The Sean McDowell Show - Transforming Power of Bible Study

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

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Tune into Hey, it's the Lusco's with Levi and Jenny Lusco, available now wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to a special episode of the Shaw MacDow podcast. You will not see this on YouTube. You will not hear this on the Think Biblically podcast. But I want to bring on my friend Scott Lindsay. And Scott, we've been friends, I think, since the late 90s. And I want to talk about something I love and you love, which is studying the Bible. Now, everybody talks about in Christian circles you should study the Bible, but there's reasons that we don't.

And as a result, we don't experience the transformation. that comes with this. So at the end, I do want people to know that I'm going to offer them, you're going to help me offer to them a significant discount on Logos Bible software. I don't want people to know this is something I use every single morning. I mean, now and then, I don't. Every morning, I mean, if I miss it, I like mourn and I regret it. Like, dang it. I couldn't study the Bible for whatever reason. But I've been using this for three decades, and it's transformative. And so, Scott, thanks for coming on. Super pumped to have you.

It's been over three decades. We've been friends, man. Yeah, good to be here. Good to see you. I was bummed. I missed you. You were in my neck of the woods a couple weeks ago, but my travel schedule didn't permit. And I didn't get to beat you in bucket golf.

But there we go. Oh, don't get me started. Don't get me started. Well, let me ask you this. Amazing, I've never actually asked you this. People ask me all the time. How did I start? And why am I an apologist?

And I have a story of that for another time. But why have you spent three decades plus your life focusing on teaching Christians to study the Bible? Yeah, I mean, obviously, in hindsight, I see the Lord's leading. But I joined Logos because I needed a job. I had two kids. We're just going to be Ron Real today, right? I appreciate the honesty. No, I was in the military, got out, took a ministry position, walked right into a church split,

getting ready to explode carnage everywhere. And my dad had retired to Whidbey Island, Washington, and said, Scott, get out. Because I was going to have to pick a side here soon. And my dad's like, don't pick a side. Just leave. I was like, well, dad, I don't have a job. So grace graciously sent us a U-Haul check. And we left town and moved to Whidbey Island.

And lo and behold, Sean, there's this little startup called Logos in this little town on an island. What year was this? What year was talking? This was 97, 97. 97. So I showed up that Monday morning. There were about 20 of us at that time in a converted barn and I need a job.

And they weren't hiring, but thankfully I found favor with the sales manager at the time. And he said, I have never done this, but come back tomorrow and we'll figure something out. And got the job at six. dollars an hour. Woo! Woo! And, you know, but hey, it's going to help pay rent, right? So, you know, my wife had to do daycare for season and just, just hunkered down and started working at Logos. And yeah, I can't believe 29 years this year. I've got the greatest job, if you will, I think, on the planet, because I get to work with you and, you know, many people helping them right and, you know, lead ministries and preach and pastor. But I would say the part of it that I like the most,

and really rather recently over the last two, three years, is seeing just the average Joe get excited about studying the Bible for him or herself. So Logos was created for ministry initially. But now I think we've created a tool that really can benefit anybody who wants to dig deep. There's no doubt about that. And by the way, I want to be. mention names, but you send me text all the time of like NFL quarterbacks. You're teaching the Bible to and famous singers, I won't mention. I think I live a charm life, but I'm like, man, Scott is living the dream, which is fun that you get to do that and teach people. But I remember, it must have been 98 or 99. I graduated from Biola. I was traveling with my dad as his intern.

You came to a presentation at the Josh McDowell ministry in front of like 10 or 12 our key leadership. my dad stands up on a chair in front of everybody and starts going, this is what I was looking for my whole life. I can't believe this, what we can do around the world. Do you remember that? It was like this dramatic, he was blown away at the technology.

