The Science of Flipping - The Mindset Shift You Need in Real Estate for 2023| Brad Chandler

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

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So here's the advice that you're not going to hear on any other podcast in the world, especially a real estate investing podcast. It's really easy to tell someone to a new student or an experienced person. Hey, Johnny, go. Hey, Sally, go focus. 83% of Americans aren't happy. Why aren't they happy? Because they don't have self love and self compassion. Why don't they have self love and self compassion? Because they've got unresolved trauma or stress from their childhood. Yo, yo, what is up, everybody? Welcome back to the Science of Flipping podcast. I am your host, Justin Colby. I have a very, very important guest here, a guy that I have known now for years and years and years, one of the largest real estate investors, wholesalers in the space, and is someone that I'm super excited to have on the show. Mr. Brad Chandler is here with us.

What's up, buddy? Hey, Justin. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Well, this episode is going to reach the audience here early 2023. Hopefully, it will be out within January. But as I say those dates, it is very important to say those dates because I want to talk about what has gone on. I want everyone to know a little bit more of your background here. I want you to kind of give them some relatability

of who you are and what you've been able to build now over almost 20 years you're on my guy. So this is the real deal guys. If you guys don't know him, have not heard of him. He's in the Northeast, but he is a major, major player in our space. And so I know this has been a big year for you. It has been a challenging year for a lot of investors. However, you somehow have flipped that script. So I want to talk about that and how we can go into 2023 as real estate investors, what you kind of predict, how we can pivot, move, adapt, what you're doing, and kind of what has made that change for you. So if you want to, you know, tell people who you are and what you've done and where you came

from, that'd be pretty cool. Yeah, man. So I read a book on how to buy real estate with no money down when I was in ninth grade and knew that I always wanted to do real estate because I wanted to make a lot of money. Right. And there's unlimited income potential in real estate. So in late 2002, an investor bought my neighbor's house in Vienna, Virginia, and I went and talked to him. And he says, yeah, I buy a house at 30% below market. I fix them up and I resell them. So I'm like, shit, that's what I'm going to do. So I spent eight long months. I had a newborn son. I'd come home from a full-time job and spend from six to eight with him, put him in a bed. And I worked from eight to 11 every night, pounding we buy

houses, signs, knocking on doors, you name it it putting out, you know, handwritten hundreds of letters. And each week that went by in each month that went by, I got more and more persistent because I'd go to these real estate meetings, I'd see all these deals being done. I'm like, if they can do it, I can do it. So that's one of my keys to success is just ultimate persistence. So it took me eight long months to find my first deal. So that's July of 2003. I bought six houses in July and July and August of 2003. I came home in October and told my wife at the time, I just quit. I've started Express Homebuyer. She's like, what? We have a newborn son and I have two kids. You've got to support and you just quit. I was like, it'll be fine. And here we are 20 years later and

4,000 plus houses. And it was fine. It was fine. That's right. 4,000 houses. So there's a funny connection there, right? So most of my audience knows it took me nine months to get my first deal. I did not have kids or was married, but I was broke, busted, and disgusted, right? But I had that same persistence. I had the same commitment. I literally have a one-on-one student that is kind of just in the trenches right now. He's kind of down now. He's feeling like he should be making more progress. He's like, how did you just keep going? And I said, well, I made a decision to commit to this and I was going to win. What I didn't do is said when, and I think that's something that you probably did as well

as you just said, I'm going to go win and provide for my family and go be a lion. My terms of like, we got to go kill for the tribe. Right. And, um, you just didn't say when it was going to happen, but you knew it was going to happen. And now you're right. Yeah. And by the way, I was making sick when I first started, I was making $60,000 a year at my full, at my full-time job. And I had a negative net worth of $80,000 from graduate school. So I didn't, I couldn't go launch, you know, a $10,000 a month marketing program because I didn't have any money. That's right. That's right. And it's funny because you know, in the newbie space and you and I, you've done this now almost 20, I've done this 15. I try to always put myself back to where the newbies, right? I'm a coach, you're a coach.

