The Sean McDowell Show - Radical Healing (through Prayer!) Changes Muslim's Life

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

Is Jesus God? Can the Bible be trusted? These are the questions Jainil, as a Muslim, debated his Christian friend for years. Finally, his friend challenged him to consider that Jesus could heal him. What happened? And how did it transform his life? Today, we dive into his dramatic story. READ: Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Sean and Josh McDowell (https://amzn.to/47zmv6k) *Get a MASTERS IN APOLOGETICS or SCIENCE AND RELIGION at BIOLA (https://bit.ly/3LdNqKf) *USE Discount Code [SMDCERTDISC] for 25% off the BIOLA APOLOGETICS CERTIFICATE program (https://bit.ly/3AzfPFM) *See our fully online UNDERGRAD DEGREE in Bible, Theology, and Apologetics: (https://bit.ly/448STKK) FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA: Twitter: https://twitter.com/Sean_McDowell TikTok: @sean_mcdowell Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmcdowell/ Website: https://seanmcdowell.org

Our guest today is a former Muslim who was radically healed when he prayed to Jesus. Quite literally, it turned his life and his faith and his family upside down. What happened and how does that still affect him today? Our guest today is J. Neal and he has a story that needs to be told, heard, and shared. By the way, you're going to love his French accent. J. Neal, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you, Sean. Thank you for inviting me. It's an honor. Thank you. Oh my goodness. It's my honor. When I heard your interview online with our mutual friend,

Mohamed Faridi, I thought I have got to get him on my program because this story you told about God healing and then other healings, I think is supernatural and it's powerful. But before we get to that, tell us a little bit about your family that you grew up in. Sure. So basically, I was born in France. So my parents emigrated from Madagascar, which is a former French territory next to Africa. And so basically they fled the riots that were in Madagascar at that time and in the 80s.

So I was born in France in a very small village, in deep France, where the mentalities are not really conducive for foreigners. Did suffer a lot of racism actually. But in that town, there was no, how do you call, big community of the religion that my parents belonged to that I was in before. So the cultural heritage for my parents is basically,

you know, you have two branches in Islam, main branches. One is Shia Muslims, which we came from basically, and one is Sunni Muslims. The Sunni are more like traditional and quite literal. The Shia are somehow less strict, let's say. For example, as they pray with women you know just kind of different things they don't pray five times a day but only three times a day so it really really really depend so we basically carried that

cultural heritage from my grandparents and great-grandparents who were born in India in Gujarat in the northern part of India so it is a heavy Indian heritage almost Hindu actually in some ways because we really you know the community called Ismaili is addressed like they dressed like Indian people, you know, with sari, Punjabi, they used incense, you know, during the regional ceremony, religious ceremony, you know, this kind of thing. So very heavily influenced by India. And so in that village, we didn't have a big community of Ismaili. So the Ismaili are basically led by a spiritual leader called the Aga Khan. I don't know if you heard about that, but basically he's one of apparently descendants

of the blood of Ali, who was the cousin and the son-in-law of Muhammad, through Fatima. And then, so he's said to be like the spiritual leader of the Ismaili Shia branch I was in with my parents. But there was no like a big community, so we were not practicing, you know, as much as they could when they were back in Madagascar we were just praying maybe once a week on Fridays because Friday is a big day for Muslims and we we were only going to the big celebration big event once or twice a year in Paris. We were living about 200 miles away from Paris, only just for the big, big, big events. So it was not like really religious as much as when we left to Reunion Island when my parents decided to retire, basically.

Okay. So how old were you when they retired and left? So that was in 2001. So 2001, I was about 20 years old, 21. So they decided basically to leave France because they really wanted to be closer to their community. And they chose to go to Réunion Island, which is a small French territory between Madagascar and Mauritius, still in the Indian Ocean. So next to Madagascar somehow. But before we went to Réunion, I had so I was playing rugby at a professional level in France.

I was not very religious, but I was very open to different spiritualities, occultism, almost spiritualism, these kind of things. I think I was, I guess I was searching, you know, for the truth. And also, I was like really deeply involved in sports, because that was really, you know, something professional for me and and as i played rugby i basically broke my back um i had a herniated disc a slip disc so one of the discs in the in the spine was broken and it was really bad because i had to basically go to the physiotherapist for massage every week i was under painkillers. I had a corset or a belt for my back to maintain my spine because I could not stand for like three minutes.

