The Science of Flipping - The Strategy That Will Revolutionize The Future of Real Estate | Will Denis

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome back, the Science of Flipping family, to another amazing episode. Now, here's the key on this one. Will Dennis has revolutionized how we do real estate investing. In his episode over on The Entrepreneur DNA, did so well and had so much engagement. We are introducing that episode right here. If you are a real estate investor, an aspiring real estate investor, trying to figure out how to get your very first deal,

Starting point is 00:00:24 my guest, Will Dennis, will change everything you know about real estate investor, trying to figure out how to get your very first deal. My guest, Will Dennis, will change everything you know about real estate and how to get your first deal, your next deal, and consistently do deals each and every month. This episode is phenomenal. I'm super excited. Make sure you follow Will Dennis everywhere. He goes by Willie Numbers. Now let's jump into this episode. Let's go. problem. You're the only person standing in front of them. And usually what their response is to that person when I was doing this face to face with sellers was, well, you can't buy this. Everyone is trying. When I hear that, I get excited and I'm like, oh, but I can, and I can figure it out. That's right. So that's typically the conversation that you're having. Yeah. And then of course we brought it in house. We brought the servicing in house,

Starting point is 00:01:24 right. And all that. And that's why our entire model is it in-house. We brought the servicing in-house, right? And all that. And that's why our entire model is JVing with people. Like, all you got to do is go find these things, get them under contract or by the deed with a limited POA. Yeah. And you bring them to us and then you just put on your seatbelt, dude, get paid. What's up, The Entrepreneur DNA family? I am back with another incredible guest. If you are in real estate in any shape, whether you're a realtor or you're an investor, you are going to want to know who he is and you are going to want to know what reverse flipping is. Will Dennis is in the house. What's up, bro? Appreciate it, bro. I'm excited to be here.

Starting point is 00:01:59 Let's do this. So, bro, you blew my mind about two weeks ago. I've been in this space for 17 years. Long time. Two weeks ago, you're like, Colby, I got, this is it. This is it. I'm murdering it on this. So let's just tell the people immediately, what is reverse flipping? All right. So basically, you know my story. I got started about eight years ago and a typical wholesaler. What a reverse flip is, it's buying the deed to a property upfront, not tax deeds. This is straight direct to seller, typically off market, but it works on market too. So you buy the deed to the property and you fix all the hair, right?

Starting point is 00:02:38 For lack of a better term, this is basically your dead deals, your dead leads, et cetera. No equity, negative equity, upside down, reverse mortgages, bankruptcies, pre-foreclosure, multiple heirs to a situation, IRS liens, right? Those kinds of things. You buy the deed up front. You clean up the problem, right, through our company. And then you can choose your exit after the fact. So I called it reverse flipping because, as you know, being in the business, you typically close on the deal. Then you do the work. And then god willing you make a profit if it's a fix and flip four or five months down the road if it's a wholesale maybe it's a double close maybe it's not in this

Starting point is 00:03:13 scenario you're buying the deed so you eliminate all the competition right there yes there's no more contracts there's no more circumvention right and now you're fixing the problem and then you have choice as as an investor that's what we want right it's choice and freedom right now you're fixing the problem. And then you have choice. As an investor, that's what we want, right? It's choice and freedom. Right. Now you have the choice to say, do I want to birth this? Do I want to keep this? Do I want to sub to it? Do I want to novate it?

Starting point is 00:03:30 Do I want to wholesale it? Do I want to fix and flip it? Or do I just want to wholesale it? Yeah. Yeah. So the challenge everyone is feeling right now in the real estate space, competition, market is tough, no inventory. Tough.

Starting point is 00:03:41 Yeah. I would say this seems like the obvious answer. Yeah. I would say this seems like the obvious answer. Yeah. So, you know, even going back to 07, 08, which I wasn't around in the space, but you were right. And talking to a lot of my mentors back then doing deals became extremely difficult. Equity was on the downward, right? There was no buyers and all that stuff. So the deals that worked best in a market like that or in a downward market or in a tough market is creatives. Yeah. Luckily for me, I had a mentor that taught me a variation

Starting point is 00:04:12 of this about five years ago. So I started buying deeds to properties and, you know, we'll kind of get into the story of, of how the whole reverse flipping thing came out. But basically I was already doing that for five years. And anytime I'd run into a property that was just like a dead end that nobody wanted and we just couldn't figure it out. That's the one. That was the one. Yeah. And we just started buying the deeds. And we're talking about, and keep in mind, I'm in South Florida, right? So very expensive values, as you know, 2000 bucks, 3000 bucks, 1000 bucks. To buy the deed for $2,000. So you have ownership in this property. A lot of my deals, done with zero dollars right and you can even tie in the sellers to the background you know to the back end of the deal um heirs work as well yeah so this is a very

Starting point is 00:04:55 effective strategy for like 20 different reasons right and you're also when you say you're tying in the heirs or the owners to the back end meaning you share some revenue with them on the back end sale of whatever happens not revenue but for example if an owner wants i'm just gonna make up numbers but if an owner wants well i want ten thousand bucks that's fine so as an investor we're trying to mitigate our risk right so i'll give you a thousand up front and i'll give you nine once i fix that can i curse on the show yeah once i once i fix this pile of shit then i'll give you the nine. Yeah. And now you're into this deal for a thousand bucks, but you own it day one. Oh, this is brilliant. This is why I'm excited. This is so you can even give an upside to the seller to incentivize them. You want to

