The Science of Flipping - Is Email and SMS Marketing for Real Estate dead? | Jon Kirk

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

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Yo, yo, welcome back Science of Flipping family. We are back here with another episode with a good friend of mine, a team member of mine, an ex-student, if you wanna say ex, but always a big student. We have John Kirk in the house. How are you, brother? Yo, yo, what up, my man?

How are you? Good, good. Listen, I'm excited to run this case study. For all of you, do not leave this episode. We are gonna talk about how I believed email was dead and it is not dead. In fact, John was able to help us get a deal internally all through email. So we're going to want to walk through exactly how that happened. So if you have never done a deal only based around communication through email, then you're going to want to listen to this because our system allowed him to do a deal from front to back, get it sold in Detroit of all

cities, all through email. So dude, I'm excited that you were able to break away and share some of this because I think this case study about this deal is really telling the difference in today's real estate market, right? Gone is text messaging. And a lot of people are frustrated with sellers and leaves. So let's talk about kind of what you've been able to see now in our system, working these deals and what's going on out there in the streets. Yeah, man, thanks for having me on Justin. Appreciate that, dude. We're just seeing so much disruption, like you mentioned with the texting, right? For so long. I remember when I first got into your world, it was the text train, right? And I was just doing, you know, all my business through the outbound machine

of texting. And lately we've just seen such strict regulation and compliance where somebody's like, how'd you get my number? You know, we're getting stopped and spammed and cut off. So the new ways that we've created within our system to allow us to do these deals are going back to email, right? Nobody's messaging on email right now. And we're hitting people on all the different platforms of communication simultaneously and not relying on human performance, more so of automation and the AI that you have interweaved within the automation that really does a lot of the heavy lifting that we're experiencing the success from. Now, you're not, by the way, just to give some kudos to you, John is not a rookie. You come from a 12 or 13 year career as a realtor in the Maryland, DC, Baltimore area, correct? Yeah, correct. Retired realtor, no longer realtor. So I'm in your world now full time. That's right. That's what I like to see. And so you came into my business kind of with this,

I know what I'm doing, but I need to execute better. And you actually were pretty pivotal in helping me see some of this AI transitioning in how the culture of real estate has really started to develop and adopt AI. Some of this automation that you've kind of encouraged me and my team to build out for all of this. Let's talk to that, right? In the power of the internet. Let's talk to what you really kind of, you were the impetus to help my team push for to have this online presence, to bring in these leads.

We're now bringing in over a, I think you know this, we're bringing in over a hundred leads a day, every day into our CRM. It's insane. Yeah, it's pretty wild. It's a two-pronged approach, right? So we've got this patchwork of technologies where first, obviously at the very top of a big funnel, if you could visualize traffic being sent, just trying to throw traffic into a funnel. We've got our minute pages, websites that have the lead detector technology that lies within it that is first identifying and capturing. That's the linchpin in the first place why this whole system we built behind it was possible. Because typically when motivated sellers go to a website to sell their property, only two to maybe five or on the best websites, 10% of them will

fill out their name, their email, their address, their phone number. Justin, call me. I want to sell directly to you. Problem is, is those two to 5%, they're filling out their information on so many different websites. So the speed to lead is super important when it comes to that versus the anonymous lead capture that we have in Lead Detector is getting the 15 to 50% of all the traffic that we're sending to our websites at a 95 plus percent accuracy. They come with the email, they come with the phone numbers. So even without the text messaging, you know, we're consistently assigning over just $20,000 a month in assignment fees just on email alone, because an automated email and automated text is going out to these anonymous visitors who came to our website for a reason, but then left without filling out information. And then yet,

here they are responding to the automation and the AI when they never actually filled out a form in the first place, which shows us that it's not that they weren't interested, which is why they didn't fill out a form. It's because they just didn't want a phone call at that specific time. Now we know this, it's incumbent upon us as real estate sales professionals to have the technology, to have the software, the automation and AI to be able to do the heavy lifting for us and send the soft text, the soft email powered by AI, which actually gets you super high deliverability and extremely high response rates.

And then the safety nets we've built after that, if for some reason they don't respond to the text or email, we've got the ringless voicemail going out, which is 30% of all skip trace phone numbers or landlines, which most investors and wholesalers ignore, as do real estate agents. And then a direct mailer, which we're designing ourself with our in-house team and the Facebook retargeting that uses our proprietary retargeting technology, which with lead detector technology, Justin, you know, we're not at the mercy of Facebook's new algorithms with Facebook ads or the iOS updates. We're going down to the hash codes on people's phones, identifying down to the user ID, which is why the accuracy is so astonishing with what we're capturing and why you're seeing all these 45, 50 plus people saying, I want to sell my house right now, I'm going to get an offer. Yeah, we're on a podcast right now. And I know many of you guys are watching this over on my YouTube, but like, man, the visual aspect of really seeing this is really powerful.

