The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller & Adam Scott - S1EP8: What's for Dinner? (with John Turturro)

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Hollywood legend John Turturro, aka "Irving," joins the boys for their recap of Season 1 Episode 8, and he brought gossip! John gives us the skinny on his longtime working relationship with Christopher Walken, his friendship with Zach Cherry, and his missed connection with one of cinema's most celebrated auteurs. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is brought to you by Confluence by Atlassian, the connected workspace where teams can create, organize, and deliver work like never before. Set knowledge free with Confluence. Hey, I'm Ben Stiller. I'm Adam Scott. And this is the Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam, where we break down every episode of Severance. Today, we're recapping Season 1, Episode 8, What's for Dinner? Written by Chris Black and directed by the one and only Ben Stiller. Ben, second to last recap, or as they say, penultimate recap of Season 1.

How are you rating this show that you made overall on rewatch? Scale one to 10. I'm not good at judging my own work, okay? So I have been enjoying, if I'm rating the process, I've been enjoying the process a lot. It's been fun to go back in

and have the different experiences of watching the episodes with some time in between talking to everybody about them. Uh, sometimes pleasantly surprised at something and other times looking at it and going, oh, I wish I did that differently too. Yeah. Always too. Um, but overall I think it's been great and fun and, uh, I'm super super excited, too, for today because of who's on our show. Yeah, me too. Me too. I think also re-watching the show with the intention of discussing it and digging into it is a different experience, too, and that's been really fun as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and also as we roll into season two, kind of looking back at season one and thinking about all the things that we thought about when we were making season two and the little details from season one that sometimes I go, Oh, I, I,

there are actually some things I actually look at and go, wait a minute. I forgot we did that. Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't admit that, but there are. No, I see that stuff all the time and it's really fun. Also just incidentally, I'd rate this episode of the podcast that we've done so far as a 12 out of 10. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

All right, that's great. Maybe we should stop here. No, it's gonna get even bigger and better because Totoro's coming on. Oh my God, you're right. Today, we are joined by the legendary and Emmy Award winning actor, writer, and director, John Totoro, who we know and love on Severance as Irving. John, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Very excited to have you here doing this. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Very, very excited to have you here. So excited. As we were excited when you joined the cast back when we were starting the show. As was I. Yeah, that was a, that was a big thing for us when you said you were interested and we met and talked and, uh, I remember we had a nice, uh, we had a nice meal out in Brooklyn. Yes. And talked about stuff. It's always good to read great material. And I also, you know, sort of very grateful had been thought of me in doing something that I hadn't done before. That's always a big incentive and compliment.

And you say, wow, I'm not sure how good I will be doing this thing, but I love to do things that I haven't done before. And I was a fan of, you know, a bunch of films that been directed right from the beginning. Was it reality bites? Yeah, that was my first. That's right. Yeah. I remember, uh, uh, of course, I'm obsessed with the documentary of Tropic Thunder, which I consider a documentary. But so, you know, when we met and we talked with Dan and everything, I thought the scripts were excellent. And, you know, my major concern was, you know was who would be the apple of my affection. And then I suggested at the dinner Chris, because I've worked with Chris so many times, and I know Ben knows him, and I just really love something about Chris,

the child that's sort of within him with this man who has this great experience and he's very skilled too and he's a you have a lot of i always have a lot of fun together i mean chris being chris walken christopher walken the great chris walken um yes yeah sir walken yeah i mean that was pretty funny the way that all developed you know because we did have that dinner and i i remember at the dinner when we were talking i think dan erickson was there we talked about who who might be bert and you mentioned chris and i just like secretly i kind of just there was like a little bit of, I had a mini kind of explosion inside of me. And I was like, oh, this is great.

And yeah. And then you said like, I can reach out to him or I can, you know, see if he's in. I was like, all right, well, if you're going to do that, I'll be happy to do whatever, whatever we need to do. And I know Chris a little bit because my dad worked with him back in the 80s. In Hurley Burley. In Hurley Burley, a play that Mike Nichols directed and Chris Walken

and William Hurt and Sigourney Weaver and my dad, Jerry Stiller and Harvey Keitel, just amazing cast. Wow. Right. And Chris and my dad

became very close during that and I think knew each other over the years beforehand too. But, you know, he's still Christopher Walken to me as a fan. I'm just always, you know, you know, slightly intimidated as as honestly, and director and you know i know you're very like like you're really serious about the work and i and that to me was exciting because i thought okay if you see something in this you know i was curious like what what was it that you saw in it when you first read it what was it that i thought it was so original i thought it was so original and i thought the characters were all really delineated really well. And I thought, you know, obviously you'd put, you know, a lot of thought into it.

