The Sean McDowell Show - 13 Surprising Stats on Gen Z (What it means for YOU)

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

What does the latest research show about the beliefs and behavior of Gen Z? Today, I have Jonathan Morrow back again to discuss the latest research from the Barna Group in partnership with Impact 360, about young people today and what it means for ministry, parenting, and discipleship. READ the latest study on Gen Z, Vol 3: (https://www.impact360institute.org/) WATCH: Leading Gen Z Conference: https://learn.impact360institute.org/leading-gen-z *Get a MASTERS IN APOLOGETICS or SCIENCE AND RELIGION at BIOLA (https://bit.ly/3LdNqKf) *USE Discount Code [SMDCERTDISC] for 25% off the BIOLA APOLOGETICS CERTIFICATE program (https://bit.ly/3AzfPFM) *See our fully online UNDERGRAD DEGREE in Bible, Theology, and Apologetics: (https://bit.ly/448STKK) FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA: Twitter: https://twitter.com/Sean_McDowell TikTok: @sean_mcdowell Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmcdowell/

A new study of Gen Z reveals some surprising insights about what they believe and how they view the world. My guest today is back again, Dr. Jonathan Morrow. He's the head of Impact360, one of my favorite ministries to students, who commissioned the study with the Barna Research Group. He's back to discuss some of the findings and more. Jonathan, every time I get a new study, there's some things that surprise me and some things that don't. That was true with this study,

but there's a few things that really jumped out. I had to read a few times and say, wait a minute, are we really seeing that with this generation? Now, you and I decided we're gonna take 13 in part because we're talking about teenagers. So we'll take 13 of what you think are the most surprising findings. But you haven't revealed these to me yet.

I've read the study, so I'm aware of it. But in part, I'm really curious since you've been so just in deep with this generation, what surprises you most? So I got a few opening questions, then we'll go 13 down to one. And then I got a few questions at the end. Are you ready to rock and roll? Hey, let's do this. Always good to be with you, Sean.

Let's get to it. All right. So just remind us really quickly, who is Gen Z? What are their ages right now? Yeah. So they go up to about age 24 or 25. And according to what we did with our study with study with Barna with Impact360 and Barna, it's right in that 12 to 13 range. It's that 13 to 24 is Gen Z. And what we studied was kind of

young Gen Z, which we call teen Gen Z and young adult Gen Z. And so it's the first time we were able to split those cohorts from 13 to 17 and compare data between that and 18 and 24. So you have kind of a young Gen Z and an old Gen Z and now that's who Gen Z is born right around 1999 and 2015 or so. So in some sense, it's like junior hires through recent college grads just entering the workforce. Right. Now, one general question I have is how far do these studies take us in really helping the next generation because my son is 12 and he's like dad am i a gen z or a gen alpha and i said honestly where you're at i don't know that it makes a huge difference these are kind of generalizations so how much do they how do big studies like this help us with the particular kids in our school, in our youth group, in our homes, our neighborhood, you know, teams, etc.?

Yeah, it really matters to us at Impact360 to get this question right because we want to inspire and equip the next generation of disciples. And so if you're going to do that, you have to get as many different lenses as you can on the next generation so the way we built these studies in partnership with the varna group is we actually did focus groups at the beginning of them so you got qualitative research and that helped us shape the quantitative research which is the questions that you ask and it gives you a spotlight on different themes and trends that a move that emerge generally speaking, then you can pay attention to those things. And then at Impact360, we work with Gen Z all the time,

year round in all of our programs. So we have in one sense, a real live focus group all year round. And so what it helps us do is go, okay, are the things that we're seeing in everyday conversation with students, what we're seeing in the national trends, what we're seeing in the different demographics. So it brings all those things together with a focus group. So it really gives us insights,

kind of like puzzle pieces, starting points and frameworks. And, but like you said, sometimes the lines between even Gen Z and Gen Alpha, and we can talk about that. Like, when does that start? When is it not? You know, marketers always want to be the first one for the next generation because you want to start selling, right? So it's interesting, but there are different breaking points that are generally true that give you great starting points as moms, dads, parents, educators, leaders in the church, pastors, and that helps you go, okay, what are the issues that I definitely need to be talking about, training for, and equipping in light of? I think what's helpful about that is that you have the quantitative top-down numbers, you have qualitative bottom-up. And if you just

have quantitative data, you might not relate it to the very kids sitting in front of you. In this study are interviews of different experts. They weigh in on the data. And one of the people you interviewed said, what conversation should we have with Gen Z? It's like, have a conversation that the young person sitting in front of you wants to have. There's value in that. But on the flip side, if you're a teacher or a parent and you talk to one or two kids or 10 and you go, oh, this is what Gen Z believes, you might be generalizing too much and you need the data. So I think that balance you really find in this study that's helpful.

Now, this is the third study. It's kind of a trio. If I'm not mistaken, 2016 was the first on Gen Z and then 2020 was volume two, correct? Right. And so this is volume three. So how is this different than the first two yeah so i like to get around so david cameron and i were kidding around on this it's like the trilogy we're thinking about coming with a star wars illustration about all of them so again we had the orange one right that's volume one which really set the table it was really the landmark study on gen z and their spiritual beliefs and backgrounds kind of what is and then the second one volume two really has to do with kind of

how do we care for them, emotional well-being, things like that. Even what's happening in light of it was just right after the pandemic and in the middle of that snapshot of all of that in terms of those themes. And then now with this final volume in the trilogy around Gen Z, we really get to track really how those beliefs have been changing and what are new attitudes that are emerging as they're coming of age. And even growing into this cohort of 13 to 17 year olds on one hand and 18 to 24 year olds on the other. There's fascinating even shifts among male and female in those demographics,

as well as older and younger, which maybe we can get into. But basically it's giving us, we've been doing this for six, seven years now, partnering with Barna, taking a very detailed and long lens look at very different snapshots around this generation. So we can better be, be better positioned to really disciple them and lead them well. Yeah. Well, let's jump in because you've got 13 surprising stats and I have my own list. It'd be interesting to compare them. I guess I could tell you what I came up with at the end, but let's start with 13 and tell me the 13th stat that surprised you on this new study about Gen Z. Yeah. And as I dive in, I mean, there is so much fun stuff to talk about. So I definitely encourage people to check out this resource and get a copy of that at impact360.org.

