The Science of Flipping - Why You’re Not Closing Seller Leads (Even If They're Motivated)

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

In this episode of The Science of Flipping, I sat down with Jason from MotivatedSellers.com, one of the top lead generation companies in the game. We got real about what it actually takes to convert a motivated seller lead—spoiler alert: it's way more than a couple calls and a text. Jason breaks down why 27% of their leads close within a year, but 64% of those don’t go under contract until 90+ days after the lead comes in. We dive deep into real data, proper expectations, why follow-up is everything, and how you can stop blaming the leads and start closing more deals. If you’re running PPC, buying pay-per-leads, or thinking about lead gen in any serious way—this episode is your wake-up call. 🧠 Key Topics Covered: What separates real lead converters from amateurs The “30-touch” rule to get a contract Why 64% of leads don’t close until after 90 days Cost per lead and how to budget effectively The ROI of proper follow-up systems Why speed-to-lead and nurture systems win How solopreneurs can compete with big acquisition teams Why flexibility in exit strategies (Novation, Subto, Burr) changes everything How to treat every lead like gold—even the $30 nationwide ones Tips for getting started with motivated seller leads 🔗 Guest Info – Jason from Motivated Sellers Website: https://www.motivatedsellers.com Email: [e-mail] Instagram: @motivated.sellers --   -- Thank you to Mando for supporting today's podcast! Stay Fresh, Stay Confident with Mando! Tired of body odor? Mando Whole Body Deodorant keeps you fresh for up to 72 hours—pits, feet, and everywhere in between. Grab the Starter Pack and get $5 off (over 40% off!) with code [COLBY] at ShopMando.com. Smell fresher, stay drier, and boost your confidence. Get yours today! -- This episode is brought to you by MotivatedSellers.com – America’s leading pay-per-lead platform for real estate investors.Whether you’re doing your first flip or your 500th deal, there’s one thing you need more than anything else: motivated sellers that are exclusive to you. --   About Justin: After investing in real estate for over 18 years and almost 3000 deals done, Justin has created a business that generates 7 figures in active income through wholesaling and fix and flipping as well as accumulating millions of dollars of rental properties including 5 apartment buildings, 50+ single family homes, and 1 storage facility Justins longevity in real estate is due to his ability to look around the corners, adapt to changing markets, perfecting Raising private capital, and focusing on lead generation which allows him to not just wholesale and fix & flip, but also accumulate wealth through long term holds. His success in real estate led him to start The Entrepreneur DNA podcast and The Science Of Flipping podcast and education company, and REI LIVE where he’s actively doing deals with members. He has coached and mentored thousands of aspiring and active investors over the last decade. Connect with Justin: Instagram: @thejustincolby YouTube: Justin Colby TikTok: @justincolbytsof LinkedIn: Justin Colby  

What's up the Science of Flipping Family? I am back with another incredible guest. Now, it's important because we all want motivated sellers. That is what we are in the game of. It doesn't matter if you're single family apartment storage. We want motivation and we want a seller. I have Jason here with me from motivatedsellers.com and they're the leading industry expert on trying to find motivated sellers for us investors.

Justin, first off, thanks for having me. Excited to be here. But yeah, motivated sellers, that's all we do. Motivated single family or, you know, foreign under real estate people looking to sell. We target the top five categories as our main thing. You know, everything from divorce to probate, pre-foreclosure, tired landlords, and health and safety issues.

People need to move. That's what we're targeting. And it's so exciting to see how our investors are converting. But all we do is leads. Mostly from the Google platform, whether it's pay-per-click, YouTube, some display ads. But everything's going through through our Google platform for the most part and we bring the leads in for the investors. So there's plenty of competition in your space, just like mine, right?

As an investor, I have a lot of competition and no difference in your space. You have other competitors that, you know, do what you do. What separates you in general from the competition? I'll give you a little you in general from the competition? I'll give you a little example in this with the competitors, right a Lot of our competitors. I know them. They're good guys I look at as you go to a street and if you're going out for a drink you can go to a place where there's a lot of bars and Everybody wants to drink there's more people who want to sell and there's more opportunity in real estate

Than there then and investors then there is so we can't provide our investors enough leads we send out about 500 leads a day and we're asked for probably about double that what makes us different we use the entire Google platform our leads start at 150 per lead right now we were just starting national promo for leads just across the country that are 30 bucks that'll probably go up to 50 pretty soon. But we do that. We have exceptional customer service. I'm proud to be a part of that as well.

I'm going to toot my own horn there a little bit. But we try to be super helpful for investors. Whether it's, hey, I need help with the lead. Maybe it's give me a credit from a dispute policy or, hey, I got this lead and the person's motivated. I have no idea what to do. And I'm like, hey, you know what? I have the perfect guy for short sale, for subject two, just give them a call and work the deal together,

work something out. And so we just- So you really are like helping even your clientele. Like, I did a training last night to about 55 investors. And one of the things I talked about is being able to diversify the asset. Because if you only are a one trick pony and do one thing with it,

then you might spend a hundred fidge dollars on lead and it may not work for the one trick you do, right? So let's just say you're the burr investor. You buy it, you rehab it, you rent it, you refinance. And if that's your one vertical, the lead you just bought may not fit for that, right? It may be a better short-term rental, it may be a better novation, it may be a better just straight-up listing.