I could walk three minutes and then I had to basically sit down and rest. So it was quite heavy. And at the same time, on the way of life that I was going through, I really went through the world, let's say, the world. I was really deeply involved in smoking drugs, taking a lot of alcohol, being a teenager, I guess, you know. So, yeah, I was kind of a teenager, I guess, you know. So yeah, it was I was kind of searching myself, I guess. So when that, that that really that pain came, and that sickness came of having a slipped disc, I had to stop rugby, basically. And so so somehow the timing was quite good when my parents decided to go back to the Indian Ocean in Rhenium Island next to Madagascar for the retirement because basically I was

living at my parents' house at that time. I was still doing my studies. I was failing studies at university already because I was smoking too much. And I was really while it was really a contrast with before, because when I started school, I was quite good at school and I was first in my class during college and high school. So that was quite of a change and they could see, you know, the way that I changed and the way that drugs and that sickness also took me out of the way somehow. So the timing was quite good because I had to basically follow them to go to Greenland Island when I was about 20.

And they would take me out of this environment that was quite negative because you know one of the way to basically make sure that someone if you want to help someone to stop taking drugs then you remove him from that that environment somehow that helps so I basically followed them to, to, to Reno Island when I was about 20. Okay. So you're about 20 years old. So you grew up.

If it, tell me if this sums it up pretty well in a culturally Muslim background, just kind of, that was your identity. You'd go maybe on Fridays and big events, but it wasn't core to who your family was. You drifted from that really kind of just became a seeker. Your identity was a lot in football or in rugby.

Sorry, apologies. We don't use perfection. We are men. I get it. And then it wasn't really until your family took their faith seriously until they left at this stage about 19 or 20 when you're a seeker. This aside, tell me, how many siblings did you have as a whole? Did you have a good childhood? Did you feel safe and had some good experiences? Yeah, the childhood

was perfect. I mean, very grateful. My parents were really hard worker my my father was working two jobs um suffering a lot of racism also you know um so you had to climb the ladder uh working twice hard um and and i have uh i'm the last one so i have one elder brother one elder sister um who were not at all into uh into into religion um they left before me of, because I'm the last one. So they were already in university when we really started to practice a bit every Friday, the prayers. So, and even when they went to university,

they were not practicing at all. I mean, they were almost French, let's say. So good childhood, i mean no complaint i was the last one so i was a mama's baby uh always favored so no no no complaint on on that end so yeah nice nice childhood yeah so i'm still my. So you were a seeker at this stage. Did you know any Christians? Did you ever consider Christianity? Or was it just not really on your radar at all at that stage? Yeah, that's a good question. So actually, you know, France is very Catholic, at least at that time, 40 years ago. That was very, very, very Catholic. So religious in a way of going to church on Sunday,

but then outside of it, well, you have Catholic values, thing like this. So I was surrounded by, you know, mainly the Catholic culture. There was a few Muslim, but very few, immigrated from Northern Africa. So I was looking really into all the religions and even beyond religion, you know, almost spiritualism, witchcraft or occultism.

I was very interested, quite open to these things. And so I was not very, so I had a couple of questions sometimes about that. So when I was seeing a cross, okay, what's that, that? So he was trying to explain me and okay. Jesus is a prophet. We respect him, you know in the Quran But that stopped right there. So not much not much this So your parents are aware of this you move with them You're 19 or 20 years old to away from France now to where they start practicing their faith seriously. What happens when you get there? Do you start practicing your Muslim faith? Was there tension

with your parents? Like what happened when you moved there out of the environment you were in? Yeah. So that was 10,000 miles away from France. So 11 hours flight. So it's really, really, you know, big distance. So it was quite a big move for them, because they knew that they would not see their son and daughter and grandchildren anymore. Very, very little because, you know, we grew up quite poor. So it was quite, quite a move. But basically, they picked up basically on their religious practice and they were very like going every day. It was like they were catching up on time, you know, in the past.

So every day, and I was following them. I mean, it was good because I could also see, understand better my roots, you know, my cultural heritage. could also see understand better my roots you know my cultural heritage so it was good in that sense because we could we could build a community uh of of like-minded believer um so uh that was quite a big community actually uh where we were we were in the capital on top of that. So we were going to the mosque every day, no tension there. I mean, I was just eating it in and just eating what I was fed with. I was not trying to look at anything else. Even though in Réunion, it's interesting because in Réunion,

you have like about seven religions. So almost all the religions are there. You even have Hinduism, witchcraft, you have worshipping dragons of Chinese and all the classical religions that we know of the books. So it's interesting because there we call it kind of a model of tolerance. I later understood that tolerance is not even the Bible, but basically you debate freely about religion. And that's when I was in university.

