The Sean McDowell Show - “Iran Is No Longer Islamic” | Why Iranian Muslims are Turning to Jesus.

Episode Date: February 6, 2026

Thousands are dead, Iran’s economy is collapsing, and the nation is on the brink of unrest, yet Dr. Hormoz Shariat says God is moving powerfully behind the scenes. In this urgent conversation, Sean sits down again with the “Billy Graham of Iran” to hear how many Iranians are rejecting Islam, turning to Christ, and how the underground church is growing amid persecution and chaos. This is a rare glimpse into both the darkness and the spiritual awakening unfolding in Iran right now. WATCH: Why Iranian Muslims are Turing to Jesus (https://youtu.be/_tdPBR7i7rw) *Get a MASTERS IN APOLOGETICS or SCIENCE AND RELIGION at BIOLA (https://bit.ly/3LdNqKf) *USE Discount Code [smdcertdisc] for 25% off the BIOLA APOLOGETICS CERTIFICATE program (https://bit.ly/3AzfPFM) *See our fully online UNDERGRAD DEGREE in Bible, Theology, and Apologetics: (https://bit.ly/448STKK) FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA: Twitter: https://x.com/Sean_McDowell TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sean_mcdowell?lang=en Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmcdowell/ Website: https://seanmcdowell.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

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It has had impact on the Iranians. The misery has increased. The war, the economy is really bad. Tens of thousands are being killed and executed. But every time there has been killing, after every massacre of the government, suddenly I see a new wave of people coming to Christ. Thousands dead. Economic downfall.

Iran is teetering on the edge of collapse, and yet our guest today, a former Iranian Muslim, says that God is at work in Iran. Dr. Hermos Shariat has been called the Billy Graham of Iran. He is back on the show to give us insight in what is happening in Iran and a glimpse behind the scenes of what God is doing amidst the chaos and unrest. Dr. Sheriat, thanks for coming back.

Well, thank you, Sean, for asking me to give an update. Amazing things, good and bad is happening in Iran. I'm glad to give an update. Well, we want to hear both, but remind our viewers, or maybe some who missed our interview from just a few weeks ago, about your story. Give us a sense of your experience growing up in Iran and then your journey to Christ. Yes, I was born in Iran in a Muslim family. I was pretty devout in my early years, but then when I got to teenage years, I started thinking, hey, memorizing this prayer and repeating it doesn't really add anything to my life.

So I'm going to be a good person and follow my dream, which was come to United States, get a PhD in science, and be a scientist. So I worked hard. I was a good student. In 79, I was a young student on the street of Tehran during the Iranian Revolution. and I was shouting death to America, death to Shah, which, by the way, I've changed my mind. So, you know, no death. As a child of God, I never say death to anybody.

We are an army of life. We are instruments of life. So, by the way, I came to the United States in Southern California. I went to University of Southern California and studying AI. And during that time, I got interested in spiritual things. I said, where is God? Life is empty without him. And I wanted to be a good Muslim.

I got a Quran, read it carefully with the intention of becoming a good Muslim. But this time, objectively, I studied Quran. I realized there's something wrong with it. It doesn't apply to my daily life. God is distant. Where is he? And he just commands some orders, which many of them are very violent. So I said, if God has written other books like Bible,

I'm an open-minded. I think all religions are the same. And if I really study them, they're going to be, I'm going to prove that they're all basically the same. So I started reading the Bible, not expecting to find anything new, just so that I can say I've read it. But the more I read it, especially in the New Testament, Book of Matthew, I realized no. My theory, which many intellectuals have it, intellectuals think, hey, all these religions are the same, why do they fight? That's what I thought. The more I compared the Bible and Quran, I realized both cannot be true. So different, fundamentally different. So I went

to a crisis, which one is true? Which one is true? Then I went to a church of the open door in downtown Los Angeles, where J. Vernon McGee was the previous pastor there. That's where I heard a simple, a simple message of the gospel, which transformed my life. Even a child can understand. You don't have to have a PhD to understand it. And that simple message transformed me, transformed my wife, healed our marriage, and I got excited. Hey, this message has power to change lives, to heal relationships, to even transform nations. And I felt something that I hope everybody feels that way. Every Christian, I felt I am selfish if I keep this message to myself. Being a shy, introvert engineer, I pushed myself to share the gospel. Mosom started