But if you aren't diversified in how you're exiting, there's a lot of people out there spending a lot of money, but they don't have the skill set to diversify that. Yeah, and that's exactly it. And you know, for the big-time investors, we have a lot of big guys, they're gonna teach me way more than I can ever teach them sure you know I might give them a little hint like hey You should organize this in Dropbox or use you know talk to this guy, but by and large They're gonna teach me way more yeah, but some of the smaller guys

I can give them a lot of tips and put them in the right place. That's just when you talk about differentiation We're just going out of our way to help people yeah Well, and that that's a huge thing in today's world and this is why you know this. So, you know, there's a lot of companies, not just in the finding motivated seller space, right? But there's just a lot of companies that undervalue the customer service part, right? And even in the coaching space, people undervalue like really treating these individuals like they're your brother, like you're really grabbing their hand and holding their hand across the

finish line. And I think that it's crudos to you guys to really put an emphasis on that. What will happen, and you know this to be true, you'll keep people longer. They will buy more from you. You don't need to have the widest audience. You don't need to have the most investors buy leads from you. You need the right investors. And if they keep buying leads, your profitability goes up. Oh, absolutely. You know, one of the things I said right away is we don't want a machine answer on the phone. We want a real person, you know?

And then you talk about longevity. I mean, there's got, there's, I've been working with motivated sellers since 2019. There's guys, a lot of guys I know who I met when I started, who are still buying with us. And then it's also cool. I'll see guys, hey, I took off for a year or two, or I changed my strategy, now I wanna get back in, or I left the company I came. So it's a lot of new people coming in,

and it's a lot of the same people just year after year. And it's fun, because I'll go to an event, and I'll see, oh, this guy I know, I haven't seen him in a little while, or sometimes, you know, Sarah was just at an event in Orlando, I mean, in Phoenix, actually, your neighborhood. And a guy sends me a selfie of me and her, I mean, in Phoenix, actually, your neighborhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a guy sends me a selfie of me and her,

and he's like, hey, look who I found. So it's cool that over time, you start seeing a lot of the same guys and you build relationships and, oh, how's everything going? Oh, you know, I had a little bit of a rough streak, but then I just bought this house, check this out. I just sent you pictures.

I can't believe how we were able to make this deal work. Yeah. It's super exciting. This episode is brought to you by MotivatedSellers.com. America's leading pay-per-lead platform for real estate investors. Whether you're doing your first flip or your 500th deal, there's one thing you need more than anything else. Motivated Sellers that are exclusive to you.

That's where we come in. At MotivatedSellers.com, we specialize in helping real estate investors connect with homeowners who are ready to sell fast all over the nation. Our platform is laser focused on quality over quantity, using cutting edge digital marketing and partnerships with the biggest tech and AI leaders to deliver exclusive leads in real time. Not shared, not recycled, not cold. No babysitting cold callers, no junk data clogging your CRM.

Just motivated sellers, directly in your inbox, phone, CRM, ready to make the deal. Over 2000 active investors are already scaling their business with us. From newcomers to industry pros, our system is simple, scalable, and built for serious closers. Ready to stop chasing and start closing? Go to motivatedsellers.com to learn more about pricing, our amazing return policy, claim your territory and get your first leads flowing today. motivatedsellers.com. Well, treating the people the right way will keep them with you for a very long time. What are you seeing industry-wide, right? So you guys are spending a lot of money

every month driving these leads in and then you sell them off. You're a pay per lead company, correct? Exactly. So I wanted to find that for some people is you can instead of building your own Google pay-per-click campaign you can just go to motivatedsellers.com and buy the leads directly. So I find that to be incredibly useful. I buy a lot of leads each and every month. Super easy industry-wide with with the Google thing at the end of the day the most important thing is lead quality right so I can be super nice to you could like me but if I'm not giving you the results you know it's got to be a win-win.

Yeah. And win-win with the seller too. So we really have to deliver, right? We spend almost $2 million a month in marketing with Google. Makes sense. Which is, which to me is insane. I always tell the investors, we're all helping the Google stack prices. That's right.

You know, but Google sends reps to us every quarter. They go through, they look at our numbers. We're actually pushing data back to them now of what leads are actually converting. Because they're saying we're using a large chunk of what they can fulfill, but they can fulfill more. So they'd rather target the right stuff to help us grow. Yeah. So we just started putting that in place.

What I'm seeing is, you know, I thought people would be selling the houses right away and a lot of motivation. But what I ended up seeing, I did a sample last week of just a couple days from last year and I said, how many of these leads are actually selling a year later? What I found is 27% of the leads sell within one year. Oh, wow. Which is a lot more than I thought. I think it's awesome.