Starting point is 00:05:36 work with me so you can get your number. Might get a little creative. This is again, this is like a creative finance strategy. And that's why you know there isn't one right way or wrong way to do creative financing no there's not and you know that's the beauty when you know having wholesale like 600 transactions right and a lot of the the typical stuff i five years ago i just i don't know why but i'm pretty good at solving complex shit yeah i like them. You know, it helps that we have the best team in Florida from a legal perspective, right? The title side, all that kind of stuff. And then we can get into the servicing company and the processing company that we ended up buying in the process. Well, so, you know, for the average person

Starting point is 00:06:19 watching this, whether they're a realtor or investors, works for both, right? Anyone who's in the real estate space. Absolutely. All realtors, by the way, should be an investor. I don't understand why they're not. It doesn't make sense to me. You're doing the same thing we're doing. Absolutely. You're taking like the lower value sticker price, which is the 3%. Yeah. So realtors work with us a lot and now we have a huge network and it's only growing by the day where I always tell realtors, I'm like, don't fall into the myth and the bullshit that they fed you at, you know, Gold Coast schools and all this crap that, oh, it's 3%. I mean, the NAR just told you that you're not worth 3%.

Starting point is 00:06:54 That's pretty much what it is. So I would love to be in a business and I always wanted to be in business where I dictate the terms and nobody can come along and just say, well, you're not making that anymore. Hey, real estate hustlers. Are you sick and tired of seeing potential deals fall through the cracks? You know, the ones they're looking promising, but now they're just dead leads sitting there collecting dust. Well, it's time to change that. And it starts with the science of reverse flipping.

Starting point is 00:07:20 Imagine if you could breathe life into those deals, save on taxes, and boost your real estate portfolio like never before. With the science of reverse flipping, you get exclusive access to our in-house legal team, the country's top loss mitigation pros, and three live weekly calls with investors who've closed over 3,000 deals combined. These are the guys who know how Thank you. you can turn those no's into yes's and those dead listings into deeds. Visit thescienceofreverseflipping.com now to join the community of serious investors who are taking action. Don't wait for deals to come to you. Go out there and take them. Visit scienceofreverseflipping.com today and let's get those leads working for you. If you're like me in the real estate game, you know how wild things can get. Managing leads, marketing, sales, operation, it's a constant hustle. But let me tell you about

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Starting point is 00:09:25 So if you're anything like me, and if you are ready to streamline your investing business and close more deals, you've got to check out ReSimply. Head over to ReSimply.com forward slash pod. That is R-E-S-I-M-P-L-I dot com forward slash pod and get 50% off your first month. Oh, and they're also throwing in a free 30-day trial. So jump on while you can. Trust me, you don't want to miss this. Well, so a realtor should effectively, how many, I mean, I'm just kind of

Starting point is 00:10:06 thinking immediately, if you're watching this and you're a realtor, you should be thinking, how many people have I put a listing on the market that could never really get there? Because maybe it was a short sale. Maybe it was a probate. Maybe you had seven different heirs and we couldn't get them all lined up. So people would make offers. The heirs would always argue. You couldn't get the deal closed deal closed realtor should be the one coming in and either doing it themselves or finding you finding me people that know how to do this and say hey guys i have a deal that this will never sell in the regular mls yeah so we do a couple things on that so we do get a lot of deals from realtors yeah uh either through our own efforts

Starting point is 00:10:44 or usually now and again again, we can get into the details. I haven't done marketing in 14 months, so not an ounce. Uh, so that, that should tell you everything, right? So realtors come to us and it's typically when they hit a dead end and they're like, Hey, got no idea, right. How to do the short sale, et cetera. They're mostly largely tied around debt to some way. That's, great trigger for your audience. But these realtors, they should absolutely be finding these deals. And if I was a realtor or even a wholesaler, right? Wholesaling right now sucks. You've been in the game. I've been in the game. I mean, cost per lead sucks. Cost per deal sucks. Especially in a market like Phoenix or South Florida.

Starting point is 00:11:25 Dude, the cost per deal in South Florida is seven to eight grand. Terrible. That's like if you're good. And you're going to spend a lot to get there. Well, and you might bankrupt yourself in the process. Just to go get the first deal so you can get some momentum going. You also have 25 dipshits to every deal that's offering your seller $2,000 more, $5,000 more. Then even if you get the contract, you got 25 dipshits going around your that's offering your seller $2,000 more, $5,000 more, right? Then even

Starting point is 00:11:45 if you get the contract, you got 25 dipshits going around your back to talk to the seller, right? So now you got to sue the seller, et cetera. If any of this sounds familiar, you know what I'm talking about. Ask me how I know. So once you buy the deed, it's over. You own it. It's done. I think it's hilarious. My attorney is usually the guy listed on the deed. They actually cold call and skip trace him and try to cold call him. And I'm like, he owns it. It's yeah. There's no circumvention.

