The Sean McDowell Show - The Grammy Winner Who Left Rock for Christ

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

John Schlitt was the voice behind the legendary '70s rock band Head East. At the height of success, he almost lost everything. What looked like the end of his career became the beginning of something far greater. He is now the lead singer for the Christian Rock band Petra. Today, he's here to share how a personal crash, a radical encounter with Jesus, and an unexpected call to join the pioneer Christian rock band Petra changed everything.He shares his personal story to faith and the unexpected call to join Petra as the lead singer. We also dive into why so many Christian artists today are deconstructing their faith, whether the Christian music industry has lost its way, and how to stay faithful to Jesus amidst fame, temptation, and pressure.READ: A Rebel's Manifesto, by Sean McDowell (https://amzn.to/3T3Sfdd)*Get a MASTERS IN APOLOGETICS or SCIENCE AND RELIGION at BIOLA (https://bit.ly/3LdNqKf)*USE Discount Code [SMDCERTDISC] for 25% off the BIOLA APOLOGETICS CERTIFICATE program (https://bit.ly/3AzfPFM)*See our fully online UNDERGRAD DEGREE in Bible, Theology, and Apologetics: (https://bit.ly/448STKK)FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA: Twitter: https://x.com/Sean_McDowellTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sean_mcdowell?lang=enInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmcdowell/Website: https://seanmcdowell.org

Our guest today has won four Grammy Awards and was the lead singer for the popular 70s band Head East. He had a radical crash in his life and was planning to leave the music industry entirely until the surprise opportunity came years later to be the lead singer for the trendsetting Christian rock band Petra from 1986 to 2006. Why have so many Christian artists deconstructed their faith lately? Has the Christian music industry lost its way? And how does someone stay faithful to Jesus amidst distraction and temptation? John, I get to interview a lot of interesting people, but I got to tell you, the chance to talk with you is up there for me on one I've been looking forward to for reasons we will get into but thanks for joining me.

Oh, my pleasure, buddy. I'm very excited to be able to talk with you. It's just a long time since the last time I saw you and you actually grew up. That is a fact and we will get into some of that and that backstory. But let me just start with this. Let's take us back. When did you first realize you loved singing and had a gift for it? Oh my gosh.

Back when I was probably five years old, I could sing. I enjoyed it. I was always nervous in front of people for a long time, but I didn't know that I had a voice as a little kid. It was so funny because in our little school, we'd have plays during the year. There was always a musical part. Everyone, there was always a solo guy, and I was always the one that sang solo.

It's just way back then. Then when a friend of mine decided to learn how to play guitar at 12 or 13, I said, well, I want to do that too. So that's sort of got me into that music form. And nobody else and we formed a band and nobody else wanted to sing. So I said, okay, I'll do it. I just wanted to play. I just wanted to play a rhythm guitar. That's all. I think so I did that. And that turned into being the lead singer of bands. It's just, it's all. So I did that and that turned into being the lead singer of bands. It's just funny. I just knew I could do it and as time went on, it developed even more and more. Tell me about your family growing up.

Was your family religious? Were they Christians? What was the Schlitt family like? Well, we were an American family and back then then, that meant, yes, you knew. You knew about God. But my mom was a Catholic, my dad was a Lutheran. And the truth is those two different religions almost split up our family. And so when I was old enough, my parents basically said, John, this is almost splitting our family. You decide

what religion you want to be when you grow up. You make the decision. So when I was in high school, I never went to church at all, through college. I knew God. I mean, I prayed to God every night because my father had had four heart attacks when he was very young. And I was always scared that I'd wake up and he'd be gone. So I prayed to God every night for him to be to wake up. And I mean, I was sincerely praying to that higher being. But did I know the only thing I knew about Jesus was he was in the Bible,

along with all the other names, which I hadn't read. So... How to put it... I was an American Christian at the time. Fair enough. You know, let's just say that. Where did you grow up, by the way? A little town called Mount Pulaski, Illinois. It was a suburb of Springfield, which is the capital of Illinois in the mid middle of the state.

Little bitty town, about 1700 people, including dogs and cats. And you know, I hated it because everybody knew what I was what I was doing. You know. You couldn't get away with anything, but looking back at it, it probably was a good thing because it helped me to, I guess, learn to be respectful, wash my P's and Q's, not get too carried away. The biggest rebellion that I did was I was in a rock band and tried to grow so, and tried to grow my hair long. And, uh, yeah, but that, that was about it. I grew up in a small town in the mountains of San Diego. And by the time I was born, my dad was already bestselling author, world famous. And so people enjoyed telling my dad when I said, or did things that were not in line with what a Christian should do.

