The Science of Flipping - The Bitcoin + Real Estate Hybrid That's Destroying REITs | Grant Cardone

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

In this episode, I sit down for the third time with the legendary Grant Cardone — real estate mogul, founder of Cardone Capital, and creator of the 10X movement — and this one is the most raw and strategic conversation we've ever had. Grant breaks down his brand-new Real Estate + Bitcoin hybrid fund model, explaining exactly why he's fusing institutional-quality multifamily properties with Bitcoin on the same balance sheet, and why REITs — despite managing hundreds of billions — simply cannot replicate what he's doing. We also get into the origin story of the 10X Growth Conference, why he's shutting it down and pivoting to a wealth management model to compete with Charles Schwab and Merrill Lynch, how his Cardone Foundation is giving inner-city kids access to entrepreneurial education, and why he believes most people should never flip homes. Grant also opens up about the personal and legal challenges that come with scaling at his level, how partnerships protect you, and what the coming "tidal wave" of distressed real estate will mean for investors who are positioned and patient. GRANT CARDONE Grant Cardone is the CEO of Cardone Capital and Cardone Training Technologies, Inc., owning and operating over seven privately held companies. Cardone Capital is a private equity real estate firm managing a multifamily portfolio worth over $5 billion. Under his leadership, the firm has acquired a diversified portfolio comprising 14,600 multifamily units and 500,000 square feet of commercial office space across high-growth U.S. markets, raising more than $1.65 billion in equity from nearly 20,000 accredited and non-accredited investors, while distributing over $400 million in returns with zero investor principal losses. Grant is a New York Times bestselling author, international speaker, and is considered one of the top sales training and social media experts in the world, with over 15 million followers, fans, and connections across his platforms. He is also the founder of the 10X Movement and creator of Cardone University, and in 2024 he pioneered a first-of-its-kind real estate and Bitcoin hybrid investment fund model through Cardone Capital SOCIAL LINKS Platform Handle / Link Website grantcardone.com Instagram @grantcardone X / Twitter @GrantCardone LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/grantcardone ️ YouTube youtube.com/@GrantCardone About Justin: Justin Colby is the host of The Entrepreneur DNA and The M.O.R.E Show podcasts and a best-selling author. He is a serial entrepreneur and a seasoned real estate investor with over 20 years of experience. Driven by a passion to help entrepreneurs thrive, Justin created the Entrepreneur DNA community to support business owners in building wealth, systems, and long-term freedom. Through his podcasts, books, education platforms, and hands-on mentorship, he continues to help entrepreneurs scale with clarity and confidence. Connect with Justin: Instagram: @thejustincolby YouTube: Justin Colby TikTok: @justincolbytsof  LinkedIn: Justin Colby Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're putting a real asset that's very well understood by the world. Real estate. Cash flows, great location of real estate. And then we combine the Bitcoin and put the two together. They're fused together literally like they're not getting disconnected. Well, Grant, welcome to The Moore Show. This is great. It's called The Moore Show.

The Moore Show, yeah. Dude, I love the word. Maximizing opportunities in real estate. I love it. So we all know there's a lot of opportunities. And you are the king right now of the apartments. And I want to give you your flowers out of the gate. I told you this two weeks ago.

one year ago, January 2025, I was in the same office. We were sitting just like this. And you said, Justin, after 20 years of doing this flipping bullshit, you got to stop, you got to get bigger, you got to go bitter. And you said, you know how to raise capital. Don't go bitter. Go bigger. Go bigger. Go bigger.

And I wasn't ready to hear the message yet. Yeah. But now today, it is the right message. That is all I do is apartments, 300 doors. That's fantastic. You challenged me to get 3,000 doors in 36 months. And I said yes, because we were live on the episodes. So you get your flowers.

You were right the whole time. Yeah, thank you. And more people need to listen to you. And we talked about that at your conference two weeks ago. Yeah. Well, thank you. So thank you. And welcome back.

And as you know, my partner. But let's jump right into the attention in media since this is where we started. Yeah. You are loud and for good purpose. But you get a lot of hate, brother. You get a lot of hate. How much of that hate is justified? or it's just all they're trying to get clickbaity on it?

Well, I mean, look, clearly I'm not, I'm not the kind of person that's going to hold other people responsible for my problems. I am ultimately the creator of everything that happens to me in my life. I assume that position when I was 25 years old coming out of a treatment center and I have not like, anything that happens, I'm like, you're the, you're the reason first. Like, no matter how bad it is or how unfair or how unjust. Now, that being said, I mean, I'm the creator, right? I'm the creator in my world, in my little world. I don't mean I'm the creator, but see, I have to correct that. Otherwise, somebody's going to be like, he thinks he's God.

Right. Right. So they take what you say, what I see from the outside, they spin what you say the best they can. Yeah. And it's cool. That's fine. You know, I would rather that than not have any attention. You've always said it.

Because I remember when I was 25 and I was, well, really when I was 29, when I went out on my own and I was starting my own business, dude, I couldn't get anybody to open the door. I couldn't get them to listen to me. They wouldn't pick up the phone. You know, now I can call a guy. Same guy that I called on 40 years ago wouldn't see me. His dad wouldn't see me. Now I can call him and he could be anywhere in the world and he's going to pick up the phone and say, what you got?

Yeah. It's just, you know, because you've got to go out and prove yourself. Yeah. So I would rather have the attention. Now, some of this stuff, some of these, there's three or four clickbait channels. That is what they do. That is the product. Before we dive in, I want to talk to you about L of S Capital.

If you're looking to build passive income through multifamily real estate, L of S. gives you access to exclusive apartment investments that aren't available to the public. If you want to diversify beyond stocks and create real cash flow, visit l of scapital.com. To learn more and to get on the investor list, I personally invest with L of S Capital, and they have been incredible to work with. Their team is top notch. I get passive cash flow distributions to my bank account every month, and I'm always in the loop with what's happening with the apartments I'm invested in.

The best thing is I don't have to worry about managing tenants or dealing with repairs. The team of L of S handles absolutely everything, and my income is 100% passive. And that's just the way I like it. So if you want to build wealth and passive income without all the work and additional risk, visit LVS.com. Now, let's get to the show. And when they're done with me, they'll go to you when you get big enough and they'll go to Kevin Hart. They'll go to whoever, Dana White, they're going to whoever's in the news, they're going to drag them. Yeah.

And that's their business. Their business model is to drag clickbait, tarnish, damage, some piece I heard, I saw, they're saying, hiding under this premise. Most of those people I don't go after because they don't have anything to get. My mom taught me, it's like, you can't get blood from a rock. Rock. So some of those guys, if I went after them hard, like I've gone after some people. Very hard, but they all have one thing in common.

They have something to get. There was something inside that rock. That's it. So I was able to extract because what you don't want to do is, Some of these guys, you don't want, like, I'll never even use their name because that's what they want me to do. Yep. Of course. I would never give them attention because that's what they want.

There's nothing to get, so I wouldn't sue them, even though they have defamed. They have damage to the brand. They have cost me money. And I can prove it. But there's nothing to get anyway. Sure. So why do it? That's why I selectively target two or three people where I know I can extract tremendous amounts of financial damage to them.

And more importantly than the money. money when it headlines it says this was settled, those other guys are watching this saying, you know what, maybe we just go pick on somebody else. Yeah. And so that was very intentional. You walked in here privately and we were discussing no one ever knows how much you got to go through. And I think that's an important thing to highlight. I think a lot of people want to get bigger. Like you literally have a motto, 10x everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can that be damaging at times? You're built different, brother. Like we talked about this two weeks ago. You're like, I'm built different. I'll go.

after someone's head. Not everyone can do that. Yeah. But is 10x a good saying and can be motivational? Is there a downside to go on 10x? Sure, there is. Dude, there's a downside to everything. Right. There's there's there. Everything's got its pluses and minuses and and, uh, the 10x thing can be like, you know, it's for obsessive, compulsive, wacko job people. Like it is designed to attract the dreamer, the big visionary, the guy that's not satisfied. Yeah. Now, you know, it turns people off because The first thing that happens, like when I told you, look, you need to go big, bro. Leave these flips alone. These deals with no money down.

And look, you can do it. You can do it. But the wholesaling, picking up $30,000. Well, if you're broke, dude, $30,000 is all the money in the world. So the moment I, let's say a guy went out and he got a deal with no money down and he's going to flip it for $30. And then he sees my YouTube saying, bro, what are you doing? 30 grand is no money. Yeah.

Well, he's going to immediately get hurt. Yeah. because he's got this whole, all this energy around this mission. And here I pop in and say, bro, and then I'm walking off my plane doing it too, by the way. This is, looking obnoxious. That all triggers in people. There's no doubt. They get triggered.

