The Sean McDowell Show - Real Life Testimony of an (Ex) Psychic

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

Jennifer Nizza started psychic practices at 13 years old. She was quickly drawn into the occult for over two decades until having a radical life change. She shares some dramatic and powerful life experiences while practicing as a psychic and then her life-changing transition to Christ. READ: From Psychic to Saved (https://amzn.to/3SCUCTCO Make sure to subscribe and check out some of my other videos for more on Christianity, Apologetics, Worldview, and other aspects of culture! *Get a MASTERS IN APOLOGETICS or SCIENCE AND RELIGION at BIOLA (https://bit.ly/3LdNqKf) *USE Discount Code [SMDCERTDISC] for $100 off the BIOLA APOLOGETICS CERTIFICATE program (https://bit.ly/3AzfPFM) *See our fully online UNDERGRAD DEGREE in Bible, Theology, and Apologetics: (https://bit.ly/448STKK) FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA: Twitter: https://twitter.com/Sean_McDowell TikTok: @sean_mcdowell Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmcdowell/ Website: https://seanmcdowell.org

Why would a psychic leave the occult and choose to follow Jesus? What drew her to the occult in the first place as a child? What did she experience and why did she leave? Well, our guest today is Jennifer Niza, author of From Psychic to Saved. Jen, I'm so honored to have you on and I'm really curious about your story so thanks for taking the time to join us thank you for having me on i i love your videos i i watch them and i love them so i'm really thrilled to be here and i'm grateful that people are exposing the new age because it's so prevalent um especially in our culture today so Well, you're absolutely welcome.

Let's get right into this and start with your story. And what surprised me is that you got into the occult as a child. So before telling us how you distinctly got into the occult, maybe tell us just a little bit about your family, which you described as culturally Catholic. Yeah, so my mom was raised Catholic. She went to Catholic school. Her aunt was a psychic medium and definitely practiced Reiki. She wouldn't have put that term. She thought she was a healer. And mom was always attracted to paranormal activity

and having those types of conversations. So in our home, growing up, we were culturally Catholic. We went to church sometimes, maybe for Christmas, maybe not. Christmas to us was the food, classic Queens, New York, Italian, you know, the antipasta and everything, the whole deal. And I didn't have any sort of relationship with Jesus Christ. I didn't really know who he was, honestly. I mean, I knew of him, but I didn't really know him. But in my home anyway, we were talking about ghosts, if you will. I mean, I know there were ghosts at the time, of course. Ghosts, paranormal activity, Ouija boards.

I didn't use a Ouija board. Neither did anybody in my house. But we had open conversations about these things. So, yeah, that was going on. And my dad was definitely, I would say, beyond culturally Catholic, maybe even zero faith in Christ at all. Mom kind of looked like she did have some faith in Jesus, but she was very deceived and led astray. And my dad was kind of off doing his own thing. So in your family, were these just tools? Were they tricks? Or was it like,

this paranormal world is real, and we know it, I think because it was in mom's life and she gave the demons attention and permission, they were definitely on the move in our home. Just stirring things up, doing things. And trust me, I don't believe there's a demon behind every corner. Sometimes you just have electricity problems, but when you really open that door and go through that door of demonic oppression, they will be there. They'll show up. You invoke them by doing that. So they were definitely messing around in my house and we knew it. We could hear footsteps. We saw the lights going on and off. The radio would do it. And that's how we would acknowledge that, that it was something from, you know the opposite direction for reasons you'll explain but it seems like about 13

you started intentionally stepping into this world tell us about that if you will absolutely so mom was a hairdresser and my usual disclaimer we're not throwing mom under the bus but mom got involved with a woman who read tarot cards and the woman came to my house to do kind of like a group reading deal. So it was private readings, little private readings, one at a time. And mom let my sister and I both have our own individual reading. And I was 13 and it was like a 15 minute reading. But I was in awe of the reading. I really was. I didn't understand how this stranger could tell me things that were true or how those cards could know something about me. So tell us what happens.

