The Science of Flipping - Why You’re Not Closing Seller Leads (Even If They’re Motivated) | Jason Sager

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

In this episode of The Science of Flipping, I sat down with Jason from MotivatedSellers.com, one of the top lead generation companies in the game. We got real about what it actually takes to convert a motivated seller lead—spoiler alert: it’s way more than a couple calls and a text. Jason breaks down why 27% of their leads close within a year, but 64% of those don’t go under contract until 90+ days after the lead comes in. We dive deep into real data, proper expectations, why follow-up is everything, and how you can stop blaming the leads and start closing more deals. If you’re running PPC, buying pay-per-leads, or thinking about lead gen in any serious way—this episode is your wake-up call. Key Topics Covered: What separates real lead converters from amateurs The “30-touch” rule to get a contract Why 64% of leads don’t close until after 90 days Cost per lead and how to budget effectively The ROI of proper follow-up systems Why speed-to-lead and nurture systems win How solopreneurs can compete with big acquisition teams Why flexibility in exit strategies (Novation, Subto, Burr) changes everything How to treat every lead like gold—even the $30 nationwide ones Tips for getting started with motivated seller leads Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What's up, the science of flipping family. I am back with another incredible guest. Now, it's important because we all want motivated sellers. That is what we are in the game of. It doesn't matter if you're a single family apartment storage. We want motivation and we want a seller. I have Jason here with me from motivatedsellers.com and they're the leading industry expert on trying to find motivated sellers for us investors. Justin, first off, thanks for having me, except to be here. But yeah, motivated sales is. That's all we do. Motivated single family or, you know,

four and under real estate people looking to sell. We target the top five categories as our main thing. You know, everything from divorce to probate, pre-foreclosure, tired landlords, and health and safety issues. People need to move. That's what we're targeting. And it's so exciting to see how, you know,

our investors are converting. But all we do is leads. It's mostly from the Google Plows. Yeah. Whether it's pay-per-click, YouTube, some display ads, but everything's going through our Google platform for the most part. And we bring the leads in for the investors. So there's plenty of competition in your space, just like mine, right? As an investor, I have a lot of competition. And no difference in your space. You have other competitors that, you know, do what you do. What separates you in general from the competition? I'll give you a little

example on this with the competitors, right? A lot of our competitors, I know them, they're good guys. I look at it as you go to a street. And if you're going out for a drink, you can go to a place where there's a lot of bars. And everybody wants to drink. There's more people who want to sell and there's more opportunity in real estate than investors than there is. So we can't provide our investors enough leads. We send out about 500 leads a day and we're asked for probably about double that. What makes us different? We use the entire Google platform. Our leads start at 150 per lead right now. We just started a national promo for leads just across the country that are 30 bucks. That'll probably go up to 50 pretty soon. But we do that.

We have exceptional customer service. I'm proud to be a part of that as well. Yeah. You know, I'm going to toot my own horn there a little bit. Nice. We try to be super helpful for investors. Whether it's, hey, you know, I need help with the lead. I don't, you know, maybe it's give me a credit from a dispute policy or, hey, I got this lead and the person is motivated.

have no idea what to do. And I'm like, hey, you know what, I have the perfect guy for short sale, for subject to, just give them a call and work the deal together, work something out. And so we just really are like helping even your clientele. Like, you know, I did a training last night to about 55 investors. And one of the things I talked about is being able to diversify the asset. Because if you only are a one trick pony, do one thing with it, then you might spend $100,50 on a lead. And it may not work for the one trick you do, right? So let's just say, say you're the Burr investor. You buy it, you rehab, you rent, your refinance. And if that's your one vertical, the lead you just bought may not fit for that, right? It may be a better short-term

rental. It may be a better novation. It may be a better just straight-up listing. But if you aren't diversified in how you're exiting, there's a lot of people out there spending a lot of money, but they don't have the skill set to diversify that. Yeah, and that's exactly it. And, you know, for the big time investors, we have a lot of big guys. They're going to teach me way more than I can ever teach them. Sure. You know, I might give them a little hint like, hey, you should organize this in Dropbox or use, you know, talk to this guy. But by and large, they're going to teach me way more. Yeah. But some of the smaller guys, I can give them a lot of tips and put them in the right place. So it's just when you talk about differentiation, we're just going

out of our way to help people. Yeah. Well, and that's a huge thing in today's world. And this is why you know this. So, you know, there's a lot of companies, not just in the, in the finding motivated seller space, right? But there's just a lot of companies that undervalue the customer service part, right? And even in the coaching space, people under value, like really treating these individuals like they're your brother, like you're really grabbing their hand and holding their hand across the finish line. And I think that it's crudos to you guys to really put an emphasis on that. What will happen and you know this to be true, you'll keep people longer. They will buy more from you. You don't need to have the widest audience. You don't need to have the most investors buy

leads from you. You need the right investors. And if they keep buying leads, your profitability goes up. Absolutely. You know, one of the things I said right away is we don't want a machine answer in the phone. Yeah. We want a real person, you know. And then you talk about longevity. I mean, there's got, there's, I've been working with motivated sellers since 2019. Yeah.

