The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott - S1E4: The You You Are

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

It's just Ben and Adam this week, and boy do the boys have a lot to say about Season 1 Episode 4. They'll also get into Ben's passion for self-help literature, Adam's love for his Eastbound & Down fleece half-zip, and their shared dedication to getting a good night's sleep.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is brought to you by Confluence by Atlassian, the connected workspace where teams can create, organize, and deliver work like never before. Set knowledge free with Confluence. I'm Ben Stiller. I'm Adam Scott. And this is the Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every episode of Severance. Today, we're recapping season one, episode four, The You You Are, written by Carrie Drake and directed by Aoife McArdle. Now, you want to talk about how you found Aoife and how you guys, because the episode really feels like a continuation visually of what you did with the first few episodes,

of course, with some kind of different visual twists. Aoife's incredible. Yeah, she is Irish. And Katie Pruitt, who I've worked with for a long time, who is one of the producers on the show and AD'd and has done a lot on the show, showed me some of her work. And she had done a bunch of music videos and commercials and this little independent called Kissing Candice.

And I just thought her visual style was pretty incredible. And when we were trying to figure out how to make the show, I knew I was going to direct six of the episodes. And then the other three, we were going to get one or two other directors. And when I saw Aoife's work, I thought, oh, well, she really has this just amazing eye. And tonally, I felt like she could get what the show was about. And we had a really great talk on the phone and she came over and we decided to have her do the the middle three episodes so you know never met her before this process and we kind of jumped in and i think she did just uh really really beautiful work especially the you see we were shooting everything at the same time kind of in terms of the first three episodes we

were you know, creating this thing on the fly, sort of, even though we'd prepped for a long time, we were figuring out what felt right and what didn't feel right. And she was jumping in kind of at the same time. So it wasn't like she looked at the first three episodes and started on her episodes. We just were sharing all the illustrations and references and talking about movies and images and, you know, kind of all working together. Jessica Lee Gagné, our cinematographer, was shooting with her also. So it kind of was, you know, like we were all jumping in together, really. I do remember season one shooting, we sometimes would switch back and forth between you and Aoife

in the same day if we happened to have stuff that needed to be shot out you know we would go back and forth day to day but also sometimes in the same day yeah and that wasn't ideal for anybody but right as the shoot schedule went along yeah and you know time started to sort of like go by and run out we would try to do that sometimes and try to sort of like go by and run out. We would try to do that sometimes and try to sort of like, you know, join forces with our crew and be able to take advantage of shooting at the same location. But that's tough.

I'm sure that was tough for you as an actor to have to jump between episodes sometimes. Yeah, well, I mean, it's challenging, but I thought it was certainly, you know, sometimes jumping between Innie and Audi in the same day and then back again was certainly, you know, sometimes jumping between Innie and Audi in the same day and then back again was challenging, but it just kind of forces you into a corner to figure stuff out, just get it done. But I loved working with Aoife, too. She was really, really inventive.

And there were some shots in this episode that really blew me away, having not seen it in a while. Well, let's take a quick break, and then when we come back, we'll jump into episode four. At Lumen, things are not always what they seem. Mark, Dylan, Helly, and Irving in MDR make a great team, but what else lies beyond the four white walls of their department? There seem to be more questions than answers as the secrets of Lumen are slowly revealed. There's definitely a lot more going on than you see. It's a little bit creepy. I agree.

There are more Q's than A's in this place. Yeah, for sure. But luckily, your workplace doesn't have to be so dysfunctional, thanks to Confluence by Atlassian. I feel like something like Confluence could really help those severed workers, you know? They're kind of always organizing and trying to come up with group ideas and things that need organization and back and forth and a lot of creative interaction in the workspace. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before. Where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important context they didn't even know they

needed. A space where AI streamlines the things that normally eat up their time, letting teams generate, organize, and deliver work faster. In fact, with Confluence, teams can see a 5.2% average boost in productivity in one year. I think any boost in productivity, especially with a group like the Severed group, imagine how many more files they could complete if they had Confluence.

Set knowledge free with Confluence. Learn more at atlassian.com slash Confluence. That's A-T-L-A-S-S-I-A-N dot com slash C-O-N-F-L-U-E-N-C-E. For the past three seasons of Gone South, we've covered one story per season. We tried to figure out who killed Margaret Kuhn. She told me, I'm going to kill you. I said, well, do it, bitch. Go ahead and do it. We delved into the violent world of the Dixie Mafia. I'm an outlaw

and I was a thief, but I'm far from being the psychotic nutcase that I've been made out to be. And we tracked a serial killer in Laredo, Texas. Just turn around, please. Turn around. Now, Gone South is back for a fourth season. But this time, we're doing things a little differently. So, in Gone South Season 4, we'll be bringing you new stories every week, with no end in sight. I'm Jed Lipinski. Welcome back to Gone South, an Odyssey original podcast. Listen and follow now on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts for new episodes every week.

