The Science of Flipping - Starting Over with Real Estate at 40 Years Old | Jeremy Beland

Starting point is 00:00:00 All right, Science Flipping Podcast listeners, as always, this episode is brought to you by Rocketly.ai. If you're looking for a seller lead generating system that has automation in AI bot and has sellers coming to you, then Rocketly.ai is your choice. Make sure you head over to the website, fill out an application and schedule a demo now to see the power of Rocketly.ai. What is up, Science of Flipping family? Welcome back to another episode of the podcast, The Science of Flipping. Jeremy B. Land is in the house. He's an incredible real estate investor, someone that I had the privilege of getting to know in the boardroom mastermind.

Starting point is 00:00:43 And most recently, I got to know a little bit more about his story. What is up, brother? What's happening? How are you? Hey, Justin. Man, life is great. Just happy to be on the show. It's a privilege.

Starting point is 00:00:53 It's an honor. Thank you for having me as a guest today. I really appreciate it. So little known story. Did you know I lived in Boston for about a year? I did not know that. It's a great city. It is a great city.

Starting point is 00:01:04 I lived right in Beacon Hill, so right downtown. I owned a door- I did not know that. It's a great city. It is a great city. I lived right in Beacon Hill. So right downtown, I owned a door to door sales company. Wow. And you can imagine how a California boy, yours truly, handled going door to door in the winter. Yeah. Great. Let's just say I had to call my family and move back to California. Not kidding at all. That was smart. Yeah. My wife and I, we woke up this morning,. Not kidding at all. That was smart. Yeah. My wife and I, we woke up this morning before a morning walk. It was a balmy 16 degrees this morning.

Starting point is 00:01:30 It was lovely. A balmy. Dude. So listen, you have a eerily similar story to mine. And I knew the second we started talking about that, that this episode was going to be fire because you have created something really, really special coming from a very dark place. I've been able to, I pride myself on doing the very same thing.

Starting point is 00:01:52 And I think the more people hear from myself, but not just myself, but people like yourself, that regardless of the predicament you're in, regardless of where you're at financially, regardless of the situation that you think is insurmountable, it can be overcome. As long as you go do my five principles, decide what you want and who you need to be, get it and commit to it and take massive action. Those three are, you are the epitome of it, dude. So I'd love to just jump into your story a little bit. So people get to know a little bit more about Jeremy and in that side of who you are. Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Jeremy Beeland. I'm out of New Hampshire, just an hour north of Boston. You know, I was a troubled youth as a kid, got arrested a lot, didn't even graduate

Starting point is 00:02:34 high school. All the things you don't want your child to be as a kid, I was, you know, around 13, 14 years old. My family ended up losing everything. We ended up losing everything in foreclosure and had a cause repossessed and everything. And i went into a world of trouble after that getting arrested drugs drinking then eventually somehow as i hit my 20s i found health and fitness and i kind of got into this life of like all right i want to self-improvement and get better and then i found myself with a good sales job in my early 20s i was originally high-rise window cleaning in boston uh Some of the buildings that you probably do a knocking on in the winter, not a lot of fun. About 20, 21 years old,

Starting point is 00:03:11 I found myself a sales job and did pretty well into my 20s. And then I got married, had two young kids. I was living in the traditional middle-class America house. It was like my dream come true, white picket fence type house. And I was doing great, making six figures. And I just had everything that I want. And then all of a sudden in 2009, 2010 came a lot of people, you know, maybe young on as far as your audience goes, but that was a time of the great recession. And it was dark during that time. And I went from having a really good six figure job to basically a year later out of work. And because I had no college education or even high school education, it wasn't just a housing crisis at that time. It was an employment crisis and I couldn't find work anywhere. And I was,

Starting point is 00:03:56 like you, DoorDoc, I was going through the old yellow pages trying to find a job every single day to provide for my family and I couldn't. And at this time, I was at face of foreclosure, I was facing bankruptcy. The mortgage companies were folding left and right at that time. And I actually started to learn about real estate investing at that time, started doing some training, started reading some books. We used to have to get CDs, audio CDs from the library back in the day before all these wonderful podcasts. But, you know, what happened was that I was able to realize that I'm going to be able to save my house if I get a real estate investor involved. So I ended up finding a real estate investor in my local market.