There's guys, a lot of guys I know who I met when I started who are still buying with us. And then it's also cool. I'll see guys, hey, I took off for a year or two or I changed my strategy. Now I want to get back in or I left a company. I came. So it's a lot of new people coming in. It's a lot of the same people, just year after year. Yeah.

And it's fun because I'll go to an event and I'll see, oh, this guy, I know, I haven't seen him in a little while. Or, you know, sometimes, you know, Sarah was just at an event in Orlando. I mean, in Phoenix, actually, your neighborhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a guy sends me a selfie of me and her. He's like, hey, look who I found. You know, so it's cool that over time you start seeing a lot of the same guys and you build relationships and, oh, how's everything going. Oh, you know, I had a little bit of a rough street.

But then I just bought this house, check this out. I just sent you pictures. I can't believe, like, how we were able to make this deal work. Yeah. It's super exciting. Well, treating the people the right way will keep them with you for a very long time. What are you seeing industry-wide, right? So you guys are spending a lot of money every month driving these leads in and then you sell them off.

You're a pay-per-lead company, correct? Exactly. So I wanted to find that for some people is you can, instead of building your own Google pay-per-click campaign, you can just go to motivatedsellers.com and buy the leads directly. So I find that to be incredibly useful. I buy a lot of leads each and every month. So super easy. Industry-wide and with the Google thing,

at the end of the day, the most important thing is lead quality, right? So I can be super nice to you. You could like me, but if I'm not giving you the results, you know, it's got to be a win-win. Yeah. And win-win with the seller too. So we really have to deliver, right?

We spend almost $2 million a month in marketing with Google. Makes sense. Which is, which to me is insane. You know, I always tell the investors, I'm like, we're all helping the Google stack. prices. That's right. You know, but Google sends reps to us every quarter. Yeah. You know, they go through, they look at our numbers. We're actually pushing data back to them now of what leads are actually converting. Because they're saying we're using a large chunk of what they can

fulfill, but they can fulfill more. So they'd rather target the right stuff to help us grow. Yeah. So we just started putting that in place. What I'm seeing is, you know, I thought people would be selling the houses right away and a lot of motivation. But what I ended up seeing, I did a sample last week of just a couple days from last year, I said, how many of these leads are actually selling a year later? What I found is 27% of the leads sell within one year. Oh, wow. Which is a lot more than I thought. I think it's awesome.

You'd think you'd have more tire kickers being that you're doing Google platform. Right. 27%'s a lot. But what I also found, the 64% of those don't sign a contract until 90 days after they filled out the lead. That's a great key. And that blew me away. Yeah. Blume me away.

because now you have the opportunity. You get a lead in. You're like, oh, man, this person's not motivated. They want retail. Of course they want retail, wouldn't you? Yeah. But then reality strikes them in the face. You know, that hole in the roof is not going to fix itself.

You know, that kitchen, you haven't updated it for 50 years. You're not going to get the price your neighbor got. Yeah. So let's try and find the deal. And if the investors follow up and I think more phone calls every so often, don't blow up their phones, but check back every month or two. That month three, four, five, six, you're going to see a huge advantage. Well, the thing that you talked about is so near and dear to my heart, which is the proper expectations based around the data, right?

So for you guys to have the data that you did a couple weeks ago, this is a couple weeks old now, is 27% of the people that fill out the form sell within a 12-month period. What that says to me is someone who buys leads but also educates people who buy leads. You need to nurture these people for a lot longer than you think you do. You can't make four or five calls or ten calls and say, ah, man, I missed out on, there's nothing here. They don't, no, you got a runway of 12 months to be nurturing this lead. And so what is the salesmanship? What is the follow-up? What is the nurture that you're doing to do that?

Do you have suggestions for your clients? Yes, I have some suggestions. I'll give you a couple more numbers, though. So, let's do it. Number one, it takes over 30 contacts on average to get a contract between text, emails, and phone calls. 30 contacts with one person. Or, okay. You know, a lot of it's a couple texts in the beginning, but then, you know, we're tracking all the text messages, all the emails.

