The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott - Fidelio (with Mike Schur and Sandra Bernhard)

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Ben and Adam are joined today by Mike Schur, who has created or produced many of the best TV shows of the last 20 years, including Parks & Recreation, The Office, The Good Place, and, most recently, the Netflix series A Man on the Inside. They talk about the sticky philosophical questions that influence both Severance and Mike’s work, and the challenges of creating and defining a distinct tone for a show. Plus, Mike reveals the super secret password to enter this podcast (hint: it’s also the password in Eyes Wide Shut). Then, Ben and Adam talk to the great Sandra Bernhard, who plays Nurse Cecily in Severance, to talk about her work in Martin Scorsese’s The King of Comedy and Cecily’s most iconic moments on the show. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Try fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com slash severance. Hey, I'm Ben Stiller. I'm Adam Scott. And this is The Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam, where we are talking all about Severance and the movies and TV shows and influences and people that have been a part of making the show. And I'm excited for this week. Yeah, Mike Schur is going to be on the show. Mike is a friend of mine. He's a brilliant writer. He's created, co-created, written or produced. Chances are, all your favorite shows, Parks and Rec, The Office, The Good Place,

Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Hacks, Master of None, and most recently, A Man on the Inside, which is just excellent, starring Ted Danson on Netflix. Yeah, and he's basically one of the people, I think, that's created this genre of the office, workplace, comedy, the modern version of that, And he's just so smart. And also he's very interested in moral and philosophical questions he's written about them.

And I think it's a real theme in his work. And I think we're gonna get into a little bit of that with him also. Yeah, Mike even wrote a book about it called How to be Perfect, the Correct Answer to Every Moral Question. And then we're gonna have Sandra Bernhardt play Cecily on the show.

The amazing, unique, fearless performer that for me, I've known for a very long time and I was so happy that she was on the show and it's gonna be fun to talk to her. Me too, I mean, one of the great performers and just turns in such a great performance on the show. Yeah. So let's get into the episode.

Ben, how have you been? I've been good. I mean, you know, it's summer, New York. As far as summer movies go, how's it going this summer for you? Let's see, I saw Mission Impossible. Yeah, Tramell. Yeah, that was thrilling.

And it was so exciting to see Tramell. I went to see it. I know, man. I went to see it with my son in White Plains, New York at an IMAX theater. And when Tramell came on the screen, there was an audible gasp. Same. Really?

Yeah, we saw it, my daughter and I saw it in like lower Manhattan and it was a smaller theater, but the whole place like lit up when Tramell appeared on screen. Yeah, it was really cool. And I feel like Tramell, I remember when he went off to do it and he said like, I'm going to do it

for like a week or something. And I feel like he underplayed it because it was like a much more important role than I thought. I know. Yeah. And he was like commanding a submarine and saving Ethan Hunt.

Yeah, and getting laughs and everything. He was great. Yeah, super cool. It was so much fun. But I have to say my favorite summer movie was the rewatch I did two nights ago with my son and wife of Jaws Oh great 50th anniversary like a little nod Yeah, it's always been in my like top five favorite movies. Maybe top three favorite movies. Maybe top two favorite movies I just love it so much, but watching it again after not having watched it for about maybe a year,

I loved it even more. And I just feel it's one of the best movies ever made. And I had a thought about it. Tell me what you think, but there's not really a dud scene in that movie. There's not one scene where you go, oh, I have to get through this scene. I completely agree. Even the little scenes,

like the scene with his son, it's like the main story beats are all done and they just stay with Roy Scheider and his son at the dinner table and just, we could just get to watch their behavior and it just deepens everything in the movie. And it's the movie. It's so good. It's so good. And the mom, Lorraine Gary, with the, you know, with the son went after he's freaked out by the,

you know, when he's in shock and talking about getting him ice cream. These things are like, there's so many little nuances that obviously Spielberg was famous for, but at that point, which is like such an early stage in his career, like in the blocking and the, obviously the scene on the ferry when they're going across with me and the hidden one are there.

Yes. And yeah, where the background is changing because the boat is changing the background. And they just take like one step up into camera at the end of it. And it's just so perfect. And Murray Hamilton, as the mayor. Oh, my God. He was so good in that movie. Good. Yeah. But then after the attack and you see Murray Hamilton and how just tortured he is, you know that guy's life will never be the same. Yeah.

Well, he's the mayor of Shark City. He sure is. So good. Well, we have a really cool guest on the podcast today. Yes, we do. Mike Schur is here and we are so lucky to have him. We should let him in. Yeah, let's talk to Mike.

We should see if Mike knows the secret password and then we'll let him in. Too late, too late, I'm already here. God damn it. Hey Mike, hey man. Hello gentlemen. What would the secret password be for our podcast? It's Fidelio, it's the same one as Eyes Wide Shut.

You're right, you're exactly right, that's what it was. Fidelio. It's the same one as Eyes Wide Shut. You're right. You're exactly right. That's what it was. Fidelio, that's right. Mike, thank you so much. It is my absolute pleasure. Mike and Ben, you guys have met a couple times

over the years? I feel like we've run into each other a couple of times, but we've never really spent any time together. You probably don't remember this, but I met you in like 1998 in New York. I was at SNL and you were doing some late night bit and you asked Adam McKay to help you brainstorm. And McKay brought like me and Rob Karlak

and Dennis McNicholas to some bar. And we like pitched you ideas for what to do on a late night bit. Oh my God, what a dream team of writers. That's incredible, my late night bit. I don't think I contributed anything worthwhile. I had been working there for like one week and I was terrified of this job.

And then suddenly I was pitching jokes to you and was like, this is bad, I'm out of my depth here. And then I was there when you hosted like maybe three years later or something. Yeah, yeah. And you did that, you did the monologue where you were on the roof of 30 Rock, like looking out over New York and being like,

I'm gonna own this town someday. Yeah, and there was like a battle with Lorne. Cause I fought Lorne. Cause I quit the show. And so it was Lorne and I were like mortal enemies. And we had this sort of like superhero battle. I was so ridiculous. It was insane, but it was very fun.

Yeah, but we've never like properly hung out. Yeah, well, I'm a fan. This is our chance. I'm a fan. Thank you, buddy. Yeah, but we've never like properly hung out. Yeah, well, I'm a fan. I'm a fan. Thank you, buddy. Yeah, I've heard that Zoom now qualifies as a proper hangout. So we're in luck. Yeah, legally after this, we will have hung out.

This is a legally binding proper hangout. Well, Mike and I have known each other a long time. It's a good friend of mine. We've worked together a lot. And I really do owe Mike so much because he handed Ben Wyatt over to me 15 years ago. Isn't that crazy? That's incredible.