But top 13, here we go. First one that we want to get to is nearly half of Gen Z, 46%, personally experience doubts about their religious faith. And so that's almost half are saying, yeah, I personally experience doubts about my religious faith. And so if you're going to start with Gen Z, you've got to be prepared to engage in conversations around doubt, maybe insecurity, maybe just confusion and things like that, that's weighing heavy on them. And that's an interesting insight that we have to start with. Now, if I saw that stat and I highlighted that, that jumped out, I probably would have guessed a quarter, maybe a third, because we typically think doubt emerges more as they get older. But I think maybe because of technology, these questions are getting younger

and younger and younger. So there's two ways to look at that. One is like, oh my goodness, 46% half have doubt. I'm more of an optimist in this. I'm like, that means they probably have questions and they're open to conversation. So this isn't necessarily a bad thing if we process it in the right way. How do you read that? Yeah, I would agree. I think doubt, doubt isn't the goal. Doubt is a part of the process. You want doubt on the way to a stronger faith. So doubt in and of itself isn't a virtue it's like okay you're having doubts great just sit with those we don't want to do that with students we want to go okay tell me more about that what are you feeling what are you thinking

what are your kind of your assumptions and then how do we move forward to something more substantial and then as we'll kind of talk about this is really around this area of religious faith and so these big questions of life can you know stuff about these big things, about what's true and God and everything else? And those are fascinating and awesome conversations to have with Gen Z. One comment before we move to 12, as you said, you want to get to what Gen Zers are thinking and what they're feeling. That's important.

Proverbs 25 says, the purposes in a man's heart are deep and a person of wisdom draws it out. So we assume those doubts are intellectual and that can be a piece of it. It can be the biggest piece, but oftentimes it's relational. Oftentimes it's emotional. Oftentimes it's experiential. So the wise youth leader will listen and try to understand the root of it and deal with it accordingly. Even the wise youth leader will listen and try to understand the root of it and deal with it accordingly. Even the spiritual doubt, right? Exactly. Lack of growth, things like that. Well said. Good point. All right. Your surprising stat, number 12.

All right. Number 12, nearly half of Gen Z, 47% haven't attended church in at least six months. So that's about half of Gen Z would say, I've not come into the church for six months. And so why that's fascinating is this is post 2020, post pandemic. And so in many ways, millennials would kind of react against something in the church, maybe hypocrisy, something else like that, and then disengage from it. In a lot of ways, Gen Z is like, why do I need to go to church in the first place?

Why? Because, you know, do I just watch it online like Netflix? Is that why people like, what is this thing called Christianity? It's very much post-Christian. You know, one of our first studies with Gen Z, only 4% had a biblical worldview. And that's, you know, so there's no illusions that we don't inhabit a post-Christian culture.

So the fact that church engagement is low and going down among Gen Z is something we need to pay attention to because they're like, okay, why should I even go? It hadn't been in six months. There's nothing that caused me to go. And I think that's an insight that we need to pay attention to. So is that a drop off, not only from the earlier studies, but from other generations at this stage, less church engagement? Yeah. So we didn't track that against the pre-pandemic piece in this particular data point. But what we did is, hey, have you been in church in the last six months, essentially? And basically half of them are saying, no, haven't been to church. And that would be a significant uptick from other generations there. So it's interesting to ask what follows from that, right? That means they're not going to

know the biblical stories. They're going to probably have stereotypes of what church is actually like. Clearly with Uber today, we've seen driver's licenses being less important to this generation as it was. That was like the sign of freedom when you and I were growing up. They can get to church. They can find a way. It's just not important to them. It's not a value to them. So not only not going, but probing beneath. Just tell us without being judgmental why you don't go. What would it take you to go to church? What do you think you would experience if you went to church?

These are just interesting questions to have with students to probe beneath. But as we talk about- And has anyone ever invited you to go to church? That's a great question. And so maybe they don't go because nobody's even asking them. So you didn't uncover a sense of like, I don't want to go to the church. The church is bad. That wasn't that negative. It just was, we don't go, we don't prioritize it. That seems to be the heart of it. Yeah. I mean, that was the heart of that. There are some data points which we could

talk about in the study that it's really important to Gen Z that people have alignment between what they say they believe and how they actually live. And that's an interesting data point to talk about at some point as well. So those certainly could be related, but this one's really like, have you been going and they haven't in the last six months. And I think just even that right there, it goes, okay, well, why aren't they? You know, and we ought to engage that. There was one stat I'm trying to find here that was about like 70% of Gen Zers had a positive view of the contribution of religion to the world. And I read that and I thought, oh, the new atheists are not as effective downstream now with Gen Z as we thought they would be.

But that's still not enough to get them to church. So there's something else going on, like you said. Okay. So let's shift your surprising stat number 11. All right. Number 11, we've got 63% of Gen Z agree what is morally right or wrong depends on what an individual believes. 63% of Gen Z agree what is morally right or wrong depends on what an individual believes. And so this just continues to shine a spotlight on kind of some of the moral and spiritual confusion around truth and just going, okay, you know, where does true north come from? Do you even have it on questions, especially around right and wrong? And who gets to decide that?

And I think that's a fascinating question because I think Gen Z, these are, you know, it's so funny when you see research, even being a part of all the research and those kind of things and working with a great team at Barna that really did just an awesome job with the study itself in terms of the execution of it but i always want to ask follow-up questions and sometimes okay well tell me more about that like i want to hear about that and some of those things are the opportunity that youth pastors youth leaders parents get to go hey tell me more about what do you really think about this and so i think stats like this also tee up really good

conversations like that what i would do when i when I was teaching high school a couple of times, I'd just throw the stat on the board and I'd say, does this surprise you? Do you agree? Do you disagree? What do you think these students are thinking when they answer this way? Why are they thinking this way? And just create a conversation around it. Now, I have to say that stat didn't surprise me. In fact, it actually surprised me that it wasn't higher because we've seen these kind of stats going back to our generation, Gen X and millennials, the number who don't believe in universal truth. Now, the way we answer this is so dependent upon the way the question is asked. So sometimes it's like, oh, we just have different practices across different cultures. Doesn't mean I'm a total moral relativist and don't believe there's right and wrong. So I'm with you. I wanted to probe this a little further. But I do think as a whole, this tells us there's at least somewhat of a significant shift from

truth, at least moral truth or religious truth being outside of us that we discover and conform our lives to, as opposed to looking within for truth and expecting the world to conform to me and affirm me. That's how I read it. Before we move on to 10, do you see it that way or differently? Yeah, no, I think it's important. I think it also highlights just the continued need for us as we disciple students to go, OK, what is truth? How do you know it? And again, don't assume that they have categories around morality, even though they might have strong emotions or even a visceral reaction against something. You're going to have to really kind of tease out some of those intuitions and attach it to this question of objective, subjective truth. OK, what do you think? Is that true? Is this always wrong? Is this kind of tease out some of those intuitions and attach it to this question of objective, subjective truth. Okay. What do you think? Is that true? Is this always wrong? Is this kind of wrong?

You know? So I think that, that really, for me, what that does is goes, we need to make sure we're talking about truth, how you know it, and really the implications of that for students. All right. So before we shift to 10, you told me that stats one and two are going to surprise, maybe shock me. We will see. But let's move to number 10 surprising stat. Go. Yeah. All right. Number 10, a strong majority of Gen Z, 85% agree their generation spends too much time online.

