The Science of Flipping - How a Recession in 2025 Will Reshape Real Estate Investing | Chris Naugle

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

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You will be in a pretty severe recession in 2025. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. When this election is done, it doesn't matter who gets in. Okay, Trump, Kennedy, Biden, it doesn't matter who gets in. The market is going to go down. The reason the Fed hasn't dropped rates yet is because they know this is going to come. They don't want to exhaust their bag of weapons before they actually have this recession. So they're pushing it.

Like, listen, folks, I've been doing this 21 years. I can't call myself an economist, but that's all I study and all I read. Every single economist that's actually worth something will tell you the same story. What is up, the Science Flipping family? I am back with a very close personal friend of mine, someone who knows a whole lot about real estate, a whole lot about raising private money, and how to be efficient and effective doing both things. Also, side note, ex-TV star, ex-Pro snowboarder, Chris Malgo is here, dude.

What's up? How much, man? Thanks for having me on. Man, excited about this. Let's talk. We're going to have fun here. We're going to have a lot of fun talking about raising money, doing real estate. You know, one of the things that you've done really, really well over the last at least five years of, you know, knowing you better and better is understanding money, understanding finances.

You have a background in being a financial planner or advisor, I should say. But let's just get right into like the state of real estate. What's going on with money? How can people find more money? All these things I want to get into in this episode. Where do you want to start? Gosh, I don't know. I mean, we talk about the current state of where real estate's at.

And obviously, it's just an opinion. But real estate, like the stock market, is cyclical. And we've been kind of on this little bell curve. I would say it's a pretty steep curve up where pricing's gone up. Demand has been there. Money was cheap and plentiful. I mean, $5.1, $5.2 trillion goes quite a long way, but we're starting to kind of come to the end of that.

So now you're starting to see that cycle go around the other side and you're starting to see real estate pull back. People are actually starting to want to have conversations about actually selling their houses again because they're like, hey, kind of getting used to these higher rates. You know, I see pricing coming down.

Maybe now it's time to do it. So I feel like this little lockup that's been going on in real estate is starting to break. People are starting to really, you know, start moving and shaking with selling and buying houses. And I think what you're going to see is pricing is going to soften. You know, we're seeing that, you know, where we're at. You're seeing that out here in Florida. And as pricing softens, the person that's going to win the game is the person

that's got the money. There's a lot of money. Let's get straight to it. Listen, he's also a founder. If you didn't know this, he's a founder of Private Money Club. I want to talk a lot about this because there's a lot of money on the sidelines. I mean, a lot. Tons. I mean, trillions. Like if you even go and look at how much money is actually just in retirement accounts in the United States, we're talking trillions of dollars stuck in retirement accounts. And a lot of people don't even know what the hell we're even talking about, right? Those aren't the listeners typically to this episode. But let's talk about the private money side and who's going to win when the market softens. Well, that's the thing. Think about it. As the market softens, this is happening

real time right now. Banks don't want to lend. I'm being honest, like go to the bank, try to get a loan for your property. It's not what it was three, four, five years ago. It's not easy getting money from banks. Hard money lenders, maybe right now they're still lending, but they're starting to seize up too. When we lose the stock market, which I'll tell you will be after the election, we will absolutely start to lose the economy in the stock market when this election's over. And as that happens, banks are going to stop wanting to lend, just like now. And when banks won't lend and hard money lenders don't want to lend, people are like, oh, game over. Can't get money to do deals.

That's when you start going and getting deals. Because when the prices come down, you want to seize the opportunity. You want to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. So the thing that you said is money is plentiful. There's tons of it, but it's not where most people go, which is the bank. It's people like me and you, people like our friends and our circle. So let me talk a little bit about Private Money Club. So Private Money Club started on a napkin. I'll never forget. I was with Steven. We were speaking at an event about the BYOB stuff.

And I sold him. I said, I got this idea. I want to create a dating site for money. And he kind of laughed at me. And he's like, what do you mean? Like where people go on and date just people that have money? I said, no, no, no, no, no. I said, I want it to work like a dating site.

Because dating sites are really cool. You got men and you got women and you got a community in the middle. And you kind of go through. You pick and choose. set your features and boom, you go on a date. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe you have kids. Maybe you don't. But that's how a dating site works. Then Tinder came out, swipe left, swipe right. So I'm like, dude, that's what we need to create. There's a ton of people that have money and every person that has money has the same problem. They want to make more. And then the other side of the coin, so let's just talk about a coin.

There's two sides, heads and tails, people with money, and then there's people that need money. When the real estate market starts getting nice and frothy again, people are going to need money to buy those deals. If banks aren't giving it, where are they going to go? People that have money, and they're going to solve their problem by making them more money.