Do I remember that correctly or correctly if I'm... You do. And that's when your dad became one of my favorite people on the planet, you know. And, you know, I think the next time I was with him, we brought him a Logos denim jean jacket. Like we had it custom-made. for him, right, so that he could advertise for us as he travels the globe. But I do remember that. And what's funny about that, Sean, is Logos wasn't that great back then. I mean, listen,

listen, it was, right? I mean, back it was. For it's time. Yeah, it's to me, it's like somebody getting on a chair shouting about how awesome Pong was compared to, you know, video games today. But, you know, and that's just been part of the great testimony of our journey is just, how we've continued to grow as the needs of the church have grown and technology changes and advancements and yeah it's amazing and again i know what's coming uh you know i'm in these meetings with our development team and i'm like wow this is just absolutely uh insane that we live in an age today that have tools to help us really understand scripture uh in such a deep way now this question we could talk about for a long time but just give me your quick

take on why is it so important for Christians to study the Bible? Yeah, I was thinking about that, and it just reminded me of Genesis 3, where the enemy says, did God actually say, right? And I think he's still saying that. And I think it's important. We know what he says. And as we know, Eve's response, where she missed it was she got part of it, right? hey, you shall not eat. But then she added, you can't touch. And I think there's the danger when the enemy knows that you don't really know what you're talking about. Ooh, I have an opportunity here.

And we live today. There's so much input now. We live, you know, social media. We just got all these amplified voices and noise. And I think it's actually more important. I mean, don't get me wrong. Reading scripture and studying has been important from. But I just think there's so many dangers today that just weren't there,

you know, even 10 years ago, right? So, and I mean, that's probably more of an enemy cultural answer. You know, I think it's important because in studying scripture, we see the character of God. We understand the scripture. We understand God's will for our lives. I mean, that only comes from being in the book, you know. And then obviously there's benefits to us personally, such as direction and discernment and wisdom and, you know, all those things.

But yeah, you know, one of my favorite quotes, I've not been able to verify this. Maybe you can, but I've been, I've heard it was Martin Luther that said, if you put me in a cave with a Bible for 10 years, I can tell you what's going on. I love that statement because there's nothing new under the sun. Nothing's happening today that God did not know was going to happen. And so I just think it's super important, obviously, to be in his word, especially with the craziness of today. Well, I hope he not only in his cave has the word that is the light, the scriptures, but physical light. We're visiting these caves outside of Hume National Park called Boyden Cave.

And our guide told me this, I assume it's true. I think he said within like a couple weeks, if you don't have light, you go blind temporarily. So let's hope he has physical light and spiritual light, this person in a cave that wants to know what's going on. With that said, it's interesting that you said Adam was tempted and Eve, because say, Satan twisted God's word. Romans 5 compares and contrast Jesus with Adam. The first Adam sin brought death to all. Jesus didn't sin and was righteous and brings life or the possibility of life to all.

Well, in Jesus' temptation to Luke 4, Satan comes up and he wants him to throw himself down and show his drama. Eat this bread and worship him. And what does Jesus do? He quotes Duranmi 8, 3, Deronomy 613, and Deronomy 616. the word of God to resist the power and lies of Satan. So it's powerful, like you said, with so many lies coming through. I'd love your answer on this one. What do you think it takes for people to genuinely cultivate a love for Scripture?

Because I think, honestly, there's a lot of Christians who read it out of duty. They read it. They might still kind of have a works-based salvation where I'm doing my good thing today and checking off the box. What does it take in your mind and your experience? Because I have a couple of thoughts I'll give to cultivate a love for the Word of God. Honestly, I'd say first repentance. And I'm, I'm speaking to myself that I think we just prioritize way too many other things in our lives.

So just acknowledging that I need to be in the world. word more. I need to fellowship with the father, and he's given me the main means in which to do that is his word. And then commitment, diligence, I think being part of a Bible study is essential. I don't know about you. I accountability is good for Scott. So, you know, Wednesday night Bible study with a group of guys. That's amazing. And honestly, a bit of an investment, you know, it does got obviously got to buy a bible got to get a good bible and there's you know resources books maybe that you've written or commentaries or bible dictionaries but um i think you can see when someone's committed to anything whether it be a hobby or whatever it's like it's where their

time and effort money goes um and so um you know i think it's the same thing with uh getting serious about bible study but the dividends are just so incredible i mean no No habit produces a greater impact on our lives than being... Hey, y'all. I'm Willie Robertson. And I'm Corey Robertson. We partnered with Echo. It's a new platform, not just streaming.