I mean, we have, you know, John was really pivotal in my team adopting this and building this out and helping us understand like, Hey, if there's a way to take this whole AI concept, right? Everyone knows that AI is a big thing. There's lists, uh, you know, you can pull lists that have a lot of AI in there that can say who's motivated or not. We what he basically mentioned, this is over a year ago about like, hey, we need to build something out internally, as he started working with us, let some of this automation start happening and target real motivated sellers that really want to sell. Now, you know, john, I mean, we still need to get to the number that works for us. So just because they need to sell doesn't mean we can get the right number. But, you know, just the visual component of these leads coming in,

and you basically were the impetus for us to build out basically our own new type of CRM that created this automation and created this communication through AI that started to allow, you know, I think there's a lot of experienced investors that, you know, their team is cold calling or texting and you get a lot of FUs or maybe you're sending mail and you're getting a lot of FUs. This automation is actually allowing us to not even have to view those unhappy people. And only when someone actually raises their hand to us and my team, we actually have the ability to go reach back out. And that's, you know, the case study that I want to share is that's exactly what you

did, right? Let's, let's talk about this deal where I believe she lived in France. We're in France. Let's talk about this deal because you running acquisitions found the lead that she engaged with us. And it wasn't even off the first email, right? We actually had to send her. She first got the email. We also had to send her direct mail. She went back to the website, recaptured the lead, filled out. No, this lady was actually always out of state. She went to our website and then abandoned the website and there was no phone number attached. It was just the address on Strasburg street in Detroit, Michigan and her email. And then our AI sent out an email

saying, Hey Patricia, this is John. If this isn't Patricia, my apologies, blame Google. I believe you own a home at Strasburg street. If so, I'd love to have a quick chat with you. She responds back. Hi, this is Patricia. Yes, I own the home at Strasburg Street, and I want to sell it. And I was just like, somebody's messing with me here. That's just never happened before. You told me to be ready for this because you had just turned the system on the day prior. So this literally hit the ground running immediately. I tried to get the lady on the cell phone.

I tried to call this weird number. It didn't work. Hit her through WhatsApp. Didn't work. She's responding to the email. I'm like, what do you want to sell it for? She told me she bought it for $52,000 in 2021, but that she'd like to lose as little money as possible.

So, you know, make her an offer. I offered her $19,750 with a 30-day close. And I anchored her and I said, look, you know, we've got this other one that we purchased, you know, recently, same bed, same bath square footage for like $22,000. I said, is there more price you could submit to my system to get the price up? Just anyone a positive. And she's like, that's a very low price. Can you give me $20,000? And that's when I called you. You were like, lock it up. And then we assigned it that same day to Todd for $38,000, an $18,000 Delta. And then it made a clear picture of how she bought the house through the property management company. They put a tenant in there who wasn't supposed to be there. She ended up

squatting. A month later, we hadn't closed it. She's like, Jonathan, what's going on with the tenant? I said, look, I thought the property was empty when we agreed on price. I know you did as well. She did agree to that. So then I went in and I said, listen, we'll the property was empty when we agreed on price. I know you did as well. She did agree to that. So then I went in and I said, listen, we'll close on it for $10,000 with the tenant inside. We'll take care of the evictions, the carry costs, all that stuff that we have to deal with. And we could just be done with it. And she's like, if I understand this correctly, you take care of the eviction, pay me $10,000, long story short.

She reduced it to 10. I reduced Todd's price from $38,000 down to 30. And there's a $10,000. Long story short, she reduced it to 10. I reduced Todd's price from $38,000 down to $30,000. And there's a $20,000 hit literally out of the ether, out of thin air when I never spoke to the seller on the phone. And that's when it dawned on me that we have stumbled onto a goldmine with this technology, with this automation and with the AI that's eliciting this response in a more charming way than a human ever could that you hired to work for you. Well, and to be clear, the entire transaction was over 100%. Not once. It was entirely, I have the whole entire chain that I can show anybody that wants to see it anytime. Yeah. I mean, it's really incredible. And the reason why I wanted to share this case study is specifically on my podcast is a couple fold, but one of it is people need to know that times are changing. We need to adapt. And it's

not just the interest rates that are changing. Like AI plays a big part of the world right now. Like we pull lists internally that has an AI bot running and scraping data over 40 billion data points to figure out who has the highest motivation to sell. So what we can do in our system also is take that same list, upload it into our system, and then let the AI automation communicate with these individuals to start. A lot of business owners that are in my seat, they have this whole team of people. All these people are cold calling that same list. If they can even get it, they may not even have it. There's no automation.

