The Science of Flipping - Why Speed Matters: The Role of Hard Money and Bridge Loans | Michael Iuculano

Starting point is 00:00:00 The deal is in the speed, right? If somebody's selling you their home or even their business, whatever somebody's using the money for that they need the money for fast, the opportunity often that they're getting is in the speed. If I own a business and I say, hey, Justin, I want to sell you my such and such business. And you're like, holy shit, that's a smoking deal. I'm not going to come to you and say, hey, Justin,

Starting point is 00:00:22 I want to sell you my $3 million business for $2 million. Go ahead and take your time and close when you want. Right. It's sweet. I will do this for this, but I want this right. Like, and I want it tomorrow. What's up the science of flipping family. We are back with an incredible guest. Someone I've known six, seven years. He is the hard money man. Michael Ucalano is in the house. What is happening? Not too much, man. Happy to be here in Miami by way of Boca and Scottsdale. Well, you've been selling me on Boca. You and Nicole have been selling me on Boca, so it could be happening. And obviously, I'm familiar with Scottsdale. So let's jump into money. Money has changed a lot. You've been doing lending for 22 years now you're in my

Starting point is 00:01:05 space your space you're an investor as well but you've been lending more what we call hard money which is you know a lot of transactional right so for someone like myself that fix and flips or i do a lot of burr you're a perfect person to be calling for so make sure you reach out to michael ucalano you'll have all of his information everywhere as you're watching this or hearing this. Spell your last name so everyone knows how to spell this damn thing. So it's I-U-C-U-L-A-N-O. If you're not watching this, he actually got closer to the mic just in case. So let's talk about money. A lot has changed since COVID. Yeah. You know, obviously pre-COVID, just pre-COVID, everything. I feel like that's the benchmark now. What has happened since COVID? So let's talk about how

Starting point is 00:01:49 your world and hard money lending investors, how has it tightened up? How has it changed? Let's just like, what is the landscape looking like? So there's some cause of concern, you know, and anytime, you know, you're in a situation where it may be harder to sell a property lending is gonna gonna fall suit right harder to buy or i'm sorry harder to sell harder to lend right if it's easier to sell it's easier to lend and so that's kind of it right so um people are looking at more stuff um more paperwork more things like that they want to know that they've got a quality borrower someone's got the capacity to pay and they're going to do what they say. So as a lender, are you guys actually being a little bit tighter on intaking a new client?

Starting point is 00:02:33 Is it just getting a little tighter? Like I need more financials, more history of fixing, flipping or buying investment properties, or is that still the same? Is it? I think every deal is different, right? I mean, are you buying a home for a million bucks and putting 900 grand down? We'll probably be a little bit more laxed than somebody who's buying a million dollar fix and flip putting 20% down and it needs 200 grand worth of work

Starting point is 00:02:55 to then sell it for 1.4 or 1.5 million. So the deal itself matters. The deal itself dictates a fair portion of the route it's going to go so you guys have a whole underwriting team beyond just yourself that yeah like cross verifies the numbers do make sense this is the right number this is this is the right ARV and then you can kind of green light that loan yeah and I mean we do more than just fixing blips right a lot of bridge loans a lot of cash outs rental properties traditional loans a lot of bank statement loans. So in terms of bridge loans, I think that's

Starting point is 00:03:28 loosely used in my world. People kind of say bridge loan. And usually in my world, what that means would be like, if I'm buying a hundred thousand dollar property and Michael's going to give me an 80% $80,000 loan, the 20% down would be a bridge loan from a private lender. So a lot of people look at it that way in your world. What does bridge loan mean? So the, the real kind of original meaning of bridge loan, um, was really from I own and live or have this house and want to go to that house, but I can't buy that house until i sell this house and it was meant to bridge the gap from a to c yep right um and you're right bridges is very often misty everything is a bridge now everything everything is anything that's not the first lean is now a bridge loan yeah i mean second at least that's how people i think hear it right that's what they think about i mean it

Starting point is 00:04:22 depends on what seminar you went to that's right who came up with what and who found a solution for what. But, you know, second position loans are not, they're not the norm. I mean, if you have the right private investor who's got some money or enough money to do a deal with and for you, good for you. But we don't do a lot of seconds. That's not what i want i mean we've done them but they're like hey you know like we have one right now the house is worth 500k they'll 180 we're giving them a small 100k loan yeah for speed because they're buying another property and they don't want the second they just need the speed yeah so they're literally we're giving the 100k because it's well supported yeah they're gonna go do what they need to do with the money now yeah and then we're gonna refi them back into traditional uh for the 180 and the 100

Starting point is 00:05:10 will be a basically a 300k loan uh to pay off the hard money loan and to go into a new 300k loan so a good example in my world so for example i'm renovating a 19 door apartment uh it'll it's already vacant, obviously. So I'm renovating the whole thing. So a good bridge loan in my world for people's understanding would be, I finished the construction on that. I'd go to you for a bridge loan to get it tenanted, fully occupied performing.