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And I think I've shared this in the live streams that we've done. But, you know, there's been massive studies that have shown the effects of the Bible. But what's interesting is there's something about four. Yeah. When they've looked at, you know, 600,000 people participate in this massive study. And one, two, three times a week really had negligible effect. It for some reason, four was the number you got to get to in a week's, you know, time to see the benefits of anger dropping, feeling lonely dropping. Addiction of pornography drops like 60%.

And then there's there's positives. Sharing your faith skyrockets to 200%. Why? Because you're full of God's truth. You know, you're ready to go. And so anyway, there's a great quote that I. love to share when I speak at conferences, but basically the heart cannot love what the mind does not know, right? And so I want to love the Lord more. I want to love his people more. I want to

love my wife more. I want to love my kids more. And the way I love my wife more is what? I know her. I mean, I ask her questions. I find out what she desires and what she loves. And, you know, and I want to give those things. But I think it's the same thing with the Lord, right? That when we know his mind, which is revealed in Scripture, I think we fall more in love with him, his church, and it's just, it's evidenced. I could tell somebody that's in the word on a consistent basis and one that visits it like once a month, right? All right.

How many days a week then do I study it? No, I'm kidding. You don't have to answer that. Don't even venture guess. I agree with everything you said, but I, absolutely love and I didn't expect it. I don't know why, that you started with repentance. Because what keeps us not only from building in the discipline, there's a difference with someone who goes to work out because they're just obligated to and somebody you know just like

actually enjoys it. I want to be the kind of person who enjoys studying the scriptures. What keeps us away from it? Arguably lies keep us away, but also our arrogance and our pride. and repenting reminds us that we need God and how rich His grace is. You know, for me, Scott, when I think about the time that I was fired up to study the Bible, and in my life, it's just been a slow progress of learning and getting older and falling in love with the scripture more. I hope in five years I look back and go, man, when I did that interview, Scott, what was I talking about? I love the scriptures even more. I really hope that that's where I'm at.

But a couple things for me is, number one, when I spend time with people who love God's Word, and they're not preachy about it, they just speak it, because the words flow forth from the heart. I'm like, wow, this person really loves the scripture. So someone sitting here going, I want to discipline, but I just don't know that I love the Bible. Well, repent, but then second,

find people who genuinely love it and spend time with them and have them rub off on you. The Bible has a lot to say about people affect us. The second thing is I saw this debate between this Christian atheist about the gospel of John and the deity of Jesus, and I listened to it, I was like, you know what? I can't answer some of those questions.

And I was kind of ashamed of myself. I was like, good night. How do I answer that? And it motivated me and it bothered me. And the other thing is the times that I've suffered and I've gone through physical pain. It just strips away these other things that are not as important as I thought and drives me back to God's word. Those are some of things in my life. And so what are the big reasons?

Like really quickly, list these out. I really want to get to people the resource you have to offer. But why do people not read their rivals? Well, I want to take the repentance thing one step further. I think it's a personal repentance saying, Lord, I'm sorry. I need to be in your word. But I also think that, and listen, Geistler, Geistler used to say this. And you and I had the privilege of traveling with him for a summer or two, right?

Yeah. And, you know, one of the things I loved about Geyser was he emphasized that believers, submit to scripture. And I think that's another missing part is I think we we kind of know. I think even non-believers know that if they engage with God's Holy Word, repentance is required. He's going to reveal things to you about yourself that you're just going to have to deal with, right? And I think that's a problem. I think we live in a culture that I determine what's right for me and all that. And that's not what scripture reveals to us,

that we are deprave. We are sinners. We need a savior. So I think the repentance thing is twofold. One, my personal repentance that I need to be in the scripture more fellowshiping with my father. But I think also as I dig, you know,

and that's a scary thing. And I think we'll talk about this with AI today, is there's a thing in AI that is very prevalent called state of mind. And it's this idea that it's, It's trying to tickle your ears. It's trying to affirm you. You're amazing, Sean. You're amazing, Scott.

And not that I think Sean's amazing. I'm just saying there's many times that I go to the scripture and I don't want to hear that. I really don't want to hear that right now because I wasn't kind to my wife or. Your flesh wants to hear it, but your heart does not want to hear it. We know we need that transformation. 100%. That's what I'm saying. I know.