And I thought, wow, if you have the right combination of people, you know, this could be really interesting. And, you know, the group that you put together, you know, of Adam leading and Britt and Zach and Tramiel and Patricia, you know, it's a really good group. And everyone works really well together. And, you know, I've had plenty of experiences working with people who are wonderful actors. It's like a one-way street, you know. And when it's not that way, you can create this space between the characters, you know and when it's not that way you can create this space between the characters you know and so to me that's the most interesting thing and also getting to know people you know you don't know someone i didn't know anyone really except for chris and so you learn how to work together and

you start to say oh this is what the person likes and and, and, you know, my job is sort of to bring all my homework and everything I do, but also to plug in to your brain and to Dan's brain to say, okay, this is what they're going for, you know, and it takes a little, you know, adjustment at times for,

you know, I always think at the beginning, everyone's nervous and it doesn't matter who, who they are. They're nervous and you, you make choices and sometimes the choices are too big. They're too small. They're not brave enough, you know? And then once you establish that, then you can go a lot of different places, you know, and then, then you develop a shorthand and, you know, I could tell a lot of times, okay, you know, you then you develop a shorthand and you know i could tell a lot of times okay you know you want a variation and okay let me let me spin it this way let me spin it that way

but so that's that's always a joy for me you know to discover you know the the chemistry between the people that i'm working with and to, that's maybe even more important or as important as a script. It was really fun over season one, particularly at the beginning with the four of us in MDR, remember us, sort of getting to know each other and getting to know how each of us works and all of us starting to, like you said, take some chances on whether it's too big or too small or whatever, but trying something out and knowing that we would be supported by the other three. Yeah. Yeah. I watched that happen.

I mean, I think I felt it too as a director sort of starting to feel more comfortable. I remember the first few days we were shooting some stuff and I said in the hallways or something, and you came in with the Irving voice and I was like, and I didn't know you were going to do that voice. And I was, and so the first time I heard it, I was like, whoa, whoa. And it was really specific and it was really committed and I liked it, but was like, whoa, whoa. And it was really specific and it was really committed and I liked it, but I was also like, you know, it came out of nowhere. And, and I remember I was like, okay. And something is, you know, it's interesting, like as a director, you feel like sometimes you have to like, kind of say something or you have to like check in on it. And I wasn't

sure, honestly, like the first time i heard i wasn't sure i was like wow this is like a really this is a really committed choice now obviously wasn't not sure that you you know would be good doing it but it was a choice and i do you remember like i had a little conversation yeah i remember yeah oh yeah i remember exactly i remember exactly and i i said let me listen to it. And I listened to it and I said, you know what? I need to just pull that back a little bit. Yeah. And, and once I did, I don't think I gave you any direction on other than I said, are you like, is this like, tell me? Yeah. Are you sure? You said, are you sure? And I was like, I'm not sure of anything really. But no, when I, once I listened to it, I just thought, okay, you know, it's, you're still

in a virginal state. Yeah. And I didn't want to, and as a director, I didn't want to like, because by the way, like I once did that on a movie where I like, I did like a New York, like more of a New York accent and the director like freaked out about it and it got me, and I got really, I stood my ground. I was like, no, I'm gonna do this. And I don't know if he ever was like happy that I did it.

And I don't even know if it worked. But I also know as an actor, I don't want to get, I don't want the director in my head, like questioning a choice I'm making. Cause you want to feel like, okay, like let me go with this thing and explore it and not be self-conscious about it. And I swear to you by the end of the week,

like I couldn't imagine the character sounding any other way. Yeah. It was just, you know what I mean? By the end of the week, the first week of shooting, it was just like, okay, this is Irving. And it's like, of course this is Irving. Right. You know?

Right, right. But that's, you know, we're all getting to know each other and someone's trying something. And sometimes, you know, I mean, there are times where people do things things you just go well that's out of the ballpark you know that's not that's not in the vicinity you know i've been there you know you're like whoa i don't think this is gonna you know uh but sometimes it's just the little adjustments and also there's so many questions about these characters that we don't

know in terms of who their audi is you know know, what their, what their outside life is, where they come from that we don't know as an audience intentionally. And then there's the, you know, the interaction, like you're saying between the actors, which I think is such a, an important thing, what you're talking about, that chemistry, because that's really what makes something that works. I think, you know, that when that just happens and you guys develop that. I remember also, there's a moment in episode three when you pull Mark aside and you say, uh, we should take her to the perpetuity wing. Right. Right. And that was for me. And I, Adam, I know I remember talking to you cause it was sort of very early on. There was such an intensity of belief, an understanding of why it was important to take her to the perpetuity wing that told me so much about Irving in terms of his commitment to the ideology or the right, the key or lumen you know the rules and the the mythology that you'd been taught and abided by and lived by to me that moment i was like oh this is why the show can work because john tituro as irving is saying you have to take her to

perpetuity wing and i believe him that there's such a depth there that I don't even know if it was even there in the writing of that scene. Well, there was an opening to go down deep, you know, to go to descend in your elevator, you know, which is sort of a metaphor for acting. And sometimes, you know, when I've worked with different directors who are even, you know, great directors, I always think sometimes, well, what are they good at and what is my job? What can I do to surprise them a little bit, to give them, you know, a gift back, you know? And because I think, you know, that's kind of your job is to give them something that maybe they haven't thought of because they have to think of so many things. And we make, you know, Mark's character have to deal with this guy, you know, who has this kind of, you know, belief. Personally, I'm very afraid of cults. I really am afraid of them. You know, there are certain buildings I cross the street. I go like, I don't want to be even in front of the building, you know? So it was fun to kind of delve into that.

