The Science of Flipping - How This Investor Flips Houses in Just 24 Hours | Jon Steingraber

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

In this episode, I chat with Jon Steingraber, TV star of 24 Hour Flip, to discuss how flipping properties in as little as two 12-hour days is achievable through strategic planning, efficient logistics, and smart renovations. We emphasize the importance of reducing profit-destroyers like holding costs and over-renovating while focusing on quick, impactful upgrades that meet market demands. Jon shares practical tips, including creating a detailed scope of work during the contingency period, pre-ordering materials to eliminate delays, and coordinating trades to work simultaneously. With insights on hiring project managers, leveraging private capital, and tailoring renovations to local trends, this episode offers actionable strategies to increase profitability and reduce stress in property flipping. -- Connect with Jon! Instagram: - @jon_steingraber Watch Now: 24 Hour Flip on A&E, Hulu, and YouTube Learn to Flip Faster: Check it out Here -- About Justin: After investing in real estate for over 17 years and almost 3000 deals done, Justin has created a business that generates 7 figures in active income through wholesaling and fix and flipping as well as accumulating millions of dollars of rental properties including 5 apartment buildings, 50+ single family homes, and 1 storage facility Justins longevity in real estate is due to his ability to look around the corners, adapt to changing markets, perfecting Raising private capital, and focusing on lead generation which allows him to not just wholesale and fix & flip, but also accumulate wealth through long term holds. His success in real estate led him to start The Entrepreneur DNA podcast and The Science Of Flipping podcast and education company, where he has coached and mentored thousands of aspiring and active investors over the last decade. He is a nationally recognized speaker and is on a mission to educate as many people as possible on becoming a successful dynamic real estate investor.  

You know the idea is not necessarily to do a flip in 24 hours. It's to inspire people to do a three month renovation in seven days. That's right. Right just you know reduce your holding time, reduce the amount of stress, and not for nothing but when you have the plumber, the electrician, the framer and everybody on site on your property, what happens if you have an issue? You're like hey you call him he's in the other room you're just like hey come over here. Yeah.

You're not scheduling him. Yeah. Getting them here the next day before that guy can move on to his piece of the work, right? You get things done What is up the science flipping family? I am back with an impressive guest I've actually known this gentleman for well over a decade He and I kind of grew in the trenches together he on the East Coast me on the West Coast but this man is a TV star. He is the star of 24-hour flip and is an impressive realtor, owns a brokerage and

flips properties in 24 hours. John Steingreber is here. What is up, dude? What's up, man? Thanks. You're more famous than I am even though I have a TV show. I don't know about all that, dude. You Netflix and Hulu I mean you're all A&E you're all over the place right? So glad to be on. Man I'm excited because I have flipped a lot of properties in my career. I have no idea how the hell you were able to do it in 24 hours. Well now let me just ask a quick thing like are we talking about you buy it you paint it you list it? Nope I mean it's all documented It's on A&E Hulu YouTube you guys can check out the episodes

We do full kitchens. We do bathrooms. We do flooring We paint the exterior we do roofs. We do windows. We're talking about 24 hours in 24 hours. Yeah, and well, you know, we'll get into why we we kind of came up with this idea and this business model and how other people can do it. That's why I'm here. I just want to share, you know, kind of reprogram, reset people because we've been kind of taught that it takes three months, four months, six months, and that's not reality.

So why isn't that reality? As someone that basically I adjust for somewhere between four to six months Yeah For my underwriting hard money, so I want to make sure my economics are all right. Why? That's the reality right? It's not obviously is what you're telling me. But yeah, I mean profit destroyers You have to look at your profit destroyers, right? One of them is holding costs. Another one is, you know over renovating, right? so those are two out of the five that I kind of focus on. And I lost money on two big flips

where we were doing these huge additions that were taking forever, multi-step permits, right? Some permits have three or four stages. And I looked back at my track record in my history and I said, okay, which are the ones that I've made the most amount of profit, most margin on and were the least stressful? And it was the ones that we actually did the quickest, right? You

know, reducing our holding costs, but then also that we were very strategic on what it is that we did for renovation, right? There wasn't that, you know, we weren't doing additions. Those are the ones that I've lost money on. Yeah. So some people are very successful with those, but you know, that's how we came up with this 24-hour flip business model. And you don't have to go nuts renovating an entire house and knocking down walls, and the kitchen's not perfectly placed, the sink is here, it could be over there. All those things are going to add to the inefficiencies of a project.

And most people, the way that they actually do a flip is they get an offer accepted, they go through due diligence, they close on the property, then they go inside the house and they go, okay, let's hire the architect. Right. And he takes two or three weeks. And then once you have the plans,

then you're having your contractors bid it out. Then by the time you actually hire the contractors and have them sign and seal the permits, you submit it to the town. That's another three weeks, right? Just for them, at least in Jersey, it's 21 days by law that they have to get back to you with permits, right? That's if they don't want to change. And then before you know it, you're not even starting the job.