So 85%. So, again, that's not the adults in the room. That's not mom and dad going, get off your phone. You know, that's not, that's not the adults in the room. That's not mom and dad going, get off your phone. You know, that's not any of that. It's they're going, Hey, we, all right, let's, let's be honest. We spend too much time on our phone. And I think awareness is a great first step for change and transformation. And so if this generation is beginning to see that, i think that does provide us with the opportunity to have some important conversations around okay can we all at least

agree and honestly probably all of us that we all spend too much time online in some ways and so i think that's a great leveler of a good conversation that doesn't create a defensive posture. Again, I want our audience to notice that you keep saying conversation, conversation, conversation, not lecture, but a conversation and a dialogue that surprised me. If you asked me before the study, I probably would have said 50, maybe up to two thirds if I was feeling generous, but 85%. I don't think we saw that early on with say millennials or with with older gen zers but it also shows that it's not really changing their behavior at all they're just aware of it

isn't that kind of what the data shows yeah yeah they're still addicted they're still online a ton they're still in all those things but at least there's a growing tension that perhaps may reach a tipping point if we can begin to kind of spend some time around that. Because it's at least better to know that, hey, they at least see this. So I don't have to make that felt need a real need. I mean, that real need a felt need. I have to go, OK, you agree. So what are we going to do about that? And that's an important conversation I think we can have. So really quickly, if I was leading a discussion in my class, I would do a poll with

my students and say, how many of you think your generation spends too much time online? Let's write it down. And then I put it on the board and I'd say, what do you think the national average is? And have them guess. And then I'd compare it and say, why are we more? Why are we less? What's going on? And that's how I would create a conversation about this. But let's move to number nine. Tell me your ninth surprising stat about Gen Z. Yeah. And I think this is a really interesting one. Over half, 54% of Gen Z strongly agree that in-person relationships are more valuable than digital relationships. Now, I think two things are insightful.

One, it's a majority. Two, it gets the strongly agree category, which means on the scale, they're saying, no, this is really significant. And I think what that's doing for us is reminding us about something of what it means to be made in god's image because we are embodied people we're embodied souls right and part of what happened in 2020 and all that um you know that all the lockdown all that stuff it said okay what really matters and it's like no in-person relationships that's scarce that's valuable that's important and it's actually more valuable than digital and so I think that's another data point that helps go okay why do you think that is because as we get in this

technologically more and more advanced uh Society when more and more um ai's coming online we talk more about that all the things the fight for the Christian is going to be how do we fight for an embodied faith where we're together right second john you know john writes the letter he's like i would rather be with you in person it would be better but i'll settle for writing you this letter and there's an element in which you know we miss things when we're not with people in the same room face to face talking and i think part of of all the loneliness stuff we see, a lot of the anxiety and worry and relational disconnect, part of that is because digital relationships don't cut it

when it comes to true connection. And I think that's a trend that's starting to emerge. Now, you and I have always believed that, no surprise, but to see kind of younger people come to that awareness, whether it's because of mental health or whether it's because of the pandemic, that's a positive trend. Now, I do wonder, and you can tell me anything I'm wrong about this, and the question is kind of framed, what do you value more, online or do you value kind of in person? Seems to me that's framing of that question is probably

somebody that's a Gen Xer or older, because I tend to think in those categories less than I think Gen Zers do. It's much more fluid. So I had my daughter's volleyball team over last night in high school, and they were all hanging. And at one point, I looked out, and they're kind of on their phones. They're talking, but they're through their phones. And it's just natural for them in a way. If you saw people our age, they wouldn't be doing that. And I'm not making a judgment here. That's a whole separate point, but they're much more fluid. It's not one or the other. It's kind of both how they see things. Do you see it that way or would you disagree? Yeah, I think even watching a lot of teenagers and how they relate, kind of that idea of Sherry Turkle, kind of that alone together sometimes when you know they all start hanging out the conversation dies and they're all on their

phones and then it comes back is i think part of it though is that i think they realize in the strongly agree language i think really kind of tips in that favor that no there's something more meaningful when we're actually together in this that's different even if we're laughing at a meme together in the same room together with a phone with a device with a tool that's different than just doing an online interaction and I think I think they're hungry for that and I think that's something to think about not only in our families in our churches and our youth youth groups because what's scarce is embodied relationships there's tons of digital which is you know has its place it's good um it's certainly a good tool so i

think that's important good i found as a whole that studies seem to show that kids a majority want boundaries with technology if they're reasonable we state why and we hold them to it in the family, in the classroom, et cetera. And so this increased awareness only strengthens that. All right, let's shift to surprising stat number eight about Gen Z. Go. Number eight, Gen Z has strong and competing emotions around artificial intelligence, AI. Now what's fascinating here is 35% say they find AI exciting and 34% say they find it scary. And so we have a chart in the book, which kind of goes in and it talks about, you can almost see it equally divided positive and negative around different

aspects around AI. They're like, no, this is a really scary thing and it's a really exciting thing. And I think they're trying to figure that out because it's all brand new. And I know we're all trying to figure that out. It's like, wow, that's really interesting. That's fascinating. I didn't know you could do that.

Maybe we shouldn't do that. Maybe that's not a good idea. Maybe that robot that's gonna be helping us out around the house is gonna take things over. It's almost like people haven't seen the movie Terminator I don't know why you know they're like but so I think I think we're at the cusp of the AI Revolution and generative AI and I think Gen Z is on the precipice of that looking over going that's scary and exciting and they they're going to need guidance we're all going to have to figure

out this together in a lot of ways, but their generation is going to be at the forefront of that because it's going to be a part of everything. So for example, like the new, all the new smartphones, the new Apple phone, generative AI, it's baked in and it's analyzing you all the time now. So it's like, it's just fascinating. So again, so I think just recognizing that's going to be an area that we need to engage well. And also in a redemptive way, we can't just go, oh, no AI, we're not going to do it. That's not going to work. And it's not going to be possible with many things that are going to be in our culture and society. And so the question is, okay, how do you redemptively use ai are there

boundaries uh we asked them about it like should you should you use it on a test have you used it should you use it on the eight should you use it on a standardized test like the act or sat i mean could you imagine you know it's like yeah me and me and the ai bot did really well we're getting into harvard it's gonna be awesome you know i mean so it's like there's a lot of questions around ai for this generation and i think they're I think the data shows they're really kind of going, I'm excited and I'm scared all at the same time. So I had two thoughts about this AI section. It definitely jumped out to me. Number one, I kind of thought this was a positive takeaway for Gen Z.