I was out of that environment of drugs and these people, friends that were not a good company but basically I was able to to to stop smoking drugs I was able to stop alcohol as well so that there was some good you know there was some good good good good impact on on that move is just that I was really into into going to the mosque every day with my parents trying to serve the community be a good Muslim and be a blessing for the community basically so so we I was really into it up to a point that I was even assigned to be a junior imam for the students. Yes. You were motivated. So, okay, so now you're 20, 19, 20 years old.

Your life is turning to the positive. You're finding identity. What shifted? It seems like your life is on a good trajectory that most people would be happy with certainly with a relationship with your family seemingly going well too yeah indeed so basically we i was going to university i was studying and i was also picking up on on my previous grades at school. So I was doing well again.

Normal. I was not smoking, not drinking alcohol. So I was really serious again. So at university, I was studying maths, mathematics, and I had a friend, a Christian friend, who was in my class. And we were, you know, debating freely about Islam and Christianity. So I was trying to convince him that Islam is the way, that Muhammad is the best prophet, that the Quran is the best book, that the Bible is false, that Jesus is not God, you know, this kind of thing. And he was saying, no, no, that's not true. So we were trying to debate and trying to convince each other. And at some point,

basically, his face wrecked me. It really wrecked me. You know, there's a lot of things that at the beginning really struck me. One of these was like, for example, he was always smiling, always serving others, always providing for others and, you know, paying for all the people, food and things like this, even though he was not rich, you know.

So he was just, you know, displaying the love of God, let's say. So this is something that really got my attention. And one of the other things also is that when we had that week-long exam at university, he was not even putting an alarm clock to go to school in the morning. He was just trusting God. He said, no, my father is waking me up. I asked the Holy Spirit to wake me up at this exact time every day, even during the week of exam.

And I'm not putting an alarm clock. That's how I exercise me, trusting God and hearing the Lord's voice. I was like, What? OK. And that worked. I mean, you know, every day he was on time. And so, you know, it's this kind of thing really get to you, to your mind. And when we were debating, basically he told me, OK, let's stop the blah, blah, blah, because this is just debate, you know, blah, blah, blah. We are just speaking.

It's one trying to convince you of it. But let's speak practical. Let's speak facts. Okay, so Jesus said that, you know, a tree by its fruits. So look at the fruit in your life. So you're trying to, you're sick, you're miserable, you're trying to pray Allah to heal you. It's been so at that time, it was like about four years already that I was really into the mosque and praying every day at the mosque. And one of my prayers was to get healed, you know, because I could not live like this. The doctors were even saying that basically my spine, you know, you have all these discs and each disc is made of lots of different layers

or sheets and so basically every layer every sheet is basically peeling off and soon you will not be able to carry your own child you will finish in a wheeling chair so you know I was really praying Allah trying to be a good Muslim and get his blessing so you know you try to be better, you try to do more, but you don't receive anything in return, basically, from Allah. So that's what he was trying to say. He says, look, look at the fruit in your life. You're sick. You're praying Allah every day to heal you. But it seems Allah is deaf because he's not hearing any of your prayers. I was like, oh, you got a point right there. It's true.

It doesn't speak to me. So he said, basically, if the fruits are not good, then it means you might need to change the tree. I said, okay. So he said, you know, my Jesus is alive. He can heal you. I said, blah, blah, blah. Show me, show me the money.