Starting point is 00:04:34 He came out and said, hey, Jeremy, you know what? We can help you in your situation here. I can short sale. I can work with this mortgage company, prevent you for foreclosure and bankruptcy, which was great because I wanted to go into the Air Force at the time. It was the only job opportunity that I had. But in order to go in there because I needed a top secret clearance, they wouldn't allow me to go in with a foreclosure or bankruptcy because they were afraid I was going to steal government secrets or something like that. So, you know, make a long story short, this guy came in, he short sealed my house. You house. He was able to give me money for a refrigerator and money for a pool and a shed out back. And at that time, there was money for food on the table for my kids.

Starting point is 00:05:13 It was Christmas gifts that we needed at that time. It was clothes to put on my children's back. They were only three and one at the time. I was in a huge depression. So he saved my ass. And then I went into basic training just before the age cut off at 34 years old, left my family for six months. I was in there with a bunch of 17 year old kids. My nickname was Gramps. And they're like getting yelled at being like dirtbag, get on pushups and

Starting point is 00:05:36 all this crazy stuff by 24 year old kids. But it was actually the best thing that could ever happen to me because I actually went in there and I rebuilt myself. I was selfishly had to go away to work on my confidence. And I came back out as a new man. I started building myself back up, got divorced. I was a divorced dad now with two kids, got myself back into making a six-figure sales job. And then I started to approach 40 years old. And then I started to see people in the 40s and 50s start to be like unemployable basically they were losing their jobs like you spend all this time going up the corporate ladder but the further and higher you go the more stable it comes and I just didn't want to be in a third situation in my life where I was losing it again and I was super scared so you know I started looking I want to get

Starting point is 00:06:20 into real estate investing and then I realized the best way for me to get in because I had no money because I didn't know you could use other people's money at that time. I just thought you had to have money, was to get into wholesaling. And I thought if I could get into wholesaling, at least I can learn to get great deals from the bottom level, direct to the seller, and then I could decide what I want to do for them, whether I want to wholesale them, flip them, keep them as rentals, et cetera. So at that time, I had a condo that I lived in for two years. I basically sold that town. It cost me $17,000 worth of equity.

Starting point is 00:06:51 It was the only money that I had. I paid $6,000 of credit card debt. I took $11,000. I took five of it, and I invested into a coaching program called Wholesaling Inc. with Tom Kroll. Taught me how to wholesale my first deal in 90 days. That $6,000 was my marketing budget, my contracts, my LLC. I basically started my business with 11 grand, moved my kids into this crappy two-bedroom apartment in a crappy part of town, and I was all in just as I was turning 40

Starting point is 00:07:15 years old. And then since then, I sit today on this podcast at 47, I've gone on to do over 400 off-market deals, over $8 million in gross profits, and I built three different markets to seven figures since then. Obviously, I've had a lot of help with a lot of great coaches along the way. It wasn't just that one coach, but as you said to start this, man, there's so many times I could have said, I don't have the money, I have kids, I don't have the bandwidth, whatever the excuses are, I just made it it wasn't easy but man I'm so thankful I did so that's my story yeah well so there's so many things that I want to be able to unpack here right all the way to the point of like you know you tend to repeat what your parents gave you right and you talking about how your parents and family were never

Starting point is 00:07:59 really good with money and this type of stuff and that trickles into you and then all of a sudden you find yourself going through a foreclosure scenario i want to talk about what a short sale is versus a foreclosure but really what i want to highlight and you should be very proud for yourself because it's something i find to be some of the main characteristics of the most successful people i've ever interviewed here on this podcast and or myself or otherwise is people make a decision that they're done and they want more and they decide what they want. And that's what you were able to do. And you decided who you needed to be to get it. Part of that was joining the, the, I think you said Navy or was it the air force?