You know, you think you'd have more tire kickers being that you're doing Google platform, but 27% is a lot. But what I also found the 64% of those don't sign a contract till 90 days after they filled out the lead. That's a great kick. That blew me away. Yeah. Blew me away because now you have the opportunity. You get a lead in, you're like, oh man, this person's not motivated.

They want retail. Of course they want retail. Wouldn't you? But then, but then reality strikes him in the face. You know, that man, this person's not motivated. They want retail. Of course they want retail, wouldn't you? Yeah. But then, but then reality strikes him in the face. You know, that hole in the roof is not going to fix itself. You know, that kitchen, you know, you haven't updated it for 50 years. You're not going to get the price your neighbor got. Yeah.

So let's try and find a deal. And if the investors follow up and I think more phone calls every so often, don't blow up their phones, but check back every month or two. That month, three, four, five, six, you're gonna see a huge advantage. Well, the thing that you talked about is so near and dear to my heart, which is the proper expectations based around the data, right? So for you guys to have the data

that you did a couple of weeks ago, this is a couple of weeks old now, is 27% of the people that fill out the form sell within a 12 month period. What that says to me is someone who buys leads, but also educates people who buy leads. You need to nurture these people for a lot longer than you think you do.

You can't make four or five calls or 10 calls and say, ah, man, I missed out on, there's nothing here, they don't, no. You got a runway of 12 months to be nurturing this lead. And so what is the salesmanship? What is the follow-up? What is the nurture that you're doing to do that? Do you have suggestions for your clients?

Yes, I have some suggestions. I'll give you a couple more numbers though. So, number one, it takes over 30 contacts on average to get a contract between text, emails and phone calls. 30 contacts with one person or... Okay. You know, a lot of it's a couple between texts, emails, and phone calls. 30 contacts with one person or? Okay. You know, a lot of it's a couple texts in the beginning, but then, you know, we're tracking all the text messages,

all the emails, some of them might be a threat, but the average is over 30 times you've talked to a person before you get a deal. The other thing we found, going back to the 27%, another 28% list and don't sell. And you think that there's opportunities in there, especially the listings that don't sell. Mm. And you think that there's opportunities in there? Especially the listings that don't sell. You get back to them, hey, listen, how'd the listing go?

It didn't work. I understand you tried to go with the realtor. Hey, let's revisit this. And I think you talk so much about having the personal relationships. Obviously, if you're buying a lot of leads, you can't have a real tight relationship with people, but having a system.

Maybe follow up Fridays, I used to say in one of my old companies. I was like, I don't want you guys doing new work on Fridays, just follow up with your people. Hey, how's everything going? Make a few phone calls, casual, how's everything? If they need your help, they do. If not, you're checking in on them.

That's right. One of our clients, this guy named Luis, he used to send out Christmas cards and New Year's cards to everybody, Earth Day cards to people. Anybody could find a birthday, he'd send them a birthday message. That's great.

He can get a lot of deals from that, but he could probably get about one or two a year. But you already spent the money. That's it. So why not just go get the one or two a year and bring it to the bottom line? That's what people don't understand that I'm very aware of,

but I want people to understand what you and I are saying. If you already spent the money on the lead, treat the lead the right way. So like the way I do my books is I close my quarters out. So every quarter comes, my bookkeeper closes that out, whatever money I spent, whatever revenue was made, the quarter is closed. Now I might've bought a lead in January

that I don't close until November. So it is bottom line free money for Q4, because Q1 was already booked, it's already closed. I spent a hundred grand in Q1, I made 250 grand, that's closed. But a lead from that spend closes in November. That is a free income, that is free money because the book is already closed there. But if you treat it right, then you can actually close that. Like the one or two deals from the thank you card, the birthday card, the Christmas card, is basically free money, because it's so far down the path.

The money is already spent, it's already booked if you're doing your P&L correctly, right? Like, okay, well go get one. It's literally bottom line money to boost up your P&L. Absolutely. I mean, you're so right on that. You know, I'd use a very small sample size. Let's just clear that out. I wasn't going through, you know, years worth of data. This was me and Elizabeth going through PropStream, going through Zillow, and just doing our own research, you know. So we're trying to do it quickly, but I'll wait 27% 27% of the people that come to you and motivated sellers are going to sell within 12 months from the ad, 8% of the 20% and did what?

Been signed a contract class to 90 days after 90 days after it got it. And from 90 days to one 60 years, about 20 something, you know, from six months to nine months again 20 something and then it trailed off a little bit at the end so that first 90 days really is predominantly like that's where you gotta run as fast and as hard as you can to try to get that 60% curvature and then you'll still get them over 40 some odd percent yeah if the first the first 30 days at first 90 days you only about a third of the leads go under contract oh I thought you said. Of the ones that were deal.

Those 64 is all from the follow-up. Oh, wow. I thought it would be, I thought it was a curve that's going down this way. It's actually going up. But it actually kind of like curves up and it's, it curves up and it's even, but it's, but two thirds of it is, is after 90 days. That is incredible. And I never knew that before.