And he'd tell me, he's like, you know, son, just so you know, people tell me stuff. And there was some truth to it. So I get the small town vibe. Tell me about Head East. I was born in 76, so I have no collective memory of this band. But what was the band like? What was it being a part of it?

How did you join it? Give us the backstory. Well, it was a secular counterpart of, of, of Petra. It was exact formula of five people, guitar player, keyboard player, drummer, bass player and singer, and a lot of the guys in the band sang. So there was a lot of harmony just like Petra. It was funny. In fact, uh, uh, we, we actually, I joined it between my freshman

and sophomore years in college. And it's a long story there too. I basically told the guys in the band, you've got everything you need but me. And they said, oh really? And they took me out the beginning of the summer. I hadn't even left college yet. Went out to one of their sock ops and tried out a couple of songs with them. And they basically, yeah, you can sing. That summer, we went from a sock op band

to a big, to a real successful, how to put it, bar band and that was actually a big step up in the musical genre and we were so busy from then on I almost flunked out of my sophomore year in college I quit the band twice once before once before my semesters of first semester of the finals of my first semester as a Southmoor, and then finally the second semester as a Southmoor, I had to quit totally. The band went on. I said, guys, I can't sing anymore until I've graduated.

I've got to get my degree. They said, we're going to be super big by that time. I said, very possible. So I watched them I watched them develop. And they they went through ups and downs and stuff. And when I finally graduated, my on my last fall exam, I actually went with what was left of head east on on the road with them for about six months, maybe no, three months. And then it shut down. It was gonna break up.

And I said, guys, to the originals that I had left, I said, we need to get that band back together and it can do it. And long story short, we got everybody but the guitar player, we got everybody with a guitar player. We got a new guitar player, and he ended up being our writer. Went on for about two, three years working in bars, basically college bars and then city bars.

That's where rock and roll was developing at the time. Yeah, yeah. Secular Rock, that's where you develop. And we ended up doing our own record. And it was going to be a demo record instead of demo tape. And we decided we'd do a demo record and sell them why we shipped it out to all the labels and try to make up the cost of it at the same time. And a couple of people saw it, played it on some of the majors FM stations at the time in the Midwest. It went number one single, number one album on all those channels in the Midwest. And all of a sudden we were charting in the Midwest section of the country

and really didn't have enough record. I was the officer of our label, you know, I was handling the business of it and it took us, oh my gosh, six months to get our first 2,000 records. Because we weren't a label, they just sort of put, they did it whenever it felt like the type of thing. And we were getting orders for 10, 20,000 records from all these distributors just out of the blue. And I'm going, I don't know what to do. And we found an agent, a manager, who put us with several major record companies and we had a choice. We basically had a musician's dream. Record companies came to us and bid on us.

So it was amazing. Ended up with the biggest booking agent in the world, Premier Booking, had A&M Records as our label, had really great managers out of St. Louis, just went from a bar band to all of a sudden we're touring all over the world, well, no, all over the country with some of the major tours happening. And that went on for about, oh shoot, I think we started, the record came out in 75, it republished on A&M Records in 76, and we were on the road from then on until 1980, and within that, we also did five more records besides the first one. And I'll tell you what, even a musician's dream can turn into a nightmare if it's over and over and over again, every night, the same thing. I had a family, I was never home. Everything came second besides the band with the excuse that one day we were really going to make it and I'll be rich and we'd make up for all the sacrifice we made since then.

But with that came the backstage of the secular music system with a guy that didn't know Christ. And that's where temptations, peer pressure, boredom started piling up on me. When I first started the music, I was not going to mess up. I wasn't going to mess up my life because I had graduated as a civil engineer and I figured I'd be in music for two or three years. I didn't want to get messed up on drugs. And then I'd have a total stable mind and go out and be an engineer. Well, that didn't happen. And I started drinking beer like it was water because really backstage it really was. Water wasn't cool back then, so your refreshment tub was filled with beer. So I drink beer and I got to a point where I could drink a 12 pack before I even go on stage

and wasn't really even feeling. Wow. Because I started 11 o'clock on sound check and just sort of slowly go and got to a point where I didn't know how to be on stage without drinking before. But along with that came the next big successful high and that was cocaine. And then cocaine took me over.