I go through a study like this and I make little positive signs anytime there's a good trend because sometimes we can get lost in the negative things. And it seems like at this stage, there's a healthy sense of like, there's a lot of potential here, but I'm worried what it could do. There seems to be a good balance of positive, but also skepticism. I'm like, that's healthy in the way it's described here. But I thought this was interesting. It said the majority of Gen Z say it's wrong to use AI when it comes to things that could be seen as cheating, such as taking a standardized test, 61%. Like that seems obvious that 39% say on a standardized test, you can use AI. I'm like, hello, taking a test they've not prepped for and completing an entire school assignment for them 65% and of course the keyword there is

entire entire so how much can ai do what does it look like none of that is fleshed out and not that it should be here but these are really important conversations to have can you use chat gpt how much and i guess i said about 50 percent use chat gpt or at least have in this study i think that's only going up if you do like a volume four in another four years that's gonna go way up but that that's something we need to flesh out more in relationship and that stood out to me yeah and just one thing to think about sean for people to think about here that's really important is it's one thing for you and i who've already been in through education through learning how to do certain things to use a tool that's more efficient

it's completely a different thing for someone who's never acquired the ability to do that thing to then automatically outsource that to someone else and And so, for example, here's a bold prediction. We'll see if it comes true. I would say in the next five years, you will likely see the foreign language requirement dropped from high school curriculum and college admissions in majors. Why? Because everything through Google Translate, everything else. And so why would people take the time to learn a language? If, and so I'll be curious, I will be generally curious if that just drops off because people won't see the benefit of learning the language and honestly, what the, what the good that does for you and your brain and your way of thinking and understanding

growth. And so I just think those are just small examples of some of the bigger questions that we're going to see coming down the road. I mean, we're already seeing my son can't write in cursive. He's in sixth grade. And why does he need to write in cursive? Like, what's the point? I think to strengthen your argument is what this study shows. There's a very instrumental view of education. Help me get a job. Help me be successful. It's the ends. And even amongst Christians, it's like developing a Christian worldview. I can't remember if it was like 15% or maybe 20%. It was really low. So we've lost this intrinsic value. So if I have a tool to do foreign language,

there's no value in seeing the world differently, like all the cases we can make for it being important. That's an interesting trend, folks. If it happens, you know you heard it here first. All right, let's keep going. I think we're on number six, if I'm not mistaken. So tell us your sixth surprise stat, volume three. Actually, we're on seven.

We're on seven. Like on seven like i said seven seven this is live guys this is good all right so 45 of gen z say they personally know someone who identifies as transgender and that's up from 29 when we did our initial study in 2016 and so what that shows us is the increasing now in some ways I was a little surprised it wasn't higher I agree but we do see a jump and what it does show is just how pervasive this is number one and number two this is not a theoretical question for our kids and our students. And so if you are not talking about how they should engage from a biblical worldview perspective with truth and grace and compassion and love, biblically defined, then they're just going to default to what

everybody else is doing because this is a part of their world growing up, Gen Z. And that's something that I think everyone has to be aware of if you're going to disciple and lead Gen Z well. That stat also jumped out to me. I mean, it's basically a 50% increase from about 30% to 45%. So that's a huge jump in four years. If I guessed, I probably would have said about two-thirds. But it kind of depends on what does it mean by no. Do I know of someone at my school? Do I have a teammate whose sibling is? There's probably some equivocation in people's minds of how well they know that might affect that stat.

But nonetheless, the way you framed it is exactly right. I think earlier generations, it was maybe in a movie. There was maybe a hint that some kid was gay growing up. There was no hint of somebody being transgender. I don't know what I would have thought of that in the 90s remotely. Now it's personal, not to mention online. So if we're thinking, oh, 55% of kids don't know somebody who's transgender. They do see them on TikTok. They see them on Netflix. This is a part of our culture.

And that just shapes the way this generation, Christian or not, sees and thinks and perceives the world. It's not an issue out there. It's just one that's ever present to them. And I think this study brings it out. Yeah, for sure. And so as a youth leader, mom and dad, a parent, if you've not begun to think biblically about this, make sure you start to prioritize that because they want and need input and insight on how to navigate these relationships well, wisely, with truth, caring for people, you all of that so that's just really important that we don't just go well that's just something happening somewhere else with somebody else's kids or with somebody

else's church or with somebody else's school because that's that's just not not living in reality and that applies to parents at a christian school and who homeschool this is the new reality we live in all right number six surprising stat go yeah 40 of gen z strongly agree that people should have the freedom to identify however feels most true to them so 40 of gen z strongly agree that people should have the freedom to identify however feels most true to them. And so you see this strong internal definition of the self. And that in some ways is that conflict and at odds with some of the other data points that we're going to talk about, because one of the big themes that we talked about in this Gen Z volume three study was around gender, sexuality, and a lot of the different questions that surround

that for this generation. But from that initial intuition, they're like, you know, yeah, people should have freedom to do that when it comes to this question. You know, I have so many questions to follow up, like with students who say this. I would say when you say the freedom, do you mean the legal freedom? Do you mean the freedom that we have to affirm how that person identifies? Like those are some questions that need to get fleshed out in conversation. 40% strongly agree. That's a significant majority.

Now, do you have it in front of you? If not, that's okay. Those who kind of somewhat agree and slightly agree. I don't have that right in front of me right now. So it's a big study. I don't have all of them memorized, but I can come back to it another time. No, no, that's totally fair. But strongly agree is a noteworthy data point for sure on that.

Okay, fair enough. So you don't have the stats of 12 to 14-year-olds in Wisconsin who are Hispanic who agree – no, I'm just kidding. Obviously, you don't have that memorized. Don't have that one memorized. Just messing with you. Okay, number, surprising stat on Gen Z. Go. Yeah. Number five, 52% of Gen Z agree with the statement, it is important for the good of society to preserve the sexual binary of male and female. So that's an interesting question because a majority of Gen Z

agree with that statement that it's important for the good of society to maintain the sexual binary of male and female. While at the same time, 40% strongly agree that they should, you know,

be able to have the freedom to identify, but they're like, no, a majority agree that it's good for society to preserve this sexual binary. I don't know what stat I would have given if you had asked me this before reading it. I probably would have flipped it on some sense. I think what surprises me is that there's a majority, but a slim majority, 52%, but 40% strong on the other side, which means there's probably what 8% that are just undecided or in the middle or don't know. You don't hear that narrative a lot in the culture

that the majority of young people know. I would ascribe that to the fact that probably two things. One is just written on our hearts. We know males and females are different. We know moms and dads are different. We know boys and girls are different. And that has to be talked out of us. And that takes a lot of effort. But I think more recently in say the past four to eight years, we've heard stories of people like Riley Gaines. We've heard stories of people going, wait a minute, this actually is not best for society. We've heard detransitioners, which has probably given some pause to percentage this generation. I'm totally guessing. What would you say on that if you had to? Yeah, I think that's part of the narrative. And honestly, one of the things that we wanted to