I wasn't expecting that. And, you know, but, but I figured how are we going to figure out how lead quality is? And when I called investors, I'm like, hell, how's the lead quality? Oh, I didn't get any deals. And I'm asking, how's your last 10 deals? Your 10 leads you got. And now I'm thinking to myself, well, that's okay. There's deals in those.

You just got to do the follow-up. But you need to talk to them 30 times. You need to contact them. But some of it's just text back and forth, some of it's follow-up, some of it's just... So just so I'm clear, because I think there's some miscommunication in our industry, not between you and I. Like, contact is when you reply to my reach out.

Whether I call you and you answer, I call you, you call me back, there's some level of exchange. Because to me, outreach is outreach so if you have 30 attempts to reach the person that's what I'm talking about there's this we sent out or the investor sent us I would go through the CRM and I'd be counting I just what how many times do you outreach to Jason to find Jason's at talked okay but but for example if I go hey Jerry how are you and then you all I'm good and you're all good to hear what's going on now I would count each

time I send a message in that number. Yep. Okay. Okay. Now I call that a contact. So the initial time that you either respond to me or answer my phone or whatever, now I have a contact. Now you're just saying there still needs to be 29 more back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying that's what we're seeing on average. Some of them, it's one call, hey, I'll be in the neighborhood later and I'm going. Yeah. Other ones are, you have your follow-up emails

that are going out every month, you've got a text message chain back and forth, you do an appointment, you call them back three months later, you do another appointment. So all of it's gonna be different, depends on the seller and what they need. No, of course. On average, we're seeing over 30 contacts

get those contracts. So this is important, just how do you make your client be better? Help them understand the numbers. Help them understand the expectation of what happens when motivated sellers give you leads. Well, you're buying them, they're not giving them to you, but you buy the leads from motivated sellers. Don't have improper expectations. Oh, I bought 10 leads, I got nothing. This doesn't work. Absolutely not. How many times do you call them? How many actual contacts did you make? How many back and forth exchanges? How many offers did you make? Like there's so much more that goes into it than just the lead. Oh, no doubt about it. And unfortunately, the lead providers like yourself and your industry. Unfortunately,

you end up getting the blame. All of these aren't good leads and they're not motivated sellers. They're not motivated to second, fair. They want retail price. I got it. But again, nurture that sequence. We're in a time in event business. So like you just said, you have a client that sends out Christmas cards.

It's an event. There's something happening that could trigger, hey, this guy's been reaching out to me all year long. I have, you know, Christmas, I just lost my job, this, that, and the other. I need to bring back some money. I'm going to sell my home. Well, that, that postcard triggered the event that happened to the seller. That's, yeah, that's exactly it. You know, we just, once you get the data and you have your systems, it changes

everything and what we see is a lot of the investors who go on the appointments do really well. Yeah. You know? Person to person. Person to person. But we have so many guys who do virtual in other markets. They also do well. But when you start getting into the virtual, when you start getting into the larger companies,

it's all the systems, it's all the follow-ups, and that's what makes them successful. They say they want to talk to a person originally, and then they just systems, it's all the follow-ups, and that's what makes them successful. They say they want to talk to a person originally, and then they just want to go through and follow up their sequence. Everybody's trying to get the deals faster. You're spending the money on your ads, you want a quick return.

But if you can convert a few later on, it changes everything. Everything. As many of you know, I'm constantly on the move, juggling multiple businesses, traveling, and ensuring I get my morning workouts in. Staying fresh isn't just a preference, it's a necessity. But let's face it, after back to back meetings, juggling two kids at home and the hustle and bustle of everyday life, body odor can become an issue.

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Use code COLBY at shopmando.com. That is S-H-O-P-M-A-N-D-O.com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Smell fresher, stay drier, and boost your confidence from the head to the toe with Mando. I can't tell you how many times, the most I've ever been in front of my skis, when I say in front of my skis, I've spent money on marketing and the money hasn't come back yet. So the most I've ever done that

is about a quarter million dollars. It was, I was like, oh my God. But every time, I'll tell you every time, if you're listening, it always comes back over time. Where people get crushed is when they get in front of their skis, it could be 25 grand, could be a hundred grand, or even in my case

was quarter million dollars. And they stop marketing and they stop working the leads. And that combination is deadly. That's where people lose a lot of money, is because the leads are already in your database. And if you give up on working those leads, we do deals all the time that the lead is six months old, the lead is 12 months old, the lead is two years old,

and we'll close them because we have a nurture sequence. And again, that money has already been spent. So go get the money back, right? Cover your cost. And so I would encourage everybody to realize like, A, be aware of your financial situation. But also, you know, you need to understand the KPIs that Jason is talking about of how are you going to go get those deals?