I didn't think I'd ever be that much of a victim of it. But yeah, I was very, very dependent on coke, on booze. I drink beer, I do coke to get up, drink beer to get down, then got the vodka. And to a point in 1980, I actually got fired by the band. Oh. Because I was so messed up. I'm not sure if that was exactly it

because it was a powerful involved in there. But you know what? The guys that are part of the band now, they're good friends of mine now, praise God. For 13 years, I didn't want anything to do with them, but as time went on and my walk with Christ got deeper and deeper and deeper, and praise God, I was finally able to just say,

you know what? What you guys did was absolutely the best thing that could ever happen to me, thank you very did was absolutely the best thing that could ever happen to me. Thank you very much. And we got back together and I was able to play with them on some, some 50th anniversary things. And so it was a beautiful thing. I was really glad that I was able to get back with them and be friends because they were family. They were family for five, six years. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So you keep going. But that was that was a Heddy's time and love the crowd. Always loved my crowd.

But going backstage afterwards, again, like I said, that was a dark area for me. Had I did not have Christ, I was fair game. And I really think as I look back I still say that was the enemy's world and he had a plan for me and it wasn't good. Well bring the story full circle. So they fire you, you live in the dream but internally fighting demons. How did you end up turning your life around? Well I went on a six-month bench after I left the band. I went with an excuse that I was going to start a new band. And really, the only thing I got,

five guys from different parts of the country, great band, including my brother. I had my brother in there. And he's a great keyboard player, singer. It was really called the Johnny Band, because that's what my mom wanted me to call it. So I called it the Johnny Band, because that's what my mom wanted me to call it. So I called it the Johnny Band. And it was great, except for the fact that I used every day as an excuse

to get either drunk or coked up every day. I mean, it got to a point where I don't know if I was ever ever totally straight for 24 hours a day for six months. And at the end of that six months was my anniversary, my wedding anniversary, my ninth wedding anniversary. It was on the 28th of August. And what I normally did was I get totally plowed. Then I'd do coke and sober up, and could handle everything. I couldn't find any coke, got totally plowed, passed out, missed my party. And my wife, who that same six-month period got saved. And that drove me crazy. I could stand the fact that she tried to tell me about Jesus,

because I was too cool for Jesus. You know, I'll become a Christian when I'm too old to have any fun. That was my attitude. And so I wake up that morning on the couch. My little one-year-old son is looking at me like, damn, why are you on the couch here? You know, I just, he wasn't talking yet, but just that look. My five-year-old daughter is playing in the living room also, and I'm looking at my two kids and all of a sudden a little voice in the back of my head goes, you know, John, you're worth more dead than alive.

And I said, and it totally made sense to me. I got up on my chair and I looked at, and I looked at him, I looked at my kids and I said, I'm not going to use a gun. I'm going to, and I was, I'm sitting there trying to figure out what kind of pills I could use to make it as quick and painless as possible. And my wife tasked me with a shoulder and says, you know, John, remember you told, you promised you'd'd come talk to my pastor tonight. And I said, when did I do that? She says, last night when you were drunk.

And I go, you know what? Okay, I'll come talk to pastor. I wanted her to remember that I tried because I was I was set. I it wasn't it wasn't even a fearful thing. It was sad. It wasn't even a fearful thing. It was, okay, this is what I need to do to help my family, because this monster that I have become is not right for them. It's just not right. The way my family was functioning was not right. I was not a right, I was a good person for them. But I went to this pastor's house that night and make a long story short,

I walked in with an attitude and walked out with the Holy Spirit. And my life changed from then on. Was I perfect from then on? No. But I knew there was a burden that had lifted off my shoulders that night that I didn't even realize was there. I mean, that burden of guilt, that burden of, burden of guilt, basically, lifted off of me.