So people that need money to make more money, that's the other side of the coin. So I just said, there's two types of people in the world. Why is there not one place where they can come and meet and talk and do deals together? Private deals, no banks allowed, no institutions allowed. So I drew a circle on a piece of paper. On one side, I put people with money and the other side, I put people that need money. In the middle, I said, community and education. And I said, let's let these people just meet on one place. Private Money Club was born. We launched 2022 and the software was very expensive to build. And when we launched, it was a huge hit. And today we got over 6,000 members, well into the

hundreds of millions of dollars in deal flow, but we're launching 3.0, which is literally going to, it's coming out of left field. It's going to blow people away. We're literally going to disrupt the banking industry. So where do people meet at? PrivateMoneyClub.com? PrivateMoneyClub.com. Totally free. If you guys are looking for money to finance deals, if you're out there trying to find deals, marketing for deals, and you need money, you go to PrivateMoneyClub.com. It's totally free. Yeah. I mean, you go, why doesn't everyone in the industry do this? Anyone who cares about it? I don't know about it yet. Let's get it out there. Private money club.com. Make sure you know about it. By the way, follow Chris Noggle, the Chris Noggle on all the platforms that the Chris Noggle, uh, he's a, well, I mean,

you got to get to know him. There's a lot that he does that we won't have time for, but okay. So just because I want to know what's going to be version three. Do you want to get inbound motivated sellers calling you and become an authority in your market? Look no further than Tony Javier's 10X TV. Tony has been doing TV commercials to find consistent motivated sellers for over a decade for his business. It is the main reason he has been able to purchase over a thousand properties. he will use his proven formula to get high quality leads calling you and even setting it up for you get in front of ten times more people ten times faster ten times cheaper with ten times more credibility

than any other marketing channel. Surprisingly, TV has little to no competition and can get you a steady flow of motivated seller leads. If you want to see why over 100 real estate investors use Tony to run their TV commercials, go to 10xtv.co to see if there's a spot available in your market. Again, go to 10xtTV.co. The biggest complaints I have in there is as it's gotten busier and more popular, I mean, we've been- 6,000 users? I think it's even over that now. I don't even know. I mean, it's probably 7,000 now. If you were a SaaS software that charged, you would have a multiple that would be massive. But the money's in the data. Take a note from Mark Zuckerberg in Facebook. He didn't charge anybody for Facebook.

He could have. He didn't want ads in there because it would make it uncool. But where he figured out to make money is number one, marketing, like the advertising part, but the data is how they made the money. Private Money Club is the ultimate. I understand money really well, come from the Wall Street background. The data that we get, and we don't sell data, trade data or anything, but the data we have is data that is very rare in the industry because we get and we don't sell data trade data or anything but the data we have is data that is very rare in the industry because we know people's habits for money and there's not many institutions or many sites that can do that you might be able to figure out who's going out at night but how do you know who's got a million dollars that will fund your deal at 12 to 15

private money club.com is how you know the search functionality is so robust the data on the back and we built the site it's a 2.1 million dollar build ground up completely rent you financed it i'm self-financing holy hell good for you oh yeah yeah it's good tax write-off though great tax there you go um but but a couple of the things that we've got happening so you got lenders and you got borrowers totally free from for both to come in. But the borrowers, because there's so many of them, they can either post it in the forum or we call it the discussion page, or they can just post it in the deal page. There's so many deals going up on there. If you post your deal in the morning, by the afternoon, it's probably pay four pages deep. So what we created is a certification, the first of its

kind for private lenders. So we created a lending and a borrowing certification program, which now if you get certified on PMC, which that is not free, that does cost, you then get a box around your profile, kind of think like blue check mark, but it's actually more robust that carries through on everything else you do. So now when you're in there posting your deal, your deal will look different than the other thousand deals on there. And it will say certified borrower, or if you're a lender, certified lender, then we created groups just by a historical resume of like you've borrowed, you've done good, you've repaid loans, or is it is a simple like, pay, fill out some information? How do you get certified? Like what would make someone certified versus not? So you do pay. So it's 1000 bucks a year for the certification. And then there's a

course, it's education, you go through all the certification courses, you pass through final exam at the end. Nobody likes taking tests, but Hey, that's how certifications work. Once you pass, you are now a certified member. Okay. The other things that can set you apart in 3.0 is all the badges. So if you've done five deals, you get, there's hundreds of badges you can get and you can pick and choose and customize lenders obviously are going to love the five badge certified right now you're just like the golden boy for borrowing so think i'm a lender right i'm primarily lending on pmc i'm going to go in there and i'm looking through all these deals which deals do you think i'm going to search for certified borrowers and borrowers that have you know done a couple deals or have certain badges