coming to Christ. Many, many came to Christ through us and planted churches in Silicon Valley. I graduated. I went to work in Silicon Valley as a scientist. Planted churches there in California. And right after 9-11, we said, we got to do something. We bought one hour of airtime on a secular channel sharing the gospel with Iranians through satellite signal. And that one hour a week turned to be 24-7 for the last 15, 16 years now. Thank you for sharing that. Folks, you can see his passion coming through. If you missed our earlier conversation, check it out. We walk through depth of your analysis of the Kron, how it changed you, affected your marriage. Your brother's death is a piece of this story that so motivated you to care for.

Muslims, even though, and maybe briefly just remind us of what happened there and how that has fueled your passion to reach Muslims. Well, as I shared, I felt I should be sharing the gospel because that's selfish. If you have this simple message that people can understand, but it will transform their lives. So I had started sharing the gospel. Not many results. It was after Iranian revolution.

Very, very few people even were interested in hearing me. about from me about the gospel. But I was a new believer where they arrested my younger brother. He was 16 and minor political charges. He was connected to a political group where Khomeini, the Supreme Leader, had accepted them. But then he changed his mind, made him illegal. So he started arresting and killing them. And one of my brothers was that.

He was arrested 16 years old. They kept him for two years. and then when he turned 18, they executed him. And when my mom went to get his body, they charged my mom, which is they're doing it today when we get to sharing what's happening today. So I went to a questioning of God, not questioning of my faith. I knew this has worked, but questioning God, what am I supposed to do when I see injustice? As a Christian, what do you want me to do?

So that's after going, you know, becoming revengeful. God said, no, no, no. Revenge is mine. Hate, no, no. You got to love your enemies. So two, three days of mourning, I felt God telling me this, that those who kill your brother, they are not your enemies. They're victims in the hands of one enemy, which is Satan. So I have compassion on them.

I felt forgiveness for them. and also I felt love. These people are going to hell. They don't know my Savior, and they don't know what they're doing. So I received the love for Muslims. And I said, God, okay, I will share the gospel. And God said, you want to revenge, take revenge of Satan? Yes, Lord, okay, those people are not my enemy.

Satan is my enemy. Okay, what am I supposed to do? He said, evangelize, share the gospel. That's the best thing. you can do to harm the enemy, the dark spirit of Islam. Okay, I will do that. And then I said, if I will dedicate my life to sharing the gospel with Muslims lovingly out of the love motivation. Amen. But if I'm going to dedicate my life, would you use my life to bring one million Muslims to Christ? I didn't know what I was talking about. But God has been faithful, Sean. God has been

faithful. No satellite television, it came like 20, 30 years after that conversion. But God has been faithful. I don't know. We have the names of over 120,000 that have come to Christ and probably we have passed that one million. I don't know. That's incredible. I can only, I can imagine in some ways having this happened to your brother so many years ago and seeing the unrest, which is not stopped really since 1979, but seems to pick up steam, would bring some of those. memories back. So let's maybe shift and talk about why is this cultural moment, the political unrest, economic collapse, an aging supreme leader? Why is this moment we find ourselves in so important in Iran? Well, Iranians have gone through a spiritual journey. You see what's happening

today, but there is a history. Iranians believed in Islam. They were ready to live and die for Islam, which they did in the 80s, in Iran-Iraq War. They were ready to give their lives, and they did. And when I would share the gospel with them, many of them would say, hey, you're infidel. You're a traitor to your people. But they took the spiritual journey. After 40 years of experiencing Islam, practically Islam in every aspect of their lives, they saw the ugly side of Islam, the true side of Islam.