How are you going to be able to monetize and get your money back? Because unfortunately people stop spending money and they kind of get frustrated and quit and that's where they're going to lose money. Absolutely. I'll tell you something too though. Let's not discount those. A lot of people do put it in for an urgent need. Yeah. Right. And for those, you know, you you wanna get on those right away. So we talk about the nurture sequence, obviously super important. Other thing is speed to lead. So if you're getting a lead in, you should be calling. You're eating dinner, excuse yourself,

make the initial phone call. Absolutely. You know, you're in the car, pull over to the side of the road, don't kill anybody, make that phone call. That's right. I tell my team, like, I don't care about weekends. Like not in our space of real estate. I think there's a lot I tell my team, like, I don't care about weekends. Like, not in our space of real estate. I think there's a lot of people who like,

oh, I own a business to have more time. I gotta shoot all you guys straight. Owning a business actually goes the other way for a long period of time, is you actually have less time. And because, like, I was talking to my general manager the other day, is some leads came in rather late at night my time. Now, I'm the East Coast and he's in Arizona still.

So I literally saw the leads come in and I called them and I said, you need to go get these. Not for any other reason, but I knew he would do it. Right. Cause it was what? Nine o'clock my time. So it was seven o'clock in Arizona or maybe it was six o'clock, six or seven, depending on the, well, my rest of my team would have been like, I mean, it's six o'clock, right? maybe it was six o'clock. Six or seven depending on the... Well, my rest of my team would have been like, I mean, it's six o'clock, right?

Like I'm done for the day. And I'm like, fuck, no, you're not. Like I just spent money on that lead. Go get that lead. I'll tell you something funny. Josh and Tiffany say that a lot of the leads that they see close were from the nighttime. I didn't take it, track any data on that.

100%. But, you know, think about it. If it's keeping a person up at night if They're worried about it now I'm not saying call somebody at 2 a.m. If they do that, but maybe a text if they fill out a form Yeah, you know but be on top of it. Let them know you care. Hey, let's chat tomorrow. You want to talk now I can most of it doesn't come in at that time. You have more normal, you know normal hours But if yeah, somebody's doing a late at night give them a call. They obviously have a concern

That's why they're filling it out. There's no doubt. And the weekend's the same. I think there's a lot of, and I don't have my phone on me, but I think there's a lot of people that need to get those notifications on their phone. Because as the business owner, and your clientele is made up of what?

Is it kind of a mesh of like real businesses that have acquisition teams and the solopreneur who's doing it themselves? So we have a very wide spectrum. We have, you know, big time acquisition companies, a couple funds, and then we have, you know, one-man shops where I'm telling the guy, hey man, you need a VA. You got to be talking to people. You're a great person, but stop doing paperwork. Yeah. Well, but I would tell that same person, is you better be seven days a week, you know, 24 seven because your lead comes in on Saturday at, you

know, 2pm in the afternoon when they're out with their family, like you said about dinner, hey, excuse me, guys, I gotta let me just make this call real quick. Because you spent money on that lead. And that lead speed to lead you just said it like there is no like, oh, it's my daughter's birthday, I'm gonna just not like to me, these are some of the sacrifices of being a solopreneur a one-man shop Until you have leverage Like you need to get on that lead like what's your average cost per lead? So our average cost for leads about 175

And people by the way, our minimum now is 150 But I'll tell you one more part about that but you can turn off the system anytime you want. So if it's your daughter's birthday, you can stop the lead. You can just put pause for a couple hours. I have a guy in California who always turns off when he's in traffic. I'm thinking it's the best time to call, but probably better he's not talking on the phone. But you can turn it on and off whenever you want. You have full control of that. Yeah. So I feel like I just had my daughter's birthday and if I was on the phone there, I would have got a lot. I agree, listen.

Not only for me, parents too, you know? Yeah, so you could turn it off, turn it back on, but if you're on and you get that lead, like you're saying, you just gotta get on that. But here's where I'm kind of a psycho, because most people are gonna do what you're suggesting. They're gonna turn it off. Oh, it's Saturday, I have a family day. And I say that because to do what you're suggesting. They're going to turn it off. Oh, it's Saturday. I have a family day.

And I say that because to some extent you're right. Like we all do this so we can have more time with our wife and our children. So yes, you should be present, right? But the reality is if you know half of the community is pausing it and you didn't, you're likely getting cheaper leads, better leads, and you're going to be first to the lead because Jason paused his, I got the lead, now I call him right away.

You might end up being able to find that lead somewhere else or whatever, but I'm first to that lead and if I'm good at my job, I'm gonna get the deal, right? And so I'm just a little bit more of the psychos, like, dude, this is a seven day a week business. And until you're at a point of leverage, which I love the idea of at least having a, there's companies, I haven't used them in a long time. What are some of the like Ruby something call Ruby?

They're just answering companies. Okay. So if someone comes in. You don't want to do that with these leads. Right. What you're saying is right, once you get to the second part, once you have, you start building your company, you have a second person who can do the calls. Yeah.

Think of it like doctor shifts, right? You're not, you're not you're not gonna get 50 leads from us a day I love it right if you think about a county right so we're in Miami here we might get one or two or three leads a day max and that's going to all the investors yep maybe it's a few more if it's a busy day or whatever but you're not getting that many so when they come in you got to treat them like gold yeah and that's why I'm saying what I'm saying is you know me and my wife have a pretty solid understanding.