Starting point is 00:12:07 So what is the first, first of all, go to reverse flip.com forward slash Justin. If you're a realtor or an investor, reverse flip.com forward slash Justin. So they all know that you came from here, but start getting the deals done that you're already working. That is first and paramount. Easiest way. Just buy that website website go there immediately start going now let's start talking about the bigger picture of what you have actually working this isn't just hey go find a hairy deal and that's the deal you want yeah you actually have like two lost mitt reps that have had 20 years of experience in negotiating this is all in-house

Starting point is 00:12:45 in your office working every day yeah so again short short version of the story uh necessity is the mother of all invention right i had a business divorce in 2022 when i did that i asked myself one very very important question i said do I want to rebuild out a massive operation like what I had for wholesaling? And the answer was a resounding no. I just didn't want to do it again. Totally. You get a little older, you're like, no, dude, this is brain damage. It's a lot. So at that time, I had about 23 deeds that we had bought, right? And thankfully, I bought all my ex partner. And this is where the whole story kind of ties in. So as I was resetting and restarting my career and my life and all this stuff, I think I took like a week to think about it, if that.

Starting point is 00:13:33 And the idea was, okay, let's start working these deals. And as we started to work these deals, started making $100K a deal, $150K on a deal, $90K on a deal, kept seven of those rentals, right? Still own them to this day. Didn't pay taxes for three years because I had over 10 million dollars worth of real estate that's what happens when you own the deed by the way you could buy a deed for zero dollars now you have all the tax appreciation so we can get into that but as we were solving these issues we were using these consultants and it was referred to me by a good friend and these guys had multiple years of experience, right?

Starting point is 00:14:06 Working for HUD. And all they did at HUD was write the HUD guidelines. Oh, that's it? That's it. So basically any HUD, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Ginnie Mae, all that stuff, they wrote the guidelines for those things. So nobody understands how loss mitigation or how these mortgages works. And I will give that tip to

Starting point is 00:14:25 anybody. The reason why I went from the wholesaler, right, even though I was in the 1% of the 1% of wholesalers, you know, making 8 million bucks a year to transcending that to, holy shit, now I'm a real investor. And now, you know, we make tens of millions of dollars. The reason why that was able to happen was because I educated myself. And if you understand the game and you understand the rules to the game, AKA debt, legal, et cetera, you can write your own ticket, you know? And, and, and that's, so once we did that, they were so good at what they were doing that after about the 10th one, we decided to buy the company and, and we literally rolled them in house. Um, we made them partners and we said,

Starting point is 00:15:06 look, you guys are doing about 90 deals, 70 deals a year. Yeah. We're thinking a little bit bigger, maybe 700 to a thousand a year, just a little bit bigger. And we're going to expand this. And, and I also knew by being an educator in the space and being in all the masterminds, right. For years and years and years, I never, you could tell me this cause you, you've been in it longer than me. Have you ever heard anyone at any of our masterminds talk about this kind of stuff? Like in detail. So I knew that the marketplace had a big ass opportunity for it, but more importantly, as putting myself in the shoes of that person who was once the wholesaler trying to come up, right. And chasing that carrot how do you make more money well you got to spend more money in marketing right that bullshit which is a myth by the way uh i knew that the marketplace needed it and i knew

Starting point is 00:15:51 that my students needed it so then i taught it to my students and i was like all right well i can do it but can they do it and then they started doing it and a 26 year old kid made 1.2 million last year in miami alone that's a team of VAs and him. So that this is like, it's 25 deals, man. I mean, that wasn't a lot of volume, right? And so specifically to give people like he's 23, six, six, where was he finding these deals? So the deals are just hairy deals. Yeah. And he was already doing some marketing. So these were typically his dead deals. Dead deals. Yeah. So dead dead leo dead we call it we're turning dead leads into deeds that's that's our slogan that's what it is it's pretty catchy

Starting point is 00:16:30 i'm not gonna lie i like it probably take credit for the one but uh you know and it works right so again there's no competition and that's the other thing too that's a big big thing by the way no it's massive so if you've been in this space at all if you've been wholesaling if you've been breaking your brain up against a wall right and you've oh my god the seller has 20 other people which is true especially in an area like south florida dude how would you like it to speak to a seller that not only has no other option right no one else can figure out the problem you're the only person standing in front of them and usually what their response is to that person when i was doing this face to face with sellers was well you can't buy this everyone is trying when i hear that i get excited and i'm like oh but i can and i can figure it out that's right so that's typically the

Starting point is 00:17:16 conversation that you're having yeah um and then of course we brought it in-house we we brought the servicing in-house right and all that and and that's why our entire model is JVing with people. Like, all you got to do is go find these things, get them under contract or by the deed with a limited POA. Yeah. And you bring them to us, and then you just put on your seatbelt. So when they go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin, that's them just giving you the deal to do a JV. Correct. I would tell you guys listening and watching do that because for you to

Starting point is 00:17:45 try to learn what these guys are already doing it's going to take you the seven years of beating your head against the wall it would be impossible because these you'd have to duplicate 21 years of loss mitigation experience i'm working at hud for eight years so it would literally be i mean the way that we understand as a company how the loss mitigation and the short sale works, and that's just one aspect, right? Bankruptcy works, how probates work, our attorney who's in and out, right? The way that we understand that is what gives us the competitive edge. And by the way, the average short sale, if this is a real statistic for your audience,

Starting point is 00:18:19 about 53% of all short sales in America fall out. They never get completed. That is a fact. Feel free to fact check me out. And is there a reason? Do you know the reason? Bad documentation is the first one and bad processing, meaning that they didn't submit the documents in the right form

Starting point is 00:18:35 and they didn't know what department to go through. Interesting. Yeah. So I'll give you a, can I give a quick example? Yeah. So if you're watching this and you're in Miami-Dade, so Cutler Bay, Miami-Dade County, very hot market. This property has an ARV of 800.