corruption, deception, which is, or you know, in the Quran, violence, which is in Koran, which is with Muhammad, the Prophet, all of these you see in the Prophet and it's in the, in Koran. They say, you know, Islam is a religion of peace. I said, look at Prophet Muhammad's life and prove to me that Islam is a religion of peace. So after 40 years of experiencing Islam, the people of your own have come to cry, have come to believe that Islam is not the way. Islam is the source of our problem. It's evil. I don't say that Islam is from Satan because that doesn't help my evangelism. But people, Iranian Muslims, Sean, I hear them saying Satan, Islam is from Satan. So especially during this last massacre, more,

More people have come to say, we're done with Islam. Islam is not just that not for us. It's not for anybody. We need to get rid of it if we want to have a future for our country. So that's what happened, a 40-some years of a spiritual journey, to come to a point that Iranians, majority of them, done with Islam, that's why we see such a high conversion rate coming to Jesus Christ. Well, let's talk about that a little bit.

and maybe share with us, you did a little bit earlier, but what your ministry has been doing for 25 years, what you've been doing, you said about 15, 16 years with the radio, but has it shifted in either the past two or three years since the October slaughter in Israel, or since the U.S. bombing in June? Like, have things shifted in that window, and if so, how? Yes, every incident when you look at it,

it has had impact on the Iranians negatively and positively. Negatively is the miserable life. The misery has increased. The war, the economy is really bad. It's not the first time Iranians are in streets. They have done it every two, three years, and every time thousands of them have been killed, not like today, but tens of thousands are being killed and executed, but every time there has been killing. And when I look at the pattern, after every massacre of the government, suddenly I see a new wave of people coming to Christ. I see like this, that there are hardcore Muslims,

just like an onion. And when things like that happen, another layer of onion depart from Islam come to Christ. So even today, I'm talking to our leaders. I'm saying it's hard. Iranians are being killed. we are grieving, they are grieving, I've cried multiple times, it's just a worst of all times. But be prepared because every time more Iranians come to Christ and I can see, and I can hear,

some of our staff are telling me even that close, say, hey, my family, my family member, such a devout Muslim, and he was just cursing me all these years. And he said, and they would say, if you come to Iran, we will deliver you to the regime to be killed. He said, even my family are asking me about Jesus these days. Those who were so devout wanted to kill me, now they're asking. So let me share this with you because this is not new. Every time this happens, Sean, every year I feel things cannot get worse for the people of Iran, the violence, the killing, the economy cannot get any worse.

But then it does. And at the same time, the spiritual openness of the Iranians, I say, it cannot get any better. It cannot get any better. Look, all coming, people are coming to Christ. But you know what? Then it does. Both are happening. The worst is getting worse and the openness of the Iranian people to the gospel is getting better and better.

Unfortunately, they're coming. These two happens at the same time. Is there any sense of the people where they go, okay, this supreme leader and regime is not really representing true Islam. We want real Islam or in their minds is it like, no. This is what Islam is and you're seeing more and more people reject it as a whole, regardless of how it's practiced over the past 40 years in Iran. Very good question. I've seen that trend that like in the 80s and the 90s, majority of people felt that. Okay, something is wrong with this regime, is killing our people. They're forcing, but really, there's nothing wrong with Islam. The problem is our regime is implementing wrong. But through that spiritual journey, people have come to conclusion, most of them, still maybe there is small core that still believe is. Islam is okay, it's just the government. But the majority of Iranians have come to conclusion, the problem is not with our Islamic government.

The problem is with Islam itself has major flaws. So the rejection of the government, Islamic government is coming along with the rejection of Islam. the people of Iran have rejected Islam and it has taken them 40 some years. So it's not an overnight emotional decision. It's very deliberate. That's why I make this outrageous statement, which I believe. Are you ready to hear it? Let's go.

Iran is no longer an Islamic nation and it will never be. Oh, my goodness. If you've ever been asked or have asked yourself, Why did God do that when reading the Bible? This is for you. Sightline ministry, formerly Josh McDowell ministry, exists to help cut through cultural confusion so people can see Jesus clearly.