Okay, so episode four picks up with Helly in the break room, just where we left her in episode three, reading the compunction statement, which is such a luminy title for what she's reading. It's so Dan. It's fantastic. There's just so much great Dan stuff in this episode in terms of just Lumen verbiage and scripture.

There's a lot of scripture in this one. There really is. This is the episode, and I forgot it was, where the first big Hellion mark really butt heads over fundamental Lumen principles. And it's really fun to see that kind of burst out into the open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so she's reading the compunction statement, and Milchik allows her to take a break for the day and she goes into the elevator. But for the Innie, and we get to kind of experience this along with Helly, and it's fascinating to see, breaking for the day means

pausing for like two minutes to walk to the elevator. And then the elevator closes, opens right back up, and she's back at work. That's what finishing a day at work and starting the next day at work is like for an innie. Which always just rattles my mind and makes me tense when I think of that, that for these innies, they're just leaving and coming right back. And always be awake. Yeah. I wonder what that would be like to have the rest physically happening inside your body, but your mind doesn't get a break. But also that doesn't that just make you think about how weird sleep is? Yeah. Sleep is super weird.

Whenever it gets time to sleep for me, I'm always so happy to go to sleep. I don't know why, but it's just like, it's that thing where you're, I guess, cause I'm tired, but like, what is that, that we have that rest and that sort of break from consciousness? And then I always look forward to my dreams. Yeah, I had the same feeling last night. In fact, I was exhausted and so happy to just lie down. And I chose last night to watch friends as I went to sleep. And it was so pleasant. And I think as I get older, I get more and more excited about sleep and then more excited about talking about how much sleep I got the next day. I think that's exactly right. I just proved that I'm old. Yeah. I think we just, we both just

did. I love going to sleep. Sleep is wonderful. People can play this podcast to help them fall asleep. That's right. As they're doing right now. Can I tell you something? In the break room, the other thing that I just really connect with are Milchix headphones. Kat Miller, our prop genius person, found these old 70s headphones that I used to have these Sennheiser yellow foam headphones that just took me back to like 1975. And that's what Milchik wears.

So those were those literally the ones you had as a kid? No, no, no. But but the same model. And you know, the same. That's what I mean. You know, when you see, and when you see, yeah, the same type. And when you see something like that you haven't seen from your childhood, it just like triggers so much stuff. And I was like, yes, those are the ones. And they look, just Tramiel looks so cool. I was just going to say, he looks so cool with them on.

I think Tramiel just looks cool. You put anything on his face, he just looks awesome in everything. Yeah, he does. And Brit, let's just comment on what an incredible performance in that scene. For sure. This is like we're just seeing the underside of what the reality of being an Innie is. Yeah. One thing I want to say, too, about how incredible Brit is in this scene and why it's such a

painful scene to watch. Or one of the many reasons it is, is because as an audience so far, we've experienced Heli as this superhero figure. Like she is the kind of voice of reason and justice down here, just in the first few episodes. And we see them break her here. It's disconcerting because you see this is someone who is very strong and really rebelling against this and you're kind of with her on that and then all of a sudden you see oh this is something that's going to be very very hard for her to survive or fight against but it also kind of makes you I think in a way just realize that how serious this whole thing is and the underbelly of, you know, what's going on here.

Yeah. So after the break room, we're back at MDR and then Bert just sort of walks in the room, Christopher Walken, and we have this hilarious moment of Dylan just grabbing a stapler and like wielding it as a weapon.

I think we even might have slipped in a little gun sound effect there when he opens up the stapler. It's like a... Really? Yeah. And just a classic Dylan Howe in the wet fuck. Did you get it?

Yeah. I was going to comment on the use of Howe in the wet fuck too. It's just so Dylan. Yeah. And very Danish. And, you know, all of a sudden we got Christopher Walken in MDR there, and he's trying to connect with the group. And to me, I'm just such a Chris Walken fan.

