The Science of Flipping - X-Ray Tech to Multi-Family Real Estate Investing Mogul | Michael Guthrie

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

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What is up, everybody? What is up? Welcome back to the Science of Flipping. As always, I am your host, Justin Colby, and I have someone very special here on this podcast episode. Michael Guthrie is here. What is up, sir? Nada, how are you doing today, Colby? Justin, great to see you. I'm doing great. And by the way, you can call me Colby. You know me well enough from boardroom, and the people that really know me, you can call me Colby, not a problem at all. So the reason why I find this to be so great in such a powerful interview is because I want you guys all to know the biggest mistake I've ever made, and most of you guys

know this, it wasn't the seven-figure loss on a development play. It wasn't the quarter-million-dollar loss on a multi-million-dollar flip. Those weren't my biggest mistake. My number one biggest mistake was not buying rentals from the day I started. And Mr. Guthrie has made a massive impact here. And I don't mean to call you Mr. as if, but Michael here has made a massive impact on me because we're part of the same mastermind. We're sitting in the same rooms and we're having these conversations. And he basically says, yeah, you're right.

That is your biggest mistake, right? And so Michael has 8,800 doors, I think at this point. Correct. In the multifamily space. So guys, if you are interested in building wealth and accumulating wealth, but also massive cashflow and living this life that everyone talks about, including everyone's fan, everyone's guy, Grant Cardone, right? This is his main subject matter, which I've spent a lot of time with Grant. So maybe you and I can talk a little bit about that. But, you know, listen, it's important for me to educate people on this point about building wealth while you were going. I have no problem with everyone here, starting with wholesaling, getting a couple of checks, getting into flipping, buying some single family rentals.

But at the end of the day, everyone should have a goal of accumulating wealth, right? And that's where Michael's at And that's where Michael's at. That's where I'm creating more and more every year I'm in the business. I've done this 15 years. Um, and so this is important. I mean, this is going to be a good episode for everyone to, you know, maybe pull off side of the road or really listen here. Cause there's going to be some good content. Um, so Michael give everyone just like a little heads up about what your last, however many years have been. And then we will kind of take it from there and fast forward into what you're currently

doing, which is a little different than what you have been doing. Absolutely. So my wife, my wife, Samantha, and I started a, actually let me back up. I was in the, I got out of the military in 1994 and, uh, got out, got my x-ray license. I was an x-ray tech in the hospital in Monterey California and one in San Francisco I did that's how we started friend of mine came to me with this idea of residual income I thought I was always going to own and nobody really knows this laundry mats because I figured everybody always has to get their clothes washed so people will always be using those machines while I was doing something else so I'd always have a secondary

side hustle if you will so that was my dream and my dad's like when are you going to get those laundromats and I started uh and down that road and I we just it never came to fruition but a friend had come to me as I was doing x-ray and MRI in the Bay Area and said, hey, there's this new opportunity. The network's just deregulated and you can own ATM machines. So we bought our first ATM machine on my wife's credit card. She's the president of the company because I didn't, I got out of the military. I didn't have much money. I didn't have much credit.

I just went through a divorce. And so we bought, we were a we were boyfriend girlfriend when we started our company on her credit card so she knew if i left her she was still going to be holding the debt so we made her the president of the company she's still the president as of today uh well sort of um we'll get back to that and um we started placing atm machines and started to grow that what the interesting thing about ATM machines and laundromats is once it's placed, it's going to generate income all the time. And once we got to a certain level, we decided to buy some single family rentals and we got that up to about seven.

We never did any fix and flips or any of that sort of thing because I was always doing MRI working in a hospital. So I had a full-time gig gig I needed something that would make money when I wasn't working so much so we bought seven we ended up buying seven rentals that got to be a little too much to handle we 1031 those into three rentals in Southern California and literally two years ago we sold off our last rental uh in Southern California and put all that money into buying apartments. And along the way, we've been looking into expanding that rental fleet, if you will, because we knew on our duplexes, when one door was empty, we had to cover the rent or the mortgage. And that could get expensive. So we figured we wanted more doors so we'd have more avenues of income to cover if the overall-

Economy's a scale, right? Economy's a scale, absolutely. So we sold those off, got into a group where we could actually get into buying apartments because most of the offerings we get involved in are what's called a 506C, where you have to actually know somebody that's actually doing the deal to get in the deal. And big people like McElroy and sometimes even Grant Cardone, their funds fill up so fast, you're going to have to wait till the next one comes along and make sure you're on that train and ready to go that day. You don't really

have a time to review what they're doing. It's either you're bringing your money in or you're out. People just trust the sponsors so much that they just jump in. So fast forward to today, we started actually buying, or in the last couple of years, we started buying apartments three years ago, and we are in 29 deals as limited partners. Of those 29, 12 of them were actually a general partner on, and that's a little over 8,800 doors today. So we've taken it from almost nothing into something very, very large. And the reason is the more doors, the more possible income that could come in. So then you can actually stop your W-2 job if you have one and actually start living off of your residual income. That's the goal for me is more residual income so that I can actually live.