And I remember holding onto my daughter's hand as we were walking out of the pastor's house. And I looked down at her and I feel like the first thing God ever said to me was, John, you know all those treasures, you were trying to get, you know, that success? Well, your treasures are right here and I've been taking care of them. Now it's your turn to start helping. And it was like, wow, what a beautiful way to live. And as I looked at my flesh and blood family, I realized, you know what, as

I remember that phrase, and I became part of Petra, I realized the family is not just flesh and blood. It's the body of Christ. It's the creature made in the image of God. And it was a responsibility God gave me and I so appreciate the fact that He allowed me to be part of Petra's ministry to function in that service. And I never regretted a minute of it. John, I love this beautiful story. And I want to take it further into Petra. When I was, if I had to guess maybe somewhere between 12 and 14 years old. So late eighties, early nineties, my dad comes home with just four or five dozen

different tapes at this time of Christian bands, hoping that I'd listen to Christian music rather than the eights music that I enjoyed. And one of the only bands that I could actually remotely listen to was Petra. The others were like cheesy, I just were embarrassed by them, it did nothing for me emotionally. And so there was a sense at that stage, I'm like, oh, Petra's a cool band. Now, how did you get over this idea that being a Christian is not cool? And, or did you not even care about that? And was Petra a wave saying, you know what, you can actually be cool and have fun as a Christian and do rock music? Like how much was Petra an extension of who you were and who you became?

Well remember I had seven years of being in front of thousands of people as a secular frontman. So I was a pro as a frontman but that was only half of the formula because Petra needed a Christian front man. So for the next five years, I got into the word, actually, just unusually amount of reading. I wanted to know what this was all about. Why did I feel the way I felt now? Why did God actually give me a second chance? And as time went on, I didn't join Petra until after till I've been out of out of music totally for five years. In fact, as you point as you said in the beginning, I gave up I gave up singing because my guys

at that time, I was 35 years old. I was too old to be a writer. There's no way you know. So I was concentrating on being the best husband, Christian husband, father and employee. That to me was in fact, one day I sat down after the five years and I said, and I'm gonna do it yourself. So the first home we ever owned was the sort of the ugly one on the, in the neighborhood and I fixed it to where it was pretty nice. But it took me like two, three years to do it. So once that was done, that was in, in about five years of being a Christian, I, I was sitting on Sunday morning, it was actually Sunday afternoon after church, and I didn't have to work on the house anymore,

it was finished. So I'm sitting there going, wow, okay, sort of twiddling my thumbs and that kind of wife. And I said, well, okay, I've got a great church, a great job, my kids are going to Christian school, I got a new home, a great job. My kids are going to Christian school. I got a new home, healthy family. Wow, this must be the American dream. And I don't know why I said that, but the American dream. And all of a sudden a voice, I mean like it was right behind me going, this isn't it. Don't be content with this. There's more." And I looked around and go,

Babe, I think God just talked to me. And she's, what'd he say? And I said, and I told her, you know, the whole speech is, well, what do you think it is? I said, I have no idea. Soon after that, a prophet came to our church. He wasn't a very good guy. I didn't like him. I thought he was very... Personality-wise, he was not a cool guy. But he came up to me one of the many nights, I mean, every night, every night.

One of the nights he says, John, you're in for a big change. And you have to understand those five years of being a Christian, I went through a lot of changes. And when I bought my first home, I thought I was established and no more changes. And when he said that, I'm going, oh no. And he goes, oh no, no, this is gonna be your heart's desire. And what would that be? I thought I had my heart's desire. Like I said, I great job. He goes, no, this is gonna be your heart's desire. I said, wow. Okay. And I just let it

sit for a while. And shortly after that, we get a call from my brother, who was on my first head east album. He was one of the crew guys. And make a long story short, Bob Hartman was looking for me, because first of all, he knew I was a Christian. His old singer, Greg, was leaving and someone suggested my name. And so he was searching me down.

I had an unlisted number. I gave up music. I didn't want to have anything to do with it. Secular music. Sure. Because there was a lot of temptation. Right when I decided to leave it, there was a lot of temptation as always to go into other bands for me. And I said,

no, I can't. I will, it'll destroy me. As a baby Christian, I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to resist. So, Bob finally headed me down through my brother. My brother called me and says, this guy, Bob Hartman wants to talk to you I said Bob Hartman of Petra Because by that time I was a major Petra fan Because someone had handed me a Petra record says this sounds just like your old bed, but Christian I said yeah, right I had given up music

Because as you pointed out I couldn't listen to Christian music. It was just, it was not my cup of tea. I'd rather not listen to music at all than that style of music. So when I heard Petra, I'm going, oh my gosh, this is what rock could be. Oh my God. And I was so disappointed because I thought it was too late for me because of all the stuff I did with Ted East. I was so disappointed because I thought it was too late for me. Because of all the stuff I did with Ted East, I was so dirty. Why would God use such a dirty creature like me? And praise God, before Bob called me, I had this... There was one day where I was sitting here feeling dirty, and God goes, John, which of the sins that you did is greater than my

blood? Wow. And it freaked me out a little bit and I go, Oh my gosh, what was I thinking? That actually opened up the door that when Bob said, I'm calling you because I want to know would you consider singing for Petra? And because of the prophet, because of that, of what I felt God said to me, I knew for a fact that's exactly what I was supposed to do. And I said, let's do it. And he goes, don't you think you should pray about it? Yeah, I knew though. I knew. And that so really when you look back, hindsight's an amazing thing. And God had seven years of training me to be a front man, and five years of getting deeply deep into the word. And you asked me, was I sure?