They've just launched a new on-demand learning center called Sightline You. And right now, they're offering a free course called Why Did God Do That? Confronting hard passages in the Bible. It's hosted by Matthew Teingblad, and based on the book, he co-wrote with my dad, Josh McDowell. The course walks step by step through difficult passages

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Head over to sightline ministry.org slash Sean. Explain what you mean and defend it. Go. Yeah, I couldn't defend it because I see that with people, but now I can defend it. Five years ago, they did a survey to university professors in Europe. They did a very scientific study of 50,000 Iranians asking them what you believe. So less than one-third said we believe in Islam. And that's five years ago.

Through all these, I would say less than 30, I think it's less than 10 right now. 10% would say Islam is the way. So one-third said only less than one-thirds said we believe in Islam. Another one-third said, God, we don't believe in God or God is not important to us. And the last one-third looked all over the place for God. Eastern religion, new age religion, and of course, Christianity, that many are coming to Christ. So there is a solid proof for Iran is no longer an Islamic nation. There is a proof.

But the trend we are going, the hatred, the militancy against Islam, the people of Iran saying, we have to destroy Islam if we want to have a future. So putting these two together, you can easily predict that Islam, that will never come back, never will come back to Iran. Maybe always a little minority, but done. Islam has experienced its greatest defeat in its history in Iran today. Islam is done in Iran. That is a powerful statement for you to say. I appreciate your boldness behind that.

So let me make a comparison. I know it's not perfect, but I think you'll see where I'm going to this. When you look at individuals who leave the Church of Jesus Christ, of Latter-day Saints when they leave the Mormon Church, one would think, oh, they'd come back to historic Christian faith because Mormonism spun out of the Christian faith. And yet it's only a minority who actually become Christians. Many become agnostics, atheists, because they're burned by religion. And it's kind of like, I can't trust these religious authorities. I don't

trust this religious text. Do you have a sense of those who leave Islam in Iran? You said, many are becoming Christians. Do we have the numbers or sense of how many are becoming Christians, how many become agnostics, atheists, or is it really just impossible to really have that data right now? The only scientific data is we have that it's about five years old, which told us about 1.3 million Muslims have become Christian. The number is much more than that. But the numbers are increasing, but there's no way right now to know exact numbers.

But let me share you a funny thing. I tell in my interviews, they say, like you, what's your estimate? I say, you know, two or three to three million Muslim background believers in Iran. then they say, aren't you exaggerating? I said, well, I don't know. 1.3 is scientific, but probably more than that. And my experience is like that.

And the funny thing is I give the same number. Sean, I give the same number to our underground church leaders. I say, tell me how many are coming to Christ. I told them, I'm telling the Westerners 2 to 3 million. You know what? The leaders tell me, hey, Pastor Hormon. Why do you downplay what God is doing here? There are many more.

And they tell me stories. They go on streets to share the gospel, and they find many people who already are Christians. More than once, they tell me they take a taxi, and they want to start sharing the gospel with the taxi driver. Before they do, the taxi driver shares the gospel with them. They go in a shopping center, and they talk to the seller, and one is start sharing the gospel and they see, oh, he's already Christian through media.

They said, I know Pastor Hormos. I'm watching the program. I've been a Christian a year or two or six months. So the numbers nobody knows, but I believe it's at least three million. Oh, at least three million, which if Iran has 80 to 90 million people, we still have a ways to go, but minimally it's far more than what people would think. Okay, so I read the New York Times and I watch Fox News. I really try to watch news from different sides to get both perspectives as I can.

And I'm tracking what's happening in Iran from the outside, but I always ask myself the question, what am I missing? What's not being covered? So what might an outsider like myself or a news organization not cover that we should know about just as a whole what's happening? in Iran or what the people there would want us to know that maybe is not getting the coverage it deserves? Well, the Western media is biased. That's not a shock.

That's not new. And they pick and choose what news they cover according to what they believe. So they've decided not to cover this massacre in a major way. Maybe they mentioned it a little bit. and the media in the West is very afraid, very, I call it really fear, are very afraid of Muslims. They're afraid to offend them.