And it's like one of those things that's like, got to remember that, that fear and the hesitance and the stress and the anxiety and, man, I got to make this work, right? And in the thing that I believe the reason you are you and I am me and, and those that have made it for this longevity, right? Is this ability to again, persist, no matter what, right? Meaning, you know, know it will work you know how it works you've been around others you and i were in a mastermind it's a four or five years no six years ago six or seven yeah yeah up in sedona um which was phenomenal by the way still one of my most memorable uh to this day but i say that to all say, you know, even then, like, you got to be able to adjust and adapt and make sure you are moving with the times. And so kind of let's bring this a little bit more

current, you've done 4000 deals, you in 2022. Because officially, as we're recording this 2022 is over, had you said the largest grossing revenue year ever? Is that correct? We had, if not our top, I mean, we're finalizing numbers, but if not the top, we had one of our top two or three highest net profit years ever. Now, how did that happen when most took a pretty, well, I don't want to say a beating, right? But there's a lot of what I would call blood in the streets from experienced investors, right? They got a little bit too greedy is usually what I to say beating, right? But there's a lot of what I would call blood in the streets from experienced investors, right? They got a little bit too greedy is usually what I would say there, right? They were too hungry because they were winning so big over the last three to five years. I personally knew this season was coming. I knew it was coming. So I took a lot

of my chips off the table, right? So I stopped essentially flipping. I think I flipped two homes in 2022. Now my friends who I would sell to would be like, why do you keep wholesaling me these deals? I'm making 60, 80 grand. You're making 20 grand. Why don't you just flip this, right? Like, why aren't like, why are you selling? I'm like, brother, cause I know at some point this music turns off. I just don't know exactly when. So I'll take my 20. You can keep your 60 high five. You get to buy dinner, but I'm going to be a little bit more reserved. And that comes through experience because I've had to eat my shit sandwiches when I

was beating greedy and going a little too heavy. So how were you able to have such an incredible year where in the last 90 days towards the end of the year, I think there was some blood in the streets. People were taking some beatings. So, I mean, it's a really complicated answer. I'm going to try to boil it down. So we went through being in business for 20 years. We went through the downturn of 2008, the worst real estate downturn ever from 2008 to 2012.

And we learned some lessons. But did we learn everything? No, because we got stuck with some rehabs too. The difference is in 2000, you know, 2008, 2007, we had like 80 renovation products going on at any given time. Now, fast forward to this year or last year, you know, we had a maximum of 15 or 20. So did we get caught on some? Absolutely. But your question on why did we have such a good year? I went through a major life transformation two years ago, where I found self love and self compassion by un, un telling myself the untruths that came from childhood trauma. And as I did that, I realized that I started the business, as I said, to make a lot of money. And I think that's what a lot of entrepreneurs do make a lot of money, because why they've got to prove their worth. I didn't start out the business saying, Hey, I'm not worthy. But my subconscious mind did from my childhood trauma that was never processed. So when I made that switch, and I found the self love, like everything

in my world changed, including business. And one of the things I shifted from was, hey, I never have to go do these crazy things again to make millions of dollars. I lost Justin, I lost $9 million in five business mistakes trying to chase my worthiness. So when I shifted in business from, oh, I've got to make a lot of money to prove my worth to the world, which again, was a subconscious thought. I didn't wake up saying that. I shifted from that to making an impact. And so I started to track people from podcasts like this. People were like, dude, I want to go to making an impact. And so I started to attract people from podcasts like this. People were like, dude, I want to go work for that guy. And I literally attracted people.

And now my focus is not on going to open a new market when I shouldn't. It's how do I make the greatest impact on the sellers, on my employees, on my investors? So now I coach my team members. And there's a lot of suffering people out there. 83% of Americans identify as not being very happy. If you're not very happy, you're not going to be a great worker. If you've got anxiety and depression, you don't sleep and you've got headaches, you're not going to be a very good worker. And some of my workers are like that. Some of my, some of my