kind of raise is, look, anytime you do a study like this you're going to have interesting data and it's either going to lean on this side or this side or what you expect or what you didn't expect but data can also shape public opinion in how you share it frame it and do those kind of things but you're not going to see a ton of headlines in the mainstream kind of legacy media. That's like the majority of Gen Z thinks that the sexual binary is a good thing. Like you're just not going to see that on AP news. You're not going to see that on your little Apple update on your, on what's trending. You're going to see some other framing of that. And so it's important

for students. And I don't know about you, but like we do apologetics, we do worldview, all those things we've written on, we speak we teach on we studied on but I found myself increasingly over the last five years having to just highlight obvious things before I could get to more substantial things like you know male and female is a good thing that's it's a good idea because it's God's idea with our kids like tucking them in at night it's a good thing that God made you a girl that's a good idea because it's God's idea with our kids, like tucking them in at night. It's a good thing that God made you a girl. That's a good idea because it's God's idea. Marriage is not something we need to be embarrassed about. God created that, right? That's Jesus view in Matthew 19. So, so again, some of those things are, we can talk about the biblical and we can also go, yeah. And, and a majority of Gen Z, a majority of teenagers still agree with that. So that's, that's a good thing. You're not the only one who believes this because sometimes people don't say those things out loud anymore for

fear of being either just cancelled or made fun of or called transphobic or some other thing like that i'd like to know why this generation thinks it's a good thing for society but of course that's going to involve some conversation and probing further all right number four surprising stat yeah and in in this theme a majority of gen z 51 believe that transgender athletes should play on the team that matches their birth gender so this is another majority question it's like the majority of gen z thinks that biological sex matters to sports. Like we're seeing this in college volleyball right now where teams are refusing to play against a team that has a biological male on the team competing against females. And even pressure right now. I think the University of Nevada, I think I saw the team itself, the girls volleyball team came out and said, we're not going to play. And then I think the administration is backtrack. And so we need more people being courageous,

but more Gen Z is going, no, this, this is not the case. And what's also interesting when you split the cohorts of young Gen Z and old Gen Z, um, 54% of high schoolers agree with that. So even old slightly more agree because they're the ones having to compete and share lockers and different things with them and then one other fascinating thing here so this is kind of a bonus stat is the way this question was framed um it was left with kind of an unsure percentage okay and 20 and 22 percent were unsure on this question which means one of two things i guess it can mean other things but which means one of two things. I guess it can mean other things, but I think one of two main things. And that is one, they really are persuadable on this issue. And they're like, I don't know. And so that's, you know, keep talking about and why

that's a good thing and why this is not a safe thing for to be competing this way. Or two, they know what they really wanted to put and didn't put it because they didn't want to. It's like, I don't know if this thing's truly anonymous. It is. I mean, it's rigorous. It's done very well. But there's so who knows exactly what's at that uncertainty. But 22% are open to being persuaded on that particular question. And so I think that's significant as we think about this generation

as they grow up, because there are very real issues around, there's a ton of competing ideologies, everything from feminism, combining, like colliding with transgender ideology and all these different things. Because it's like, well, go women. You know, like, what is a woman? And then should they compete with men but you take men and put them in women's sports so all these ideas which used to be kind of operating at the side of cultural conversation in society is now they're all overlapping and they're all biblical worldview questions and so that's why as a side note as christians we can't not engage the public square and say true things out loud just because

they might be politically interpreted but their worldview questions before their political questions and so i think all of those things are kind of coming together so frame it again about 51 believe what say exactly what the study shows 51 believe that transgender athletes should play on the team that matches their birth gender. Okay. So that doesn't mean that 49% think the opposite of that. That's not what follows. So this part of the stat really jumped out to me. It said one fifth of Gen Z, 22% feel biological males who identify as females should be allowed to compete in women's sports because no one's debating if biological females should be able to compete with men. In high school, we had a girl, two girls who played on the football team. I was like, OK, if they can hang and go, I have no problem with that.

Doesn't bother me at all. That's really the rub. So a majority are against it, but only 22% are for it. That's a really significant addition to your point. And there's that 22% who are unsure. And so that's even, so that's significant for this generation. Are we on four or three? I think we're on three, right? We're down to three. We're on the three. Yeah. Three. All right. We're getting close to your most surprising one. So tell us your third.

Yeah. Yeah. So third one is this. 66% of Gen Z agree that I need factual evidence to support my beliefs. Now, I think this is fascinating. And again, we could put the list together in so many different ways, but I thought this was fascinating because I think in is fascinating. And again, we could put the list together in so many different ways. But I thought this was fascinating because I think in this generation, there's this competition between feeling and thinking. And I think some of the thinking moments with enough visibility and light and reality testing are starting to poke through enough where they're like, yeah, I need factual support my beliefs like i need to know if i can trust that source i need to know if i can trust the evidence i need to know if i can trust that belief like what is true and i think that's a great insight because i think sometimes um in our churches and in our youth groups we don't talk about evidence because we're like they don't care about evidence and they're like nope they do talk they do care about evidence and we just have to

make it clear to them the implications and the connection points around the evidence and what's at stake in that but they do care about evidence and i think that's a significant data point okay so i saw that too that jumped out to me but here's another stat that I think we need to keep in mind. This is on page 77. It said nearly three in five Gen Z agree there are facts we can know about scientific questions. So the stat you gave, they want evidence for scientific questions. But not religious or moral questions, only one in four. So there still seems to be this split that Francis Schaeffer talked about, I don't know, 50, 60 years ago, where when there's the fact value split, maybe science, maybe history, maybe math, give me evidence. But faith and religion, we're back to

this internal, I believe it, subjective approach. So that's where if we're going to talk about evidence for faith, we've got to first clarify that there is objective moral truth and they know it. And that religious issues deal with objective realms in history. They intersect with objective claims in science at times. And these are questions of knowledge, not just feeling. Agree, disagree. How do you see it? Yeah, I think the Schaeffer does upper story, lower story, fact value split, also scientism, which is the belief that only what we can know is from the hard sciences. So I think that is a tension point we have to continue to educate on, like we learned earlier about truth. We got to okay what counts as knowledge and

what are the right reasons to believe something depending upon the question you're asking a historical question is answered in a different way than a moral question and a scientific question and those are things those are opportunities for us all right man you told me this top two were going to surprise me so i'm pumped to see tell me your number two surprising stat on Gen Z. Yeah. So number two, the majority of Gen Z agrees strongly, that's 58%, that it is wrong for the government to force someone to say something that they don't believe. Wow. It is wrong. The majority of Gen Z agrees strongly that it is wrong for the government to force someone to say something they don't believe. that's 58%. That is significant. I think that was one of the things as I got just as we asked about all different areas of life, that