Starting point is 00:08:33 Air force. Yeah. Air force. Yeah. Part of that was joining the air force. I needed to shape up. I needed to shape up, ship out, like put my shit together. So you decided who you needed to be. That is a hard one for a lot of people because they're not willing to make the sacrifice. You don't want to leave your children. You don't want to go do that. You don't want to be called Gramps and waking up crazy early and doing pushups when, you know, 19 year olds are basically, you know, punking you. Right. But you made that decision of what you wanted. Then you made the decision who you needed to be. And then you took massive action. Right. And in that, you know, well, I'm sorry, first, then you committed to it. The commitment was selling your home, paying a coach and going all

Starting point is 00:09:10 in, all in that's committed. Right. And then lastly, you took massive action and that's those three pillars, decide what you want and who you need to be, commit to it, and then take massive action. You embody that, right? And that is why I was super excited to have you on this podcast is because you yourself, whether you knew my principles or not, which you didn't, of course, but you literally did that. And it just goes to show those three. Now there's two other ones, which is being extremely uncomfortable, which you were, right? You moved your kids into a two bedroom house. It was not comfortable. You were financially like pushing yourself. And then lastly, not worrying about when the results were going to come, right? Not having a time result expectation that you put

Starting point is 00:09:48 on yourself. You just knew they were going to come and you embody all those principles. So I applaud you and you should be proud for yourself, but let's take a rewind really quick for all those that don't know what a short sale is besides, uh, or in comparison to a foreclosure, he didn't go through foreclosure. The bank took a short on the loan that he owed them. That's all. Someone bought it for less than he owned the bank, which kept a foreclosure off of his credit score, et cetera. So it really does help him.

Starting point is 00:10:17 I went through foreclosure. And so that was a very big bummer, right? I slept on a couch, went through foreclosure. Let's unpack a little bit of this and we'll get into the real estate stuff, I swear, but unpack a little bit of the cyclical inherited. Geez. Yeah. Part of like putting yourself into kind of fucked situations financially that kind of became adopted from you, from your parents right is is that part is very common i see all the time when talking to to people that ultimately end up making it you can go and say you put yourself in this bad scenario because that's what you were shown as a kid and you replicated it yeah to some extent you know obviously i didn't know what i didn't know so we follow our parents as you know basically how to

Starting point is 00:11:04 live life and what to do what not to do their situation was a little bit different you know they basically you know took he my step father at the time quit his job and decided to start a business and just just made a huge mistakes and didn't care to fix it you know my situation was like i was out of a job whether i wanted to be or not i was very successful but the whole economy changed in a year. I just put an addition on my house. And within a year and a half later, it was upside down $150,000 in equity. There was no vol modifications, no refinance options. It was nothing. I was screwed. And I couldn't find a job anywhere because I never graduated high school. I went to college and I went from making $100,000 plus a year to two years later in the

Starting point is 00:11:47 Air Force, making $32,000 a year. And that was the best I could find. You know, what I learned from that time was I was living to the edge of my means, right? So if I made $100,000 a year, I spent $100,000 a year. We, you know, we had a pool, we put all the dishes in, you know, we took all the equity out of our house, different things like that. I don't do that stuff anymore. That was the big mistake I made then. But what that time really taught me, more so for myself than as going through a childhood, is just if you think you're just safe working a job for somebody or if you think you're just safe just going to do what you got to do things could change and i you know and if i'm going down with the ship i want it to be like i your ship fighting in my ship right and i'm gonna put all in and just work my butt off and listen

Starting point is 00:12:35 you know it's still not easy after all these years i still have sleepless nights i still have cash flow problems occasionally and you know sometimes i have all these stresses of a team and all this other stuff that comes along with it, but I want to change for the world. I love it. And it's better than going into a place where you can be easily just say, Hey, we're downsizing. We're going to let you go. And then what? Right. And that's scary to me. Yeah. You give, you're making a decision to allow someone else to have the ultimate decision. Right. Right. And so you didn't want that. And like I said, if you're going to go down with a ship, you'd rather be your damn ship that you're going down with, right. Rather than someone else's. So let's get into the real estate spot because,

Starting point is 00:13:12 you know, this is what we're all here to talk about. You've done very well over the last seven years. You've done well, you know, 400, 400 and something deals in the last seven years. Correct. Yes, sir. Yeah. Where are you primarily finding those deals? What is your marketing or lead gen that you focus on? Yeah. So it's been in a few different markets. Our primary market right now is Southeast Florida and New Hampshire, Massachusetts. Those are the two markets we focus on now. It really depends. The marketing has changed a lot over the years. So we're constantly ebb and flowing. What we do marketing today may change in six months, 12 months, because we just check our KPIs.