Kind of walk us through. We've seen images, maybe stuff in movies, but when you say a tarot reading, what does that actually entail? The shuffling of the deck. And of course, if any card starts to fall out or does fall out, the reader will look at that card, believing that that was meant to come out. And that will be part of your reading. And then they do a layout maybe past present future the cards the pictures on the cards what the cards are will represent a person an

outcome a transition in your life hidden meanings really supernatural hidden information esoteric knowledge that's's what it is. Yeah. Which is what occult means is something that's hidden and covered up. Do you recall, I know this was a number of years ago, do you recall some of the things that got your attention and thought, how on earth could somebody know this? Yeah. I think one thing in particular that I recall because it had just happened, which is no surprise. And I'm sure we could go through that later. But my, my friend, Heather, she was my best friend at the time I was 13. She had gone on a trip. And we used to write letters to each other. But she came home and she bought me this beautiful ring. And like a best friend ring or something. I wasn't wearing the ring. But she told

me this woman told me through that reading that your best friend, so-and-so went on a trip and came back with a ring for you. I mean, exactly. And I was like, whoa, yeah, like I'm totally in now, you know? Wow. That's fascinating. So as a, as a 13 year old, when you say you're totally in, what did that mean? I wanted more. I started seeking it out. I got my own tarot cards. My sister got her own tarot cards. And from that day on, really, that's where I went for my information. That's where I went when I wanted to not only know something, but when I was looking for some sort of, I think, happiness, peace or comfort in the midst of whatever was going on in my life. And certainly, of course, to find out things about myself, insight, where was I going to go in life? What was my purpose in life?

Anytime something would happen, how am I going to get through this? What's the outcome going to be? Who am I going to marry? You know, the whole deal uh anything that would come up my sister and i would consult the tarot cards that's actually we used to call it we used to call consultations let's go consult yeah wow interesting so in a sense this was your primary source of knowledge your identity this where you went to for wisdom this in, in a sense, you could say operated kind of like scripture for you, but direct personalized information is coming through.

So in some ways it might've felt more powerful than reading a book from 2000 years ago, didn't it? Oh, definitely. Lots of power. And especially then when you have people coming to you now, and you're not thinking of it that way, because at the time you're thinking, and I certainly did for many years, that I was helping people. Anytime I would do a reading, even it was the tarot cards for family or friends, we're helping that person because they're coming with an issue, their heart is heavy, and they want to know things. And I thought I was helping people, but there's a pride that comes along with witchcraft and the occult, that power, like you said, that pride.

You know, they're coming to me. I have this power to know things that I couldn't have known otherwise. Give me an example. You shared the one about your friend and the ring, but when people would come to you for information, maybe one or two comes to mind of just things that you found out for yourself, found out for somebody else that just you chalk up as like that just couldn't be coincidence. Oh boy. There was, there really are so many because I was in the new age for so many years, but I can recall a time when I was getting an ultrasound. And sometimes when I would just be out and about,

I would just start receiving information about people. See, I didn't, not that people need to use tarot cards, but I was a psychic medium. I ended up as a psychic medium. I didn't need any sort of tool. I was the tool. I was the vessel. And I just received information about people. So I was getting the ultrasound

and I started receiving information around this woman, the woman who was doing the test. And I said, listen, you know, I'm a psychic and I get some information. Is it OK for me to share it with you? Nobody ever said no. Nobody said no, ever, honestly. And she said, oh, yeah, you know, know the intrigue like the eyes like wide open ooh what are they gonna tell me and it was all about her brother who

died in a boat accident who he was with where he was what he looked like now I don't know this woman from Adam pardon the biblical pun in a psychic medium story but um i didn't know this woman at all and the information was so spot on well she became a client of mine she became a regular client of mine yeah it was so spot on her brother and you know and he was young you know he was a young man not a teenager but he was a young man 20s or or 30s, I don't recall perfectly. But you, you miss your family, you miss your departed loved ones. And rather than going to God, people come to the psychics, people come to the mediums, because they believe the lie that they're connecting, who wants to grief is one of the worst emotions, if not, I would say the worst emotion that we deal with. It's so

heartbreaking. And when somebody leaves us, what do you want to do? You want to talk to them again. You want to see them again, instead of thank God for his word and knowing that we could put our rest in the Lord Jesus and know that they go to one of two places. They don't talk to mediums, but you just want to connect with that person. So this woman in her grief just wanted to hang on, have another conversation with her brother, know that he's okay. That's a big part of readings. They want to know if everybody's okay. So that was one particular story. I share one. I did a group reading one time, which this one, we were not all in the same room together. I did the same thing like that woman years ago. I was in a room and every 15 minutes somebody could come in, they would be sent in and I would read them. And this one woman came

in and the familiar spirit that, I hate to use these terms, but these were the terms came through was actually pretending to be the man that shot this woman. This woman was shot by her uncle and sitting in front of me. And so this familiar spirit, because again, we know that it is not her uncle coming through. Received people do not talk to mediums. It's never them. It's a demon masquerading. And he was masquerading, I say he, as the woman's uncle. And the hatred that was in this woman's eyes. And I'm getting all the information now that's looking at me with daggers in her eyes, almost like she's going to jump out at me like I'm the uncle, and I'm just the medium. And the hatred was so severe