What was that like, Adam, for you when you were doing that scene? It was the first like real one-on-one time scene that I had with John. So I was nervous about it. But that kind of fervent stance he was taking there with the perpetuity wing, like you're saying, it was just crystal clear this was everything to Irving. This was everything. And it really helped me because I was still defining all the corners of Mark. And Mark had to be a believer in the place in order, become disillusioned with it. But he had to be in between someone like Irving and then someone like Dylan or Helly or something like that. So

it really helped me kind of find the gradations of where Mark falls in the kind of lumen lore of it all. But yeah, I mean, it was just, I remember that as a big moment as well. It's really fun. And it's really fun to watch. And also you say, you know, a gift that as a big moment as well. It's really fun, and it's really fun to watch. And also you say, you know, a gift that you give the director, which that's exactly what it is, but it's also obviously a gift for the audience too because everybody's getting to watch it. But there are these moments there that I think, for me,

you know, having spent a lot of time editing it, and so you look at the material and you look at the takes and all of that. As you know, as a director, when you find that take or that moment that you want to choose, that just stick with me, like that moment in that scene. And I can think of two or three or four other ones across the series that for me are sort of like those moments whenever I see them, I'm so grateful that they're there because they just i don't know what is that thing when you see somebody have a moment

that's real that just pulls you into something in a way that there's no separation between what you're watching and what it is because it feels real even though it's a TV show that's, you know, crazy thing. Well, I think, you know, there are, the whole idea is to give it away, you know, obviously to the audience. But I always think of like, you're going to be in that room looking at all this footage. So, you know, you want to give someone choices and as much complexity, you know, as is required. Yeah, that's great. And maybe just before we start talking about the episode, your relationship with Chris Walken, you guys have known each other for a long time and you've directed him a few

times, right? I had worked with him as an actor once before in Search and Destroy. Right. And we definitely got along and I've directed him three different times. I directed him once as a theater critic, like an Oscar Wilde critic in Illuminata. And he's a very interesting guy because he's confident,

but he's very humble. He's a very humble person. And, you know, it's easy to get something going between the both of you, you know? And I've seen him on stage when I was a student at, you know, Yale drama school. And I've seen him do a lot of plays. He's a really tremendously talented guy. I know everyone, you know, imitates him and stuff like that, but he's so sensitive.

You know, you can just touch his hand and it's like electric. So it's so easy to be in love with yeah yeah and watching you guys work on those scenes across the season was always such a treat to kind of watch how you guys interacted and just sort of played with each other and allowing just the energy to kind of develop yeah um. Those scenes are just so special. Yeah. John, I just want to go back to the beginning of the conversation. Just one thing I wanted to ask you.

When you said that the show was something that you had never done before, do you mean like the genre or the character? What were you referring to? Both. Both. Both. The genre and the character? What were you referring to? Both, both, both. The genre and the character. And I thought, oh, this is something I could sort of, you know, morph into.

You know, I mean, I love kind of, you know, the whole chameleon, you know, approach to something. You know, I love when someone asks me to do something that they haven't seen me do. And I feel like whenever that's, I get that opportunity. It's always an exciting one. Maybe we should take a break and then come right back and then we can recap episode eight. At Lumen, things are not always what they seem. Mark, Dylan, Helly, and Irving in MDR make a great team,

but what else lies beyond the four white walls of their department? There seem to be more questions than answers as the secrets of Lumen are slowly revealed. There's definitely a lot more going on than you see. It's a little bit creepy. I agree. There are more Qs than As in this place. Yeah, for sure.

But luckily, your workplace doesn't have to be so dysfunctional thanks to Confluence by Atlassian. I feel like something like Confluence could really help those severed workers, you know? They're kind of always organizing and trying to come up with group ideas and things that need organization and back and forth and a lot of creative interaction in the workspace.

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For the past three seasons of Gone South, we've covered one story per season. We tried to figure out who killed Margaret Coon. She told me, I'm going to kill you. I said, well, do it, bitch. Go ahead and do it. We delved into the violent world of the Dixie Mafia. I'm an outlaw, and I was a thief. But I'm far from being the psychotic nutcase that I've been made out to be.

And we tracked a serial killer in Laredo, Texas. Just turn around, Texas. Now, Gone South is back for a fourth season. But this time, we're doing things a little differently. So, in Gone South Season 4, we'll be bringing you new stories every week, with no end in sight. I'm Jed Lipinski. Welcome back to Gone South, an Odyssey original podcast. Listen and follow now on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts for new episodes every week. Okay, episode eight opens in Irving's home. So we're with his Audi. He's drinking black coffee and cranking Motorhead's Ace of Spades and then just going to town on a painting.