Starting point is 00:05:37 Then I could either go back to you and go get a longterm 30 year loan, or I could go to a bank or wherever. That's right. You would bridge the gap between me finishing construction on the apartment and getting it fully occupied. In that scenario, yes, because most of your traditional banks are going to want... They want performance. They want stabilization, right? And that's the general concept, right? The cheaper the money, the cleaner the deal. You want bank money? You better be a bank borrower, right? And so must

Starting point is 00:06:07 your property, right? They're not going to give you, and you can't write your own ticket. You're not going to get bank rates with a hard money process, right? It's time for people to wake up and realize this is the new age of lending. It's not write your own ticket or name your own terms. Well, and especially, I think there's so many people up in arms about interest rates. I don't care. I think you and I have been on the same page because it's not that big of an issue as long as you have a good deal. But where do interest rates land in the hard money world these days? You know, I know it's, I get that it can be specific to the borrower and the asset itself, but when you, when the most common loans you're seeing right now, where are you guys standing?

Starting point is 00:06:46 I haven't done a loan under like 11 and a half in probably a year and a half. I would say right now we're probably 12 and north. Okay. For true hard money. I mean, there's like

Starting point is 00:06:58 some institutional type stuff that, you know, you might be able to see a little cheaper, but nothing earth shattering or or life-changing different? No, and none of that matters. So, for example, I think I've bought, I don't know, 53 homes this year, and I'm getting 11%. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:14 But if you said, Justin, mine's 11.5%, I'm not like, oh, I can't use you, dude. If you said 12%, I'm not going to. Right. The point people need to understand is hard money for a reason. It's not the long-term debt. Right. I need to math out the equation to say, okay, if Michael's, let's just say 12% or 11%, and I'm going to hold that loan for six months or nine months or even a year, God forsake it,

Starting point is 00:07:36 does it still make sense as a deal? And if so, then I buy the deal and I keep going. You buy the deal, not the debt. If you're buying the debt, you're doing a sub two deal. That's great. You know, pick, pick one, right? Like, I think that's a great point. You're buying the deal, not the debt. And if you are buying the debt, you're buying a sub two. Correct. And that's great. But then you don't need Michael. That's right. So it takes you out of the equation, but it's a different structure, right? Because I also don't love sub twos for this reason.

Starting point is 00:08:03 I'm now kind of stuck in that debt, right? I'm literally buying the debt. That's what I'm essentially buying. And so if I need to bring 60 or 70 or 80 grand to the table, depending upon the deal or even more, well, I can't get that money back out. So it needs to perform in a really high level because I'm literally buying the debt for the long-term point, right? So that money is stuck in that deal. So you're not going to, if you're buying 3% debt, you're never touching it. So that money you just put in. Suck. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:30 I don't like this. So that's not my game. I don't like, now don't get me wrong, a couple bucks here and there stuck in, but I want to make sure like I have a good five year return of all investment, right? So I want 20% return on the capital i leave in a deal so if i leave 100 grand in a deal i want to get 20 grand back every year in net revenue in my pocket so in five years i'm back out right so you're playing with the house money at that point and in many ways um that's that's pretty solid that's a great right but that's my model so i'm

Starting point is 00:09:04 a little more conservative, but it's cause I have the scars to make me that conservative. Right. I mean, you don't get that conservative about always winning. Um, so what is, what is you do residential, you do commercial? I mean, give me the scope of kind of like, who are your ideal borrowers? My ideal borrower is someone who has a need for financing predicated on either speed, need for speed, a credit issue, and or harder to show income or two of those or three of those or some variation of those three. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it depends, right? Like we do a lot of deals for very well qualified buyers that have opportunities where speed becomes the reason, right? Banks

Starting point is 00:09:46 can't move as fast. You know, I used to say this all the time. The deal is in the speed, right? If somebody's selling you their home or even their business, whatever somebody's using the money for that they need the money for fast, the opportunity often that they're getting is in the speed. If I own a business and I say, Hey, Justin, I want to sell you my such and such business. And you're like, holy shit, that's a smoking deal. I'm not going to come to you and say, Hey, Justin, I want to sell you my $3 million business for $2 million. Go ahead and take your time and close when you want. Right. It's, I will do this for this, but want this right like and i want it tomorrow what can

Starting point is 00:10:26 you help your borrower who's watching us listening to it what can you tell them to help you keep the speed because a lot of times unfortunately you're able to perform it's the borrower who's not getting you a document or not getting the thing you're like dude i i could i could have funded this yesterday if you would have gotten me this thing. What can you tell them to like help themselves get your money faster? I mean, the first thing I would tell you is it's funny you're saying this. We had a client even yesterday,

Starting point is 00:10:54 one of my sales guys was telling me about, and the guy's like, we told him when the deal would close. Here's what we need in our needs list. And it's been about 10 days. It took him five days to get us the stuff. So he messaged, he goes, where are we at? We're 10 days in. No, we're five days in because we told you what we needed.