Some of them might be a threat. But the average is over 30 times you've talked to a person before you get a deal. The other thing we found, going back to the 27 percent, another 28 percent list and don't sell. And you think that there's opportunities in there, especially the listings that don't sell? You get back to them, hey, listen, how did the listing go? It didn't work. I understand you tried to go with the realtor. Hey, let's revisit this.

And I think you talk so much about having the personal relationships. Obviously, if you're buying a lot of leads, you can't have a, you know, a real tight relationship with people, but having a system. Maybe follow-up Fridays. I used to say one of my old companies. Yeah. I was like, I don't want you guys doing new work on Fridays. Just follow up with your people. Hey, how's everything going?

Make a few phone calls. Casual. How's everything? If they need your help, they do. If not, you're checking in on them. That's right. You know, one of our clients, this guy named Louis, he used to send out Christmas car. and New Year's cards to everybody,

Earth Day cards to people. Anybody can find their birthday? Yeah. He'd send him a birthday message. That's great. You can get a lot of deals from that, but he could probably get about one or two a year. But you already spent the money.

That's it. So why not just go get the one or two a year and bring it to the bottom line? That's what people don't understand that I'm very aware of, but I want people to understand what you and I are saying. If you already spent the money on the lead, treat the lead the right way. So like the way I do my books is I close my quarters out.

So every quarter comes, my bookkeeper close that out whatever money I spent whatever revenue was made the quarter is closed now I might have bought a lead in January that I don't close into November so it is bottom line free money for Q4 that because Q1 was already booked it's already closed I spent 100 grand in Q1 I made 250 grand that's closed but a lead from that spend closes in November that is a free income that is free money because the book is already closed there but if you treat it it right, then you can actually close that. Like the one or two deals from the thank you card, the birthday card, the Christmas card,

is basically free money because it's so far down the path. The money is already spent. It's already booked if you're doing your P&L correctly, right? Like, okay, well, go get one. It's literally bottom line money to boost up your P&L. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're so right on that. And, you know, I'd use a very small sample size.

Let's just clear that out. I wasn't going through, you know, years worth of data. This was me and Elizabeth going through PropStream, going through Zillow, and just doing our own research. You know, so we're trying to do it quickly. But, no, wait, 27% of the people that come to you and motivated sellers are going to sell within 12 months. From the data. 60% of the 20% did what? Been signed a contract classed 90 days after.

90 days after, got it. And from 90 days to 160, you was about 20-something, you know, from six months to nine months, again, 20-something, and then it trailed off a little bit at the end. So that first 90 days really is predominantly, like, that's where you got to run as fast and as hard as you can to try to get that 60% curvature. And then you'll still get them over.

40-some-odd percent. Yep. The first 30 days, the first 90 days, only about a third of the leads go under contract. Oh, I thought you said. Of the ones that were a deal. Though 64 is all from the follow-up. Oh, wow.

I thought it would be after 90- I thought it was a curve that's going down this way. It's actually going up. But it actually kind of like curves up. And it curves up and it's even, but two-thirds of it is after 90 days. That is incredible. And I never knew that before. I wasn't expecting that.

And, you know, but I figured how are we going to figure out how lead qualities? And when I called investors, I'm like, how's the lead quality? Oh, I didn't get any deals. And I'm asking, how's your last 10 deals? Your 10 leads you got. And now I'm thinking myself, well, that's okay. There's deals in those. You just got to do the follow-up.

But you need to talk to them 30 times. You need to contact them. Some of it's just text back and forth. Some of it's follow up. So just so just so I'm clear because I think there's there's some miscommunication in our industry, not between you and I. Like contact is when you reply to my reach out. Whether I call you and you answer, I call you, you call me back. There's some level of exchange because to me outreach is outreach.

So if you have 30 attempts to reach the person. That's what I'm talking about. We sent out or the investor sent us. I would go through the CRM and I'd be counting. How many times do you outreach to Jason to find Jason? Exactly. Okay. But for example, if I go, hey, Jerry, how are you?

And then you go, oh, I'm good. I go, oh, good to hear. What's going on? I would count each time I send a message in that number. Yep. Okay. Okay. Now, I call that a contact.

So the initial time that you either respond to me or answer my phone or whatever, now I have a contact. Now you're just saying there still needs to be 29 more back and forth. Yeah. Okay. I'm saying that's what we're seeing on average. Some of them, it's one call, hey, I'll be in the neighborhood later and I'm going. Yeah.

