The Science of Flipping - How Lamassu Leads Dominate the Art of Cold Calling | Scott Morse

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

In this episode, Scott Morris from Lamassu Leads unpacks the ins and outs of transforming the real estate industry through expert outbound cold calling. He shares how his team managed to make a staggering 59 million calls last year, thanks to their rigorous training programs and a well-oiled operational base in Colombia. Scott dives deep into the unique belief system at Lamassu Leads, emphasizing how they prioritize quality over quantity in lead generation. He also discusses the role of AI in refining training methods and how adapting swiftly to market conditions is key to staying ahead. Moreover, Scott highlights effective sales tactics and the critical role of diverse marketing strategies in maximizing lead conversion rates. This chat is all about the power of specialized knowledge, strategic partnerships, and innovative approaches in making cold calling a dynamic tool for real estate success. — Thank you to Lamassu Leads for sponsoring today’s episode. Go to www.lamassuleads.com — Connect with Scott! Instagram - @lamassuleads Website - https://bio.scottmorse.com/home — The #1 training and coaching system to launch, grow, and scale your investing business! 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧 𝐌𝐨𝐫𝐞: http://www.thescienceofflipping.com Turn cold real estate leads into engaged motivated sellers on auto-pilot using the power of A.I! 𝐋𝐞𝐚𝐫𝐧 𝐌𝐨𝐫𝐞: https://www.rocketly.ai/ Have a question? Ask me anything at https://www.askjustin.ai/ 𝐀𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐉𝐮𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧: After graduating from UCLA in 2003 with an English degree, Justin went directly into business for himself. He has never had a W-2 job. In 2005 he got into real estate by co-founding a brokerage in the Northern California area. Quickly he realized that being a realtor was not for him. In 2007 he got into real estate investing full time. 16 years later, Justin has flipped well over 2600 properties, accumulated millions in rental properties, and is an active investor to this day. His success in real estate led him to start The Science Of Flipping podcast and education company, where he has coached and mentored over one thousand aspiring and active investors.  He is a nationally recognized speaker and is on a mission to educate as many people as possible on becoming a successful dynamic real estate investor. 𝑾𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑷𝒓𝒐𝒔 𝑯𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝑻𝒐 𝑺𝒂𝒚 𝑨𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝑱𝒖𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒏:  “Justin is one of the best trainers in this space. He really gives everything to his tribe.” – Brent Daniels (TTP)  “Justin’s ability to connect with people and help them understand what he is teaching, is unparallelled” – Kent Clothier (REWW)  “We have been in the trenches flipping homes in Phoenix for over a decade, he is one of the best to do it.” – Sean Terry (Flip2Freedom) 

All right, Science Flipping podcast listeners, as always, this episode is brought to you by Rocketly.ai. If you're looking for a seller lead generating system that has automation in AI bot and has sellers coming to you, then Rocketly.ai is your choice. Make sure you head over to the website, fill out an application and schedule a demo now to see the power of rocketly.ai what is up sites of flipping family we are back with another incredible episode i'm fired up i got all the energy because my guest has all the energy the man scott morris

from lamassu leads is here and by the way if you don't know them they are the best outbound cold calling in the space of real estate over 59 million outbounds last year alone my brother what is up thank you brother for having me on here to be able to kind of talk some game check out your studio and just connect again yeah dude it's been a long time we've known each other now for the better part of six seven years um so about four and a half years actually but literally like my day one in the industry i met you. It was in Tennessee at a Clothier event.

But yeah, man, so I've known you pretty much since the beginning. So you have built something really, really special. I don't know where I rank in one of your first clients, but probably in the beginning side of it all. And you guys even then had something special to the industry that I fully bought into. And we fast forward four and a half years, whatever it may be. You are really changing the industry in the way of outbound call calling. Let's dive right into that. 59 million outbound calls last year.

What does that look like? Yeah. So 59 million outbound dial attempts. I mean, the infrastructure is tremendous. We have about 180 some agents, 12,000 square foot office. Like it's truly an enterprise operation. But I think the thing that supports it all is just a belief system that's different than any other outbound agency out there. And that's what you were attracted to way back then, even in the beginning.

Yeah. Well, I think what you pose and what your entire culture does, right? And I want to dive into sales culture, right? You've been in sales your whole life, so have I think what you pose and what your entire culture does, right? And I want to dive into sales culture, right? You've been in sales your whole life, so have I, but you've built something special. And I would say even your identifying that you got to find where the motivation is. And especially for those of you out there cold calling yourself, he can give you a lot of advice, even just like how to gravitate a lead that isn't warm and bring them up that escalation ladder. Let's talk about that and what your team, your crew does to take that seller conversation

and escalate it up the motivation ladder to hand it off to your clients. Yeah. So I think for a lot of people, they over complex the whole process. And then their belief system is that it almost should be an underqualified lead that it's almost like, um, like a churn type of business model. And so I didn't know any better when I came into your guys' vertical. I was naive to the REI space, but pretty accelerated in the marketing space. And I was just like, well, why can't my cold call leads be highly qualified and highly motivated? Why can't these leads be just as good as PPC or even better? Like if I control all the levers, if I'm the iOS system of my own marketing company, I'm alpha and omega. I control how I target the data. I control how I initiate that conversation. I control the entire conversation. Why can't I have the world's best

