The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Back to Business ft. Kyle Dubas & Bryan Crawford

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Hockey is back, and so is The Sheet with Jeff Marek — now airing weekdays at 1 ET exclusively on the Daily Faceoff YouTube channel. To kick off the new season, Jeff sits down with Pittsburgh Penguins President of Hockey Operations and General Manager, Kyle Dubas, for a wide-ranging conversation. They dive into the Penguins’ rookie games, Sidney Crosby’s status in Pittsburgh, the decision to bring back Marc-André Fleury on a PTO, the role of analytics in today’s NHL, and even the story behind the now-famous “two phone photo.”Later in the episode, Jeff is joined by OHL Commissioner Bryan Crawford to break down the league’s newly announced standards, the evolving NCAA/CHL relationship and the impact of charging NCAA scouts to attend games, the FloHockey broadcast deal, and what it all means for junior hockey moving forward.Tune in to stay ahead of the season and get the insight you can’t find anywhere else. Don’t forget to subscribe to the Daily Faceoff YouTube channel so you never miss a moment of The Sheet!#TheSheet #JeffMarek #KyleDubas #PittsburghPenguins #SidneyCrosby #MarcAndreFleury #PenguinsHockey #NHLSeason #DailyFaceoff #OHL #BryanCrawford #JuniorHockey #CHL #NCAA #HockeyNews #HockeyTalk #HockeyPodcastShout out to our sponsors!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼 Simply Spiked: https://www.simplyspiked.ca/en-CAReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Okay, welcome to it. Welcome to season two here of the program. We are now back officially full-time. Zach, did you know that? Yes, it's true. We are now back full-time. Even though this week you and I are going to St. John and are going to miss the show on Thursday

and be live at a very special location on Friday. in advance of the St. John Seedog's home opener. Speaking of junior hockey, Brian Crawford, is going to be stopping by OHL Commissioner in a couple of moments. First of all, thanks to everyone who paid attention to what we were doing in the off season in the summer. We tried to keep the feed as hot as possible while still also trying to take care of things like,

I don't know, seeing your family, seeing your friends, getting some sort of a vacation in. Also, shooting the On the Road series. Episode 1 is now available at our daily face-off YouTube channel. That is first of, I believe, six interviews. This one was Sam Gagne. Now of the Ottawa Senators, player development group,

former NHLer and the conceptual genius, as we'd like to call him, behind Muskoka hockey. More on what that is as part of the video. And I'm sure you're going to hear us talk a lot about Muskoka hockey and the not too distant future here on this program. In the meantime, once again, thanks so much for joining me here today. It's a real pleasure and privilege to be part of this great team that we have here at Daily Face Off. And there's going to be sort of new announcements about what we're doing with this show,

some tweaks to the way the whole thing is presented and hopefully make it easier and more accessible for you to consume, whether it's on podcast, whether it's here if you're watching live on YouTube. So we're in a constant process of evolution here with the program and glad to have you aboard with us. Some things do remain the same. Before we get to some of the elements on today's show, we start on a sad note. Eddie Jockman, for newer fans, that might not be a name that is relevant to you. But in the history of hockey, he was one of the best goaltenders of all time. The Rangers announcing today that Eddie Jockeman has passed away.

and when you think of the New York Rangers and you think of net minders, it's always been an embarrassment of riches, whether it's, well, right now, Igor Scherkin, before him, Henrik Lundquist, and Mike Richter, and for an older demographic, when you say, Rangers, netminders, they think of Ed Jockman, who passes away at the age of 86. Just a couple of quick notes here. Was a supreme athlete, he turned down athletic scholarships, the U.S. colleges, one for baseball, and one for football,

and one for football was involved and before his hockey career really got underway in a horrible accident where a stove in his house essentially exploded and burned pretty much the entire lower half of his body and had to work his way back into playing net. It became a big-time tandem with the New York Rangers in the 60s with Caesar Maniago, who himself was a really cool gold editor.

I always love Caesar Maniago stance. and that was the battery for the New York Rangers and then Cesar Maniago one day made the unfortunate cue the Wally Pip references here of pulling himself out of a game and that essentially began a nine-year run of Ed Jockman as the starting netminder for the New York Rangers

and we'll fire a picture up here that old-time fans will certainly know about and this is Eddie Jockeman in his return to the garden so again one of the most popular athletes that New York has ever seen certainly one of the most popular athletes the Rangers have ever had. In 1975, the Rangers decide to move on from Eddie Jockeman.