Starting point is 00:11:13 You took five days to get it to us. So no, we're not 10 days in. We're five days in. So to answer your question, if somebody wants to do a loan, make sure you understand that this isn't a handshake deal. There's effort. It's good. There's effort. There's paperwork.

Starting point is 00:11:29 There's title reports. There's potentially millions of dollars. There's regulation. This is not a pawn loan. This is not a auto title loan, and it's not a handshake loan. So wake up and realize what you're looking for is going to require effort. You know, it's funny. So you know I have a coaching program.

Starting point is 00:11:51 I have a lot of people that are newer and they're challenged right now. And I'm, and I think I have a solution. Want to hear your, your thought on it. Sure. Their challenge right now is because they don't have the resume. I do. It's hard for them to get a hard money lender to give them the loan,

Starting point is 00:12:03 either in speed or a high loan to cost or something you know it's it's really challenging for these newer investors do you find that to be true for you guys because they're like i use companies i've used every company you could possibly think of um but it's because i've done this 17 years and i can say hey here are the last 53 properties i bought this year and And they're kind of like, Oh, got it here. Here's your inner. And I mean, is it challenging to work with a newbie? I think it's funny.

Starting point is 00:12:34 I was just talking to one of my sales guys two weeks ago about this. And it's like, you know, there's a lot of teachers in wholesaling and flipping and they say, you don't need money and you don't need credit and that's true you can do it without money and credit but you can't have no money no credit and a shit deal okay you gotta at least have an amazing loan what's that you're not gonna get an amazing loan when you have no money and no credit you're not gonna get someone to lend you like i get 90 money a new person who's

Starting point is 00:13:05 never done a flip are you going to give them 90 money unless they're stealing the deal but again number three right it's some people are doing a deal to do a deal i just gotta do a deal because my buddy did i gotta do it because it sounds cool like if you submit shit it's shit in and shit out right so like there's just a lot of people forcing deals. And I get it right now because the market, I still feel like there's, you know, the sellers feel like it's 2022 and the buyers feel like it's 2008.

Starting point is 00:13:35 So there's this huge line and some people are either undisciplined or not patient or trying to force deals because they have to do a deal. They want to do a deal. They're gambling. They're not investing. Let's stay there for a second. You said something I think is a great subject. Buyers think it's 2008 for sure. I don't. I know what's happening, but most uneducated or less experienced buy it. But sellers think it's 2021, 2022.

Starting point is 00:14:00 Right. How? And you're sitting in the middle. Yes. How do you deal with that i mean most of the time when i am dealing with a deal on a purchase it's already in contract yeah so it's already kind of past that point for me and then if there are refis or cash out type stuff it's it's got to be relevant because it's uh it's not a there's no sale there's no buyer and seller at that point yeah um what do you think breaks first sellers or buyers who gives in and realizes someone's wrong depends on what the

Starting point is 00:14:33 intent of the buyer is if it's a i want to buy it because i want my family to live there my wife is pushing me for it i would say in that scenario buyer gets in. If it's seller needs to sell for, I got to move, we got to down, whatever their motivation is, then the seller. But it's interesting because I think it's kind of a telltale sign right now with people having cheap money that if you're really selling right now, I really think there's a reason why. Yeah. Motivation. Well, you and i just talked about this personally right we were talking about getting our families together whether it's in boca and we'll both buy in boca or we're gonna i'm gonna move back to scottsdale but like

Starting point is 00:15:12 you and i are looking for homes at the same time same price point is there anything for us i mean it depends on how uh picky we want to be or how um i mean i'm pretty picky at this point right like i want what i want when i'm gonna put multiple millions of dollars into a home like i want the thing i want at this point i'm not willing to just but like there's just nothing even out there right now right to your point because if someone has cheap money and the home's a two and a half million dollar home they're probably not that overly incentivized to sell right now because they got to go and get a seven and a half percent interest rate or 7 or something. And the equivalent price point isn't going to be as quality.