and the evil that I could even tell from that particular demon because demons masquerade is all different. They take, they manifest into different, you know, familiar spirits, animals, things like that. So some might seem nicer than others. This one was blatantly dark and evil and shook me to the core. I was sick for quite a few days. I think it was mostly the weekend, but it lasted up to a week, I believe. I felt sick. I actually got sick and that's kind of interesting to me because when you look in the in the scripture accounts of not that I was possessed

but demons can affect your health I mean you can even see that in Job our health can so I was sick from that but so the information was accurate and this woman was very angry, very, very angry about what had happened. Holy cow. Understandably so, if that had happened from her uncle. You've given some very clear examples that just seem virtually impossible to explain away by coincidence. Were there any times where you were wrong, where you got information and just fed it to people and were mistaken? I don't think I, I don't know what would have been wrong. Maybe the future stuff could have turned out.

I don't recall that though. I mean, my, maybe they wouldn't have mentioned that. I mean, my business was all word of mouth. So I wasn't out there plugging away, you know, trying to be famous or going to restaurants or have a website. I didn't have any of that stuff. It was all word of mouth. If something didn't transpire from a future, that's when something could be wrong from the future because demons don't know the future. They're good predictors of it, excellent predictors of it. Human beings are excellent predictors of the future. If somebody does something, you know, seven days a week on the eighth day, you're going to predict that your

loved one, your wife or your children, you've seen them do it every day for seven days. And so why wouldn't they do it the next day, but you're not going to be a hundred percent ever correct because you're not gone. So you don't know. So the future could definitely end up differently because the demons are merely predicting and they're good at it because they've seen, they've studied, and they know a lot about you. They know a lot about your family. They know a lot about you and they know a lot about mankind. They've been studying, they've been here for ages. So to them, it's, you know, not, not a difficult thing to do. So that's where something, but anything that had already transpired was very easy because

anything that demons have seen, they can report with 100% accuracy. They've already seen it happen. They were there. So even if it seems like something good to you, like a psychic working with a police officer, well, they saw what happened. They saw. So if they get it right, it's because they saw what transpired and they don't care if you get a little bit of something that you want, as long as you are in disobedience to the Lord. And as long as you don't hear the

gospel, as long as you don't put your faith in God, they just want want you the devil just wants you away from the lord wow i mean i i've no no that was that was that was helpful would you say you've mentioned things like witchcraft uh the occult psychics uh tarot cards ouija boards do you think behind all of this ghosts is demonic influence? Is that the explanation for all of it or some of it? No, I would say all of it, 100%. And I'm not saying that there aren't people out there that are scam artists, right? There's a scam. There's, you know, a huckster in every group, really, if you think about it. So there are people that do cold readings. Absolutely They do they look for cues maybe to make a quick buck or make more than a quick buck

Unfortunately, I mean I remember years ago because as many readings as I would do I also got readings too and I would do readings for myself, but I also went to different types of people like we were saying before I went to Numerologist and astrologers and things like that and there was a a woman one time, a clairvoyant, and she gave me a whole spiel. Um, this is going wrong in your life and you know, yada, yada. And if you buy some candles for me and I'm going to say a prayer for you and take a bath in this, that that's a, that's ridiculous. Um, but don't let that make anybody spiritually ignorant. The Bible is clear about divination from the beginning of God's word really to the end. So it's a real, it's the real deal.

It's just really demonic. So yes, demons are. And I feel very sorry for people that are pretending or doing those cult readings because either way, they still are invoking demons into their life. They open the door for themselves and those people that go to see them so in your life you you never were it never was like someone came to you and you thought well i've got to come up with something so i'm gonna look at their dress look at the way they're acting try to figure something out feed them words

that they might feel like i'm giving information. That was never your approach. It was always just channeling and then voices would just come into your mind. Like with the information just appear. Yeah. I love how somebody said it recently. Like it's downloaded. It's downloaded, right? You're sometimes I would see things too. So I would see things, images.

I would see lights around people. I could see, you know, black hair or somebody, somebody from my family, like a frame of reference that, oh, your mom is coming through, and she has, you know, black curly hair, and whatever, it looks like my aunt Edie, or whatever. And oh, yeah, that's, that's what mom looked like. That's exactly what you looked like. I believed I was helping people, Sean, you know, so I didn't have any interest in in scamming people, I believed that I had a gift from God. And that's what I was told. But the new age will tell you, you are you are given a godly gift. Yes. And you need to go out there and use it to help people.

