return like you just can't beat it now would I rather a property in Phoenix mostly yeah there's a lot more growth and over the time there will be a lot more appreciation but when you're just talking

Starting point is 00:13:42 about a good solid safe investment that is safe as you can get it, the Midwest, what I even call the Sunbelt States, right? I just love it. The Rust Belt States. The Rust Belt States. Right. Yeah, there you go. Everybody's clamoring to be in the Sunbelt, except for us. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:14:03 There's an opening in the midwest it's a great place it and there is like i'll give you an example i was looking at a duplex today i think the seller wanted 85 000 in cleveland ohio it's currently currently without any improvements renting for 1400 a month i mean you just don't find that and, you know, anywhere. Yeah, try San Francisco. No, not a chance, right? You're not you're not getting a parking spot on the street for $85,000 a year. Right? You know, so. So let's dive in a little bit about your expertise and what you've been able to do, which I think is so incredible and the opportunity that this this real estate market poses

Starting point is 00:14:45 for what you do and potential listeners on what they could potentially do here in the industrial space. Sure. Well, if anybody has any questions about industrial, I've been doing this for 40 years and I can answer the questions. People call me, I'm a member of a group called the Society of Industrial and Office Realtors. And it's a group of very experienced and successful industrial real estate people. A lot of them are brokers, they represent tenants, they represent companies looking to lease out or sell properties. And I have access through making one phone call to any industrial broker in the United States. And I use that very often, usually at least once or twice a week, I'm doing something, some kind of favor for a client

Starting point is 00:15:32 or an investor of mine. What I do that's different than most of my friends who are in the multifamily space is I deal with one tenant at a time. Our buildings are single tenant and they're net leased, which means the tenant pays the taxes, the insurance, the maintenance, and the utilities. The management is easy and tenants sign long-term leases, five years, seven years, 10 years. So I've decided that I like to stick with what I do. I know it really well. And so I'm hyper focused on industrial and I'm hyper focused on the Chicago market. And that's it. There's 1,300,000,000 square feet of industrial and 20,000 companies here that they're in industrial. it takes a long time to break in because it's sort of like an old boys network. The brokers and the owners know each other. And if you get started, I made a call when I was a young kid to someone who was very experienced and he said, who's this? What do you want? I don't have any slam. Right now I'm that guy.

Starting point is 00:16:39 I'm the old guy who has all the properties. And when the young people call me, I know that usually one out of four will make it and the other three will be gone. And it's hard to be serious with people who aren't in the business quite yet. But my whole focus has become safety, safety, safety. I am into low debt. Sometimes I buy properties with a group of investors. I let like 15 investors know I found something and they put in $100,000 or $25,000. So I syndicate the deal, buy it all cash, and then we lease it to a tenant that's usually a manufacturer. And manufacturers are sticky

Starting point is 00:17:22 because what they do is they put machines in and they have people working there, like 60 employees. They don't want to move because they don't want to lose their employees by moving to the other side of town. And they don't want to unhook all these machines and unscrew the bolts and move everything. It's very expensive to do. So industrial is a strange niche. I would say that overall, there's more industrial square footage in this country than retail and multifamily combined. People don't necessarily know that. And if you drive by some of these giant industrial buildings on the tollway, they're these precast buildings are 35 feet clear. And they're full of companies like Amazon and Wayfair. And that's not what we do.

Starting point is 00:18:07 We buy the older buildings. Instead of precast beautiful walls, they're bricks. They're not quite as pretty, but they're steady. We buy them to keep them. But the statistic is for us, every fourth building we buy is a flip within six months. Interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating. The companies in the area that make products need a place to make them. It's a tool for their business. It's not really real estate to them. So they'll pay a premium of, let's say, 30% over what an investor would pay.