Starting point is 00:18:49 There was a guy who I personally know, awesome investor, right? Realtor brought him a short sale. Yeah. Standard, right? Was on the market for about three months. He calls me one day, this is maybe two, three weeks ago. And he's like, hey, dude, I got this deal. We got to the closing table and we got the payoff for the first position.

Starting point is 00:19:05 But turns out that there was a second position mortgage. Yay. Right. And nobody could find it. And he said, do you guys think you could find it? And I said, I guarantee you, we could find it. So within 48 hours, my guys found the second position. Not only did they find it, but they moved the second position underneath the first position. So now they combined it into one payoff. By the way, that second position was $150,000 mortgage. Okay. Now a total payoff of 430 has been negotiated for both because the second new, well, if the first goes to foreclosure, I'm shit out of luck. So nine grand is better than no grand, which is what they're getting. We are wholesaling this deal now for 590 without swinging a hammer in less than 30 days. That's 150 K spread. Okay. On a wholesale deal off of that. And it was only because the agent didn't know how to get it through.

Starting point is 00:19:56 They didn't know how to get it through. Also did not know how to find the second. And by the way, there was a short sale specialist that was helping them to do this. Couldn't do it. So do you guys ever get like pushback from agents or is this where, because I can hear agents already. Oh, I already know how to do that. I already know how to do that. Yeah. Did you say, all right, well then go do it and come back to me when it doesn't happen. So I have two things to say on that. Number one, I don't chase any deals. Yeah. You're either going to do a deal with me or you're not. I'm not here to convince you of my value. I'm certainly not here to waste your time. We're buying two to three deeds a day. Yeah. We don't have that do a deal with me or you're not. I'm not here to convince you of my value. I'm certainly not here to waste your time. We're buying two to three deeds a day.

Starting point is 00:20:26 Yeah. We don't have that time. So I think when you approach people that way, they feel that energy. And let's be honest, part of that is not going to work out. Yep. I've, I've been comfortable with that for years now, as I'm sure you are. Totally. So that's one. Two, there's no reason for that agent not to work with you. And it's very simple. Hey, listen, I see it's been sitting on the market now for 300 days. Right. Yeah, it has. Okay.

Starting point is 00:20:48 Let's take ego out of the way for a second. All right. You're still going to make your commission. Why? Because by federal law, the bank's going to pay you the 3% anyway. That's right. We will guarantee you the 3%. Let our team take a crack at it.

Starting point is 00:21:00 And I promise you, we're going to get this done. I haven't seen a realtor that said no. And if they do, that's not a realtor i want to work with anyway that's right and so is there any like is this a crazy amount of paperwork people need to come up with is it like over the top no no that's the crazy thing so there's two ways to really do these deals right um and each way has two documents okay very simple first way is your typical wholesale contract. All right. Use whichever one you want.

Starting point is 00:21:29 If you're in Florida, use mine. Consult with an attorney, but use mine. And a limited POA. Yeah. A limited power of attorney. Second way is my favorite way. Get a deed, quick claim deed, from the seller or the heirs and get the limited POA. So those are the two ways to do it. The first question I'm having, if I'm listening to this or watching this,

Starting point is 00:21:49 why would they give you a deed? Why would the owner of the home give you their ownership of the home? It's a great question. So number one, they have tried and tried and tried probably 15, 20 times to sell this deal. And they're at a point where they're like, I got no option. So that's where your negotiating comes into play. You can structure. I've structured deeds with $0, right? Structure them all the way up. The most I've ever paid for a deed, by the way, is $15,000.

Starting point is 00:22:15 $15,000 is the most. $15,000 for an asset that was more than $300,000. I made $111,000. I mean, I want everyone to understand even pure economics. If you invest 15 000 something you make a hundred grand back it's like a seven times roas right like your return on your investment yeah and even the better question after that what was my rot my return on time because it took 63 days wow yeah so annualized it's compounded at like tens of thousands of percents or whatever

Starting point is 00:22:41 this is so genius like i can't i'm pretty geeked up so again reverseflip.com justin yeah i mean it's to me this is the thing right now that like this is the game changer it is because by the way there's no economic time where it doesn't work no actually we're not going to get into politics or anything like that but where the market is where the interest rates are where the afford affordability, all the crazy shit show propping up the market that we've seen in the last four years. I don't give a shit if it's Kamala or Trump or whoever the hell, right? Or the fucking tooth fairy that gets into office. It's irrelevant. Like the market will shift. It already is cooling off. We're seeing it even in