Because they know if you offend them, you could be killed, they would go violent. I mean, they wouldn't accept that. So spirit of fear is the spirit of Islam. And many times I challenge even Christians, and maybe I should right now, if you're a Christian and you hate Muslims or you're afraid of them,

knowing that the spirit of hatred and fear is from Islam, if you hate them, and if you're angry, if you're revengeful, maybe you're being controlled by the spirit of Islam,

because that's the spirit. If you're afraid. So, Western media is influenced by that fear, but the source of that fear we know, in love, God is,

God is love and in love, there's no fear. So why are they afraid of Islam in America? They can attack Christians all they want. They can attack, you know, the right, whoever is against, doesn't believe like them easily, but very scared of talking about Islam. And it's violent. And what the leaders are done.

Even the Quranic verses, did you know, there was a there was a radio host that just coded an Islamic verse and he lost his job he just coded from from Quran where was this host from what like what state or what this is a few years ago this is this is not written but it was a few years ago I think it was an east coast that if you Google it you can find the details yeah that's really interesting I was talking to my son just this week about how, in fact, it was just yesterday, about how the number one commandment in the Bible is do not fear. Do not be afraid. It's all over the Old Testament. It's all over the book of Acts. And yet there's a lot of fear in our evangelism and even our ministry with Muslims. So maybe when I

take a step back, when you hear people coming to faith, whether it's over the past 30 years or during these kind of tumultuous periods, what are the common? threads that kind of tie these stories together. What is it that makes somebody who's a Muslim, at least in Iran, choose to follow Jesus? There are several elements working together. One element is they have rejected Islam, but they're still hungry for God. Even some of them say, I'm an atheist, but they're not. They're hurt by Islam. And so the spiritual hunger is there. looking and when they hear the message of the gospel the love, joy, peace, forgiveness, the fruits of the spirit, what God is going to give them their spirit and this is what's going to be

produced in their personal life, it's very attractive. Jesus is very attractive. When you share Jesus, nobody can compete with him. So I've seen this. So number one is what is happening in their heart. Sean, multiple times I shared the gospel. with Iranian Muslims, they accept it right away in 22 minutes, two minutes. And the reason is the gospel is already written in their hearts when you talk about God's love. For example, I ask him, do you believe in God? No, no, I don't believe. I don't believe here is God. I don't believe in God of Islam. I have, I believe, I have my own belief. Okay, what do you believe? I believe if there is God, he would be a God of love who loves us and asks us to

love one another. If there is God, it would be a God who forgives us and asks us to forgive one another. Without reading the Bible, they're quoting the Bible, the God of the Bible. So when they hear the gospel, it resonates with what God has already written in their heart. That's why we see such a high rate of conversion. I wish I could show you our curve. Our curve is just like an exponential. The last few years is shooting up the number of salvation. So that's number one. Number two is supernatural visions and dreams. Visions and dreams happening. Just normal healings, asking Jesus to heal.

Many of them have that experience. It's so, I laugh because it's so common, Sean, that they don't even mention it. When they contact me, I have to tell them, they don't say, oh, I saw Jesus or Jesus healed me from cancer. They don't say that. It's normal for them. I have to ask them, have you had a supernatural experience?

Oh, yeah, yeah, Jesus healed me or Jesus appeared to me. Yeah, of course, that's normal. So Jesus himself is opening hearts and he's appearing to them. And number three reason is media. We have been on the air for 25 years. Satellite television going over the heads of the mullahs into people's homes and in the living rooms, eye to eye, I tell them about God's love. Over 25 years, Iranians have changed their heart towards Christ.

They may not be a Christian, but they really have a positive view of Christianity. Because of media, we have presented Jesus as a loving savior, just contrary to Allah. And so media has had a major role in changing their mind. By the way, we did a survey last year. Some of our leaders did a survey, but better than that, we paid a company, a secular company inside Iran. We paid the money. Go ask these questions, especially from the youth, from 15 to 30, and give us the result. They ask several thousand, and they give us results and amazing data there.

But I want to share one. Yeah, please. One of them, how do you view Islam? 82% had a very negative view of Islam. In a different part of the survey, how do you view Jesus and Christianity? 94% said be positive. of Jesus and Christianity. 82, Islam, bad.