You go two and a half to three months out. So what, so one of the bigger inefficiencies, what you're saying, and I tend to agree is like speed of being ready to start. A hundred right. Whether it's again, I think in my world, I don't do a lot in the Northeast and their older homes and my own issue, but like the minimum have your general contractors going to run the project already have walked it, understand what's

about to happen so the day you fund, they can start moving. Yeah. So once, so you get a house under contract what you should do this is what we do you get a house under contract your past contingencies right titles clear you know you're closing on this damn house right I've never had past due diligence and I'm never past due diligence and title is clear and I don't close right right so I still typically have three or four weeks to close because people don't move out right away right so I schedule my closings typically 45 to 60 days out so I still typically have three or four weeks to close because people don't move out right away, right?

So I schedule my closings typically 45 to 60 days out. So I still have 30 days. So in those 30 days, I put a clause in my contract when I buy it that you're going to allow me access to the property with 24 hours notice for my architects, for my contractors, et cetera. So we go in there, we start measuring everything. We start doing the detailed scope of work all the way down to the door stops behind the doors, right? And we purchase all the materials before we even close on the house.

I'm ordering windows way ahead of time. It takes four, five, six weeks sometimes for windows, right? So 100% being ready to rock and roll when you actually close on that property is going to reduce your holding costs significantly. But construction, if you really think about it, there is a sequence of construction, right? You got a frame before you put up sheetrock. Yeah.

Right, but there's a lot of things that are also able to be done simultaneously on a property. Sure. And you see that on the show, right? If you're taking down a fence and you're doing the roof and you're painting inside and the plumber's doing his rough and the electrician's doing, you know, replacing outlets, they can all be doing that at the same time. But that's not how investors work, right? Investors hire...

Plumbers on Monday. Plumbers on Tuesday, I'll be done Thursday. And then he comes by himself or maybe with one guy. And construction all comes down to planning. And it also comes down to man hours Right and what a lot of people don't realize is that you know multiple things could be getting done at the same time And if you ask the contractor to bring more guys for example a painter Instead of having two guys painting you have ten guys painting right you can get it done faster It's just on how you plan and how you set it all up Yeah, and then you just so I would assume if a painter brought ten guys he's gonna be more expensive. He's got to pay all ten guys now. Well not necessarily because

if he had two guys they would just be there longer. That's right. Okay. So he would be paying those guys over five days right which is ten days. I'm even thinking about a property that we're in the middle of a rehab flip in San Antonio which has been frustrating me because it's taking too long. And I'm thinking about why it's taking too long as you are talking. And I'm like, oh my God, he's hitting it on the head. What the general contractor did is he just started going wide

and kind of starting everything, but nothing's really like, when you even walk in. Yeah, like he's kind of just getting everything going. And you're like, God god that's a 45 day burn Which cost me I think on that property with you all today. Yeah, we're at $2,200 for that a month So times another half, so we're we're just shy of four grand Yeah, because he kind of got everything started and his point is okay now we're ready to go out and I'm like For that. I don't know

if that was efficient. And it's all percentage of profit, right? If you're making a $200,000 profit, it's different than if you're making a $50,000 profit. No, it's a $50,000, it's a $150,000 home in San Antonio. This is not a... So yeah, I mean, if you lose $5,000 in holding costs, 10% of your profit. 100%? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to pre-planning, purchasing, and you know, I don't hire general contractors. I hire a project manager. I typically pay them a percentage of the profit. And or I do a flat fee. Okay. Okay, so the project manager is hiring directly the subs for organizing everything and I'm doing it with them. And then you know, but we're choosing everything ahead of time. I think one of the most important things is people get caught up in I want this to be in a magazine you know and I'm dramatic but like not he just want it to be the best thing. It's not necessarily what's the best for profit it's what's gonna look the best on Instagram. I think that is such a big thing is people need to think about profit first right and no pun to the book but like you need to figure out what is gonna be the best way to get the most amount of profit out of this home some homes you can make an art you got to go for it if you want to get the most profit then you got to go all the way most homes like 85% of the homes that is not the case

right you might have 15% of that market share that you say I got to go to the ball to the wall on this one yeah 85% of the time that is not the case you make a house that has mold all over it you have to gut it to the studss. That's right. I mean, you're not going to provide an unsafe property, right, for somebody. So not every property will qualify for the 24-hour flip business model. And to clarify, it's two 12-hour days, right? So the first 24-hour flip that I did was literally 24 hours. And that's, you know, that's it. Yeah. That was, that was. I'm glad you said that. I mean, we almost, we almost died that day. Yeah. And it was horrible.