I'm not necessarily in that game of like dealing with the seller leads, but I have multiple businesses that run at a pretty high level. And when I have to take a call, I try not to, but if I have to take a call, like it is what it is, right? Listen, do you like this life, the real estate lifestyle to me is,

so my background is a CPA. Okay. And what I saw is the people who had wealth longer than just, you have your doctors, you have your business owners, you have your whatever talents, NBA player, but the people who had wealth long-term in the kids and after something happened,

I had a magazine executive, for example, the way the dinosaurs in magazines, I feel like, but she owned real estate in New York City. So she was fine. All of a sudden, she's not making the same living, but she's okay as opposed to it. So real estate gives you that lifestyle. It's not a quick thing, but it gives you that easier lifestyle, more time to be with the family.

But that being said, when you have to take a call, you have to do it. And you know, you guys are great because of a lot of different things, but giving some flexibility on when leads come in is a really big highlight, right? Because sometimes you don't have a choice. Now, the other, there's competition that you guys have that you could just buy a lead outright right then and right there. And that's fine. But like, I just like the ability to just have leads flowing. Do you guys agree giving all the data you guys have? I take a wider range shot and what I mean by that is I'll give you an analogy.

I believe instead of being very specific in one corner of the hemisphere like only focusing on deals that are pre-foreclosure doing direct mail hitting pre-foreclosure only it's very tight, very raw. You can have big rips. You might be able to make a couple million dollars a year doing that. My philosophy is I want wide. I want the whole Miami-Dade County lead opportunity for the whole damn county.

And I want as many leads as possible. Because my belief is I can, so if I gave you five basketballs right under the basket and I have a hundred basketballs at half court, who has a better chance of making six shots? Obviously you. Because you can't even hit six. Yeah, exactly.

Right? And that's my philosophy is like, fine, I am much further away. I understand that. But I have a hundred shots on goal. I'm gonna bet I can make six before you, right? And do you have any data kind of supporting like the more lead flow, the better off you're gonna be?

I don't have any data like that. I haven't tracked it, but I do believe in lead flow. Some people say, listen, let me own my market, right? Others are like, hey, listen, I'll take any market in the Sunbelt or any market in upstate New York or Northern California, or, you know, take 92 cities or counties that have a population over, I think it's 100 or 200,000, and they'll do anything in there because there's enough demand.

Yeah. So I like the wider thing. For me, you know, we do a bidding system, so some leads can get expensive. San Diego gets expensive from time to time. But for me, I'd rather spread it out, get leads at 150, and have, like you said, more shots. That's right. And then to further on that, you want to have more ways to do a deal.

So if you're just doing a wholesale, everybody would know equity you can't work with anymore. If you're just doing subject two, you're not going to be able to do all the deals. We have a lot of guys in Texas who do subject two. They love our leads, but it doesn't work if that's all they're doing. If they can to do all the deals. We have a lot of guys in Texas who do subject two. They love our leads, but it doesn't work if that's all they're doing. If they can wholesale a few, if they can buy a few and flip them, now all of a sudden the numbers just back out so much better than they're getting those three, four X returns.

That's right. As opposed to creating a note and just breaking even. Yeah. People who want a higher number, Novations. You know, it's phenomenal doing those because now all of a sudden you can get them a higher number and still make a fee and everybody's happy. Yeah. So the more flexibility you have and the more things you can do in the wider range, the more successful you're going to have to be. And listen, it takes more training. You have to learn more, right? You need a good coach. You need a good mentor. You need to read. A little bit of YouTube university probably doesn't help. Sure.

You know, but if you're willing to expand and improve yourself, the opportunities are there and this is not that hard. Well, this is where I tell people like your type of clientele is on a newer side, right? So I built a community called reilive.co. We talked about it a little bit earlier. The whole point of that community is I'm not charging 10 grand. I'm charging $200 so I can help your clients actually convert the leads, right? So then they're buying leads from

you and I'm helping them convert them, because I'll actually comp the properties call the homeowners, and they'll watch me do it. Versus me just saying, oh, here's what you should say, here's your script, go do it. Right. And the whole point being is I think there's a disconnect right now specifically on the newer side, right? Your clients who are, you know, the Tiffany and Jot, like they're dialed in, they have operations, there's plenty of clients you have like that.

But the people who are out there buying leads and spending money, I've been a coach for over a decade. You said, the reason why this comes up is you talked about someone should get a coach, everyone should, but you don't have to pay 10, 15, $20,000 for a coach. There are communities like reilive.co that I'm happy to help you work the leads you're getting from motivatedsellers.com. Like buy it from Jason, go to motivatedsellers.com right now, buy leads, and then I'll help you work it until you have the confidence enough to just like,

go. Right. To me, that's like amazing mentorship, right? You've been there, you've done that. You know, they're going to learn from doing, to me, like no, no mentorship, right? You've been there, you've done that, you know, they're gonna learn from doing. To me, like no good deal goes unfunded. Maybe that's not true, but maybe it's no great deal. But when you have coaches,

when you have people in your corner, when you have mentors, right? Whether it's 200 bucks or 10, doesn't matter how much they're spending on it. When they have people who've been there and done that, it's just another fresh set of eyes. And then plus they're learning from you. So, you know, I've learned real estate

from a lot of people, right? Every single person, there's a lot of things I disagree with, but every single person I'm extremely grateful for. Sure. So I've learned so much. And then when I talk to investors, I'm like, hey, you should do this or talk to this guy.