I don't want it. 94, Jesus is good. Christianity is good. That's amazing. We're just not even hearing these kind of studies, right? Even if it's not exactly 82 or 94, these are suggesting just trends that are not being heard and told as a part of the story. So let me ask you this.

You're sharing how the norm it is to have dreams and visions and healings. Are you hearing these in any different way since the bombing in June? Like, are you still getting these? How frequently do these come in? And how do we know we can trust these accounts, especially in our age of, like, fake news and AI? It's happened so many times. You cannot ignore that.

And people who claim that, they're ready to die. You know, just like the apostles, why did they were ready to die? They saw their reason Jesus, right? that's explanation why would they give their lives for that that Jesus died and was resurrected because they saw him the same here when they see Jesus in Iran they're ready to die they cannot they cannot deny that Jesus I saw Jesus and he healed me I don't have cancer how can you deny that so in the Western mindset we may be you know questioning and

we have seen fake, you know, healings and faith healers here. So we're very skeptic. But these people have nothing to gain everything to lose when they say that. They could be killed, but they still cannot deny that Jesus has healed their bodies and has appeared to them. I realize you're an evangelist and not a prophet, but do you have a sense of what you think is likely?

to happen right now, given that the Itola is aging, given that Iran is in such a weak spot economically, and there's been protests and death and outrage. Does this feel and sense different from other such rebellions in the past, and any sense of where you think this may be going? Yeah, good question. I'm not a prophet, but I read the Bible. So what I'm saying is prophetic, but it's from the Bible. We know what will happen. And we know what's happening. By the way, if you read Jeremiah 49, verses 34 and on, you see what's happening. If you ever read a passage of the Bible and thought, what is going on here?

You're not alone. Sightline Ministry, formerly Josh McDowell ministry, is all about helping people cut through cultural confusion so they can see Jesus clearly. They've just launched a new on-demand learning center called Sightline View. Right now, you can take a free course they're called. Why did God do that? Confronting hard passages in the Bible. The course is hosted by my friend Matthew Tingblad and based on the book he wrote with my dad, Josh McDowell.

It walks through some of the toughest passages in scripture. The ones that seem harsh, violent, and unloving in terms of God's character. Both historical context and careful interpretation, Matthew shows how these passages actually point to God's goodness and his redemptive love. By joining Sightline you and taking this course, you'll gain confidence in God's character, strengthening or trust in Scripture, and get access to a library of free resources to help with even more difficult texts. the course for free right now by heading to siteline ministry.org slash Sean. Check out why did God do that at siteline ministry.org slash Sean. Iran in those verses. Jeremiah 49 talks about removing of the kings and prince and then there is a verses of massacre which is happening right now.

But 4938, the Lord says, I will set my throne in Ilam. Elam is a land completely inside Iran today. I will set my throne there and then following verse, I will bless that lap. I will prosper that land. So we know where we're going in general. We're going to, Iran will be a Christian nation. Iran will be a sending nation. People say, are you crazy? Where did you get that idea?

I said, I stole it from the Bible. So it's not my idea. It's God's promise. So we know the end result. Now, and we know the suffering also is in Jeremiah 49. And I share that as a source of hope to people. Now, to answer your question, this is more of, okay, what's happening and maybe guesses. But when the protest started, I went on the air, I said, there is a massacre coming.

Not many people wanted to hear that, and it came. I believe that regime will change. The fastest way for it to change is if Ayatollah dies. that would be easiest and fastest. He's old, he may die. Another big possibility is a military uprising, and they will take over the government, and they will be with people.

They change sides from against people to be with people, and they will cause regime change. Very unfortunate and improbable, I hope it will not happen, is that a militancy, a violent confrontation, that somehow the people of Yvonne will receive guns and they will start fighting and killing these Mullahs, which is the worst situation.

And I hope foreign countries will not arm the people of Yvonne, even though they're being killed, but this will get worse and worse. So these are possibilities. Dying and changing the government is coming. Sooner or later. People of Iran are afraid right now they're home. They're at home.