outbound leads if I control it all? And so I didn't know that the industry thought cold call was a bad thing and they were just doing it uh kind of a bad or a weak way yeah and that's the reality is I think there's plenty you know coaches mentors people will say like cold calling works I'm one of them yes right uh I think what people need to know and understand is it's not whether cold calling works it's really what you're saying on the phone to make that that prospect an actual lead yes right so how what is your team what does your team look like there in columbia your lamassu leads is in columbia yeah it is outsourced i think is incredible what does that escalation model look like internally for your company yeah so first off i

live there full-time like for the past four years I have planted a monster seed that's grown into a forest now there in Colombia, South America. And so I think that bringing some of that U.S. kind of management lead generation style down there has really helped grow up more than any other like VA type service. And so, you know, even when we first hire and we have two things that we care about when we first hire high English fluency, It's the number one priority coupled with just being a good person. Cause if you're a good human being and you can speak native or you've lived in the States, boom, I'll give you a crack at it. But these guys spend about two months in our Lamassu university, which is about four weeks, full classroom, two weeks shadow, and then two weeks like review. So I don't think anybody in the industry has ever invested a full 60 day sprint into an agent before they first pick up the phone. My guys know what a soffit is, an awning,

a faucet, a gutter, a shutter. They understand that the CEO of Zillow sold his house for a fraction of what his estimate was. They understand exactly what's happening in the market right now with interest rates. So I just say that like you can have an highly intelligent conversation if you're qualified and educated. And so that's what we do. We put them through a university and we make our qualifiers as good as about 70% of this industry's closers. And that's the front end of the market. I was just going to say that you put them through a full blown coaching on real estate. Exactly. Not even what questions to ask. Here's understanding what you, we are actually doing, which is the real estate space. Well, and not only do we have to do that, what you would do here in the States if you're coaching,

but I have to take kids who don't know what a yard sign is, doesn't understand how real estate commissions typically work. I'm starting with a true blank slate, which also too kind of gives me a statistical advantage because I'm not unlearning any bad knowledge. I'm literally just teaching them from the sun up exactly how I want them to understand the real estate industry and understand the impact that we get to make as investors or lead generators out there in the United States. And so these guys have clearly wrapped in their head that like, hey, when I stick on the phone with the seller past all of these objections and I deliver a well-executed rebuttal, I'm starting a butterfly effect that's going to have a tremendous impact on people and families all throughout the United States and even

obviously bringing revenue to Colombia. They understand there's going to be painters, there's going to be lawn care people, there's going to be roofers, there's going to be sheetrock families. Like all these people get to eat because they stuck on the phone on a cold call and kept somebody on the phone for 15 minutes delivering value. And so they take pride in being a cold call person. If you can take pride in being an outbound marketer and you feel it in your spirit, like you're just unstoppable. Your energy is contagious, bro. So let's just talk to the person who might be watching or listening to this. If they're cold calling themselves, what pieces of advice would you give to that

solopreneur calling themselves? What would you tell that person? Length on the phone, what type of questions, two-part clothes, like what overall coaching would you give the real estate investors breaking in by cold calling? Even if you're not breaking in by cold calling, you should break in by cold calling. That's right. Period. You got the capital for PPC. You got the capital for PPL. You got the capital for whatever other marketing channels. Do yourself a favor and put yourself through a little bit of a bootcamp. Understand it because I've met people who have done, let's say only PPC leads. And now all of a sudden that channel is either wonky or they now need to add another channel on.

They go to a cold call or a quote unquote lesser channel and they get destroyed. See, if you can do cold call, you can do any other marketing channel out there. And so starting there with that foundation and understanding how to really navigate a tougher conversation to be able to win somebody over. Because in sales, it works like this. It's sales resistance, sales acceptance. And so when you go into a cold call, there's inherently more resistance out there than any other outbound or any other channels. And so learning how to bring down that resistance and building rapport and then moving to acceptance. So no matter what, I really agree or believe that you should start in cold calling. And if you are going to start in cold calling, don't chicken out. Stick around for the success.

It's going to take you 30, 45, 60 days of beating on the phones, understanding your craft. Get a couple of deals doing the cold call method and then potentially think about outsourcing it. But I won't take somebody on typically if they've never at least picked up the phones themselves. So I want them to understand the value that we're truly bringing to the marketplace. Yeah, it's not easy. I mean, as someone I've door knocked in my life, I've cold called in my life, like that art is that skill set is very, very difficult. And so what I would tell anyone, if you do have a marketing budget, and you're out there watching this or listening to this, you got to reach out to Lamassu Leads, period, end of story. Because if you have a budget to put forth on PPL, PPC, you have to have different verticals. I will tell everyone that you have to have different marketing strategies, different

verticals. Lamassu Leads, what's the easiest way initially for people to get ahold of you? Just probably Instagram? Yeah. So I want people to follow us at Lamassu Leads, L-A-M-A-S-S-U Leads, because you get to see behind the scenes of our call center. And I think that authenticity is something that's lacking in the REI space. And I say this with respect to all the guys and gals out there that maybe have some type of agency. You get to see the behind the scenes. I share the highs and the lows. You get to see the guys in the arcade room, on the ping pong, to the foosball. You get to see them in the university. You get to see when things go sideways. But I want people to see what it takes to run almost 200 person call center and deliver 59 million outbound

dials just last year on behalf of some of the biggest rei players in this space because this is a real deal company we are delivering exceptional value through one of the hardest marketing channels that are out there and i look at myself as a strategic partner. I ain't nobody's client. I ain't nobody's call center, bitch. That's not it. But I'm somebody's strategic partner and I'm helping them stabilize first typically, and then grow this marketing channel that most times has never been successful for them. I mean, even, you know, even when you're starting, you made that a point. Like we would have weekly calls. Let me see the leads, how many of these have converted. Not with me and my team.