That's terrible to hear. It was in the spring of 2010 when you hired me. Can I ask Mike what was the hiring process to get Adam on your show? So Adam had auditioned for the show when we were making the pilot, and he will say, I'm sure again right now, that he did a bad job at his audition.

He did not do a bad job at his audition. He did an excellent job. We didn't hire him at the time to play the role that eventually went to Paul Schneider, but then after a season plus of the show, we needed to make some changes, and then after a season plus of the show, we needed to make some changes and we needed a different love interest for Leslie Knope for Amy's character.

And I was like, that guy's great. And I was a huge Party Down fan and I poked around and heard that Party Down might not be coming back. So we had had this idea for Amy's character that we didn't go with for the show, where the backstory was that she had been one of those people who was elected mayor of her town at 18, like in high school, and that had done a terrible job.

Cause I'm obsessed with those stories. Cause you read about like an 18 year old is the mayor of, you know, new, new Bedford, New Hampshire, whatever. And that's the last you ever hear of those stories. And I always imagine that it just doesn't go great when the 18 year old's in charge. So my backstory for Leslie Knope was originally that she had been the mayor at 18

and had just bankrupted the town. And I always thought that was like a fun story for someone. So when we thought about bringing Adam in, I was like, oh, we could just transfer that backstory to him. So we met in my office and I basically said like, this is your job if you want it. Like, this is the character, this would be the situation. to transfer that backstory to him. So we met in my office and I basically said like, this is your job if you want it. Like this is the character, this would be the situation.

You had this terrible thing happen to you and you've spent the rest of your life trying to basically prove that you're not a screw up. And it was sort of based on the book, The Mare of Castor Ridge by Thomas Hardy, which I was also obsessed with, which is a story of a guy who makes one terrible, awful mistake when he's really young.

He's a drunk idiot and he gets into a poker game and he bets his wife and loses her. And when he bets his wife, his wife says like, hey, if you, and he has like a baby too, and the wife is like, if you lose, I'm going with this guy. I'm like, I'm leaving you. And he's like, duh. And then he loses and she's like, goodbye, and she leaves. And so then it jumps ahead 25

years. He's now the mayor of the town, because that was his low point. And he was like, I have to become a better person. So he's sober and he's worked really hard to get where he is. And he's now the mayor and everybody respects him. And then the story of the book is that one day that woman comes back into town and he's like, this is my chance to make amends. So I just love that book and I put the whole thing into one character and then gave it to Adam. And on my first day of work, you gave me a beautiful copy of that book that I still have and still have not read. Well, you know, you lived it.

But it is a prized possession. It sounds a little like Les Mis, a little like Valjean steals a loaf of bread, then he becomes the mayor. Yeah, and it's the juiciest backstory. It was so exciting. I think there's a lot of 19th century stories that are about a person making a terrible mistake

and then trying to make amends. Right. One of the reasons I was excited that we were gonna talk to you is just because obviously you were on the office. Can you tell me exactly how you started working on that show and how that developed for you? So Greg adapted it from Ricky and Steven's British version and made the pilot. And he was sort of the only driving force behind the pilot. And then I joined the writing staff in that first season.

So that first season, which was only six episodes, it was a very small writing staff. It was just me, Mindy Kaling, BJ Novak, Mindy and BJ and I were the only full-time writers. So we were there for those first five episodes. And then I stayed there through season four into five. And then Greg and I did Parks and Rec together while he was still doing that show. Yeah, and it's obviously, it's an incredible show.

And what you do as a showrunner, creator, and the shows you've gone on to create afterwards is such a unique talent. And just to say that, because there are very few people who can write and create and run a show and make it good and keep it going. And you've done that. So I just want to say that's a very special thing,

I think, that you do. Thank you. It's the best job in the world. When it's when it works, there's nothing like it. I mean, you must have this feeling now, you and Dan must have this feeling of like, oh my God, we're making something people care about. I mean, the exciting thing is that people are watching it and are responding to it.

And you know how many things we make that nobody ever really sees. Or they're out there, right? They're out there in the ether and they're available, but they're just not really people going to it. Yeah, I mean, the magic of TV to me has always been that like, if it works, it works in a lasting way where like, you know, people still go back

and watch old movies, obviously, but TV shows slowly unfold over years and years and years. And when a new season is coming up, people get excited and they start talking about it months before it airs. And then they keep talking about it months after it ends. And that's a, you know, that's unique to the art form. There's no other art form that does that, I think, in the same way, especially when the episodes are dropping once a week, which is so much better than the binge model in my opinion. Because it's like you create a conversation that happens all over the world weeks and weeks and weeks at a time.

Like it's just a there's nothing like it. And I feel like you have to cherish and treasure those moments when you're involved with something like that, because they're just very rare. Yeah, I'm so grateful that that's how Apple puts the show out is on a weekly basis rather than a binge model It would have just completely changed how the show sort of absorbed itself in the in the culture over time Yeah, well also with your show specifically. There's a lot to discuss You know, it's not like it's not friends It's which not to say anything bad about friends

But like the episodes are meditations and you just, you can't meditate six hours in one night. You got to meditate for an hour and then come down from the experience and chew on it and wrestle with it and understand what it means and where it's going. And yeah, it would be, if you could watch all of Severance on one plane ride from LA to New York, I don't think it would have the same impact that it does.

No, and that would be a really long and really arduous plane ride to absorb all of that information in one sitting. But what I loved about the script that Dan wrote when I first read it was that it reminded me of shows like The Office and of Parks and Rec. And I realized he was picking up on this which I'm sure you're aware of because you are one of the people who

created this genre the modern workplace comedy I guess it goes back in television but did you feel that when you were working on The Office and then going into Parks and Rec where you were doing the same format which was sort of the pseudo documentary right but this genre even though ours obviously wasn't a documentary, Severance isn't, but there's a certain inter sort of the pseudo documentary, right? But this genre, even though ours obviously wasn't a documentary, Severance isn't, but there's a certain interplay of the characters that I think is very unique to the shows that you have created, those shows in particular. Do you feel like that's something that didn't exist before

and that kind of has changed television or comedy? Because I feel like it did. That's the genius of Ricky and Stephen's original idea to me, is it's just called the office, which makes it the most widely accessible concept, right? It's a little bit like friends. It's like, this is, you don't have to, there's no barrier of entry at all.