Starting point is 00:13:51 But everything we do is based off off-market acquisition. So, you know, we do inbound and outbound lead generation to look for distressed properties, owners, or distressed people, distressed situations in an effort to acquire their properties at a deep discount exchange for you know and give them great value for whatever their problems are solution to their problem exchange for equity in their homes and then we decide once we get the product under contract what we want to do from it we have different exit strategies for that but you know we do things like direct mail we've done cold calling we do pay-per-click social social media marketing, like Facebook marketing. We're doing direct TV ads these days. We do pay leads. We've

Starting point is 00:14:32 done it all. We don't do texting anymore. That was great three years ago. We've abandoned it as of last year. It just wasn't working anymore with the regulations. We even do ringless voicemail, stuff like that. So we're always doing different things. Usually have a few different marketing channels going on. We try to just run it simple and lean. Yeah. So the thing that I echo and you and I are definitely cut from the same cloth, brother, is you need to have multiple marketing strategies. I don't care if they're paid or free. Right. And so what I mean by that is if you're doing direct mail or PPC, those are heavily paid, probably the most expensive in the space. Or if you are generating leads from other investors and bringing buyers and doing co-wholesalers, I don't care if you're calling agents and making offers on listing properties.

Starting point is 00:15:17 Those are essentially free models, right? And there's other free models, door knocking, et cetera. But I don't care how much money goes in, or how much time you're spending, you should always have two or three at a minimum two. Because people like you and people like I do. So if you're listening to this, and you're newer, then you need to wrap your head around that, right? I talk a lot about being dynamic or versatile. Like you can't just be a one trick pony. My story always talks about when I was buying homes only from the auction and the hedge funds came in well they were paying 110 cents on

Starting point is 00:15:50 something I could pull it pay 70 cents on I stopped buying homes I couldn't buy I couldn't compete right but that was my only way to get deals so I had to make a change right and if you make a change too late you can go under. And it almost happened to me three different times. I've made the same damn mistake. So now I know a lot better. Now I can help others listening to this episode and you can help others in your program, make sure that they're not just one trick ponies. You're not just doing just direct mail or you're not doing just whole door knocking or whatever. Make sure you're diverse and versatile in your marketing strategy. And you agree with this, right? This is just a straight lead game. The more leads and more opportunities you have, to your point, the more you can exit. You can wholesale it,

Starting point is 00:16:35 you can flip it, you can keep it as a rental. Yeah, for sure. And what I've learned over the years is what works for marketing in one market may actually don't even work in other markets. So you really have to just check in. We always have a few going on at a time, but we're constantly testing and retesting marketing channels, right? So if we just said, and this, we do this by KPI, key performance indicators, they basically guide us to what decisions we make from a marketing standpoint. You know, if I just said, Hey, well, we're doing texting because it's cheap. Well, you know, I got 11 to 1 return on that 2019. Now I'm lucky to get a 1 to 1 return, right?

Starting point is 00:17:08 So it doesn't work anymore. The KPIs tell you that. And, you know, sometimes mailing is great. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes cold call is great. Sometimes it isn't. So we're constantly testing and retesting. And, you know, so we're always just trying different things to just make sure we get

Starting point is 00:17:21 a good return in general. Marketing is, you know, it's finicky and it takes some time, but all the marketing channels work to your point, all grateful lead gen. I really think, you know, the key to success in this industry is your ability to take those leads that come in and your ability from a sales side to use it, convert them to revenue. You know, the, the, the way, the ability to take less reads leads to convert to deals is a lot better than somebody

Starting point is 00:17:47 who doesn't have experience and takes a lot of leads to convert to the same amount of deals. That nuance and that skill and that practice and that experience and that education, I think, is critical in this industry. And I think a lot of times it's overlooked, unfortunately. 100%. The things that you've said, right, you need to make sure you're adaptive in your marketing. Things change literally overnight, right? I mean, literally, everyone now sees what's happening with text messaging is essentially dead. I know it's not officially dead, but very, very, very difficult relative to what it was a year or two years ago. Everyone understands what direct mail was, you know, five, 10 years ago, I was getting

Starting point is 00:18:24 north of a 1% callback rate. Nowadays, we, I was getting north of a 1% callback rate. Nowadays, we're lucky to get a quarter of 1% callback rate, right? I mean, things just change. PPC marketing, Google PPC, you know, we would be able to get leads for like $50 a lead. Now it's like $250, $300, $400, $500 a lead. Things change. You have to change with it. A secret to my success in real estate over 16 years