I'm saying you would have it with me and my team. Personally, now you are a lot smaller then than you are today. But you really are a partner in that sense. The entire point is you need to make sure we are successful as real estate investors because you have a client for life and it continues to spread the word, right? So there's a plaque and you'd love it. I'd love to have you at the office. I just got this plaque recently made. It's black with glass in Boston. It's a photo of Gary Keller from Keller Williams. And it's got a quote above it. It says, he who controls the leads controls

the industry. Facts. And to me, that's part of the mission here. And so when I dive into my affiliates accounts, it's because I want to have the mindset of the largest hedge fund out there. Like if I was a hedge fund out there, I wish that I would have the analytics that I have. So when I dig into your account, I want to know what's exactly working for you guys, what strategies are working, what zip codes are working. So that way I can take that success and continue to replicate it. And so by now, four years later, we've really gotten dialed into what levers to pull on this big Boeing 747 plane of cold calling to be able to get the smoothest acceleration off the runway for our clients. So do you guys run a setter closer model within your own Llamasoo leads

or is it all a set to the client? This is a really great question. So the thing that irritated me the most about this industry when I got into it is before I ever started my own cold call company, I outsourced cold calling. First, I tried the Philippines and it was just what everybody would expect it.

And then I tried Egypt and somehow that was worse. So then I was like, screw it. I'll just kind of start my own. I had some connections down in Columbia, good connections, but I had some connections down in Columbia. Yeah. We need to clarify that for sure for the audience. My, the mother of my two beautiful daughters is from Columbia. So that was the connection. But anyways, and so, but when I outsourced to these other companies, they were always like, Hey, we'll sell you a VA and it's going to be X amount of dollars. and you have four or five. And by the way, we'll also sell you a leads manager. And I'm like, wait a minute, why do I need a leads manager? Why can't I just hire a bunch of leads managers

instead of the original VA? Why do I need all these people to touch it? And so to follow up on your question, we do believe in the fronter-closer model, but we don't believe in the initial contact and then the leads manager. So our fronter, I promise you, is as good as 70% of this industry's closers. They are taking that entire conversation. Our average intake call is about 14 to 17 minutes long right now. So you're having that healthy of a conversation. And then just like in Boiler Room for you guys and gals who haven't seen the movie Boiler Room, go watch it. But just like in the movie Boiler Room where he raises and he says, Recco, we are live transferring these hyper-qualified leads directly to affiliates.

So we are the fronter. You are the closer. Boom, right over into your lap. That's incredible. So the reason why that's incredible is because you and I both know. You let that person off the phone. How many times more difficult is it to get it back on? I mean, it's 5X, 10X, 20X more difficult

to get that seller right back on the phone. Life happens, right? So that live transfer is really gonna be a game changer for a lot of them. Given that point, what do you think the secret sauce, why your clients do so well, beyond their own expertise, what do you say is the live transfer?

Do you think it's the line of questioning that delivers the quality? Is it all of it? Where's some of the secret sauce that you have? This episode is brought to you by my friends and today's sponsor, LamassuLeads.com, the real estate industry's only enterprise-level call center. If you're like me and you're tired of underqualified leads, junking up your CRM and wasting time and money, you need to do what I did.

And that's reach out to LamassuLeads.com. Highly qualified, highly motivated seller leads. It's that simple. They're an all-in-one service. You've never experienced anything like this before. They do all the heavy lifting for you while becoming a strategic partner in your real estate investing business. They have the most badass office in the industry you have ever seen, and I hope you see their operation. Visit their Instagram at Lamassu Le leads and give them a follow seriously if you need more motivated

seller leads if you're tired of babysitting cold callers on the other side of the world lamassu leads is your answer go to lamassu leads.com to learn more that's lamassu l-a-m-a-s-s-u leads.com you know it's No one's going to be able to replicate you, so you might as well give it to us. Yeah, I think it's so many small things that it's hard to say. I'll tell you that I have disqualifiers. Like if I have an affiliate who's like, hey, I don't accept live transfers,

then I can't work. You won't take them on? Yeah, just because I know that that diminishes their success by about 15-20%. Sure. Because if I have Gladys Smith on the phone and she wants to move closer to be with her grandkids because her husband just passed away and she needs to move now. The last thing I want to do is risk that you can't get him back on the phone. I need a live transfer Gladys right this second. And so being able to see those kind of small incremental things, I think today when we're recording this, you know, there's other

success variables out there is how many exit strategies do my affiliates have? That's another thing that I look at as a qualifier or disqualifier to see if they're accepted to use my services because I don't want to run in place. Like I want to work with the big dogs and I want to work with the guys and gals who have a big dog mentality who are trying to get there. So you don't have to be the biggest Jeff, but you got to have the right kind of tools in place. And so right now I see that people who are the most successful have multiple exit strategies. They have a well-oiled sales process out there. They have some CRM drip sequencing. There's a lot of different things that I see now as to what makes somebody take our leads and just close. Do you have any level of nurture within your organization? Meaning as a client,

can I say, Hey, this lead came across 45 days ago. They're kind of good. Like, do you guys do that or not? It's a really great question. So the short answer is no, because that's a separate service now. So we now have what are called super nurture agents. And I'm talking, these people are like closer level agents. And what they do is they can live inside of your CRM and breathe life to years worth of old data, whether it came from TV or radio or mail or an old cold call company that you just hate it. That person just sits inside of your Salesforce or your REI, simply whatever CRM you're using. And they're in there just literally calling the people up. Hey, Mrs. Jones, the CEO of my company is your file was on his desk. He wanted me to follow up.