Why would I wanna do? I knew for a fact, this is what God had in store for me. It totally made sense to me. And there was many Christian bands, you know, little bands that would call and say, John, would you sing? And my wife would go, it's not God, it's not God. And when Bob called me, she was like, that's what we've been waiting.

So when I started in Petra, I knew that I was supposed to be there. I knew how powerful rock and roll was. And I knew that the message that Petra wanted to deliver was the most exciting subject in the history of mankind. Why not use an exciting music form to sing about the most exciting subject in the history of man? And so I never had doubts at all.

What were some of the challenges like doing this kind of music when so many in the church would take issues with it? I mean, in the eighties, the monster really was sex, drugs, and rock and roll. And in the minds of many people, you can't separate those. So rock itself was of the devil. What were those battles like? How did you overcome them? Walk us through that period, if you will.

come them, walk us through that period, if you will. Well, the first years of Petra, we spent all our afternoons having pastor luncheons, youth pastor luncheons, or our shows to explain, give our testimony, explain why we do it, can we have volunteers to help us. And it was our attempt to try to explain our vision, why we were doing what we're doing. And I would say it helped a little.

But when you have someone whose mind is set, who've been trained their whole lives, that this is evil, this is not, there's not a lot of open mindedness in the church sometimes. I'll tell you what, your dad, when we went on tour with Josh McDowell, it was a total, it was a breakthrough that Petra had been trying to do for so long. Now Petra by this time had done a lot, actually as an evangelistic tool. In other words, our music was working very well with people that were discovering Christ and for kids that were in the church and were using our music to prove that they were still cool. I hate to put it that way. But as you said, when you listen to Petra,

you could play it for your friend because this is a cool band. The music was for real. And that was that really was our goal for Christian for being evangelist to where kids that would never walk into church could hear the message through a music form that they were comfortable with. And for Christian kids to say, this is my band. I don't have to listen to so and so or so and so. Or I can listen, but I can listen to my band too. And you play it in your car when your friends are there and they go, whoo, wow, who's that? Instead of, who's that? You know, and it was a fantastic tool for Christian kids, non-Christian kids to be introduced and refreshed with the gospel. And so it was, but when your dad

joined us, or when we joined him, we it was over like a three album period. I think it was it was Petra. It was This Means War on no fork. This Means War on fire. Petra Praise One and Beyond Belief. That whole genre. We went on tour with Josh This means war on fire, pep to praise one and beyond belief. That whole genre, we went on tour with Josh McDowell and Josh and these luncheons we were talking about, that man could put everyone in their place. It was so cool. Bob and I and the other guys, but usually it was Bob and I, would go and we'd just sit there going, yeah, we couldn't tell them this. We couldn't tell them this.

I mean, it was such an eye-opener to the church that we were allowed to actually do what we do and not be totally chastised by so many churches. And then when they gave us a chance, they realized, wow, these guys, these guys are doing God's work. They could tell by the fruit, as Josh would say, he would say,

judged by the fruit, judged by the fruit. And he was such a support, we love Josh. Josh has always been a very important part of Petra's ministry, important part of the guys' memories of him. So when you see him, tell him, I appreciate him more than you. For sure. Well, that brings back such memories. I remember being running around backstage at events, seeing you guys talking to you.

And as a kid, it's like, oh yeah, my dad's Josh. I'm proud of him. But I was like, my dad plays, he sings with Petra. That like gave me even cooler, you know, vibes, so to speak. And so I had- He was cool. I mean, he'd go backstage with us and say some of the weirdest stuff. What did you say?