one came back and was like, that's fascinating because we're in an era of kind of free speech and suppression and Twitter and X and Elon Musk and this whole conversation around so many things, right? And I think that's fascinating because I think that's a very important and hopeful sign for Gen Z to begin to arrive at the truth, but also begin to go how to think through things. But also just that's not a narrative that you're going to hear coming off of a different news channel typically on that particular topic. So Gen Z's going, yeah, I don't, yeah, we shouldn't do that. So there's a little bit of a tension here because I saw on page 41 that Gen Z is split about the use of preferred pronouns. 49% say in order to show respect, it's important to use a person's preferred pronouns. 39% said one should have the

freedom to choose whether to use a person's preferred pronoun so they don't violate the conscience. So on the issue of sports, it's a small minority who say biological males should be able to compete in sports, maybe one in five. But almost half say, to show respect, we should use a preferred pronoun. So is there a difference between saying what the government should coerce because they're concerned about free speech, but they're saying with that said, if you want to be respectful, here's what you still should do. Not a large majority, but almost half of Gen Zers still feel like government regulations aside, this is how you should treat people yeah i think it's a good question to rate to raise because again again you're seeing a snapshot into the mind of gen z where all these ideas haven't fully kind of kind of sunk into their slots yet i think of like okay if that's true does that mean this can be true and so i think they're against compelled speech by the

government but they're going but okay but i think i could against compelled speech by the government, but they're going, but okay, but I think I could use my speech to be respectful if that's what I mean by that in that case. And I think they're trying to figure some of those things out. And then you could ask further questions. Well, what if the government says you always have to in every circumstance, those would be different ways you could ask the question, or if we were in a focus group or I was sitting down with a group of students, I'd be like right well what here's a scenario what do you think about that because that's what I love doing I know you do that too is okay let's reality test this idea this scenario let's let's what do you think about this and so but I think it's I think

it's really insightful that they're going no compelled speech is not not a good idea I would say these stats are the beginning of a conversation because I've had so many conversations with students where I bring out these tensions and with very little work, some will go, you know what? You're right. The government should coerce pronoun speech to show respect or the others go switch in the other direction. It's not like these convictions are deep and thought through. They're just answering what comes to their mind, which is fine. That's important to keep in mind with these stats. Kids' level of confidence in them vary. And of course, some of these stats reflect that. All right. I've been waiting since we decided to do this interview. What is your

number one biggest takeaway on Gen Z from volume three? Yeah. I went back and forth on this. There's a lot of different things we could have put here but i think the one that i wanted to put here is this one among all gen z nearly two and three that's 64 percent report having prayed to god within the last seven days and so what i think that says and that's not christian gen z that's not any but that's that's% of Gen Z report having prayed to God within the last seven days. And there's another stat in here, which talks about 71% of Gen Z is believing that there is a God or higher power. So I think this really speaks to a couple of things, the openness of Gen Z in some ways now to anything and everything, but even God, but also that prayer idea. And I think that is a fascinating way to engage in Z. I would not have expected that number that high.

And if you look at every other practice, like reading the Bible is less than half of that and all these other areas talking to me. And so by a large margin of all the different spiritual practices, all the different things you could do, prayer was by far and away the top one. And I think that really could give us an insight into some ways to engage Gen Z. Like, what are you praying for? Like, when you talk to God, like, what are you asking? What do you need? What do you want? Why think, like, because even some of them may not even believe God exists, but you're still praying.

So you can tell me more. There's a, there's an openness. There's there, they want something. And so there was a lot of different things I could have put at number one, but that one was a significant surprise to me for Gen Z. I love that you put a positive one there. Now, I guess if an atheist or skeptic is watching this, they might interpret that differently, but you and I as Christian parents and youth leaders in different ways interpret that positively. My questions for Gen Z is,

you know, if I'm leading a discussion, I'm going, okay, you know, how many of you just pray? What was it within the past week or daily? What was the metric? 64% report having prayed to God within the last seven days. Within the last seven days.

Okay, how many of you have prayed to God in the last seven days. Within the last seven days. Okay. How many of you have prayed to God in the last seven days? What do you think the average is for your generation? And then compare it and talk about it. And then just ask questions. When is it that you pray? Why do you pray then? What do you pray for? How long are your prayers? Who do you pray for have you ever had an answered prayer like what a great opportunity just to talk and probe even with non-christians non-practicing what prayer is and why we pray that's such a good foothold to begin a conversation with people i love that you put that at number one now i in a second i want to ask you some of the other surprising things that came out in this but i'll tell you one of the surprising things to me

this is on page 82 it said this it said 81 percent of gen z uh hold on uh boom boom boom boom boom so it says 81 percent of gen z practicing practicing Christians hold the traditional view of God as the all-powerful, perfect creator of the universe. Fine. Notably, though, 5% indicate a belief in multiple gods and 4% subscribe to the unconventional idea that everyone is God. Now, I've seen just in some conversations recently kind of polytheism jump up in a way it hasn't in the past. I didn't expect that. I don't know if I'm just observing it and it's not really an objective metric, but that

jumped out to me. I want more research done on that. What do you mean by polytheism? Is this growing? If so, why? If there's a higher percentage than new age, I would have thought that was way higher than polytheism. So I don't know what to make of that, but that's now on my radar. I'm paying attention to that. And that jumped out really is just fascinating to see kind of, okay, how does this generation view God? How do they view prayer? How do they view evidence and truth and speech and life and meaning? I mean, that's, and those are the questions that matter. So it's

so fun to, we get to engage them around that. So David Kinnaman, obviously president of Barna Research Group. We lived on the same floor at Biola. He's on the board at Biola. We've been friends forever. I don't know how many studies of Barna I've read, probably a few dozen over the years, but I've never asked you or him this question. I don't know why. How much more data is there that's not included in a study like this? Is this a quarter of it? Is this 90% of it? Is this all of it? What other data, how much is out there if you had to guess? Yeah. And you know, it's a fascinating question, Sean, because people who care about asking these questions, you're going to get a ton of data and you can analyze it in a lot of different ways, layers, cross sections, and there's never enough room. I mean, we're trying to make this accessible. So, I mean, this is a great book.

I mean, it's about basically about 100, 110 pages, visual data and all that stuff. But there's probably 25% of stuff that we weren't able to put in here. Otherwise this thing would be a lot longer and everything else. And so sometimes, you know, trying to make sure that people can engage the data. So it probably depends on the study, but yeah, there's a lot of data that sometimes just doesn't make it in there for a lot of different reasons that just for room and other things like that or the particular themes, because you can't emphasize everything in every study. And so that's true.