So we just do it in two 12 hour days. Can you do it in three eight hour days? Yeah. You know, the idea is not necessarily to do a flip in 24 hours. It's to inspire people to do a three month renovation in seven days. That's right. Right. Just, you know, reduce your holding time, reduce the amount of stress and not for nothing

but when you have the plumber, the electrician, the framer and everybody on site on your property, what happens if you have an issue, you're like hey, you call him, he's in the other room, you're just like hey come over here. Yeah. You're not scheduling him, getting him here the next day before that guy can move on to his piece of the work. Right. You get things done, right? And it's very unique.

And the contractors freaking love it, Justin. Oh, of course. Because they're in and out and they get paid. Well, and a lot of times they blame each other, right? Like, oh, I gotta wait for the electrician before I can go for the roughs and whatever else, right? And you just, so I wanna kinda maybe highlight, like you don't use general contractors, okay?

You do profit share. How does that work? So, you know, I always a lot of people ask me because, you know, I do have a coaching program for New Jersey students only. By the way, so if you're in Jersey, maybe even New York or only Jersey. No, just Jersey. Jersey. If you're in Jersey watching or listening to this, I want you to reach out to John. Where can they go to learn more to connect with you? They could go to flipwithjohn.com

flip with John J-O-N. Flip with John J-O-N.com if you're in Jersey he can help you he can get you there whether you do 24-hour flips or at least become more efficient. Yeah. So make sure you go there make sure you follow them. Yeah so I always tell my students when they go well how do you do it and what do you pay people? Well, it depends on how many deals you're doing. If you're doing one deal a year, you're going to probably pay a project manager a higher percentage of the profit. If you're doing 10 or 10, 10 or 15 flips a year, then you could do a smaller percentage of the profit. OK, what I've done recently is just pay a flat fee. Right. So they're actually getting paid to do that job. And it depends on the scope of that job. So it'll be anywhere between like 10 to $20,000 flat fee, but then they're managing all the subs and doing all that. Right.

And is that a percentage of the profit essentially in your own? So you, I mean, if you're making 100 grand and you're paying them 15, then you're paying them 15%. Right. That's right. And so I go flat fee typically based in is a a 10% typically. 10% of profit? Yeah. Okay. So well no, 10% of rehab budget. Meaning so if I do a $50,000 flip I'm gonna give you five grand to go run that project. Now you need to find the subs, hire the subs, get the lien waivers. I mean you're running A to Z project. Right. But my model is a lot more on scale than I think yours is. Right? Like we want to try to acquire one to two properties a week. Right? And so we're running at a volume.

We're also not localized to one city. I'm not saying you're right or I'm right or you're wrong. I'm just saying my model is slightly different. And so let's talk about maybe what are three ways as a listener or listening to us right now? Like what would be the three things that you can say to create efficiencies? We've mentioned some of them, right? Making sure pre-planning, right? Pre-planning. So what does that even look like in terms of pre-planning? Like what needs to be pre-planned? Is it literally on paperwork? Are you? What does that look like? So number one is having the most detailed scope of work you possibly can. And that includes pictures and videos. So I do a Matterport of the before, and I'll literally sit in my house for a few hours

going through the whole entire Matterport. And for those of you that don't know, Matterport's just like a 3D tour of the property. And I will write down every single little thing that needs to be done. Everything. By room and by trade. I categorize it. Then step two is going to, I do 24 phases, each phase is one hour. So I go, okay, what's going to be done in phase one, right? Demo cleanup, you know, depending on what you're doing, we're taking down the fence, we're

throwing this out, everything. If you have a flagpole that's rusted, we're taking that out, you take that down, right? That's in this phase one scope or phase two, right? And you just, and then you put who is assigned to that, what trade, plumber, electrician, HVAC demo, et cetera. Right? And you might have like, I hire people just to clean the house the whole time. Yeah.

They're just cleaning. Going around the whole time. Yeah. They're just cleaning, cleaning, cleaning. I have one person that's gone hydrating everybody, giving them water, right? And you know, it's a little bit different than your normal job I guess you know we get food for everybody We have a runner to Home Depot or Lowe's or you know, whatever. I just all day running back and forth

Oh, I need this. I need this. They're in a be walks around what I was eating in their van They're going, you know, they're waiting in the Home Depot parking lot and hey, I need this and then they go in and then they come To the house Wow, right. So, I need this. And then they go in and then they come to the house. Wow. Right, so I mean it's simple. It's simple, simple pre-planning stuff. And of course you're gonna plan everything out from lunch, right? Like what time is lunch?

Are we cheating on them? Who's having lunch, et cetera. We typically take a break, everybody, and we have a line, people just line up. I don't know if they show that on the episodes. I haven't seen them all, so. 24 hour flip, guys. This is so cool.