So this is sort of the Irving is super cool reveal in a sense. It is so satisfying to learn that this character we've been rooting for all season is super cool and interesting, uh, in, in the outside world. Uh, first of all, Ben, this Motorhead song, Ace of Spades, how did that fit in? Or John, did you have something to do with it or? No, I, i credit my director i yeah you know we knew we wanted to have a fun song and you know like i was i think i've said before i have this sort of like severance playlist you know that over the course of the years making the show that we create and we're thinking of different fun you know high energy songs and and that one just somehow felt right and i think on a

lot of levels it kind of it's interesting to you, when we start to learn more about Irving's backstory. But John, I remember when we talked about the scene, you were really specific about this process of Irving painting, that you knew, you had a sense of it in terms of, I just remember you had a really clear idea of how you wanted to do it. Well, yeah, I mean, I was, I was practicing a lot, you know,

in my dressing room during the other episodes, but, uh, I, I have a lot of painters in my family and things. And I was thinking, well, here's this guy who's really regimented. And a lot of the times these people, they have a whole other life, you know, and I had done a lot of background stuff, but when you played that song, I thought, wow, this is great because I had the song and then I had been practicing the painting and how we would paint it. And you were telling me, you know, use your hands more, do that. As I've gotten, you know, more, more experienced, sometimes you have these sequences where you

don't talk, but you have these sequences where you don't talk but you have something to do and you kept saying you know you know paint faster there and you use your hands more with it and more like an action painter you know and one of my my uncles was a abstract painter it was real and he's also searching for something you know as he's doing he's he's trying to figure something out at the same time. And I remember it was really, I felt like a really great collaboration with you in that. And it was without words, but you gave me, you know, and I was like, okay, we're like rock and rolling now. So, yeah.

Yeah. I felt that too. It was so much fun. And then honestly, the last part of it was Jeff Richman, our editor, just when we put it together, he was so into it too, you know, and it just has such an energy to it. And yeah, says so much about Irving on the outside that without words, you know, that sort of black goo that really looks a lot like... All those dreams from... Yeah, the dreams we saw earlier. Right. I got the info from Doug Coleman, who is our special effects person.

Doug, by the way, I've worked with on movies over the years, and New York is one of the prominent special effects people. He's also the guy who makes all our snow for real and all the other crazy actual practical effects in the show. And he said, it's, it's from Blair adhesives, this company that is the same company that makes the slime for Nickelodeon. It's not the same material, not the same composite, but they obviously know how to make gooey drippy stuff. By the way um

i was talking earlier about some of those scenes where i had these memorable moments the uh wellness scene this is way back i guess oh yeah yeah yes with miss case yeah miss casey well she was brilliant in the scene and and you know you think about what leaks in from his outie you know obviously he has a vocabulary and stuff know you think about what leaks in from his audi you know obviously he has a vocabulary and stuff but you're still in this kind of altered childish state or childlike state but i just thought she was so good and the way you did it i mean it's a lot of these things are so challenging and a lot of it has to do with how you listen and, you know, the point of view that you've developed to help you listen, you know, from that. And he is starved.

He's so happy when he hears certain like. Yeah. I mean, so much of this is really, you know, the only thing I think when I read it too and, you know, working on the show, there was this Kubrickian approach to it, you know, even Adam's character and, and how you been, you know, went about it. And, you know, I, I, I never worked with Kubrick. I almost worked with Kubrick, uh, but, uh, I, I didn't say the right thing, uh, to Stanley, which, um, well, I can talk about it. It's over now. So he wanted me to be in Eyes Wide Shut. There was a character that Todd Field played eventually that was supposed to be in the beginning, the middle, and the end,

but they cut the end. And they said he was going to talk to me, and he did call me up, and I had a two-hour conversation with him. Wow. And I kept thinking, well, this is a joke. You know, it can't be Stanley Kubrick. And he was like, you know, I know every film you've ever made, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, well, I know all the films you've ever made.

And he said, you know, I wrote the part for you, and I think you're a really wonderful actor. And I was embarrassed, and I said, well, thank you. And he said, well, you are. And I said, well, I can't walk around my house telling my wife that I'm a wonderful actor, you know, because she'll hit me with a frying pan. And then at the end, he said, you know, how can I get you the script?

It was in the 90s. I said, well, you could FedEx it to me. And he said, well, what if you're not home? And I said, well, my FedEx man throws it over my gate. I said, I know him. His name is Ray. And he said, that's unbelievable. Mine doesn't do that.

I said, well, do you talk to your FedEx man? He said, no, I don't know his name. So he said, okay, let's say you, I shouldn't go off on anything. Let's say you get it, you read it, you like it, then what do we do? I said, well, then we'll work it out. He said, but I heard next year you may do a film. This was a year away. He said, you want to direct something? I said, well, I directed one film. I'm not a director. I said, he said, yes, but what would we do? And I said, well, you know, we'd work it out, obviously.