employees, team members. So I have been focused on how do I make the biggest impact in their lives? And that's when, you know, look, is that the reason you can, you can decide for yourself, but I think it's a big reason why we've had such an, such an impactful and profitable year. Yeah. I think part of the answer without saying it, I'll, I'll kind of reframe it is your extreme focus. You reframed your focus from just making as much money as humanly possible to prove your own self-worth to making an impact, creating value, loving yourself, being there for others, filling your, I mean, a generic way of saying that is filling your tank up so you can pour into others. Right. And that's my way of

saying what I heard right, right there. And it obviously helped, right? I mean, you, you were able to do more revenue in the given year. Did you do as many flips or were you primarily wholesaling through 2022? Uh, we did, it was probably 50, 50 flips and wholesale. Okay. And how many doors did you flip? So we did a total of 300 deals and I'm going to guess we probably wholesaled, you know, uh, probably 200 or close to 200 of those. And then we rehabbed another 100, 120, something like that. Yeah. And then just for my own curiosity, since you're on my podcast towards the last 120 days, are, were there, or are there some of those flips that are lingering and, and maybe a little bit of a loss leader is, is that's what I've seen in the masterminds.

I mean, absolutely. The last 90 days, things have changed drastically on us and volume. I mean, one of the things that, you know, no one can predict what's going to happen, but six months ago, eight months ago, nine months ago, when everyone was trying to predict what was happening, I was saying at least, Hey, I don't know what interest rates are going to do, but I know for one thing, the volume is going to be way, way down and it is way, way down now. So, you know, it's something you've got to be focused on is the focus. That's what I was gonna say earlier. Justin, do you know much chaos I created in my business for the first like 17 years? And why did I create chaos? Because it was always, you know,

people talk about the shiny object syndrome. Why is there a shiny object syndrome? It's not because the person has ADD. It's because what can I do to make some quick money? And I would, I mean, chaos, all my, my staff would be like, dude, every day you have a new idea. It's because I didn't love the state that I was in. I didn't love myself. And I was unconsciously trying to continuously change it. Like, let's do something to make me feel better. Let's go open that market when I can't even do basic shit in this market. Let's go open that market because then maybe I'll make a million dollars there and then I'll be worthy. Yeah. Would you even say that that shiny object syndrome had something to do with like creating more work to kind of not have to think about or feel about what you were dealing with

inside about being worthy, right? Let me go open up a market. Let me go create something. Now I have to go deal with it because I just created this baby over here. So now I have to take care of this baby and grow this baby and all this stuff, which allows you to kind of pull out, withdraw personally. So you don't have to feel the lack of love if you want to use your words. Yes. Two things, distraction. It was a complete distraction. So it made me change my state and it was, well, maybe I can be worthy. So it made me change my state. And it was well, maybe I can be worthy. So it was like a double edged sword that both edges of the swords were super sharp and cutting me. Yeah, no, I think it's interesting, because I always as an educator,

I try my best to always put myself in, you know, the newbies shoes, and or someone who's not at where I'm at, right, Someone who might be doing some deals, but they're like just trying to get into a, you know, better financial place, right? I think there's a couple things that I would give suggestions to, right? And I think this is, I think you're going to say that this holds true. Extreme focus gives you extreme results. And in your case, and what you're saying here in this episode is your focus turned inward, right? In a good way, not in a bad way. Your focus turned into how do I become the best version of myself every single waking

moment and probably even sleeping so I can give to my business, to my family, to my son, to my world. And from there, two years ago, you seen this mass massive growth within your business absolutely and that comes from extreme focus right and what i would tell most people right now that are listening to this and i know i do have a decent amount of newbies listening to this is when you are starting you likely are trying to to brad's point grasp at anything that can make you a dollar right let me go get my first dollar. Let me try this thing over here. Let me try this thing over here. But I would also encourage you

get really focused on one thing and go full steam ahead at it. Because if you don't pick up your head and you keep moving forward, you will get there, right? You will get your first deal. You will make your first million, whatever that thing is that you're trying to do. I've always found, even at the, what I would call the more upper echelon elite level, the masterminds you more, whether it's financially, business, personal. I think that is the root of a lot of it, right? Where I'm the same way as an entrepreneur. You're a visionary, right? So you create these things. You're always in a new idea. Maybe this is going to work. What would you say to those listening to say, okay, whether you're a newbie, maybe you're even you're a doer and you're getting deals done and you're frustrated right now, the last 90, 120 days is really kind of spun you out, right? You're not either getting your first deal yet, or you're losing deal flow. Things have