So he said, okay, come to my house in two or three days. We will pray for you with my mom in the name of Jesus and you will be healed. I said, okay. So yeah, so I'm going to their house. They just lay their hands on my back and they say, in the name of Jesus, you are healed. And boom, instantly I could run, carry a heavy weight, play rugby again. I was like, man, this Jesus is powerful. You know, he showed me some things that in minutes he showed Jesus showed me some things that Allah could not show me in years and I

was Wow okay I've got a ton of questions for you about this so you were in relationship with him for about four years if I got that right is that correct four years yeah you had debates you had discussions what got your attention was that he just lived differently it was the life that he lived and just his boldness to say Jesus will heal you now I want to come back to what followed after he healed you but you know what his story was where did his confidence come from to say that his own faith you know the backstory of him so I know a bit but basically he was just you know one of these evangelical really in love

with Jesus and he was also touched himself not with a healing but it's like he got an anointing from the Holy Spirit when someone prayed on him and that he received. He was a Catholic before but as he was digging into the Bible and the Word of God and talking to the Father, he realized that Catholicism was not the way he should practice his relationship with God. So he moved out of this and went into being an evangelical. So that's a few things I know, but just, I would say a common Christian, full-time Christianity, not in full-time ministry,

but full-time Christianity and really in love to know Jesus and to make him known. That's basically this passion. Have you had back trouble since? Was it completely healed? Did you start playing again? What happened? Yeah, I did start playing again. I could carry heavy weight.

I could, so there was no pain at all for a couple of years. Once in a while I did have some attacks from the enemy trying to convince me that there was maybe some healing that didn't take place. But I mean, that was really short. And I could stand by then. But for the first years, I mean, this was just a miracle. And the first thing that I wanted to say is to go and see my parents and communicate that to them, you know, but not knowing how they would react. So that's basically where I was at the time okay so let's before we get to your parents okay this convinces you

that all his arguments were true and that Jesus is real was there a moment of like okay I'm a Christian or I got to start reading the Bible or I just got to confess my sins like what did that do to your faith? And what did that look like and then I want to hear what it was like when he told your parents Yeah, excellent question. So that led me basically to To start because I was already You know starting to compare the Bible the Quran once we had these debates with my friend I was trying also to convince him,

you know, as I said. So I was trying to read the Quran and find arguments in there, try to read the Bible and compare, you know, who is Jesus, who is Muhammad. And in one of the instances of discussions that we had actually, he advised me, recommended me, I hope it's okay to advertise this, but he recommended me to read that book, which is Jesus and Muhammad by Dr. Marc A. Gabriel. So if that's okay, Dr. Marc-Yves Gabriel is basically a PhD teacher in Islamic studies in the most prestigious university of the Muslim world in Egypt called University Al-Azhar. So any Muslim will know about this university, that's the most prestigious one. And in that book, I read things that I was really past, you know, really, really amazed. For example, one of the things that he says is that, you know,

it's not by looking at Muslim or Christian that you will know what Islam is or what is Christianity, because people are imperfect. Look at the founder, look at the source. Look at the founder of the religion, Jesus Muhammad, and look at the book of teachings that they left behind, the Bible and the Koran. True, I mean, makes sense. So I started to do that and I went into the Koran because, as Ismaili Shia Muslim you don't read the Quran you let basically this Aga Khan spiritual leader to translate the divine messages for you and you just you know like the pope or I don't know what you want to say but basically yeah you

rely on that spiritual leader to share with you the message that you need to know, but you won't go into the Koran. So the idea is I'm digging into the Koran. I'm digging into the Bible, trying to look for, you know, what the life of Jesus is, what the life of Muhammad. I see that Muhammad married a girl at nine years old. He killed many people. He had a child with her at 11. And when you compare that to Jesus, I mean, even in the Quran, Jesus is actually portrayed as someone who has never sinned, who was born of a

virgin, Maryam, which is Mary. He is the Spirit of God. He is the Word of God. He sat on the right hand of God. He has done many miracles. I mean all this in the Quran. And the biggest thing that really blew me up is that he is Al-Masih, Isa, Jesus. Al-Masih, he is the Messiah. The Messiah that's going to come back on a white horse, not even one time. It's mentioned 11 times in the Quran that Jesus is the Messiah. And I was like, what? But I mean, Jesus has this position in the Quran that Muhammad, who is supposed to be the best of the best, the last of the prophet, doesn't even have. And Jesus is the one who's coming back. But Mohammed is dead. So I was trying to, you know, question my imam at the mosque and asking a lot of

questions like this. And funny enough, you know, when they prayed for me that day for healing in the name of Jesus, I think I basically opened a door in my heart of saying, okay, prove me, you know, and the Bible says that God says that challenge me and you'll see, you know, and by doing that, it's like a veil was really lifted off my eyes, a veil that I didn't even know that I had that veil, you know, I was blinded. And I continued to go to the mosque with my parents. But it was like, you know, God was showing me different things that was really bizarre. Like, so it was almost like a sect.