You know, other ones are, you know, you have your follow-up emails that are going out every month. You've got a text message chain back and forth. You know, you do an appointment. You call them back three months later. You do another appointment. So all of it's going to be different. Depends on the seller and what they need. No, of course.

On average, we're seeing over 30 contacts get those contracts. So this is important because how do you make your client be better? Help them understand the numbers. Help them understand the expectation of what happens when most. Motivated sellers give you leads, well, you're buying them. They're not giving to you, but you buy the leads from motivated sellers. Don't have improper expectations. Oh, I bought 10 leads.

I got nothing. This doesn't work. Absolutely not. How many times do you call them? How many actual contacts did you make? How many back and forth exchanges? How many offers did you make? Like, there's so much more that goes into it than just the lead.

Oh, no doubt about it. And unfortunately, the lead providers like yourself in your industry, unfortunately, you end up getting the blame. All, these aren't good leads. and they're not motivated sellers. Oh, they're not motivated to second. Fair. They want retail price. I got it.

But again, nurture that sequence. We're in a time and event business. So like you just said, you have a client that sends out Christmas cards. It's an event. There's something happening that could trigger, hey, this guy's been reaching out to me all year long. I have, you know, Christmas, I just lost my job, this, that, and the other. I need to bring back some money. I'm going to sell my home.

well, that postcard triggered the event that happened to the seller. Yeah, that's exactly it. You know, we just, once you get the data and you have your systems, it changes everything. And what we see is a lot of the investors who go on in the appointments do really well. Yeah. You know. A person to person. A person to person.

Yeah. But we have so many guys who do virtual, you know, in other markets. They also do well. But when you start getting into virtual, when you start getting into the, you know, to the larger companies, it's all the systems, it's all the follow-ups, and that's what makes them success. They want to talk to a person originally, and then they just want to go through

and follow up their sequence, and everybody's trying to get the deals faster. You spending the money on your ads, you want a quick return. But if you can convert a few later on, it just changes everything. Everything. It always comes back over time.

Where people get crushed is when they get in front of their skis. It could be 25 grand, it could be 100 grand, or even in my case was quarter million dollars. And they stop, marketing and they stop working the leads and that combination is deadly that's where people lose a lot of money is because the leads are already in your database and if you give up on working

those leads we do deals all the time that the lead is six months old the lead is 12 months old the lead is two years old and we'll close them because we have a nurture sequence and again that money has already been spent so go get the money back right cover your cost And so I would encourage everybody to realize like, A, be aware of your financial situation. But also, you know, you need to understand the KPIs that Jason is talking about of how are you going to go get those deals? How are you going to be able to monetize and get your money back? Because unfortunately, people stop spending money and they kind of get frustrated and quit. And that's where they're going to lose money.

Absolutely. I'll tell you something, too, though. That's not discount. those, a lot of people do put it in for, for an urgent need. Yeah. Right. And for those, you know, you want to get on those right away. So we talk about the nurture sequence.

It's obviously super important. The other thing is speed to lead. So if you're getting a lead in, you should be calling. You're eating dinner. Excuse yourself. Make the initial phone call. Absolutely. You know, you're in the car, pull over the side of the road.

Don't kill anybody. Make that phone call. That's right. I tell my team, like, I don't care about weekends. Like, not in our space of real estate. I think there's a lot of people who like, oh, I own a business to have more time. I got to shoot you all you guys straight. Owning your business actually goes the other way for a long period of time is you actually have less time.

And because like I was talking to my general manager the other day is some leads came in rather late at night in my time. Now, I'm the East Coast and he's in Arizona still. So I literally saw the leads come in and I called them and I said you need to go get these. not for any other reason, but I knew he would do it, right? Because it was, what, 9 o'clock in my time? So it was 7 o'clock or 7 o'clock? 6 or 7, depending on the...

Well, my rest of my team would have been like, I mean, it's 6 o'clock, right? Like, I'm done for the day. And I'm like, fuck, no, you're not. Like, I just spent money on that lead. Yeah. Go get that lead. I'll tell you something funny.

Josh and Tiffany say a lot of the leads that they see clothes were from the night time. I didn't track any data on that. 100%. But, you know, You know, think about it. If it's keeping a person up at night, if they're worried about it. Now I'm not saying call somebody at 2 a.m. if they do that, but maybe a text if they fill out a form.

Yeah. You know, but be on top of it. Let them know you care. Hey, let's chat tomorrow. You want to talk now? I can. Most of it doesn't come in at that time. Yeah.