Everyone in the world has worked in an office at some point. But the second thing is the mockumentary aspect, which at the time was novel, now is obviously not, gets you this second layer of storytelling, which is people will act differently when they know the cameras are on them and when they don't know the cameras are on them. So the office, when Greg adapted the office,

he had a million rules and the rules were hard and fast. You could not break them. When we would set up shots at the office, Randall Einhorn, who is the DP, a director would say, okay, they're going to be talking here at the desk and then we're going to jump over there and we're going to see this guy walk in from the break room or whatever. And Randall Einhorn would go, all right, well, give me a second. Let me run it. And he would put a camera on his shoulder.

He would set up where he needed to set up for the first thing, and then he would literally run. They would rehearse the scene, he would run to the other position that he had to get into in order to get the shot that they wanted. And if he couldn't get there in time, they wouldn't do it. Because it would be like, look, we're saying this is a documentary,

and there's only two camera operators in this documentary. And if we can't actually physically get to the point where that shot would have come from, we can't do the shot. And at one point we were in a real office building and at one point the only way to get where he needed to get was to run out of the set down the stairs out into the parking lot, go across the parking lot and run up another flight of stairs and get into another position. And so he did it. He was like, all right, let's try it. And he ran down with a, you know,

giant camera on his shoulder, ran to the other position and then got up. And he was like, yeah, okay, we can do this. So it seemed at the time like overkill, frankly. It seemed like, come on, like this is TV. We can, there's a little leeway here or whatever. But Greg was just like, no, the reality of the show will matter, people will care about it

and it will mean something if they feel like this is real. And he just didn't want there to ever be anything that felt fake or TV-ish. So that dedication to those rules, which for us put a burden on the production and felt like sometimes on the writers room, we'd be like, really? It'll be funny.

Can't we just get that shot? His dedication to those rules, his almost monk-like dedication to that theory is what I think really made that show special. When we went to Parks and Rec, we were like, this is gonna be a little looser. We're not gonna stick to that. We're gonna loosen up the reins a little bit

and allow ourselves the chance to do sort of more filmic things. But those rules were in my head. And then there were times where we would pitch certain shots and I would just be like, that's ridiculous. Like, come on, we gotta have some rules here. But also Parks was a different tone as well. It was a shift. It was a different tone.

That's right. But that's such a great example of something I never even thought of watching that show, that he would be thinking that way, but it lends, it makes you feel like that it's a real thing. And you're not thinking it's subconscious and allows for the humor, it hits more because it feels more real and it's more identifiable.

And I think you do have to make rules like that on anything that you're making, where you have to say, this is for our reality, this is what we're gonna do. If you want it to be heightened, you want it to be real, whatever it is. But that's such a subtle thing that I would never have thought of.

By the way, I just have to say the original office, the British office is so good. At the time they were talking about doing an American office, people were approached is so good. At the time they were talking about doing an American office, people were approached and I did have a meeting with them about producing the American office. Did you?

Yeah, with Ben Silverman. And I said, you know what, there's really, there's no way you can do this show because the British show is just so good and anything you do would just be sort of like a pale imitation. Yeah. I was so wrong.

I was so wrong. I was so wrong. Well, you were also though, you were in the majority opinion. I mean, almost everyone. I left SNL, I had been in SNL for six and a half years and I left to take that job and all my friends at the time and they bring this up constantly. It's like when you left, we were like, you moron.

What are you doing? It was absolutely posed to be a disaster because it's such a pure piece of art, that British show. It's so highly concentrated. It's such a character study. And it's also so dour in a way that British humor is often dour. And I think everyone thought it was a bad idea,

except thankfully for Greg Daniels, who understood it at its molecular level. So coming from sketch, coming directly from SNL, this must have been a complete left turn for you. And so do you feel like as far as taking that turn, you, Greg was really the person who, you know, kind of taught you how to attack this particular format. Oh, completely and totally.

I mean, it's not an exaggeration to say that he taught me how to write, taught everything I know I learned from him from that show. And that goes for character relationships, for story breaking, for tone, which is the hardest thing to capture, which is the hardest thing to capture, which is a thing I think, I think the, the, of all of the things I love about Severance, I think you have essentially invented a new tone.

Like, I don't know that I've ever, tone is impossible to describe. It's impossible to relate. Like when you meet with writers at the beginning of a show, it's really hard. I mean, look, if it's, if the tone is like naked gun, you can describe what that is, right? But if the tone is specific to whatever project you're working on, it's really hard to communicate to executives

or to writers or to actors what a tone is. And it's like, it is very much like that thing of Michelangelo carving the David. And someone asked him, I would carve the David and he said, it was easy. I just cut away everything thatelo carving the David and someone asked him, I would carve the David and he said, it was easy. I just cut away everything that wasn't the David. And I think about that all the time with tone, because it's like, you just, to me, you, you find your tone by removing things or eliminating things that are not the tone you want until

you have the tone you want. And I think those lessons of creation, TV creation, all came from Greg, but they make me also appreciate it when someone else comes up with something. And when you see someone who's so in control of what they're doing, that they, I don't know that I could describe the tone of Severance, but I know it when I see it. And it's the same thing with any show that's truly special,

like has its own unique sort of fingerprint. And that's what I like about it. I totally agree that it's like you know it when it isn't it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Even now, like the tone of Severance is really something Ben spearheaded when we started shooting the show.

And you know, it was never really like articulating what it is, it was just us all finding it and Ben kind of shepherding us along until we found it. And even now talking about future episodes or future ideas, it's still not something any of us really articulate. I don't know if you can articulate any tone, but like you said, Ben, it's a sort of like, you don't know exactly how to describe the tone, but all you know is when it's there and when it's not, and you'll know it when you see it,

or you'll know it when you hear it. It's just this sort of indescribable slippery thing. Yeah, it's also, I think like this amalgam, you know, of the writing and the style, like you're talking about with what Greg did and the actors, you know, if you've cast it in the way that you want, I always felt like the tone wasn't ever gonna be really defined until we started actually shooting scenes.

And I always go back to that one scene out of A View and John in, I think it's episode three of the first season where, you know, he talks about you going to the perpetuity wing and John, as Irving is so adamant and so incredibly committed to his religion really, that to me was like, oh wow, this is the tone of the show. It's like super serious,

but it's also really like ridiculous. Yeah, but he also helped me define my character because I needed to be a company man to a certain degree. But then it was like, oh right, but I'm not at Irving levels. You're not at his level. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was really informative

on like several different levels. I think to me as a viewer, it was the moment that Tramell came on screen for the first time. There was something about the tone of his voice and his mustache and just everything he says is so sinister, but also gentle. And I don't know why, but for me,

every time Tramell shows up, I get like a goosebumpy feeling on my arms and I feel like, yes, this is the exact center of the tone of the show. It's so true. Every time I shoot a scene with Tramell after cut, it's just like, Jesus Christ, man. Holy shit.