You know, whatever. I didn't say, you know, forget it. You're first. That's what he wanted me to say. Oh, my God. And after talking to him for two hours, the next day, they called me up and they said, Stanley said, you're not available. What?

Because I wasn't available for two years. And you really, by the way, you really would have had to been available for two years. Yeah. I would, I would have been replaced probably. A lot of people were replaced, but I wanted to see what that experience of the hundred take thing was. That's incredible. But so when I was on this show, I kept thinking about, that kept coming into my brain.

I never really told you. I was thinking like, that kept coming into my brain. I never really told you. I was thinking like, you know what? This is better anyway. I'm better off being here. The one decision I ever made that could compare with Stanley Kubrick favorably is that I hired you for this. Well, no, I'm telling you. It kept going through my brain because I, certain, certain, you know, films. Yeah, I think he's in all our brains, you know, in terms of just his influence on film.

And I can't imagine what that's like to have Stanley Kubrick say to you, I wrote a part for you. Yeah. Yeah. And then he asked me about all the actors. What do you think of this person? What do you think of that person? Of course, I'm going to say you know they're good all the actors all the actors he was thinking of hiring or that he had all for yeah he had hired yeah he wanted to know about you know what i thought about tom and everything you know it was

like you know he's terrific i said you know that's amazing that's amazing that's an amazing story yeah um so at least i had So at least I had that experience. So I forget I'd share that. That is incredible. Well, I want to ask John just what is it that you knew about your Audi kind of walking in, the conversations you and Ben and Dan had about it? Dan gave me a whole backstory. And I did a lot of research on that backstory to see you know what would be the remnants of that for his in it right and so you know I was I was looking

forward to that but then you know once we decided that he had a leather jacket and then Ben really liked the leather jacket and then he paints and well, I figured he likes painting and he likes classical music and all that stuff. But when Ben put that song on, I was like, oh, man, this is great. This is like the secret. Yeah. This is the secret Irving, you know, who goes to the underground clubs and stuff. Who knows, right? Yeah.

Who knows, you know. I mean, all of us have surprises. And that's, you know, that's the funny thing about this show, too, is like lot of it is like we don't say what the backstory is, obviously, for the audience. But there's also the influence of a wardrobe choice. All of a sudden, it's like thought out ahead of time and incredibly specific, I feel like these choices in the moment can really affect everything too. And you have to be open to that too. That's right. Absolutely.

And that he has a dog. That's really interesting to me too. Yeah. Radar. Radar. Yes. Your Audi likes the sound of radar. We hear that in episodes. Yeah. Yeah. Radar. Radar. Yes. Your Audi likes the sound of radar. We hear that in episode three.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of the man with his dog. And that dog, by the way, is named Ditto, the actor. And Ditto is also known for being in Succession. That's right. Yeah. We had to work around his availability for-

The star. Okay. Let's get into what the other folks at mdr are up to uh back in lumen heli is scrambling to meet quota um john did you have any personal theories while we were shooting or otherwise about what the numbers are what they mean what they're for i would usually defer to zach and we'd have these discussions, you know, but, but Zach, of course, Zach had all the theories, those numbers or was enamored of those. Yes.

You know, I, I had, I had various theories, you know, but obviously like in anything, when you're like in a factory, if you're counting, you know, and you're trying to get to a certain number, you know, you may not know what that number actually means. Sure. You know, so, but I did have, but I would change it because I would talk to Zach. But I thought that was something important. Sure. You know, at least in the state that we were in, that they needed this information, that we were breaking down a certain kind of statistic that they need. Yeah, you would think it's important.

I had various scenarios. Yeah. And then when Heli hits 100%, there's the animated video of Keir Egan comes up, which is sort of like this really kind of rudimentary video screen animation. Like from Apple II era animation. Yes. That was Jeff Mann, who came on as a consultant who designed that. I worked with his production designer over the years, incredibly- Love Jeff. Yeah. Very, very talented guy.

Because it's actually interesting to me. I love, again, Irving's complete investment when he's watching the congratulatory silly little video as if it's as if you're like meeting the pope or something. I mean, it's so important. That's this fascinating thing about this moment is that even though we're all kind of banding together to rebel against this place, when this video plays, both Mark and especially Irving get really

excited and have all this reverence for this guy in this video. And yeah, should we play that little moment? I knew you could do it, Heli-R. Even in your darkest moments,

I could see you arriving here. In refining your macro data file, you have brought glory to this company and to me, Keir Egan. I... I love you. But now I must away, for there are others who need me around the world

goodbye L-E-R and thank you so Ben that voice it sounds familiar some guy well it's not the real Keir Egan because we hear the real Keir Egan recording

in episode 3 in Petey's head and in the perpetuity wing. But this is some actor that they hired to do the voice for the congratulatory animated video. Obviously, an out of work actor who needed the gig. Really needed the work. Probably got a couple callbacks for Severance but couldn't get in. Sure. So, yeah. That stuff really gets me, man. I don't know what it is.