Or he's going to flip the switch. Or he's going to flip the switch. Now, he's not going to flip the switch on his way to that deal if this is his first 30 because, again, 30 looks like all the money in the universe to him. And what's going to happen is he's going to do it once. He's going to do it twice. He's going to do it three times. He's going to have me in the back of his head saying, bro, he's going to get caught on the fourth one.

He's going to lose all the money on the fourth one that he made on the first three. He owes the U.S. government a bunch of money in taxes. And now he's going to be like, oh, I know what Grant Cardone was saying. Now he doesn't hate me anymore. But you see, he didn't like the way it came off. I probably said it wrong, by the way. Brother, I'm just going to...

It's not like I take any time to think about what I'm saying. I'll say it like this. You were talking about a newbie. Yeah. In 2024, I had 70s. 17 years of flipping homes. Wow. I got hit with a rock, literally decapped like a $3 million.

Oh, fuck. Uh-huh. Then you say what you said to me in the studio. And it took that long for me to wrap my head around like, Grant's 100% right. Yeah. I did all this for 17 years. And overnight, it goes, boom, it can all go away.

It's gone. And I want everyone listening, watching this, listen to Grant and what he's saying and preaching because it's only right. Yeah. You've just done it longer than everyone else. and maybe not even longer because you've had a great 15 year rung, but you learned a lot in 15 years. Yeah, well, you know the 15.

Yeah. I know 40. That's right. So I know almost three times the amount of time you know. That's right. See, what that guy should have done that made that 30 grand on that wholesale deal is he should have paid you 30 grand to teach him what the fuck to do so he can stop wholesaling. Well, he didn't have the 30.

He didn't have 30 to pay me. Yeah. And I'm not going to do it for nothing. Exactly. You know, so. But he could have got to your events. All he had to do is listen to. the damn YouTube, bro, because I got, there's, I don't know, 3,000 videos sitting up there

just telling people how to chop up the game. Yeah. But then the clickbaders come in and say, or the skeptical, the viewer. Now, why? If this guy's got $5 billion for the real estate, why is he doing this? Totally legitimate question, by the way. We're talking about how the haters are created, right? You know, because we're all taught, hey, look, there's no such thing as a, you know,

sure thing. And if it's too good to be true, then it's probably not true. and there are scammers, dude. Yeah. You know, there's grifters, scammers. On a day-to-day basis, I don't know how many times I'm called a grifter. Grifter, scammer, fraud. I'm like, oh, oh.

Like on what basis, though? I have a thousand employees. I mean, I don't know how many grifters have a thousand employees. Right, no, right. You do 150 events a year. Yeah. With hundreds and hundreds of people in the room. These are well-to-do people in most cases.

And we mix it up with people that aren't well-to-do. So the people in the back of the room have access to the people in the front of room. Like, I'm literally just trying to help people. So this idea that, okay, why would a guy with $5 billion of real estate and all these other companies that are working well, why would he take the time to go online and do it for free? You know, because I think it's the right thing to do. And it helps me. Every time I talk about what I'm doing, it makes me a little better at what I'm doing. I mean, I'm a teacher at heart.

I'm really, I'm probably, today I'm probably driven by the fact. that I didn't have a dad teaching me how to hunt, fish, boat. Dude, I was so clumsy at 12 years old. I was like, okay, I need a dad, dude. I don't know. I took a starter out of a car, a 1974 Maverick, and it took me four days. And I never got the starter back in it. Yeah.

So I had to call somebody in to fix it. A starter should take 20 minutes. Yeah. So, you know, I didn't have that. So maybe today what I'm just doing is this, I think Tony Robbins would probably say that I have some, I love. listen to the Harmosey Robbins interview, and he suggests that Harmosey's somehow broken. So maybe I'm just this broken, wounded, vulnerable man, you know, that didn't have a dad and wants to

help other people, you know, skip something bad. Well, I think you've made enough money now. The purpose is bigger. I mean, I've heard you say, and I think you've said it a different way, but it's like, you've got to have a bigger purpose than to just go make money to make money because then go be a salesman. Just go make a million dollars a year every single year. So real estate's not the hustle.

I've heard you say that a lot recently. A lot of people have actually. It kind of is at the level I'm at right now. Well, you're at a huge level. But if someone wants to go make a million dollars a year, you're going to go say, what's your answer? If someone right now says, Grant, I want to go make $100 income every year,

100 grand or a million dollar year, somewhere in between. Yeah, I mean, I'd go do a sales job. I wouldn't go do real estate. Right. You know, unless you could figure out to deal with no money down and 32 units and raise the rents $200 bucks. But, yeah, I'm with you.

I would go, I probably, wouldn't even sell anything. I would just go hustle a street corner as a panhandle. That's what I would do. Like I dropped the product. Yeah. I want to get back to, because I know we're going to go deep on real estate. I want to get back to the giver thing because I was at your last event sitting there front row and a lady in the audience at the end. Remember a lady that her daughter was going through something? Her daughter was going through something needed a surgery. Oh yeah. You brought that lady up on stage and raised the $8,000 she needed about two minutes from just people in the audience. You're a massive giver. I've seen you do this over and over and over.

But I really, one of the things on my list to talk about to you today was the foundation. Yeah. Like, what's your reason for starting the foundation? What's the foundation doing now? Justin and I sign up, we're going on the cruise with you. Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. And like, we have 110 kids, 108 kids over next door right now.

Amazing. Four buses came in with kids today. That's what I'm talking about. These kids don't look like you guys. They're from inner cities. They don't, they've never been to an office building. They've never met business people. You know, the closest they get to success.

is seeing Drake or, you know, Little Wayne or Kevin Hart. And that ain't going to get him where they do. They have a zero chance. Like the chance of being a businessman or a businesswoman or an AI consultant or thousands of X is better than being a rapper, a ballplayer, winning a lottery. You're not going to inherit anything. Your parents don't have anything. So, you know, we're helping those kids, man. We help a lot of kids.

We do probably, I don't know, how many events are. we do a year over there for the kids. You guys know? 50, 40, 40 events? It's a lot. We stop everything we're doing here. We spend two hours with the kids, maybe three hours. They do pitchoffs over there.

Yeah. So, and I'm trying to use my social presence and the phone, you know, not the schools. Like we started out in the beginning, raising money to get into the schools. It's almost impossible. And then what we did was we said, no, let's just use, they have phones. Let's just use YouTube and TikTok and go, please. put out information on finance, money, sales, marketing, cut it back. So I'm not talking to an adult.

Cut it back to a kid can listen to it. We created the 10X kids book. You guys got the kids book? Can somebody grab that? How to get super rich for kids. You know, they like that show. Like, who doesn't want to be rich? And nobody's talking to them about this stuff.

Yeah. That's the sad thing. They're not going to learn it in school. Well, no, what they're doing is to Sanis is going to say, we need to have programs in place that teach financial literacy. receipt. Yeah. Yeah. Kids don't want to, you don't even, they don't want to learn like that. Just show me how to get the bag. Yeah. Show me how to get some money for mom. Okay. Then show me what do I do with the money once I get it. Like you can't talk to them about and use big terms. Right. You know, so anyway, that's what we're doing.

We're trying, we take my content and then we just start cutting it back to where I can communicate it to my kids. Then what we're trying to do with the money is we take my content, all my sales marketing, all the Cardone University content, sales, marketing, finance, money, motivation, leadership, people, communication skills. And we're getting kids to deliver that content. So a kid sees a kid. Yeah. Nice. Rather than a kid seeing a, you know, 47-year-old man.

That's right. That's right. The thing that I think is so cool to Adam's point is now you're in a space of teaching. You're in a space of volunteering and everything you're doing at the foundation. How do you do so much good and then be able to. kind of go through the challenges you go through. What is the push that you have at your face? You easily could be done.

You can retire, be on your vacations that you love. You can easily do that. Yeah. Why deal with the damage and the hurdles and the challenges and the lawsuits and the thing. Why do that? Good question, dude. He's a builder, though. Once you're a builder, you never want to stop building because what else you can do?

Yeah, my wife called me this morning. She says, there's a thing in July. It's in Italy. I said, I know about it already. I already heard about the thing in July. don't want to do it. Oh, my God, it's going to be some great people there. And I mean, I love all the people that are going to be going there. I'm like, I would rather just be here and do my thing. Now, if I went and did that thing, I'd probably be, I'd be like, oh, I'm so glad we came to this.