and i can search all of that but for borrowers what a borrower can do is they can post a deal in the discussion, kind of feel it out. Then they can put it in the deal page. There's no cost for any of that. And then they can go in and they can search. I want to see all the lenders that have 250,000 or more to lend that are willing to lend between 12% that live in this area. You can get as finite as you want with the search functionality and it will literally populate all the lenders. And then you can just message them, send them your deals and communicate. So this removes, you know, back in the day, there was a couple of softwares that we're aware of that was just a list provider of people who have lent privately. Absolutely not. We do not. We're not doing this to create leads. We don't take your info and sell

it off to banks and institutions. It is literally just, you're not selling a product. So that that's unique in the space of like, again, you know, whether it's REI lead machine, which I've developed, you can go find who private lenders are, but you don't have the ability to go present them a deal and share. There's no community around it. I would have to literally search them out, cold call them, send them a direct mail piece, door knock them, whatever the case is to get ahold of that private lender. I didn't want any of that crap. Yeah. I didn't want that because I hate that. Just like you hate that, right?

You think you found what you're looking for. You're looking for money for your deal and you go on and, oh my God, here's all the lenders. And then all of a sudden you click a button and then you got to put your info in and then they sell your data to all these other pieces. Right. People that try to sell you something. We don't do that. So the money in this game, so it's been a good tax write-off for me up to this point, but the money is in scaling. So when I have hundreds of thousands or millions of users,

we have so much data. Then what we can do is we can go out and find real estate attorneys, title companies. We can go out and find construction companies for certain areas. And when someone searches something in there, boom, their ad pops up. Just think Google Analytics. It's the same algorithms that we will be using in PMC, but that's where the money's at. It's just, you got to play the game and you got to put the money in to get to that point where the company's worth what it is. Man, I love that. As someone who's built a tech company and recently is really going to go for it, I know the lift that this takes to go for tech. But I think there's a human component that you're talking about is unique to to go for. I know the lift that this takes to go for tech, but I think there's

a human component that you're talking about is unique to private money club, the community part, the educational part that is unique, right? Like I said, I have a software called Aria lead machine that I can get their information, but there's no community involved around it. I have to call them after, you know, they get to learn who I am. I have to indoctrinate them to what I've done. This is all organically happening within the community 100 it is and I and it's it's not new so this has been around three years now just I think well October will be the third year so we've we've built one heck of a community and it's so cool because number one the education that's on there we do monthly trainings group trainings so anyone and that's just certified members but

um we have so much free education my whole thing and you know me but a long time ago a mentor said something to me and i think i maybe took it too serious but i've made my whole life about this it was greg reed you know greg and i was at his event that i couldn't afford to be at and i said greg because i was at a hard time i said give me your best advice he puts his hand on my shoulder and leans into me and he says chris i'm gonna give you your best advice. He puts his hand on my shoulder and leans into me and he says, Chris, I'm going to give you the best advice I can give. I'm like, yes, give it to me. And he says, give your best stuff away for free. I'm like, you son of a bitch. That's what I just spent money to come to this event. Give it away for free. Right, Greg. That's the secret. But it

is because it's a universal law. If you give, you get. We all know that. I literally have made a fortune just giving stuff away for free. PMC is the ultimate gift because I don't get in the middle of deals. So 3.0 has what's called the credit shop. So when you become a certified member, we preload credits in there. You can use those credits to buy education, courses, coaching. You can use it to, I call it flair, and that's what's going to be called in there. You can flair your deals. You can say, oh, I want my deal highlighted. I want this bolded. I want the background splashed with this color. All those cost a couple credits, but you just upload it just like you would a Starbucks app. The more you use PMC, the more credits we actually give you

and rewards we give you or badges we give you. So I literally, how I'm doing this, I'm having so much fun with it is I'm just going out there and I'm like, what are all the sites that I use the most and what do I like and what do I not like? You hit some of the things you don't like, like when you go on somewhere and you think you got the answer for you want, then all of a sudden you hit the paywall. Right. Or right over, now you got to put your data in so that somebody can then try to hit you on their paywall because they're just selling your data. I hate that. Yeah.

So I said, none of that's going to exist. And people said I was crazy. They said, you got to go SaaS with this. I said, you can't go SaaS because the regulations for what we're doing here don't allow you to charge. So the reason it had to be free is because we had to be regulatory. We had to go through a real crazy legal roadmap to be legal in every single state. And the only state we have trouble with is Colorado. Colorado residents cannot lend in Colorado, as funny as that is. You have to be a mortgage broker. So if you put in your Colorado and you're trying to lend on a Colorado deal, you can't.