So I don't remember who it was, but it was a great analogy during a sermon where the person like stood on a Bible and it was offensive. Like, ah, you know, but he says, this is kind of the way we roll. And then he picked the scripture up, put it above his head and said, this is really the posture that we should have with regards to God's word. And it's just stuck in my head forever, right? And I repent of the times that I'm standing going, I'm not budging. on this thing, right? But I say there's many barriers, repentance, obviously. I think another one is I

would say most people that are Christians, they want to be in the word. They want to study the word. They want to understand the word. I think one of the barriers is they don't know the right questions to ask, right? And that's why if you have the opportunity to go to seminary or whatever, that's one of the things they teach you is the difference between isogesis and exegesis, like asking the right text questions like cultural, historical, exegetical. I think a major problem right now is everybody immediately goes into scripture and says, what does this mean for me? And that's part of it, right?

Because that's where repentance comes in. Okay, God, what are you saying to me here? How does it apply to me? Yeah, yeah. How do I repent? My subjective take, yes. Yes, but the difference is, as we may or may know, ex-a-Jesus is God is the mirror, his truth is the mirror.

I said Jesus, I'm the mirror. Like, I'm just trying to see myself in every passage I read. And I think that's abused, but I think that's a cultural thing today, too. I think that's the way that most people look at life, period, is me, me, me, me, me, You know, it's the difference between me, meology or theology. But in, you know, and this is one of the things that excites me about what we're doing is we're trying to provide tools that make that more accessible, right? So if you're in, let's just say Hebrew 7 and you're like Melchazildek and all, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on. You're like, what?

You know, if you're a new believer, you don't know how to navigate that, right? I don't know how to read this. I'm still not sure who Melchizedic is to the record, but keep going. Right, right. Or, you know, genealogies. How many of us just skip that? God, it doesn't mean anything to me. But if you had the right question, you know, recently, Sean, I was in numbers.

Who in there? No one has ever showed up at their men's Bible study when it's time to decide what book we're going to study next. Hey, let's study numbers. No one, right? And I was in numbers one, and there's this massive father of father, you know, all that gene. And I just skipped it. But then all of a sudden, because of the. this amazing tool that I have called Logos, it applied a filter that helped me see things.

What I didn't notice was that the Levites were excluded from the. I never saw that before. Logos is, you guys say, hey, did you know this? And I started digging. And it was like, wow, the thing that I've just skipped every time I hit this in my yearly Bible reading plan, there was some gold in there because I was asking the right questions, right? Love it.

I think that's a barrier. I also think time. You know, I'll hear people say all the time. You know, I don't have enough time. And I don't take that much anymore either because if you have the right tool, the heavy lifting can be done so that you can dig pretty quickly, honestly. But we also, to jump in here, we also make time for what's important. Exactly. That's a fact.

And so we're going to get into the tool that you're talking about. I want people know, there's a few tools I use. Here's some that are free. and here's some that will cost you in different ways. One is I listen to a podcast called The Listeners Commentary. It is some of the best Bible teaching. There's an app for it. There's a podcast for it.

I love it. And I listen to it on doubles speed when I drive and I work out. The person who creates a John is a friend of mine. That's wonderful. The other thing I love to do is I read books in their entirety, Scott. I read dozens of times this summer, the entire gospel of John, the entire gospel of Luke. the entire book of Romans. I love to read books in their entirety. And when I do that, I want a physical Bible in front of me. That's how I want to read it. But then the third tool that I want

to talk about is Logos Bible Software. You first gave this to me in like the, I guess it was, I don't know, 97, 98, whatever. I've been using it ever since. And I'm really careful what I promote on my different channels. And this is one of the few things that I will personally promote because I use it and I believe in it and my family uses it. Tell us a little bit about what it is. Now, people can't see it. So you're going to go on YouTube in a few weeks, probably early September, and we will do a visual demo of this and take questions.

But explain to us as best you can why this resource is so cool and important for people who don't have a ton of time, but want to get into God's word. All right. So correction. I get to correct Sean McDowell today. How wonderful is that? Logos. We just called Logos.

now. Did I call it Logos Bible software? Bible software, yeah. That's like old school. I don't know what I was thinking, man. As soon as you said that, that's the reason why you have gray hair and I have gray hair, right? That's how far back I go. Yeah, we're dating ourselves. Yeah, we're just, it's called Logos. And the reason is because we have apps now, you know, Android iPhone, tablets. Makes sense. We even have a web app. So Logos is the official name of the company and what we do. But yeah, we've been doing this now for, I think we're going on 35 years.