Starting point is 00:18:47 is that exact principle being able to be uh being able to adapt being able to be fluid and move with the markets move with the changing times now ai is a big component we use rocketly.ai which obviously i have to introduce you to that if you haven't seen it yet but it is a massive game changer and this all happened since literally i can remember june of 2023 is when we built rocketly which was not rocketly at the time it was just internal you have to adapt you have to change covid made us change covid made us go 100 virtual you can't you can't expect to continue to win at a high level doing the same thing you've always done forever you might make some money especially if you're just doing the

Starting point is 00:19:31 right thing but you're not going to win at an extreme level if you're not adapting and changing that's what you're highlighting yeah 100 i mean i wish the market was always up and to the right but last year showed that that isn't the case and And talking about pivoting, 2023 was probably more of a pivot for most people than it was in 2020 with COVID. And yeah, I mean, we're constantly pivoting and adapting. It's been a change. And I think from my company's success, you know, obviously it's the biggest challenge, but it's also our biggest accomplishment to persevere through all this.

Starting point is 00:20:03 You know, I've seen a lot of people come and go already in my time of being in this business for seven years, but the ones that are able to survive, thrive, but you have to find ways to just constantly pivot through all the challenges. Like you said, it's not going to always just do the same thing and expect up to the right result. Well, once the interest rates go from two to seven, that changes everything. And people are locked in their homes and a lot of those people aren't selling anymore. That changes a lot of things. There's no doubt. The thing that you and I were kind of offline just chatting about is this idea of being a dynamic real estate investor, which is how I label it. But you

Starting point is 00:20:38 might say something different, but essentially it is polarizing to say, don't be a one trick pony and only wholesale. Don't do that. You know, wholesaling has a space to go get your first check, second check, fifth check. But if you want to grow something special, if you really want to be a big real estate investor making real money, you have to be dynamic. You have to be fixing, flipping. You have to be running the Burr model. You have to have long-term, short-term rentals. You have to be doing novations. It's all encompassing. Yeah. And we do all those things that, you know, just in the first couple of years when

Starting point is 00:21:09 I didn't know any better and we didn't really have much resources, we were living wholesale deal to wholesale deal, right? The money came in, we put it back into the business, try to grow the business and spend money on marketing. A lot of times too much money because I didn't know what I was doing. But, you know, as soon as I knew how to leverage other people's money and I didn't know what I was doing. But as soon as I knew how to leverage other people's money and it couldn't happen fast enough because I got sick of dealing with the cash buyers because I felt like they were always nickel and diming me and I was spending so much time and effort and money getting these great off-market deals. I felt like I was leaving a lot of money on the table. So one of the exit strategies we first did was we started listing all of our stuff on the MLS. And I went from a $20,000 average

Starting point is 00:21:46 disposition fee to $35,000 overnight just with the power of the MLS. It was a game changer in my business. And then we filed private money, which allowed us to now start taking down properties. We started wholetailing. We started flipping. It gave us opportunities to do boroughs. Novations, we do that a lot. We do a lot of direct to retail buyers. So a lot of our houses qualify for traditional financing. They're maybe a house that may be a little dirty, a little bit dated, but is move-in ready, but the sell is distressed. So we still get it at a discount, but for your average fix a flipper, there's not enough meat on the bone. But for a retail buyer, it works great. They get it five, 10% below market values to win for everybody. And we still make money doing it. So yeah, we have many,

Starting point is 00:22:28 many multiple lives and strategies. That's why for us, it's all about focusing on off-market acquisitions, acquiring any property we can, putting it under contract and then leveraging our knowledge to disavow out of it as profitably as possible. So for those that don't know what innovation is, it is essentially the way to wholesale a property on the MLS, right? So you contract a property, you get a couple of documents signed attorney, in fact, et cetera, to get the authority to put it on the MLS. You put it on the MLS for a flat fee, uh, usually not having any agent involved. And then it opens up your buyer pool, right? I mean, it quite literally is how all of the experts, myself, Jeremy, so many others

Starting point is 00:23:06 that have been around for any amount of time, it is how we maximize our dollar on every single lead possible because we have a buyer pool of the entire MLS, which is the biggest buyer pool there is, right? Absolutely. It's been a game changer in our industry and I rarely sell things off market anymore.