Do you see how the process of selling your house is going? Yeah. And boom, we're not saying, hey, do you have the house? We just want to see how the process is going. So we're calibrating with them and then we're live transferring that back out. So that is a separate service that we offer on top of our traditional cold call service. You have an outbound service. We have an outbound cold call service and then we have a nurture service and we have a launch control managed service those are our three

things that we do and we do with success at a very high level how much different has your business changed since texting has taken so many beatings over the last six months meaning has it gotten good like you're like yeah because people realize i can still call i can still connect there's connectivity or has it not changed where's where's it taking your business it's a really unique perspective and i say this on camera knowing that this may be a bit of a self-defeating statement but when there's blood in the water like that with text so many people got out of this space that it became for the first time in years, a bit of a blue ocean again. And so while there was a timeframe where the, the, the connectivity

with the platform that we used really had to send in like wonky messages. I bailed on it. They're now back to being able to send like really healthy type messages, the same ones that we would send a year ago. And what happened is, is now we're back in the space with so many other people are gone. So our texting is performing wildly good and i think the other advantages i have is again we're doing things at scale so while an average wholesaler out there may only be able to send a text and test a response and test a response we're doing it at such a macro level i know which templates will get the absolute best results right now in pretty much every single market out there so we've seen a success because so many other people have left. I think one people need to understand, right? Like,

first of all, depending upon where you're at, while you're watching this or listening to this, you may need to be doing this yourself to your point, right? Get on the phone and make the calls. But the other part is you would be the equivalent, Lama Suleys would be the equivalent of any of the greats, meaning how many chip shots has Tiger woods taken how many three-pointers has steph curry taken how many right like you have so many damn reps in the gym that you've been able to perfect where a lot of us like even me i am a hell of a salesperson and a hell of a closer agree but i don't have nearly 59 million dials in a single year right you just can't equate the two so the first part without you selling you i'll sell you is if you are in a place of a

marketing budget the first thing you should do is at least reach out yep and see if it's a qualified fit right because some people won't be a fit for you and then vice versa you may not be a fit for others but i would tell you if you listen to anything I've ever said, it's exactly what you're saying. You need to diversify how you exit, but bring in more leads, meaning should he be working with agents? Yes. Should he be cold calling? Yes. Should he be doing PPL? Yes. Should he be texting? Yes. You should be doing all of it. It's not an or, it's an and every time. Yeah. I couldn't agree and couldn't agree more. Excuse me. And even a guy like myself. So I have my own wholesaling office in Central Florida.

So that market's sold out, guys. I can help you with data. I can help you with some of these other things. But even us, we do TV, we do mail, we do PPC, and we do cold call, obviously. So even with us having this big monster operation where I could say just 100% cold call, all cold call, we do. We hit the gas pedal here. We hit the gas pedal here. We get all these different places because I want to diversify my own marketing channels. There's just going to be people you can get on the phone in this channel who don't respond to this channel.

And then sometimes you can get a really good synergy between the two. So we'll take our list of people who don't respond on cold call. We'll extract that list and then we'll send it to mail. So there's all these kind of synergistic effects that you can do, or you can cold call right after your mail and just check to see if they received the piece of mail that you had sent them. So there's a lot of synergies between the channels. I think that one thing that you said though, about us perfecting it, we still have so much more room for growth and sales for me, it's a never ending journey. It's that relentless pursuit of the idea of perfection, but it's always going to be a growth because the market's changing. Our pitch has to adjust a little bit out there.

You know, two years ago, people would say, well, where am I going to move? Now they really mean it because the interest rates are so high. These people are almost captive to their own houses right now. And so now we're having a little bit more of an education pitch with them about their best options to maximize the equity that's in their house today to be able to be able to make that move. And so we want to educate our sellers. And I think we're probably the only cold call company out there that has, you know, 100 and some agents that are savvy enough on the phones to educate a seller before they even get to talk to the closer. Yeah. How does, how does the real estate market dictate what you guys do on the outbalance script? And does that have to change and be fluid? The problem is, is we're always doing this delicate balance balance between what the

investors know and what the consumer knows. Yeah. And so the investors are going to have different criteria than the, so there there's like a six month lag between what the investors are asking for us to do on the phones and what the sellers still think their house is worth and the command. And so that lag, I think, has never gotten a bigger gap than it has here recently because it's just moving so much faster, the investor knowledge. And so one of the things we do on the phones is we position ourselves with third party stories to

help the person kind of make the right decision. And we let them know, say, hey, listen, it's never been busier than it is right now, Mr. Seller. We're constantly getting calls with people who have large portfolios or trying to divest their properties just like you. And what we're doing effectively as we go into those third-party stories is we're just planting the seeds

that the smart money is getting rid of their houses now. That, hey, we're seeing trend lines out there with people with portfolios. So you don't want to be that last guy when the music stops, Mr. Seller, looking for a seat. And then all of a sudden you're stuck and you weren't able to take out the equity in your property. And so for us, it's educating the consumer and having a belief in our product, right? Belief that we're helping these people.