Now all of a sudden it's come in full circle because I'm able to pay it forward. Yeah. And that lead that they spend money on that they're not happy with, all of a sudden, hey, this is an opportunity for you. This isn't just a waste of money. And now that seller's like, oh man, you solved my problem. So the whole idea is that just everybody's going to win from it.

Everyone. And you bring up the point that we've talked about, but like if you understand how to be dynamic and how you exit the potential of the property, a lot of people use it in a very specific language. You got to look at the potential of the property. A lot of people use it in a very specific language. You got to look at the potential of the property. If you understand the potential of the property, then you understand whether you're going to novate it,

whether it's a wholesale deal, fix and flip, long-term rental, short-term rental, right? Or you do house hack, right? Is a house, um, pad split. Like there's so many different diverse ways to find the potential. And so pigeon holding yourself to do some Mayo formula, like 60% of ARV minus wholesale fee minus rehab, you're just going to convert. Like if you say one ad every 30 is what you're seeing on average or whatever it is.

We see about one out of 15 leads will come to a deal. Right. So the person who's a one trick pony will be like one out of every 30. Yeah, but that's not, it's not full in everything because if you look at your burr guys, I was just talking to one of the guys yesterday, I was like, listen, you're not going to get one out of 15. I'll tell you you're not going to do that good. And he's like, all right, let's work some numbers.

And we ended up saying, let's be conservative. It's one out of 40. We just figured out. For the burr burr model for the to get a deal Yeah, and it would cost them six grand for the deal and we started looking at it We're like wow way how much equity did you get out of that? Oh, you got seller financing for you all you have cash flow for it So that might take you a little bit of time to recoup your money in terms of cash flow But his whole thing is building wealth and having rentals long term. And I'm like, you're not going to

want to support acquisition. Think about what you just said is six grand to get his deal. So 40 leads one burr. Let's just say he buys it for 100 grand and making it up. So say, look, I'm buying you for 106 grand. Yeah, it's a part of your acquisition costs. Exactly right. Right. So you're remodeling because buy rehab it. So your rehab is 50 grand. Fine. Put the six grand on the rehab budget. So you're remodeling because by rehab it. So your rehab is 50 grand. Fine. Put the six grand on the rehab budget. So you have a $56,000 rehab budget. Like the point being is it's a cost to the deal.

We all have costs, whether it's rentals, fix and flips, wholesales. So you just got to figure out how to attribute the cost. That's it. And if people understand how to attribute the cost, your background's being an accountant. It's not that hard. I can underwrite a deal and say, okay, for every six grand I spend on buying a rental, it now is like, how fast can I spend six grand? Because it's not very expensive. And you look and you compare it like the MLS.

Listen, realtors are super important, help me get into my house with my wife and my kids. Sure. You know, they screw up a lot of deals. Sure. You know, and it annoys the seller and the buyer because you have more people in the way, right? You want to have it kind of shake out a deal, figure it out. And here you're talking directly, hey, what do you really need?

What do you really want? You know, realtor's pitch is, hey, I'm going to sell it for the most money the fastest. Yep. But is that always what the client needs? You know, do they want to wait for the listing, the pictures, and all that? Here you're talking directly, hey, do you really need the most money the fastest. Yep. But is that always what the client needs? You know, do they want to wait for the listing, the pictures and all that? Here you're talking directly,

hey, do you really need the most money or do you need a way out of your situation? Yeah. Do you need, okay, you want to get the most money, but do you need it right away? Well, no, I just need to live off of it. So maybe I can give you more over time. And when you're talking directly to a person,

you just get rid of that whole telephone game of mixed messages and everything. Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's really important. I mean, motivatedsellers.com by the way, again, it's motivatedsellers.com, but finding the ability to nurture the contact is huge. Talk to us a little bit about what you guys are finding with the best sales guys in the space, right? If you're able to get the lead and then you're also good at the negotiation part the numbers I'm assuming are going down

here's about 10 the best sales guys the best sales guys are not the best sales guys mm-hmm right and I don't know if I'm contradicting myself but I was just at the car dealership a few months ago and those are true and true sales guys through and through those guys sell if I if I if I had a car dealership I just go in there and hire everybody. They're phenomenal. In our space, it's different. Be a problem solver, be empathetic, understand the person.

I'm very big on seven habits with Stephen Covey, right? Seek to understand and be understood, right? So if you're understanding a person, the numbers will work themselves out. The deal will either work or it won't, right? You do the best you can. They're gonna try to do the best you can, you can work out a deal if there's a deal to be made.

That's right. But if you understand a person, and this is what we're seeing with investors is, you understand the person, you understand what they want, then you negotiate, you can figure something out. But to me, the ones who are the most successful are the ones who take to understand the client's situation. That's right.