Like I've done a lot of flips, man. So I would tell you, go watch it on Hulu, YouTube, every place you possibly can. A&E is the TV station. So, all right, so now you're- The other thing that I wanna, you know, before I forget, so a lot of people make the mistake in the decision-making phase, right? They're like, you know, my wife will go into a house, no joke,

and she'll be like, knock down this wall, knock down that wall. And I'm like, no, we're not knocking down walls, because that's going to require, you know, fixing the floors, getting permits, waiting for them to come and take a look at, you know, that we did it right. And then you can proceed. You can't do that if you're going to do a really quick flip. Sure. You just can't, right? And I'm not saying that, don't get permits. You get permits on things that are one-step

permits, but if there's things that are multi-step permits where it's like, I have to do framing, then insulation, then finish, the finish doesn't matter, but the first two are stopping you from moving forward in your sequence. So you're literally just waiting and you're wasting money and wasting time. So a lot of times, you know, even though the sink would be better off over here, you know, within three feet, I can move it, you know, and I don't, it doesn't require a permit. So I'm not going to move it over there. I'm just going to figure it out and not every house qualifies for this. Some are just functionally obsolete and you do need to make changes, you know, but you know, for example, a lot of times before I used to knock down the wall

between two bedrooms in a four bedroom house and make it a three bedroom and put a master math and a walk in closet. I don't do that anymore. Yeah. I don't. I just, I go, no, I'm going to get in and I'm going to get out and not for nothing, but people count your money. Yeah.

So when I get in and I get out and typically I'm on the market within seven days of buying it. Wow. So I'm on the market within seven days of buying it. Wow. So I'm on the market within seven days. In New Jersey, I don't know how it works in other states, but it takes about six weeks typically for the price to show up what you bought it for. So when I'm on the market, nobody knows what I bought it for. That's right.

If I renovate a house over two months, three months, and then I put it on the market, they're like, well, you just bought this house for 500. Right. And now you're asking 800. Right. It's like, yeah, but when I bought it, it was, you know, they're counting your money.

That's right. That's true. I could have inherited it for a dollar. Who gives a shit? Yeah, yeah. But they care about what you bought it for. Yeah. Well, I don't want them to make that much money.

Exactly. So I'm not gonna, you know, I'm gonna give them a low offer. Exactly. So it avoids that, okay? It avoids that it avoids that whole you know oh well he bought it for this you know it's it's renovated and a lot of people ask me well what about permits? Yeah. Well in New Jersey I don't know how it works in your state you can you can look it up at permitting, powdery, whatever. Direct replacement is allowed

right? No permits. I can take all the cabinets down, put new cabinets in and countertops and everything, have brand new kitchen, new appliances, everything and it doesn't require permits. I don't know any state that I'm in that would require that for direct replacement. Same thing with bathrooms, vanities here, okay? I'm not adding, I'm not changing it, I'm not putting the vanity on this wall, I'm putting it over here, no I'm leaving it there. Yeah. Direct replacement, toilet, direct replacement,

everything direct replacement. And, you know, if it's a water heater, you gotta get a permit. But that's one step permit. Yeah. You can put in the permit for that, replace a water heater, get the guy to come out. It doesn't stop you from doing anything, right?

Roofing, windows, siding, doesn't require permits. That's right. Right, unless you're doing the sheathing on the roof You know, then it's emergency work and you could get the guy out there But um, you just have to understand the rules of the game, right? We're playing a game Yeah, so the better, you know the rules the more that you could take advantage of how it works and then you have to be smart enough to say and Disciplined enough to say all right. I'm not gonna knock down that wall

Right, even though open layout concept's the thing, I'm not gonna do that because I wanna make money. And guess what, I've never not sold a house because I didn't knock down that wall. No. It sells, you just have to price it accordingly and purchase it accordingly. I was just gonna say, so you adjust for the price, right?

So you create an open layout, you create the modern look that people want, you might get your 800, but if you're not going to, you're gonna leave the wall up, you just replace what's already there, make it new, go white, comets or whatever, you know. You might sell for a 749. Yeah, I mean. 799. Or you might sell for, you know, a $10,000 difference. Okay. I mean, it's a lot of times it really doesn't make that big of a difference. It's more a matter of there's inventory. Wow, there's a renovated home. How many houses in your area are actually renovated and you know they're not at the

top of the market priced? Well that's what we do. We have a renovated home that's not at the top of the market and that's what people love. People love that because there's not a lot of inventory out there. It's not your area right? Yeah there's not a lot of inventory out there. It's not your area, right? Yeah, there's not a lot of inventory in any market, right? And for you to be able to provide a like new property, maybe it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it's like new, it's renovated, they have the updates they want. I really believe, I'm literally thinking about, we just bought a home in Georgia, right?

That I'm like, man, do we change kind of our game plan on on that You're making me think as I'm sitting here. This is this is fun Okay, so first is the planning phase like make sure you have an actual plan What would be the next thing someone can take away from this episode of like if I'm trying to speed up and create more efficiencies? Speed up so logistics right so we bought a 36 foot trailer You know if you're in the business, it's not a bad idea to do this. And we put all of our supplies there. Now look, I didn't have a 36 foot trailer

when I first started doing 24 hour flips. I rented a 24 foot U-Haul. Okay. Right, so we would literally put everything there and then the U-Haul's in front of the house. You open it like it's a storage facility. You can even do a pod. Yeah.