Yeah. But I don't know, man, it's a problem. It's a pain point, you know, like, why am I doing this? I'm at a place in my life where I really have to figure that out. Like, well, why am I doing this, you know? Because at some point, you get, you know, you keep doing the same thing over and over again. And you're like, okay, I need a bigger something. And the other, the super rich kit, it's in, there's another one for, for the kids. See, this is our 10x kids. That's amazing. It's got, you know, it's got, it's easy, like.

Easy to digest, read, understand. Yeah. My daughter's eight, so I will be taking that home to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So winning requires you to act big. These kids aren't thinking big.

They're going to be shoved into another school just like we were. Yeah. No, no. Don't think big yet. You need to go to school. You need to sit there. You need to get good grades. You need to learn your shit.

Do your test. Think small. Think small. But the difference is today, man, these kids today are, they have access that we didn't have. I didn't see Mr. Beast making billions of dollars. That's right. Or the, thank you. See, this is another version of it, right?

So we just got to try a bunch of stuff to see what gets these kids. Yeah. I don't know what's going to get them. You know, this says there are many ways to reach them. million dollars. Maybe you can even sell 5,000 toys at 200 each. There you got. There you go. So, you know, dude, if I would have had this stuff when I was eight, I would have been eating this. It didn't exist, though. Well, no. Couldn't get access. Now we get access to everything. Right. And then you flip to the AI thing, the kid's going to go on AI and do it, but it's not going to look like this.

We're a long way from that. But anyway, yeah, I like helping people do. Like, at the end of the day, nobody's going to remember my stuff. You've made an imprint, bro. Like, you know, I know you're humble. and appreciate it. But like, I literally tell my wife and I tell I'm like, Grant's going live again for four hours on a fucking Saturday. So what? I'm like, I think this Sunday, I think this Sunday did two days in a row. I'm like, oh my God. Like this guy does not slow down. Do you do you have any thought in your mind? That's cool, though. That you, that you see, I don't think about it helping people like that. Yeah. It's huge. You remind me of a guy that walked up to me once. He's a car dealer. And I used to, I needed him to get where. 20 years ago, I needed his check. Sure. And then 20 years later, I see him and he's like, bro, where do you get your gas from? Yeah.

I see what do you mean? He's like, your gas tank is so, because he watched my 40 years. You've watched 15. He watched 40. He watched, when I was knocking on his door selling him a $300 set of videos. And he's like, your gas tank, bro, is filled with something different. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, dude.

Yeah. I don't know. I, you know, I get in here and I start teaching about, you know, I'm like, there's going to be 60 minutes. next thing, you know, I'm here four hours. It seems like your gas tank is more full, is getting more full. Because I come to your events. I watch your things on Saturdays and Sundays sometimes.

You're freaking on fire, bro. Yeah. Like, you're not tired. You don't look tired anyway. Yeah, yeah. Well, you can't look tired. But you're full of freaking energy. Yeah.

It's all that. That coffee juice. I want to talk about GrowthCon for a minute. Because it's one of the things that most people know you for over the last decade, 12 years, whatever it was. Yeah. What was your first idea behind GrowthCon? How did it come about?

Yeah. So we started getting some action on 10X. I wrote the 10X rule, finished it, told my wife, eh, you know, that really, that was my response to that book. Okay. Little did you know. Isn't it your biggest seller? Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think it is.

Yeah, it is. And I'm like, eh, you know, and she's like, and then that thing ripped. It just took off. Okay. People started 10x. The next thing I know, we did, I said, hey, we should do like a 10X event. And it was in Orlando, Florida. Nobody even knows this happened.

There was two events nobody really even knows. So what year was this? This is 14 or 15. And there's 40 people there. Orlando brought in all these third-tier speakers. You know, we had a little stage, no lights, no music, nothing, dude. And I had been doing events like that for car dealers for years. Yeah.

Some of it is I get tired of doing the same thing, right? And I'd always, look, I've always, I love comedians and I love big shows, right? So I'm like, I want to do a big show, dude. So we went and did one in Cabo. Was it Cabo or Cancun? Maybe Cancun. And there was maybe 30 people at that one. Cheesy little purple lights.

Was it named GrowthCon? It was called, no, it was called Ten. X. 10X. Okay. We'll get you, I'll get you to B-roll to both of them. Okay. There was maybe 40 or 50 people at that.

You'll have five more employees. That happens. And there was Bobby AWad there. Do you guys know Bobby? Bobby A-Wad. I don't. Yeah, Bobby's going to be famous this year. She's up for 19 felony counts.

Wow. For stealing $2.6 million for my wife. My God. In Las Vegas, Las Vegas district court. Oh, me. Okay. Grand jury just approved. So Bobby went there. She had 10x put on her damn wrist. I'm like, shit, dude. People are going to start 10x in the says, we got something. Yeah.

This is early, early 10x. We don't know about the growth conference. She had nothing. So anyway, I see this chick. She's got 10x on her damn thing. People start 10x in. And then somebody, one day, somebody threw the 10x. I don't know where that even came from. And the next thing you know, people started doing that. I'm like, this 10X thing's going to, it's going to rock. So we said, let's do an event. Actually, what happened was this is 2000 Diplomat Hotel. This was probably 2000, maybe 16. My staff, it was December, and my staff was complaining about having too much to do.

And I'm like, oh, you guys have too much to do? It's on an event. Blah, blah, blah, Christmas time, da, da. And by this time, I'd been tired of getting my ass whipped by Santa Claus every Christmas. So I said, hey, fuck you guys. we're doing an event February 15th. I made up to date.

Diplomat Hotel. I just booked it. I didn't. Three days, we have 1,000 seats to sell. Okay? And it's going to be called the 10x conference.

Completely made all this shit up. Out of being frustrated with my guys that were complaining about doing too much, because I have this little thing. If you've got too much going on, just give the guy something else. He'll immediately solve all his problem. And so I said, guys, we're doing a 10X growth conference.

I just booked the diplomat. There's a thousand seats. We had to sell 1,000 seats at that time. It was end of January. We had like 22 days. 22 days from right now, create a landing page. Give me a website. Put the ticket prices up.

The tickets are going to be due to that. We just made it up. We sold 2,200 tickets. Damn. 88 days. Savage. Damn. It was the most profitable event we had ever done.

This pre-CO-it. Yeah. And I was like, oh, my God, dude. We didn't have a speaker list, didn't have a roster, didn't announce it. We might have announced some people at that one. We figured out how to turn this thing around in 88 days, and then we were off to the races. That's awesome. That's how it all started.

We would do 10 of those, yeah. Yeah, what I love about the event was you wouldn't announce the speakers. Yeah. So nobody in the audience knew who was coming out next. Yeah, yeah. And that was part of the-court. Because we couldn't get the speakers, bro. So the way that came about is, you know, Jared's like, we need.

We need something to advertise. I said advertise the 10X growth conference, dude, and how great it's going to be. And say, we're not going to tell you who's going to speak because we don't have anybody. Just lean into the thing that's going on. Yeah. We're not going to tell you who's going to be there. And then I would start exaggerating this over the years to say, okay, now we're not going to tell them the date of the event. Yeah.

Let's see how many tickets we can sell without a date, without a location, and without a speaker listening. Yeah. So I was at the last one in Las Vegas about a year or so ago. and everybody in the crowd is speculating who's coming out next. It worked. People, Elon Musk was the big one. Is Trump coming out? Like it was on and on.

And so you get the audience, the 7,500 people in here, you get them guessing and betting each other like what's going on. And it was just, it was pretty epic. Look, there was some reasons for doing that stuff. One, it was to solve a problem. I believed that we were giving people too much information. And me and Jared have this argument constantly. He would read the owner's manual. And I'll never read it.

Right. I'm more likely to. buy a new car, reach into the glove box, grab the owner's manual, throw it out of the window. Because I'm never looking at it. I have zero answers. I'm not saying he's going to read the whole thing, but he needs a bunch of data to make that decision. I don't. I don't know that that's right or wrong. It doesn't matter. It's probably one-third, one-third, one-third. I need no information. I need all the information. I need all the information and something in between, right? But I wanted to prove that people

actually didn't need information. Now, I know if I got a room of 12,000 people, 3,000 of them need more information. Three-thous are going to wait until the last two days to buy it. There's going to be probably three to five thousand people that once the event's over, they're going to be like, when's the event? I want to buy a ticket. I'm like, we just did the event last weekend. Oh, you didn't tell me. I sent you 400 million emails.

So anyway, we just started playing with that. I said, guys, we're not going to advertise the location. I want to see how many seats we can sell without a location, even though we had a location. The Marlin Stadium that we did in 2019, we had, there was 34,000 seats. I said, guys, we're going to sell one-third of the tickets without a location and without a date. And we did. I'm not telling you where it is. I'm not telling you when it is.