And that's what I believed I was doing. I never had any interest. And and, you know, I was the girl next door, you know, you know, shopped at, you know, the gap, you know, and said, Nope, I wasn't sinister looking, you know, nothing like evil looking around me. And I really just wanted to help people. It's very, very deceiving. The enemy cashes in on your vulnerability and your weakness. And children certainly are susceptible to that, just like I was. Well, I read an article that you were talking about with our friend Billy Halliwell, and you talk about how Satan is an angel of light. And his deception is so subtle. And that was true in your case, in the story that you tell.

Now, at 13, you said you were all in, you're attracted to this, it gave you power. How did things start to shift? Because you didn't come out of the occult, I believe, until 36. So if I'm doing the math right, that is 23 years of doing readings, etc., being a psychic. When was maybe some of the first signs where you felt like you felt it was uneasy, gave you pause, wasn't helping in the way you thought it was supposed to help? Well, I was actually 37, but when I was 36, that was when I believe, no, I'm not trying to correct you or anything, but at 36 is when I believe no, it's I'm, I'm not trying to correct you or anything. But at certain you know, but at 36 is is when I believe the Holy Spirit reached me for the first time. So then for

the better part of that 10 months was the Holy Spirit doing a work on my heart. But I I didn't want to do the readings. When I cried out, I cried out to Jesus Christ at the end of my 36th year i mean i i was i guess you could say like a moment um i say a second where everything was so heavy the demonic oppression was so heavy i just called out on jesus christ the jesus i never served i never cared about really i didn't debunk him i just didn't care um and i knew a false Jesus anyway. But I cried out to him and he showed up for sure. But then I didn't know what to make of it. I was very vulnerable spiritually. I was like, but I don't want to do readings anymore, but I don't know why. So I had no idea. So I go through this kind of journey with Christ, I guess, right? Because I didn't know the words or what to call it

or anything like that I just knew something really radical had changed and I stopped doing readings for a while but then I went back to them and Jesus Jesus never gave up on me so I was 37 but here's the wacky thing I knew when I was 37. But here's the wacky thing. I knew when I was doing it that there was something bad going on too. I wouldn't have called it demons. I would say, you know, kind of like light and dark or like the good and the bad. And the thing is that anytime I had that notion, I was encouraged by the new age to keep using false tools of protection like crystals and candles and sage and, hey, you're afraid of it. Don't worry about it. Just imagine white light around yourself and you'll be protected. It's kind of like whether you look to the universe or

source or whatever, like this higher thing that could protect you from this bad, but they're not telling you really what the bad is. It's like good and bad spirits that you believe that you even have the power to filter out uh without christ so i didn't know something was you know bad at certain times i saw a lot of scary things um but not until christ uh started nudging my heart the holy Spirit did I really have the idea that something you know was about to change and it did so for the most part in the 23 ish years or so you were helping people mostly happy thought you had a mean meaningful life but there was just this background sense of like I'm not sure I'm really comfortable on the

right side here but the lies you were told in the experience you had helping people kept you going is that is that fair of your experience during that season oh yeah totally totally and at the end I was even teaching a divination class a divination group. And I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I loved being with my spiritual people. And I loved what I was doing. I loved the people and I was teaching, you know, law of attraction and chakra balancing and, you know, readings and psychic mediumship, guided meditation, the whole deal. So I really loved it. You know, if you think about it, even though I went through the dark times, you think about it even though i went through the dark times you think about it um when christ sets you free you know your eyes are open and you're

like oh no what was going on and when jesus saved me i mean there was no going back for me there was no i gave up everything for him and still do let's maybe define some of these terms I think would be helpful. You said you taught a class on divination. What does that mean? Sure. So divination is when you're seeking knowledge supernaturally outside of God's will and boundaries. There's always two choices, God or the devil. So the Lord gives us his word. He tells us to seek him, to put our faith and trust in him. And that's one choice. And the other choice, of course, is to go to a diviner who does have, who's under the influence of evil spirits, who are powerful, who do know things, who can do a great job manipulating you. And they will give you, like I said before, some answers

and some of that knowledge. And some of those things really seem to work you. And they will give you, like I said before, some answers and some of that knowledge. And some of those things really seem to work sometimes. And that's why people get tripped up, but it really worked, but they really knew something. Well, yeah, that's the idea because if they didn't, then how would you be deceived? How would you be deceived? So if you manifest, like I said before, you know, demons have power. I think about Satan even in the wilderness with Jesus. Remember, he said, I'll give you all these things. I mean, he does have power to do things and to manipulate circumstances, plant seeds of doubt, of course. And you might get that money or you might get that boyfriend for a little while and temporarily be overjoyed until the next time or until it's