That's the fun of it, right? It's like, once you, even if you can't describe it, even to yourself, you find an actor, you write a line, you set up a certain shot and you're just like, yes. Yeah. Yes, this is what it is. And I don't know what it is, but I know that this is what it is.

Okay. It's time for us to take a break. We'll be right back after this with more from Mike Schur. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. So employees on the separate floor of Lumen industry know their work is mysterious and important. The Farmers Dog, on the other hand, isn't mysterious at all, which is good because what you feed your dog shouldn't be a mystery. The Farmers Dog makes 100% mysterious free fresh food for dogs.

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This is David Spade. Dana Carvey. Look it, I know we never actually left, but I'll just say it. We are back with another season of Fly on the Wall. Every episode, including ones with guests, will now be on video. Every Thursday you'll hear us,

and see us chatting with big-name celebrities. And every Monday you're stuck with just me and Dana. We react to news, what's trending, viral clips. Follow and listen to Fly on the Wall everywhere you get your podcasts. At Lumen Industries, collaboration is limited. Information is siloed, workflows are mysterious, and departments rarely interact. The macro data refinement team, like many others, operates in isolation, tracking cryptic information without clear context. Now, imagine what would happen if they introduced a new tool like Notion. Notion brings structure to the chaos without the need for white walls that go on forever, or severed

mines. With shared workspaces, customizable databases, and AI-assisted search, teams like Mark's could track their quota progress, manage project documentation, and even gain insight into the elusive work of other departments, all in one organized platform. Need to organize data into tables, boards, or timelines? Easy. Coordinate across departments without unauthorized hallway wandering? Completely possible.

In a world where memory ends at the elevator, Notion helps keep everything connected. Notion. Connecting what's been severed. Explore more at Notion.com slash severance. So you're like obviously very interested in these sort of like philosophical questions about life and morality and in your shows that you've been working on lately, I feel like that's an area of gone. You wrote a book about it. You went to Harvard.

I wonder what that was like for somebody who really basically had like an 1100 SAT score. But anyway, that's a separate question. I didn't even have an SAT score. But like the good place at ask questions about, what it means to be a good person. Severance is sort of the first line is who are you? There's questions that you're drawn to as you go through life.

Have you always been interested in that? And how does that work into, you know, what you're doing creatively? It's honestly a sort of second half of my life thing. I was not super interested in philosophy when I was in college. I took like two philosophy classes and thought they were fun,

but it really is something that started around the time I got married and had kids. And I now think about almost nothing else. It's a pretty constant drum beat for me. And certainly creatively, it's always in my mind now, but it was not a, I've been interested in this from day one thing. It's really like as an adult. And it happened, my wife was in this very minor car accident, like fender bender. And the guy that she bumped into, they got out and looked at the bumpers and there was no damage and they exchanged information.

And then he sent us a bill for like 850 bucks. I was like, I gotta replace the whole fender. And I got really upset. I was just like, this is why car insurance rates are so high and even a cop had looked it over. A cop was nearby accidentally and looked it over. I was like, I don't see anything here. And so I went and I looked at the bumper

and there was a really tiny crease in the bumper. And I was like, I think this is ridiculous. And I'll tell you what, Hurricane Katrina had just happened. And I was like, I'll donate 850 bucks to the Red Cross if you just forget about this. And the guy was like, I'll think it over. And I was so convinced that I was right, that I was like, I started railing about it.

I was at the office at the time. I told the story and then other people were like, I'll chip in 100 bucks, I'll chip in 50 bucks or whatever. And suddenly I had like $3,000 pledged to the Red Cross if this guy wouldn't fix his bumper. And then I like wrote a blog about it. I started soliciting donations from everyone. And we raised, I raised like 30 grand in like two days

from people who were like, this guy's an asshole, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was getting media requests. Like it was insane. I was gonna go on like good morning America and talk about it. And then I came home like on day two of this and suddenly I had this like pit in my stomach

and was like, this is wrong and I don't know why. Like I don't know, I don't, I can't articulate why this is wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is wrong. And I like pan, I had a panic attack and I started, I literally remember Googling like, why is this bad? Or like, what is ethics or whatever. And that's what sent me eventually on this last 20 years of my life journey to figure out like,

why we make decisions, what's good or bad about them, how we can be better, all that stuff. It came from this very innocent, silly little moment. And ever since then, that was 2005. And so for 20 years, it's been pretty much all I've been thinking about. And obviously in the shows I write, it comes out there too. And so why was that wrong?

Can you articulate that? Cause to me, it is something that's hard to articulate, but there is something that feels, that I can see why it felt a little creepy. Different philosophers would tell you different reasons why it's wrong, but they all would say it's wrong, which is what, so I remember thinking like, if every philosopher in history is on one side

and you're on the other side, like you fucked up pretty badly. So the simplest way to put it is like, if we allow as human beings for the intrusion of unrelated calamities into our very basic interactions with each other, intrusion of unrelated calamities into our very basic interactions with each other. If that's allowable, then nothing would ever get done. Like if you borrowed $5 from me,

and I came to you and said like, hey, can I have that $5 back? And your response was, how can you want $5 back when people are dying in the South Sudan? Like if you could just do that at any opportunity, like humans like exist in a world where we have to relate to each other and we have to work out problems with each other.

And if we're allowed to draw in completely unrelated disasters into every interaction and transaction and bargain and deal that we have with each other, we'll come to a complete halt. That's the simplest way to put it is like, I was just using this thing that had nothing to do with what had happened in order to make this guy feel guilty about something that had happened to him

that was unrelated. So that's the simplest way to put it. And I feel like that realization is what made me crumble and be like, yeah, I'm not being fair to this guy. That's an interesting thing though, because that inner, that feeling, that gut feeling that you had, and thinking about the shows that you've made

and on Severance, what we're trying to get at sometimes, I think, is you can be cut off from part of your self, your identity, and the feeling of going through life. And even for Mark in the show, he's severed from the whole part of his life, but I always feel like the interesting parts of that to explore are the things that are there no matter what, that we feel, that we might cut off from or we might say, no, no, no, no, you know, intellectually, I don't, this is what I think, but yet something inside is gnawing at you. And that's always, that's a very real thing.