changed. What would your advice be for those? So here's the advice that you're not going to hear on any other podcasts in the world, especially a real estate investing podcast. It's really easy to tell someone to a new student or an experienced person. hey, Johnny, go, hey, Sally, go focus. 83% of Americans aren't happy. Why aren't they happy? Because they don't have self love and self compassion. Why don't they have self love and self compassion, because they've got unresolved trauma, or stress from their childhood. When you have that lack of self love and self compassion, it's impossible to focus. Because again, you're trying to distract yourself. When you have that lack of self-love and self-compassion, it's impossible to focus because again, you're trying to distract yourself and you're trying to swing for the

fences. So it's not enough to just go say, go focus. It's like telling an alcoholic, just stop drinking. You've got to go to the source of the pain and figure out what is the pain. And here's the thing, Justin, I'm a pretty smart guy, right? I didn't know this. I didn't know. The only reason I know this is because I went to get my son help for anxiety. And a lady on a zoom call said to me, you have a tick, you blink, you blink profusely. When you talk about your childhood, if someone would ask me, did I have childhood trauma? I've been like, no, my dad spanked me a couple of times with a belt, but I didn't mean childhood trauma. Well, that's what most of my clients think. Nine out of 10 of them were like, I had a happy childhood. I get into it. I'm like,

oh my gosh, no, you didn't. That's what's driving your behavior, your failed marriages, your drug addictions, your alcoholism, your obesity, whatever. So that's a really, really, really deep answer that some people are going to be like, that guy's nuts. But I'm telling you, I'm not nuts. It's science. And I'm living proof of it that my focus is like laser focus.

Now I've got this, I've got the best team I've ever got. And we had our best year ever. So that's, I mean, listen, it's not crazy when you can prove it, right? You literally saying here, I've done this for 20 fricking years. The last two years, including 2022 has been the best year ever. Right. I would say that's not crazy as something people should admire and seek after. Right. Because I think there's a lot of people that want more. They're going into 2023. You know, this will come out early in January at some point. Like they're going to say, okay, I want to go crush it, Justin. How do I crush it? What marketing should I do? And I get the tactical side, but people have to understand you're listening to someone who's done this for 20 years. He's made millions and millions and tens of millions of dollars. I mean, shoot, he's lost $9 million. So how many millions has Brad made, right? The point to that is something like this is more valuable. I mean, I'll, and you know this, but I mean, shoot, in my 20s, I went to a ton of therapy

because of my childhood, right? And that's why I do believe I've been able to have and have so much success and reach certain levels is because I've dealt with a lot of that. And quite frankly, I probably even should go to more. And I don't think that's ever a bad thing, but I think it's something everyone needs to hear. And whether people want to recognize it or not, or say, Brad, whatever, I'm just going to go kill and I'm going to make a lot of money and I'm going to drive Lamborghinis. That's fine. That's, that's what they can do. Real estate can absolutely create that lifestyle for you. But if that's the purpose of why you're doing it, you probably won't have longevity in the way that Brad does, or maybe even myself, the purpose has to be bigger, right. Then just making a lot of

money, right. Cause to Brad's point, that could just be you trying to prove your worth. Right. Um, I mean, I think that's incredible advice. What I know there's, there's, you and I were talking about like a test that you could even put people through. Where could they go to like, just take a quick little test in private, by the way, you don't have to walk around and say, I heard this podcast, Justin and Brad. Now I'm take the test in private. Where can they go to do this? Yeah. I just email me literally Brad at bradchandler.com and put in the subject line self-love and I'll send you a quiz.