I just listen to it and I'm like, yeah, wow. It just gets me. But I also love at this point where Irving's arc really is, in my mind, a guy who's a true believer who becomes disillusioned or whatever it is that allows you to make that choice to be a part of this sort of insurrection, if you will. Yeah. But you're right.

It's a much tougher armor to pierce with Irving. Yeah. I think it's, you know, because, you know, what happens personally to him just sends him, you know. Yeah. This is what happens to people sometimes who believe so much in something, and then they get really disappointed, you know,

and really let down. And that was a challenging thing to do. And I enjoyed doing it, but it was challenging. Yeah. All right. Let's take a quick break and we'll get into the waffle party when we come back. Thank you. connects companies with people who are looking for a job they actually enjoy, not one they just want to forget about at the end of each day. So what if Lumen used ZipRecruiter to connect with potential employees? ZipRecruiter would have to find candidates with very unique skill sets, like grouping numbers into buckets.

ZipRecruiter is the hiring site employers prefer the most. Let ZipRecruiter connect you with the right talent for all your roles. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. No special skills or security badges needed. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash severance to try ZipRecruiter for free. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash S-E-V-E-R-A-N-C-E. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Okay, so it turns out when you meet Quota, one person from MDR gets awarded a waffle party. Cobell asks Mark who should get it, and Mark suggests Dylan. I just have to say, Adam, the moment that starts that scene with you and Patricia, the laughing, you're laughing about something that was said right before the scene starts.

And I remember we did it a few times, but you, there was one where we said, let's just try one where you're like laugh like for way too long. Yeah. And just keep the uncomfortable laughing going with each other. And we used every second of it in the cut. Um, I love that. It's just so uncomfortable and weird and sort of, you know, forced kind of camaraderie or whatever it is. And you have your agenda, you know what you're doing. She's always kind of like suss or whatever it is and you have your agenda you know what you're doing she's always kind of like sussing you out too and the two of you are just sort of you know in your own

worlds but then yeah it's great yeah watching it back i had forgotten just how much laughing there was it's kept in there i remember we literally used at every single second of it. And it's great. And then she says, yeah, you kind of tell her you want Dylan to take the waffle party is a coveted event and why would you choose someone else to do this? And so Mark's covering and just trying to convince her that Dylan deserves it because he's been working so hard. And also that's also one of the phrases, a waffle party, that Dan created along innie and outie and all those things that feel they're so specific to the show and i remember when the show finally went out into the world after working on it for a couple years you know hearing people talking about a waffle party as uh some sort of like what is a waffle party and and we've been taught we've been talking about the waffle party earlier in in the, but then I remember thinking like, okay, what is the waffle party? And Dan and I had conversations about like, how far do you go with a waffle party? And what should that be? It's the ultimate perk, right?

Yeah. Oh, it's kind of what everything is leading to. it had to involve an actual waffle of course there would be waffle and and then there would be some other element of other you know perks that were you know it's obviously there's like some you know these dancers come in and that that whole i mean just just us figuring out how to choreograph that how kind of um seductive it would be, how risque, what was it insinuating? That was a kind of an inflection point, I remember, because it's almost like one of the first questions we had to answer that we'd put out there in terms of like, you know, you could just be thinking forever, what is a waffle party? But we had to somehow show it.

And I remember being a little bit concerned that like people would, again, would buy it, would feel like that's okay. You know, is that too weird? Is it too, is it inappropriate? I don't know. The whole thing is just so, you know. It has a very risque kind of overall tone to it. And I always thought of it as you toil away for this whole time and then you meet quota so you get this reward. And since the entire place and the entire culture of Lumen is devoid of any affection or anything that is even anywhere near sex or anything. But these are feelings that all of them probably have and don't understand. This is the ultimate reward that they can engage and just sort of let themselves be a part of this. Is that in the realm of what you guys were thinking? I thought so i

thought that would be part of it these you know human instincts that are that they're sort of deprived of i mean that's a big part of the burt and irving relationship i think too is the sort of you know there's two moments between you when you know the first time when when you go to o and d and burt you know sort of touches your hand and Irving sort of gets a little bit freaked out by it and, and, and leaves. And then the second time when you're back at O and D and you move to touch his hand. And then in the moment in six, uh, with that, you know, that Aoife directed so well with between the two of you, when you, you know, in the, in the plant room, that energy. I think if, you know, if you're starved for any kind of, you know in the in the plant room that energy i think if you know if you're starved

for any kind of you know connection these things rituals take on a stronger resonance you know and obviously other people do you know too you know and that's what happens when when you deny someone you, whatever state they're in. Like in a prison story too, same thing. Yeah. It's also interesting that there's a sexual charge to the dance, but the dance also has a dangerous feeling to it. So it's almost like, you know, be careful.