It's more normal, you know, normal hours. But if somebody's doing it late in night, give them a call. They obviously have a concern. That's why they're filling it out. There's no doubt. And the weekend's the same. I think there's a lot of, and I don't have my phone on me, but I think there's a lot of people that need to get those notifications on their phone. Because as the business owner, and your clientele is made up of what?

Is it kind of a mesh of like real businesses that have acquisition teams and the solopreneur who's doing it themselves? So we have a very wide spectrum. We have, you know, big time acquisition companies, a couple funds. And then we have, you know, one-man shops where I'm telling the guy, hey, man, you need a VA. Yeah. You've got to be talking to people. You're a great person. but stop doing paperwork.

Yeah. Well, but I would tell that same person is you better be seven days a week, you know, 24-7 because your lead comes in on Saturday at, you know, 2 p.m. in the afternoon when they're out with their family, like you said about dinner, hey, excuse me, guys, I got let me just make this call real quick. Because you spent money on that lead. And that lead, speed to lead, you just said it. Like there is no like, oh, it's my daughter's birthday.

I'm going to just not, like, to me, these are some of the sacrifices. of being a solopreneur, a one-man shop, until you have leverage. Like, you need to get on that lead. Like, what's your average cost per lead? So our average cost for leads about 175. And people, by the way, our minimum now is 150. But I'll tell you one more part about that. But you can turn off the system anytime you want.

So if it's your daughter's birthday, you can stop the lead. You can just put pause for a couple hours. I have a guy in California who always turns off when he's in traffic. I'm thinking it's the best time to call, but probably better he's not talking on the phone. but you can turn it on and off whenever you want. You have full control of that. Yeah. So I think I just had my daughter's birthday.

And if I was on the phone there, I would have got a lot. I agree. Listen. Not only from the kids that are you married. Parents too, you know. Yeah. So you could turn it off, turn it back on. But if you're on and you get that lead like you're saying, you just got to get on that.

But here's where I'm kind of a psycho, don't you know, because I, most people are going to do what you're suggesting. They're going to turn it off. Oh, Saturday. I have a family day. And I say that because to some extent you're right. Like we all do this so we can have more time with our wife and our children. So yes, you should be present, right? But the reality is if you know half of the community is pausing it and you didn't,

you're likely getting cheaper leads, better leads, and you're going to be first to the lead because Jason paused is, I got the lead. Now I call them right away. You might end up being able to find that lead somewhere else or whatever, but I'm first to that lead. And if I'm good at my job, I'm going to get the deal. Right? And so I'm just a little bit more of the cycle. I was like, dude, this is a seven day a week business.

And until you're at a point of leverage, which I love the idea of at least having a, there's companies, I haven't used them in a long time. What are some of the like Ruby something call Ruby? They're just answering companies. Okay. So if someone comes in. I don't want to do that with these leads. Right. And so what you're saying is, right, once you get to the second part, once you have, you start building your company, you have a second person who can do the calls. Yeah. Think of it like doctor ships, right? You're not going to get 50 leads from us a day.

I love it. Right. If you think about accounting, right? So we're in Miami here. We might get one or two or three leads a day max. And that's going to all the investors. Yeah. Maybe it's a few more if it's a busy day or whatever, but you're not getting that many.

So when they come in, you got to treat them like gold. Yeah. And that's why I'm saying what I'm saying is, you know, know, me and my wife have a pretty solid understanding. I'm not necessarily in that game of, like, dealing with the seller leads. But I have multiple businesses that run at a pretty high level. And when I have to take a call, I try not to. But if I have to take a call, like, it is what it is, right?

Listen, do you like this life? The real estate lifestyle to me is, my background is a CPA. Okay. And what I saw is the people who had wealth longer than just, they were, you know, you have your doctors, you have your business owners, you have your whatever talents, you know, NBA player. But the people who had. wealth long term in the kids and after something happened, a magazine executive, for example,

you know, the way the dinosaurs and magazines, I feel like, but she owned real estate in New York City. So she was fine. All of a sudden, she's not making the same living, but she's okay as opposed to it. So real estate gives you that lifestyle. It's not a quick thing. Yeah. But it gives you that easier a lifestyle, more time to be with the family.

But that being said, when you have to take a call, you have to do it. And, you know, you guys are great because of a lot of different things. but giving some flexibility on when leads come in is a really big highlight, right? Because sometimes you don't have a choice. Now, there's competition that you guys have that you could just buy a lead outright, right then and right there, and that's fine. But like, I just like the ability to just have leads flowing. Do you guys agree giving all the data you guys have?