We don't call happy homes. We call ugly homes and ugly properties. So we know we have to fight for them. So a client needs to give you a list. Do you pull a list? Do you say, listen, we know exactly where to go, what to target, leave it to us. Is it a combination of both? It's a really great question. So I own synergydata.io. To me, I think it's the world's best data company, but I really only service it to my current clients. It's a publicly available website, but my Llamasue clients,

like we curate this experience. And so for the most part, most clients come to me and they're like, Scott, I like you, but I also going to put a little bit of pressure on you. If I buy the data to you, skip the data to you, call the data to you. If this isn't a raging success, there's only one person to blame. And I want that smoke. I want all that pressure. I want everything because again, I can control the experience. I can do the data targeting. And the worst part about the cold call industry is everybody's excuse. There's never been a guy out there who hired a cold caller with a cold caller when the numbers were down, didn't blame the data. Of course. It's never they had a bad day. It's never their internet was bad. You hire these guys in the Philippines, there's a chicken in the background. They're never going to blame the chicken in the background.

They're like, oh, the data was bad today. We need more records. Get out of here. And so I wanted to be able to take that excuse away from us and also from the customer ever having to hear that and say, hey, listen, we'll curate it all. I will also call people's data if they're already locked in the contract, somebody else's data. I respect that there are some other good data providers out there, but my ideal situation is just come to me, let's get everything registered, let's do our diligence. And then when we start, accept leads and don't do anything else other than close. I don't want you managing playlists. I don't want you managing data. I don't want you to have to use your brain. All I want you to do

is just close. There's a lot of people out there that would love to hear that again. And so hopefully this gets in those hands because someone like me or my organization, I don't want to go cultivate more leads, more leads to the point where someone like me, I'm actually doing more JV partnership type structures. So I can limit the headache of hiring people, training people. You know this because this was before bringing Lama Su on. I built my own internal sales team in Phoenix with 20 cold callers. It's a nightmare, by the way. So good for you to have 200 of these individuals.

But I would also say, if you're like me listening and watching, like this is something that you have to think about is it worth building out the organization or just getting on the phone and closing? Because I'm in a position in life where I just or just getting on the phone and closing because i i'm in a position in life where i just want to get on the phone and close and for me i mean my team that is a massive value that you know i want to talk about because you've cultivated and built an organization that can allow individuals who work part-time who don't have a lot of time

who maybe don't have the ability to hire, train and retain good quality people, you're basically saying, I got you. Let me just deliver the lead. And all you have to do is get on the phone and close it. And it's so funny because there's in this industry has been a lot of changes in marketing channels. And so what I'll do is I'll find people who like they had hired somebody in the Phillip or Egypt, maybe Philippines or Egypt, or maybe Pakistan, they had the cold calling and it just never like took off right they threw money after money after money then they moved to ppl and maybe they had some success but then they were spending all their time disputing leads and so it's like you can have some of these channels where you're spending so much time doing everything but calling

and closing and so for us it's like how can i curate? I am full transparency, less leads, longer conversations, less leads, longer conversations. I'm not a vanity play. I'm not trying to blow you. Oh, I got 14 leads today. Not buddy. You got 14 data records. You didn't get 14 leads, right? Let me send over a couple of hyper qualified, highly motivated leads that day.

So that way you can have a conversation. There's no point in your CRM saying something where nobody picks up the phone. Yeah. So let's talk about the lead. So you and I both know this. I've always said cold calling in a general sense, and you might argue this point. The lead has a longer tail, typically. Would you still agree or disagree? 100%. Even through your longer tail? Yep. So what I mean by that, for those that may not understand what we're saying in the sales world, it will take you longer to nurture and close that deal versus let's say a PPC or PPL. Correct. Now to support you again, not to take away and say, PPC, it is both conversation you should be doing. And, but also PPC to your point,

listed properties, sellers want to sell, but they're ready to list their property. Like there's no qualifying. You're paying from Google. You're paying from the PPL company. There's zero qualifications on whether this is going to be a good fit or not. You just get the $250 to $500 lead that you just spent and that's it. Yep. But I would tell most people if you have a volume of leads, even through nurture, and this is why AI has changed the game, right? You and I are talking about what we can do together through

AI and lead nurture. Talk about that, what people's expectation, because I think cold calling companies, cold callers, cold calling gets a bad reputation because improper expectation on what to do. It also gets a bad reputation because of heartbeat in a home leads. The scourge of this industry is heartbeat in a home leads. You hire these VAs in the Philippines or Egypt, wherever they are, and they get a customer on the phone. They're like, they have a heartbeat. They have a home. Send it over. That's not a lead, man. That's not a lead. So once you can get past that, the advantage of cold calling for a guy like me is I get to curate my buyer's list. If I know my buyers only like two bedrooms and three bedrooms built before 2000, I can put that into the data set. If I know they like particular zip codes or particular counties, I can put that

into the data set. You can't go into Google and say, hey, Google, I'd like you to only show my ads to homes where the house is more than 1200 square feet. Never. You can't go to the PPL. You can't do those types of things. So to be in the command center of your outbound channel, and again, you should have these multiple channels, but to be in that command center allows you to make a little bit more strategic choices coupled with what you're talking about, the conversion cycle. You're right. The tail is longer, but the long tail performs like dividends almost later because most PPC leads, if they're going to go in, they're going to fill out the form on multiple websites. If you get that deal, rockstar deal, but that person's very likely selling within that short timeframe. So if you missed that deal,

that deal is gone. And they filled out five other forms with five other investors. So where's your speed to lead? Where's all that stuff? Are you on the phone immediately? Which goes back to your, you know, transferring live. Yeah. And so for me, it it's just like i look in my crm and we'll have deals that are three years old two years old and we can talk about nurturing cadences because i love nurturing leads um but i see the cold call not only does it have a longer tail in the conversion window maybe 60 to 70 days on typical but but the very, very long tail pays dividends. I always had deals from three or four years ago that came from cold call every month come good. So let's talk about nurturing because this is another shortfall as someone who educates