Here you go, but you need to move with caution as well. Yeah. So these dancers, we tried to figure out how to visualize this thing. And we worked with a great choreographer named Taro Rodriguez, who really came up with this very unique dance that sort of embodied all the weirdness that we were looking for. And the masks. Do you want to talk about the masks that they're wearing, Ben? I guess we could. I mean, they're so weird. And so whenever I know, I hadn't watched Eight for a while when I watched it for this. And for a second, I had forgotten that Dylan had the Keir Egan mask waiting for him on the bed, which just not having watched it for a couple of years, we really went for it in terms of just the weirdness of this whole, whatever this ritual was going to be that he ends up, you know, walking out on. Uh, but the masks were made by, um, this artist that we work with on the show named Planko Patikhanov, who is just incredibly talented. And I remember we were shooting, John,

I'm sure you remember this location. We shot the Keir Egan replica house in a real old Victorian house in Yonkers, New York, that is part of the Hudson River Museum. And we shot there, we shot everything we were going to shoot there for the whole series. So, you know, the first, I guess, episode three,

all those scenes we shot there in the same couple of days that we shot for episode eight. And we didn't get to, and I think you probably had gone home by that point, John, but it was the last night we were there. And I think it was like one or two o'clock in the morning that we finally got to shooting the waffle party dance. And the dancers had been waiting all day and we were at the very end of our schedule and we had to get it done. I remember we only had a few takes to get it done and those dancers came in and they nailed it. They were so good and they were so prepared. And it was really that energy of like, okay, we gotta get this.

And they're gonna kick us out of here in half an hour. And it was really, really exciting and fun. Yeah, I was wrapped and I stayed to watch the Waffle Party and it was incredible. They were so on point. It was really impressive. Yeah, I think they were going to kick us out of there because the Gilded Age was shooting there the next day or something. Is that right?

Yeah. I saw a rehearsal of it. Yeah. I remember thinking, wow. Anyway, that was a really fun, weird scene. And watching it, having not watched it for a while, I was like, oh yeah, this is weird and a little bit out there. Should we talk about the egg party? Yes.

I mean, this is basically the celebration for reaching 100%. And Dylan is going to go get his waffle party, but they have a pre a pre waffle party egg mixer social type thing and yes yeah what always makes me laugh about this every time i watch it is that the party consists of the same four people who've just been working together it's just they change the lights they put on some you know some kind of tiki music uh and it's just the four of you having to hang out with each other and yet it is kind of like a party because you like split off into groups but now with eggs and i i am not an egg person do you like eggs uh john i do but i don't like to you know hold them in my hand but they came in too long but i like to like make different you know, hold them in my hand. But they came in. But I like to like make different,

you know, omelets and things like that. And Kat Miller, our props master, she came in with a food stylist and created these crazy

different egg concoctions. It's like giant deviled egg within an egg. Yeah. Scotch eggs. Yeah. Oh my God.

I like deviled eggs. Ah, well, that worked for you for the scene because I was staying as far away as possibleiled eggs. Well, that worked for you for the scene because I was staying as far away as possible during shooting. Yeah. You really don't like eggs. I have no problem.

And Christine will make fun of me about it. I have no problem with eggs in something I eat. It's just the actual, I don't want to eat an egg on its own. Okay. Like you can put it in a cake batter. I'm not, you know, I'm not vegan. I just don't like the actual egg situation but that party is like everybody starts kind of going off into groups which is basically heli and dylan are talking and then irving kind of goes over to the kier egan portrait and you have this kind of uh how would you describe it it's sort of a private

moment where you uh it's like a reverse prayer well you know it? It's sort of a private moment where you... It's like a reverse prayer. You know, it's almost like what you normally go to pray or something, you know. And then I guess I put the egg inside of my, the manual, the book, where all the laws are, the Bible of Lumen, and then crush it. I remember I was holding that egg for a long time you know uh it's part of his sort of rebellion yeah yeah and that that's a turning point for irving and i mean i guess we had the turning point earlier in seven where irving says let's burn this place

to the ground but this is sort of you, the next nail in the coffin where almost directly to Keir Egan's face, you sort of defy him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Keir Egan, I mean, the actor you cast is, that's genius. He's great. I mean, I'm in the show and I saw it and I was like, oh my God, no wonder I was a believer. You know what I mean? He's amazing.

His name is Mark Geller. Yeah, Mark Geller yeah Mark Geller and uh bravo he's so so uh so much a part of the show and so committed to the show

and he's just great um but yeah the waffle party pre-waffle party uh egg social is also where Mark and Helly

kind of connect with each other uh and have sort of a final check in before the plan goes into action yeah it's kind of the first time we let each other know that we have feelings for each other. And this is sort of where everybody sort of does the gut check and says, all right,

let's go and sort of all systems go and are we all still up for this? Let's take a listen to that. Now, look, it's likely we'll all wake up around people, could be driving or skiing, Let's take a listen to that. How long Dylan will be able to give us so we can't get distracted digging into our lives. Right. The mission was the priority. Uh... I probably should have told you guys. But uh, I... I kept this. And there was a part of it that... Well... Our job is to taste free air.