I take a wider range shot. And what I mean by that is I'll give you an analogy. I believe instead of being very specific in one corner of the hemisphere, like only focusing on deals that are pre-foreclosure, doing direct mail, hitting pre-foreclosure only, it's very tight, very raw. You can have big rips. You might be able to make a couple million dollars a year doing that.

My philosophy is I want wide. I want the whole Miami-Day County lead opportunity for the whole damn county and I want as many leads as possible because my belief is I can, So if I gave you five basketballs right under the basket, and I have 100 basketballs at half court, who has a better chance of making six shots? Obviously you. Because you can't even hit six.

Yeah, exactly. Right? And that's my philosophy is like, fine, I am much further away. I understand that. But I have a hundred shots on goal. I'm going to bet I can make six before you, right? And do you have any data kind of supporting, like, the more lead flow, the better off you're going to be?

I don't have any data like that. I haven't tracked it. But I do believe in lead flow. Some people say, listen, let me own my market, right? Others are like, hey, listen, I'll take any market in the sunbelt or any market in upstate New York or Northern California or, you know, take 92 cities or counties that have a population over, I think there's 100 or 200,000 and they'll do anything in there because there's enough demand.

Yeah. So I like the wider thing. for me, you know, we do a bidding system, so some leads can get expensive, you know, San Diego gets expensive from time to time. But for me, I'd rather spread it out, get leads at 150 and have, like you said, more shots. That's right. And then to further on that, you want to have more ways to do a deal. So if you're just doing a wholesale, everybody with no equity you can't work with anymore, right? If you're just doing subject two, you're not going to be able to do all the deals.

We have a lot of guys in Texas who do subject two. They love our leads, but it doesn't work if that's all they're doing. If they can wholesale a few, if they can buy a few and flip them, now all of a sudden the numbers just back out so much better and they're getting those three, four X returns. That's right. As opposed to creating a note and just breaking even. People who want a higher number, novations.

You know, it's phenomenal doing those because now all of a sudden you can get them a higher number and still make a fee and everybody's happy. Yeah. So the more flexibility you have and the more things you can do in the wider range, the more success you're going to have to be. And listen, it takes more training. You have to learn more, right?

You need a good coach. You need a good mentor. You need to read. A little bit of YouTube university probably doesn't help. Sure. You know, but if you're willing to expand and improve yourself, the opportunities are there. And this is not that hard. Well, this is where I tell people like your type of clientele is on the newer side, right?

So I built a community called REILive.co. We talked about it a little bit earlier. The whole point of that community is I'm not charging $10,000. I'm charging $200 so I can help your clients actually convert the leads. Right? So then they're buying leads from you and I'm helping them convert them because I'll actually comp the properties, call the homeowners, and they'll watch me do it versus me just saying, oh, here's what you should say.

Here's your script. Go do it. Right. And the whole point being is I think there's a disconnect right now, specifically on the newer side, right? Your clients who are, you know, the Tiffany and Jot, like, they're dialed in. They have operations. There's plenty of clients you have like that.

But the people who are out there buying leads and spending money, I've been a coach for over decade. You said the reason why this comes up is you talked about someone should get a coach. Everyone should, but you don't have to pay 10, 15, $20,000 for a coach. There are communities like RIA Live.co that I'm happy to help you work the leads you're getting from motivatedsellers.com. Like buy it from Jason. Go to motivatedsellers.com right now. Buy leads. And then I'll help you work it until you have the confidence enough to just like go. Right. To me, that's like amazing mentorship, right? You've been there. You've done that, you know, they're going to learn from doing to me, like no good deal goes unfunded.

Maybe that's not true, but maybe it's no great deal. But when you have coaches, when you have people in your corner, when you have mentors, right, whether it's $200 or $10, that doesn't matter how much they're spending on it. When they have people who've been there and done that, it's just another fresh set of eyes. And then plus they're learning from you. So, you know, I've learned real estate from a lot of people, right? Every single person, there's a lot of things I disagree with, but every single person I'm extremely grateful for.

Sure. So I've learned so much. And then when I talk to investors, I'm like, hey, you should do this or talk to this guy. Now all of a sudden it's coming full circle because I'm able to pay it forward. Yeah. And that lead that they spend money that they're not happy with, all of a sudden, hey, this is an opportunity for you. This isn't just a waste of money. And now that sell is like, oh, man, you solve my problem.