Right, and you have all the materials there for the whole job. So you have an inventory list. Smart. And you have everything there and you have some extras of stuff. Yeah. So you're not constantly running back and forth. You're always gonna have to go to the supply house store,

that's why we have our runner. But the idea is that you think through everything and you plan it. And then when you're, a lot of people are waiting on material so you know if I know that my windows are five weeks out I'm gonna order them before I you know when I know I'm gonna buy the house I'm gonna order it ahead of time a lot of times people tend to close on a property

and then they're ordering stuff and then they find out this you know this specific cabinet is six weeks out it It's like, okay, but what is the cost of that? Hold time and market risk. Because it's not just the holding costs. Interest rates go up, things change, right? If some sort of global event happened, it's gonna affect you negatively. And you're putting yourself at risk.

Well, so one of the things I believe, and tell me, you're a coach in Jersey and I coach across the nation, but I think part of the reason why that happens is raising the capital to go buy the materials and pre-order and do down payments and things of that nature. Now, I'm guessing some of you-

That's the cheapest, right? You could get a Home Depot line of credit. You can put stuff on your credit card. You have a 28-day grace period. If you're a new business owner, you can get a 0% credit card for 12 months. I mean, that's the least. The materials are the least of your capital raise, right? Yeah. It's mostly through the work and labor component, plus debt servicing, right?

So, again, if you have a $50,000 rehab rehab you're probably going into it with 15 grand of late materials yeah first year 20 grand yeah right and so but I think that's a mindset shift that I think people need to understand hear you again rewind what we're just talking about is I believe most people don't do what you're doing because the outlay of money out of the gate right it's gonna take me five weeks to get the product I Need to spend it now. I don't see anything for five weeks But it's the same thing when you buy the home you're gonna have to wait five weeks And I are spending more money by closing on the home right still waiting five weeks. It's just inefficient Yeah, and our margin here's the thing if you divide your after renovation value by your profit

You know when I do my numbers, when I buy a house, it's a minimum of 10%. You know, if I'm gonna resell a house for 800 grand, I need to make a minimum of $80,000 a month. That's right. Because God forbid anything were to happen, right? You know, and you might go over on construction a little bit, the market might shift a little bit.

You might go over, it's almost always in my world. Yeah, I mean, it depends. I'd count for it. I'd count for a 5% like the contractor didn't see the thing. Yeah. Or the thing broke or whatever. Or you add something or you change something because you're like, oh, I'm going to get a good ROI on this.

That's right. Right? So you're going to do it. You know? So what would be one third? So logistics, I really love that. I really love having whether it's a U-Haul or you have a trailer or whatever parked in front of the home with the materials in it.

A question before I get to the third thing that maybe they could have a takeaway, but maybe this might be one. Do you house, because you rehabbed in one specific city, do you house like five properties worth of flooring in everything is cookie cutter everything you're you're an open door version everything's the same no it's not okay and I don't I don't renovate just in one city you know it's one state you know but a few different counties and you know New Jersey is the most densely populated state in the country and it's very different from town to town right so the way that I make decisions on stuff is not necessarily systematic.

It's what has sold in that geographic area over asking price. And you know, what is the trend in that area? What do people want in that geographic area? And then I make my decisions by just looking at what the data is. And then I make the decisions on what we're going to do in that house based on that. So I don't go and buy, you know, 20 toilets, even though most of the time I use the same toilets, I don't do that and warehouse it because the discount that I'm getting, you know, for that is, first of all, there's logistics, there's headaches, there's stress, this breaks that,

you're past the refund period, et cetera. It's not worth it. Right. And then the cost of warehousing it. Yeah. It's, you know, makes no sense. The only thing that I've done a little bit is I'll buy like five appliance packages or something on the 4th of July sales. So it was like a really good sale. And I'm like, all right, I'm saving 10 grand if I do this and then Home Depot store it for me for three months. And within three months, I'll do it. That's a huge takeaway. Yes. Right. You know, things, little things like that, but I don't, I don't store everything or buy anything from China or, you know, import it. I don't necessarily trying to skimp per se.

What you are trying to do is create efficiencies. I mean, this is, you know, this isn't a TV show or a strategy of like, here's how you can skimp and still profit. This is like, here's how you become efficient and still profit and profit more most likely just think about your holding costs you go and flip for in a seven days turn right let's just say it took you seven days to put it on the market right takes you 45 days 60 days to close the end buyer if you find a good property right you just cut out three to six months of what I would underwrite towards of holding costs and market risk

and market risk and volatility and whatever you know interest rates and all this other stuff like it is so much smarter so I think the third takeaway which I really liked what you were just mentioning really comes down to being able to understand the value of the materials and to be able to pre-plan around the materials yeah I like that to pre-plan around the materials. Yeah. I like that, right? Is to just understand the market, know what county does what type of remodel, what are the color schemes that are popular, what's moving. Understanding the market creates efficiency to know I can go after this type of material. Yeah. We can move faster. Let's go. And the reason why I have a project manager and not, you know, just do subs or not just do a GC is because we all have to understand that

contractors are inefficient. So by actually having all the materials, you're making them more efficient because they typically will send a guy or two to like help to Home Depot for hours out of the day, multiple times. Right, just think about how much is lost during that. That's right. Right, so and to Home Depot for hours out of the day, multiple times. Just think about how much is lost during that. That's right. Right, so, and over and over again, compounded over the job, and you're paying for that.