Interesting, the stuff that you learned. So stupid. this wasn't just a whimsical idea you had, you are a real estate investor. And to this day, you still are a real estate investor. Let's talk about kind of like your journey there. And what have you, how would this have changed what you did in the real estate space? Yeah. So it's interesting. I mean, I'm not going to get into my backstory. I've done a lot of things from pro snowboarder to financial advisor, but when I was an advisor, I remember like mostly during 2008, my wealthiest clients were in real estate and they would always tell me, Chris, you just got to get into real estate. You just got to get into real estate. So I did my first flip in 06, another one in 07, and I developed a strip

mall in 2008 and almost went bankrupt doing it. But in 2009 to 14, I started buying apartment buildings. Perfect time, but I lost them all in 14. So I was no stranger to real estate, but I always was on the borrowing side. I was always that real estate investor that needed money for every deal. Well, me and my wife, as you know, we went for it to get an HGTV show. We ended up airing on HGTV in 2018 with our show Risky Builders. But while we were doing that, we had met our friend Greg. And I'll never forget, Greg was speaking at an event.

He said to me, he said, Chris, after the event, he said, Chris, the ultimate in real estate is being the bank. I didn't know what that meant. I just thought, okay, so that means I got to flip millions of dollars worth of houses

so that I got money to be the bank. That's what I thought it meant. But then all of a sudden I kind of did that. I flipped a lot of houses. We sold all of our rentals off during pandemic and I had a pretty good size of money and I now wanted to lend. So now I went from the borrower, okay, the one side of the coin to now I'm the lender, which I thought this is going to be easy. I just put a post up on Facebook or I go to Ria's and I just talk to people about, hey, you need some money. People would literally say, oh yeah, I'm looking for 150 grand. And I'm like, great. You know, do you have a proposal? And they write an address down. Are you freaking, whoa, are you serious? I don't want to do the work. Like I'm busy. Like I got the money. So

bring me your deal. Well, I did. That's the address. Look it up. That's literally how I kind of got into this whole thing. Why I wrote private money guide. The first book I wrote and what got me to here, I had money to lend, but it was not easy finding good borrowers. I didn't. And I started searching. I literally did the same thing. I started saying, all right, well, there's got to be a place where I can go, where I could find good borrowers like I was that I can lend my money to. There wasn't. And that's where the whole idea of that little napkin and that idea of like, why isn't there a dating site for money? I mean, everybody knows how dating sites work. Like that now exists. Yes. Big business. I mean, big, big business. And

I think that the key that I think is the big win is the community. The reason why I keep harping on that is anyone who's ever lent me a dollar has been in and around my communities somewhere, whether they're a part of my actual science flipping community, whether they are a part of a mastermind like boardroom that we're both in, whether they're friends or fans, like they're in my world. So when I go and raise private money, I call it the three circles. You have your inner circle, outer circle, and social circle. It always comes from one of those three. This adds a fourth dimension of a circle

that you could maybe throw into a social circle, but they don't go into this community knowing one another, right? And so the development of the relationship can happen within the community. And that's why you're able to borrow more and more money because people ultimately trust you. And they do business with those they know, like and trust. And this is a prayer answered for however many millions of real estate investors is because it brings a format that you are going to meet real people that rent lend on money and you can create those relationships with inside the community and they can be your lender for lifetime because the communal aspect

of this are you doing any type of like events within the community or anything that like bring people you know face to face shaking hands breaking bread communities everything and culture is even more important within private money clubs so here's how we do that. So every Monday we do a webinar called Money Club Monday, where we allow borrowers and lenders to come on. Anyone that's part of PMC can kind of put their name and number in to come on and do it. And they can present their deal. We'll usually present four or five deals on Money Club Monday. So that's one way. So now you're building that community. Once a month, we do a two-hour group training for members where they can come on. You can see everybody start getting that. But then we also do the money tank events. So we do

two, sometimes three, sometimes we'll squeeze a third. And we've been averaging two per year, which are big events. Usually a couple hundred people come and it's where people that you knew online, you now literally shake their hand. You're now like, oh my God, that's you. You're that person on there. Oh, I see your deals all the time. That community is very, very real. But you hit something on the head. When you go to a bank and you borrow money for a real estate deal, you're not building a relationship because when you come back with your next deal to the same loan officer, they treat you like you just walked in off the street. You're starting over. When you work with private lenders, you're building a real relationship. And the worst day in a private lender's week is when they find out they're getting their money back.

Yeah. Because then this check stops. That's right. Right? Now I got my money back. Oh, my God. It's like a hot potato. What do I do with this?