So the whole idea is that just everybody's going to win from it. Everyone. And you bring up the point that we've talked about. But like, if you understand how to be dynamic and how you exit the potential of the property, a lot of people, I use it in a very specific. language. You got to look at the potential of the property. If you understand the potential of the property, then you understand whether you're going to novate it, whether it's a wholesale deal, fix and flip, long-term rental, short-term rental, right? Or you do house hack, right? It's a house

pad split. Like, there's so many different, diverse ways to find the potential. And so pigeon holding yourself to do some mail formula, like 60% of ARV minus wholesale fee, minus rehab, You're just going to convert, like, if you say one out every 30 is what you're seeing on average or whatever it is. We see about one out of 15 leads will come to a deal. Right. So the person who's a one trick pony will be like one out of every 30. Yeah. But that's not, it's not full in everything because if you look at your bur guys, I was just talking to one of the guys yesterday, I like, listen, you're not going to get one out of 15.

I'll tell you you're not going to do that good. And he's like, all right, let's work some numbers. And we ended up saying, let's be conservative is one out of 40. we just figured out. For the Burr model? To get a deal. Yeah. And it would cost them six grand for the deal.

And we started looking at it. We're like, wow, how much equity did you get out of that? Oh, you got seller financing for you. Oh, you have cash flow for it. So that might take you a little bit of time to recoup your money in terms of cash flow. But his whole thing is building wealth and having rentals long term. And I'm like, you're not going to buy that. Part acquisition.

Think about what you just said. It's six grand to get his deal. So 40 leads one burr. Let's just say he buys it for $100. I'm making it up. So say, look, I'm buying you for 106 grand. Yeah. It's a part of your acquisition cost.

Exactly right. Right. So you're a remodel. So you, because buy it, rehab it. So your rehab is 50 grand. Fine. Put the six grand on the rehab budget. So you have a $56,000 rehab budget.

Like the point being is it's a cost to the deal. We all have costs, whether it's rentals, fix and flips, wholesales. So you just got to figure out how to attribute the cost. That's it. And if people understand how to attribute the cost, your background's being an accountant. It's not that hard.

I can underwrite a deal and say, okay, for every six grand I spend and buying a rental, it now is like, how fast can I spend six grand? Because it's not very expensive. And you compare it like to MLS. Listen,

realtors have, are super important, help me get into my house with my wife and my kids. Sure. You know, they screw up a lot of deals. Sure.

You know, and it annoys a seller and the buyer because you have more people in the way, right? You want to have it kind of shake out a deal figured out. And here you're talking directly, hey, what do you really need? What do you really want? You know, realtor's pitch is, hey, I'm going to sell it for the most money, the fastest.

Yep. But is that always what the client needs, you know? Do they want to wait for the listing, the pictures and all that? Here, you're talking directly. Hey, do you really need the most money or do you need a way out of your situation? Yeah. You know, do you need, okay, you want to get the most money, but do you need it right away? Well, no, I just need to live off of them.

So maybe I can give you more over time. And when you're talking directly to a person, you just get rid of that. whole telephone game of mixed messages and everything. Absolutely. Yeah, it's really important. I mean, motivatedsellers.com, by the way, again, it's motivatedsellers.com. But finding the ability to nurture the contact is huge. Talk to us a little bit about what you guys are finding with the best sales guys in the space, right? If you're able to get the lead and then you're also good at the negotiation part, the numbers I'm assuming are going down. Here's what I'm saying to have the best sales guys. The best sales guys are not the best sales

guys. Right? And I don't know if I'm contradicting myself, but I was just at the car dealership a few months ago. And those are true and true sales guys. Through and through. Those guys sell. If I, if I had a car dealership, I just go in there and hire everybody. They're phenomenal. In our space, it's different. Be a problem solver. Be empathetic. Understand a person. I'm very big on seven habits with Stephen Covey, right? Seek to understand and be understood, right? So if you're understanding a person, the numbers will work themselves out. The deal will either work or it won't. Yeah. Right.

You do the best you can. They're going to try to do the best you can. You can work out a deal if there's a deal to be made. That's right. But if you understand a person, and this is what we're seeing with investors, is you understand a person, you understand what they want. Then you negotiate. You can figure something out.

But to me, the one tour that's most successful are the ones who take to understand the client's situation. That's right. Yeah. Is there anything that you feel like listeners, viewers should really understand about motivatedsellers.com. I just believe, you know, we need to find more opportunities. And motivatedsellers.com is a great place for us as investors to find those opportunities.

There's two ways to this. I give two messages here. About a quarter, we have 1,800 active investors. A quarter of them are those big guys, right? But the other 75% are five or less people, and a lot of them are one and two-man shops, or a guy who's doing it after work, right? If you're new in the industry, we just started the nationwide leads. Use those as practice.