Starting point is 00:23:20 South Florida, days on market are higher, right? So as an economy goes into a downward economy, and I can prove it to you, in the state of Florida alone, bankruptcy filings year over year are up 33%. So that just tells me that's one metric, right? Defaults are up by another 25%. We bought one in Jacksonville the other day that was literally a 2024 construction, six month old loan seller just walked away, gave us a deed. We're taking it over sub two. That is wild. And so, and this goes into, you can also even structure just more different creative finance deals from where you already have it and keep it as a rental. You take it over sub two because the loan's good. I mean, there's so many options. This is why I'm saying investors and

Starting point is 00:24:04 realtors alike, they need to be giving you these deals. I mean, they have to start filling out those forms to give you the deals because they're everywhere. And you're talking about a downward market, right? Because that's where we're at. I'll make the argument, and I know you're going to agree, in an appreciating market, there's still divorce, there's still bankruptcy, there's still death, right? There's still still bad loans they over leverage themselves into you know a tsunami it doesn't matter it's basically recession proof for lack better way you're saying it is because i'll give this simple analogy if you're already doing this business whether it's a realtor wholesaler flipper i don't care right Sub two or whatever the hell you want to call it. You are using a screwdriver, manual crank.

Starting point is 00:24:46 I'm coming to you with a fucking power drill with all the drill bits you need to go, and the work that takes you an hour, you can get it done in 20 seconds. Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you? Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking of my database this second

Starting point is 00:25:03 and saying my entire team just scrubbed this database to go over dead leads. And the reason of why they were dead, I'm just going to say, here's the five things we're looking for. Go find all the divorce or inheritance, short sale, whatever the case. And I'm just going to go have them give you all my leads. There's so many myths. I mean, look, we could talk about it if you'd like. I mean, I chimed into your community call, right? 100%.

Starting point is 00:25:24 What was it? Two hours later, somebody got a deed in your community. And then the next day, there was another two guys that got deeds. So again, taught it to newer people. Yeah. More experienced people. It's not rocket science, right? You just change how you're doing the deal.

Starting point is 00:25:39 Yep. But you're also talking to the right people. This business, and this is more like a personal thing for me, and you've been in it, seeing them all come and go, right? All the educators that we're talking about. That's right. The shit that's been peddled in our business is trash, right? It's redundant.

Starting point is 00:25:56 It's the same thing. It's the same thing, dude. Everybody's just saying another variation, right? Novations were a hot topic, right? We know who was the biggest guy in them. He's a good friend of mine. He's a beast then all of a sudden there's 10 guys all my god and there'll probably be 10 copycats i don't know we can do this too and that's great but they'll never have the sauce that we have and the servicers and that company right and and we when i got into education

Starting point is 00:26:20 my model from the very beginning was i want to create a community that's we're jv'ing with each other i don't want to pump and dump and one and done with you that's right most of my students stick rates or community members is over a year yep right so we're doing deals again and again and again because they get it they say well i go find this i bring it back my job is done and i'm always making double triple the average deal size, even on a JV, 100%. So what is the first thing that you would say someone needs to start thinking about, how to think about it, where to go, what would you advise someone today, right now?

Starting point is 00:26:56 I use this podcast as how is Will Dennis going to change someone's life today? You have a huge story. And by the way, if you haven't seen his first podcast, we did together, go to the science of flipping podcast show. We did a straight up hardcore, full story, blown out story, the business divorce, the 7 million, almost 8 million in a year wholesaling that is on another episode. You'll find that somewhere in the comment section below. But what would you tell someone right now, even if they haven't even thought about real estate, like, Oh, I want a piece of this. Sure. What would you tell someone right now even if they haven't even thought about real like oh i want a piece of this sure what would you tell them to go do well first things first join our free facebook group yeah it's a community that grows by the day there's already people in

Starting point is 00:27:35 there that are doing deals right and asking questions so you could partner with somebody and somebody that's already doing it right there's already reverse flipping um secondly you could just download a list right uh just like you would in the regular wholesale but just make it you know go after reverse mortgages right go after things that nobody's going after right um and you don't need much money to get started on that's the key there's so many things i want to bring up so yeah this isn't like some big marketing budget go do twenty thousand dollars a month on pbc no go rip 10 grand a month in tv no that's not what i teach right that is not what i teach this is look this is coming to you from a guy that did that for seven years multiple six figure a month marketing budget right almost and you have the scars crazy oh hell yeah right but and i was proud that i did

Starting point is 00:28:25 that sure but this is smarter not harder yeah why is it a volume do you know people especially on instagram in our spaces educators oh i did 38 deals this month do you really give a shit i don't care that's a vanity metric yeah i stopped tracking that a lot if you did three and you made three hundred thousand dollars doing three pretty cool although through through our market and you made $300,000 doing three. Pretty cool. Although through, through our market and, you know, our, our JV structure, we're, we're buying, you know, about 60 homes a month. So, you know, that's not to say that we're not doing high volume, but this is what I'll challenge any other guru or whatever in this space. Show me 50, 60 deals a month with an average deal size of 70 K and I'll wait. ThereK. And I'll wait.

Starting point is 00:29:05 There's no way. I'll wait. You'll be here for a while. Yeah. And show me how you're building a eight figure rental portfolio through this process with little to no money. Because I'll wait again. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:15 And then show me a community that you've taught that can do that. And that is doing that. And I'll wait again. So again, that's maybe my fuck you piece to the whole community of the educators. And I got no problem with them, but the thing is the same regurgitated shit has been peddled and man, I'm sick and tired of it because there is a better way to do it and to be a real investor. So there's, you said something right there that I wanted to hit on. This is really real estate investing in wholesaling is fine. It has this place, right? I still wholesale, blah. We talked about your wholesaling one. Great.