I got to find another deal. So it makes sense. Hey, do you have another deal? We had a good experience. You just paid me off on a deal. That was great. You got another deal? Well, actually, yeah. I'm looking at this one. Let, do you have another deal? We had a good experience. You know, you just paid me off on a deal. That was great. Like, you got another deal? Well, actually, yeah, I'm looking at this one. Let me send you over the packet. But the other thing that we've done is we've created lots of education templates. We got templates for promissory notes for mortgages

and perfect loan proposal. And what I did is back when I wrote the book, I had borrowed from banks hundreds of times. And I knew the bank formula. Here's what the bank's going to ask you for. So why wait to be asked? Why don't I just bring everything to the bank before I even get there? And then they can't say no to me, right? And it actually worked. That's right. They would literally say, well, yeah, we'll do this deal because I had everything but the application for the bank. So I said, all right, well, let's mimic that for private lending. Let's answer all lenders questions with one packet so they don't have to ask. Let's include tax returns, personal financial statements, supporting documents, the deal, comps, appraisals, everything in one packet. So if you're a borrower

and you need money from me and you're closing next week, I literally flipped through. I might try to find some questions, but at the end of the day, it's like, great. I mean, what are you willing? You know, you said you wanted to borrow at 12. Are you willing to go 15? I'll do it at 15 first lien. Yeah, I think I can do that. Done deal. Now you just built a relationship that will carry on deal after deal after deal after deal.

I know that to be true because I lend to the same people I've been lending to for five plus years now because they've been good operators. What is so internally is the negotiation up to the borrower and lender or is it all set within the platform? Nope, nope. 100% up to the borrowers. So the borrower, lender, I post, you reach back out to me, you say, Hey, I see you're wanting 12% money. How about X? You negotiate what you want. And I say, okay, why don't instead of X, I go with Y plus Z, which is totally different, right? Maybe it's deferred interest and whatever. That is totally up to us. We negotiate the deal and we move forward.

Well, second ago, I just watched you do exactly what happens on PMC every day. You know, you guys were talking and you're like, well, my minimum for the deal is a hundred. And he says, well, I don't know if I could do a hundred. You said, well, I could probably do 50, but you know, here's how we would do it. And you were negotiating, right? That's how it happens on PMS. There's no set parameters except for the borrower. When they post their deal, they'll put down the rate that they're hoping to pay, the term they're looking to do and the position. The lender in their profile will say, hey, I have X amount to lend between this interest because it's a range for the lender. Here's the range of interest that I'm doing and I'm willing to lend money for X amount of time. Another interesting thing,

not to sidetrack, but is the terms, the duration lenders are willing to lend on. I've seen that going longer. We have a lot of lenders on there lending five, seven, 10 years now. It was before it was like 12 months. So it's evolving. But that's because a lot of money is coming out of Wall Street and it's getting to Main Street. Because Main Street is safer than Wall Street right now. That's right. So I think that's what you're saying. It's such a cool journey that I've been on with this. And to watch what's happened, I never thought this fast we would have scaled and touched this many people's lives.

I have one developer who, I don't know if he's a total member, but when he told me it was over 70 million dollars he's raised on private money club seven one development million dollars yep wow 70 million and that's old numbers it's probably more than that now but it was 70 million when i last asked him which and he like anyone else put an opportunity up there said here's some lenders that would you be interested someone said yes from there it just went like wildfire obviously one just went like wildfire there was this developer who was doing ground up a lot of experience he's doing this new build like this real fast build already owned the land which is one thing that was good offered 15 interest it was a 12 month deal all the all the houses were pre-sold to a company that's going to buy them all in one chunk and then

rent them out so like one of the not a hedge fund but like a hedge fund yeah and they're all pre-sold he put that deal on pmc and i think in two weeks he raised almost two million dollars no kidding fully funded his deal that is phenomenal i mean this is a no-brainer for anyone watching this you need to go to private money club yeah there's i don't know why you wouldn't there's there's no barrier to entry and we got to be a human you got to be able to fog the mirror and it and i and if you're an institutional lender trying to or a broker you will be sniffed out very quickly the terms and conditions are strict if we find out you're you're trying to push business outside the site or to an institution, you'll be banned from the site, period. We don't allow banks and institutions. Now, let's talk about money. You know a lot about

money and raising money and being a lender and saving money and putting in, you know, I think there's a wealth of knowledge that you create even around what people should be doing with their money. Like how could someone potentially be a private lender on PMC? I think there's a lot of people who are immediately like, oh, this is where I'm going to find the lender. What about the people that want to be the lender? Well, I, you know, why there was so many lenders, you know, in the early days of PMC was because of what I do on the other side, the be your own bank stuff. So we do a thing called the infinite banking concept. We teach it. We have over 13,000 clients and, and it's an old strategy that we teach. But basically, I'll tell you how I lend. So when I save money, I don't save money the normal place

people would. I save, you know, they would save in a bank and then they'd lend from their bank. But you only make money once if you do that. Because once you take the money out of the bank and you lend it, you stopped earning money from the bank. And now you're just making money on the private lending deal that you did. So what I do is I changed where the money went. And I put it into a vehicle that everybody knows. It's a whole life insurance policy. But we design and engineer them so that they're super high cash value. So I put the money in there.