I mean, it was a looser. You know, everything was just the, always knew exactly what to say and we got that victorious. It was very cool. I love that. I do remember, I'm guessing it was probably early 90s, the first time I heard a Michael W. Smith or Amy Grant song on like the Secular Radio station. And I thought it was so cool and so interesting. Looking back, it's a little funny that I felt that way and it's somewhat of a commentary of evangelical culture looking back 30 years later. But were you guys at that point saying, we want to break through kind of like

Striper wanted to break through, or is it like, we just want to serve the church and we want to do explicitly Christian music like Petra did? Both. Both. We want to do exclusively Petra Christian music, but we wanted to break through, we did, because if we do, so many more people will hear our message. Was that gonna happen?

Not probably for us, because we were too synonymous for being a Christian band. We couldn't go through the gatekeepers. I hate to put it, we couldn't sneak through the gatekeepers with I hate to put it, we couldn't sneak through the gatekeepers with just sweet music or just sing about God. That wasn't Petra, Petra was talking about Christ. And Petra has always talked about Christ

because Christ is our savior. He is the one that sacrificed his blood for us. He's the one why you and I can talk and know where we're going when we die. And so it to say and trust me many secular labels well the one we actually were with which is funny it was the same label as I was with with head east. We were on their label jointly with Word. And they said, hey, can you just tone it down? Just instead of saying, just say God, and we can sell this weed.

Oh yeah. And we said, no, we can't do that. We feel that's a sacrifice. Well, then it's going to cost you. I said, well, then that's what we do. And so, but it was worth it. Did we hit our glass ceiling? We always call it a glass ceiling. It was a Christian glass ceiling. It's as far as you could go. And in meanwhile, we got to make sure that the Christian radio would play us. And there was a certain formula there where we had to watch out for. There was never a time ever in Petra's career where we had free reign to be able to do what we wanted to do.

There was always a, we can't do that, we can't do that, let's be cautious about this. wisdom, because we never tried to fight the church towards our music style. We tried to flow with it to be harmonious, but be on the rebel side. A harmonious rebel. I don't know if that even makes sense at all, but we tried our best to be that band that the kids can relate to, but their parents don't hate. And that was not easy. I've tried to explain to my kids what the culture was like in the 80s

and how even just rock music itself, what people were so suspicious of it. And I remember my dad taking a lot of hits for traveling with the, I don't know, maybe calling it satanic might be an overstatement, but we would hear that at this rock band, Petra, and he just fought so many battles, like I know you guys did for people

to see the heart of the message behind it. Looking back, I guess two-part question. Does it surprise you the phenomenon we've heard of so many high-profile Christian musicians, whether drummers or singers or guitar players, have deconstructed? Does that surprise you, these stories over the past 10, 15 years? And why do you think that might be the case? I can't speak for them. You know, the world is very tempting. And for instance, you get secular success and all of a sudden you're dealing with all these, you know,

these big bands, these big secular bands that have their own music, have their own lifestyle. You're partying with them, you're friends with them, but you are a minority in a vast area. It was like me when I was in their world and didn't have Christ at all. Well, they have Christ, but I'll tell you what, when you're the lone soldier

and you get bombarded with all the questions and why aren't you, what, are you nuts? The degrading of being, sometimes you're weaker than you know, And the world dangles big carrots. And sometimes those carrots just, you forget what it's all about and fall for it. And maybe the depth of their walk was never that great anyway. I don't know. I can't, I can't, because if you were a Christian artist and sincerely Christian, wrote great songs, there was a time when you really were walking the walk. But never underestimate the power of the enemy.

Now, never give them too much credit because we have Christ, and that's always greater than anything they can do. But be wise, you know, be wise and just be careful. We have Christ and that's always great than anything they can do. But be wise, you know, be wise and just be careful. That's a very balanced, gracious response. I appreciate that, John. Here's some questions that came on Twitter slash X. I mentioned I was going to interview you.

Oh no, oh no, okay. They're actually really good ones. They're thoughtful ones. Oh, good. Cool. And here's, I'd love to ask you about, which Petra song has had the greatest lasting impact on the church? Wow. Whoa. I can't say song, but on the church, well, I have to go album. I can't do-

That's fair. I'll have to go album. I can't do that. But beyond belief album, the album, that song is synonymous for Petra. We can not play anywhere. Shoot, I can't do solo work without being doing beyond belief. And I'm very excited about that. I would say our Petra praise one and two. And actually we did a third one one which was never nearly as big, but those praise and worship albums I think were very useful especially in South America and Central America for opening up doors to the mindset of where Christianity actually could be. The closing doors were opening a little bit,

and the concept of Christian music was opened a little bit because of that. I guess that's the best way I can, I think the praise and worship stuff was very important. I think Beyond Beliefs was a very important record. I think This Means War was a very important record. I think This Means War was a very important record. I think No Doubt was an underrated record that should have had a whole lot more exposure. But I mean, every record, it's timeless.