So they have to have all these people to go reach out to the 2, 3, 4, 5,000 people where we have the automation. Then just like this lady, Patricia, just like Patricia reached back out. We wait for them to say, yes, I'm interested in selling my home or yes, I'm interested in having a phone call or yes, I would like to receive an offer. Something positive. And then the team gets involved in this case. John didn't even have to call or just replied to her email. The email kept going.

But everyone needs to understand this is the time for adapting, being fluid, being, you know, someone or a business that can roll with what's currently happening. Now I kind of mentioned John in, you know, this is like some of this technology these, these days is incredible. Like this lead detector that we have on our website, right? Our nation, our what's our website website? Nationwide seahours.co. I mean, literally, I'll tell you guys, don't go there because unless you're willing to stay at home, we're going to capture information, right?

And this stuff can literally, and what we've done is we've been able to create enough connectivity with the tech that it funnels directly into our CRM. And that's where the CRM starts the communication, right? How does it, how does it all work? Cause you've helped me see the vision to implement it, but we still have our tech team do that. What, how does that whole. Yeah. So, and, and, and I want to drive home, you know, um, the whole point behind this is that

there's so many people that are Googling, you their problem to try and accomplish their goal to sell their property or clicking on ads to go sell their house and going to a website and then leaving the website. For years and years, this has been the way it's been. But up until now, most website owners have been blind to those abandoned visitors. So the way that our website works, Lead Detector standalone, we could put it on anybody's website, or if you have a minutepages.com website, it's got Lead Detector built into it. We're going to get the fills, of course, we're going to capture them. But we've designed our business model around the gold that nobody else has been able to see or identify. It's the 95% of people that went to these motivated home

seller sites to get their property sold, but were not ready for a phone call. These people you were never capturing before, you're now capturing 15 to 50% of all the traffic that lands on a website and has lead detector inside of it at a 90 to a 98% accuracy. So now you're going to have a new problem where you've got a bunch of data, which I collected, Justin, we collected it for about a year and a half before we really did anything with it. It wasn't until we saw one of our other users close a $34,000 assignment fee, where I was getting ready to get back on the phone and cold call. I was like, there's something to

these leads. And then when I got my butt handed to me, I was like, there's got to be a way. And we went internal with our team. And then, you know, this was born, right? So the identification and the capturing is done from the MinutePages websites after traffic is sent to it at a very high accuracy. You're going to get a lot of leads, but you're going to have to either manually reach out to them yourself, because when you skip trace them, comes back with landlines, mobiles, and emails, sometimes three or four different landlines, two or three different mobiles, and two or three different emails, it'll make an ISA gloss over, let alone a business owner. So being able to send all of that data to the Rocketly system, where the automatic text, the email, the ringless voicemail, the direct mailer,

the Facebook retargeting with our proprietary retargeting tech all goes out. It envelops them in this web of marketing where this omnipresence takes place where they're just like, I guess this is the company. Click's the soft touches with the automation powered by the AI that's eliciting this amazing response that we're getting, where I think we've only just cracked the surface of what we're about to experience. So I asked you before we started this podcast, I know I'm going to get a lot of questions and I know I'm not going to know how to answer them because I'm not the tech guy. Full transparency. John helped create the vision and then we had our tech team build this whole thing out. So what I asked you is what I'm going to tell everyone now. John offered to give some time to people who are interested to actually see

what the hell we are talking about and how powerful this can be. So what we did is if you go to to Rocketly, R-O-C-K-E-T-L-Y dot A-I, Rocketly dot A-I, it'll say schedule a call. Those calls will go straight to John. Okay. So all of you here watching this on YouTube, all of you listening on iTunes and Spotify, go to Rocketly dot A-I, schedule a demo. I actually asked them to schedule a demo with you guys, because I know I'm going to get an inbound and a flurry of questions that I know I'm not going to know how to answer technically. So he does. He helped us build this whole thing out and he's been getting deals for us ever since. And for that, I just asked them, please spend some time with the right people because I think people are going to want this type of scenario, the software and the build out. Now, just in transparency, the only other people besides myself that have this are actual

science of flipping community members. So this is going to be the first time that we are going wide with even talking about it. It's always been a little bit of our secret. And so I've come to the realization I want to give back to everyone listening, not just my members. So, uh, if you want to take me up on that, speak with John, do a zoom call, whatever John wants to do, go to rocket lead.ai and do that. Right. Cause you only get so much from us talking about it right now. I'm sure many of you guys are like, Oh my God.

Now, John currently has a moment in time, you know, cause you and I are in the CRM all the time, like we're getting 80, 90 leads a day with this exact same thing. And we're at scale, right? Meaning the cost of our leads. And here's a big one for everybody. We're under a dollar a lead, but we are at scale. Truthfully, that's not going to be the same for everybody. But out of that, how many right now do we have? I don't think I remember, but I think we have like 160 people that are already engaging.