Now you need to know that Ismaili Shia Muslim is kind of a sect somehow. And this spiritual leader is kind of a guru. Now that I see that, you know, with external eyes. So basically, you give some money to the Imam for him to forgive you of your sins. And I was like, but this guy is a sinner just like me. How can he forgive me my sins? And we were giving food to dead people. So I was asking question to my Imam like, but imagine that the person who died doesn't

even have any family to pray for him because you know, they believe that there's different stages to which heaven. So the more food and the more prayers you do to the dead, the quicker they will reach heaven, they will be making it. And I was asking my imam, but if the person doesn't have any family compared to the one who has lots of people praying for him and giving lots of food because maybe he was rich or what, then that's a bit unfair, no?

So he was not able to really respond to those questions. And I was also telling what I discovered in that book, like that Jesus is the Messiah that is coming back. He said, yeah, we know Messiah is coming back. I said, so why don't we preach that in the mosque? I mean, people ought to know who is the Messiah, who is coming back. And something, you know, I really think logically because I studied math. So Jesus is the word of Allah, Surah 4, 171, for whoever is listening and wants to double

check the reference. And the word of Allah is eternal. So if Jesus is the word of Allah and the word of Allah is eternal, then Jesus is eternal. So Jesus is God. Full stop. You know, this kind of reasoning that I had. And same also, I was trying to starting to question and I

think my parents and even the imam started to see though there's something wrong here uh why is he start questioning because it's wrong actually in the Quran to start questioning Allah you don't question Allah you just respect him he's very far very severe waiting for you to mess up to boom Give you a whip And which is was quite a big contradiction with what I was seeing in the Bible, you know Jesus being kind Trying to bless your enemy God is love the world love is not even the Quran. So another one God is love love is not in the Quran Conclusion God is not in the Quran. Conclusion, God is not in the Quran. Because it's the nature of God, you know, God is love. So you know, this kind of thing

and I was, you know, we have five pillars in Islam. So we have one of the pillar is to go to the Hajj to the Mecca for pilgrimage, you have to you have to do this at least once in your life so that you have those special blessings from Allah. So I was trying to look at the world and I did travel the world also for work because I work with the United Nations now in humanitarian work. And I could see, for example, in West Africa, there's a lot of Muslims who go because they are very rich. They go like five, six times every year. But at the same time, you have also those poor people, maybe disabled or don't have money to go.

And they will not be able to go because they don't have the money to go, for example. Or they'll go maybe once or they don't go. So I was asking my Imam, look, is Allah the God of rich? Because you have special blessing only if you have money to go there. And they were saying, but no, you know, it's the Quran says that if you can't do it, Allah will forgive you, he will understand. I said it's a pillar. So if I'm looking at the temple where we are right now, I remove one pillar, what happens to the temple? The temple falls down, you know, it collapses. So you know they would not be able to respond to this question and that's when I

started to say okay let me tell my parents what happened. And I'm not sure how they will react. But I came to that point because I had so much, you know, research being done, so much question unanswered, so much logical that was more going to the God of Christians and the God of Muslims. And I could see it was not the same God. You know, everyone. And I had that, you know, since the beginning in France.

Oh, it's just a name. My parents were even saying that all the time. You call it Allah, Buddha, Jesus, Shiva, Ganesh, whoever. It doesn't matter. As long as you have faith, you believe in God, you'll be a good Muslim, and you'll be there. Okay, so what's the whole point of staying in that religion? So why do you say that you are the best, you know? Anyway, so it came to a point where I say, okay, I'll tell my parents what happened.

Let me jump in. Before you tell your parents, how long was this? Because you had been healed. So I imagine it could be only so long before they ask what happened. From that healing to telling your parents, as best you recall, how much time passed? I don't think it was very long, actually. A couple of weeks maximum. I was really excited to tell them. So I didn't wait too long. But at the time, I didn't have, I didn't make that decision to be a Christian. So I was just still searching, I could see the contradiction, I was healed, Jesus showed me, you know, that he was powerful. But I hadn't made that decision to be a Christian. So to tell them, to come and tell them what happened with the healing was quite quick, you know, because I was excited.