The fact that he's in the show, anytime he shows up, to me, it's just so much fun. And I think Chris really enjoyed the dialogue, Bert's dialogue, you know, and his turn of phrase. And, you know, I think as an actor, that kind of thing, just from the little I've worked with him and, you know, seen his process, that, you know, the words are really what does it for him

and how he kind of sort of like, sort of grasps onto those and finds ways to bring them alive that I think turn him on. And that's me speaking for Chris Walken's, his process, but just watching how he works. And he's just, it's just so, as we know, iconic. Yeah, watching the episode, he's just incredible.

He's so present and getting to work with him and actually watch it happening. You see just how brilliant it is. You can feel it just watching the guy. He is just himself around the words and really owning them. And it's really a unique thing. And you see why he is who he is. He's just unbelievable. And I think he really loved the idea that he was bringing in the handbook totes. so he's dropping off literal tote bags that were constructed and made to carry around your lumen handbook and it's the new handbook tote so i'm assuming that every season or every year there's a new handbook tote that comes out i i guess it seems like you know that's the thing down on the severed floor little little things like that are a big deal. And everybody gets excited for the smallest thing because that's all they have. That's it. That is absolutely it. And Irving is really excited that he gets to see and receive a handbook tote before the official release. Yes, exactly. It's definitely cool merch. There's a lot of merch that I feel, you know,

I mean, we get into it in this episode too with the finger traps, right? Yeah. And that's all the Dylan world of like how he, you know, really accrues merch and prizes. And it's, you know, again, something I think it's very specific to this office culture

too and the idea of these little rewards yeah they're like trophies almost yeah and they're their goals you know for for people to um attain and i have like a bunch of lumen mugs and do you have and you must have stuff over the years there's what about merch that you've received from work or around? Is there any merch? Because in entertainment it seems to be, but I think it's everywhere

with any big company. There's always like ephemera that's coming in. Is there any merch that's been particularly useful in your life or that you've hung on to for a long time?

I mean, I'm wearing my Knicks hoodie right now, but that's just, I don't know if that's merch or just like that's swag. No, swag is free stuff that you get. Yeah. I bought this. Yeah, that's merch. Merch and swag. That's somebody should name a production company. Merch and swag. Merch and swag. You know, I think Christine was on Search Party, the show, Search Party. Yeah, great show. And I, yeah, I got a tote bag show Search Party. Yeah, great show. And I got a tote bag from Search Party that I use all the time, even though I wasn't even on it. I just benefited from being married to her.

And for whatever reason, that particular tote bag has just sort of stuck with you. Yes, and she'll make fun of me about it all the time. So I see you've got your Search Party tote bag. I have. Which is a great show great it's such a good show i have a uh an eastbound and down fleece like half zip that for whatever reason has just stuck with me and it was like 15 years ago but it's so comfortable and it has the added benefit of saying eastbound and down on it, which is cool.

Yeah, yeah, very cool. And actually, it's really great to have those things, you know, as the years go by. Oh, my God, that movie, we did that long ago, you know? You know, I just have to say that we've now been talking about our own merch that we have in our lives in a pretty excited fashion now for like five minutes, and we were just making fun of the people at lumen for being so excited about their their merch so we're no more evolved we're in our own version right

we're all we're we're in the simulation yes it's obviously we think we're so evolved but uh it's that's just our version of handbook totes i I think you're right. You and your search party tote and me and my eastbound and down fleece half zip couldn't be more excited about those things. I can just hear Irving saying, how dare you, how dare you judge us? Exactly, and he's right. Okay, so Helly comes back from the break room and Mark just sort of asks her how many times.

So you, and looking at Dylan, you get the sense that both of those guys have spent time in the break room and Mark just sort of asks her how many times. So you, and looking at Dylan, you get the sense that both of those guys have spent time in the break room and it is tough. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and she says what, like 1072. Yeah, that's right. Which is a lot. Yeah. I mean, and then you're sort of like, okay, I don't know. I feel like there's already something going on between mark and heli where you kind of know she's changed something in you just from the minute she showed up it's underneath the surface i think so and i think mark is trying to push against it and push it away because he

yeah you know yeah okay and then we jump to ond and and Irving visiting Bert at O&D. He takes Bert up on his directions on how to get to O&D, and he goes and pays him a visit. Yeah. You want to watch that clip? Yeah, yeah. Rise up from your deathbed and sally forth, more perfect for the struggle. Exactly. I can't believe you.