Yeah, they're currently engaging with one of our marketing pillars, the text, the email, the RVMs, the direct mailer, or the retargeting, which brings them back into the engage lead section. And then when they go stale after 48 hours from there, they'll then move into a stale lead section where either the RVMs will go back out, the direct mailer or the retargeting will turn back on. And it's only if they don't respond for 30 days, we then will turn off and put them in a long-term follow-up. Yeah. And all that stuff is automated. And so I tell you, there's a's a couple key components you want to know what minutepages.com is so minutepages.com is the resource i use for all of our websites right um very well done websites there's a blog don't we utilize a blog writer the ai blog writer is a part of that right isn't that all doesn't that play into the wolf too that just recently got rolled out that has been one of the biggest game changers we've been the most excited about. Since lead detector has been our feature flagship token feature, it's like

there's been nothing else that has shook the world in the real estate website world until this AI blog writer was released, which is proprietary and exclusive to minutepages.com. So you can literally put in a keyword that you'd like to rank for or a combination of words, and it will spit back out a 2000 plus optimized human written blog at a 99% human originality with a 1% AI. You know, no errors, no duplicate content, you know, just fresh blood of content. I like to say that nobody else has created. So when it gets published, Google's crawlers see that. It literally creates two to five leads.

We're seeing some of our users get for every blog that they publish, for every blog they're getting leads. And it shows in your lead management section, when you see the leads come in, it shows you which page it came from. So, you know, we're just seeing what Nick Verney is, you know, how many leads he came in, got in from just that one blog. It's wild. It's crazy. It's crazy. Well, so first of all, everyone should go follow John. He always is dropping great golden nuggets. He's a big, big part of our community at Science of Flipping. Not just my real estate team, but the entire Science of Flipping community, always giving. He's stepped up as a leader within the community and is giving back to a lot of the other community members. So make sure you're following John David Kirk, J O N David Kirk. If you guys are really like, man, I want to kind of see this ecosystem you guys built out. I tell you guys go to rocker.ai book

a call with John. I've asked him to do this for us because I know I'll get a lot of you like want to know more, um, do that. And then that'll allow you to book a call with John and you guys can go from there. Um, what, what are some other things that you want to that'll allow you to book a call with John and you guys can go from there. What are some other things that you want to talk about really quickly to kind of end this episode? But the thing I want to highlight for everybody, the industry is changing, the market's changing, but it's not just the interest rates. It's the whole way we are working the business. And that's what I want to say. I've built a 20 person sales team in house on the phones in the office. I would never do that again. You just don't need to. Right. And that's the highlight of why I wanted John to do this is where we built something internally now that there's enough automation. There's still human connection. Right. That's why John got that deal just recently over email. But there's enough automation that you don't need to have that all stuff in the house. What would be some final words? Yeah. Human performance will never compare to artificial intelligence and automation.

The machines will always outwork a human being. So if you have a team and you're going into the future betting that it's going to grow, it's going to dominate, it's going to evolve, and you're not adapting to AI and automation, you're going to compete against it. And humans, there is no competition. They're going to be working when we're sleeping. When we're sick and we don't want to come in, the AI doesn't get sick. The automation doesn't get sick. So you're either going to almost get down or lay down type of thing. And we've never seen a product quite like Rocketly before, simply because we've never seen anything like Lead Detector. Like, cannot forget, folks.

I want to drive this home, Justin. And thank you for asking that because this is really, it's got to be driven home. There's so many people going to websites in need of products or services that are not inputting their information. Lead Detector should be in all websites in all industries, but it's right now first in the real estate space. So for those listening that can take advantage of this, you're going to get leads. You're going to get a lot of them at a very high accuracy. My question is, is what are you going to do with them then? Are you going to hire a full-time staff to follow up with them? Are you going to hire AI and automation to do it for you? It's a fully inbound AI-powered

seller lead system that we've built to now combat technology, to combat AI. We can't beat it. We can at least compete with it. But we know as humans, you can never have a dog in that fight against the machines. So it's unfortunate that people are going to be removed from their job, but it's happening in all industries. So I'm seeing the companies that are killing it right now are heavily investing in AI and automation now. Since there's blood in the streets, when most people run back in, those people are running back out and they're doubling down on their systems. I know many people are probably going to have questions because of technology, which is not easy for everyone. But that's why I asked John to do that. So go to rocketly.ai, book a call with John, he'll jump on a zoom. Also lead detectors, leaddetector.io and minutepages.com for your website. That is

today's episode. John, I appreciate you spending 20-30 minutes with us here at Science Flipping. And we'll see you all on the next episode. Peace.