Starting point is 00:29:49 Sure. But there's a bigger upside of why you want to be a real real estate investor. Yeah. The big thing is the tax write-off. It's massive. Let's talk, talk to us about how this could be a utility for all those people who are like, great. I make a lot of money, but I need more tax write-offs because I also am paying that money out. Yeah. So high level, about every million dollars that you own in real estate, depending on your tax filing and all that, it's probably $30,000 to $50,000 per year in non-taxable income, right? Straight to your bottom line on your taxes.

Starting point is 00:30:21 So would you agree that the average property value in America is 300 right now? Yeah. A little higher, but about that. Let's be conservative. 300 across the country, right? Cool. So if you bought a deed to a property for a thousand bucks, which we do every time we did two of them yesterday, thousand bucks, and it's worth300,000. You just bought $300,000 worth of depreciating income in a real estate asset. That's right. So do that 10 times a year. That's 3 million. You're not paying taxes. You have $120,000 give or take per year tax credit. That's per year. That's right. On a 27 and a half year schedule. Don't even get me started on going creative and going cost seg and accelerating depreciation because now you're capturing way more than that

Starting point is 00:31:09 i haven't paid taxes in three and a half years legally by the way mr irs and that's the reason why that's why everyone needs to be in real estate even for those listening as a w2 employee this is one of those strategies that if you just did for a year one quarter yeah and you do it the way you're exactly saying and they just held it yeah i got i got a lot of guys that are in in our circle yeah that come to me and they're like dude let's buy one of these d's and just hold it i'm like absolutely sure and by the way this also works on a million dollar property you'd think oh i can't adapt that's another part this isn't segmented into the price of the home no and to the point it could be a department it could be a storage facility it could be a commercial mall strip it could be anything yeah and and that's

Starting point is 00:31:54 what i was going to say this is not segmented to just residential real estate this happens on the commercial side totally right there's receiverships there's all that stuff which a receivership is basically a bankruptcy sale yeah with a trustee on the commercial side the commercial guys will know what that is dude this happens all the time people think that sub twos can't happen on commercial yeah it can and you can reverse flip every single one of them right and another couple things like good i want to leave you know the audience with like some good tangible things um reverse mortgages we have been taught in our business oh you can't do anything with them they suck they're amazing i'm telling you in this strategy in this strategy unbelievable and you can reinstate reverse

Starting point is 00:32:36 mortgages it does not just have to go into and this is the secret sauce is you have guys with 20 years of law submit experience correct they know exactly to the gnat's ass how to negotiate this time. I like that expression. To the gnat's ass. I'm going to use that one. But this is why people need to work with you. If you don't know, go to reverseflip.com forward slash Justin. Start working with Willie immediately.

Starting point is 00:32:56 Because if you have these deals in your pipeline, if you're working these deals, doing any marketing, or even just want to get started. Yes. Yes. I would tell everyone, I'm working with yes yes i would tell everyone i'm working with you like everyone should be working with you yeah and so many you know community leaders like you and i have had a great friendship for years right but there's there's a lot of our friends that have communities too yeah that now have me going into the communities right and and we're teaching this stuff and now their students and community members are coming over here and and doing these types of

Starting point is 00:33:22 deals because again if we're being honest, the industry as a whole has a lot of pain right now. There's a lot of pain. Then there's a lot of people making it look pretty and that's cool, right? And you can rent all the Lambos that you want. But the reality is there is a lot of pain and there's not a lot of real people doing real deals. That's right. And the cost per lead, the cost per deal keeps going up dude and look again do you want to talk to a thousand people to do a deal or do you want to talk to 10 to do two deals and so again kind of you've already said it but the a couple lists that they could go kind of target right yeah short sale divorce short sales on market or off market by right you could pivot

Starting point is 00:34:03 them from a realtor on market those are free leads leads right there. There's a free nugget for you right there. A hundred percent. Go do a search in your local market, ping all the active pendings and active with contracts with short sales filter out 200 plus days. By the way, we process short sales in 30 to 45 days. That's insane timing. So if a short sale, if you see a short sale on the market with a realtor that has 150 plus days, just remember my face and my voice, somebody fucked up. And that is an opportunity for you to go and convert that and just give the realtor their commission. That's right. It's a free fucking lead.

Starting point is 00:34:38 In Miami-Dade County, Broward County, and Palm Beach County, so South Florida alone, I did the search yesterday with my team. There's 149. It's just sitting there. And these things have 400 days, 300 days, 600 days. We're picking them up. I mean, you know. You're putting in offers and saying, let us.