I can't live off net worth. I can actually only live off of cash flow. And I know we're all in bed with that because you guys do fix and flips for the most part because you want to grow that cash. So let's maybe talk to more of a newer person right now and then we'll escalate the conversation a little more high level.

That all sounds great. And why, you know, listen, Grant Cardone being kind of a figurehead for what you do also is, you know, he talks about this as such a high level, but how does someone even get going at these price points? Like for an example, I'm looking at buying 80 doors in Columbus, Ohio for 5.5 million for, for most x-ray techs right now, listening to this, they're like, well, how the hell do I even, what would I even do? How do, what do I got it? Like, what do I do if I'm presented with that opportunity? Do you have like maybe a newbie, say someone's like the old you, x-ray tech, full-time job.

What do they do? Where would they start to try to escalate into that model? That's a great question, Colby. What you do is you get in proximity with people that are actually doing these kind of deals and figure out how you can come in and add value. Whether it's you're going to come in and if Colby's doing this one, five and a half million dollars as a syndication, he's going to have to raise about in today's market,

he's going to have to raise about two and a half to three million dollars of that money. And he probably doesn't have that checkbook to write that check today. I could write the check, but I don't want to go alone. It's far better to go as a team. So we'll all put in $50,000, $200,000, $250,000, and we'll put together a big old, it's like crowdfunding. We crowdfund, which is a bigger or smaller word for syndication, crowdfund these for our down payment. We go buy the building together. We all own it equally pro rata based on the amount of money we can afford to put in. We'll all collect rent along the way, pro rata to what we've put in, the percentage and that's how we get in and you get started with little it's you can't take the whole apple and eat the whole thing you got to take off a little

bite-sized nugget so you want to put your 25 or 50 000 in let that grow and then in a couple years when they sell that building or colby sells that building for eight and a half nine million well he bought it for five and a half he he raised three, you get it to nine, you've raised an additional four, so you put the four with the three that they came up with down, you've actually over 2x-ed your money. You don't have to 2x the building, you have to 2x the down payment.

That's right. So 2x your money in these opportunities. And that's why it's so amazing, the bigger you go, the easier it is to double your money, because you're not having to double a five and a half million dollar building. You're having to double your down payment. I think you brought up something that's so, so valuable. So I have a five success pillar, right? Number five is time expectation on the result. People have these improper time expectations and then it kind it psychologically fucks them.

They get all weirded out. You said something that's really important. In three, four, five years when I sell this building, you've doubled your money. A lot of people want this immediate hit, the dopamine hit. That's why wholesaling is so crucial in our space. That dopamine hit. Oh my God, I just made 10 grand. This is crazy.

It hit my account in 27 days and whatever. When you're going into commercial none of this is quick right like i have a student i work with who only wants to focus in commercial when i'm doing my best job to do with him is help him realize like this isn't a 120 000 single family deal that you're going to be able to move and like and analyze, does it rent for the right amount? No, you're looking at 80 doors and you got to make sure what is the investment to bring it up to speed afterwards and to stabilize the deal and upgrade the value so that you can have an $8 million exit. And none of that is quick. But he's kind of in this rush to get his, I think he's done a couple now, but he wants

to do another one on a bigger scale. And I'm like, stop the rush component of this, right? These deals that are 5 million, 10 million or more, like I'm, he sent me one to 17 million. I'm like, this isn't like, I just call you back and say, yeah, green light, let's buy that. Like you don't just do that. Right. So I think you brought up a really good part here when getting into this space, it does take some aggressive patience right um and so that's really important for everyone to know when you're getting into more of the commercial residential side when you're doing five units or more especially if you're 80 doors or in