destroyed because demons don't know everything and they'll dangle the carrot in front of your face just to say hey come on come over here just get away from god just get away from god so that's what divination is i'm sorry i'm giving very long no no no that's really helpful so what's there between astrology and numerology and is it a kind of divination? Yes, those are tools of divination. Astrology is when you go to the moon, the stars, the planets, and the zodiac signs, even as minimal as, if you want to call it minimal, horoscopes, and you're going to them for insight about your life. You're really thinking

that these planets have knowledge about you, who you are, your character, what's going to happen in your life. Of course, there's always some sort of future insight that somebody's looking for and believing they're receiving from the astrologer. And they do these very in-depth charts where they take your birthday and you could have your spouse's birthday too. And they'll do love charts and all kinds of fertility. And they're going to the stars and the moon, your rising sign and all this type of stuff to figure things out about you and give you insight which is conveniently a very nice way out of Acknowledging sin because after all if you're just going you can't help it. Could you? It sounds like from your story experience that really the lure to this is there's clear power

There's information there's identity. There's community New Age fulfills deep human needs that we have, doesn't it? Yes, it does. Yes, it does. And my heart goes out, honestly, because I remember how I felt when I was in it. You really feel sad at times. You really feel people feel lonely. They feel hopeless.

Like you said, it's their needs. They're just going to the wrong source, the wrong supernatural source for it. Because at the end of the day, the demons can't provide. That's why it's a hamster wheel, Sean, because you're going to keep going back because they can't give you peace. Only Jesus can. They can't give you truth, full truth, right? A little bit, but they can't give you the real truth. Only Jesus can. And rest, of course, in our grief, only God can provide these things. You're going to have to keep going back. And sure enough, they do. It's a very addictive thing. It's a very addictive thing. You're on that hamster wheel.

Yeah. That's a really interesting term to use, addiction. It fulfills such a deep human need that we have that can become addictive in many ways. So let's move. You talked about this a little bit before, but where were you at just emotionally and spiritually where you cry out to Jesus? Kind of take us to that moment. What was building? What happened where you were so desperate that that came out of you i think it was just such an end of myself moment and the demonic oppression really was and and it was so heavy and that is something that we should definitely put out there because when you're doing this that's who you're dealing with all the time and those presences were around me all of the time that i actually believed i had a physical fear sometimes of being alone. I thought somebody was going to break in my house. I didn't know it, but it wasn't a physical thing. Looking back, it was those demonic entities and they were always around me. So I just came to this moment where it was just of anguish, of upsetment. And I just cried out. It wasn't contemplated. I wasn't contemplating it.

That's why I believe it really truly was the Holy Spirit. So you cried that out. You're at just an emotional, spiritual breaking point. But then you go back to practicing divination, not understanding it, which, oh, don't put your head down. This is a huge journey you're in there for a couple decades um just trying to help folks understand what was it then after that initial kind of waking up but not coming out of it that made you go i am leaving this behind i see it now with clarity like what were those next steps yeah so about 10 months later a friend of mine who i actually had met in the divination group that I was in when I first started doing the psychic mediumship, we had become very good friends and she was coming over for dinner.

And I guess I hadn't seen her in a while and I had no telling me about Jesus Christ and the church that she started going to and hey You should come to this church with me and I'm like, no, I'm good. Thank you You know, I I think the the demons didn't want to let go of me You know what I mean? And again, I'm not blaming demons for everything. I'm not saying that, but it was many years, like you said, of serving them. So they didn't want to loosen that grip. But of course we know Jesus, Jesus has the end say of all things. So I, four weeks later, after she came home for dinner, I woke up that Sunday and I said, I want to go to that church today. And, and I did, I went to go to that church today. And I did. I went to the church and it was a very new experience for me because, you know, people

with their hands up in the air and they're worshiping and singing. And I'm, you know, all I had really known was Catholic mass back in the day. So I'm like, what is going on in here? But I like it. You know, it's cool uh but um the lyrics on the uh they had him on a big screen and one of the lyrics of a song was jesus saved me and when i sang that lyric i just flashed back to the moment i cried out to him and i started crying i i i felt free i had that confirmation that that was him it's almost like he was saying,

Jen, that was, I always get emotional on this one. Like that was me that day. Like I really, that was me that gave you that peace. That was me who was, you know, who showed up for you and you cried on my name and I was there. And I felt immediately free and I just, tears just came out. And when I went home from that church, I went right to, well, I went to Google because I didn't have a Bible in my little space. But I went right to Google and I Google searched, what does the Bible say about psychic mediums? Wow. And I never cared about the Bible prior to that moment. So I know that was the Holy Spirit.