thousands of investors, the effort that people are willing to put in and nurture the lead that they've been given or paid for is slim to none. I got a whole rant and I'll make it concise. You just get your, you get on that box. So I, when I came into this industry, cause I was an outsider, made all my money selling leads to attorneys. Okay. I didn't understand how the team, how it was being taught nurturing leads. So to me, I think what this industry is really good at, Justin, is the no contact nurturing. Okay. They said in your CRM two days, Hey, I'm trying to

reach you. Hey, just following up. I'd like to be able to speak with you. We're interested in making an offer. What this industry sucks at is the nurturing of the terminated leads. The people who said, go fuck yourself. I would never sell my house for that long. I'm not interested. I'm going to list it with a realtor. I'm working with another wholesaler. Never call me again. Those terminated lead nurture dispositions are where the gold is at, man. Calling those people who said, never in a million years would I sell to you guys.

You guys are scam artists. You're trying to take my house for pennies. That's where the money's at. Calling those, texting those. we have a lot of drip sequencing in our crm but texting them in 45 days hey i was just thinking about you in 60 days hey this and having these nurture sequences all dispositions based off of not interested once retail listed with a realtor working with a wholesaler um any of those terminated reasons that's where the money's at yeah a hundred percent so percent. So I say that a lot.

A hundred percent or absolutely. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. But because of that, it's very discouraging to see someone go to you as a client and I'm coaching them and they're like, man, I'm just not getting leads. And I'm not even saying this to anybody. Yeah, sure. And I'll say, okay, great.

How many leads have you gotten this month? I've gotten 50. How many offers have you made? Zero. Zero offers. It's impossible. Right. That's the point is the nurture sequence,

regardless of the vertical where the lead came in, has to be improved. What would be like two or three points that you would tell someone? Here's whether it's length of how to nurture, what you would say, what would be like a starting point? Someone says, Scott F off. That number doesn't even come close. What would be a starting every

week? You start to follow up with them a month. What would be the cadence at least that people can start to follow? I think first thing is just to understand sales psychology. Sure. A lot of people really get confused. I use this analogy in my office. I have, you were a kid, we were both kind of in the same age group but a doctor used to hit your knee with this little thing and they would like check your reflexes maybe they do i don't know i have a kid i should have made more attention has one that goes hey dad yeah yeah so i have one on my desk okay and i trained that that's a reactionary that that when a customer gives you their price or their response to your price it's a reactionary

defense okay it literally means nothing. It's just part of the process. And so the unfortunate part is people get a negative response from a customer and they believe it. They don't understand it's just a negative response. And then they put these really bad notes in the CRM. Customer cussed at me and said, I would never accept this amount and I would never do this. And then they go back and read their own notes 30 days later and they're like, oh Oh yeah, I remember this person. She was a B I'll never call her again. And then they see it again. I'll never call it again. And they literally buy their own BS.

And so what I would tell you first is F your notes, F your notes, set it up. So it forces you to automatically do the following. No matter what that text goes out without having to read the notes. We talked about AI multiple times. Being able to have a system that does the thinking for you. I don't want to prejudge my lead. I don't care about the old notes. I want to send them a message from the customer's perspective that we're building a relationship. Just following up with you.

Hey, how's it going with the open-ended question? How's it going with the process of selling the house? How is thinking about you? Whatever it is that you can set up on some type of automation, but the core tenant here is time and circumstance. These two things change. That's all you need to do is just wait it out to time or circumstance, and you got yourself a deal.

So I call it an event-based business. Great. We are waiting for the event to happen, time and circumstance, to the seller. So if you do this this this is why i fully have bought into ai not to take away from cold callers but the nurturing yes i just say to most people you're too emotionally invested you're reading the notes where the person said fuck off you say oh i would never call that person again because you're emotionally attached to that like you got rejected there's a scar from childhood about you getting rejected, right? So then you don't.

You're scared to. AI removes that entire data set. There's no emotion. The bot will literally say the same thing 7,000 times with no emotional attachment. And I believe, and tell me how this is going to affect your business. And again, we're in talks about how it could. But can this be a pivotal thing for your industry to say, hey, bring everyone into a nurture sequence where there is no emotion. You don't have to think what to say.

The bot is built to just do it. Yeah. So for me, I'm excited about all the changes and opportunities. How we're using AI in our business right now is for an AI seller. So we actually created an AI seller where my guys get to go through training. Instead of having to do dummy firing on my data, they get to have conversations with an AI seller. That you guys can build. Well, we built them.

And we can set them as like passive, neutral, aggressive. And they get hung up on by the AI seller. So what we're doing is we're leveraging that to be able to have our guys sharper on the phone. I think ultimately AI becomes a massive tool for guys and gals that are out there. And in my perspective is this is like, this may sound rough, candidly, but there's part of our industry that the mindset is let's build value, let's build portfolios, but we never know what's around the corner. So if we're a pirate, we got to get as much booty as we can right now. Sure.

And so like AI may just- He means gold, by the way. He means gold, jewels, boot, anyway. Gold. For those kids, they don't get it. But, and so who knows how AI is going to really shape the whole industry 15 years from now, the REI space. But I can tell you right now, being able to leverage it to nurture the leads, super savvy play, being able to leverage it as a training tool for us, super savvy play.