Starting point is 00:34:54 But the conversation still has to be, we got to do the negotiating. Of course, 100%. Which they will not say, you will have some dipshit realtors. Of course you will. There's dipshits in every, you know, there's clowns in every service, right? But the majority of them are going to be like, what the fuck do I have to lose? I'm tired. Cause how does a realtor make money? They only make money when the deal closes. That's right. So if you're sitting there with a listing for 300 days

Starting point is 00:35:14 and you're like, Oh my God, what am I going to do? This guy comes along and says, Hey, we can figure this out. We've got the best short sale specialists in the country. At that point, do you just need the power of attorney? Yeah. even need a purchase purchase you you do need a purchase agreement so is there a percentage that you start to offer on these short sales just to keep it a short sale so it's below the bank loan or do you do you treat that a little bit more normal when you go after the short sales where it's like all right where would this deal make sense so that's that's part of what our team does and and they you know we do have deal analysis for you and we're coming out now with a report if you're in our community where if you have, we don't work with leads, we work with

Starting point is 00:35:50 deeds, right? Or with deals. So you have to have something on their contract. I'm not the guy you're going to come to and be like, Hey, I got the seller, go into the community for that. And the community will answer those questions and then you can convert them. Now our team is available for you, right right you mobile notary this that that's part of the the jv structure but if i had to give it a percentage probably 75 to 80 percent of what that property is listed for yeah basically that's where you want to be you you know another common mistake of a short sale is they submit way too low of an offer in and they just and it gets kicked right back that's right you have to

Starting point is 00:36:25 remember too man a lot of these short sale services the way that it works in the country is fannie may is like jesus okay sits on top of everybody fannie may has 30 million loans okay they're the big daddy yeah and and that's uncle sam that's okay that's uncle sam's daughter she's hot and she's got a lot of money yeah okay she doesn't fuck around yeah she doesn't put out for anybody that's right so just for lack of a better term beneath that there's about 60 servicers okay these are phh uh mr cooper shell point aquin i mean the list goes on and on right all these servicers have different investors behind them private investors public fund pension fund i mean not to get so nitty-gritty sure all ofers have different investors behind them. Private investors, public fund, pension fund.

Starting point is 00:37:05 I mean, not to get so nitty gritty. Sure. All of those have different processes for submitting short sales and for submitting loss mint, right? Which is why the fuck it's so goddamn difficult to do and why we're so good at it because we have the experience of 20 plus years to do that. That's right. So what I'm saying by that is you just

Starting point is 00:37:25 need to figure out where, when you tie up the deal, just bring it to us. Yeah. We figured out where that deal fits. That's right. And what the highest, we have about a 70% success ratio, by the way, 70 of all these deals go through. Yeah. The wholesaling market and industry doesn't even have a 30% fallout rate. Like you're a stud if you have that. 100%. And by the way, I'll urge any realtor or wholesaler seeing this right now. If you do, your fallout contracts are these fucking deals. That's right.

Starting point is 00:37:54 The 30%, they usually fall out because of this shit. They're hairy. They're hairy. Yeah. So look, I picked a niche that nobody wanted to deal with. And I said, fuck it. I'll be the janitor. I'll clean up the shit. Turns out shit makes a lot of money. Well, and you put a system behind

Starting point is 00:38:09 it, man. Don't, don't, you know, fool yourself. You took something and said, okay, a lot of brute force to start. Sure. But let me, how do we systemize this? How do we put a structure behind it? So it's a repetition where you can just rinse and repeat all the time that that's why you're able to do what you're able to do now. And I that you know i think uh you know relationship capital is something we talk about all the time right um it i always say this dude to all my students and anyone i meet i'm like amateurs compete professionals collaborate if you want to be a dipshit go ahead go out there and compete no problem and you you might get to the corner you want to be a professional like me and like you you collaborate we collaborate totally you j 50, 50, right? Or whatever that looks like

Starting point is 00:38:49 you go so much further that way. Why would I want to look, could I go out and build a podcast? I'm sure. Sure. And I call it something else that are DNA. I'm sure. Yeah. But you already fucking did it. Yeah. I'd rather come on your show. Come on. And you got the best audience, right? Why would I do that? I would just collaborate with you. And you got the best audience, right? Why would I do that? I would just collaborate with you. Right. And the same thing on the real estate side, you'd be like, well, I've never really done a lot of these. I don't like hairy deals.

Starting point is 00:39:12 Fucking. I already lost my hair. Yeah. Don't need to lose more. Let me just pivot them all over to you. Yeah. And, and that's what we do. And we service your community, right?

Starting point is 00:39:19 We're servicing other people's community. And again, I just want to see people win, dude. That's it. It doesn't have to be that fucking hard. Love that. Yeah. And I'm a hundred percent convinced that based on the feedback and the overwhelming deals, you know, volume that we're getting, this is the future of real estate. Yeah. And somebody is going to watch this a year from now and be like, holy shit, you know, they said this a year ago and reverse flipping is 1000% the new way to do real estate.

Starting point is 00:39:47 It's just what it is. Do they have to, in the purchase, in the example of the purchase agreement, is it your entity? Is it their entity? Who needs to do that? That's a great question. So when it's a deed, we put it in a land trust. The beneficiary to the land trust is our LLC, one of our entities.