Well, your show is asking two very classic philosophical questions. The first one is about like, what is the self? Like, who are you, right? And there was a school of thought for a long time that the answer to like, what is the self is memory. Like the thing that makes you you is that you have these memories of your whole life that line up and that you can put in order

and you have, it's a holistic identity, right? It's just your memories. That has fallen out of favor in part because people started, and this always happens in philosophy, people started asking questions of like, what if you're, what if you have amnesia? You're still you, but what the hell? Or you have Alzheimer's and you start to lose those memories. Like are you, you're still who you are, but you just don't have those memories. So it can't be only based, but you just don't have those memories. So it can't be only based on memory. But it was the first thing I thought of

when I realized what the premise of the show was. And it's fascinating because you're basically saying, I still am myself, but I literally have no memory of who I am, which is why in the last season, it starts to, the split personalities of the characters, you realize that the severed versions, the innies, are like, hey, I now have memories. I'm not, I now have a self that is different

from the self that you're talking about. When you're arguing with yourself on the balcony, making the videos and going back and forth, that's two different people. It's not the same person with a choice to make. It's just two different people who were fundamentally opposed. And I got really excited when you were doing that

because I was like, oh yes, this is it. This is the thing that the show has been building to. Is that especially once Mark and Heli sleep together, you're like, well now it's not just memories. Now I have important bonds and relationships with people that I don't wanna give up. Life-def defining feelings. Yeah, like love and friendship.

They always had friendship. That was one thing they always had. But then suddenly he has like, he's traveled with her, right, even if it's just within the building and they've fallen in love and they've had sex. And it's like, this is now a complete person. And so that's like one of the best developments of the second season to me is like that getting

into that feeling of like, you can't blame me for not wanting to leave because me leaving is, you know, a year ago, if I had left and died, it wouldn't have meant that much, but now it does. And once it starts to mean something that you die, then you don't wanna die. And once it starts to mean something that you die, then you don't want to die. And it's such a wonderful development. I thought it was like the brick by brick development

of their actual lives as being three dimensional and interesting and sort of thick and sturdy makes the whole philosophy of the show like much more juicy. The other thing is that I really love is some moral philosophy has to do with the question of just, is it moral to have children? Right. And because we don't ask to be born, we're brought into a world that we did not ask to be brought

into, and then we are confronted in the course of our lives with a lot of pretty intense stuff, especially right now, right? If you have a kid right now, you're bringing that kid into the world where the planet is overheating and dying, and there's war and strife and a lot of political stuff that we don't need to get into on this podcast.

And no one gets to weigh in. And there's a woman, I think who's still at UCLA, who was investigating this and came to the conclusion that because we are confronted with so many moral dilemmas when we're born, it's not morally okay to have children. And her conclusion is that we should stop having children and that humanity should just die off

because it's just not fair. But in your show, they are making the decision to be born really. Like everyone has to make the decision themselves to start a new life. And so that's a fascinating question. Like, and they don't truly know what they're getting into, but they are actually making the decision.

They know what they're doing, which is what I think leads to the most character drama with, you know, with Mark and Helly and Irving and people like that, because they went into it eyes wide open. And then they, but they still brought something into the world that they couldn't anticipate. It's just a fascinating question.

There's also the idea that Audi Mark might start to get envious of any Mark in a way. Yeah. When the way you put it, Mike, it's like, you know, that he's creating a person who has none of that baggage, and that wouldn't we all love to have that? That you can't be him, and that you can't have what he has.

I think it must be kind of torturous for him to not be able to slalom back and forth. I think he's probably extremely jealous of the other version of himself, and that it must be in fact, perhaps more painful to know that he succeeded in theory, but doesn't actually get to experience the part of him that is happy and doesn't have the pain that he has.

It's just, I mean, you know what's funny is I, this is another thing I thought about a lot. I don't know to what degree you thought about this, but to me, every great TV show in history, nearly, especially, I really have a great drama is at some level of Trojan horse where, you know, it's hard to get people to watch TV shows. And at the beginning of every show, there's some kind of way that we're presenting the show to the public to try to

get you interested. And nearly every great show is a little bit of a Trojan horse in that it's got a hook to get audiences to watch. But that's not really what it's about. The classic example is The Sopranos, which if you go back and watch the first season, there's literally, I remember a poster of Gandolfini and it says like, if one family doesn't kill him, the other one will.

And it was like, he's a mobster, but he's in therapy. It was a very, it was very wry and kind of like, can you believe this? This guy's in therapy, he's a mobster. And of course, like that's not what that show was at all. But if they had said, if the marketing campaign had been like, this is a, like a searing portrait of a man on the razor thin line between like morality and immorality.

And it's an existential like examination of the concept of the human soul and whether it's fundamentally good or bad. No one's watching that show, right? People are watching the show about the monster in therapy, but it's a hook and it brings you in. And I feel like when your show came out, it was like, it's about work-life balance.

That was the way it was presented. And I remember like in the third episode being like, this isn't about work-life balance. Like that is not the point of the show, but it made, but work-life balance is a thing that everyone understands. And it helped people, I think, to like, they just lowered, they pulled the velvet rope down

with that campaign and allowed us to step over it and get inside the tent. And you need people to start watching the show. And then once they watch it, you can do what you really wanna do. But I just, I always think about, sometimes my wife and I will watch the show. And at the end of whatever, like,

incredibly like mind blowing like insane internal examination of the nature of the human soul has unfolded in front of us, my wife will turn to me and go like, it's about work life balance. That's all it is. But isn't that what you're doing constantly, Mike, when you're making your shows?

It's like, cause you have all, like you said, this is what you're constantly thinking about. And yet you're making your shows? It's like, because you have all, like you said, this is what you're constantly thinking about, and yet you're making these shows that, on the outside, of course, are just like really funny. And to be really funny and to be exploring those questions is really challenging. Yeah, that's certainly what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I mean, like The Good Place is the perfect example

because when I pitched the show to NBC, I was like, look, this is for better or worse, this show is about moral philosophy and it's not like on the fringes, it's like baked into the middle of the show. And I said to them, I promise, I will not make it feel like homework. Like it's no one's gonna feel like they're being lectured to

or that they're in class. And then like literally at the beginning of the third episode, Will Harper's character, Chidi, who is the professor, is standing in front of a blackboard and it says like philosophy 101 on it. And I was like, oh boy. But it is absolutely wrapping those ideas in like a candy coated shell of comedy and of silliness

and brightly colored sets. And I think, you know, that's not, that's okay. Like, it's not, no one's, it's not like you're, you're not fooling anyone. You're simply taking your ideas and putting them into a package that seems interesting and palatable to people. And after that, hopefully when they open the box

and they see what's really inside, they'll be interested enough that they keep watching. But I just think that's the nature of certainly TV and generally entertainment as a whole is to make you whatever idea you really want to say. You got to make it interesting to people and get them to tune in. I remember towards the end of Parks, it may even be the finale where Leslie Knope is talking about teams. There's one where she really explicitly is like, I really like teams.