If you're committed, if you love me, if you support me, if you believe I over deliver. And I'm not telling you who's coming either. Yep. And then not telling you who's coming became a thing. It became a thing. Out of every guess you've had because you've had the biggest people on the planet, who was your favorite to interview on stage. My favorite to interview.

I mean, God, dang. Probably, I mean, the most intense interview was definitely. Tom Brady. Okay. The intensity. Really? Oh my God, dude. Like, he's just...

Like the whole time. Yeah. He was locked in on me. Yeah. There would only be one other person that I would probably have that experience with on the planet. Yeah. But Tom was locked. The Donald Trump interview was, you know, great.

Yeah, price. Who do you think over delivered? Huh? Who do you think over delivered? Who did you interview? You're like, all right, we're going to interview. And then you're like, fuck, that was great. I mean, now, now, you're running all these things like, like,

I know who I love that. Like Mark Wahlberg, I hated that interview. Okay. He never got comfortable, dude. I don't know what the guy, why the guy felt bad or he felt bad about being there or didn't want to be there or whatever. He'd get into it and then pull out of it. I don't know what the deal was. You know who I thought was a lot of fun?

Jimmy John. Oh, fantastic. It was a freaking awesome. Fantastic. Great story. Oh, my God. Yeah. Dana White.

Tillman Fertita was great. Dana called and said, hey, man, I heard you have been in town. Can I show up? Oh, no shit. And that's how me and him got introduced. Dude, that was great. Here's the big question. Yeah.

Can we get one more growth con? One more. No, we're not going to do it. One more. The next one we do will be free to our investors. Okay. There'll probably be a fee to get in, but it'll be more like a Warren Buffett, investors conference.

That's the goal. I love it. Investors only, investors and partners all. Let me ask a question. I think the people would want to know. But no, can I just go back on the 10x growth conference? So, see, see, that thing was doing great. And then other people started saying, oh, I'm going to do.

a conference and, you know, look, I've been to these other people's conferences. I've been to, like, whoever they were. I'm just going to leave the names out so nobody feels like I'm dragging people. I'd walk in the room, the room's cold, big convention center, there's seats forever. I'm like, dude, I don't want to do that. I don't want to feel like I'm being educated. I wanted to feel like I was being entertained. And, hey, by the way, I walked out with some education. So we spent a lot of money on lights, on production, on like, we went crazy, dude. We were spending 10 million. I was going to ask you what your AV bill was at that last Las Vegas one because it was insane.

It was insane. It was the most insane stage set up, AV setup I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, it was, it was. It was epic. It was epic. Yeah, we probably spent 10 million there, 10 or 12 million. It showed. Not just on AV, but I wanted people to walk in and say, oh my God, I'm doing things wrong in my life.

This is the right level to do things. So it's probably the product. That conference was probably the, not the first two that we did. Yeah. But by the time we got to 2000. 16, 17, those events were like just profitable always, all right? They were all. We made money.

We made money before the event. Yeah. Before the 10 minutes spent, you were already. Before, when the doors opened, we were already profitable on nine out of those 10 events. That's amazing. There was one that we weren't. Those speakers, do you have to pay some of them to show? Oh, yeah, 100%.

Yeah. That's part of us. Most of them you had to pay. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so, but you see, not announcing people like Trump. Trump's like, can I see the promotional material? I said, dude, nobody knows you're coming in.

He's like, why would you do that? He's like, you'd sell more tickets and get a higher price. He was fascinated about this marketing concept. I said, no, no, no, sir. I appreciate what you're saying, but you are a value ad. Yeah. He's like, what? Trump's never been called a value ad.

You're a value ad. You're a shock. He's like, where am I on your speaker list? I said, he's like, I'm the closure, right? I said, no, sir, you're the opener. And he's like, why would you open with me? I said because I'm going to shock the fucking world with you. Bam.

Okay. Have you gotten pretty close to all? President Trump? President Trump. You know, he knows who I am. Of course. Yeah, he knows who I am. I think that's cool.

But anyway, he was blown away with this idea flipping the model and having him first and not advertising him and not promoting him. And the other speakers later would appreciate it as well because like a Kevin Hart or they're like, okay, I need to see all the promotional material because you're going to drag the guy's name or Tom Brady, you're going to drag, like Tom, we're not going to advertise you. Oh, okay. Yeah. They're not going to even know you're coming in, bro. Like, it's going to be like, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the stage, Tom Brady. He's like, yeah, but where's the ad the promo? No, there is none. Awesome. And so I said, I'm not dragging your name to get you to sell tickets. By the way, it didn't

work anyway. You know, I know Danny, Danny and is it called a spire? Yeah, Spire. You know, those are not going to work long term. You cannot fill rooms with people. You cannot. It's just almost impossible. We knew the end would come on those live events. Like, it's just so hard to sell 12,000 seats, profitably booked the place. It took us a year to do it. 20 to 30 percent of the audience that buys the tickets, not going to show. Then you got empty seats. That means you have to oversell the road. So if you have 2,000 seats, you really have to sell 3,000 because what you don't want to do is have empty seats. Yeah. Because that just doesn't look good. Yeah. One of the other most epic things that you were known. about for those events was the after party and the artists that you would bring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So out of all the artists that you would bring, who was your favorite, who had the best five, who did you have the most fun with? My God, that we had three times. Rick Ross? No, I love Rick, but not him. Wyclef? Yeah, why clef. When you jumped into the pool? The best, bro. Yeah. Wyclef is the best. He's an entertainer, man. He is completely underrated.

Yeah. Undervalued in the marketplace. Been around for a long time, man. And he's all. all there when he's there. He's not looking to do his gig and get out, which I've been guilty of. Yeah. You know, yeah. So, yeah, those after parties were sick, too, dude. But again, all that was just wasting money on. You wouldn't do that part again.

Well, I'm just saying that there's, you know, nobody's going to wake up two years later and thank you for it. Well, I will. Thank you because they were freaking active. That's fucking crazy. You know, you know, nobody's going to click bait. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody's going to give me credit for doing the best conferences anywhere in the world ever in the history of the world.

People are chasing you right now. They're trying to do it. Yeah, you can't do that. Yeah. See, and that was another thing that we were trying to do. I told Jared and Sherry, I said, guys, I want to create an event. We literally try to do this. And this is a hack. Do something that your competitors cannot do.

You cannot do that. You don't, companies do not have the money to spend that much money on AV, music, sound, all the things that it takes, like the red carpet stuff, the VVIP, the 20,000. $1,000 seats. Like, you can try it. Yeah. Yeah. You ain't going to do it, bro. You're not going to do it.

And by the way, I can't do it forever because it's just functionally almost impossible to do. But if you can do it, you're going to own a slot. Like Cardone Capital, same thing. Hey, what can we do that other people want to do? Oh, we're going to pay every month. We're going to go after regular investors, regular people, not institutions. We're not going to go to the bank for money. We're going to buy best in class real estate.

We're going to set up our own kind of payout. You know, this morning, Starwood announces that they're, you know, stopping their redemptions. $22 billion fund that they raised from retail investors, John Gray at Blackstone. I'm meeting with them Monday. They went after the retail investor. I started that entire thing with going after retail investors for institutional quality real estate. Now, they're going to try to duplicate it, but it's very, very difficult to duplicate that when all your buddies are bankers. Right.

They don't have an audience like you. No. Well, they could get the audience, but the problem is they don't want to talk to. Bill Ackman does not want to talk to regular people. That's right. No offense, Bill, I'm a big fan. But I ask you to come on my podcast and you're like, let me see if I could find a time to do it. But you're going to fucking see NBC tomorrow morning because that's your audience.

See, my audience is I'm going to go feed real people. And the banks, the concept is if I eat with the banks today, they won't invite me to dinner tomorrow. Yep. So I have to build, I have to build my own dinner. you know, if they don't invite you, you know, have your own dinner. So I'm creating my own meal and then they're going to keep seeing people go sit at that table and they're going to be like, hey, we want to sit down with you now. So I always said that.

I always said if you want a seat at the table, build the table. Yeah, exactly. You want to guarantee yourself a seat. You've just done so good. And you can't get them to fund it. Right. Because if you want them to fund it, they own that table. That's right.

But again, it's very, very difficult to do. So everybody's tried to copy what I've done in syndicating real estate. It's very, very. Well, brother, you're always avant-garde in this no more than what you're doing right now with real estate and crypto. You're trying to be a big crypto guru, bro? No. You're going to be this big crypto. No, no.