Starting point is 00:23:25 As much as the sellers will allow me to put their property on the MLS, as much as I'm going to do it. Do you have your pitch for Novation? What's your style of pitch? I mean, I've heard a handful. What do you say? what happens is if we have a property under contract that we're showing on the MLS, rather than doing a double close, we'll a lot of times have the seller sign a contract with us that puts seller A together with buyer B, and we end up being the third party and basically allowing us to put them into contracts. So we sign the rights over, but still for the fee. We still pay the commission as a closing cost. So it's kind of this workaround thing. I'm really not good at articulating it because it's a little complex.

Starting point is 00:24:12 It's not as hard as it sounds. My sales guys do a great job at navigating it. We don't do it a lot. We probably do it half dozen times a year. Yeah, it's a game changer for sure. What would you tell someone who's maybe a little gun shy about going after marketing? What would advice be to that person who doesn't know what marketing, doesn't know how much to spend, a little scared to kind of jump into the marketing game? Yeah, well, I mean, it really comes down to the individual situation.

Starting point is 00:24:41 So it's going to be two things. If you think of like a scale where you would weigh two things, you know, you're going to have one side that's going to be money. The other side is going to be time and effort. So the more money you spend on marketing, the less time and effort you have to be involved, right? But if you're not going to spend a lot of money, you're probably going to have to spend a lot more time and effort, meaning like cold calling door knockings, relatively cheap if you're doing it yourself, but it requires a lot of time and effort. PPC doesn't require a lot of time and effort other than just answering your phone, but it's very expensive, right?

Starting point is 00:25:12 So finding that combination that works best for you and individually is best. You know, it's really hard to be a professional off-market acquisition company, whether you want to buy properties to flip or to wholesale, whatever your exit strategy is, and not realize that marketing is going to be an expense. You don't have to spend a ton of money, but there is marketing involved. Just like with any business, we're a marketing business first. We're spending money to market to generate leads. Now, if you want to just go knock on doors, great. Well, I'm telling you, you're going to have to knock on a thousand doors before you get a deal. It's got to be costing nothing except for time, but a

Starting point is 00:25:47 thousand doors. You know, if you want to do cold calling, pull less than just start calling, that's great. Be a hustler. But reality is you're going to probably be calling two or three hours a day, six days a week, probably for six weeks straight before you get your first deal. And then you still have to keep calling after that to get your second deal. Most people never do it because they lose motivation and get burnout. So, you know, find a way to come up with some money. You have credit cards. You're going out drinking with the guys. You're going to sporting events. You're buying nice clothes. Think about things that you're spending money on that you don't necessarily have to spend money on. Find a way to save some of that. Find a way to borrow some money. Find a way to sell your house like I

Starting point is 00:26:24 did. Whatever it takes. If this is really the path you want to do, then you got to be all in. You're going to have to spend some money. I always spend $6,000 originally to start my business. And there was a couple of times I was like, holy shit, I'm going to run out of money here. And then the deal came in and then you live to the next deal. And then eventually you just start getting big, big momentum on your side and it starts taking off. And your first year will be the hottest year. You're going to be working and struggling to pull together every deal and every ounce of revenue you can, but you're going to build this awesome, great foundation that's going to change the rest of your life. But you're going to need some marketing. So don't be afraid. You got to just spend it.

Starting point is 00:27:01 It is what it is. Yeah, the willingness to sacrifice, whether it is, again, going out drinking with the boys, buying nice clothes, living like, you know, you are a shining example of someone who lived like most people are not willing to live.

Starting point is 00:27:16 Most people are not willing to sell their house to come up with 17 grand, right? Most people won't do those things. I've talked to thousands of entrepreneurs now since, you know, I started podcasting back in 2013, by the way. I just saw my first podcast was back in August of 2013.