Starting point is 00:15:50 It's almost like you're hoping to find, we're hoping to find somebody's second home that they want to sell. Sort of. Does that make sense? Yeah. And that's kind of, you know, it's funny. I almost thought about going in, calling for sale by owners on Zillow and just going down the creative finance path with people.

Starting point is 00:16:09 Say I'll overpay you. I see you want two and a half. I'll pay you 3 million. I just need the terms. Lending is just terrible for me right now. And just do it myself. Like, don't even rely on a realtor. Don't like, just go find the home I want and find a way to make it work for me. Probably not a bad idea, man. I mean, I think that's the market we're in. The funny thing is I think people at that level would be almost more responsive. I would entertain it. If someone came to me and gave me a multiple,

Starting point is 00:16:36 what I think I could sell my home for like right this moment, I think I could list my home at 1.9, maybe two and get the number. Sure. Right. If someone came and said to you, I'll9 maybe two and get the number sure right um if someone came and said dude i'll give you two and a half just give me some terms i will yeah but how long would you do the terms probably not that i mean it also depends how much how much is he putting down so it just depends on the terms that we negotiate but i you know um because i also know enough that i can go get another loan after what maybe do you know the is it six months i would be able to say someone's paying this note

Starting point is 00:17:11 i can show uh i'm pretty sure it's right it's right away because you you've got a down payment right at least so i can show the debt isn't necessarily my responsibility anymore that's my point i think it's like a rental agreement even though you you still own the debt it's still yeah you have a it's like a rent or it could be a lease option a structure release option that i can genuinely show the rent and say hey i'm gonna go buy another home and i can get great terms let's talk about business real quick just because you and i've done this a long time and we have a lot of similar aspects of creating chaos in our own business you've been now for 22 years i've seen iterations just knowing you six seven years from you know mutual friends in scottsdale and seeing you

Starting point is 00:17:52 transfer over and now you have your own thing and your top producer i mean you were just crushing the lending space um but i've also been able to see the iterations of you right we both agree we were the type of personalities that we almost kind of create the chaos because it makes us push harder in business and I'm seeing you borderline red line in a great way not red line in like you're out of control I mean yeah I've never actually seen you work the way you're working pushing as hard as you're pushing head down building what you're really trying to build. But I know that comes from a lot of kicking up dust and creating chaos. Yeah, I think you get to a point where, you know, for many, many years I had, you know, it's interesting.

Starting point is 00:18:34 I didn't even have my own assistant until about three years ago. And yet at that point, I had been in this business as a pretty high-level producer for 19 years prior. And I just really started taking the scaling, the delegation, which I don't even use delegation anymore. I use empowering. Taking the empowering of others really serious. And it's changed my entire business. More so, it changed my entire mindset of what's possible. What do you think you delegate or empower the most?

Starting point is 00:19:11 What have you realized now you are giving that responsibility on to others? What has helped the most for you? Is it just menial tasks? Is it growing the business? What is it? There's a couple of things from somebody who you know very well that I kept getting in my head. He does that really well, by the way.

Starting point is 00:19:31 Yes. And he said, you know, a lot of your men, you know, like amongst your buddies when you're younger. Dude, you're a hustler. That's awesome. Be a hustler, hustler, hustler. It's great. It's great to have that hustler heart, right? But in reality, what you're really wanting to go to at some point is CEO.

Starting point is 00:19:50 Yeah. And that's really what I've been doing. Right. So you've been going from the hustler to the CEO. Yeah. And we've all heard it right. Working on your business, not in your business. It's taken me a lot for For someone who's either a control freak or I got to know everything that's going on, every moment, that was really tough for me to start even the process of going from hosteler to CEO. And I'm not fully there,

Starting point is 00:20:19 but that's where I'm going. So let me ask you that because i love it um i'm more in the ceo role now than i've ever been in my 17 years of doing this yeah but it does come with a lot of other chaos if we're using that word right because i mean just in in the construction side of my business right like i'm not managing the contractors right so now I have a project manager who manages the contractors. Well, if something doesn't go right, then I have to get involved, right? So you're giving up that responsibility of your control. Um, but then you don't have to go do it, which the best part for you and me is you and I know how to go create more money. And if we focus on that and hire great people,

Starting point is 00:21:04 we'll build a bigger, better business. We'll build a better infrastructure. Um, have you seen a downside to it as you're going through the journey of going into the CEO role? Um, not really. Um, because I, I'm so tall vision on the outcome and the, the longterm that itterm that it's like I have this tattoo, right? And it says to every adversity, there's an equal or greater benefit. So regardless, if something goes wrong, it's actually the opportunity for my team to learn. I've literally, when things have gone wrong, like we had some issues yesterday and I'm literally talking to Nicole about how I'm excited.