And sometimes I dump a big chunk in if I'm going to lend. And then what I do is I find a deal on PMC. And I take that money out of my policy as a loan. And I lend it on PMC. Let's just say it's a 12% deal that I'm lending on. If I had a hundred grand in my policy and I took a hundred grand out to lend it at 12, when I took the hundred grand out of the policy, my money, my hundred never left the policy. The insurance company lent me a hundred thousand from their general account and they

collateralized the loan with my hundred thousand in there. So I'm earning interest and dividends on all 100,000. And out of all the five companies we use, the lowest is 5.6, might be 5.65%. That's what my money's earning, compounding uninterrupted while I get to go make 12% on Private Money Club. And then the insurance company, what they do is they lend the money from their general account,

subtract it from my death benefit. So really the loan doesn't need to be paid back. So when this borrower pays me monthly, I don't take the interest I earn monthly and put it in a traditional bank. I take that money and I put it back into my policy, which is my bank. So now I get full control of that. Now I have more money to lend. And now I'm paying that loan down to the insurance company. So I'm actually making more money. Put it this way, when I lend, I make money twice on the same dollar when everybody else makes money once because of one thing, and that's where the money goes first. And that's to the point of why I asked that question is I think there's a lot of people out there that would love to be able to be a

lender. I think there's a lot of people that don't want the headaches of being in the real estate space. They don't want to be a landlord, tenants, toilets, the whole thing. They don't have time to do the flip, but they, they love real estate. They're interested in real estate. I would tell everyone you agree. The bank always wins. Always. It's always the powerhouse at the bank. So knowing more about this, I think is important. And I think it's the right audience for people to understand this model, right? In the whole life policy, which essentially allows you to be your own bank. That's how I lend.

But I also lend from my self-directed IRA. When I was in Wall Street as an advisor, I had a 401k there. I retired in 2018 when I sold my practice, but I moved my 401k into a self-directed IRA. And that allows me to lend money from my retirement account on Private Money Club. So I'm not just lending from just the policies. I'm also lending from my self-directed IRA.

Just another way to do it. If you've got an old 401k, an old IRA out there, get a hold of a self-directed IRA custodian. I use Horizon Trust. I've been accused of two. Love them guys. And I just lend from there. So it allows my retirement dollars along with my non-qualified, like just regular money to go to work for me.

I think I have the audience that I think people really need to consider this would be a little bit up there higher in age. I think, I think there's a lot of people who may watch this or listen to these podcasts that might be thinking, what is their next steps or next chapter? I think those are the type of people that really need to hit you up regarding a couple different things a understanding what PMC really is can you either be a lender potentially if you are going to get into real estate can you borrow money from there but also just the whole life policy and how to structure money in a way that whether it is a self-directed which isn't really your thing but you're very knowledgeable about it and or the whole life policy because you know the older I get my end goal probably ultimately beyond just having billions of dollars of real estate is to likely have some level of a

I don't want to say a bank I don't think I want that but like be a pretty large lender right because I just know I want my money to work when I'm not working the best way I know how to do that is to go lend it 100 right and I think most people need to hit you up for both of those factors so if you are listening you're maybe even thinking I don't know if real estate's my thing but I love this show Chris is a great wealth of information where can we should they just hit you up on social in that sense I mean just listen I'm on all social channels just go to the Chris N noggle and it's n-a-u-g-l-e i've got 1200 videos on youtube i i watch the comments on those every single day but hit me

up on instagram tiktok facebook youtube or just go to chrisnoggle.com and you can learn about how to be your own bank by watching a 90 minute video and i i always say that and people like i don't want to watch a 90 minute video what if i told you that when I first learned about this, the person I learned from said, watch this 90 minute video. And I pushed back and they said, just watch it. And then we'll talk. And I watched that video and single-handedly, I would say that's my success. That's why I'm successful today. It changed my financial life. I'm not even kidding you. So go to chrisdoggle.com, watch the 90 minute video. If you want to learn how to be the bank and then just go to private money club.com and create a profile and start playing around and start meeting people.