They are not on streets because even if you go on street and you may be killed right now, you may be killed. So going on streets very dangerous. They're staying home for the most part. But sooner or later this government will fall and when it falls, a new era will start. a new chapter in history. May I say this, no matter what happens, Sean, I'm telling our leaders this. I'm telling you what I'm telling our leaders.

If the government stays, if the government falls, if things change, if things don't change, our mission doesn't change. We are in mission of sharing the gospel and building his kingdom in Iran. So if Iran falls, if the government falls, we have a plan. We have a very detailed plan

as how go back, gather the harvest, and start churches. Did you know, we are in over 100 cities we have the names of many believers. So when Iran opens up, I believe going back,

just gathering, we can plant tens, maybe hundreds of churches in the first three months. That was going to be my next question is, again, I know this is very different, but I've had a chance to go to Russia

13 times, starting in the late, 80s when I was about probably 13 years old, seeing the walls fall of communism and the church that was there how responded some ways well, some ways not as well, which is a separate conversation. It sounds like you have confidence that either believers there or organizations like yours or others, that if this does fall, there will be a basis to move in and start networking and reaching and equipping and strengthening people. You have confidence in that process. Yes, because we already have established relationship and trust with these people.

We're not going to start from scratch. When Iran opens up, at Iran alive, we are not going to go there. Okay, let's evangelize, let's gather, let's disciples, which is a good process, but we are way ahead of that curve. We've already done. We have many who have come to Christ. We have trained many. We have many leaders.

So when Iran opens up with the whole, of friends, because this would be a new project and we need support. But with the help of friends, we will plant hundreds of churches in the first six months. Amazing. So two last questions if I can. Number one, how do you think people can best follow what's really going on there? Are there some sources that you trust, whether it's yours or another organization that kind of informs people of what's really taking place there and at least as minimally biased away as possible. How can we track what's happening spiritually, even politically, in a fair way?

Well, to get information, there are YouTube channels, but you have to be very careful. Some are exaggerating things and telling things that are not true to just get followers. You know, there are Iranian news agencies, but they're in Farsi. Like Iran International, for example, is very connected with the people of Iran. their news is usually very solid and up-to-date. But there are other American podcasters who have pretty much accurate, but not all of them. I've seen people who don't know what they're talking about.

They made exaggerated and outrageous statements just to gather, and false information. So we have to be careful. Connect to us, you know, go to our website, Iranalive.org, and connect to us. because we have that sense of both what's happening politically, but also what's happening spiritually. You don't get that in secular.

We cover both. This is what's happening on visible happening in politics, and this is what's happening in the spiritual domain. We present the summary of both of them. So go to our website, iranolive.org. Join us, get the updates, get the testimony. The least you can get, is testimonies that will encourage you.

And I have so many testimonies of what God is doing through Christians, even today. Even on those streets, people are being killed. Christians are there, and I'm receiving great testimonies from them. So I said two more questions, but we'll keep it not too much longer. I read a couple articles that talked about the way that people are being brutalized in Iran. and I don't want to go into too much detail. But when I read those articles, it was just jarring like, oh my goodness, this is a brutal regime in striking fear into the people. As much is appropriate, paint what it's like to be either a Muslim or Christian, just somebody in Iran who has issues with the government and exactly how they're really cracking down to strike so much fear into people.

But they kill people on streets. But besides that, with the help of China, they have other instruments of spying on their people. For example, you buy a mobile, a cell phone in Iran. Most likely things are already installed on it to track you. And so, you know, they know if you, they know you were on streets, even if you were not killed, you go home. They know you were there. So after things settled down, just like before, thousands are being killed right now. Tens of thousands are being arrested. But if things settled down, first two things will happen. Those who are in jail, they will start executing them. Last year,

they killed five per day, executed five per day, 2005. So would be five. Five. per day, maybe 50 per day, they're going to do it because there's so many, so many out there. Another thing will happen is once they settle down, they will go to people's homes because they have a track record that this person was on the street. They can prove. They will go at home and arrest another tens of thousands, which they, again, they will kill them. I want to share this. It's so heavy on my heart, Sean. Please. You know, people are calling Trump.