You have this. I'm sorry. What time is it? I have to go. Wow. So they briefly touch hands there there and it's so beautiful, but obviously it freaks Irving out, this intimacy. Yeah. In a lot of ways, they're in this version of a prison, really, where the smallest thing, everything is under surveillance. There's that aspect to it. I just think there's so much great chemistry

between those two guys. And even just hearing them quote the Egan verses, it almost sounds like it's classical. It's just great to watch them do that. And John and Chris, it's never not exciting working with him and so directing wise and i know you know ifa felt this too that you know you kind of just set up the camera and yeah let them do their thing and you know maybe get a little feedback but it's really like two two incredibly accomplished actors who just are connecting. Yeah, and these guys and their relationship

bring so much emotion and tenderness to the show and humanity to the show. It really just is so lovely whenever they have a scene together. And also it's really interesting watching these two characters and sort of their relationship sort of sprouts from their shared love of art and how they sort of reflect and react to the art around the severed floor and the fact that Irving has long admired the art around the severed floor and he gets to actually meet one of the people responsible for the placement and timing of the art. And you start realizing the art and all of the details around where it comes from and what it means is so important. And like you were saying before, there's such limited stimuli down there that this is like their entertainment. This is movies, TV, art. This is everything are these paintings and what they mean and where they

came from and how long they hung in a particular spot it's all the importance of all of this is huge yes you exactly right it's the it's the only visual stimuli really that they get outside of these white walls and their computer screens yes i also think you know what john brings to irving is this piousness, this incredible belief in, you know, the, the religion of, of what it is to, to work at Lumen and his belief in that as an actor to me is what makes everything so real. It just gives it depth. And then, you know, in the next scene where, you know, he's going back to MDR and, uh, he passes by this conference room where Milchik left the copy of the UUR. Yeah. It's, again, a momentous moment.

Yeah. So momentous that he doesn't even touch it or go into the room. Right. Like, he has to just go tell Mark. Yeah, because he wants to follow protocol, right? Because you're department chief, so he wants to follow protocol, right? Because you're department chief. So he wants to talk to you first before he even talks to Milchick. That's right.

And it was important to have that book be sort of a standout down there, even in terms of the color. And that jacket cover shot is just also one of my favorite little images in the show. Just, you know, it's just this kind of ridiculous self-help book. I love self-help books. So. Yeah. So have you always read self-help books? I know that you and Janine Garofalo wrote one back in the day that I had. That's right. That's right. Feel this book.

Feel this book. Right. book right yeah which was it was not a bestseller well i bought it thank you adam um and the uur kind of to me what's so funny about it is it's kind of almost like real you know what i mean yeah um i remember shooting this scene where i'm reading the you you are in the bathroom stall and and I was reading the book and Dan Erickson had written a few chapters just so we had them in the book for me to read. We'd have trouble keeping it together because the text was deeply funny. I mean, it's really funny. Yeah. I mean, it's Dan's specialty. He could write the whole book. And I think Rickens' UUR is available on Apple Books.

Yes. There's some version of it. And, I mean, it's just so weirdly self-important, personal, where he's kind of working out his own stuff in his life in the guise of a self-help book. Yes. And then it's impossible not to hear Michael Chernus's voice reading it because it's just so pompous and ridiculous but the other thing and this is a part of this episode that gets sort of kicked off is that for any mark to read this it is anything but funny it's it's it's literally like changing his world for sure i mean your job needs you not the other way around there's something he reads in this book and that i, that is a brand new world shattering idea.

Yeah, yeah. He has never thought of this job, which is everything to him, being turned around like that. The idea of his employer needing him rather than that is brand new. And that combined with the influence that and ideas that Helly are bringing in to MDR, things really start to snowball a bit for Mark. Yeah. And that's something I think is really interesting about the tone of the show is that it is funny. We're seeing, you know, we're saying how funny and ridiculous, you know,

this sort of silly take on a self-help book is. But we're also giving it the weight for the characters who don't have that sense of humor, who wouldn't know any Mark B's innocence. And it actually becomes a huge plot point in the show and really kind of like shifts a lot of things in terms of what goes on from here on in. Yeah, for sure. And just, you know, how Irving gets Mark and Dylan to come and look at the book and how they're all staring.

And Aoife did a great job with that shot of the three of you kind of just staring at the book on the chair. And that scene plays out really beautifully in that three shot where you're kind of going back and forth about, well, what should we do with this thing? And, you know, uh, again, how Irving is so by the book and everybody's quoting, you know, what the handbook would say to do in a situation like this. Irving says, um, you know, maybe it's a loyalty test, just like the spicy candy. What is the spicy candy? What was that? The spicy candy. Jesus. Yeah. It's kind of like the bad soap that, you know.