And I thought they would be excited for me, too, you know, because they could see how much I was suffering. So I came to them and I said, look what happened. They prayed for me in the name of Jesus. And now, boom, I mean, I don't need my belt anymore. I can just run, walk for a long time. I don't need to take the painkiller because I'm not in pain anymore. I don't need to go to the physiotherapist for massage. I mean, I'm free. And they were like, okay, nice. And so that's when I, you know, say, but, you know, Jesus showed me that he's powerful. He's really more than just a prophet.

Maybe either way. And that's when my father started to snap because, you know, he was really a strong Muslim. And he said, If you blaspheme our spiritual leader, if you blaspheme Allah, you are no more our son and you get out of the house. Whoa. Yeah. Well, we did. Hmm. So so, you know, that night, um, I cried, I cried the whole night in my bed.

I was like, Jesus, I know you're real. You showed me that you are powerful, that you're more than just a prophet, but I just can't, I can't follow you and be in the street because you know, at that time, my faith, I was still living at my parents. I didn't even finish my studies. I could not, I could not make the decision. That was, that was impossible to me. So I cried the whole night. I said, I'm sorry, I won't be able to, to give my heart to you. Because I can't be able to give my heart to you because I can't trust my parents. I can't. Oh, my goodness.

So keep the story going. What did you do next? Where did you move? Did you finish up school? Like what happened after that? Yeah, so I did finish school. So from that moment, I basically, I was like, okay, should I stop going to the mosque? Or should I carry on going to the mosque? And I had that, you know, you have that social peer pressure when you're in Islam, from your relative, if you convert to Christianity, or if you dare starting to question Islam, you will be seen as outcast, you know, as a shame, the shame of the family. And I didn't want that

for my parents. So I said, Okay, let me continue to go to the mosque with them. But it was almost like I was praying Jesus in the mosque. And you know that veil that lifted off. And I was able to discern things that I was not able to discern before. You know, it's the kind of things that I told you about just before. Keeping on studying and looking at question to ask my Imam or even my fellow Muslim brothers.

But I didn't have answer and I had that thirst within me. I knew what the truth was, but I could not make that move at that time. So years went by. I basically finished my studies, got my bachelor in mathematics, and then I got another diploma in water resources management, and I got my first job. So my first job was a humanitarian mission in Mozambique, so not too far from where we were. And I went there. So I was away from my parents. There was a mosque in the capital.

So they were saying that, okay, make sure that you go to the mosque, you know, at least once a week on Fridays and keep your cultural heritage and all these things and your identity. So I used to go a bit in the beginning, but very soon I just left. And you know, being away from your parents and not having to go every day to the mosque allows you basically to do your own work of faith, you know. So that's what happened. And I also met my wife at the same time. She's from Mozambique. And she had gone into the world at that time. She was saved when she was eight years old. And when then she went back to the world when I met her, she was, she was in the world. But yeah, basically, I was really, you know, I kept on searching and kept on studying and

my wife also took me to church. So I wanted to see, you know, what the church looked like because I've never been to a church before. And I could see, you know, the love of people, people dancing and all these worshipers. That was nice. And as I was studying, I even discovered different verses in the Quran that really basically led me to know,

to discern the truth basically one of those is the surah 354 in the Quran which says that Allah is a greatest and the best of deceivers what Allah is the greatest of the deceivers and then I go to the Bible and the Bible says that Satan is a deceiver. I think it's Revelation 12 9 if I'm not mistaken. So if Satan is the deceiver and Allah is the greatest of the deceivers, something is wrong here. Is Allah Satan? I mean and later on I even discovered that lying is not a sin in the Quran. So maybe the whole thing is a scam.

And I'm maybe I'm led to believe that this is a scam. Um, and one of the topics that was really super important for me is death. You know what happens after death? death. So basically in the Quran, Islam believes in fate. They are very fatalist. Everything is up to Allah. So it's more or less like the Egyptians at the time. So basically what happened is that when you die, your heart is put in a scale. so you have a balance with the weight. And your good actions are weighed against your bad actions. And so if you have enough good actions, then you go to paradise. You go to heaven, you have 11 virgin ladies, enjoy uh welcome to paradise but if you have uh more bad actions

than good action so if you are a bad muslim then you go to hell so that's you know the burden that you have actually in most of the religion when you look at it only only Jewish and Christians have a savior. You know, every other religion, Buddhism, it's about what you do, how much you can do to reach heaven. Hinduism, same. Islam, it's all about works. Salvation by works, you know, righteousness by works, by the law. And that was such a contrast with what I saw in the Bible, because everything is by grace. And Jesus said, no, stop comparing each other to each other. It's not wise. It's not

about what you do, guys. It's about what I do. And I promise you that if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, then you will be saved. I said, what? That's too easy. You know, we are so formatted, educated to deserve things. And I always say that if I go in the streets and I tell people, okay, look, you give me $5,000 and I guarantee you 100% that you will go to heaven. People would pay. But if I said, because it's eternity, I mean, you don't joke with eternity, you know, and it's really serious. And if you say, you know, you can go to heaven for free. It's free. It's zero dollar. People would say, oh, too easy.