Wow. Amazing story. The founder was at Microsoft in its infancy. So the family's from Jersey, but the reason we're headquartered out here in the Seattle area was, you know, that opportunity. And he was one of the youngest program managers ever at Microsoft at 17 years old, created logos because he thought, man, I think computers are going to really help the church study the Bible, had the meeting with the leadership of Microsoft. and they saw this thing to study the Bible and said, get out of here. So he said, hey, I'm going to do this. And it's just been an amazing journey.

There's been many different versions, if you will, but what's significantly changed in about the last year or so is we have put AI in logos. And then the other thing is we've gone to subscription. So, you know, when I did many, many events with you and your dad over the years, you know, There were many moments where, I don't know if people stood on their chairs when they saw a logos, but there was excitement in the room. For sure. Until they, until they saw the price. And then they, you know, grasped their chest like, oh, I didn't know that was $1,000 or, you know, and it's because you're buying a massive library, right?

And books cost money. But we've gone to subscription now. So for less than what it costs to stream movies, you know, I'm not trying to be convicting, but I'm trying to be convicting. You know, honestly, Sean, we don't need eight ways to stream a movie, right? Just get rid of one of them and you have Logos now. And it's an amazing tool. And I would say why it's so amazing today is because of AI. But we have a different philosophy of how we're going to incorporate Logos AI for Bible study.

Number one is we're not connecting you to the Internet. I think that was the initial reaction. You know, when we announced, hey, we put AI in Lodels. Oh, Sean, that was not a fun week at Logos. You know, a lot of angry phone calls, voicemails about Mark of the Beast and all kinds of stuff. These are not people who had read the Bible four times a week to make those angry calls just for the record. But keep going. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. So we're not connecting you to the internet. We're only wrapping AI around the scripture, commentaries, Bible dictionaries, and such. The other thing is hallucinations where we know this. is a big problem in AI where not only is it hallucinating answers, but another big problem is hallucinating the sources. So it'll confidently, because it always is very confident, give you an answer cited, quote unquote, and then you go to find out that the book doesn't exist, the person doesn't exist, that periodical doesn't exist. So this is a big problem. Logos will always give you the page number. So when we say, hey, this is what the Trinity is, and we cite Bible dictionaries,

you click, the Bible dictionary opens, you can read further. So big difference there. And then theory of mine. I've already talked about that, but we're not trying to figure you out. We're really hoping to help you figure out what the scripture says, what scholarship says. So again, we have a very philosophical difference on the use of AI. But it's amazing. I mean, there's a tool in Logos now called Study Assistant. You and I were talking about it before we started that I had a couple people tell me last week I was in Dallas said, Scott, if the only thing Logos did was that new study assistant tool, it's the best thing I've ever used for Bible study because it's a AI feature where you have a conversation with Logos. So you can ask things about doctrine. You can say,

hey, what's this Greek word in this passage and tell me what it means in my Greek dictionaries and very practical use. Like, you know, I've got a ton of kids, as you know, Sean, and one of my kids asked the other day, hey, why does God allow evil? Hey, that's a great question. I went in a study assistant, but I said, hey, how would I develop a Bible study for my family on this idea? And it brought in Geisler and a little C.S. Lewis. I mean, I call this, Sean, AI with guardrails. And I tell you what, we need guardrails in the church right now. And I'll have people, Sean, say, hey, Scott, you know, all the others aren't as bad as you're trying to say they are if you train them, right?

You can train chatGBT over time to give you the better answers. And I kind of don't like that answer, Sean, because to me it's like the person that says pit bulls make great family pets. I'm like, well, I've read the stats. I don't know if I agree with that because what will they say right after that is you train it, right? And I think people are risking their walk with the Lord and understanding of scripture by rolling the dice with AI that was not designed to study the Bible. I agree.