That's right. Even if you're not paying people per day, you're still paying for that. For debt, hard money costs. I mean, I think people don't estimate how much, I mean, they understand the number, what the monthly number is, but like, how much they would be savings, saving. Everything adds up and you have to reduce your profit destroyers. Like my business model is a little bit

different than yours and you know my goal is to do 10 to 15 flips that net $100,000 or more per year or per deal. Yeah. Right? So if I can do, I'd rather do one $100,000 profit deal than three $35,000 deals. That's right. You know, it's just an efficiency thing, right? And I go after more affluent areas. Why? Because less people are marketing to those areas because most people are buying the lower priced areas.

So I have less competition. Most people are buying the lower priced areas. So I have less competition. I buy in the higher end areas and private lenders, which is what I use, like to invest in high end areas because they're like, oh, I know that town. That's a great town. I'm like, yeah. And they're like, yeah, let's go.

Yeah. Right, it's just all around, it's different. So you have to decide on your business model on how you wanna do it. And I don't leverage the fact that I'm on a show and all that stuff, and that's why people lend me money. I've been borrowing private capital since 2007. Yeah.

Right? When I was 21 years old. So anybody can do it. And if you need to start out with a hard money lender, putting 10% down and taking the construction draws, whatever, you get a couple deals under your belt. But if you show that this level of efficiency, even if it's a 30-day right now

That's better than what most people are doing. That's right. And the model makes more sense I think there's a takeaway so my model we just do separate things and I'm not saying one's right or wrong I tried to stick under 300,000 the reason being is I Like the idea in the concept that if something does go wrong and there is a volunteer I can rent it. I always had that same concept too and then you know I you know when inflation started getting crazy this is just my my opinion sure affluent people are less affected by inflation. There's no doubt. You know and people that are in the two three four hundred thousand dollar range and in New Jersey that that looks like a $500, $600,000 range

because the prices are so high. At least in my area of New Jersey, they're a lot more affected by inflation. And the interest rates being at 7%, which they are right now. So that was always the idea, because I don't see a slowdown in the $1.5 million, $1.2 million, $2 million homes. No, because you and I and the people that can afford it

can afford it. And we say, okay, so the interest rates at 6.75 is not ideal, but not the worst. Yeah, most people are buying cash. Right, and I was gonna say, I put more down so I weigh it off from which leverage. 50% down or something like that, yeah. So, and look, they all work.

You can, it's not, you know, this is the only way to do it. There's a million ways to make money. It's just, what do you want? What are you excited about? And what's your skillset? Right? You and I are, I'm 18 years into this and I think you're about the same, right? We started the same trajectory. I think we met in San Diego in 2007. Like we're like, it's been a long time we know each other. So, but most people listening to this are not us. And so that's where the people need to decide what do you want your business to look like, right? Like you start with the end of mind.

Do you want to become a John or Justin or vice versa? Well, for them, they're gonna have to learn how to raise money. You do a hundred percent private. I do 50% private, right? So I still like using hard money because then I don't have as much need for the private. Neither is wrong. No, and I used hard money. Like, yeah, I mean, on the 24 hour flip, there was a, you know, one of my private lenders was like, hey, I'm actually buying a property. I'm not lending money on this deal. And he had earmarked that money for my deal. So I went to my local hard money lender, right? Alpha funding. Okay. They're awesome. And you know, they closed

that deal in less than 10 days. That's great. Right? So, you know, hard money is another form of capital, right? What I dislike about hard money is the monthly payments. There was a time I had 26 properties at once, and my bills were 65,000 a month. So I'll flip a house, make money, and then that would pay next month's bills. That's right. Right? So, you know, the chokehold is really that monthly payment. If you can do it with private capital, you know, I do it where you invest the money and then you get the money back plus your interest at the end of the deal when we close.

That's where there's no monthly payments. It's really the idea is because if you're at volume on any scale, those monthly payments, I did the same thing and forget what year it was, 2012 maybe, I had like 96 flips that I bought and completed. The choke holds cash. I mean, you literally go like, I'm not paying myself. I'm paying debt service the whole time. Right. Like you have to stop flipping in order to get your money. That's basically it. right? And that's the shittiest part is you basically have to stop buying so you can finally actually have the profit to be able to pay yourself.