Listen, I know you're not. Crypto-brough. You're going to be a crypto-brower in Miami. Listen, I know you're not. But tell the people like, this is truly trend-setting avant-garde, like thinking way outside the fucking box. Not really. It's not really thinking outside the box. But I hear you, but it's really, I found a glitch.

Look, if you're poor, you're going to find glitches. If you're poor and ambitious, you're going to find glitches. If you're poor, you're just going to find excuses if you don't have the ambition. So my solution is never to spend money to do something. It's like, I don't want to spend more money. Anybody can spend more money. But if you're poor, this is why so many immigrants do well in this country. They come here and they look around.

They look for the glitches. Like in Miami, the glitch right now is to be a mate. Fuck, you can make $200 grand a year. So in real estate, you fix yours, you paint yours, I paint mine. We're paying the same for the paint. and the painters. You put a new roof on. You put a new pool in.

I put in a tennis court. We're going to play this little game until we all, you now have a tennis court. You get a tennis court. Now, oh, we got to go to Patel now. Now, or pickleball. I got to get, I got to change my tennis board out for a pickleball. Oh, you're going to get a theater.

You get a theater. I get a theater. But at some point, dude, we're just fucking copying each other. Sure. So I started studying all the reeds, Starwood, Blackstone, Camden, Avalon. These are massive. These are $9 billion to $22 billion companies.

Starwood, $124 billion across all their portfolio. I can't compete with these guys. They have more money, more reach, cheaper money, everything. So I'm like, okay, how do I – what can they not do? Not how can I compete with them. That's the wrong question. What can they not do? Well, they don't distribute monthly.

We do, okay? The reason they don't do that is because it's economically inefficient. So I'm like, I can do that. That won't break me, and it's tremendous marketing. Yep. We don't miss a month. Two, I go after the retail investor, regular people. It's not efficient either, by the way.

Very inefficient. Because I could go to Blackstone, as you guys probably know, I can go to Blackstone and say, I have $100 million and they'll be like, we'll give you $1 billion. Now, they're in charge. They run the engine, but they would give me 10 times the money, 10x. They would give me 10 times the money and let me go manage my deal. Give me a promote the whole deal. One check, one time.

I take a knee, kiss the ring. Yes, sir, Mr. Gray. I'll be your little bitch. And while it goes good, it goes good. They're going to tell me when to sell, like, they have control. But it's faster. I could have grown a lot faster. Instead, I said, no, I'm not going to go to them.

And then I start studying the reet model, the Blackstone, the Avalon. These are reeds, right? So I discovered that they can't keep cash on their balance sheet. They have to distribute all their cash. This was created in 1965 as under the reet structure, tax structure, R-E-I-T-S, REITS, Reets, Real Estate Investors. Trust. That was created in 1965. I was seven years old. It has not changed. Not one letter of the law has changed in 60 years, 61 years. Reitz used to be very, very efficient. They used to make a lot of money and they were very popular. Today, they underperform. They're very inefficient. You're either

too big or too small or you're somewhere lost in between. And I said, man, we're going to have Bitcoin. Four years I've been studying this. You need to put your real estate on the blockchain, all this complicated bullshit completely unnecessary. No, we're going to buy real estate. We're going to buy some Bitcoin. We're going to put the two together in a little pot. We're going to wrap it with an LLC. I'm going to fund the whole thing.

And then I'm going to tell my audience, I did this. And we're going to see if they invest in it. So how does it work structurally for the person who's like, well, this is cool? Use Justin. Justin says Grant. Here's a hundred grand. We're going to go by. And by the way, big shout out, you got awarded that property.

in northern Florida and I think Pensacolo, live in front of us, that was awesome. Justin says, I'm going to give you 100 grand for this property. How does it get constructed? Yeah, so can we just pretend that me and you split the deal? Yeah. So I'm going to go buy the piece of real estate. It's an 1111 book avenue.

Okay. And I go buy the asset. Okay. Now, for this to work, the asset has, I have to be buying below replacement costs for this model to work. You cannot buy the real estate for, you can't overprice the real estate and then add the Bitcoin. Right. So I need to be under replacement costs.

Basically two things. Under replacement costs and I still need to be cash flow after I add the Bitcoin. Okay. So I don't have a Bitcoin symbol, but I'm going to buy this. Let's say this was $10 million. And then I'm going to go add, let's say it cost $15 million to build it. Right. Then I'm going to add $5 million of Bitcoin.

10 million of real estate, $5 million of Bitcoin. I'm going to pay for both of them. them. I'm going to buy it off my balance sheet. And then I'm going to come to you and say, I have a $15 million project, $10 million of its real estate, $5 million of its Bitcoin, fusing the two together, okay? It will still cash flow. It's only going to cash flow 4% now, not 5%. Maybe 3.5. Okay. And the cash goes back to you. Now, we've done different models. I'm just telling you what we're doing right now. You get the cash every month. So you're going to pay $7.5 million. I'm to pay $7.5 million, you're coming at the same price I came at, same price that we bought the

Bitcoin for. I don't mark anything up. I get a 1% fee to buy the deal, find the deal, fund the deal, close the deal. That's our fee. Our fee structure is 1%. So, and that'll come out of the $15 million to close the deal. So now you and I are partners. You're 50, I'm 50. I get a promote on your 50. And on the $15 million that we invested, let's say we paid cash and we didn't have any debt, we will. We're going to make $600 grand a year. $300,000 for you, $300,000 for me, and we're still on the Bitcoin. So I'm waiting for both of these to move upward. It's a 10-year hold with discretion to go another 10 years if I need to.

Okay. It's long money, very patient money, which I want with both a good piece of real estate, and with the Bitcoin, I don't really want to be three or four or five years. Again, the REITs don't do this. The REITs are all three years with two one-year extensions. They tell their investors, the pension fund, you can get out in three years. You don't want to get out in three years, guys. When you have a deal this was done in 22, and the fund structure says, you get your money back in three years.

The last thing you want in 2025 is to get your money back because you're losing money now. Well, you could have two, one-year extensions. Five years is not long in. enough in a real estate deal. Okay? So, you know, we, when the Wall Street tells you short, you can get liquid in three years, it's not for you. Yeah.

It's for them, dude, to get their promote. They get more fees. They get their fees. Yeah. So we don't do that. Yeah. We do 10 years. That means I can't get any fees until 10 years.

I don't get any promote. The clickbaders don't talk about this. Yeah. The clubbators say, oh, Grant Cardone's got a 20 percent. I've had a 20, I've had a 35, I have a 50. A 50% promote. I've seen so many people talk shit about your fees and structure of offerings. It's wild.

Yeah, it's crazy, dude. We're 1% to buy a deal. Some of the big groups are somewhere between 1.5 to 2.5%. We are a 50% promote on some of our deals. I've done a 35, I've done a 20. Some of my deals, I don't get any promote on. It just depends on the piece of real estate and what that real estate can do. So, you know, you have real estate funds out there that have a 7% preferred and never pay it.

And they're never going to pay it. And you pay monthly. We pay monthly. They pay quarterly. Starwood, this $22 billion, just stopped their redemptions this morning and said we can't pay the redemptions. So anyway, what we do with these two things is we're putting these two together, a real asset. I'm not a crypto bro. We're putting a real asset that's very well understood by the world, real estate, cash flows, great.

location of real estate. And then we combine the Bitcoin and put the two together. They're fused together literally like they're not getting disconnected. So if Bitcoin went on a crazy run, like just insane. Let's say it goes to a million dollars. Right. Okay. You don't sell off the Bitcoin. No, in that example, well, I have the, you have the right to. I'm running the show. Okay. So I'm not asking, you might call me and say, brother, let's sell. Yeah. Well, it's up to me. Okay. Okay. So let's see. In that example, we bought $5 million a Bitcoin, divided by $75,000. So we bought 66 Bitcoin. Okay.

Okay. So let's say we bought 66 doors. That would be perfect. 66 doors and 66 Bitcoin. I'd like to have one Bitcoin for every door. Okay. We did a deal in Boca, three Bitcoin for every door. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So let's say the Bitcoin blows up to a million dollars tomorrow. Yeah. That's 66 million. That's right. We paid 10 million for the real estate, 5 million for the Bitcoin. I'm going to be like, bruh.

By the way, I get my promote when we sell something. That's right. So. Let's exit. So are you going to say now? You say, let's exit. I say, no, I'm going to go borrow against this. I'm going to go to borrow $12 million, 20% of this, $15 million.

Give me mine back. I'm going to give you your $5 million back. No, what did we put $75? I'm going to give your $7.5 back. And I'm going to give my $7.5 back. And I'm on full promote now forever. Yeah. On everything.