that platform like it just takes time you got to really run your numbers correctly so i wanted to highlight that as i do know it's it's it's a strong point that people don't, I don't think, really realize. And to your point, if you throw $100,000 into a property and three years later you double your money, like that's a 33% annualized return year over year. Like you don't find that. You're not getting that somewhere, right? Like even if you do it in four years, 25%, even if you do it in four years 25 even if you do it in five 20 year over year come on right um the people also have to recognize the value of that type of return

is immense right go ahead but it's the it's the it's the way it's the weight for it everybody wants to take their their their hard money loan of $100,000 and flip it and make a $10,000 return and doing it very, very quickly. It feels good to stack some cash up. But if you're just stacking, I mean, here comes my grantism. It's called stack it and rack it and invest it. If you have cash sitting on the side, and I'm in the cash business, in the ATM business, and Grant says cash is trash. So you want to have your cash in an investment

working for you while you're continuing to work. That way, the rich never got rich by saving. They got rich by investing. And you believe that. And we can start to talk about Grant. I mean, are you too pretty in alignment or have you spent any time with it? Because I spent a decent amount of time with them, but I don't know if you're in alignment. Some people don't agree with them, right? So I am in agreement with them. I'm not sure I'm in alignment on the don't buy your, your primary residence until you can buy it on residual income. I mean, literally, and

true total disclosure, when I sold my seven rentals in Spokane, Washington, and moved it into three rentals into California, I owed zero on those properties. And my residence in Spokane, and then I sold literally a month ago, when I sold it, I owed zero on it. And when I sold my house in Southern California last month, also I owed zero on it. And that to me, as I got to know more and more about what I was doing, that was, that was dead money, not out there actually working because when it's locked up in a home, a hundred percent where you can be, I mean, when I bought my house in California, it was a 3% fixed rate on the loan. Why did I pay it off in three years? You know, I'm a, I'm an entrepreneur and you never know if your company's going to go away. So you always, I wanted that security

and safety. Yeah. Security safety. It's the same thing, right. For me and my wife. And so we always paid things off and now we we look at things but we want to be smart about how we leverage our dollars and can we take a a money could be making five percent in something really secure today like a bank account or do we want to invest it in something that's going to return 13, 15% on an annualized basis. 20% is a great hit, but that's a five-year hold on a bigger building without probably cashflow, which I know a lot about because I have 29 of them and only about 40% are cashflowing. To me right now, a lot of people are just holding their cash because they're uncertain about what the interest rates are going

to do. So rather than have capital calls, they're just gathering capital right now and making sure that they're flush. If something goes awry, they can actually weather the storm. It's a game where you better have, if you're going to play the game of multifamily, 80 units, $5.5 million, you better have some liquidity. The lender requires you to have some liquidity, but they don't always verify that. But you're required to have a certain amount of liquidity, usually 10 to 20% of the loan value. So you want to make sure the people you align yourself with, or put your $25,000 or $50,000 in their deal as a brand new person getting into this investment space, that the people you're aligning with have the

liquidity to weather the storm. So they're not coming back to you going, man, thanks for the acquisition fee. I don't actually don't have any of my own money in the deal at this point in time, but I have yours. And now we're going to do a capital call because I don't have any money again. And we need to all lift up this property. You don't want to be in a deal with people like that. You want to be in a deal with people like when they close, they have skin in the game. I'm guessing you've maybe been in one or two of those scenarios. Have you been in a deal like that? I've seen some deals presented like that.

And I literally, I know the people that are doing the deals are the GPs putting in his 50 grand with everybody else as earnest money. They take their acquisition fee of $100,000. Now they have $50,000 to the good over here and they don't have any skin left. And the guy calls me to ask me to help him raise his last $900,000 on the deal. And I go, I go, remember your webinar when you explained it? And I go, I go about that page four of your deck. And you say you were taking this acquisition fee and now you, and I go, you didn't say you're going to be to deposit but you said you were only putting 50 grand in and i know when you got your acquisition fee you got a hundred and some odd thousand

dollars so now you're sitting up here and you want me to come and raise your last nine hundred thousand dollars ago my investors will not play with you because you have no skin in the game so when things go awry you're going to look back to my people to to fund this. And you're going to be standing over there going, I don't have any money. And I go, I can't do business with people that don't have. You have to have a little bit of money to get in on the general partnership side because you have to have the liquidity. And that's just the way I play. Not everybody plays that way. But if you're going to invest in something I'm doing you you have to know i'm 100 in with my