He indwelled my heart. I knew it was Christ and the Holy Spirit. The first order of business that he had was to point me to the word of God and set me free from the devil. And that's what he did because you can't drink from the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. So first order of business, look at what you were doing and get rid of it so at that moment in church when you go home did you ever go back to the practices again or was it a 180 turn opposite direction 180 i actually said that moment when

i saw all those verses i didn't know all the ins and outs i was like oh no i mean even in the esv the word medium is there. And I felt like, I would say I felt like Linus in Charlie Brown Christmas when the spotlight comes out. Like God's talking directly to me, you know. And, of course, he is, you know, through his word. And I said I'm going to quit my job. That day I quit my job and I made an appointment with the pastor of that church. And that was nine years ago.

Never looked back. Not once. Nine years ago. So was it taking your house and also just getting rid of anything that was related to being a psychic? You removed all that stuff, just tossed it? Yes. One million percent. Yes. Gone. If I would have known then, I would have burned it. My recommendation is always, honestly, have a little bonfire and burn those cards, get rid of those crystals, get rid of it. Those are gateways to demons, they invoke demons. And certainly if that was in your past, you want to get rid of that. You don't want to have any weird temptations to go back to it. I mean, the devil is very sneaky, and he prowls around seeking to whom he may

devour so he'll he'll do it through those ways so you have to be very careful but yeah i got rid of everything and i'm not going to say there wasn't a little anxiety because it was like now what i've been a psychic for years of that was my job um but god started working things in the order that he saw fit. And I say that with, you know, in awe, because looking back, you can always see how God is moving in your life and what he's done. That's often true in reverse, we see certain things that we don't at, at the time. That's great. How did different people receive this like clients i'm sure still called co-workers these groups that you did lectures with how was that received well i was definitely dumped from my peers that's for starters i mean i was not part of that group anymore um

and then the clients that would call me gave me an opportunity to tell them what happened and tell them about Jesus Christ. The phone call just about, no, I would say every time, actually, because I can't think of. All right. Maybe there was one. Tell you about that in a second. But every time other than that one, they said, oh, good for you. Glad you're happy. Whatever works for you. And I was going through the whole testimony. And one night, actually, it was my baptism. And somebody was trying to make an appointment for a reading. And I'm walking out the church doors, texting them, saying, hey, I just got baptized. Let me share my story with you.

And, yeah, so I really didn't hear much from those people anymore. There was one woman who back then I called her my VIP client. This woman, it pains my heart to this day because she's still so lost. But she did let me tell her about Jesus. She let me spend a whole day with her talking about him. But only the Lord can do it. So I pray planted seeds. But she's still very much wrapped up in astrology and everything else too.

It's very sad. Now this may be too personal so you can pass on this but you described coming up in a family that was really involved in this and i think a sister what can you tell us about where your family's at or how they've maybe responded to your pretty radical move nine years ago yeah very good news uh on that front my sister dropped everything she dumped the tarot cards she got rid of it i would love to say that she's saved um but you know hey listen you know we're we're still praying uh mom and dad never again soar psychic uh they were, yep, never again. Still Catholic. Mom has dementia now. So I just pray, you know, I just pray. And for dad, I just share the gospel with him. I'm glad they're not doing the psychic stuff. Of course, my biggest prayer always, I believe mom is saved. Dad,

I'm not sure. Gosh, now they can never see this video. Oh, well. Airing all the laundry, but, but those were great changes. And, and it gives me an opportunity to share truth with them. My sister still gets a little, you know, like when something goes on, like when a light just comes on or something, oh, someone's here. Oh, or this was and I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no no so i keep trying to point her back and i praise god because she lets me take my nephews to church when they want to go and my nephew um dylan has a large interest a huge interest in jesus and the bible and so thank god for that i can take him um so but the rest of the, they are still addicted to their psychics. How would you describe the power that you experienced as a psychic with the power that

you experience as a Christian? Wow, that's an interesting question. When you don't defer to yourself, because the new age is that really you're your own God and you believe you have that you know that you have the same type of you think about the devil right he wanted to be God he wanted to be as much like God as possible right so what he gives to you is the sense that you can be like a God and you have that but you're deferring to yourself and you're deferring to these demons. In Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit is more than liberating. It's more than liberating. It's the truth. Boy, I mean, I know, I guess I'm having a hard time putting this into words. I'm trying