Yeah. I mean, and then Dylan, just like great Dylan dialogue of, you know, no, it's booty. It's booty with your name on it. That's right. I love that. That's right. And, you know, it's a big deal to figure out like what to do with this thing. And then Dylan is kind of, you know, secretly obsessed with it too.

And, you know, there's that scene where he goes in of, you know, secretly obsessed with it too. And, you know, there's a scene where he goes in and, you know, kind of roots around in your drawer and finds it and reads the acrostic poem. Yeah. Let's listen to that. D is for dreaming. The start of it all. E is for energy, breaking down walls. S is for stewardship of which gives us more worth. I is for eyes, which observe us with love. Until N, meaning newness, rains down from above. And why?

That's a question we needn't now ponder. For destiny, friends, shall deliver all yonder. Hey, how are you? Good. Yeah? Seems like you're getting the hang of stuff here i mean it's wild again under these crazy conditions without access to any media something as ridiculous as an acrostic poem or juvenile is profound truly and uh t is for terror which gives us more worth yeah it's crazy it's like what does that mean well as with any acrostic poem there are two or

three that just sort of really seem jammed in there and don't make a whole lot of sense. I is for eyes, which observe us with love. No, that would be E. Yeah, I is not for eyes at all. And Y is now the word Y, which should be W. And Y, that's a question we need now ponder, which means I couldn't think of anything that starts with a y yeah i love the childlike quality of it all but and also what's what it's intercut with in the episode is anything you know but that and also i love rickin and i think that rickin uh means well and he you know there's a ceiling for rickon as to self-awareness i think he isn't

the the fool that you could judge him as you know he is a really uh interesting uh character yeah yeah god michael's incredible just incredible yeah yeah i agree i agree and you know all of these characters on the one hand could seem really kind of silly or childlike so you know or it could seem like just sort of one note but then there is always something else underneath them that's that's grounded yeah with that let's take a quick break don Don't go anywhere. We will be back soon to talk about the rest of Episode 4. Okay, we're back, and we are back with a fact check. Ben, it turns out that Feel This Book was in in fact, a bestseller when it came out. Oh, my God.

Really? Yeah. Wow. Wow. And you know what? We must have gamed the system somehow. That's right. Maybe I bought up all the copies or something.

And I still have that book, actually, another fact check. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think people knew what to make of it, really, when it they probably thought oh maybe this is i don't know i you know i think we thought we were being funny and i don't know if we were i think it was funny i got it i mean you guys are both looking into the camera in a similar way to mark dyer and just like with black turtlenecks am i right black turtlenecks

that's right but uh that's a whole we could go into like what we thought was funny back then and sure ridiculous uh talk show appearances and things like that did you guys go go out and promote it like as the black oh fantastic i think like when that came out, I might've gone on Conan with Janine and we might've just pretended that we were like serious the whole time. Or there was one, I think around that time when we went on Conan and did like, I said, I was doing a stomp,

like a revival of a stomp show, you know, which was like the, but it was like with garbage or something and did a whole dance number. It's really, it was so much energy being expended. That's great. That's great.

Another time. I'm sure I watched it and thought it was hilarious. Okay. We're back in MDR and Helly finds the map that Mark had found in the group photo, finds it in Mark's desk while he's in the kitchen. And she and Dylan are looking at it. And it just sort of causes an immediate problem. But at the same time, Mark has been looking at the sneaking looks at this map.

So there is something in him that is curious about this. And he just read the book. And so he's been kind of thinking about it too but he doesn't want them to think that and he's fighting against it himself and so there's this moment where helly says the work is bullshit and that offends mark and he says the work is what is it mysterious and important mysterious and it's very you say it in a very, you know, kind of self-important way. It's like, hey, hey, hey, the work is mysterious and important. Okay, don't forget it.

So I'm assuming, or I assumed reading that dialogue that that was an important, that's something we say to each other, that's something that we feel about the work we're doing. I think so. I think it's probably in the handbook. Yes. It feels to me like that's, you know, it might even be, you know, what is the answer when the question is,

what are we doing here? Exactly. Because, you know, no one's really being told what they're actually doing. Yeah, what are we doing with these numbers? Yeah, with all of it. The deflection is the work is mysterious and important, and that's what you need to know. So the result of this fight is Mark takes the map

and puts it into the paper shredder. And in that little cabinet where he got the paper shredder, there is a paper cutter that Hallie spots and she grabs that paper cutter. And in a continuation of this whole thing that's kind of been going throughout the series where we're using sort of office ephemera as weaponry she grabs a paper cutter storms into uh cobell's office and threatens to cut off her four fingers if she doesn't get a video camera to make a message for her audi yeah which is you know the only thing that an any can probably do to somehow get some leverage is to threaten physical harm to the body that they share with the outie. Yeah.