dollars yeah yeah i love it i you know listen i think this is why a lot of times grant again makes it very appealing but it's because essentially he's raising capital for his fund and now you're a part owner of it because it's a syndication, et cetera. But for someone, the average Joe, the guy, the old Mike, you know, doing the x-rays, very difficult to break into the space. It is not easy, right? Right. So let's use the example of this deal, and I could probably even pull it up live here on this episode, but I think the seller wants 5.387 doors, and it will need a million after i buy the bad boy um how do you look at and again

i could probably give you the real-time cash flow and out of the gate it's losing money now so it'd be a burn for a year or two and then after you um stabilize or after i would be stabilizing it, the valuation I think is eight to nine, somewhere in there. So I'm in for six and a half valuation, eight to nine. Those numbers look fine, right? But how do you specifically, what are you looking for in that deal to find that to be a good deal? Is it cap rate? Is it cash on cash, is it equity position at the end of the 24 months, is it a combination of all of it, is it, how are you looking at it? Couple things I look at is definitely cash on cash

because investors are looking for cash on cash even though there's not a whole lot of cash on cash right now in the value add space. Number one, number two, what's it gonna take to get to stabilization? Number three, how far off of market rents are we and how far do we have to go with our upgrades to get there? And what does that look like? What's that timeline? What's the horizon? Are we 12 months to stabilization? Are we 18 months to stabilization? Because you can't just go in and

boot people out to upgrade their units, or you can't upgrade their units while they're still living in them. Unless you have, like, once you have, like, if they're, so you have six of the exact identical units across this complex. You can go, okay, when this, I'm going to do four in each category. So I'm going gonna upgrade 24 units. So once you get in and measure, you can actually call and get all your stuff ordered

and stocked and measured. So then when it flips, boom, you're done in literally a week and a half, two weeks, because you have all your supplies already ready. That way you're back on the market. The longer your stuff's off the market, the longer you're back on the market the longer your stuff's off the market the longer the the longer you're you're having to feed feed that that that non-income producing unit i mean i have a i have

a partner on a 276 unit deal in nashville we bought it we're at 98 occupied today we're running right at 92 because every time units come uh get go to go offline because somebody's moving out, they, we, they were taking them down to do the, to do the renovations. And it's taking three weeks to do renovations. And I go, we finally bought all of the materials to do the renovations. We've cut our reno time from three weeks to a week and a half. And now we're actually increasing our occupancy to like 95%. And we're only taking down less than 5% of the units as they come up for renewal. So we want to keep our, that way we can keep cashflow going out to our investors because nothing is more important to an investor than that check that comes in the mail. I mean, like you, I like checks in the mail and I

like getting them when I don't have to do a lot for them. So I put a little bit of money into this deal and next thing I know, I go out to the mailbox and there's three or four checks in there. My wife's like, dude, you're the hero. You're bringing in money and we're just sleeping and that's the game we're all trying to play. Yeah. And why it's important to have a conversation with you with 8,800 doors, right? But also be speaking to the person that wants to get a door, right? It's because there is this patience level to this, like, it's not like Michael, two years ago, made this decision, stop doing x rays. This is this is a how long have you been doing the multi unit space? Three years, three years. And that's a lot faster than most, right? I was going to, I was going to help you with that one. Yeah. And it's a lot quicker than most.

And why is that? I had, I had an ATM company generating a truckload of income. So we needed to find tax advantages for us on that. So three years ago, I became a real estate professional. I took myself off of payroll at my ATM company. We increased my wife's salary to cover our income. So we had income. And then I went out and I started gathering properties. And every K-1 I gathered as a real estate professional offset her active income. Over the last three years, that's probably saved me one and a half to $1.7 million in federal income tax. I haven't paid federal income tax in three years. I'm not going to pay it this year. Because the tax benefits of owning multifamily are so significant. That's why people do it.

Yeah. 100%. I mean, listen, I bought my first self-storage this year, 2.4 million acquisition. You know, two years from now, it should be in the fours, right? So same thing, just no tenants, right? No toilets and whatnot. We have a mutual friend, Todd. I mean, he's in this. Alex is in this heavily. It's a great model.