Cash flow, Bitcoin upside, everything. And neither one of us pay taxes. Is there any time where the investors get some of that Bitcoin in their own wallet? No. No distribution. It just gets liquidated or borrowed against. You don't get, you don't get, you get cash, you get a cash check every month. The Bitcoin is the asset.

The real estate is just like you don't get the real estate. You don't get the Bitcoin. Makes sense. I'm holding this. We get the 300 grand a month. You get your 300 grand a month. It's for perpetuity until Grant says, let's right. Until I say, let's rock.

Because my goal is to keep these fuse together. I'm going to do 10 of these. Yeah. Then I'm a bulk 10 of them together. It's out of it. And then I'm going to go to Blackstone and say, look what I did, bitch, is. That's it. DX and G.C.

VX is Blackstone. So I showed Blackstone this model. They can't wrap the, that's what I'm saying. The guy looked at it. This is the guy right below John Gray. We probably already drop out the Blackstone name, but right below him, he looked at this deal. He's been there 30 years. Yeah.

He's like, bro, that is crazy. He's like, you will destroy. And this goes back to looking for glitches. you know. If you're poor and you're ambitious, you will find a glitch. Okay? The glitch could be stealing from your grandmother. It could be, you know, hustle in an lemonade stand.

It could be like, I don't even need to eliminate. Yeah. A glitch. I can have a lemonade stand. I can have a lemonade. But, you know, most people don't even really want the lemonade. They just want to give me 20 bucks. So this has nothing to do percentage of, again, if I have 7.5 million.

Yeah. You're not saying, okay, well, 30. percent of that goes to the Bitcoin, 66 percent goes, it's all just goes in one part. No, no, we, you, you own half of it. I own half of it. That's it. We're partners. We're 50, 50 partners in this, in this real estate Bitcoin hybrid. Okay. And then whatever happens with it. But my goal is to go public with this thing. So that I'm going to go to you and say, look, man, I converted your membership in this, your $7.5 million. I converted that to shares. You have, let's say the shares are $10.

Right. You have 75,000 shares now. No, no. Yeah, 75, 750,000 shares. Yeah. I did 10 of these. I'm the only real estate Bitcoin hybrid fund on planet Earth that has real cash flow from real estate, institutional quality real estate.

You can't duplicate any of this. Then I'll go public. I'll blow on this thing to raise money so I can go buy more real estate, more Bitcoin. Hopefully your $10 share goes to 10x. Of course. And I want to. Because I want my money back. Now you got your liquidity.

Right. And I'm going to do it again. Yeah. Buying it again. Go. I want to, I have two questions for sure before we wrap up here. The bigger you get,

the bigger the problems. How do you handle some fucking problems, right? Like the bigger I've gotten, and I'm nowhere near the size of you at this moment. But the bigger I get, the bigger my social media, the bigger my platform, bro,

I keep coming up and like, God damn, just problems keep coming. Yeah. How do you, we just talked about your wife getting taken for 2.5 million. Yeah. Maybe that's big.

Maybe it's not. But it's a fucking problem. What are you talking about, dude? Who wants to leave $2 million? You know, I just, you have other fucking problems that you're doing with too. Like, how do you sleep? How are you not always stressed out? How are you handling it?

Well, my church helps a lot with that. So you wake up in the morning, you know, you put your clothes on. You put one foot and say, okay, let's go to battle. That's it. Let's go do it. Let's keep moving forward. All things pass. Everything passed in time.

You ever been on the brink of once you started making money? Yeah. Because I understand your history. Have you ever been like? like I might fucking lose it all. No. Okay. I have never had that.

Yeah. I've never been to that place where, I mean, in 2008, it was like, okay, the end could be here. Sure. But not since then. Yeah. You know, that was a nasty. It's because I wasn't big enough. Yeah.

If you get big enough, if you get enough debt, you're not going down. Yeah. They're going to help you out of it. Yeah. So, you want debt, though. You want debt and you want partnerships. The more partnerships, I didn't know this when I was growing up, the more partnerships you have, the better.

Like, it protects everybody. The more people would be, let's say me and you have a deal. If we could add another 80 people to that partnership, you and I are more protected. Insulated, yeah. We're insulated because in America, you don't take partnerships down. Yeah. Even if they want to take you out, they can't damage another 86 people, 86.

Yeah. They can't 86 people just to get to you. So the partnership actually protects us all. But have I ever been to the point where like, okay, this is going to be the deal breaker? No, but I'm very, I'm financially, extremely conservative. We only have 42% debt. That's great. Everybody, all the clipbaders seem to miss that.

Incredible. I have $2 billion of debt. The assets are worth $5 billion without the Bitcoin. Without the Bitcoin, yeah. The, we have debt on 42 of the 47 properties, five of them. or paid for in cash. I don't know how you, how do you lose something if it's paid for cash? Yeah.

Okay. And the other, the whole portfolio is about 40% leveraged. With long-term debt, most of it's five to 10 years left on it, you know. So you're going to get into politics? You're going to go run for mayor of California? No, I ain't doing that. I ain't doing that. I looked at it, you know, I looked at going to California.

Yeah, you jumped. I saw you at Panetus. Yeah. And I was like, oh, this boy is about to go for a run. Yeah, you know, and I'd probably be right there in that, you know, I'd probably be right there with Steve Hilton right now. Yeah. You'd probably fucking win. Probably.

Probably. But it wasn't worth it. What we want to do, I want to move. I want to move. I want to expand our wealth business. So in the future, yeah, we're going to create a, we're going to start managing people's money, not just in real estate, but life insurance. I want to give a big shout out real quick to Grant. If you're not a part of any of his live events, get there.

Adam and I have just made some rather important decisions to be a bigger part of Grant's world, right? From the foundation and being on the yacht with you guys, but also being very intertwined in everything you're doing. If you're interested in any level of real estate, I really urge you. He's the guy that really put me in the headlock, called me out on live YouTube in my podcast. Get into Grant's world. I don't care how, whatever level he has a level for you guys. I just want to make sure everyone hears that from me because there's so many people. like, oh, you guys are both coaches.

No, he's the man, period. So I just want everyone to, you know, want to give you their flowers. You know, there's, I tell the company this all the time, like, nobody's going to come in here. They're not buying one product from one group. No. Like, I don't know what the whole competition thing is.

I know it happens. We have a bunch of different divisions in our company, and we see it manifest inside the company, where it's like, okay, if they pay us, then Cardone Ventures does and get something. And I'm like, guys, this is ridiculous. Okay. Or if Cardone Ventures gets the money, then Cardone training didn't.

I'm like, guys. Okay? I had this conversation with Jerry yesterday. The guy that didn't give you, we have this product where we do fractional consulting for a company. And it's like $4,000 a month. And I said, dude, let's get some bump front money from the guy, $10 or $15,000 or $20,000. And he's like, yeah, it's going to hurt the sales. I'm like, the guy that just bought that, $4,000 for $30,000.

six month, walked over to Cardone Capital and gave him 200 grand, right? Left there and went and bought a damn Porsche. Yeah. For 115,000. And then went and bought a house. Like, like, like, people that have are going to spend money on more than one thing. There's no, there's no shortages. How's your, do you grant card down the person to deal his partners with?

I benefit on all of it. Right. I was going to say, so he's like, all right, Jerry, good point. Brandon, we got one. Like I'm like, please, please, just do whatever you want to do. Like, the perfect thing is you do every, you do, you would do all of it. Yeah, exactly. It's called saturation.

Yeah. Saturation is the ultimate, really probably the only way to customer satisfaction is through saturation. Apple computer does it better than, Apple does it better than anybody. Saturation is where I got your iPads, I got your phones, I got your six phones. I just made my wife change a phone just so I could get the different. She had the old cable. And I have the new phone. And every time I want the old cable, the new cable, I got to run through her six old cables. I'm like, fucking get a new phone. So I don't have to chase your cable around. So it's saturation.

Saturation is the ultimate way to real customer loyalty. And so the more products, like we've raised $2 billion from investors. I should have their checking accounts, their savings accounts, their life insurance, their annuities. That's the well side now. Yeah, dude. And I'm going to do this. And I'm telling everybody I'm going to do it. This is why we quit doing the growth conference. So I could move into a pure bank, Merrill Lynch, I'm going to become a tiny trawl swab until I'm not tiny.

I believe everything you say at this point, I now believe. You've only been right all the time in my world. Yeah, yeah. I'll make it happen. Like I don't, you know, I don't come out and say I'm going to do something and not. Well, we're going to the wealth con in two weeks, right? So we'll be there and see you again. But is that kind of your direction now? So you'll heavily promote the wealth con and then that will start to lead into the growth. Yeah. So, so, so those events become a place where I get access to the people that will ultimately be that claim. Dude, it's easy for me to call. Let's say I want to have dinner with Bill Pulte. Bill, Bill runs Fannie Mae and Freddie Matt. Hey, Bill, man, I'm going to D.C. and have dinner with you.