When you listen to it, it's still just as good as it was before, still entertaining, still has the same message. Those records, I mean, Bob Hartman is a, to me, a spiritual legend. His music, his songs, his messages are life changing. I mean, God used Bob a lot and allowed me to be part of that by translating it through my voice to be as real as possible. Great answer. Here's another one for you. I'm just going to word it the way it was worded. It says, why has Christian music limited its lyrics so much? Petra lyrics like Creed and Beyond Belief were so rich in informing faith.

Do you think musicians just aren't theologians? They have a different focus? Why might there not be as explicitly theological songs today in the way that yours and Petra were? I think two culprits, the Christian music industry itself and the world. And they work hand in hand. The Christian music industry wants to make a living. I get that. I think they lost the... And the way they do it now is they go totally praise and worship and it's edification and that sells. Christian Rock, I think now that's not saying there aren't people out there who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen to the people

who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen to the people who are going to listen So it's a matter of dollars and it's a matter of dollars, I think. Now that's not saying there aren't people out there that are evangelized. You just don't hear them because the Christian Redo says no plan. Secular is certainly not going to play it. And so they're out on their own like Petra was. The only difference with Petra is for some reason, God allowed our brand to grow into something bigger to where we don't necessarily have to have that anymore. And I will say that although the internet destroyed music, the way of making a living of music

Hmm. It also had the old way. It also has allowed Certain people that have that savvy about the internet to be to function within it and use it To get across their message. Mm-hmm. That's really helpful. Interestingly. I just a few months ago interviewed Michael Tate and Jeff Frankenstein from Newsboys, which is another band my dad traveled with a few years after he traveled with you. And their most recent album is just deeply theological. I was so encouraged that they are just talking about deep biblical truth and making it fun in a newsboys way. I've actually talked to my 12-year-old son about what I think the difference is between praise music and between like popular Christian songs that often appear on radio stations. And they're not necessarily the same thing. In your mind, what is the difference between a Petra praise album and a Petra Rock album? Well, I think the Petra Praise record

was actually a little more zeroed in on the church. It was more for edification. It was more to build up the church where our other stuff was absolutely evangelistic. I mean, when Petra started, that's all we did. We were evangelistic. But what happened was we would play. And when I say we, I wasn't part of this at the time, but they would go and play in the club, you know, at the parks, prisons, coffee houses, anywhere that they would allow him to play. And it would be, people would come and listen to it. And then as they got bigger, Christians would come because they have the record, they loved it.

They may have become a Christian because they listened to Petra. I don't know. But for whatever reason, the formula or the percentage got to be more Christians listening instead of non-Christians. So it became an evangelistic edification. And we certainly didn't want to short either one. So Petra's music, although the direction never changed, was always leaning more towards evangelistic, we also understood that Christians need that edification. So and on top of that, it's the only stuff that the Christian radio stations would play.

And that was the more safe Christian type songs. And we understood that, we said, okay, cool. And it gave us a chance to do some very beautiful songs two people on Twitter slash X Asked a question about how number one you remain faithful amidst so many Temptations and so many opportunities and did you ever really consider abandoning your faith? No, never I got a second chance and I've been so thankful because of it. Just what I came out of, the fact that I'm still here, God is so gracious. The fact I still have a family that are healthy, He is so gracious. The fact that

I got to be part of a band like Petra and go all over the world to do the commission that he asked me to do. Oh no, I've never had a second thought about it ever. So how do you remain faithful? You're still plugged into a church when you're on the road. Did you stay in scripture? Did you have certain principles? It sounds like earlier when you talked about the opportunity to go bigger on secular music but change out the word Jesus, you guys had certain convictions that guided you.