because there's actually something about relinquishing your power to the lord not that you had the power but like you're free when you don't believe that you even have to have the power and you surrender completely to jesus christ and it's like hey he's the pilot he's got me he loves me and he's the one that i go to. I even tell my daughter, you know, when something's going on, pray to the one who is in control, our sovereign Lord. He holds all things together. Why would we ever go anywhere else? But there is a freedom in Christ. It's like a breath of fresh air. That's what it is. It's a relief. That's what it's a relief. That's a real interesting way to think about it in the sense that there was clear supernatural power of knowing things you couldn't know and seeing demons in the one case of the lady whose uncle had attacked her right in front of you. That's clearly supernatural as you shift to christianity part of it you're saying is the freedom of not having to have certain power over people and finding that god is the source of power

just that awareness and knowledge is one of the greatest experience of power in your life is that fair how i how i captured that and not having to know like just not having to know realizing that you don't need to know and that god protects us in that way there's a there's yeah you described it perfectly do you have concerns about new age or psychic beliefs kind of infiltrating the church oh most definitely we're seeing it a lot, unfortunately. The Enneagram is a new age tool. It's always been a new age tool. There's nothing to be glorified or redeemed about it. It's a personality test. The creator of the Enneatypes admits to using automatic writing, which was a big thing that I did when I was a psychic, which is channeling demons to get information.

So that's what he did. He channeled demons to get information for those Enneatypes. So in churches, they're using this to see what your gifts are, where you should serve. Why would you want to hear from demons, number one? And number two, why would you start putting your identity in these tests, right? Because that's really what you're doing. You're saying these tests know about me and that's who I am. And people walk around, hey, I'm a number five. Just like before when I said, hey, I'm a Capricorn or you're a Pisces. I can't help it. This is the way I am. I'm a number five. No, you're not. No, you're not. If you're a Christian, you're a child of God

and your identity is in the Lord. And that's where we need to put our faith and trust, not hidden information. And that's what the Enneagram is. But you can also see yoga. A lot of churches will have yoga going on in there. You can even see cards. And I hate to be the bad guy, but Bethel, um, I know it's a very controversial issue, but Bethel in Redding, California is very guilty, um, of using, uh, new age things associating with divination cards. Um, of course, grave soaking back in the day. Um, I'm not trying to accuse them now of doing it. I don't know if they're doing it, but we've seen the pictures of them doing it. So that's a very dangerous thing. That's necromancy. Grave soaking is when you lay on top of a grave, believing that you're going to soak up

the gifts of that deceased person that the Holy Spirit may have given them if you're a Christian, but the medium will do it and the witch will do it to try and soak up, you know, the personality or gifts or whatever they believe that the deceased person had. And of course, we know the Holy Spirit isn't hovering around in a grave and you're not soaking up something, you know. But it's but it's sad because it keeps pointing people back to themselves and to the power that they think they can have and be like baby gods. And it's really sad. And the yoga is a huge concern of mine as well. That should never be in a church. That's a Hindu spiritual practice. And the core of their spiritual beliefs, Hinduism is yoga. It's an outward reflection of that. And that's pastures that are deliberate, that are worshiping false gods they're worshiping

their false gods and it always correlates with chakras and meditation so it's not just breathing or exercising so people need to be well aware of that i think there's something called breathwork going on right now too meditation people need to be very careful of mindfulness meditation new age meditation however it's uh uh dressed up is when you're opening your mind and inviting demons in you may not realize that that's what you're doing but the lord tells us to fill our mind meditating on the word of god and his law is filling our mind with truth with truth which actually prepares us for the spiritual battle because once you know the truth right you can see the attack of the enemy coming but if you're open and you're just calming yourself and you're

just you know you're a part of you is kind of going to sleep and something else can come in and i think of first peter 5 8 be alert be watchful because your adversary i mentioned that before too uh but you know real quick just to that point i just want to mention that teresa caputo went to the amen center in manhattan and he does brain scans and he scanned her brain while she was channeling while she was doing a reading and he said the part that lit up in her brain was the same part that lights up in people that are meditating so she was channeling so um an entity was you know again coming through so where was she so be very careful because you invoke demons rather um in a very tricky way they're very tricky um and that's not to put fear or anything like that. And like I said before,

there's not a demon behind everything, but don't choose to get involved with practices that open the doors to them. You know, these issues you mentioned are obviously debated within the evangelical church, whether it's yoga or the Enneagram. Presumably presumably you don't have an issue with stretching and breathing or with things like personality tests. But when you look at these practices and there's any roots from other religions, Eastern practices, new age beliefs at all, that's a pause for you. And you say, get away. Is that how you approach these is that your lens yes definitely definitely absolutely right because the enneagram isn't merely a personality test like we said the any types were channeled so you're hearing from demons why would you want to engage with that

absolutely yeah i would be very cautious i did a a whole show on that and stirred up some folks because I'm not sure we always pause and think about what's the roots of this? What's at stake? Is this wise? And I don't have a similar background that you have, so it might not be on my radar as much. Other things may be, but given your experience, that always gives me pause to think about this and just

err on the side of being wise. So really, really appreciate you weighing in. Now, you left nine years ago being a psychic. What are you doing now? What's your profession now? Wow. Well, the Lord has, I don't know whether I can call it a profession or not, but I've actually published two books.