Okay, man, cool. Now, you know, if Trump doesn't call him over to the White House, yeah, I'll do dinner. So what are we going to sit down and have dinner? Shoot the shit a little bit. Or, hey, Bill, I'm doing an event in Miami. I'd love for you to come speak to my friends here. How many people are going to be there?

About 500. Oh, yeah. I'd love to do that. That's right. Nice. Now, I get time with Bill, and I get to share him with the audience. Yeah. By the way, Bill does that for nothing.

That's good. So then I call, the guy that's doing my family office, okay, takes about $7 million to build out a full family office. So I'm like, hey, look, I want to build out a family. Steve, I want to build out a family office. And, you know, I'm going to do it with you. And let's do it.

But I want to democratize this to my audience and show them how they're mass affluent. There's a lot of people in this country have a lot of money, but they get ignored by the banks. And I want to show them, you guys. guys how to put your family office in place. I didn't do it. Yeah. I waited. I should have done it. You should do it now. How to put that family office in place so that when you hit it, you're not, you're mitigating your taxes and set up for generational wealth. So Steve's going to come in and talk about that. He consults the wealthiest families in America.

Phenomenal. So that event gives me an opportunity to learn from somebody, share with our audience, everybody. It's a win-win, man. It is. You built it the right way. Yeah. And see, I'm going to build something. I haven't built it yet. We're building it as we go. So there's no reason for me not to wait.

Right. I'm not waiting to build it. I'm going to start stumbling in the direction of understanding what this space is. Knowing that, look, everything's a marketing game. Yeah. Like everything's a marketing game. There is no. So you're going to be in the red.

I'm guessing. You'll go under the red market. No, I won't want to red. Okay. Now, I refuse to do that. Okay. Well, I'm just saying a marketing. I'm using a big example.

A hundred grand in marketing. You're trying to figure out what's selling, what pricing, so you might be a little bit in the red. Maybe not. Maybe not. Yeah. Fair. I mean, you have to.

Why lose? Why lose? No, need to. You know, you don't have to. Just get that out of your mind. I can't even believe you entered that into my... But, you know, that's how most people think. I got to bleed.

You don't have to, dude. Talking about real estate and winning, can we get back to, you had said something in an interview not too long ago about all the money sitting on the sidelines right now. Yeah. I'd like to just hear your take on that because, you know, 21, 22 in the multifamily game, people were throwing money at everything. Now we've kind of come through this part of the cycle where we're kind of scraping the ground, right? People are buying, you're seeing all this debt come do. You're buying assets at 30, 40 percent discounts.

Yeah. Off the highs. And a lot of money has been sitting on the sidelines, right? You've been listening, man. A lot of money sitting on the sidelines. Dude, and it's sitting there waiting to buyouts. Okay. So what do you see over the next 18, 24, 36, maybe 48 months as far as investors releasing that cash?

Well, where does it go? I thought, in all fairness, I was wrong that in 21, I thought 24, 25, if you could stay alive, though it was just saying, if you can stay alive to 25, you're going to be all right? Yeah. Dude, here we are in 26 and there's no fix. They missed a year. Okay. It's a year. Okay.

So 21, there was a bunch of debt put on deals and was three-year debt, 22, 23, 24. That debt should have expired already. Now, let's say it had two, one years, extensions, 25, 26. We're there. You can't get another extension. Now the problem is, is this guy ready to tap out or not? Because if he taps out, let's say we did that deal, that $15 million deal, without the Bitcoin, by the way, because with the Bitcoin there, you don't have any problems.

Right. If you to put Bitcoin on every deal in 2021, you would have zero correction in the marketplace. Because you would have, the Bitcoin would be liquid. Right now, you just have a stack of real estate that's not liquid. In fact, that real estate, if it was like these two books, that book's gone. The top book was the equity. This was the real estate debt, and this was the equity. Well, because rates went from three to seven, that equity layer is gone.

on. So now they're going to go back to the, they're going to go back to the equity. Let's say the equity was Goldman Sachs. And they're like, hey, our equity's gone in this deal. Or let's say Goldman Sachs was the primary portion of this debt. And then the equity was whoever. It's gone, dude. So the builder's like, I can't make any money. There's no promote. There's no fees. Right. There's trillions of dollars of this. problem sitting in the market. So when does it happen? It's happening now. Now the problem is the big institutions don't want to tap out yet. So I'm working three different institutions right now.

I know, you know, they walk in like, this is a different level, dude. This is, I go into an office in D.C. And the guy brings me a spreadsheet. And I'm like, what am I looking at? Okay. He's like, there's 63 pages. There's 30 lines on every page. Every line represents. Every line represents. a piece of real estate. There's 30 lines, 60 pages. There's 1,800 properties. You just highlight the ones you want. So we do all this, do deal.

I'll take this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one. We sit down and look at the NOI. We made an offer. They're like, yeah, we're going to wait. Are you buying them for the debt or trying to buy them for the debt? No, no, no. All these were probably maturing deals that they're all maturing. Yeah.

Am I trying to buy it for just the debt? Just the debt, yeah. Because you're not going to get them. Because this guy's like, yeah, dude, we're not having that headline. Yeah. Now, I know you see a lot. I know there's a bunch of videos online, you know, of guys like, oh, yeah, I'm buying it for two-thirds of the debt. You ain't getting the real estate.

I'm buying for two-thirds of debt. There'll be 55 guys in line waiting to buy that piece of real estate for that. Like, nobody over-leveraged. They didn't. It was an interest jump. Huh? It was the interest rate jump. The race job.

That's it. No one was ready for it. The piece of real estate, real estate gets sick, but it doesn't die. But it's, I think it's a garbage like Tides bought. Tides bought all that shit if you look them up, okay? Tides bought all this shit real estate in Texas. A bunch of these guys did by the, the big groups, the Starwoods and even the BXs, they went and bought, they had so much money. Dude, they were raising $10 billion a week.

And they have to put the money to work in order to get their fee. Because the money just sitting there, they don't get their fee, so they had to push the money into the marketplace. And, you know, how much great real estate is in America? Very little. Yeah. There's not a lot of great real estate. Pick a city. There's probably 2% of an entire city represents great real estate.

The rest of it's just, you got pickleball, you got pickleball, I got pickleball. There's no competitive advantage. And you've got all this new supply coming on. So you've got rents going down, rates going up. It should be a harvest right now, but it's not yet. I think the funniest thing is, in my world, the easiest thing would be why wouldn't more people, more operators, buy a rate cap. It's expensive. But overraise, buy the rate cap, and you protect yourself.

The only way it goes is goes down. So buy a rate cap at 5%. Buy a rate cap at 4%. I know. But for how long? Yeah. Three years. Yeah, three to five years.

You're not going to get one for five. Yeah. Three. Three. That rate caps up. Now you're buying another one. Where's the money coming from? You can call your investors.

Hey, guys, I need a million four for a rate cap. What? Bro, you haven't returned money on the last deal. Yeah, yeah. So, like, you overraised for the rate cap. Look, I did rate caps on five deals. I hate them. I thought in 21, for sure, we'll be out in three years.

We'll do a three-year loan. It's the only time in my entire career I've done three-year debt. And I regret them all. Out of 47 deals, we had, we had short-term debt on seven deals. I've had to fix two of them. No capital calls. I fixed it myself. I just wrote a check. Maybe I get it back later. Maybe I don't. I don't know. Click baiters missed that part. Yeah. The click Bader's missed that part. Well, how would they get it? They don't even know because they never interview me. That's right. Like the thing to do would be to interview me. It's not like I'd say no. Right. You'd like, yeah, I'll be on there. You also, you also mentioned recently, I think it was

at the last event we were at, that 50% or more of the real estate you see online is complete bullshit. It's not for sale. Yeah, it's not for sale. Right. Like I saw a deal yesterday called the 99 in Atlanta. Beautiful. As soon as I saw it, I said, oh, they're not selling that. They're trolling.

Yeah. They're going to troll 700 grand a door. Sheesh. They're testing. They're going to, yeah, because their debts do. Right. So they got to go to their partners and say, guys, where do we get out here? Maybe the, maybe the Mormon church is the debt on it.

Or maybe it's the pension. fun of the teachers, Calpers, or maybe it's the Florida, the state of Arizona Pitching Fund, whatever. And they're like, hey, we need our money. Yeah. And they're like, okay, we'll run a test. We'll find out if there's a market for the asset. Nobody's going to show up.