If you are going to be a lender on private money club, what, like, what are the minimums? If there are minimums, no minimums. I know of somebody that lent five grand recently, actually that they just had five grand and they're like, I don't think I can do much. What they did is they found another lender on there and they basically can't both came together and they put together a $50,000 lend. Wow. One did 45, the other did five. So if you're even contemplating being a lender

because you have a W-2 job or maybe your time or whatever the case is, go there. Is there a way for them to ask questions on PMC? Yeah, or just call 833-JOIN-PMC. You can ask all the questions you want or get in PMC. There's a forum or support at the, or I'm sorry, support at private money club.com. So there's lots of different ways, but it's easier just to get on a call 833-JOIN-PMC. Ask any questions you want. Get a demo. We do a demo too. What do you think is going to happen with the real estate market

here in the coming elections market? You think it's softening? Do you think it is going to happen with the real estate market here in the coming elections market? Do you think it's softening? Do you think it's going to drop a lot? Do you think it's just going to get a little bit more balanced? I mean, listen, you and I both know, and we've done this a long time, right? 2007 for me, and I think 2005 or 2006 for you. We've seen nothing but a decade of wind at our back, appreciation going wild. Anyone who is anyone has been making money in real estate over the last decade because of it right like if you like you said if you can fog a mirror and you're in real estate you're probably making a decent

income right because the appreciation fixes all mess ups right reality has set in the last 12 months how do you think it looks do you think there's a pretty big course correct? What are you thinking? So we're in Miami, a very highly appreciated market. You will have a fairly large correction there. Any highly appreciated area will have larger corrections than Midwest. But I don't want to scare anybody in saying that. It's just cyclical.

You're definitely going to see pricing soften. People are like, no, you're not. There's demand. It doesn't matter that there's demand. The demand cannot afford the supply. The supply is too high right now. So the supply needs to come down to meet demand. This is economics 101. So you will see softening. But here's, I'll make a bold prediction, but I won't be wrong. You will be in a pretty severe recession in 2025. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. When this election is done, it doesn't matter who gets in. Trump this election is done, it doesn't matter who gets in. Okay, Trump, Kennedy, Biden, doesn't matter who gets in. The market is going to go down. The

reason the Fed hasn't dropped rates yet is because they know this is going to come. They don't want to exhaust their bag of weapons before they actually have this recession. So they're pushing it. Like, listen, folks, like, I've been doing this 21 years. I can't call myself an economist, but that's all I study and all I read. Every single economist that's actually worth something will tell you the same story. We'll see a softened economy. You'll see real estate prices come down. You'll see the stock market get probably beat up really bad. I would say minimum drop in the stock market will be 30%, but I'm thinking even more.

So folks, listen, like this is the greatest time you will ever live through. This is the biggest opportunity most of the people watching this will ever see in their lifetime. Biggest opportunity. Should all people be in real estate in one form or another? I think so, absolutely. It's the greatest. More millionaires are created out of real estate than anything else. It's one of the greatest industries.

I would tell you right now, just based around my own business, I'm buying more real estate now, even though the interest rates aren't perfect and all this other stuff. And you're buying severely discounted. Yeah, of course. And so even if it's a deal that because of the economy and things change numbers or interest, like there's exits, right? I can keep it, I can flip it, whatever the case may be. But I think everyone needs to be within real estate because the thing that you and I both know is give or take every 10 years or so, real estate doubles in value regardless. 2005, 6, 7, going in 2008, that was the big crash, right? Everyone freaked out. They never thought prices would get back there. We've doubled since that. The highest peak we have in most markets doubled the price of

that highest peak. And again, that's about 14 years into the game, 15 years into the game, but real estate just doubles. And it will this time too. You just got to ride through the cycle and the person. So if I buy today and it drops by 30% tomorrow, I don't care. As long as you don't need liquidity. That's right. Yeah. So the people that are going to get hurt, and I hate to say this folks, are the people that got into these syndications that bought at way high valuations that were promised probably unsustainable prefs that probably, you know, that they thought they were going to get all their money back on a refi. That's, you're already seeing those

problems. So that's going to be hard. People that are getting into deals that want to sell next year, they're going to be probably in some trouble. So you got to get in and get out really quick. But if you're just looking at real estate as a long hold, like what you do, buying apartment buildings at a discount, renovating them, renting them, you will ride this whole thing out. Matter of fact, the best possible thing that will happen is when this does happen, real estate investors should want softening. They should want the economy to go down so they can buy at reasonable prices because then you just buy them and you hold them and you ride them back up. I'm welcoming it, to be frank. I don't want to say this because it just sounds bad but i've been waiting patiently for this right because i have been