Starting point is 00:21:46 I'm like, shit, this just happened. This just happened. Yeah, it worked out great. But you know what? It's never going to happen again. I think someone's going to learn faster from something that punched him in the face than something that handed him a check. Could you have solved this issue yesterday? If that person or

Starting point is 00:22:06 the team wasn't in place and you were running it would that issue have popped up if you were already running the scenario and it popped up no right because i would have dealt with it differently it never would have happened but i i love to just like my my my two words are handle it if they need my advice i will 100 be there for them but handle it here's a book suggestion to listen to while you're doing this back and forth from phoenix to florida um buy back your time by dan martell it is arguably the best book business book i've listened to specifically in probably the last five to ten years it is incredible and he talks about one thing that is of note the one three one rule and dan martell talks about there's one problem there's three

Starting point is 00:22:50 solutions you need to come up with and then there's one answer i like that so he tells everyone when there's this problem he says come into the office what's the problem and they say x and then he says great what are three options for solutions? Go think about it, figure it out, come back with the three. And then you will tell me what you think is best. And I'll either think and agree or point out why maybe another option could be better. But you need to go do all the work. Come back to me with what you think the best is.

Starting point is 00:23:24 The one, three, one rule has been incredible because it allows them to actually, to your point, grow. That's where you're going to have these people grow is because you're making, don't go fix. It's like parenting, right? It's like, if you just always clean up after a kid, do they ever really learn? Or do they just keep making the mess? Because you're cleaning, oh, my dad's going to clean it up again. Right? So the same thing. Give them the force of them to do it.

Starting point is 00:23:39 It's rewarding. Like I was even telling Nicole, like, you know know for my birthday and even something else like one of my guys got me a card and it was like the most heartfelt card thank you so much for helping me you've helped me grow as a person you've helped me grow as a man you've helped me grow as a as a like a human yeah and I'm like literally crying like I'm literally like crying like for much of my life it was always about me yeah and it's still largely I'm like literally crying. Like I'm literally like crying. Like for much of my life, it was always about me. Yeah. And it's still largely, I'm not going to sit here and blow bullshit and say I still like myself and growing.

Starting point is 00:24:14 I'm sure if I ask you about Michael. But it's fucking cool to see that my efforts and skills and whatever the hell I'm doing are actually directly impacting someone else in a positive way multiple people and I never thought about that as much I never thought about that really ever before but to see it happening now I think about like every day I think that's cool to see or hear that season I am curious on what Nicole has to say after we're off air but the reason why I think that's because I also was that personality and I was selfish and single for the better part of my 30s and it served me well and I got to be selfish I cared about making money and spending all the money and having all the fun but there is that time where you start to realize the impact you make on others and what you can do for others is more important or just as important.

Starting point is 00:25:07 And the money starts, interestingly enough, my concern of money has lessened drastically. But I've made more substantially because my focus is on empowering and helping in developing others. And from that, I actually make more money. Scale. And it will be very interesting to watch your next three years because I think you're right in that season of like hustler to CEO. And as you grow into that, it's going to take a whole lot of new muscles that you don't have yet

Starting point is 00:25:36 because you now only care about your people. You don't care about the outcome. Right. And that's tough, man, because you want to like, why didn't that deal go through? Why couldn't you get that loan? Or why didn't you know? But you're really like, okay, well, that's tough man because you want to like why didn't that deal go through why couldn't you get that loan or why didn't you know but you're really like okay well that's a part of his growth they got to figure out why that didn't happen well it's more of them the other thing too like i've i've it used to be you'd be like okay i want to do this because i want to make a lot of

Starting point is 00:25:59 money so this was for that right and in the past couple years, it's been all about the process. Like, we just created two ridiculous CRMs. They're not even done yet. We're two months in on each of them, and they're the most ridiculous CRMs. Yeah. Like, all the programming and the intricacies. Like, shit I don't even understand. I don't either.