Starting point is 00:18:39 So one story as an example, I was looking to buy a property from the gas company. It was a 40,000 foot building on a six acre site in probably the most dangerous neighborhood in Chicago. There's a shooting map and it shows little dots. This person died. This person just was hurt and went to the hospital. This property was there, but I knew it had value and I did a tremendous amount of due diligence and realized that the price we were paying was fair. And I called an industrial broker friend of mine just to ask him a question about it as I was doing my due diligence. And he says, hey, I've got a buyer. And the buyer was a guy who is in the pork packing business. He literally brings in chopped up hogs

Starting point is 00:19:28 and he's got 120 guys in there chopping them up and making them into ribs and pork chops. And he needed a building in that neighborhood for a specific reason. And he came and saw it the day after I talked to this broker and he said, I've got to buy this. I must have it. And I just had a contract. I hadn't even bought it yet. I

Starting point is 00:19:50 said, well, I'll sell you the contract. And he said, would you take a million and a half over your contract? I said, yeah, sure. I guess we can make that happen. Yeah. Now it turns out that's not how it works because he did his due diligence and ended up saying to me, I can't pay anywhere near that much. So people who do good due diligence, they're on all sides of a deal. It can hurt us and it can help us. Sure. Yeah. Did you end up selling it to him just at a lower value?

Starting point is 00:20:20 We did. We did. We became very close friends because he got a great deal. He bought it for $600,000 more. So he calls all the time to thank me. So did you assign it like you would in single family space? Exactly the same thing. It was an assignment. I had to get approval from the seller, which was the local gas company for the states of Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin. Interesting. Yeah. So I had to deal with their lawyer and I said, Hey, can I sign this? And they said, no. And I said, well, then I'm not going to buy it. It took a big risk. Yeah. They said, okay, you can assign it. So be willing to walk away is, is the lesson there.

Starting point is 00:20:57 Cause you're, you're taking a big risk when you say, well, then I got to go. Right. Right. The alternative would have been to buy it and then sell it to him after we bought it. But she still would have made money, but closing costs and everything else and fees. And yeah, yeah. It's better to sell the contract for sure. Again, parallels to industrial. So let's, let's talk about something I've found pretty cool. And you now are talking briefly before, which is the parallels and or differences between investing in real estate and gambling. Oh, that is my favorite topic. Where would you like to start?

Starting point is 00:21:30 Well, when I was younger, I raised millions of dollars and bought dozens of buildings with debt. And I went through four separate downturns. And two of those downturns nearly literally put me, I would say, into a mental or an emotional depression. Because I had a lot of risk on. I had a lot of mortgages. In 2008, which is when industrial went bad, I had seven banks. I had 60 investors who had loaned me money. And I thought I was rich. And then Lehman Brothers went out of business and the economy tanked. And I went from rich to being so far in debt that it felt like I was underwater and someone was holding me down and trying to drown me.

Starting point is 00:22:27 And I decided that I was going to fight it out and not go bankrupt like a lot of my friends had. And a lot of my friends were, by the way, in residential and went bankrupt because they had too much debt as well when things went bad. So I fought through it and survived it. But I literally can tell you that there were days when I thought about ending my life, I thought that I had blown all of this money. And that I was letting all these people down. And that I'd have to start over after going bankrupt. And there'd be this big article in the paper, hey, Joel's in deep trouble, what a disaster. I avoided that, but I didn't avoid a depression. And what I realized after coming out of that is that I don't have the tolerance for the risk that I was taking at that time. And I had to figure out strategies to take less risk, because I didn't want to end up broke.

Starting point is 00:23:27 And so I look at it this way. I think I was a real estate gambler. And I think a lot of people don't know that there's a line between investing and gambling. There's an organization that's called Gamblers Anonymous. And I have some very close friends who are real serious gamblers, mostly sports gamblers and casino gamblers. And I've been to the meetings and I can tell you that I fit in. When they were talking about, they read 20 questions. Are you a gambler? And if you answer yes to seven of them, you're officially a compulsive gambler. And I answered yes to more than seven of them. And I looked at it and I looked back at my career and I said, shit, I'm not an investor, I'm a gambler. And what I do now is I talk to my investors about the fact that I am not a gambler

Starting point is 00:24:22 and I've given that up. And the way that you give it up is you have to do great due diligence. You have to make sure your debt makes sense. You just have to not be taking risks. You have to do everything possible not to end up back on the couch with the depression because you're underwater and someone's pushing you under with too much debt or too much risk. I do what's called risk off. That's my philosophy. And this applies whether you're buying multifamily, one house, two houses, apartment buildings, industrial office buildings, doesn't matter. There's a book written by a guy named Kirk Kerkorian, one of the richest billionaire real estate guys. He owned casinos in Vegas and movie studios. The title of the book is

Starting point is 00:25:06 The Gambler. And he blew it all later in life. It was too late and he couldn't get it back. When I say he blew it all, he lost maybe 8 billion and only had 2 billion left. Fair. It's all relative, right? Right, right, right, right. Yeah. If you have 80,000 and you only have 20,000 left feels real bad that's right yeah for sure so well i think one of my favorite topics is that gambling issue yeah and i think there was a lot of people that did that over the last two years specifically right i'm i'm a part of some masterminds and some high level stuff where, uh, because I did make it through 2008. Um, I took my chips off the table risk off, uh, for the most part for the last two years.