And we're just going to get as much impact as we can into this industry and out of this industry. The thing that I will always say, and I know you're going to agree, but there's always, always going to be a human component to real estate. Always. Because the person selling their home, it's their home yeah so there's there's little to no chance of some bot being able to convert in a manner that is anywhere relevant to what your team does or a closer can do right and people are always about like i'm all about ai i'm bought all the way in i'm just saying there's going to be a connectivity that there has to be human engagement there because the emotion that plays yeah for sure i i agree but let's leverage the tools that we have and i think for you guys

and gals out there our big takeaway from this is the reason why a is so powerful because it has no emotions attached to the lead so until you have those types of tools just be emotionless with the lead to pick up the phone once you're on the phone then let's start it's all hollywood baby let's go but stop reading the notes of your leads before you pick up the phone. Once you're on the phone, then let's start. It's all Hollywood, baby. Let's go. But stop reading the notes of your leads before you pick up the phone. Like I'll have customers, I'll have customers like, can we get a copy of the recording of every lead? And I'm like, well, I can, but let me tell you why you're asking that. You're asking that because you want to prejudge everything that you've gotten in such a mentality of you're like, okay, I want to listen to the call. So let's put this to the side.

How about they stayed on the phone 14 to 17 minutes. They're ready to roll, pick up the phone and do your job. Let's just focus on your closing transaction. Let's not worry about the things that happened two months ago. Right. So let's talk about for the person that might be like, okay, I need to start cold calling. What's a good list, right?

The generic answer, I think, absentee homeowners everyone's heard it there tends to be some truism to that but what would you tell someone the guy's like dude i'm ready to rock and roll that i'll get a deal and then i'll go pay llamas who leads yeah where should he be calling or she should be calling who should they be calling where i wish i could make it simpler than this but there's some other factors that go into it okay um you said starting out so i'm assuming this person probably doesn't understand novations doesn't understand creative let's remove all that because those will affect the types of lists and if you're curious hit me up on ig and i'll kind of share some insights there hit him up on ig no matter what because

the wealth of knowledge is a real estate investor llama Lama Su leads on IG. Make sure you go there because he's just, he's an amazing human, but he just knows what he's talking about. Thank you. And so for the newbie starting out, some of this also, again, I'm just going to say the typical market.

The more rural the market, I do like more owner occupied leveraged. And so I typically like to stay around the 50%. Right now with what I'm seeing in the industry, I like to stay around the 50% right now with what I'm seeing in the industry. I like to see about a 50% blend right now of niche and absentee to incorporate 50 to 60% of the total data set. And then about 40 to 50%, just depending on what's available over here, be an owner occupied, bought maybe pre 2008 and a hundred percent equity. Sure. And so I like to see that blend, no matter matter what list you'll never fail

with a niche list and niche just for everybody out there like that pre-foreclosure that pre-probate that divorce that water shut off if you can get those in your areas absentee out of state and then absentee end state like that's how i kind of stack that list down and then again i like some owner occupied distressed building quality um you know 100 equity those are the types of stack that list down. And then again, I like some owner occupied, distressed building quality, you know, 100% equity. Those are the types of lists that I like to target. And I kind of throw them in there as a hodgepodge. The one key takeaway is never remove the column that tells you what type of list that came from. So if you do a hodgepodge, you need to pre-foreclosure, pre-this and this and this, make sure that's there because you're going to put in 10,000 records right you're going to find out what's

producing the most amount of leads now you know what you're buying your next 10,000 of right but i see so many people they strip away that they go to prop stream or whatever like okay i'll buy a little bit of this buy a little bit of this and then they skip it and they get rid of all their identifiers you're a marketing and sales company no matter what and so you need to be able to track even if you're just a guy of one you need to be able to track, even if you're just a guy of one, you need to be able to track those things to know what to buy more of. And every quarter, you should be better at your data targeting

and better exactly what list you want to buy. I think, truer words than ever said in terms of marketing, you need to have the data to be able to understand how to move your lever, right? Yes. The last point I'll get to, just because it's so important to me,

what do you think is junior versus senior? Is marketing senior to sales or a sales senior to marketing? Sales is everything. Okay. You can buy a, in this space, you can buy leads from guys like me. You can buy PPL, you can buy PPC. I encourage you to do a lot of this on your own. So you understand, you know, you're kind of in the gutter, but you can give a Glenn Gary, you can give somebody a Wolf of Wall Street fire lead and they can fumble the bag. That's it. So I'd rather see somebody with higher sales skills than marketing skills, because if you have the sales skills, you can buy your way into the marketing and the REI space. We're not door knocking. This is a little bit different. Right. But I think that if you can, if you have intelligent sales skills, you've mastered

or mastered or working towards mastering the art of communication, the power of persuasion, that will pay off dividends better than you know how to run a PPC ad. Because when you still get that person who converted, who's highly qualified, who's highly motivated, who has a big urgency, if you don't communicate as a professional who can solve their problem, all they're going to do is say, thank you so much for the information. I'll speak with my spouse and we'll get back to you. And then they're getting back to your competitor. Right. So in that vein, what's frustrating for me is when people say they want to go hire salespeople and it's because they just don't want to do the work anymore, which I know. And you know that they just want to go hire salespeople and it's because they just don't want to do the work anymore which i know and you know that they just want to be lazy and i don't feel like doing this anymore

so i want to hire but that is like the death sentence is it not like if if sales is senior to marketing then you should be as a business owner until the very last second running sales yeah i couldn't agree more and uh you know some, some people are like, I'm burnt out. Well, your company is going to be toast. So that's an appropriate way of putting it. You have to be able to close. If you're going to be in this space and you're starting out, and it's not even difficult. Let's just be candid. It's just that people want to go into it without a strategy.