And it's smart. It's smart. And she goes right in there and confronts Cobell, and Cobell definitely gets it. You can see. Yep. And I think this is also the Cobell in this episode is she's very much the sort of stern administrator. And also, we get to see a little bit more of how far she'll go.

And she'll let Helly kind of have her rope a little bit. But ultimately, she's going to get what she, what she needs to get. And she's, you know, she's not going to get her way. Yeah. And just from the ultra specificity of Patricia's work, I get the feeling that usually by this point, people are kind of brought to heel and Helly is pushing it a bit further than anyone has. And it's starting to wear on her patience, but she's going to cut her fingers off i mean what's she going to do she's got to get the video camera and get this done exactly and she she knows that that'll be you know what what's going to happen the next step she's already

thinking kind of three steps ahead yeah and uh she gets to record her little video message and uh and then she you know they all kind of walk her to the elevator with the video message on her little mini disc. Yep. And what does she say? I guess it's the part where I should tell you all to go to hell, but you're already there. Yeah.

Yeah. What a great line. Yeah, it's great. It's kind of like, and doesn't she say also like, oh, and I was never sorry. Yeah, she says that to Milchik. I mean, I guess she's saying it's kind of like uh and doesn't she say also like oh and i was never sorry yeah she says that to milchick i mean i guess she's saying it to everyone but yeah it's like the break room i don't care i said it 1072 times but i i wasn't sorry doors close we're in her pov and ifa did this in a really smart way where you know from her POV she looks down and all of a sudden

she's got a different mini disc in her hand yeah and the doors open and there you all are yeah kind of different clothes slightly different clothes yeah and in my mind always kind of looking like the Adams family or something yeah it's just this group. This group is like, you're back. Here we are. Yeah. So she arrives with this different mini disc, and everyone gathers in MDR to watch the video that the Audi made for her Innie. So shall we take a listen to what Helly's Audi has to say here?

Yeah. Helly, I watched your video asking that I resign. I also received and responded to your previous request. I assumed that would resolve the issue, but now Ms. Cobel says you threatened to cut off your fingers? I understand that you're unhappy with the life that you've been given. But you know what? Eventually we all have to accept reality. So, here it is. I am a person. You are not I make the decisions you do not and if you ever do anything to my fingers know that I will keep you alive long enough to horribly

regret that. Your resignation request is denied. Turn it off. Wow. It's rare to have it sort of distilled down to such frank language. I am a person. You are not. That is what they really think of us down here is and that is so harsh you know it's it's the reality you know it's sort of like also in the

beginning of the episode when you see what's going on in the break room this is the episode where you get to really understand how um bleak this is for this reality for these innies and yeah she is really making it clear that the that she and probably you know what is the world outside that you know what how does the culture look at innies and this is something we kind of hint at earlier in the season too just sort of the debate as to what you know what are the rights of an any, how much of a person are they? And I think for Mark and for everyone there in MDR, they already know this. They already, to a certain extent, assume or know this about how they're viewed in the outside world. And for Mark, I think Helly pushing and pushing and pushing is destructive. And it's frustrating because this is all we're going to get. If you keep pushing,

the best we can hope for is this. And now you've brought this all out to the surface again, and it's going to depress and discourage everyone in the office. And it's going to take us another week or so to kind of get everyone back into the spirit of Lumen and MD. You know, it's just a reminder of something you'd, as a boss, you'd rather not have everyone subject to. Yeah. You want to keep your head in the sand a little more. Yeah. That's Mark at this

point. And I like what you did right after that, at the end where you see how you're reacting to it, because you can see that you're feeling that, but you're also feeling, I think you're just, again, being affected by the question she's asking and feeling a little bit of empathy for her or more than a little empathy but also kind of just it's something is not ringing true to you or feeling the same at least that's what i get from what you're doing there is that mark's starting to just feel a little different about all this that's right and again the rick and has, and the map, right? This is the beginning of the kind of everything cracking here for Mark. Yeah.

And it was fun, I think, for us when we were shooting that to see what Audi heli was like, you know, just to get it like for Brit to play around with that. Super interesting. Yeah. And just get a different, you know, it's a different character, really. Different feeling. Very condescending. Talking to her Annie like she's a child.