What are the things that helped you stay faithful amidst some of those temptations that came up? Well, for one thing, Petra is a Christian band with five individuals that are pretty heavy-duty Christians. Are we perfect? No. We get mad at each other. We get angry. We insult, you know, typical what brothers do. But when it comes to push comes to shove, we remind each other what's going on. You know, why are we here? For instance, before we go on stage, we ask God to forgive us for everything we did that day, because we want to walk on stage

as clean vessels to where He can use us and we can stand all the way. And when you have those kinds of principles in your life, it's amazing. You don't, you almost take it for granted, but you don't. Because when you walk on stage and you're singing about Christ and your expectations of what's going to happen that night is so exciting that it's hard for you to... it's hard for me to quote, be tempted by the world when I've seen what the world does and it's not that exciting to me. Been there, done that, I don't want it again. And as far as the other guys, I

not necessarily been there, done that, but they're just good people. They're good people. I've been with a lot of different Petrobands and we've all had that spirit of, of Christ and, and what it's all about. So never had to worry too much about temptation. What encouragement would you give to young aspiring Christian artists or musicians? Okay. First of all, be content with small things. Start from the beginning. If whatever God opens up for you, be content there. I mean if you're if you think you're a superstar and all you can do right now is play guitar and sing in front of four people, do it. Use it as rehearsal. God has a plan. If God's put

that in your heart, just always think of it as rehearsal. But be the best you can. Don't ever settle for second best for Christ. Don't in your mind ever say, oh, it's Christian, it's good enough. You should always say, oh, it's Christian, it's got to be the best because that's what Christ deserves. Amen. I love that. Well, so many questions I could ask you. Definitely want to respect your time. For the record, John, I think my favorite Petter song is

Get On Your Knees and Fight Like a Man. I love that song. Yes. I love that song too. Which song do you just... What do you love the most? Which song do you just love the most? It just resonates with your heart and your life and your experience. I make a big deal about how much I love rock, which I do.

Like with Jekyll and Hyde and all that. You know, Lovely Lord has always been like my favorite song to sing. When I do solo stuff, I usually put that in my set because it just feels so good to sing it. I love prayer, which I don't get a chance to sing that often. Creed is very cool. But then there's Beyond Belief,

Get On Your Neats and Ride Like a Man, I'm On The Rock, Jacqueline Hyde, oh my gosh, he came, he saw, he conquered, all these victorious songs that are just a thrill to sing. And in some of the, I love you Lord, I mean, Lord I lift your name on high, which is also victorious. How can you say what's your favorite when you have so many songs to choose from?

I should have known it was like asking you your favorite kid. Exactly. Normally I say that, oh, you mean which one of my children do I love more? No, I can't do it. Fair enough. Last question. Tell us what you're up to now. And somebody in Twitter was like, former lead singer. Which one of my children do I love more? No, I can't do it. Fair enough. Last question. Tell us what you're up to now. And somebody in Twitter was like, former lead singer, they just performed three days ago.

Can people still hear Petra if they want to? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You said former. I sort of cringed. No, Petra is actually probably more active than we have been. And well, the last three, almost four years, we've been more active by far than the 20 years before that because we were doing a 50th anniversary

tour, which turned into three years of 50th anniversary going on our fourth year, which we're not going to call 50th anniversary. I don't know what we're gonna call it. We've already got five, six shows around the world that are already scheduled and may have a couple of surprises for everyone in the near future. So yeah, it's not formally a Petra. We're still out there as long as God allows. You know, as long as God allows me to be able to sing and be competitive if nothing else to myself in the past. If I feel like I'm letting the folks down as far as skill factor, as far as capacity of my voice, that'll be the time to quit and then God will have something else for me.

But until then, and the band is playing amazing, then we'll do what we do. Well, I love it. And even if it slips a little bit, people are gonna have a lot of grace just that you're back up there singing and having fun and bringing us back to so many songs that we love and enjoy. So my bad for saying former, I appreciate the correction.

I wanna encourage everybody listening right now, go take their kids, support the show, check your website online, find deadlines. What a joy to go see you live. In fact, I'm going to make a note and see if you're anywhere near me and maybe bring my kids. I would love it. This is what I used to listen to. Or no, this is who I went out with. That's very cool. Only you can say that. Well, very, very true. John, this is such a joy. Thanks for being generous with your time. And this has been a real special conversation for me.

Folks, before you click away, make sure you hit subscribe. We've got some other conversations, especially on apologetics and worldview coming up. Make sure you hit that subscribe and notification button. And if you thought about studying apologetics and worldview, we would love to have you at Talbot School of Theology. It's fully online right now. We want to equip you to serve the church

where you're at. Information below. John, thanks again. We'll send you the link when it's out, but this is a real, real joy for me. Thank you. Oh, but my pleasure too. It's great.

It's great to see it and tell you that I said hi. You got it. Okay, man. It's great. It's great to see it. Tell your dad I said hi. You got it. Okay, man. God bless you.