Could you come and help us? That's out of desperation. Think of a nation so desperate that they're asking other nations. Israel, America, anybody, can you come and help us? They are so hopeful that Trump will do something for them. And come and save them. They love America. They love Israel.

But I want to make sure I make this statement. if Trump does something, it's not just for the people of Iran. It will be for the whole world. Because if you leave this Islamic nation, if it survives and you see how brutal it is to its own people, be assured they will be after atomic bomb. And when they have it, they have no problem using it against other nations. So what Trump is doing, you know, people of Iran very positive about Trump.

They call him Uncle Trump. You may be pro-Trump, you may be against Trump. I'm not getting into that. But I'm saying how people view that. And what Trump is doing to help people of Iran, I believe he's helping the world. Because if Iranian government survives, the whole world will be in trouble. Thank you for sharing that on your heart. Is there anything else I should have asked you just about the ministry that's taking place there,

the oppression, this cultural moment, any insight, something that you just want others to hear, or did we cover it? Well, there's one thing. I'm passionate because of reading Jeremiah 49, we see the history is in the making. And this is the time the history is being made in Yvonne in the Middle East and the world. And we Christians are called not to just step back and watch history. God has called us to be history makers. We need to be involved, both history in America or anywhere in the world.

In Iran is the time to make history. I'm calling out people who have this passion and a call to make history, to make a difference around the world. I'm calling you. Come and join us. Let's do it together. A nation is ready to come from Islam to Christianity and have a positive influence in the Middle East and the whole world. This is the time to act. If we don't act, we will miss this

opportunity. You talked about Russia. There was an open years in Russia after it fell. The Soviet Union fell. But it was closed after that. The same in Iran. There is an open heaven. There is open people. Many people are open to the gospel. Let's work together to establish strong Christians and strong churches. I'm calling out history makers. Let's do it together. I love it. Give us your website again so people can go there to track what's going on, to pray, and also to hopefully support some of your efforts there. Iranalive.org. Iranalive.org. There is another way is to text the word Iran Iran to this number. 8-5-7-89. Like you get your phone. Instead of putting a phone number, of the person, just put 885, 789, 8, 5, 7, 8.5, 7, 8.9. And just text, I ran. You get a set of link,

links to our website, links to some great testimonies. And if the Lord leads you, text to support us, a link to us, support us. But do that. Let's be in touch. History is being made. Would love to share with you what God is doing. Thanks for what you're doing. Thanks for carving out time. I know you've got a ton going on. And right now, there's probably so many stresses, what's happening in Iran and with your leadership and the show and other programs. So thanks for carving out time. We will ask you back in due time to give us an update if things unfold there differently. And folks watching this, let us know if this kind of insight in terms of what's happening in the world and what God is doing is helpful on this channel, make sure you hit subscribe while you're at it.

And we teach classes on how to reach Muslims in our program in the MA program in Apologetics. We would love to have you join us here at Talba School of Theology. Dr. Hermos, this has been so encouraging and so eye-opening. Thank you for your time and just God bless you in your efforts for the kingdom. Well, thank you, Sean. I'm so thankful for you. You have a mission in life and you're very faithful to what God has given you. And I honor that.

Thanks, brother. Hey, friends, if you enjoyed this show, please hit that follow button on your podcast app. Most of you tuning in haven't done this yet. And it makes a huge difference in helping us reach any. equip more people and build community. And please consider leaving a podcast review. Every review helps. Thanks for listening to the Sean McDowell Show, brought to you by Talbot School of Theology at Biola University, where we have on campus and online programs in apologetic, spiritual information, marriage and family, Bible, and so much more. We would love to train you to more effectively live,

teach, and defend the Christian faith today. And we will see you when the next episode drops. Hey friends, I'm Susan Michael. My podcast, The Out of Zion show, is now partnering with Life Audio Podcast Network. You know, after decades of travel and study in Israel, I created Out of Zion to bring you a simple, clear, powerful insights about the Bible, Jesus, Israel, and your own walk of faith. Follow Out of Zion on your favorite podcasting app. I can't wait to take the Bible. this journey with you.