Look, we're on a real estate podcast and there's someone be like, we're talking about self-love on a real estate podcast like with Justin gone crazy. But I'm telling you that when you lack self-love, like it affects all areas of your life. Most people think like, oh, I'm gonna go figure out my mental capacity

or my mental issues from my marriage or my kids, right? But it affects every area of your life. And when I look back over the 20 years of all of this chaos and all of the millions of dollars I lost, it's this exact reason. And if you'd asked me three years ago, did I have self love? I'd been like, Oh, of course, but I didn't, I didn't know. So you can't change until you're aware. And when you can make that shift of focus, if you want a Lamborghini, you know, the best way you can get a Lamborghini is to figure out this shit and come up with a purpose in your life. Because when you have a purpose in life, and you're trying to make an impact, you'll have more Lamborghinis than if you're just trying to

buy a Lamborghini to show your worth. I totally agree. And that's the vast majority of people, right? There's no one that says that better, in my opinion, than like a Gary V, right? This guy has made a lot, a lot of money and he walks around as if he doesn't, right? If you just look at him, you would never really actually know that part, right? And I think he really echoes what you're saying in a lot of sense.

And so I think for those that are interested, I think it's something everyone should be doing. I will be doing, right? Just to understand, I'm a West Coast boy, right? So I'm all about self-development. I came from San Francisco. And so we're big in that. My family's big in that. My aunt's a healer of energy and this whole thing. And so to give a little bit, to finish a little bit more on real estate, I'd like to kind of give everyone some takeaways going into 2023. I'd like to ask you a couple more questions of how

marketing-wise, what were the marketing channels you were using? Were you doing a lot of creative deals in 2022? And then your outlook going into 2022? Or I'm sorry, 2023? Yeah, so I think I think something's really important, Justin, I don't know how many people are talking about this. But one of the things you know, how do we survive the downturn? We we did a couple things, we staged houses. We made the landscaping look really, really good. My partner used to say, Brad, we don't need to sell a thousand houses. We just need to sell one house in one neighborhood each time. So let's make that house the nicest possible. So we're going back to not that we didn't ever do great renovations, but we're making the house

look really, really, really sexy. We're also spending more and we're putting more emphasis on active comps and solo comps. I don't know what most training programs look like for newbies, but active comps probably weren't talked about a lot because when the market's going up, you don't look at active comps. You look at the solds. If you look at solds now, you're going to be out of business real soon. So I just want to throw that in there. Your question was marketing. No, that's part of my question, right? Is how to attack 2023. But also like, what did you do in 2022 marketing wise? How were you able to do 300 homes? What like marketing for those that are out there? Like, hey, I need to do some marketing. What marketing strategies were

you using? So yeah, TV has always been our bread and butter. So we kept on cranking on TV. We did pay-per-click advertising, both Google and Bing. We started to get into some of the streaming platforms like Hulu, Roku, and whatnot. And that's pretty much it. We did a tiny bit of direct mail, but not much. I love it. And so that marketing budget, again, for those out there, everyone wants to be able to do 300 deals, right? So some are newbies and some are doing some deals, but what kind of marketing budget do you need to put behind that kind of volume? Six figures. Yeah, right.

And I think the reason why I'm asking poignant questions, I think people really need to recognize where Brad and I are at, our marketing budget is not gonna be everyone's marketing budget and the ability to do this. But that's okay, because Brad didn't start with a six-figure marketing budget,

and I damn sure didn't start with a six-figure marketing budget. You need to take advantage of what's your resources, whether it's a Privy, which I think is largely the best software out there for $97, or door knocking, or door hangers, or cold calling. Do what you need to do just to go create the marketing revenue so you can start putting money into marketing. Now, with that said, what are we doing in 2023? What are you changing? How are you adapting?

How are you pivoting in this new year, 2023? So Justin, by the way, I got my first three deals from one homeowner by a magnet that I had on my wife's car at the time that said, we buy houses in big letter. You know, that magnet costs like 60 bucks. So yeah, be bold. Don't worry about what other people think about. And if you, and if you worry about what other people think of you, you need to go take the self-love quiz. Cause that's one of the questions on there. What are we, what are we doing in 2023?