And I remember maybe it was at the table read of that, just seeing it all sort of come together and be like, oh, this whole thing, it's been about teamwork. It's been about linking arms and jumping off the cliff together. That is the show. Yeah. So everything we're talking about is really touched upon

in a lot of our hotline questions that we have coming up. People have been calling in, leaving us questions. Would you like to hang out and answer a couple of them with us? Of course I would. Fantastic. Oh, very cool. All right.

Yeah, let's bring up the first one. Hey, this is Chuck. And I was raised in a fundamentalist church that's basically a cult. And I, in watching Severance, I felt so much resonance with the innies and especially Irving being a true believer at one point, like he was in their process of waking up to the reality of Lumen and starting to see through the lies

and realize the harm this institution was causing. When Irving gets to the point where he's like, let's burn this place to the ground, that was such a cathartic line, just coming from my own experience. And I was wondering how much of that journey was intentionally paralleling this sort of religious deconstruction process,

or if that's just my reading of it. Either way, fantastic show, thanks so much. Interesting, yeah. Well, I wasn't raised with religion, but that's so interesting to hear from people like Chuck. And I'm so glad this is meaningful for him. I think if we had Dan here, he would probably say something like, you know,

there was no particular religion or religious theory in mind when he wrote it, but you know, finding some meaning in it that's personal to you is, is great. What do you think, Ben? I mean, that was always kind of part of the idea of what the season was gonna be was, these people are in this world where they're so sheltered

from anything other than what they're told or taught. I think that's always been part of it. And by the way, it just, I also have to say, like this has not much to do with the question, but what I was always amazed with in the office and in Parks and Rec too, but even more specifically in the office was that it always felt like it's such a contained environment

that they're in, that office, and these characters are sort of like, everything happens in that place. It's almost like there's really hardly any other outside world. And I think in a way, that was a similar thing we had in Severance, is like we had this room where there's really hardly any other outside world. And I think in a way that was a similar thing we had in Severance is like we had this room where there's this cubicle. And I thought about that a lot. It's like we're going to be in here a lot, but these characters are going to have these

feelings and questions and all of those things. And I think the kind of claustrophobic nature of those spaces really help to kind of give you the parameters as someone who's making the show, but also like it brings out a lot in terms of like having these questions come to the surface. The thing that I think Severance does is, and this goes to the question that was just asked, was like there is a feeling of like when these rooms and hallways

are the entire world of the characters, the biggest deal in the world is let's go to this wing or whatever, right? It's like that's the same thing for those characters as let's go to Paris for the week. And it really confines them and their world is so small that it highly concentrates their thoughts and feelings. And what that then allows you to do,

and this is a tribute to Dan who I've never met, but I'm a fan of, is when you get a character like Irving, who is brick by brick, slowly taking down the wall of his belief, tiny gestures become enormously powerful. So there's that moment where he opens the book and I think he's chewing gum or he's eating food and he sticks it in the book. The egg, he puts the egg in there think he's chewing gum or he's eating food and he sticks it in the book.

The egg, he puts the egg in there. That's right, yeah. And you have seen him be so rigid with protocol of what pictures are allowed on the desk and what does the book say about this and everything else, that that act of rebellion, which is minuscule, you understand as a viewer, for him, that's, he's just threw a Molotov cocktail through a window.

Like, and that is such a satisfying thing from a writing standpoint to watch. If you're really specific with the location and the rules and the characters and everything else, tiny moments like that can have enormous impact. So I don't know, obviously, to what degree this was planned on his part. I would imagine a lot of it was,

because I don't think you can, that sort of character development and that concentration of a person's life, you can't do that on the fly. Like, that's not an improvisational writing technique. That's a very carefully planned and executed thing that he's doing, and it's wonderful. Yeah, I agree.

Should we do one more question? Yeah. Hello, Ben and Adam. My name is Ben Caprero and I'm calling from Chicago. I'm a big Severance fan. And really I have a question for you, Adam. I'm just wondering, one, will there be a crossover episode between Severance and Parks and Rec?

And regardless of that question, how do you think Leslie Knope and Ben Wyatt and the others from Parks and Rec would fare if they had become severed and that became a severed workplace? It's really fun to imagine and think about. Love the show, praise Keir. Thank you. What do you think Mike? Will there be a crossover episode between Severance and Parks and Rec? This seems like the right moment to announce it. Yes, there will be. It's already been shot, produced, color corrected,

and it is ready. I don't know. I mean, part of the brutality of the process of severance is that the people who are severed are new people, right? Like they don't have any connection at all to themselves. So the temptation would be to say like, Ron Swanson will still be Ron Swanson, but the truth is, I don't think that's true.

I think that the, I mean, it would be, I mean, you can do this with any show obviously, is imagine the severed versions of them, but all you're doing is imagining wiping the slate clean and starting over. And you have to resist, I think, with the premise that Dan created, you have to resist the temptation to say like,

Leslie and Hope would always be Leslie and Hope. I think that's the whole point of severance is that that's not true. They would all start over and they would all be new people. I mean, the real question I think that's the whole point of Severance is that that's not true. They would all start over and they would all be new people. I mean, the real question I think is, does the thing that they are lacking in their Audi lives in any way translate to what they would be doing in their any lives?

And I think you would just have to say no. The answer is no. Leslie wouldn't have any Leslie characteristics and neither would Ron and neither would anybody because in order for the premise of the show to hold up your show, you have to say that you're starting from scratch every time you do it. Yeah, except I might say though that they might have

aspects of them that are just them anyway, you know? That would be without their life experience or anything like that. I also, I love crossover episodes. And you do? I do, cause I just think it could be fun. I mean, it's, you don't? Are you against them?

No, I'm not against them at all. We did one on Brooklyn Nine-Nine. My wife was running for new girl, and we did a Brooklyn Nine-Nine new girl crossover, and it was a huge pain in the butt. And everyone was like, how the logistics were insane, and who's directing it, and how does this work? And they're in our world, and we're in their world.

And at the end of the day, when I watch it now, it's like, this is really fun. It's fun, because I like those characters and I like these characters. Yeah, it was like Zoe and Jake Johnson and a couple other people I think went to New York and they like, Jake Peralta, Sandberg's character had to like commandeer a vehicle

and it was being driven by Zoe Deschanel and she had to come to the precinct and whatever and it was like it's very silly but also I'm with you on this I'm realizing now Ben I'm they're fun they're just fun it's like two worlds that we like put them together I mean one of my favorite moments on the office is when Ricky Gervais comes out of the elevator in that moment I mean that's just it's I could watch that over and over again. So great. Was it on the Brooklyn episode or on a new girl episode or both?