There is a trick somewhere, you know. And that's what basically Jesus came to bring, because you can't save yourself. And trying to rely on good deeds, good action, on works, on the law, put a burden on your shoulder. And you never know what is enough, you know, because I was trying to say, OK, I'm trying to be a good Muslim. And at the same time, I'm putting two together because at the same time,

there is a surah in the Quran which says when you are born at your birth, the angels write in a book if you're going to go to hell or if you're going to go to heaven. I was like, what? So, you know, predestination, fatalism in Islam is very strong. I was asking those long bearded old Muslim, you know, spending the end of their life in the Koran, going to the mosque, trying to be religious as much as they could. If they know, you know, you're dying tomorrow, you know where you're going? No, we don't know. It's up to Allah. He knows. I mean, that must be frustrating because you're trying to do as much

as you can. You never know what is enough if you will make the mark. And you might go to hell in the end because anyway, the angels have already predestined you to go to hell. So what's the point of being a good Muslim? You know? And I mean, that topic of death and heaven was really a strong one for me. I don't know if I had fear of death or what, but I really wanted to be sure. And, you know, if you find out, like in Islam, that you're going to hell or to heaven when you die, it's too late. It's too late. You need to know before, you know, that's basic, but it's too late. So all this together basically brought me to say, look i mean i come to a point to either jesus is really who he says he is or is the greatest lie biggest lie of of of all and i said i'm settled

i mean it helped also that i was away from my parents, I guess. I'm settled. I gave my life to Christ in church. And a few weeks after, actually, my wife also came back to have a relationship with God, back from the world. And I had that relief. I had that relief, I had that assurance, you know, and when I was asking these old people, you don't know where you're going, but I know where I'm going. And it's not because of what I do, it's because of what Jesus did. And I trust him for that.

And I mean, it's a relief, you know, because you don't depend on what you do anymore. So what you do, the good action you do is now a fruit of your salvation and not a root. You know, you're not trying to get God's blessing. Exactly. Yeah, you do it because you've been saved, not because you're trying to get God's blessing and because you're trying to get saved, basically. So you got married uh obviously became a christian did you restore that relationship with your father was he open to that or is he just closed the door and said if you're not a muslim this relationship is done very good question so actually so at that time i didn't tell them that i became a christian i got married indeed in church so i didn't even them that I became a Christian. I got married, indeed, in church.

So I didn't even invite my parents to my wedding because I knew how my father would react. You know, I didn't have the balls to tell them that I became a Christian. But I prayed about it. And the more, you know, I saw where they would go if they were to die, because they hadn't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, I could not bear that in my conscience. So I said, look, I have to tell them. So with my wife, we said, OK, let's pray the Holy Spirit to soften your dad's heart. And let's believe that everything will go well. But you have to go and you have to tell them. So three years went by after my wedding in 2010. So three years went by and then after we prayed

with my wife everything I went there. I sat, my parents were about to go to the mosque and say, okay, let's go. I said, okay, sit down. I need to tell you something. You better sit. And I was expecting the same reaction. Maybe I was full of unbelief, but I was expecting the same reaction from my father. So I said, look, I became a Christian. I believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. And my father looked at me and he said, okay, if you believe that Jesus

is the way, we just want you to be happy. I said, what? Even my mom looked at my dad. I mean, that was a miracle. So my mom even looked at my dad as is that you? Is that you? You know, because I was expecting the same reaction. And I was like, wow, Holy Spirit, you're amazing. So that's really helped. And then I tried to, you know, really show them in the Word of God what I learned, trying to convince them. And at some point, my dad, I think it was one year after, was diagnosed with cancer. Yeah. So when that happened, it was actually at the same time that I was going to Bible school. So I went to Cairo's Bible College of Angioma Communities in the UK, in Ireland was in the UK with my wife. My dad calls. So it's a couple of weeks after a couple of months now, after he was diagnosed that he calls us and say, almost crying.