Like it's, it's tough now, man. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Right. It's tough in the terms of the volumes way down. It's harder to sell product. A lot of these, a lot of these hedge fund buyers are gone or not buying right now. So what are we doing? I mean, we're just trying to get better at everything we do. We're going on every single appointment now. So when we would have picked and choose some in the past, we're going on every single appointment. We had a massive success this year in realtor referrals. I mean, there was a couple of months where we made over $60,000 a month in just realtor referrals. I mean, there was a couple, there was a couple of months where we made over $60,000 a month and just realtor referrals. So I've got it. I've got a great team that can, the guy I work with can actually help you do that. So if you're out there and you,

and you've got a marketing budget of at least 10 grand, reach out to me on that level too. And I'll hook you up with this guy. So, so just continue to do realtor referrals, continuing to really keep an eye on what marketing is working um and what's not uh just continuing to hone our skills in terms of being in the properties uh we may go back to some things like it's back in 2008 through 2012 we would give brokers incentives we'd go to their office we take them to the the redskins games you know if you sell our house within 30 days we'll give you another three thousand dollars or whatever so continue to stage our houses make them look really pretty. Those

are the things we're really focused on is just getting, you're not going to survive in this market if you're not really dialed in. So if you're chasing a bunch of stuff, you better, like we said earlier, focus, focus, focus, because it's going to be tough. But I think as prices level, if interest rates stay high, there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for like some creative financing stuff. So we're going to get sharp on that as well. But I don't like the idea of going and buying a house with a mortgage of $450,000. That's that's worth 380. Because someone tells me it's cash flows. I don't like that. I would never advise people to do it. I know there's gurus and stuff out there that do that. I'm not one of them. If I'm going to buy an asset, I don't

want to buy an asset that's you know, that's got a debt on it. That's 70 grand more than it's worth, even if it does cashflow. Right. Yeah. A hundred percent. I just bought a seller sub two deal in Dayton, Ohio. And it's because it has a little bit of equity. So there's some equity in it. It's not some smoking deal, but it has a great interest rate at 3.75%. The rents are way higher in the mortgage payment. It just makes sense, right? It's not some phenomenal deal, but I'm also not someone that's going to go pay 30% more on that property just because of cash flows. I'm not in it for the cash flow. I'm in it for the wealth accumulation, right? Because then banks will go lend on the

equity you have in these properties. And that could either go into your pocket tax-free or it could go to buying more properties, which would probably be my advice there. So I tend to agree with you on 2023. I think getting extremely, again, we've used this word a lot, focus, but I really just boiled it down to buying runway. My first six months of 2023, I want to buy as much runway as I can. What that just simply means is keep doing what I know to be true and what works and put the hustle hat back on, right? And do whatever it takes to continue to buy runway. And through that, you will see a lot of people fall off, right? So competitors are going to fall off. And then some normalcy will come back to the market

with the buyers realizing, okay, interest rates are going to stay around six and a half percent, which is kind of my gut feeling. And then the seller's going to realize, oh, I'm not going to get 2021 pricing, right? Because right now we're in that moment where sellers still want 21 pricing and buyers want a deep discount because they know the interest rate on the backend. So to me, it's buy runway, do what you know to be doing. For me, it's PPC, cold calling. Those are my two main horses. And then I layer on some texting in there. But I love those two because it brings in vast volume

and then it brings in motivation. So dude, I appreciate you coming on here. I appreciate you being vulnerable, sharing some stuff personally with the audience. I second Brad. I support Brad in this, in encouraging people to really focus on themselves as it really will help you speed up your path to success.

If you can be the best version of yourself, you will win bigger. There is no doubt about that. Brad is living proof of that. I am living proof of that. And again, email Brad for that quiz, I guess we'll call it. It's not a test, but it's a little quiz because all entrepreneurs need to focus on themselves because if you can't, you won't run your business properly. Brad, I appreciate you, dude. Any last

words? No, I mean, look, if you're suffering or struggling, there's no reason for it. And just reach out to me. I'll talk to you. I got a free 30-minute call. Just go to bradchandler.com and sign up and I'll help you. And you mentioned the word success, not just success in business, success in your relationships and your children and your home and your health. So it's big. It's huge. Amen, brother. Well, I appreciate you being on here.

We will talk soon. That is it for this episode. Go crush 2023, dude.