So it was on both. Like they, it was, we were in their world a little bit in their episode and they were in our world a little bit in our episode. It sounds like a pain in the ass. It was a pain in the ass, but Liz Murrayweather and Dave Finkel and Brett Baer who were running that show,

we just had a million phone calls about it and we worked it out and it's like totally fun. I think for fans of the show, it feels like this weird, you got your peanut butter and my chocolate, you got your chocolate and my peanut butter kind of a situation, you know? Yeah, ER and Friends had that crossover back in like 1995.

That was fun. Oh wow. But they used to do it all the time on like Charlie's Angels and Love Boat and stuff like that. Yeah. It does hearken back to an old era of TV from when we were kids. And I did not ever think about this,

but Ben has made me realize I also love crossover episodes. All right. That's what I got out of this experience. If nothing else. Well, Mike, thanks for joining us, man. This was so much fun. It's great to talk to you. It is my pleasure.

Congratulations on a truly wonderful and special show. I will be watching every week. Thanks, man. And same to you on all the stuff you do. So good. Thanks, guys. Talk to you soon. All right, bye, Mike.

All right, let's take a quick break. And when we come back, Ben and I will be talking with the great Sandra Bernard, who plays Cecily on Severance. Are you planning your next trip? Pack the ultimate traveling companion, a travel insurance plan from Travel Guard. From lost luggage to unexpected detours, Travel Guard has your back. 24-7 support means you're not on your own for those unexpected travel disruptions. Head over to travelguard.com, customize your plan, and hit the road with more confidence.

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Good, how are you guys? Hi. Good. I love that you're in your closet. Yes. That's so funny. It's the most soundproof place in the house as it turns out. Yeah, because everything's absorbing the sound all your clothes. But later when you put them on, they'll start whispering. That's right. They absorb all the information. It's very severance

of them. Well, thanks for doing this, Sandra. Oh, I mean, thank you. First of all, we've known each other for a very long time. Well, like I told you recently, I mean, I saw your parents in Vegas opening for Diane Carroll. Wow. I think it was the Sands. Yeah. And I think it was 1968 or 69,

and you said you were probably three or four years old and were there. Yes. Probably up in your room, unless you were down at the craps table, which is- That wasn't allowed to. Completely within reason, that Ben Stiller would already be like rolling lucky seven.

Woo! And Sandra, what were you doing there at that time when you saw Ben's- Well, I was heartbroken because we were supposed to be seeing Barbara Streisand in a makeup show that she was supposed to have done in 64 or 5. But my parents in their inimitable style didn't manage to reserve seats.

So we ended up seeing a more of a lounge show with, of course, a fabulous Diane Carroll and Stiller and Mara opening. And it's where I should have been, right there in the lounge with my parents, you know with my dream of entering the entertainment world. I was like, I was right at home. I was probably wearing some sort of a beaded gown or something at 13 knowing me and just loving every minute of it. And when did you guys first meet Ben and Sandra? I feel like we met when my parents took us to see you perform somewhere. I mean, I wanna say, like, were you,

did you do the improv back in the day? Yeah, I did. Yeah, I feel like we, hanging out at the improv, which was the comedy club on, what was that, on 44th Street? Yeah. But yeah, I feel like we go back that far, and then you were just so funny

doing the most unique standup slash music combination thing, personality thing, nobody ever has done what you do, I think, since or before. I could ask you so many questions about how you developed your on-stage persona. I'm just curious, like, where that came from. Well, I can tell you in a nutshell that growing up, being exposed to people like your parents,

like all the great entertainers of that time, you know, from Barbra Streisand and Carol Burnett and Carol Channing and even people like Tina Turner, you know, people who just cut their teeth in situations where they had to like push through. I mean, they had to do it all. They had to sing, they had to tell jokes, they had to dance. They told stories. They were like, you know, they were immersed in everything that was entertainment. And that's what I grew up on. And so when it came time for me to put my shows together, it was like it was in my DNA. But of course it was postmodern because, you know, I came through the other side of feminism and, you know, and all of the struggles of, you know, the Vietnam era and civil rights. So I was like kind of a culmination

of all of those experiences, but I still wanted to like do it all in my way. And that's sort of, that was the jumping off place for me. That's amazing. Yeah, Without You I'm Nothing is just incredible. The movie. Thank you. And people should. Without you I'm nothing is just incredible. The movie. Thank you, thank you. And people should check it out if they haven't seen it.

Well, it was great because it was on TCM the other night. Oh great, so good. Part of their queer cinema package to top off Gay Pride Month, but I felt like it went far beyond that. I mean, I've never super identified with one thing about who I am. I mean, above all, my I've never super identified with one thing about who I am. I mean, above all, I guess I'm a woman. And then I guess the gay thing comes in. But I've wanted to

blow it wide open. And I've never like said, Oh, I'm only doing this for this audience. I'm doing it for everybody who's open to something that's unique. And, you know, really an amalgam of all the great things I grew up with and that sort of sums it up. Yeah, I think also there's always a fearlessness about your work and just being willing to just say what you think that's funny and kind of shocking and hilarious and smart and weird and great. And I don't know, it's like just you have such a unique persona.

And then the world kind of discovered it with King of Comedy, would you say, in terms of that was probably like a big breakthrough where you played the crazed fan who kidnaps Jerry Lewis with Robert De Niro. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I think Masha, who was the character, it was so close to who I was at that time because I was willing to do anything to get the attention I wanted. And so it was Masha.

Obviously Masha was much more unhinged than I was. But it's funny, there's like a fine line between like a person who's actually unhinged and a person who's ambitious and trying to get what you want, right? In show business. Exactly, absolutely. You know, and just like I was running around like a crazy person. Anybody I got to meet, it was like, I was just like voracious. I can't believe that I'm meeting you. This is insane. It's so fun. It's so glamorous.

You know, it was like that was my dream to meet all these people. I don't, and I don't even think as a child, I understood what the impetus was. It was just like the desire and the drive to be around really talented people is what was so important to me. I think even more than being successful in a certain way. And then you find yourself there with Jerry Lewis, Robert De Niro and Martin Scorsese.