Yeah. Is there anything that you feel like listeners, viewers, who really understand about motivatedsellers.com? I just believe, you know, we need to find more opportunities. And motivatedsellers.com is a great place for us as investors to find those opportunities. There's two ways to this I give two messages here about a court We have 1800 active investors a quarter of them are those big guys, right? But the other 75% are five or less people and a lot of them are one in two-man shops Or a guy who's doing it after work, right?

If you're new in the industry, we just started that nationwide leads use that use those as practice. It's 30 bucks Now it's gonna go up take advantage of that Get some practice. Hey Justin help me underwrite this deal in you know, a thousand miles away from me, right? Right But now all of a sudden you're practicing you're learning the industry. You're learning the numbers for a lot less cost Yep, right If you're in an area and you want to get leads, set a monthly budget. Maybe it's a thousand, maybe it's 5,000, maybe it's 12, whatever it is, go and try and see a bunch of leads.

If you're one of the bigger guys, dude, buy into us for a couple of months. Yeah. Go in and put an effort in. And what do you tell people about like how long should they test you guys out? Right. I mean, I have my answer. But what it like, because I know I hate when people go to motivatedsellers.com, they buy some leads for a month. Oh, I didn't really get much or whatever.

Not really. That's not a runway. You got to give yourself a runway of really trying a marketing channel. So last year I saw there was 200 investors who bought one lead. And it drove me crazy. Yeah. We had, you know, 2000 something, I don't remember the number, bought leads from us, but 200, so 10% bought one lead.

I'm like, dude, don't waste your money on that. I'm sure maybe one or two of them got a deal and maybe. But they would come back if they did. Yeah, I don't know, but the ones that are buying a lot, it works, I'd say, to me, I would say buy 30 leads. That would be my number and see what the numbers show. So give yourself a budget of 30 leads. 30 leads. And you're averaging $150 a lead on average, right? Right. $4,500 bucks. Then I think that's a fair runway and the reason why I say that is because I

believe if you're gonna do a marketing strategy at a bare minimum, minimum, minimum, minimum, you got to run for 90 days, right? Continually spend into it, continually bring in leads and focus on your nurture and follow up. I bet on your 90 days, if people can stick out 90 days, even if they're at the minimum, because the leads can be more than 150, but if they go 90 days, way more than not, and this is my bet, we'll be really happy with it.

Now they might not go full time with a huge budget, but they're going to be like, I want these leads, I'm going to people, I'm getting deals. Well, and because at the end of the day, if you did it seriously, you're going to have real lead flow every day, every week, every month, and then it's just a matter of conversion. Are you able to convert the deal and convert a list or lead? Are you able to convert the deal and convert a list or lead and that's why I tell the people like When we go into any new marketing channel, so probably the newest I'm aware that we've tried was TV

Okay, so I've never done TV This year we did TV or end of last year. But it's so q4 of last year We started TV. I was like, dude, everyone, you know, people are doing it. They're finding success. Let's try TV out. I've done everything PPL, PPC, direct mail, cold calling floors. I built my like I've done it all. I've never done TV. So I tried that.

That's the most recent like marking strategy. I said if I can go 90 days and or up to six months and break even. It's a keeper. The reason being is because then I know over a longer runway, all those leads will turn into profitability, right? Now, not everyone has the luxury of, I'm 20 years in this business, right? And so I just, I have a team, I have people, like I'm different than a lot of people.

But how I look at it is similar to how I believe most people should. Go do motivated sellers.com for 90 days. If you break even from profitability point, keep going. Because now you still have a database of leads that you can continue to work while also bringing in new leads. That's where the profitability comes because you're bringing in the old leads that convert and still breaking even on the new leads. Over time,

you look back at the end of your year, you will be up at a minimum of three X because there's four quarters. So if you bring it break even on quarter one and profitable for three quarters, you're going to be at a three X almost every time I guarantee it challenges getting them to go for 90 days. That's it. Now I'll tell you, I want to see people making money in the first 90 days. That's it.

I want more gravy after the first 90, but in that first month, I want to see some deals. I got to tell you. I'm, I'm. That's right. You know, I. But it's okay to me. I would say I would make the argument make money. It doesn't have to be profitable, right?

If you spent three grand, you don't need to make nine. Like if you did a deal and you collected a check and it proved system and builds confidence, then you got to keep going. It works. So just get more efficient and better at it and keep going back to motivatedsellers.com. Definitely, definitely. Dude, I appreciate you being here thank you so much for

having me anybody wants to reach out I'm Jason at motivatedsellers.com yeah happy to talk to everybody and you know it's so much fun this industry and I appreciate being here of course links are gonna be all below here on YouTube you'll see all the links go to motivatedsellers.com this is Jason I'm Justin if this was cool or you think someone needs to go check out here on YouTube, you'll see all the links. Go to motivatedsellers.com. This is Jason, I'm Justin. If this was cool or you think someone needs to go check out motivatedsellers.com, share it with at least two of your friends.

We'll see you on the next episode.