Starting point is 00:27:32 Congratulations. That's impressive. Thank you. But after talking to thousands of entrepreneurs, thousands of real estate investors, it always goes back to the people who are willing to make the sacrifice, whatever that is. It could be financially. It could be time, time sacrifice. It could be personal sacrifices. I interviewed a guy by the name of Jason Wojo, incredible online marketer. He basically hasn't dated for five or six years. He has locked himself in his house and just perfected his

Starting point is 00:28:02 craft to the point of now, five or six years later, he's like, all right, I've hired the team. Finally, the things are going, I can exit and I can actually start dating. And he hired a dating coach. I just bring that example up because those that reach high highs, they make sacrifice. And those of you that want to be in real estate investing, those of you that want to be, you know, that you love the TV shows. I know Jeremy and I are both going to support you. We're both going to be here for you. Jeremy has a coaching program. And you know, make sure at the end of this, we'll tell you where to go find more about Jeremy. But we want you to get into this space because it is more fun to win with people than it is to do it alone. But also, we also know the life it can create.

Starting point is 00:28:47 And so we don't need everyone to make massive sacrifices, but you will need to make something, some level. Whether it's a financial cut-the-check sacrifice, whether it's a stop-going-out-with-the-boys sacrifice, whether it's a video game sacrifice, sell-a-home sacrifice, whatever. Understand, that is one of the biggest ingredients in success is willingness to do it. And here's what I would say to end this little rant. If you aren't willing to sacrifice, then just don't bitch. Don't complain. Keep your job. Live a mediocre life. Make a hundred grand or 200 grand a year, be okay with that. And don't complain. That's all I got to say to you. Josh, I couldn't agree more. And to your point, you know, I had to burn the candle

Starting point is 00:29:31 for the first three years of starting my business. And it was really hard, like seven days a week, you know, I was going, going, going. And, you know, there was a lot of compromise to sacrifice, but three years after that, I built a team. Now I have an abundance of time freedom. I can do whatever I want whenever I want. So ask yourself, are you willing to work really hard for three years to build a life where you can then come and go as much as you want the rest of your life? I think we all know the answer. The hard part though, Justin, and make one more point, just piggyback on your list, is I think about people like when they start the gym in January, right? They want

Starting point is 00:30:03 to lose weight or they're going to quit alcohol. Nobody ever makes it three weeks, four weeks, right? Then they all quit. So it's like a New Year's resolution. So if you want to change your life, you have to be that person that says, I'm going to make all the sacrifices and compromises I need to do to go to the gym for an entire year and I'm not going to quit. If you're going to be the person that just falls back into the same old routine and starts making excuses three, four weeks in, then you're going to probably do the same with this business. And again, like you said, don't bitch because that's the life you

Starting point is 00:30:30 choose. That's it. Real estate investing is an incredible art. It's an incredible way to make money. And then it's an incredible way to build wealth, right? I just bought, my buddy just made this hoodie. It says rich is not wealthy. And I love it. And I just wore it to boardroom because you and I, you know, obviously connected at boardroom, but it's true. You are not wealthy if you're rich. So I would choose, you know, wealthy over rich every day. But the reality is real estate is the only vertical I'm aware of that can create both simultaneously, right? You can get very rich in technology, right? You can go create a billion dollar technology company, but then you have to sell the company. You have to take your money. You have to go invest it into real estate, which we create, right? So, but we are in the

Starting point is 00:31:14 space of like, we can go make a lot of money and increase our wealth over time. Talk to me a little bit about your model. Do you have any formula of the wholesale, the flip to buying BRRRR? Like do you wholesale one, keep one as a rental, flip one, keep one as a rental? Do you have any type of formula to it? I don't have a formula to that extent. You know, as far as buying it whole, I want to buy it whole as many as I can. That's actually one of my personal goals this year. So, you know, as we've gone and scaled and built different markets and you know obviously

Starting point is 00:31:47 2023 we had some challenges as well you know it really just depends on like cash flow needs and everything else so you know a lot of times we just look at like all right what's coming in the pike do we we're already working on three or four projects do we want to take on more and suck the bandwidth out of the company know this wholesale this wholesale, you know, does this make a great buy and hold? Up here in Northeast, buy and hold is very, very expensive. When I started this journey, you know, you could find a nice off-market property

Starting point is 00:32:15 for like $50,000 a door. Now it's $200,000 a door. So, you know, it's very hard to cash flow up here, but the equity gain over years is very enticing to get into it. So, you know, it's very tough. You know, we just kind of monitor whatever the company needs are. And obviously I'd love to say that every month, like clockwork, you know, 10 deals comes in, but some months it's 10, some months it's zero, the next month is six. So you have to weave all

Starting point is 00:32:37 those things in. Unfortunately, money still goes out the door whether money comes in or not. So we just kind of weave all that. But personally, I'm trying to buy and hold as much as I can. That is my personal wealth. I allow my people on my team that opportunity too, because I want them to have success and wealth through what we're building together. But as far as the flip goes, we'll flip it if we think we can make good money. If we think we can make a little bit less and wholesale it or wholesale it and not have to put in all that effort, then we'll take that approach as well. So we try to take the easier road to revenue, not necessarily the harder one. Do you focus on any type of price points at all? With regards to what?