Starting point is 00:26:19 I'm with you. My guys are handling it, right? So it's cool. It's just I've always wanting to be better right and um so it's it's more the process that i focus on i'll tell you the process for me sometimes going through that process like even right now we're two and a half months in or whatever the hell it is and i'm like you know i tell nicole i'm like oh my god i can't fucking take it anymore i need like a reprieve from it for like three days right there's no there's no middle ground with me i don't like it i don't like middle ground it doesn't work for me what is um now a lot of people would make the argument right now this shows your growth

Starting point is 00:26:56 because i know the answer but a lot of people make the argument real estate is tough right now have you made more money in the last 12 to 18 months than you did in the 12 to 18 months? I had the biggest year of my career in 23. Right. We're not even done with 24. But, but that goes to the point of, I don't think real estate is tough. Are there separate challenges? Yeah. But if you know how to work and you know what you're doing it's not actually that tough real estate is tough is marketing tough is i don't know it's everything tough is he's making hats tough selling hats tough i mean everything is tough life doesn't go in a fucking straight line everything's tough everything has its easier time or downtime what are you gonna do quit go back to selling something else i mean what would you attribute to your great year in 2023 is it experience is it market is it nicole um nicole

Starting point is 00:27:52 takes a lot off my plate um that's great it's kind of like back to the people it's it's it's like her job is to handle the house like we came up with this thing the other day it's like we're the c we're the ce the CEOs of our compartmentalization. I use this, okay? So there's that circle on the left, there's a circle on the right, and then that one in the middle, that's our overlap. Like she handles the house stuff, the kids. She takes a lot off my plate so that I can go be relentless in what I do.

Starting point is 00:28:20 I don't think that is any different in 23 than 24 or 22. In 23, I think I just, I started networking like crazy. I started thinking bigger and doing bigger. I remember we were trying billboards and this one magazine specifically, and I remember, uh, the guy who was the owner of the magazine, uh, we moved over to the magazine and he was at, uh, like a, like a, uh, a lunch with a guy new and the guy new called me and said, Hey, I'm here with this guy. And it was really funny because he said, yeah, this guy just started doing some billboards and magazines for lending.

Starting point is 00:29:12 And my buddy was telling me a story about their story. And my guy's like telling the other guy, he's like, Jesus, it's a down market like crazy. Who the hell is doing billboards and uh magazines right now and then he said my name point was everyone was pulling back and and i i pushed that's the that's the classic warren buffett right right run in when everyone's running out but i i tend to be the same way i bought more real estate in the last 12 months than i did the 12 months before that and probably the 12 months before that. And probably the 12 months

Starting point is 00:29:46 before that. Right. And it's only because I believe the same thing you believe is there's no easy. It's always going to be hard. Navigate it, figure it out. There's a solution. And we're in it. I also make the argument like real estate's the only thing that everyone needs all the time, no matter what. Right. Unless you are a doctor a doctor right this is something that everyone needs to live in right and so we just got to navigate what is our reality right whether you're a loan broker a fix and flipper hard money lender just figure out where the avenue is there's always an avenue to make money and what you've done is you've taken all your experience and the thing i want to talk about next is is you really into networking. So you just joined the boardroom.

Starting point is 00:30:26 Yep. Been a part of it for six or seven years. And I'll tell you, I'm doing the keynote speak in Boston. So hopefully you guys can be in Boston. I'm doing the keynote speech. We will be. And I don't want to give it up because then you'll be like, I don't need to listen to Justin.

Starting point is 00:30:39 You already said it. But I'll tell you, part of what I'm going to be talking about is what you just said, is networking. Because you've done this for 22 years and you're attributing you networking harder or more focused or with more intention in the last 18 months than typically have been in your career and you had the biggest year financially in your life it's to the point where like there are events and stuff and I'm like, shit, that one overlaps. Or like, like we were literally in San Diego, back San Diego, back home for two days for my birthday, to Vegas for a networking group, back for two days. And then out here, it's like, it's a lot of work. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:19 Off, off a camera. We were just kind of continuing the conversation about like the amount of effort that really goes into the networking. I mean, it is, I make it a joke. I know my wife knows I'm working, but like, you know, it's not our typical work. It's not the traditional way of working based around nine to five jobs or in an office or in a cubicle. What we do in our strong suit is people. Yes. Loans are a byproduct. And this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, in my opinion.

Starting point is 00:31:47 If you focus on people, you're going to exponentially make more money. Meaning networking, connecting, hiring, training, the culture of your team, really pouring into it. All is encompassing what I believe takes people from good to great. Yeah. It's focusing on the people, not the result. I've never believed it's what you know. It's who you know. I mean, you gotta, you can't be an idiot,

Starting point is 00:32:10 but I've always believed it's who you know. So there's two great books. And I'm going to ask you a question before I tell you the books. When you set your goals or when you try to figure out what's going to happen 2024 going into 2025, do you kind of say,

Starting point is 00:32:24 I just want to do some more or do you go pretty big on what you're trying to achieve I would tell you I don't know that I I believe I can tell you one definitive one I've always wanted the year next year to be bigger I've never I don't think I've ever said like specifics and they're like, we need to add 37% top line or whatever. Yeah. Um, I just, I just want to be better. I just want to be better. I would make the argument knowing your personality. When you say that, that is not like I made a million dollars this year and I want to make a $1,100,000 next year. So, okay. So to be specific, the thing for me now is a million a month.