What was it like working with Jerry Lewis on those crazy intense scenes? Well, he was like, you know, the biggest misogynist on the face of the planet. I mean, he was very upfront about that. And he was highly insulting and very, very mean to me. He said I had fish lips in the scene where he hits me and I'm supposed to just fall over. He wanted to hit me and have me fall into the glass Parsons table lit with a hundred candles. He wanted me, and I was in high heels and bra and panties. I was like, I can't do that. That's not what I do. I'm not a stunt person, you know? And eventually Marty stepped in and said, no,

we'll just put you up against the wall and help fake hit you and you'll just slide down the wall. But for a while there, I was like, I mean, I hope I don't fucking end up like, with a cracked skull or a broken back. So it sounds like the whole movie, there was actually a lot of real sort of like energy going on where it was like crossing the line sometimes. Absolutely, yeah.

And he was very into lecturing. Like, he would pontificate about how to direct. So he'd come in and like, you know, with his notepad and like give us ideas. Wow. Well, all of that kind of behind the scenes stuff kind of resulted in a really combustible relationship. And those scenes are unlike anything else.

It's really true. I mean, I think he was stunned, you know, that I was improvising. I mean, I think he was stunned, you know, that I was improvising and singing, you know, the song to him and he was all, he was visibly miserable, you know, it was incredible. I mean, it was just like, oh, okay, I'm just gonna do this now. I'm just gonna walk into this movie and make this shit happen. And then cut to Severance and doing the show with you. I was so excited to work with you because I feel like you have so and you've done it in your work in other shows and movies but you

know you have that aspect of your personality that's incredibly funny and outgoing but then there's this other layer that's underneath that I find really really interesting that is like same way with Adam you know Adam had done a lot of television and done movies where he explored that, but people knew him mainly through comedy. But I always feel like it's so much fun when someone who's known comedically, primarily, does something that is not that. I agree.

Almost more interesting. And I'm wondering, what was your feeling coming on to do the show? And I'd imagine it must be strange to come into this environment that we're working on and kind of jump into it. What was the experience like for you? Well, I've really learned over the years

to just like be in the moment and also like respect the space that has been created by all the other, you know, elements, the actors, the producers. And so I've learned to put my ego aside. And because as an actress, you walk in and go, are people going to like me? Am I going to be comfortable? Sort of like, it's really secondary in these situations, especially with a show that has the impact of Severance. So I came in just sort of quietly and hair, makeup, everybody on the production, as you know, takes their job very

seriously. So I was adjusting to that and then going on the set and just observing. And I think that that also helps in a setting like Severance to just take it all in and not ask too many questions because it's all going to unfold. and I think that that's the brilliance and beauty of the show. So for me it was fine. I just like I felt like I fit in. I sensed who Cecily the character was. There wasn't too much I needed to know or ask about her and I just sort of melted and sunk into who she was and got to work. It was very comfortable and seamless and also intense because the set is very daunting.

It's constantly being shifted around. A lot of hallways. I remember the first few days we were just having you walk through hallways a lot. And I remember thinking like, I hope Sandra doesn't think this is just like walking through hallways. But I understand the impact of the hallways. You. And I remember thinking like, I hope Sandra doesn't think this is just like walking through hallways. But I, but I understand the impact of the hallways, you know what I mean? And, and,

and so I went with it and I kind of like, I kind of loved it in a way, walking, running, stopping, you know, it's like all the physicality plays such a huge part of, and the less you say, sometimes the more impact it has. So there really wasn't anything that threw me or made me uncomfortable or made me question my importance in this role. And I just, everything is so beautifully orchestrated and thought out. So I knew that whatever I was doing

would be put into the mix. I find it always overwhelming to go on any set when you're working, because it's such a vulnerable thing, too, and especially if you're going into an environment that has already been going and you don't quite know. It's much easier to be on a set every day, right? Because you get used to it, and you get used to everybody, and the cameraman, you know his name, and it's just,

it doesn't, but my goodness, coming in, and I thought you were amazing coming in, and one of my favorite moments that you have in the show is that moment in episode 210, you know, in the last episode of the season where Adam comes at you with the gun and you guys have this like face-off with the gun. I remember us figuring it out

because we had to figure out like, how is this gonna work where, you know, he's got a gun, you're, how are you gonna let him in there? What is it gonna be? And the way that you guys just sort of, like, felt that thing out, and it wasn't scripted lines, it was verbal, but it was just sort of, like, I don't know, like, the energy between you two guys.

I had imagined in my head, I think only these two actors could pull this off, this kind of, this plot point of having to get you out of there, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well. And it's so funny to me.

I thought, I mean, you came up with, you know, the brilliant line, step off, fuck off, which is hysterical. That's right. I mean, to me, it's a classic Sandra Bird heart line. Oh, yeah. And I just have to say, out of all the things I've done over my career, I have never encountered more people who stop me and say, you were incredible and severance. Oh, that's great.

They were totally blown away. And I'm like, oh my God, it's like everywhere I go now on a plane and I'm in a grocery store that, oh my God, it's like, I knew the show had great impact, but the combination of people kind of, you know, some people really knowing me, kind of knowing me came together in such a beautiful way. And I was just like, five minutes in Severance is like 15 hours in any other show. So you guys should really congratulate yourself

for that impact. Thank you. Well, I was so, so excited when Ben told me that you were gonna play Cecily and then getting to hang out with you and talk to you. And I think I just immediately wanted to talk about Letterman and King of Comedy and you're just the coolest person

and getting to shoot that scene was such a treat and so much fun. I feel really grateful that we have a chance to work together and I hope we work together again more. And we don't know what happened to Cecily we work together again more and we don't know what happened to Cecily at the end of episode. Well, we don't know what happened and I think, I don't know,

there's no sort of limitation to what the characters do or where they go. Well, there's the other classic line that I've seen memed which is, it's the fucking spouse, is that the line? Yes, yes, yes, people love that, they love that. It's great. You should be very proud, Sandra, thank. People love that. They love that. That's great. You should be very proud, Sandra.

Thank you. Well, I'm always proud every day. I'm almost every day. I'm like, Adam. I'm just. Thank you guys. Thanks, Sandra. Great talking to you.

Thanks. Great seeing you. Bye-bye. Bye. And that's it for this episode. The Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam will be back again next week. The Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam will be back again next week. The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Red

Hour Productions, and Great Scott. If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your other podcast platform of choice. It really makes a difference. If you've got a question about Severance, call our hotline, 212-830-3816. We just might play your voicemail and answer your question on the podcast. Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Gabrielle Lewis, Naomi Scott, and Leah Reese Dennis. This show is produced by Ben Goldberg. It's mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

We have additional engineering from Hobby Crucis. Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael Lavey, Melissa Wester, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff. And the team at Red Hour, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Jean Pablo Antennetti, Martin Valdiroutin, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker, and Sam Lyon. And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christie Smith at RISE Management. I'm Ben Stiller. And I'm Adam Scott.

Thank you for listening. snake.