Starting point is 00:33:21 You know, so like the reason why it's very simple for me is I stick to under $300,000 price point of homes. I stick to single family homes. So it's very easy for me to wholesale flip or keep them as rentals. They fit all. It's just math at that point. At what buy price and what rent ratio does it become a better BRRRR? Then it becomes a flip. At what point does it become a better wholesale? Then it becomes a better flipper rental? So for me, it's very simple because I only target a certain amount of price points, and then I can just run the math backwards. Yeah, for sure. That makes perfect sense.

Starting point is 00:33:53 So in New Hampshire, the average price point is $400,000. Massachusetts, you're approaching $600,000. So single-family boroughs up here, they just don't exist. There's no way. We have some outlying areas that you can get it cheap enough, but it's very rare. It's even really difficult to do it on a two family. You really need to have a three family up.

Starting point is 00:34:12 So we don't market a lot to multifamilies. We do to smaller multifamilies. And if those opportunities come, we take advantage of them. But for the most part, you know, we focus just mostly on single, smaller multifamilies and those price points that you say. A lot of first-time home buyers. So really the wholesale just comes down to if we can't get access to the MLS, the seller just doesn't want us to promote it on the MLS for whatever reason, then we'll just wholesale out of that. We put it on the market and we take the highest and best offer we can get.

Starting point is 00:34:43 Yep. I love it. And I know you coach a bunch of other people. What's kind of your mission when you bring in students into your REI freedom? What are you kind of focusing on for them? Yeah. Thanks for asking. You know, we're really focused on the sales skills of working direct to sellers. So as we talked about earlier in this podcast, you know, there's a lot of marketing channels

Starting point is 00:35:02 that generate leads. And obviously some are better than others. But your skill set, your ability to take those leads and convert them to deals and revenue is really the area that you need to get really good at in this business. So you could be a new person just starting out, it may take you 60 leads to get one deal. But with some good sales training and some good coaching on that side, you can now take 25 to 30 leads to get one deal. And, you know, you learn the skill set to get these deals at a lower price point, buy better with those sales skills. Also exit out of them for a higher amount.

Starting point is 00:35:40 So you're learning how to buy more, buy cheaper, sell higher, and also get more deals with the same amount of money that you're spending on lead gen. So refocus on those sales skills because, listen, you're dealing with people. You're dealing with distressed sellers, habitual procrastinators. They tend to ghost you. Life is falling down around them. They crawl under rocks. They want help, but they don't accept it. There's a lot of nuances that come along with that.

Starting point is 00:36:05 And you're not just dealing with business-to-business type sales. These are people that are emotional or rational. And it requires a lot of skill and nuances to successfully handle their emotions, handle their objections, and successfully convert deals. So where can everyone go find out more about Jeremy and then REI Freedom? Yeah, yeah, Facebook. That's the best way to go. Just go join our Facebook REI Freedom group. It's a private group. Me and Dan Tolbeak, who's a great coach himself, we provide a lot of great coaching in there for free. We just want to provide a lot of value. As you said, you know, it's a lot funner when you can do it together. You heard my story. I've been very blessed. I live a blessed life of freedom.

Starting point is 00:36:46 That's why we call it REI Freedom because anybody can build a life of freedom however they want through the power of real estate investing. It could be wholesaling. It could be flipping. It could be burying. It could be syndication. I don't care what you want to do. Real estate allows you this great opportunity to build a life for your dreams. So come in REI Freedom Facebook group or reifreedom.com on the web either way it works and I appreciate you mentioning that thank you of course bro I appreciate you spending some time here at the Science of Flipping brother appreciate you keep affecting lives keep crushing it you're absolute rock star see you all on the next episode Science Flipping peace

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The Science of Flipping - Starting Over with Real Estate at 40 Years Old | Jeremy Beland

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