You got to make sense of it and tell a certain narrative. So is there anything else interesting that's not in your top 13 or maybe anything interesting that didn't make it into the study? Yeah. And so there's lots of interesting things. I mean, one of them was you kind of highlighted on earlier that was nearly 57 percent agree that there are facts that we can know about scientific questions, but not religious or moral questions. So I was like, OK, that's interesting. That was that was surprising and interesting to me about how they approach knowledge. One fascinating one, we asked all sorts of different questions about their beliefs about different things and culture and

everything else. But this one was kind of a fascinating and interesting one. But among Gen Z, nearly two thirds, 65% say that when it comes to race and college admissions, race and ethnicity should not at all be used as a factor. And that was fascinating because that was around the time of the affirmative action case and Supreme Court and things like that. And that would have not been what I would have expected in that. Now, of course, there's a lot of other questions you could ask and fascinating things around those questions, but that would be not what I would have expected. I thought it was just an interesting data point that it's like, no, that shouldn't be the defining piece of how you do college admissions.

And so that was an interesting thing. Let me probe on that. So the study came out in 2024. So was all the research done in 2023 or does it go back to 2022? 2023 would be the year that was. 2023. Okay. So we're two to three years out of the pandemic, the tragic death of George Floyd. And what was the stat again? Say it again. I'll just make sure I got it. Yeah. Yeah. 65% of Gen Z say that when it comes to race and college admissions, race and ethnicity should not at all be used as a factor. So it's kind of, it was on college admissions. And so I thought that was an interesting data point. Now you could ask questions about legacy admissions. You could ask all sorts of different things, but it's, it's an interesting data point that I think is

just worth more, you know, more, more questions and thinking about at some point. So I thought that was a fascinating insight. It's not like two thirds said it should play a minor role. Two thirds said it should play no role. That's, that's interesting. Anything else that jumped out to you that was interesting? Yeah, this one was fascinating. We asked what the following causes that Gen Z cares about and which are most important to you. That's the of the following causes, which are most important to you. Protecting animal welfare was 36 percent and promoting pro-life policies was 15 percent. Wait, animals was what percent? Protecting animal welfare was 36%.

Okay. And promoting pro-life policies was only 15%. Now, I thought what was interesting about that was just the trend of, again, animals are've got two dogs nothing wrong with animals but it was just interesting to go almost more than double which which following causes are most important to you protecting animal welfare was 36 and then promoting pro-life is at 15 i think that's just an interesting dynamic especially especially in a post-Roe world when people are making the case state by state. And a lot of this, like how front and center is this for Gen Z or not? I think those are just fascinating questions. There was plenty of other questions. One of them, you want to say something about that?

Yeah. So one thing I found is if you ask, like you give a list of what causes and tell us which causes are most important that's different when you just ask a young person tell me the causes that are most important to you get a very different metric so if we ask students how important is god to you a high percentage traditionally say oh it's important it's very important but if you ask a student what's most important to you god rarely. So, so much of the answers just depend upon the way it's framed. It's not like 36% of this generation are animal rights activists as I see it. But it just shows, as you and I would argue, a very misplaced understanding of priorities when asked to list these out. That's how I see it. Yeah. And just even what gets the emphasis in the narrative and what are we championing and

talking about in these different ways? And I think that's fascinating as well. One of them, the last one that I'll share is we see in the trend, and people can dive into the details at impact360.org on this, but like in terms of the book, but you know, of the two cohorts, the young Gen Z, teen Gen Z, 13 to 17 is, and then 18 to 24, you see kind of the, the female and the male diverging in that second cohort. So for example, your highest degree of nuns, N-O-N-E-S's are females in the age of that older cohort, 18 to 24 range. And so, whereas you're not seeing that same divergence happening in male population as they get, as Gen Z gets

older there. And so in fact, you're seeing in some ways the secularization of older Gen Z females. That's the trend that's kind of showing up in the data when we look at that. And that's something that's, you kind of see that kind of shifting and even what issues that male and females care about and things like that. So I think that was fascinating. Two other quick things we don't have time to go into, but the pandemic, we see this, the data kind of shows an increased interest in spiritual questions and openness since the pandemic. That's a positive thing. This one stat that says, I think it was 88% of black teenagers describe God as being very important in their life,

far and above any other racial metric i'm going to go what is it in the black family what is it in the black church what's going on there obviously you don't probe it here but that is such an interesting question to figure out what's behind that there's just so many nuggets like this i want to explore but maybe tell us how do you envision people using this study? Outside of the information, it's just interesting for nerds like us that want to study this and think about it. How can people best put it into practice to actually disciple Gen Z? Yeah, and I think that's the million-dollar question, and that's honestly why you and I do what we do as well as the nerd stuff,

is we care about seeing students follow Jesus and come to know Jesus and follow Jesus. And so what research does, if it's done well, is it gives you the lens and the gift of awareness. It gives you the awareness of topics to talk about, shaping influences and shaping forces. So on one side of that equation, you need to go, if I'm not talking about sexuality and gender and identity in my discipleship and my formation of students and our kids and things like that, I need to be. And then also, if I'm going to engage people who don't believe what we believe, what Jesus taught and said, and when he claims to be, I'm the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through him. How do we make that message clear in a society with all of these different assumptions? And then also, in a very real sense, what is your roadmap for how you're going to build your plan for what you're going to talk about in your youth ministry, in your school? For Christian school, how Christian of a school do you want to be?

Is it just closing prayer after math class and have a chapel? Is that Christian enough? Well, they're being formed in dramatic ways. And so have you talked about some of these themes? Are you talking about a biblical worldview and how it applies to these things? And so in many ways, it gives kind of a way of entry into the conversations that you need to be having with students and thinking about how you're building curriculum, how you're building plans, how you're building objectives, and even just honestly, the conversations we have around dinner and what's on their hearts and minds when we talk to them. So in many ways, this can serve as a conversation starter. There's so many things we didn't even get to talk to talk into,

for example, like one of them, they come to mom far quicker than they'll ever come to dad. Like that's like that moms are awesome. I love them. That's great. But it also, it's not a zero sum game, right? Moms don't have to lose for dads to win. And right now in our culture, dads aren't winning in the sense of just in terms of kind of how they're viewed, where they find meaning and purpose, men, masculinity, all that. So again, fascinating things that we just need to be aware of if we're going to lead and disciple Gen Z well. Three things for people to think about. Number one, just getting this information out there, like we're doing right here. People might not have a big YouTube channel, but write a blog,

write a review, post something on Facebook that surprises you. It just starts a conversation, gets people focusing on the next generation. For me, when I was teaching full-time, I could have taken this and gotten 25 lessons out of it and just put stats on the board. What do you think? Why did it come to this conclusion? What does the Bible say? And just talk through these issues, not lecture, but talk through. And third, every morning with my son, almost every morning, we did it this morning, he's 12, I'm making breakfast and we've been reading the Gospel of John. I'm going to bring in a few of these and go, hey buddy, this is like, you know, your age and kind of up. What do you think about this? Does this surprise you? What are your thoughts? And just have a conversation.