Starting point is 00:33:10 A million a month. Amongst all, not necessarily just in lending, but I have other, I have a wholesale company. Have you ever sniffed a million a month? I've come close. Yeah. Have you? Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:21 So I think you could do more. I would tell you to yourself because, so the book I was going to reference is 10x is better or easier than 2x i have the book yeah the blue the blue background with the yellow lettering yeah just at the end of the day like exponentially push yourself harder i mean the 2x versus 10x right like making a million dollars a year versus making 1 million 200 a year it's better by 200 bucks yeah true you know i i follow what you're saying i think now that i understand the value of teams and scale and all that stuff and systems i mean we've literally spent the last three months building out our office to two different crms that are sucking the life out of my entire team to build it out and put in

Starting point is 00:34:08 the specifics and all the AI and all that cool stuff tedious work yeah so it's so I mean it's just um it's a lot of work a lot of effort it's it's draining yeah but I know the outcome yeah And so really the other thing for me too is, it's kind of like you said, the money is really like the way to keep score. That's really what it is, right? Like, hey, if I did more or whatever percentage or whatever is considered actually better,

Starting point is 00:34:38 not just $200 more the next year, is a way to keep score. But what I'm really after is more of the time freedom like i'm i'm here in florida for the past week i'm here another week i have worked like there have been times i've been on my computer i've been here for two days i've never had that before so i think the time to empower others is and and let them uh do their thing and be successful and empower them to be successful while i can still you know be successful as well but get a lot of my time back is equally as important as what you're saying makes me think of a saying it's not the exact

Starting point is 00:35:21 same but like you can go fast alone you can go further together you're in the phase of going further together yes because you're now going to be able to enjoy more of your life make a very very incredible income without having to do the work yourself and put in the work because you're going to do it together with the team and a culture and some in other people again using leverage or empowerment right uh that's the phase you're in which is an exciting phase because you will actually grow bigger without you knowing that's incredible to hear so let's kind of future pace you've been doing loans now 22 years where's the financial world going right now I just read an article I

Starting point is 00:36:00 think it was CNN I could be miss quoting CNN like there's gonna be a lot of bank failures coming up. I don't know if that's reality or not or just clickbaity stuff. But, you know, where are we going financially? I know it's an election year. What's your bet? By the way, I know you don't have a crystal ball. So what's your best guess on that?

Starting point is 00:36:19 The financial world, like lending and interest rates and, you know, inflation. Look, here's something i was going to say earlier and i really mean this i have somewhat of a concept in my head of go for broke and one of my greatest things that i love knowing in my head is that if i lost it all and had to go live in a van i would find a way and it gives me great comfort to push harder and to take some bigger risks, not stupid stuff calculated, but also, um, like you see people and they're like, Hey, all right, I want to do a flip, but I don't want to go past X dollars. Cause I think it's safer. Okay. Maybe it's safer that, you know, at this price point, there's maybe more buyers, right?

Starting point is 00:37:06 But if you got screwed on a 300K deal, you're still going to lose a pretty substantial amount of money, right? So if you did a $900,000 deal, you're kind of still screwed either way, right? So what's your ROT, return on time, like effort, mental, you know, thoughts of everything. The reason I bring that up is what I'm basically trying to say is it doesn't matter where it's going. Because as long as you're alive, you're going to have to deal with it. No doubt. And life goes on no matter what. Evolution is going to happen no matter what.

Starting point is 00:37:41 So I don't really have a crystal ball, but honestly, I kind of don't care because I'm going to keep moving down the line of what I need to do. And if a deal is a good deal, if something makes sense, if it's, if it's helping someone, we're making money and, and we're doing what we're supposed to do. I don't really think about that very much. Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? That's what we get. So that's that's honestly my real answer. I don't like wake up and go God Where's the world going? Sure if interest rates went down? would Would it be easier for people sure but is that easier just for people to live or what about people to make money if all

Starting point is 00:38:20 Interest rates went down. We'd all make more money. That's the concept concept but does that mean we're actually arbitraging or that's just the new standard do you get what i'm saying i actually think the fact that you are doing and performing better in business in a harder economic time than 2021 right um is actually a point to bring up regarding it's real arbitrage but it flushes the people who are just making it because the wind was at their back that's my point yeah it's like hey i want interest rates to go down so that i can just exist easier yeah i can exist easier even if interest rates go down i still am looking for whatever additional advantage or bigger arbitrage even beyond the interest rates going to that point. That's right.