You're a so-called boss, made on the clock that taunts you from the wall. But my friends, the hour is yours. Page 197 slaps. It's so much fun watching Irving now on the other side of this big betrayal have such a shift in tone from those 107 scenes in the closet when he was so just sort of appalled by these burgeoning plans and feelings that everyone was having about Lumen.

So what happens next, Ben? So basically everybody goes, you go to the elevator, you say what could be your goodbye to the group, which is let's find out what's for dinner, which is sort of, I always thought that was kind of Irving's catchphrase, right? Yeah, what's for dinner? What's for dinner? And that scene in the first episode was really one of my favorite scenes when I read that, that made me want to do the show, too, was that whole interchange about breaking down what that meant when Irving says, Hey kids, what's for dinner? Cause it means you're the worst dad in the world. If you're asking your

kids what's for dinner. Anyway, it was so funny. So you all kind of go up and then, you know, Dylan is, uh, left in the control room and security room and has to figure out how to, uh, basically, you know, turn these two knobs that are gonna activate the overtime contingency and it's uh very very tense and we build up to it and then the episode ends right when he hits the switch and we don't know what's yeah it's it's the the uh the cliffhanger before the cliffhanger at one point point, Ben, I think I remember you mentioning, like, is this cliffhanger going to be too suspenseful for us to then follow it with one? The next one needs to be. I remember when we edited the episode, I was like, oh, this is a cliffhanger.

I hope the next cliffhanger tops that cliffhanger because this is like a real cliffhanger. And then, of course, nobody ever really talked about the Episode 8 cliffhanger because they felt the Episode 9 cliffhanger was the real cliffhanger. Yeah, but it's embedded in it. Yes, for sure. For sure. And it's also like I feel like that sort of like basic idea when you do a television show too is like you want people to want to watch the next episode. You want to keep the story engaging hey john i just wanted to ask you you know irving and dylan have such a fun rapport and relationship i just want to ask you about working with zach real quick i have to say

zach is a big surprise i said this to ben too and i know we're not supposed to talk about season two whatever but to see zach sort of blossom, you know, at first I thought, well, he's this really funny guy. And then he has all this other dimension to him as an actor and Dylan as a character. And one of my favorite things is, you know, when he explodes and he bites Milchak. I don't know why, but it makes me laugh so much

because it's a rebellion, you know. But I really think Zach zach is a is like a special guy it's it's hard not to kind of you know really really uh want to put your arms around him you know and uh and i think his character is really interesting you know where he's going and that that ben gave him this opportunity i mean I think there are directors who do that. They see people and they put them there. You know, and the same thing, you know, with Brit. And I think Ben has a great eye for that.

And I have to say, I was really, you know, impressed in, he surprised me in a lot of different ways, pleasantly you know and i think he's gonna you know he's terrific part of the show first of all i think as actors we all have that thing where there's a director who you know is willing to give you a shot in some way but i wasn't giving zach a shot because he's like incredibly you know accomplished actor comedic actor but he you know we've talked about it. He didn't really have material like this that he'd worked on before. But the fun thing for me was

knowing who Zach is and knowing who you are. Like, I've just said, okay, Zach Cherry is going to be sitting next to John Turturro. What's going to happen here? Cause he's, you know, and I think over the course of the eight or nine months of shooting, a lot of great stuff happened there that I never in a million years would have imagined. I love, love the relationship between you two. It's just,

it's a, it's a pleasure really. And that brings us to the end of episode eight of the severance podcast with Ben and Adam. What's for dinner, John? Thanks, man.

This was, yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank that was, that was, uh, so much This was... Yeah. Oh, thank you. That was... So much fun talking to you about this stuff. And next one, we'll talk about the Knicks, and we'll see where we are at that point.

Okay. The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions. If you like the show, be sure to rate and review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or your other podcast platform of choice. Our executive producers are Barry Finkel, Henry Malofsky, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Leah Reese Dennis. The show is produced by Zandra Ellen and Naomi Scott. This episode was mixed and mastered by Chris Basil.

We have additional engineering from Javi Crucis and Davey Sumner. Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey. Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LeVay, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff. And the team at Red Hour, John Lesher, Carolina Pesikov, Jean-Pablo Antonetti, Martin Valderutten, Ashwin Ramesh, Maria Noto, John Baker, and Oliver Ager.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management. We also had additional production help from Gabrielle Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management. We also had additional production help from Gabrielle Lewis, Ben Goldberg, Stephen Key, Kristen Torres, Emanuel Hapsis, Marie-Alexa Cavanaugh, and Melissa Slaughter. I'm Adam Scott. I'm Ben Stiller. And we will see you next time. Hey, Adam. Yeah? Is your experience at work a bit dysfunctional lately? I don't know. I think it's...

Okay, I'll take that as a yes. Your team could undergo a highly controversial surgical procedure that would mercifully sever any and all memories of that work experience from your home lives. Or you could try Confluence by Atlassian. Oh my god, well if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian. Confluence is the connected workspace where teams can collaborate and create like never before. Where teams have easy access to the relevant pages and resources their projects call for, while discovering important contexts they didn't even know they needed.

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