buying we just bought a development deal down down by our place but we haven't really bought any real estate outside of like we bought a snowboard place up on the hill but i haven't bought anything and you know we used to buy hundreds of houses we just haven't been because i've been waiting you waiting for the markets to soften just because I'm a bottom feeder. That's just how I operate. I like to buy low and people like, well, you can buy any cycle. Right. But my appetite is waiting for this to come because I can just lend money. I can make plenty of money just lending. I want to buy real estate when I feel comfortable that the pricing is where it needs to be. Yeah. What are you doing it all

over again? Are you going to go back into the market more as a buy and hold? Absolutely. Buy and hold. Yeah. Yeah. Flipping. Are you crazy? I listen, like I made a lot of money flipping. We flipped 270 houses, but there wasn't one house that wasn't a pain in the ass. That's right. I mean, contracts alone still keep it a pain in the ass, right? It's, it's, I don't even want to call it a necessary evil because I don't even think it's necessary, but it's a function of the business I run that for, to some extent, I'll always be remodeling. And here's why is because I can also burr it. I'll just lend you the money and you do the work. That's right. I mean, that works like that's exactly how it works. Like, and that's what PMC is all about. There's always somebody that wants to do the work that understands doing the

work. And there's always somebody like me that has done it or, or just doesn't want to do it. That just is like, I don't want to get my hands dirty. I'll give you the money. You go do the work. And then I'll just take a first position and just pay me interest. I think, again, I think all of you out there listening or watching this, you need to go look into PMC, whether you're going to be a lender, whether you're going to be a borrower. By the way, if you're in real estate in any level, capacity, interest, go join PMC, private money club.com. Like be there, be a part of the community. Community is absolutely everything. Can't tell you how much money I've made just

between people communal. Um, just because we break bread and have fun. Next thing you know, there's a business deal a year down the road, get in the community today at the private money club. But also I would tell you getting to real estate, whether you are a lender, I just, but also I would tell you, get into real estate. Whether you are a lender, I just, you and I just spoke about how I have a lawyer who hit me up because he wants to get more into my world. He's talking about, hey, I could be a lender for you because he doesn't, he's a lawyer. He doesn't have time to do what my company does, right? Get into real estate. Everyone should be in real estate. Everybody should. Some one capacity or the other, whether it's I got no money and I can't get into real estate wholesale, or, you know, I, I got friends that

have money flipping. I mean, there's, there's an appetite for every, or there's a, there's a, well, I'm saying it wrong, but there's a solution to everybody's appetite in real estate. Just pick one that suits your needs that you know, like, and understand and go deep into that one. I think that's one problem real estate investors make is they try to do everything. Oh, I'm going to flip. Oh, I'm going to wholesale. I'm going to develop. Oh, I'm going to do apartments. Like you don't even know what you do. You become a generalist and then you don't do anything. Well, that's right. Get really good at one thing when you master that and you're not required there to do the day-to-day then move on to the next. I think that's a big mistake people make. Can I give one other piece

of advice? Of course. PrivateMoneyClub.com. Like, great. There's no cost to getting in it. You can create a profile. Please do yourself a favor and me a favor too. Put a photo up. You wouldn't believe how many people go on to PMC and they put a profile up and they have no photo.

You're going to, no one's going to look at your stuff. I will not even, i won't even communicate with a faceless name right put a photo up your facebook your instagram your tiktok you got tons of photos so put photos up so people know who they're talking to i can't believe it sorry just little side note just because it drives me nuts it drives me nuts even on social media when people have like not their face and have a picture of a car like well then who like great you like this car i don't even so i totally hear you on that guy that raised 70 million he's have a picture of a car like well then who like great you like this car i don't even so i totally hear you on that guy that raised 70 million he's got a photo of him and his family

yeah shocker shocker shocker i raised more money using a private money lender letter with me and a girlfriend at the time on the photo of the letter because it looked like more like family money like hey we need the money to buy the next people just like it yeah yeah dude thank you for coming on everyone make sure you look up chris noggle go to private money club.com join if you have any interest in real estate join as a borrrower, you always need money. And by the way, if you are, you know, you have some money in savings, I would encourage you to hit up Chris, learn more about the infinite banking model, how you can actually be a lender. You don't even need to do real estate full time. You can just lend. No matter how you cut it, you need to be reaching

out to my guy, Chris Noggle. Any last words? Yeah, I do. Will Rogers had this quote, and I think it's really relevant for this discussion. And he said, the biggest problem in America is not what people don't know. He said, the biggest problem in America is what people think that they know that just ain't so.

Those are my parting words. I love that. It's very good. Guys, he's a magic man. He knows so much. He's an incredible resource. So make sure you look him up. Thank you again for watching this.

If this has made any impact on you, there's a takeaway. Share this with two of your friends. I'd greatly appreciate it. See you guys on the next episode with another incredible guest. Peace.