It's 30 bucks now. It's going to go up. Take advantage of that. Get some practice. Hey, Justin, help me underwrite this deal in, you know, a thousand miles away from me. Right, right. But now all of a sudden you're practicing. You're learning the industry.

You're learning the numbers for a lot less cost. Yep. Right. If you're in an area and you want to get leads, set a monthly budget. Maybe it's 1,000. Maybe it's $1,000. Maybe it's 12. Whatever it is, go and try and see a bunch of leads.

If you're one of the bigger guys, dude, buy into us for a couple of months. Yeah. Go in and put an effort in. And what do you tell people about like how long should they test you guys out, right? I mean, I have my answer. But what, like, because I know I hate when people go to motivated sellers.com, they buy some leads for a month. Oh, I didn't really get much or whatever. Not really.

That's not a runway. You got to give yourself a runway of really trying a marketing channel. So last year I saw there was 200 investors. who bought one lead. And it drove me crazy. Yeah. We had, you know, 2,000 something. I don't remember the number, bought leads from us.

But 200, so 10% bought one lead. I'm like, dude, don't waste your money on that. Yeah. You know, I'm sure maybe one or two of them got a deal and maybe. Maybe. But they would come back if they did. Yeah, I don't know. But the ones that are buying a lot, it works.

I'd say, to me, I would say buy 30 leads. That would be my number and see what the number should go. So give yourself a budget of 30 leads. 30 leads. And you're averaging 50, 100. $150 a lead on average, right? Right. $4,500.

Then I think that's a fair runway. And the reason why I say that is because I believe if you're going to do a marketing strategy, you have to bear minimum, minimum, minimum, you got to run for 90 days, right? Continually spend into it, continually bring in leads and focus on your nurture and follow-up. I do that on your 90 days, if people can stick out 90 days, even if they're at the minimum, because leads can be more than 150, but if they go 90 days, way more than not, and this is my bet, would be really happy with it.

Now, they might not go full time with a huge budget, but they're going to be like, I want these leads. I'm all going to people. I'm getting deals. Well, and because at the end of the day, if you did it seriously,

you're going to have real lead flow every day, every week, every month, and then it's just a matter of conversion. Are you able to convert the deal and convert a list or lead? And that's why I tell the people, like, when we go into any new marketing channel, So probably the newest I'm aware that we've tried was TV.

Okay. So I've never done TV. This year we did TV or end of last year. So Q4 of last year we started TV. Okay. So I was like, dude, everyone, you know, people are doing it. They're finding success. Let's try TV.

I've done everything. PPL, PPC, direct mail, cold calling floors. I built my, like, I've done it all. I've never done TV. So I tried that. That's the most recent like marketing strategy. I said if I can go 90 days, and or up to six months and break even, it's a keeper.

The reason being is because then I know over a longer runway, all those leads will turn into profitability. Right. Now, not everyone has the luxury of, I'm 20 years in this business, right? And so I just, I have a team. I have people. Like, I'm different than a lot of people. But how I look at it is similar to how I believe most people should.

Go do motivatedsellers.com for 90 days. If you break even from profitability point, keep going. Because now you still have a database of leads that you can continue to work while also bringing in new leads. That's where the profitability comes because you're bringing in the old leads that convert and still breaking even on the new leads. Over time, you look back at the end of your year, you will be up at a minimum of 3x because there's 4 quarters. So if you bring it, break even on quarter one and profitable for 3 quarters, you're going to be at a 3.4. Reax almost every time I guarantee it.

Challenges. Getting them to go for 90 days. That's it. I'll tell you, I want to see people making money in the first 90 days. That's it. I want more gravy after the first 90s. But in that first month, I want to see some deals.

I got to tell you. That's right. But it's okay to me, I would say, I would make the argument, make money. It doesn't have to be profitable, right? If you spend three grand, you don't need to make nine.

like if you did a deal and you collected a check and it proved system and builds confidence, then you got to keep going. It works. So just get more efficient and better at it and keep going back to motivatedsellers.com. Definitely, definitely. Dude, I appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for having me. If anybody wants to reach out, I'm Jason at motivatedsellers.com.

Yeah. Happy to talk to everybody. It's so much fun, this industry. I appreciate being here. Of course. links are going to be all below here on YouTube. You'll see all the links. Go to motivatedsellers.com.

This is Jason. I'm Justin. If this was cool or you think someone needs to go check out motivatedsellers.com, share it with these two of your friends. We'll see you on the next episode.