Yeah. Yeah. That's just one of the sort of things about this world and this show is that there's an opportunity to explore these different, you know, kind of dualities in what is supposedly the same person. It is the same person, but very different. And I just think that's an interesting idea. These are not different characters. I just said it's a different character, but really it's the same character. It's just different aspects to this person's personality.

Yeah, different part of them. All right, so let's talk about Petey's funeral. This is super interesting. It's, you know, Mark, Audi Mark is at the funeral. Why do you think he has decided to go to this thing? Well, I think Mark is curious because, you know, after what happened with Petey and he saw, he basically saw Petey kind of die in front of him. And, you know, Audi Mark at this point is, you know, there's this phone that's in his basement that's buzzing and he's starting to get curious.

And obviously to have somebody come into his life and then die mysteriously like that. And also after everything he was saying to him, I think he's, you know, he is really, it's interesting that the kind of the dual trajectory of Innie and Audi Mark. Yeah. Innie Mark is starting to get awakened to something.

Audi Mark is starting to get awakened to something. Yeah. And so he's curious and he goes to the funeral. I think there's some guilt in there too, maybe. I think so. I mean, just off of that ending, of that ending of episode three when Mark goes back and kind of hides the phone and gets all freaked out. And he didn't really do anything, but he didn't really help him maybe enough. Yeah. And he's trying to figure out what to do. And he meets Petey's daughter there and his ex. And we see this video that's really effective where Petey and his daughter, played by the great Cassidy Layton, by the way, she's so good. Just excellent. And his ex-wife, Nina, played by Joanne Kelly, who is also just excellent. But this video that they show at the

memorial service of Petey and his daughter, uh, playing guitars and singing enter Sandman, what the Metallica song, what made you kind of zero in on that song? showing up and by the way patricia's just amazing in this sequence or selbig uh she shows up to get that chip out of pd's head and we thought what could be a fun kind of spooky cool song to have that sequence play out to and uh you know who doesn't like enter sandman it's one of my favorite songs um it really works. It really works so well. Yeah, it's great. And, you know, they did a great job of playing it together and singing it and Yule playing on the guitar. And it was fun to, you know, see how that sequence came together and the way Aoife shot it with seeing through that, the hole, the drill hole in his head. Such a cool shot. Honestly, this was a moment when we were making the show,

I was like, oh man, I hope people go along with this because it feels right to me, but Coppell's going to drill a hole in a dead man's head at his funeral. Yep. And this is like, we're saying something about who this character is and also the tone of the show.

And when you think about it, It's a big swing. Right? It's a lot. But when you think about it with the break room and the mean message from Helly's Audi

and just like, it's a very dark episode. And we committed to it and I think it really defines Cobell in terms of her commitment to this company and to also just getting things done that she wants to get done. She will do what she needs to do. And she does it on her own, really. She went and did this kind of rogue. One other thing that's great about Enter Sandman is that this version of Enter Sandman is like a happy kind of giggly version with this father and daughter kind of having this great time. And that cut with the gruesomeness of Patricia drilling into Yule's head is, is really, really effective. And I, I seem to remember Yule was there, but there was also a dummy of Yule there.

Am I right about that? Or was you, was it just Yule? It was Yule. And we had a head and like a Yule head. And I have to say the sound on that scene, there's two sounds, one,

the drill sound, which is just so ominous. And then the creaking, just little detail, the creaking of the opening of the casket. Yes. I find so creepy. Yes. And that's just the place where our sound mixers really and designers really, you know, just those little things that just make it that much more palpable. Makes a huge difference when that stuff is dialed in that well.

And Patricia is so funny also at the casket when she comes up and you see how she tries to talk to June and says, I know. So he was your, she says he was my father. And she goes, so I guess you were close then. So weird. She's so weird. So weird. The Selvig.

Okay. So weird. She's so weird. So weird, Ms. Selvig. Okay, so we are back in Lumen now. You know, there's the scene after that, the scene where Ms. Casey is told by Cobell to have a wellness session with Mark? That's right. And what I love about that is that she's wanting to test mark it seems in some way because we see the candle that she got out of his basement right in episode three right and there's that candle and the candle's burning in the room

and she asked him to sculpt a little ball of clay. And, you know, in this episode, we didn't talk about this, but Mark has that moment after the funeral where he drives out to the spot where Gemma's car crashed. Oh, right. And you have this incredibly emotional moment, you know, really the most emotional moment since the first episode, where you're there at the site where she know where she died um and then in the room with miss and you just needless to say adam you did an amazing job with that scene and i think it's also beautifully shot by jessica and etha for sure

it's so evocative and so simple and so stark and then you're asked to sculpt this ball of clay by Ms. Casey. And you kind of sculpt it into that tree. Yeah. The shape of that tree, which is, you know, this little, okay, now we're starting to see the permeation of the Innie and the Audi a little bit.