Starting point is 00:40:03 And then the trustee is their entity. On the POA, and land trust is our LLC, one of our entities. And then the trustee is their entity. On the POA, and this is a great point, POAs always have to go to a natural born person, not an entity. So another reason why short sales get hit back because they, oh, one, two, three main street LLC, no such thing. Right. So it has to go from John Smith to Joe Smith. Right. So it's usually a member of our team. That's, that's, who's the POA. Why do we need the POA? We didn't really talk about that. We need the POA so we don't have to go back to the seller and or air 67 times if we needed anything signed. That's right. That's why, guys, we're doing a lot of the work on the front end so that you don't have to. And this is, ask me how I know, there's a lot of brain damage of trying it

Starting point is 00:40:41 the wrong way. And this is exactly what works. So another reason why a lot of these transactions don't close is time kills all deals. So the faster you can get the documents, the faster you can go back, the less amount of times you have to fix a mistake, you're going to the front of the line. Last thing I'll say on this, speaking of the front of the line, because we ended up purchasing the servicing firm, we now sit at what's called a Fannie Mae preferred vendor. Most people, that's going to drop like a silent bomb. No one's going to know what that means. Just know that it takes three years of a process to go through that.

Starting point is 00:41:17 And our files go to the top of the pile at Fannie Mae and all the other servicers. So, again, we're not just making this shit up. We actually have real tangible assets and intellectual property behind this. And that's why we're able to do the deals at the pace that we're able to do them. Oh my God. I mean, again, guys, reverse flip.com forward slash Justin. What would you really want to kind of leave every, like if someone wanted to buy, let me give you another question another question yeah let's say you get it negotiated if they wanted to buy the deal after you guys got it how would that work for you guys you mean the the jv yeah um so we would have first right refusal right to buy it because obviously we're buying and we would buy it at fair rate uh rate with them

Starting point is 00:42:02 they could wholesale it to us it's not not a problem, right? A lot of the times what happens is somebody will bring a deal and it'll be, you know, again, let's say, let's use the average 70K, right? 70K profit. Yeah. That's what we could wholesale it for, let's say, on the open market. And let's say they're like, hey man, I would say, hey, I want to keep this as a rental. Well, I'll give you the 35K assignment. God, that's not a problem. Yeah. So it would be simple. If they wanted to keep it for a rental, that's fine. The same inverse, right? You can buy it from us, give us our portion, that's fine.

Starting point is 00:42:31 And you're still getting them. By the way, dude, this is crazy to say, but I'm going to say this right now on camera. And I don't give a shit. Anybody can fact check me on this. I am probably the only guy in the single family space right now with my team that is buying at under 45 cents on the dollar in America per asset. I believe it. 100%. And I'm doing it largely in South Florida.

Starting point is 00:42:59 Which is borderline impossible. Which is like saying 10%. Because it's wild. It's wild. But that is our average it's about 43 43 cents on the dollar in layman's terms right that's what we're buying so the deal even if you did a jv with us and you were to buy it from us or vice versa you are so well below in terms of margin equity you have all of it dude it's wild it's wild the average equity that we're walking into is a buck 50 wow i mean it's it's a lot dude it's a lot you're talking about i've seen younger guys come in here and they were wholesaling for two three years and

Starting point is 00:43:39 you know god bless them right busting their ass and door knocking and this and that dude a couple deals they're like what the like their life is just they buy rentals through it like they dude they got rentals for life i mean they don't have to pay taxes like i don't know about you but i've stroked a six-figure check to the irs before it happened to me one time and it never happened again because i like my butt yeah that's i just do that's exactly right um how do you want to leave with the people what what are some things that you just want to say guys here's what to look for here's what to do yeah go check out reverseflip.com yeah all that yeah so of course our main page is reverseflip.com um i recently just did a free webinar for about an hour yeah where i go really in depth here and

Starting point is 00:44:22 it the the replay is available on that site. Um, we have an intake form, which is also on the reverse flip.com, uh, uh, site. You click right through it and you literally can submit your deal right there. Our team is going to send an email right away. Then a member of our team is going to be in contact with you again. You you're not, you don't have to do anything else past the point of here's the deal yep thank you now you're going to be in contact with us and of course you'd have full transparency throughout the entire transaction totally um but your involvement stops you don't have to deal with the seller you don't have to deal with showing to buyers right 20 30 hey i got all my contractors

Starting point is 00:44:58 coming wow there's 16 contractors yes yes you don't have to deal with that shit you don't have to deal with circumvention nothing like that so reverseflip.com is the main page the facebook group is also um listed on there as well it's reverse flipping the facebook group yeah that i think it's a couple hundred people now and we just opened it up a week ago so it's growing you know probably 30 40 people a day my instagram willie numbers right yeah that's where i talk all this content about it right i post a shit ton of testimonials and not just testimonials like hey i did this and it's great and willie's an awesome guy no actual huds with deeds and with profits and with wire transfers i like to post wire transfers i don't post videos inside a property touring it yeah i post fucking money yeah because that's what

Starting point is 00:45:43 i want to see from gurus right show me what you're making don't show me what you're driving yeah you're shit about your rolex yeah i care about the money that's coming in right um and yeah our community is just growing man that that's what i would say the love it the hairy dead deals that's what you want to go after guys willie numbers on instagram will dennis is his name reverseflip.com forward slash justin give them the deals. JV with him now. I appreciate you being on, bro. I appreciate you, dude. Guys, if this helped at all in the real estate space or in business, make sure you share this with two of your friends. I'll see you on the next episode with another great guest.

The Science of Flipping - The Strategy That Will Revolutionize The Future of Real Estate | Will Denis

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