But I say all that to say there's other reasons besides just the income to be doing this, right? So if you are a fully employed person, you should be looking for avenues for reduction in your own personal taxes. As we just talked about, Michael went full-time real estate professional on his tax return. His wife's income increased, but the idea there is as long as they were acquiring and having tax write-offs, they could use it against his wife's income. And now there's no tax return, right? Or there's no, you know, payment to the IRS, let's call it what it is. If you are fully employed listening to this,

you really need to consider just real estate in general, but also potentially multi-unit, specifically, you know, five doors or more where you break into the commercial, right? The tax ability for write-offs for years and years to come is rather insane. And we're not going to go deep into this cause we could, by the way, that's a whole nother episode. It's literally a whole, and we might do a couple of these guys. I mean, Michael is like, he's someone who I look to is, is as I get in to this, I'm quite literally likely going to send you this 5.5. So and I can kind of look at it together on whether I'm making a good decision or not.

But the idea here is it's bigger than what I think most people think. Most people think, oh, let me make money while I sleep. Let me get my retirement. Let me build wealth. Well, some of this is also let me keep the money I'm making already. That's also another big one, right? If I'm already making, let's just say, $100,000 a year, why am I giving $30,000, $40,000 away to the IRS? How do I keep it?

Well, real estate. That's how, right? And so now, quickly, because I do believe people have a threshold for attention, let's talk about the sexiness of what you have started to turn into, right? And what we were just talking about, you owning a Starbucks, which made me ultimately jealous, but it's really a real estate play. Let's talk about kind of this transition now into your focus real time right now, which I do understand buying multi-units is still going to be a focus of yours, but you also have a little bit of a pivot of what you're focusing on. Let's talk about that a little bit. So, multifamily value add, the cash flow has slowed down a little bit.

As everyone knows, the interest rates have continued to go up. And most of these deals are done on floating debt, so every time the interest rates go up, so do the payments. So everybody's been holding onto their cash and not really distributing it. So for me, looking for cash flow, we've looked into

doing some triple net lease buys. So literally on the 20th of this month, in a couple of days, I don't know when this is going to be published, so you might want to scrub that piece. But literally in a few days, I will be an owner of a plot of land and a building that Starbucks is our tenant and it's Starbucks corporate and our rent is guaranteed for the next 20 years unless Starbucks corporate goes under, which means they would have to close 12 to 14,000 stores worldwide and go out of business. Otherwise we get paid our rent and we're buying this building. And like I was talking about earlier, we're this one, you, you, I like leverage these days. We are not leveraging this property. We bought this piece of property for 2.2 million. We have five investors. We paid cash for that.

And what that's going to do is we now owe nothing. The renter will pay for everything and they pay our rent. And that's going to return about a five and a half, 6% return to each investor every single month until we sell that building. So let's just walk through the numbers for clarity. When you say 5% a month, if someone puts in a hundred thousand, I know you guys have four people putting in 500 or so, but 5% is five grand, right? Yep. You're talking annualized or you're talking true? That's annualized return. So for the year, they would make five grand broken up by 12, right?

Correct. And every single month, essentially for eternity. Correct. As long as Starbucks is in business and we own that land. And literally at year five, we get a 10% rent bump. Year 10, we get another 10% rent bump. Year 20, there's another 10% rent bump. So your income will actually go up. And if interest rates go down and drive cap rates back down,

the value of our land and building is actually going to go up. So after year five, if the market turns around like everybody thinks it's going to because it's always cyclical and right now we're in a we're in a tough time but it's going to change uh just hang on it'll it'll give it a few days it'll change again but we're going to get down the road and say year five we get that 10 rent bump and cap rates go down. If cap rates on this property go down, I think we figured out three quarters of a point from where we bought it. The value of that building goes up almost a million dollars. It's insane. So from 2.2 to 3.2. Exactly. And that's shared amongst those partners and then the increased rent. So at that point,

we may actually even sell the building to pull some capital off the table. And go do it again. And go do it again. So it's a time plane. And this is not a sprint. This is a marathon. I love what you're talking about. I love that.

Keep preaching that. And people always get to, I need it tomorrow. And I get the need it tomorrow because we have to eat. But you also want to invest something. Like I've talked to a number of flippers in our mastermind that are doing the wholesaling and whatnot. And it's like buy three or buy four, keep one. Buy four and sell three, keep one. That way you're starting to earn something on your, you start renting those, start to earn something.

Let those grow a little bit and then sell them and you get a little bit more. sell three, keep one. That way you're starting to earn something on your, you start renting those, start to earn something, let those grow a little bit and then sell them. And you get a little bit more. Amen, brother. You're getting more money. And that's the exact point I was going to say. Create income, active income, at the same time, the passive income, right? Simultaneously, it's not an or.