Yeah, it kind of broke through a little bit there. Yeah, yeah. And the candle she got from the basement, she took it from the box that said- Gemma's Crafts, right? Gemma's Crafts, that's right. So who knows if that had anything to do with that breaking through, but she wanted to see if it would have any effect on her. Yeah. And yeah, so at this point, we don't quite know what's going on with all of this in terms of what Cobell is up to and what Miss Casey knows or doesn't know, or it's all kind of like, I desk and starting to explore that and read from it the acrostic poem. And then also Hellie gathering up a couple of items, an extension cord and a trash can and walking to the elevator and preparing to hang herself in the elevator, which is really horrifying to watch that process.

Really disturbing. And again, just, you know, the more we talk about this, I just realized how dark this episode is. Yeah, it really is. How unsettling it is and what it's dealing with, these themes of, you know, just Helly wants out of there enough that she's ready to end it and yeah the way that that that sequence was shot um by hefa and jessica and the way that um erica friedmarker and jeff richmond edited it with etha i think is just very um elegant in that you intercut her doing all these things uh with the poem but then also the last moment is kind of

you checking in with heli and her saying oh i'm fine yeah and then we cut to you know the the trash can being kicked out and that that's very i feel very impactful for on a lot of levels in in terms of you know what people deal with and what they keep to themselves and those themes that are you know much much more than even what the show is about in terms of someone who's in that state and also it shows that heli will not stop. She believes that this place is bullshit and she is being treated inhumanely. We're all being treated inhumanely and she will not stop. Yeah. And she's tried everything. She's tried everything to get out of there.

And this is, you know, this is her last resort. Well, also in the midst of all this, Irving is wandering the severed floor, sort of just lovesick, wandering the halls. And he comes upon, he goes into O&D to maybe try and find Bert. And he opens a door and he comes upon this sort of massive white room filled with people in lab coats working on something. He does not know what, and neither do we. I don't think it's taking swear words out of movies.

It could be, though. I mean, that's a pretty good theory. But that is a huge moment, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's a question of what is really going on back there. Okay, well, that's it for episode four of The Severance Podcast with Adam and bestselling author Ben. The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Leah Reese-Dennis. The show is produced by Zandra Ellen and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basil. We have additional engineering from Javi Crucis and Davey Sumner. Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season.

Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LeVay, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff. And the team at Red Hour, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Jean-Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderudin, Ashwin Ramesh,

Maria Noto, John Baker, and Oliver Ager. And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management. We also had additional production help

from Gabrielle Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Stephen Key, Kristen Torres, Emmanuel Hapsis, Marie-Alexa Cavanaugh, and Melissa Slaughter. had additional production help from gabrielle lewis ben goldberg stephen key kristin torres emmanuel hapsis maria alexa cavanaugh and melissa slaughter i'm adam scott i'm ben stiller and next up is episode five the grim barbarity of optics and design and you can of course stream all episodes of season one on apple tv plus right now and season season two premieres on January 17th. And we're releasing these podcast episodes daily until then.

Yeah, and now I'm going to go to sleep. I'm so excited. Oh my God, I can't wait. By the way, did you ever read the sleep book by Dr. Seuss? No. Well, maybe when I was little. Is it that or is it more of a grown-up thing? No, it's definitely a children's book, but I loved it so much

because it was all about how different people were going to sleep, different creatures. Oh, interesting. I was obsessed with that book. Anyway, that's another thing that I love about sleeping is the sleep book. I really loved that Maurice Sendak book about the kid who makes the cookies and he's like in a cookie airplane and all his clothes melt off and he falls into the milk and stuff. I forget what that one was called.

It was called In the Night Kitchen. Oh, I loved that. And Mickey was flying his little cookie airplane into the milk and then he jumps into the milk and he's naked in the milk. And at the end, it's like, that's why we have cake in the morning. And the three cooks look like Oliver Hardy from Laurel and Hardy.

Yes, they do. It's so great. And it's like all of the food in the cabinet is like the nightscape of a city. Yes. Man, I just loved that book so much. Anyway, I'm going to go to sleep too.

All right. Good night, Ben. Good night. Bye. Hey, Adam. Yeah? Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately? I don't know.

I think it's... It's... Okay, I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian. Oh my God. Well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian.

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