Starting point is 00:25:53 And I ended up wholesaling most of my deals that were absolutely deals. And even to my friends, and they would say, why do you keep selling these to me? I'm making 80 grand while you're making 20. Because I knew today, what we're all going through was going to happen. I just, I thought it was gonna happen during COVID. It didn't. And so I just said, it's gonna happen. It's inevitable. At some point, we are going to have this. So I just took all my risk off the table, right? And I don't have any risk. I mean, I'm buying rentals, but that's calculated debt to your point. I understand the interest rate versus the rental rate versus the market versus, you know, but I would tell you, I think, in my opinion, there's always a way to spin the data to your

Starting point is 00:26:40 favor. You can always go tell a private lender or someone that, hey, this is the numbers, it's going to be amazing. And that's where I think people get in a lot of trouble is when they're trying to sell the deal. The deal should essentially sell itself. The numbers should ring very, very true in a very low conservative number. I don't like taking the risk to say, once I bring it up to value, once I bring it to wherever and make it performing, then it will be a good deal. It should be a good deal when you buy it. Do you want to hear something really cynical? What's that? My three rules of real estate, when people ask me, what are the three rules of real estate? This is going to sound really bad, but this is what I've learned in 40 years. Everybody lies. Everybody lies. Everybody lies. And the worst lie is when you lie to yourself because you try to convince yourself that something that isn't

Starting point is 00:27:36 right is right. And that's where you're gambling and where you're making the mistake. And so when I say to a new investor, these are my three rules, they almost immediately invest with me because they say, in my business, those are the three rules also. It's universal. It's really something how that works. And so what I'm trying to do, I think the risk off and the whole concept of not gambling is just not lying to yourself and knowing who you are.

Starting point is 00:28:07 If you are a gambler and you're willing to lose everything, go in and say, hey, I'm going to lose everything. And you better tell your wife because that's the other thing. When people start taking these risks, they don't tell their wife. They don't tell their closest people. They secretly get in trouble. And then they have to open up and say, let me tell you what just happened. I'm so sorry. I secretly get in trouble. And then they have to like open up and say, let me tell you what just happened. I'm so sorry. I'm in such trouble. So if you can't tell

Starting point is 00:28:31 your wife and you can't tell your, your closest smart advisors, what you're doing, you are gambling. That's the definition. It's when you lie and you take risk and you're afraid of it. Cause you know that if you tell someone else they're going to call bullshit on you yeah it's uh interestingly enough as i was engaged i went through the toughest deal that i've ever gone through it wasn't the biggest financial loss although it was a loss there was so many nuances of and like just it was just ugly and it was financially ugly but also there was financially ugly. But also there was some personal friends involved. And it just got really, really ugly. And I told her all about it while it

Starting point is 00:29:12 was happening. Because we were engaged about to be married. This is literally like two months before we got married, right. And it was one of the greatest things I ever did. Cause it also showed, I don't want to say loyalty as if she's like, uh, you know, but she just supported and she kept in my corner and she just never made it a thing. And, you know, she kind of had that attitude, like, Hey, you're in business and you'll get through it type of thing. And so it was just funny how you bring that up. And it definitely relates to me in the sense of like, I totally could have kept it from her. And that weight and that stress and that anxiety would have weighed on me. And who knows how happy we are very happy. And who knows if that would have actually been the case if I would have, you know, tunneled that down. And, you know,

Starting point is 00:30:00 everyone in this game, to finish my thought, if you're in the game long enough, you've done bad deals. I don't care, you know, who you are. To your point, lying to yourself is the worst part. You know, kind of finding that like, why did I do that bad deal? Oh, I forced a square peg in a round hole. I just wanted it so bad. I forced it. Or why did I do that deal?