Starting point is 00:39:08 Because you're actually going to do the work. It comes down to the people willing to do the work and fight through the times and find the ways and look around the corners, even if the interest rates were low again. You're still trying to find a way and look around the corners and do more than the average person. If everybody's making money, are you actually making money you're just pacing the times right you're pacing the time it's like hey you know what i bought this house for x amount of

Starting point is 00:39:33 dollars and i sold i bought this house for 200 i sold it for 500 okay so you made 300k in two years three years whatever great well how much was your next house oh it was uh 500k because we bought a bigger house so did you really make money you just pace the time i don't want to just pace the time i actually want to arbitrage and make money above what is just considered existing for that moment all right so you've done better than you ever have and you're talking about networking i know the answer again but you're a believer and you cut the checks to the table to get around the right people absolutely what has that meant to your business to be able to cut checks and i know you've done multiple masterminds multiple coaching programs you've had one-on-one coaching you've cut i mean

Starting point is 00:40:18 how much do you think you've spent to be in the right rooms with the right people in the last year and a half hundreds of thousands hundreds so and what does that mean to your business the the people behind me and the names can you give it could you actually pinpoint like an roi on your spend if you spend 200 grand do you think you tripled that in the last year and a half probably it's probably pretty accurate but the funny thing about it it doesn't it doesn't stop there right because it's a constant thing so technically it's it'll it's like exponential yeah infinite it becomes almost infinite yeah you said it so perfectly because the investment you make today let's just say you spend a hundred grand this year i'm just making the number up if you end up over 10 years making four million dollars from three relationships because you got in the

Starting point is 00:41:09 room and those three relationships gave you this book of business and this business idea and you can't put a price on it and you'll never know too many people are like i don't know if i want to join the mastermind i don't know if i want to get coaching i don't know about it but then they're going to play the mediocre game and we just talked about your drive and push regardless of the economy but they're going to be mediocre forever because they're just waiting for the time where the wind's at their back so they could be easier for them so that they can you know have an easier time making more money and the other thing I would say too is I recognize very early on, early 20s, how valuable that education, learning, networking, because the sooner I started it, the longer in the course of my life I had the benefit of it.

Starting point is 00:41:56 If I'm starting this at 55, 60, great. If that's where you're at, you should do it. At the same time, if someone's 22 right now, 28, 30, you should be doing it right away because the sooner you do it, the longer you have the benefit of it. I just had a 19 year old join my coaching program, 10 grand, 19 years old, right? And I'm like pouring into this kid

Starting point is 00:42:21 because to the fact that he had the credit score to get a credit card and then used it because his understanding of making an investment to be around me and my team of people like I will do anything I can to help this kid be successful just because his own willingness to believe what you and I already know I'm 43 like it took it takes a long time to realize that and especially at 19 I was an idiot it Yeah, it's cool to see it. But yeah, I mean, so the networking is a big deal for me. I'll continue to do it.

Starting point is 00:42:53 There's a social aspect to it that I really enjoy as well that I think is maybe even one of the underlying benefits as well. Yeah, I mean, you create real relationships real friendships friendships that are going to last because you know the the high school friends and then the college friends you fade away because you don't have the same things in common anymore yeah right yep um and so dude i greatly appreciate you being on this podcast dude um and again everyone make sure you are following him where can they all find you where's the best place to find you where can they search you out ask you more questions and by the way if you think we've given good advice if you like this if you're able to take something from it share this with two

Starting point is 00:43:34 of your friends at least but where where can uh everyone find you so i'll make sure they can spell my name first off it's michael m-i-c-h-a-e-l last name i-u-c-u-l-a-n-o um and then just type in my name on on there's there's only a couple of me in the world with that last name so it's pretty hard not to find me but yeah michael uglano on most of the social networks um so yeah cool well i appreciate being here man it'll be great there's a lot of business to be done if you're're looking for hard money lending, are you national in certain States? Where do you, where do you lend? We're national. We mostly focus in California, Arizona, Florida, Texas, Utah, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Georgia. And I think that's it. If you need a great lender, someone that I trust, someone I would recommend to

Starting point is 00:44:23 look them up, ping them, hit them on a DM and say, Hey, I lender, someone that I trust, someone I would recommend to look them up, ping them, hit them on a DM and say, Hey, I have another property that I need a lender on. He's our guy. Appreciate you, dude. Thank you,

Starting point is 00:44:30 man. Cool. Cool. See you guys on the next episode with another killer guest. Make sure to share this to your friends. Peace.

Your Ad Here

The Science of Flipping - Why Speed Matters: The Role of Hard Money and Bridge Loans | Michael Iuculano

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.