Too many people have this or thing. It's an and, right? Simultaneously. It's not an or. Too many people have this or thing. It's an and, right? If you're in this game, you are doing both. To Michael's point, in six months, if he has an extra million dollar valuation on this property, he might even sell it. And it may not be six months. I don't know. But let's just use that example. A year. Now he has a decision to make. Does he 1031 exchange that money into another property, another building, or does he take it as income? Right? It just his decision. The other play he could make, by the way, and you know this, but I'll say it to the audience. He could leverage, he could go after leverage because he's in a hundred percent equity as all cash in. He could

go out for leverage. And because of increase in evaluation, he could pull money into his pocket tax-free because it's basically part of the loan. I don't want to get too far down that rabbit hole because again, that's another conversation we can talk about, about taxes and leverage. But this is an and play. The commercial, the buying real estate to hold, the long-term residential, commercial, commercial, residential is what I mean by that. So five units or more. That is an and to everyone's business right now. If you are a wholesaler, if you are a fixing flipper, this is an and to it, you know, flip three, keep one or, you know, flip five in by a commercial, right? Whatever that is, whatever that equation works to you, you need to be doing this. And Michael is a great resource.

Where can everyone find you? Where do you want to send them to look you up? That's a great question. You can reach out to me at Mike at PacificCapitalLLC.com. Actually, it's Michael at PacificCapitalLLC.com, just as it sounds. Or text me. We can jump on a zoom sometime I'll give you my cell phone number it's five zero nine two seven zero six seven

zero one and the only reason I really do that is as a capital raiser and a real estate investor the number one thing for me is to be available to people and I want to be available to my investors I want to be available people that are looking to learn people that are looking to grow and if I can help in any way I way, I looked for years and years and years to get into the multifamily thing, and we finally figured out how to get in. And it's an amazing ride. I mean, literally, I was reaching out to all the people that I'm on deals with to say, hey, how are we doing with our debt and everything else?

Because people aren't really distributing. And three of the 29 deals are actually in best and final, and they're selling. So I'm going to be able to pull back a chunk of money. And on average, based on where they're saying these things are going to sell, I'll have a 30 to 37% increase in my money in under two years. I've been in multifamily for three, and these are some of the deals I bought right out of the gate. So under three years, I'll have in multifamily for three, and these are some of the deals I bought right out of the gate. So under three years, I'll have a 37% return, but these were only actually owned right around almost two. So it's not timing the market, it's time in the market. I know that you

can spell it the same, but it's time in market, and it doesn't matter what market you're in. And the other thing you want to do, just like Colby was saying buy three save one it's no it's no different than when you get your paycheck from your w-2 and you're sending five or seven percent off to your 401k or your savings account because you're saving for the rainy day you buy buy five sell three keep one that's your savings account. It's literally the exact same thing. People just don't always put those parallels together because you're always supposed to save a portion of your income. I don't want to get into tithing and all that other stuff,

but there's all sorts of other things you're supposed to be doing to give back and prepare yourself for later. I actually like to ask myself, what am I doing today to prepare, prepare for tomorrow? Am I saving enough? Am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing with the money that's coming in? Dude, I, this is impactful. You're going to come back on, dude. It's, it's one of these things that I think there's also a component of business life, uh, uh, entrepreneur mentality that, that Michael's kind of delving into a little bit here, right?

And in reality of all this, I mean, there's a lot of side hustles out there. There's a lot of ways that you can do a side hustle business and wholesaling could be one of those for sure. But there's a psychological mindset that you really do need to have as an entrepreneur, and especially even in real estate. Like I said, the dopamine hit of wholesaling is more attractive than the long three years of 37% return. A little harder to sell that. But if you really want to play in the game of income and wealth and doing it all, you've got to think a little different. It's okay to get the dopamine hits and the quick cash of wholesales, even flipping. But you've got to play more in the Michael realm.

This is where I've been headed now for the last two years of my career. I've been accumulating rentals, as I just said, jumping into storage. I'm looking at this. Quite literally, I'm going to talk to Michael about this $5 million. That's where I'm going. It was the biggest mistake to not do it 15 years ago. I've done this business 5X as long as Michael. He's accumulated way more wealth than I have in just three years. So listen to the man. Everyone got that? Cool. Michael, I appreciate you coming, brother.

Again, make sure you reach out to him if you have any further questions about this commercial. Another amazing podcast here at The Science of Flipping. You've been awesome, dude. Appreciate your time. You got it. Thanks. Later, guys. Take care. podcast here at the science of flipping you've been awesome dude appreciate your time you got it thanks later guys