I just got some. You know, people are always sending me these latest AI and church studies. And I just got this. I'm going to start incorporating it into when I speak. but Christians now, more than any other group in the United States, are trusting AI at a level that's not common even for non-believers, you know, whatever you want to study, right? Law, medical, whatever. They're kind of concerned with, again, how much the church is using AI, but they're not questioning it. It's just whatever was that first answer.

I'm taking it as, well, that's the truth. And again, not understanding about hallucinations and state of mind. That's concerning, right? That Christians are trusting. Oh, and then the other study, part of the study said they trust AI now more than their pastor. I'm like, whoa. Oh, my goodness. That's a red flag too.

So, yeah, it's an amazing tool. And then the other part of Logos I love is. called fact book and that's where I go study and that's where all those lenses get applied to the text where it helps me see, you know, the text exegetically and culturally and historically. Applications there. We're not against that per se, but we want you to do your homework, right? If Paul wrote this letter, well, first of all, who's Paul? Why did he write it? Who is this church, you know, in Ephesus and, you know, all those things that really, really, really help you understand scripture in a new and better light in my opinion. Here's how I use it for the most part

is I love to get up almost every morning. It's kind of my favorite part of the day. If I could get to bed a decent hour, a week up at five, sometimes hour, hour and a half if I can. Sometimes it's like 15 minutes. And I just got done studying Hebrews. So if I had time, I'd read all 13 chapters of Hebrews. Oftentimes I don't. So I read one chapter, three or four times. And then I write my own summary of it. What's the heart of Hebrews chapter 7, like you said, or five or two? I write it myself and then I pull up fact book or I pull up study assistant and it actually lists questions for the time. Hey y'all. I'm Willie Robertson. And I'm Corey Robertson. We partnered with Echo. It's a new platform, not just streaming. Movies and series that are safe for your family. I love a podcast.

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I want to think about it. And that helps me process, do I, understand it. And sometimes if I need more, like you said, I type back in and I get more information from AI. And then I actually take my summary and I throw it into study system and I say, you give me a summary. And then I just compare and contrast. Oh, what did I miss? What should I add to this? What should I take out? It's like I'm kind of having a conversation with it and interacting and teaching myself. That's how I use it. My wife has a Bible study. Not to mention like other research projects I'm doing. That's just like in a daily basis.

But my wife has a Bible study with women probably 20 to 25 years every other week during the school year. And they buy these somewhat expensive books over the year, you know, 15, 20 bucks. And I said, you know, this year, here's an idea for you. We have logos. Just take one chapter of the Bible. And if you plug in a fact book, it'll give you 5, 10, 12 questions. And some are content questions. Some are discussion questions.

Some are application questions. and all you do is read the chapter out loud, talk about it together, what did you see, what you learn, what do you think it really means, and then pull those questions up, discuss them together, and then you have an authority you can go back to, and you've got an hour, hour and a half of deep, rich conversation about any chapter in the Bible. Right there is a remarkable resource. So that is two ways that the McDowell use logos. I wish, Scott, can I tell you how pained I am?

to see some of these new technologies come out and think, if I had this when I did my doctoral research, it would have saved me hundreds of hours. I don't know if that's an exaggeration or not, but dozens and dozens of hours. So from an academic level to a popular level, I use it all the time. Last question, I'll ask you.

What if somebody goes, Sean, I don't have an hour in the morning like you, I'm busy. If somebody's like, I got 15 minutes, and they're like, why shouldn't I just open up and read a chapter of the Bible or do the Bible in a year? what would Logos do in like 15 to 20 minutes daily that would help somebody significantly? Well, I want to say one word as mobile. So I understand busy.

I travel. I got 10 kids. I got 14 grandkids. My life crazy, right? But that's one of the great benefits of Logos is now it's mobile as well. And it synchronizes. So I understand. I know tomorrow I've got so many meetings.

but I would dare say anybody listening, you can find those little five-minute pockets here and there during the day. And having logos on your iPhone, your Android, whatever, is just absolutely amazing. And it synchronizes. So you can start a fact book, start a study assistant where you're digging into, let's say, the ecumenical councils or whatever, right? And then as soon as you get home, it's already on your computer,

ready for you to continue, ask more questions, and so and so forth. So there's a plus and a positive is that Logos is mobile. But yeah, it's just, as you said, commitment. You know, it's interesting you were saying that as you grow in your knowledge and understand, you fall more in love with the scripture. You're like, I'm, and I'm hoping at 90, I'm still excited about studying the Bible. But my favorite phone call this year, Sean, was a few months ago. I get a phone call and I could tell it's an older gentleman on the other.