They don't hire a mentor. They don't understand the basic fundamentals of the sales process. Thankfully, this is not a tough sale. Like, we're not selling people sale. Like we're not selling people death benefits. We're not selling people caskets, you know, stuff that's like it's completely off the wall and a little bit difficult. No, we're talking about people who have a problem filled out a form or finished a 15 minute qualifying call. But if you don't understand it's a sales process, you don't kind of track yourself. And if you're not willing to consider yourself to be a professional athlete and what does an athlete do? They review the tape and you're not listening to your own calls and you're not yourself. And if you're not willing to consider yourself to be a professional athlete, and what does an athlete do?

They review the tape and you're not listening to your own calls and you're not giving critical feedback and you're not practicing daily. You're just going to fail at it, but you have to master the basic sales tenets. And if you'll do that and you'll hire the right mentors

and you'll follow the processes and then you can institute really good leads. It's really not that hard to be successful in this space. Yeah, and lastly, just do the thing. Make the fucking offer. Whether it's right or wrong, you can learn from it. Be the master, right? Go back and say, why didn't it work?

I offered too high. Why did I offer too high? I didn't underwrite the rehab buy enough. And then lastly, talk to some people just a little bit about how you can get even better if you sharpen your knife. What I mean by that is novation, creative financing. You go and get more leads, you will have more deals because you know how to exit those deals.

Yeah. For me, I see people getting monster bags right now, anchoring on wholesaling. If that's the right solution, go right in with wholesaling and then pivoting to novation if that isn't the right one. And so maybe two years ago, that person didn't have that as an exit strategy. And if they didn't work on wholesale for whatever reason,

they didn't have this alternative strategy. And also the market's kind of dictating to no novations right now. And I think that those guys and gals out there, what you have is no matter what funnel, like we'll talk about PPC, I'll kind of beat them all them for a second. You can't control if that's a listing lead or if that's a true wholesale lead. And so you have this whole upper part of your funnel that's typically

been unmonetizable unless you waited long enough for that time and circumstance of it. And so now you have this Novation extra strategy really helps to go out. For me, what I love is I love guys being able to look at my leads and say, hey, listen, my spread would be X with this marketing strategy. My spread will be Y with this marketing strategy. It seems like both of them benefit the customer. Let me choose which one will be a little bit more profitable. And so having these additional strategies and have somebody walk you through these strategies is the difference from probably closing a one out of 10, one out of 12 with a marketing channel being one out of 30. So if you can bring your closing ratio down by obviously having more exit strategies, you're just going to take a lead like Lama Sue leads and just going to have higher ROI.

So let's finish on this one last one. I keep saying that, but I got so much, we could do this forever. I agree. So, uh, conversion. Yeah. What would be a newer entry level, just getting started conversion rate with Lama Su lead, I'll say versus Justin Colby, right? Like where, where should I be? And then where should the newer investor be? And then maybe even a middle ground just for proper expectations. Right.

Cause I think another reason cold calling gets beaten up is because the conversion late is a longer tail, but then they don't even know like if i have a hundred leads i should have gotten two deals i got to work on the current leads in my database rather than calling scott and saying i need more leads yeah so let's address the tail real quick i think the average cold call tail for somebody who's like a rock star to somebody who's an og it's gonna be 45 to 90 days okay and that's a good swing. To contract it? To contract.

From lead to contract on blend, which means you're going to get some one-call closes, and you're going to get some that are 180 days out. Like that's how you get a 90-day timeframe. It's just how it's going to be. Right. I love live transfers because of the one-call close potential, especially for my virtual guys.

But you have that timeframe, so you have that. And then on the other side, the conversion is leads to contracts so the average i was going to say the word duck and i don't mean duck but i mean like the average guy out there he could stumble into a deal with my leads on one out of 20 one out of 20 so i'm saying like you should be one out of 20 with my llama sue leads i got guys that are one out of 10 one out of 20 with my Lama Su leads. I got guys that are one out of 10, one out of 12 with our leads. I'm running neck and neck with PPC. I really shouldn't beat PPC, and I typically don't over a long enough time frame, but I should be just like a PPC quality lead.

So guys like you will be like, hey, we're one out of 10, one out of 14 all day long. The average guy out there should be like one out of 20, and if they're brand new newbie, one out of 14 all day long. The average guy out there should be like one out of 20. And if they're brand new newbie, one out of 25. But let me help somebody else understand why you stick with the process and why you build a pipeline. Because if I send somebody 50 leads and they're supposed to get two deals, let's just say minimum two deals, right? And you get two deals, boom. But it's a 60 day timeframe. That means you might actually talk to a hundred leads before you get that first deal, but then they start going pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And so you have to stick with the process. You

have to pick up the phone. You have to grind out. It's going to be that way with any lead source. But when you can call somebody and they pick up the phone and they want to talk to you, and they've been through a 14 to 17 minute qualifying call, and they've gotten the Lama Su experience, that is what I consider to be a viable lead. Brother, I appreciate you coming on, dropping some sales knowledge, cold calling knowledge, real estate investing knowledge. It's been a pleasure, bro. So Lamassu Leads, IG is where we want to push everybody. Yeah, LamassuLeads.com is how you can get to the website, but I really would like you to see the authenticity of our shop. I want you to see behind

the scenes of this 12,000 square foot state-of-the-art call center that we built out exclusively for the REI space. I want you to feel the energy through the IG. So, at Lamassu Leads,

L-A-M-A-S-S-U at Lamassu Leads on IG. Appreciate it. Cool, bro. That's all we got today. See you guys on the next podcast. Let's roll.