And God forbid that you're in a market where things go sideways and then you're stuck holding the bag and then you're like, shit, all the profit that I just worked for, That's right. you know, is in these deals and now they just all went down. And we know, and then the other part of this is you got to stop marketing, stop buying,

and we know then the cycle of that trajectory. What happens is that means the next quarter, once you finally, it's a tough quarter too. Right. Because you didn't buy anything for a quarter because you had to slow down. And so there's that, I love that, where you go, you know, private financing,

no debt servicing, it accrues, pay off off over potential equity share if if maybe maybe not but like It's a beautiful model right in I would tell people to your point Figure out what you want your model to there's no wrong Yeah, no, you just need to adjust for what you your model you want to look like now. You're specific to Jersey I'm asking everyone right now because it's obvious, the obvious. Trump's here. Yeah. Interest rates. Go Trump. Go Trump. We are, we already see, and I see Jason's here, so he's an economist by trade, and so he's all over, but I say, I say that because where do you see, like Northeast, I don't play much in the

Northeast. Price being one of them, winter's being another. So I just, you know, if I found something in Jersey, at least I could call you and have a relationship that I'd feel comfortable, but in a general sense. Now where do you see Jersey as a state like Jersey? Everything's very expensive. Miami's very expensive. You live in some of the most expensive areas you can. Where do you see the Jersey market going for yourself? I mean the inventory is very low. I think that has a lot to do with New York City

even though New York City is bouncing back. I think the Trump administration has definitely helped from a perspective of hope and you know the areas that had high crime and stuff like that like some of the areas in New York City. People feel a little bit different now. Okay. Meaning in a more optimistic way. Sure. So you know we might see a little bit lower of an influx in New York City, people feel a little bit different now. Okay. Meaning in a more optimistic way. Sure. So, you know, we might see a little bit lower of an influx in New York, but then it'll bounce right back and we get kind of the overflow. Why?

Because when New York is doing well, their prices go up. And when their prices go up, people seek to find other, you know, properties and they go to New Jersey. That's right. Right. And if you are, if you're selling like a $1.5 to $2 million house in New Jersey, 90% of your buyers are Jersey City, Hoboken, right? Which are people that work in Manhattan or people in Manhattan or Brooklyn, right? In the nice areas of Brooklyn. Yeah. They're buying in the suburbs. They want good schools

and they have, you know, their wife is pregnant. They already have a kid and they want more space. Yeah. Right. So we have a kid and they want more space. Yeah. Right. So we have that kind of benefit in Jersey that we get the overflow from New York. Um, and Miami is like, you know, it's like New York, but with nice weather and more expensive real estate. Very expensive.

It's crazy. Yeah. It's I mean, I'm blown away by Miami and there's a lot of opportunity here as well. I just, I've always been the type of person that you can track the space. If you can hit your goals in one geographic area, your life will be easier if you focus and know everything there is to know,

and you know that area like the back of your hand. That's just, you know, and that's why I like my coaching programs only in Jersey. Yeah. Right, I have people are like, oh, in California, can you coach me? I'm like, look, I give my coaching students contractor resources, you know,

we go to people's properties, it's very intimate, it's very different, it's not like a scaled program. Yeah. Right, so it's, that's why we just focus in on that geographic area. Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of validity, I mean I know there is, right, as someone that runs a company that fix and flips

in nine states, I buy and hold in nine states. I coach throughout the United States. I know the pros and cons to my side. And I think the cons lean into why you do what you do. You basically, you know the numbers, you know the neighborhoods, you know the people, you have so many more controllables when you stick to one state.

It's very localized, realistically. Of course. But you have people on the ground too, in those geographic areas that you're typically partnering with, so it's a little bit different. The upside for me is because of how even my coaching program is, is national, so I'm one call away from anywhere, in any city, in any state.

It's different. I don't like to partner with people. No. Yeah. I don't know if they did their tax returns or not. Then we go to sell the house and now we got to pay their tax bill. There you go. That's right. Which is actually happening. I was just going to say, it sounds like you've done that before.

Yeah. Yeah. So I try to keep it as simple as possible. But, you know, from, you know, when you're when you're doing business, you just need to decide on, you know, you can make money in any area. It doesn't matter if it's low end, if it's high end, if it's one area or nationwide, like I'll look at anything nationwide if it's commercial because it's strictly based on cap rate, which is easy to find. And it's based on the numbers of the income and the expenses of the property, right? You're just coming up with the NOI and dividing it by cap rate. That's the value. And you want to

get it cheaper than that and see if there's any value at or upside to it. So with those type of properties, it's different. In single family construction and flips, I feel like you definitely need somebody boots on the ground that's going to understand that municipality and all the little quirks from that area. Across the street, it could be a totally different school district, right?

And that school district is less desirable, you know? There could be negative stigmas in that area, external factors that you really can't control that you wouldn't know if you weren't there locally. I wouldn't ever suggest any of my students, your students, anyone to fix and flip in a market that they don't personally either live in or have very strong ties to.