Starting point is 00:30:23 And why did I structure this or whatever? So it's something that everyone has to come to terms with if you're going to be in this game is at some point you will have a deal go bad. And you'll have to rectify it with yourself above all else. And that affects mental health. Sure. You're mentally healthy, I think, if you can be honest with yourself. And you've got to be curious, you got to ask all the right questions to make sure you make a good judgment. When you ignore asking those questions, because you want to do something without being super careful about it. That causes literally, unfortunately, today, this is terrible. I,

Starting point is 00:31:02 one of the young brokers in our Chicago industrial brokerage community committed suicide on Saturday and this week. And mental health is the thing. You've got to stay mentally healthy. You have to know who you are. And if you're not a gambler, you shouldn't be gambling and you shouldn't be lying to yourself or anybody else that's close to you. I've got another really close friend who's

Starting point is 00:31:25 in real trouble. His wife filed for divorce because he put a second mortgage on his house to go invest in some real estate deals. And he didn't tell her. And then he lost. And then he had to tell her. And she said, Oh my God, like what's our marriage? If you can't tell me what you're doing. I mean, that's my philosophy. And again, I'm not going to put any judgment on anyone. It's not for me or you or anyone to judge, but I got married old enough. I got married at 39. I was a late bloomer. I enjoyed my thirties and I just have a different perspective. I've had enough people like yourself and others that I've been able to watch during my thirties and have seen scenarios like you described. And I said, ah, I've been able to watch during my 30s and have seen scenarios like you described. And I said, I'm not going to want to do that when I'm married. I'm not going to.

Starting point is 00:32:09 And so I think it's really important to, I mean, now we're talking a little bit more about marriage, but, you know, just business is a marriage, right? And I think that is what we as entrepreneurs have to also realize is you have two marriages, one to your significant other, and then one to your business. And you need to have those world, in my opinion, collide in a good way, intermingle in a good way. You don't have your business life in your personal life. It is one life. And I say that a lot, like you have one life, right? And so you need to be able to one way or another, again, I don't want to say collide as if it's opposing, but like intermingle the two. And that's important, basically about communication. Right? I will tell you and you maybe have gone through the season, but I've been traveling more for work

Starting point is 00:32:58 than I have in a decade. Someone that I'm now at a place of influence in the space of real estate that I'm asked to be on stages. I am putting forth the best effort to provide value to my current tribe, all these different things that's creating travel. So I have to be open to my wife about here's, if we want X, what I need to do to go achieve X are these things. If you don't want X or an okay not having it, then I don't have to do these. So where does this stand? And then I can get feedback, right? But all in all, it doesn't matter what's happening.

Starting point is 00:33:37 We need to treat our business as a marriage and intermingle our actual personal marriage into it and do good business and have a good relationship because we're only here for a short amount of time. So I just would echo everything you're saying there. Yeah. I think that living a good life is why I do real estate. I don't, I don't look at real estate as a way to make a living. I look at it as a way to build relationships and to make healthy decisions with people that I care about. And I know my investors and they know me. We know each other's families,

Starting point is 00:34:16 or at least we know about each other's families. And I believe strongly what you just said is the most important thing in any deal or in any business. It's figuring out how to be a forgiver because everybody makes mistakes around you and you can't be this angry, ranting, raving person. It's very, very tough to be that way and maintain relationships. And other parts of relationships that matter really drive me to continue doing what I'm doing. If it was just for the real estate alone, I'd stop. Sure.

Starting point is 00:34:51 It's about the people. Yeah. It's a people business. And I love that. That's what drives my fuel. I'm a people person. So I have a podcast. Get to interview great folks like yourself, right?

Starting point is 00:35:01 I mean, that's what it's all about. Yeah, I think that is what it's all about. Well, to wrap up, I'd love for people to get ahold of you however they can. Where would you like them to find you? Brit Properties, B-R-I-T Properties.com. We have a property management business and we had a property manager named Brad. And we had to name the company. I sold my bigger company

Starting point is 00:35:27 and ended up starting a smaller company later on. And we had to come up with a name. And Brad said, what are we going to call it? I said, it's Brit for Brad really is terrific. Look at that. That's great. Look at that. Britproperties.com.

Starting point is 00:35:44 Right on. Well, Joel, I appreciate your time today. Thank you for giving some love to the audience. Hopefully you keep rocking. You obviously have something very special. So thank you for taking your time today. Really important to us here at The Science Flipping. And I appreciate you.

Starting point is 00:36:00 It's been my pleasure. Thank you. All right. See you. It's been my pleasure. Thank you. All right. See you.

The Science of Flipping - Gambling in Real Estate is a Risky Play - Why You Should Avoid It | Joel Friedland

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