And you know, he was a strong man. so to hear him cry was something really heavy. And say, I need you to pray for me, please pray for me, that I be healed, because I can't take it anymore. And my wife had a word of knowledge somehow, and she basically said, look, you are asking everyone to pray for you. You think that accumulating the number of prayers will bombard the doors of Buddha, Shiva, Allah, or whatever that will heal you, but the prayer in the name of Jesus only. So we want you to know that we will pray for you in the name of Jesus. You will get healed because we know that Jesus is powerful. He showed it to Jane Hill, to me, to us. We had so many testimonies after. We know that you will be healed, but you need to recognize that, acknowledge that it's only because it's the name of Jesus and not the result of so

many prayers done by other people. And at that point, he said, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I said, what? I mean, for a Muslim, it's huge, you know? We don't believe that Allah is the Son at all. It's blaspheme to say that Allah is three, no, Allah is one. And by the way, when I was trying to study that, because the Quran is clear that don't say Allah is three, like the Christians are saying Allah is one. So one plus one plus one equals three. But what about one times one times one? You know, that will hit the audience later. But basically, so I said, okay, you believe that Jesus is the Son of God? Let's pray.

You open the door, basically, of your heart, and he will show you. So we prayed. We took our authority in the name of Jesus, because we were listening to lots of teaching from Andrew O'Mac at the time, we knew the believers authority and the power of healing. We re-duced the cancer in his body and we said you are healed in Jesus name. So go and test yourself. He said ah it's actually perfect timing because tomorrow morning I'm going to do blood analysis at the lab and I'll tell you. I said, we know you're healed. You'll see the results will be clear. He hang up. He calls the following day and he calls us and he says, look, I just came back from

the lab and there is no more cancer. I said, you see, Jesus is powerful. The cancer is gone. We told you. It's the name of Jesus that is powerful. You know, all these things that I was trying to witness to him, and he saw. I believe he saw. I mean, you can only see that.

I mean, that's so obvious, you know. I mean, being healed of cancer, that's huge, you know, piece of cake for Jesus, but shoot for us. And so he could see, you know, that there was change in me in my life. I mean, I had jobs that I've never had before I was managing 24 countries when I was 30 years old, I was supposed to, I was not supposed to, I didn't even have the CV for that. I was no more sick. I was in financial prosperity, even more than my elder brother or my elder sister while I was still young. So there was, you know, signs in my life that basically, on top of that healing that my father and my parents saw. So and I truly believe that instead of debating for

too long, trying to debate, demonstrate the power of God, you know, that's where the key is. To me, that's where the key is. And your father became a follower of Jesus, presumably after that, did your mom? So basically, what happened is that about a year after, a bit less than a year, eight months after, he died, actually. He died and I was at Bible school and I was talking to the Lord and asking my daddy, you know, I was not able to see that he really accepted you as Lord and Savior. But this is really, you know, you know that it was in my heart. And I'm worried. I have to say that I'm worried because I haven't seen him, you know, giving his life to you.

And the Lord responded to me and he said, don't worry, he's with me so i do believe that on his deathbed he did accept the lord jesus christ as his lord and savior because otherwise your father would not tell me that um so i give him thanks for for for that uh for his mercy um my my mom is still alive and I'm still trying to witness to her. Each time that I have an opportunity when she's sick, I pray for her and she sees the goodness of God. She sees it and I know and I believe that she will give her heart to Jesus. That's my prayer genial i want to thank you for coming on for sharing your story uh so many more questions i would love to ask you but you've been generous with your time and i know you're going on a big trip soon in terms of your

work so we will wrap it up there but uh just can't thank you enough for being open enough to share your story and your life. I think it's dramatic and it's powerful and I love it. For those of you watching, before you click away, make sure you hit subscribe. We're going to bring you some other just stories of people coming to faith from other faiths, but also

specific apologetic topics that you will not want to miss as well. So make sure you hit subscribe. If you thought about studying apologetics, we've got a certificate program and a master's program below a graduate program and it's the top rated one of the top rated distance programs in the world at Biola would love to have you my class check that out Jane you'll hope you have a wonderful trip thanks again for taking out the time to join me. Thank you so much.

That was a blessing, really. Blessings over your ministry. Thank you for what you're doing.