I think this is really well done. I think it's a gift to the church. And for those of us who care about the next generation, we got to focus on it. Now, one last question I have for you, then I want you to tell people where they can find this report. I want to know what you think are the biggest lies this generation is tempted to believe. And I'll tell you, I've often said, I think that freedom is doing whatever you want. Live out how you feel, you be you. And this report kind of reveals when it comes to moral and spiritual things, that's how they approach it. But there's another one that jumped out to me that's been on my metric more and more. And either tell me what you think about this, or if you have a different one you'd focus on, is there's a section on mental health and well-being, which

is huge to this generation. Very, very helpful. And it says this, it says almost one quarter of these with no faith have a goal of getting married. Only 24% of those without faith want to get married compared to nearly one third of practicing Christians. Similarly, having children is more of a priority for practicing Christians than for others, 31% to 22%. So of Christian Gen Zers, let this sink in, 32% talk about wanting to get married. That's a goal. And 31% want to have kids. Non-Christians, it's in the 20 percentage. But then they talk about what's important to them, their well-being, 65% being happy, 53% being financially stable. Here's the irony. It's actually, and this is what Bradley Wilcox's study points out, I think quite definitively, that if you just want to be a

person who's happy, it's not seeking after money. It's not success. It's not being an influencer. It's actually getting married and having kids that number one, bring the greatest life contentment and happiness. And number two, more financial stability. And so it's actually having kids that forces people to grow up and budget and work harder. And so this generation thinks, I've got to sacrifice having kids and family to accomplish all these other things. In turn, they'll be less happy. So I actually think this is a big lie

you and I have to counter with this generation. Now, I think singleness is important. I'm not downplaying that. Wilcox says, for most people, this is what brings happiness. We can walk and chew gum at the same time and say, God bless singles, equip singles. Maybe you have a desire to do that, use it for the kingdom and find relationships. But for most people, if you want to be financially stable, you want to be psychological wellbeing, and you want to be happy, get married and have

a lot of kids. This study showed that we have a long ways to go convincing Gen Z of that. Yeah, I agree. I think you've hit the nail on the head in a significant way because you use the word freedom. I was going to use the word happiness and then kind of, because happiness and flourishing and where is that found connected to reality. But a couple of points to your observation, Sean, is they're not seeing the good life as involved in having marriage and kids and family. They're seeing that and you see the rise of what's called the dinks, right? Dual income, no kids, which is, oh, it's great to have no kids and be in your 40s and 50s. And again, it's not a zero sum game. I think one unintended consequence. So in the 1990s, um, the church did not do a great job

responding to homosexuality and all the issues around that. And then in the years after that, there's been an emphasis on, look, we need to be good friends and singleness and all those things. And so sexuality, this sin is not worse than it friends and singleness and all those things. And so sexuality, this sin is not worse than it worse than other sins, all those kinds of things. Other than sexual sin is, you know, that is more significant because it affects the body and other people, but all things being equal. So we've been talking about singleness for a while now. And I think rightly so, but what we haven't done as much of is what you're talking about is casting vision for, Hey, it's good to get married. Like it's a good thing. That's God's idea. It's a good thing.

And so I think part of that is we have to, like, as you said, walk and chew gum at the same time. We're not saying that no one is having a fulfilling life if they're not married. But it's a really good thing by God's design to get married. And that's what the research shows. And that's what the pattern is. And so think i think you're right i think something bigger than themselves this this generation is hungry for meaning and purpose and man if you're only consumed with how i'm feeling about me in my own world nothing will cure or help that faster than having having a spouse a wife and kids to help you go, okay, I'm living beyond myself, obviously for God, but I'm also living for this, this family and I'm dying to myself for my

wife and things like that. So again, those are all significant things that I think we need to offer in our discipleship of Gen Z. The average birth rate has dropped to 1.62. You and I both have three, roughly the same age of our kids, about double that. And I got to tell you, this is a whole separate conversation. I'll end with this and then ask you to tell us where you can get the report. I have one kid in college. Next year, I'll have two and one at home. So I'm moving towards that empty nest era in my life. And I have a number of friends who've said things like, you know, I wish I had more kids and you're lucky you have at least one more coming up. That's part what gives me urgency to tell people don't buy the lies from our culture

that how much money you make and possessions you have, those things are going to make you happy. It's people and it's relationships that matter. And for most of us, that's kids and grandkids. I'm not saying that if somebody's watching this and they're single and weren't able to, please, I'm not trying to pour on any pain there. But for those of us who speak to the next generation, talk about this and bring it in and God's good design for what it means to flourish. So much more valuable than narrative of happiness in our wider culture. All right, Jonathan, we've gone over the time but tell folks how they can get the report yeah impact360.org you can find all you need about this gen z report we have a digital conference we recorded around research and how to begin putting this into practice and impact360.org we have life-changing experiences for high school students sean i know you come and teach with us and be a part of that,

but they can find out everything they need to know about Gen Z, how to get the report, how to get the digital access to the training and the videos on more of the research unveiling, as well as some of the themes around sexuality or resilience or things like that that we've begun to put out at impact360.org. I'd encourage everybody to check it out, buy a copy for yourself and youth pastor and church and friends, and really just joining the conversation around discipling the next generation. That's what we're passionate about doing at Impact360. That's why our organization invested the time and the resources and the team did an amazing job together in that to make this

available to start those conversations so that we can more effectively disciple and lead Gen Z. So impact360.org. If you're an adult watching this, think of a significant parent or a significant adult that's influenced one of your kids and get them a copy of this report. I had a lot of people give me gifts over the years and some were more helpful than others. This is the kind of gift I would have gone, wow, this is helpful. It's 100 pages, but it's a quick read. This is practical. I would have loved this. So I would think of somebody who's influenced your kid or your kids positively, youth pastor, Christian school teacher, maybe a coach, and just say, hey, heard this interview. Here's a study that explains Gen Z. Thought this might be helpful. Thanks for having an impact on my child. What a

great, great gift. I hope you'll do that. And before you click away, make sure you hit subscribe. We've got some other interviews coming up on a range of apologetic topics that we will be discussing. You will not want to miss. And if you thought about studying apologetics, Jonathan and I both studied at Biola in the master's program and the philosophy program. I teach full-time in apologetics. We have a full-time program, distance, top rated. We would love to have your information below. Or if you're not ready for that, just a certificate program. We walk you through the best lectures and just kind of quick assignments to keep you on track and learn. Everywhere I go, I'm meeting people going, I'm doing the certificate program and I love it. It's so helpful. Big discount below.

Jonathan, we will do this again. Keep up the good work, my friend. Hey, thanks, Sean. Always appreciate you. Keep it up as well.