That was just my first book, like you mentioned in the beginning, was to share my testimony. And my second one is to go a little bit deeper into the occultic practices so that people would be aware. And I believe book three, four, and five will be on the way. You know, within the next couple of years, God is really moving. And he's given me a full time ministry. I went into very scary waters, but only with the Lord. TikTok, I started on TikTok. And you know, listen, I'm an older person who didn't know how to work technology. Man, I didn't even know how to use Word document in 2015. So, you know, so my daughter downloaded TikTok and I was making these little videos. And then I started praying for people, reading scripture, doing these lives and sharing the truth about the new age. And

and witch talk is a real thing. And it's huge. That hashtag has so many views and the readings are every other video on TikTok. It's a shame. So people, thank God, other ex-New Agers too, will come out and share the truth. But I've made, it's become a whole ministry for me, Instagram and TikTok and, you know, my website. And I talk to people. I do the best I can answering messages and praying with people. So that takes up a lot of my time. So which talk is the hashtag on TikTok of people who are doing occultic type practices, making videos, they're getting huge hits. So you're getting on there praying for people, trying to show the lies, countering it. I can imagine that would be pretty heavy. I'm not directly in that realm, but although I am on TikTok and post videos on there, sometimes

encountering the lies is just, it's exhausting and there's a heaviness to it. I would imagine when you're dealing with something like the occult, the amount of it and feeling like there's a heaviness to it. I would imagine when you're dealing with something like the occult, the amount of it and feeling like there's not a lot of voices that are speaking up and saying truth, probably is somewhat exhausting at times, isn't it? Oh my goodness, so exhausting. And these people are doing readings on me, Sean. They're not even hiding them. Thank God I figured I had to take the public duet off,

but they were dueting my videos, every single one where I was exposing the truth. And they started dropping tarot cards and reading me. And listen, spiritual attacks are real as a Christian. It's not the same thing, of course, because we're coming at the spiritual attack from the winning side with Christ. We already have that victory. But it's a real thing. And I've gone through some

times of spiritual attack, but I have the Lord and he keeps equipping me and I keep going out there. But I've gone through, I've gone through a lot on there. People get very angry. They, they report things, you know, they want to shut me down. Basically the witches shut me down on witch talk and tarot talk and astrology talk there's a lot going on there a lot of manifesting so you've written a couple books you're on tiktok how else can people follow you uh publicly what you do well i'm really excited about the podcast um of course our mutual friend as you mentioned billy uh great brother in Christ. He's with Edify podcast. And I have the show with them now, ex psychic saved podcast. And it's all directed at exposing the

new age. So that's what it's always going to be about. I have many different topics. I have numerology, I have astrology, we go through star seeds. We're going to have a lot coming up. It's biweekly. So people definitely, if you want to go take a listen, I have great guests on there. It's on Spotify, Google, Apple, and Edify. And my website, www.xpsychicsave.com. And I try to blog on there and encourage people with the word of God too. And you can contact me there as well. So stay in touch. I can't hear you, Sean. I muted it because somebody's vacuuming in the background.

That was totally me. Final question. If somebody has a loved one, maybe a child or a spouse or a friend who's either dabbling or really into the occult, what advice would you give for that person? I'm going to say now something a little different than I probably would have said even a year ago. Be bold, share the gospel, and share the scriptures about divination. Deuteronomy 18, 10 to 12, Acts 16, 16, Acts 19, 19, because you don't know when their day is. You don't know, and we don't know when Jesus is coming back. So time is short. I would be bold. Pray before you say anything. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you. Because we don't want to beat anybody over the head with the Bible,

but we need to be firm and share the truth because that's love. Love shares the truth. And pray for that person without cease. People were praying for me. Plant the seed. Jen, I really appreciate that. Yeah. Thanks for your boldness. Thanks for your clarity on this. Lord bless you in book three, four, and five. And on TikTok, I try to cover and I've talked more and more about issues related to demons and the occult because it just seems to be growing and have such a hold on our culture. But I approach it from more of a generalist standpoint. I'm grateful that you're there in the weeds addressing this day in and out. So be encouraged. Really appreciate your voice. Thanks again so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me.