They're going to be like, okay, we'll give you guys another two years. They'll go back to their board and say, guys, the number's not there right now. Just got to wait. Front headlines today. this is Barry Sternlich saying exactly this. Hey, guys, we're going to stop redemptions. Barry Sternlich, Starwood, halt's redemptions from REIT. We're going to wait until the marketplace recovers.

Insane. They've been waiting since 24. That's one of the groups that showed me all the spreadsheets. Yeah. So there will be a tidal wave. There's going to be, I mean, sooner or later, but you have to be in the game right now. Like right now, I haven't done a deal in nine months. Yeah.

Nine months. The deal we did with Blackstone back in July, that big deal, the 101 Meisner, it was $230 million. We added $100 million a Bitcoin to it. That deal took 17 years to get to that place, and I tracked it for two years to get it. And you're going to move forward on the one that you were awarded two weeks ago at the event? Well, that event, we're going to move through the Naples deal. We're buying the Naples deal with 282 units and 282 Bitcoin. The deal in that you're talking about that the kid caught, the old man called.

That's one of those deals where like, not yet. It was a jerk off. No kidding. Totally, dude. It was a troll. In front of everybody. He didn't know he was in front of everybody. He did.

The broker didn't know he's getting trolled. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we wrote it up. Here's $41 million. That was the number. Here's your $41 million. I'll close in 60 days. And they came back and said, no, not yet.

So that's the way you find out quick. Here's your number. I had two deals happened to me in Houston, Texas. Both by Hanover, build super high quality stuff. And they're like, we're not getting rid of this. Why would we get rid of this? They got their number. They got over their number.

Three groups. I was third. two other groups hit the number. I didn't quite get it. They kicked me out of it, said they wanted to go with one of the other two groups, picked a group and then said, no, we're not going to sell it. Because when they went back to their board, they're like, we cannot build this. Guys, what are we doing?

Yeah. Why sell it when we can't build it for that price? So let's just raise the money internally. And that's why they're trolling those assets. They're dragging them to get a number so they can go back to their board and say, Look, Justin won't pay the number. Cardone won't pay the number. Blackstone won't pay the number. Scarwood won't pay the number. Let's just keep it. It's a great asset. We just need another three to five years. Well, the smaller operators that are selling right now, they don't want to sell. They're being forced to sell. Why would you sell? Nobody ever really wants to sell real estate. But if it's not cash flowing, if you look up and say, I have no cash flow. I got 80 investors and they're all pissed off. Right. And I have no way out. out in the future and I have a loan due. If your loans do, it doesn't matter what you want.

The problem is if your loan comes due in May and the bank's like, you got to pay. And I'm like, I can't. Now you're going to go to foreclosure. So you're May 2026. This deal is still not going to come unwound probably until 28. Yeah. So you, and then if you're not paying attention to it in 28, the bank's going to call, hey, Grant, you want the deal?

And then I would have invested a time and energy to track that guy the whole time. Yep. Because whichever in the front of the line right then is going to get the deal. That's right. First call. Yeah. Anyway, the real estate thing, that's a business. Yeah.

A lot of people get into this thing thinking, okay, I'm just going to buy a deal. I don't think, would you argue most people should be operators? Or what do you say? Go flip some homes. No, most people should just be. Most people should, nobody should flip. Yeah. Well, I was just going to say more like being passive versus operating.

You're going to be a flip. or just be a stripper. And if you can't be, I mean, you're just being a hoe. I mean, you're just like, and you're going to get caught. You're going to get caught. I just did. 17 years later, I just got caught. And how much did you lose on the-

$3 million? Yeah. Did you wipe out everything you'd earned? One deal can wipe out everything. One year was more than one deal. It was my mistake by going at volume being aggressive and literally kind of the motto, I was so good to what I was doing. Yeah.

I was 10xing every. I was like, let's just go bigger. Yeah. Well, there was a lot of problems, right? I out sprinted my team. My team couldn't handle it. Contractor saw a vulnerability spot so they started taking advantage. I mean, all these different things.

I'm still the guy that is my fault. I still own it. Yeah. Yeah, no, I get it. You know what I mean? Yeah, the way to have gone bigger then was to stop the flipping. You go to apartments. That's why I say I give you your phone, bro.

You were right a year, if I just would have listened. Yeah. Yeah. But I think what Justin was asking is in multifamily. Let's just take what you do. everybody says that not everybody but a lot of people I want to be an operator I want to buy a building I want to do this I want to do that do you think most people really should do that or be passive and just say hey no here's my check first of all most people can't they don't even know how to negotiate with the broker much less the seller that's and once they get the deal now the work starts yeah I mean even before then like even before that like because you can turn the management over negotiating with the broker to be the number one guy To be their choice, like that is a skill set. You know, the first time I heard Ryan on a phone, I gave Ryan,

I let Ryan make a phone call to a broker. And I'm like, he wasn't even 15 seconds. I'm like, bro, if you ever do that, I put him on mute. I'm like, bro, what are you doing? Complaining about the roof and the siding and the windows and the rents and the occupancy. What are you doing, dude? He's like, well, I'm trying to get the price down. I said, you don't even have the deal.

Yeah. Fuck the price. You're turning the guy off. You sound like every other buyer. Yeah. So I picked up the mute and I said, dude, I love the look. location, love the roof. I'm glad they haven't fixed it. I'm glad they haven't painted it. I'm glad that the occupancy is down to 88. Like, all this thing is exactly what I like to buy. Oh, really?

You know, so most people don't know how to negotiate with the broker. Two, they don't know how to negotiate a price. Three, they have no clue what to do with their debt. They don't even know who to go to to get debt. Right. So they're never turned down. Yeah. Then that's three. You hadn't raised any money yet. That's right. Now, when you start raising money, now you're in a world of a tiny group of people, unless you're going to go to the big banks. And if you go to the big banks when you're young, they're going to just chop you up. So if you go to the retail investor, now I got to get them to pay attention to me. Why my deal rather than grants or Starwoods. You know, there's a lot to, there's a lot to learn. There's a lot. Yeah, most people should not

meet. Most people should just invest with me. That's right. That's right. That's right here. That's where I here. And if it was up to me, this is with the clickbader, say, I want to turn everybody into a renter because I want everybody to pay me rent. Everybody should pay me rent. I am up. This is my evil enterprise. Well, everybody should be a renter, period.

1,000. Without question. Because, I mean, everybody is a renter. Right. Exactly. You just call it a mortgage. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, but everybody should own real estate, dude. Everybody should own it. You know, I was, I had a meeting with, um, Steve, which is my creating this family office for me, he's like, Grant, how much life insurance do you have? I said, I have 70,000. I bought it when I was 22. And he's like, 70, how much?

I said, 70,000. He's like, Grant, you need more life insurance. I said, no, bro, I got 15,000 units. That's right. He's like, oh, yeah, I forgot. That is my life insurance. That's my life insurance. Yeah, no doubt.

You know, that's the best life insurance in the world. I appreciate you coming on again for the third time. You were the only person. I've been on there three times? Three times, yeah, but you had your partner this time. I did,

much better, much better. Much better. Yeah. And dude, it's been, it's been how long? That photo of us was 2018. It's been eight years of you and I becoming friends,

making it happen. That's why everyone needs to believe in this guy. He's a real deal. So I appreciate our friendship, dude. I appreciate you, man. Thank you. Thank you for not being a hater.

And, you know, appreciate you. Appreciate you. And I just want everybody to do great things, you know, plenty of room for all. Right on. The best thing that could happen for me is you guys would go buy 15,000 units. And then I would take my 15,000, put it with your 15,000, and then we have 30,000, and let me take that public. I mean, that's really the game I'm up to.

I like that idea. Let's go make that happen. Yeah. And so rather than your audience, rather than your audience, you know, banking at Charles Schwab or Fidelity or Merrill Lynch, they could bank at our bank. They're going to bank somewhere. That's right. Like, I'm not asking people to do something. They're not doing.

And guess what? None of those other institutions you mentioned are cutting them a check every month. No, they're not going to sit down and talk to you. They're not going to go on a cruise with you. They're not going to have you at their office building in their, in their classroom. We're not going to do it. They're not going to do a Zoom call with you. You're not going to talk to trial swab for two hours once a month.

Saying, hey, how's the deal working? What's going on? What's the problems? What's the challenges? Like, there's so many ways to hack these big banks. banks because they're so big, they're so giant, they can't touch the customer anymore. So, yeah. Thank you, brother.

Appreciate you. Appreciate you, guys. Appreciate you, bro. I don't. Great job, guys.