line and and he said would you be willing to come out to my house you know i've been hearing a lot about this new logos and i i want to study better and and i said excuse me who is this and it was dr bruce walkey and i'm like what really like yeah i was like i was like bruce uh we're we're on a first name basis now um you know i was like you could call call it call it good you know your your old testament theology is like the seminal old testament you know like like, it was amazing that someone in his 90s still wants to study better, still wants to be more efficient, still thinks for the few years the Lord gives him on this earth, he wants to write and teach. And I was so convicted about that because, you know, again, I hope in my 90s,

if Lord willing, I live to my 90s, that I'm still as passionate as Dr. Walkey was to me. I did. To learn more. And anyway, that's super cool. By the way, the mobile is huge. It's amazing how often we just pick out our phones and check Instagram and check other things. I'll do that now and then. But I've actually started pulling out my phone and I have a list of verses that I'm memorizing. I'm like, I'm just spending five minutes meditating on this passage.

Sometimes I'll pull out and I can just study where I left off of how I wasn't able to finish with logos. So that mobile piece is super, super cool. All right, we could talk about this forever, but I'm really careful what ministries I work with and I promote. And Logos is one of them because I've used it for 30 years, have known you about 30 years. And I really want our people to get into it. So one of the things that Logos has offered is a 60-day free trial. It's streaming. And the code they gave me is logos.com forward slash McDowell.

So if you just go, correct me if I'm just go to logos.com and then you can sign up for free trial, drop in there Logos.com forward slash McDowell or would they just type that in and then it'll come out. Walk us through that process where people will find that. Yeah, that's the landing page for your ministries. It's logos.com forward slash McDowell. And there you can pick one of your flavors. There's three options if you are premium pro and max. And there's only a $5 difference between the three.

$5 increment, so 10, 15, 20. And so here's the thing, though, even at that level, you're getting AI wrapped around scripture, wrapped around your study, but you're also getting a library because, again, we're not connecting you to the internet. So if we don't give you a substantial library of commentaries, Bible dictionary, and so, and Sean, I don't think there's a better deal on the planet where, again, for $10 a month, if that's the level you want, you get a $4,000. dollar theological library and AI because AI is extremely expensive to develop.

Oh, in itself it is. I've been at events and I've talked about logos and people thought I dropped a zero off. Like, Noah, what are you talking about? Like, you get thousands of dollars worth of books and AI for nine, is you sure it's not 99 a month? I'm like, no, no, it's really 10 bucks a month. Now, the level I would push or recommend would probably the middle. It's called pro, only because it doubles the size of your library. And so when you go and have a conversation and study assistant or factbook,

you're just getting more access to more commentaries, more Bible dictionaries. That makes sense. And again, $5 for $4,000 more resources. I think that's a great deal. But yeah, try it out, six days for free. And again, if someone's listening and decides to try it out, you and I are going to get together sometime here soon. and do like a full hour and that way you can see all the very you know not all that would be a 10

hour of course but yeah we're going to do a good hour where I'm going to point out the real major features in logos for reading so then people can see it absolutely yeah we'll do that over on YouTube for now go check it out it's logos dot com forward slash McDowell and one of things I checked with before I agreed to partly the guys was like is it easy to can't cancel this if somebody doesn't want it? And the answer is yes. I subscribed to the New York recently. Love the publication. I tried to read stuff all over the place. And I can't figure out how to cancel it. It's driving me nuts. I don't have time for this. You guys are not trying to pull one over on people. That would violate the truth of scripture, ironically enough.

Try it out. It's free. You've got nothing to lose. Take out your phone and put a reminder in 30 or 60 days. Just say, hey, let me check if I want this. And you will, which others do. Do not do. Not. You'll send that out. As a reminder, do you want this or not? Try it. I've used it, like I said, about three decades and plan on using it for a long time.

Scott, thanks for your time. Thanks for your friendship. Thanks for your ministry. This is great. I really hope people will follow up and check it out. Thanks, my friend. Good to see you. Thanks.

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