Because everything you just said. Like even when I coach national I say great if you're at a market wholesaler right? But if you have very strong ties and or live in there and you're looking at flipping then then I will give some justification. But even then you just run too much risk for all the things that we're aware of right? And number one on that risk list is contractors in my opinion. that we're aware of right and number one on that risk list is contractors in my opinion. Bad contractors will bankrupt you very very fast. Yep two people could buy the same house and one guy hires the wrong contractor the other guy hires the right one one guy makes money the other guy loses money. That's exactly right that is the number one risk I see when when remodeling. And 18 years in I'm still dealing with bad contractors it's not not totally avoidable right yeah but in

your case because you're you're you know the people, right? And I feel like construction's gonna go up in price now, for sure, because a lot of people that are undocumented are in the construction business, at least in New Jersey. I speak fluent Spanish, my mom was born in Uruguay, she immigrated here, so I kinda have an advantage that I speak fluent Spanish, but a lot of our guys, you know, that are our contractors, you know, their license, their insurance, et cetera. But then for them

to get the laborers that work, I mean, you know, I don't ask if they're documented, but I don't think a lot of them are. That's right. Right. So, you know, is that going to put pressure on the construction industry making it even more expensive? I'm gonna say yes. It's things that people need to think about. That's right. And you need to know that tradespeople, there's less and less of them.

And the ones that have been around for a long time, they're not being replaced. They say, if you wanna become a millionaire, don't go to college, become a plumber, right? Become an electrician. Why? Because there's gonna be so much demand. For trades, yeah. And I don't know if AI and robotics and everything is gonna, that's not the first place that, you know, all that stuff's gonna disrupt. That's right.

You know, it's gonna be everything behind a computer and maybe like menial tasks, but not necessarily plumbing and electricians. Not to take us too far off the course here as we're wrapping up but like what about all these cement homes and blanking on the word with you the machines are really building. Like the 3d printing? Yeah. Yeah I mean that's great but you still need to you still need to build out the internal. Yeah absolutely but you're still like I mean think about four-year five-year was this even a concept that you and I would think about right like holy hell. I think about all the framers. I think it's great I mean look think about four year, five year, was this even a concept that you and I would think about? Right, like, holy hell. Think about all the framers. I think it's great.

I mean, look, if you're an entrepreneur and you could cut costs and that's a profit destroyer, then you'll be good. There's always gonna be people in situations that need to sell their home. And that's what's important. If you're gonna get good at one thing, if you're gonna get good at one thing,

get good at finding deals. Get good at marketing, get good at negotiation, get good at one thing, if you're gonna get good at one thing, get good at finding deals. Get good at marketing, get good at negotiation, get good at presenting your offer. This is what we kind of focus on. Because if that does get disrupted through different things, then awesome. But if you're in densely populated areas like New Jersey, I mean, you're not knocking down the house

and building a new one. Most of the time you're not doing that. Maybe in other states where there's a lot of land and you know, there's a lot of development, then that could be a huge opportunity to provide affordable housing, which is definitely needed and wanted and you know, hopefully that will help solve that issue. It's interesting. I watched a, I don't know if it was on CNBC, but I watched something about this. I just said, man, between the framing, the need need no need for framers anymore right roofing right you go they're really building the external

and there's two trades at least I'm aware of that all of a sudden just got essentially disrupted right you got to disrupted right I know but it's disrupted only on new construction that's so on existing homes you need them it's not going anywhere that's right that's Throw a robot in there. Try to see what happens. Put a robot, make this floor. See what happens. So I mean, you know, home services industry, I feel like it's going to be one of the last things to get disrupted.

Which is for entrepreneurs, which is another show that we like, that's where I want to lean into in my next decade. Yeah. I want to lean into home services. Yeah. Wearing H-backed roofing. I mean, it's... We have a brokerage, right?

We sold 1600 homes in 2024. Okay. Congratulations. Thanks. You know, we have a few hundred agents, we have four offices, and it's an unbelievable ancillary service, home services. You know, somebody buys a house, they want to do stuff, right? They need ongoing services, HVAC maintenance, power washing, landscaping.

You know, there's so many avenues to make money there, but a lot of people don't wanna put in that grit and that hard work. There's no doubt. People need to get paid if you're gonna hire employees. People aren't okay with making minimum wage and just making 150 bucks. You can't live on that anymore.

Oh my God, hell no. Yeah. Thank you for coming. TV Star, 24 hour flip. You can see it on A&E, Hulu, YouTube. Just Google it, yeah. Just Google it. And if you're in Jersey, make sure you reach out to them.

I tag them all over my social media. John Steingraber is here. Thank you for showing up. Thank you. Appreciate you. All right, guys, have fun. All right, if this helped you guys, even with the three points of efficiencies,

make sure you share it with some people you know that need to watch this. See you guys on the next episode. Peace.