They put him on waivers. The Detroit Red Wings claim him. And then, I think it was three days later, maybe four days later, after being claimed by the Detroit Red Wings, Ed Jockeman finds his way back to the garden. And these are some of the scenes from the National Anthem where everybody cheered for Eddie Jockeman, bringing the gold tender to tears.

it is one of the most emotional moments easily in Rangers history and certainly in NHL history as well. He was one of the greats. He will be missed. He will be mourned. By the way, as a side note, when the Detroit Red Wings decided to move on from Eddie Jockeman, the goaltender who took his place was Jim Rutherford,

now of the Vancouver Canucks. Condolences to the family and the friends of the late Ed Jockeman. who passed away at the age of 86, one of the Ranger greats. Okay, to today's program, and once again, thanks so much for joining me here on the maiden voyage of season two. We kick it off reminding you that Fanduel, our friends, daily outline, powered by Fanduel, make every moment more with North America's number one sports book, Fanduel. And coming up on the program today, now the lion's share of the show, the biggest serving on the plate today, will be an interview that I did earlier this morning

with Kyle Dubus, general manager of the Pittsburgh Penguins, a lot to go over some of the obvious stuff and some pretty obscure things as well. There's a lot in this one for newer fans, for older fans, and just some interesting tidbits, including, if you've ever wondered, you know that picture of Dubus when he's got the two phones? Who is he talking to? That answer coming up in moments here on the program. Brian Crawford is the commissioner of the OHL. Their season kicks off later on this week with two games on.

Thursday. A lot to talk to him about, most notably with the CHL NCAA situation, how that relates to the Ontario Hockey League and we'll batter around a couple of different ideas for what to do now that maybe we'll see some 19-year-olds as well joining the American Hockey League as soon as next season. Things with Caldubis will talk about. Cindy Crosby, the Mark Andre Fleury PTO as well. Plenty to get to, this is a lengthy interview and we wanted just to give it to you, give you the whole thing. because there's sort of information pucks along the way. So here's Kyle Dubus, the general manager of the Pittsburgh Penguins,

commenting on a lot of things you would expect, as are the headline issues around the Pittsburgh Penguins, and some things you probably didn't expect to hear Kyle Dubus talk about. Here's Dubus on the sheet from earlier today. Kyle, since so much of the conversation, and by the way, thanks so much for doing this, but since so much of the conversation around you has always been about how young Kyle Dubus is I want to start the interview today by making you feel old. All right.

You ready for this? Sure. Kyle Clifford retired. And all of our viewers and listeners, just so they know, Kyle Clifford, when you were an agent so many years ago with Uptown, he was your first client. First of all, I want to get that story. And second of all, does that make Kyle Dubus feel old?

Kyle Clifford has retired. It's been like a rapid number of them. So my first year scouting for the Sioux, Andrew Campbell. We picked him in the 15th round. He was from my area. He's an assistant coach now. He was with Hamilton and Bramford in the O'HL, and now he's with Belleville. And then Jake Muzzin, the second year I was scouting, was our first round pick for the Sioux.

And he's retired, and now Kyle Clifford is also retired. So Jeff Carter retired, he was, he and I are the same age, and he played, you know, he was, I was obviously the first year when he was with the Sioux. And then the last year here in Pittsburgh. So, yeah, starting to get there. What do you remember from recruiting? I want to get to Penguins stuff here. I'm just so fascinated with this one here. What do you remember from a young Kyle Dubus recruiting a young Kyle Clifford?

That was the first. I mean, so if I was going to stay in hockey and working, those were the full-time avenues to do it. Otherwise, it was going to be returning to the Sioux, finding another part-time job and working for the team part-time in the office and not scout. outing anymore. So I elected to go down that road of working in the agency business. I didn't particularly think it was for me in the end, but it was a great number of years. And Kyle Clifford was actually the first ever recruitment meeting that we went on, Don Reynolds and I. And so it was, and we met with he and his parents, John and Debbie, at their house and air. And they called us a few days later and said that they were going to commit to to have us represent

them. And so it formed a great relationship that goes to this day with Kyle and was able to watch him grow, watch him win with L.A. and help them win. And then we obviously acquired him later on twice in Toronto. So that was, and he added kind of what we needed in terms of some toughness and competitiveness in Toronto at that time. So it was great to be able to now see him retire, have a family. And now he's, you know, he's in the development business and working with young players and so it's it's great to see uh one more log on the age fire he has a 2014 that plays in the gt hl i don't know if you want to throw that one in there for a little bit more spice a little more salt on the wound but but there we go yeah um okay so uh as i'm talking

to you right now you're in buffalo uh for the prospects uh camp particularly rough one uh against the clumbus blue jackets prospects um first of all just an initial evaluation i know this is like super early, but has anything caught your eye so far? Well, I think we have a very young group of players here by virtue of the fact that we had 12, 12 of the 13 players we drafted in June are here at the camp, it usually doesn't work that way between college and European players and, you know, who are with their, you know, either on campus or their seasons are starting. So, yeah, I think some of the other groups are a little bit older, bigger and stronger by virtue of being older. And so it's been a great

opportunity to see how our guys battle in that environment and I think a great learning and development tool for them. The encouraging part is that some of the guys that we've been expecting to step up have. And then we have other players that aren't as heralded by virtue of the fact they were never drafted

and signed NHL deals at a junior like in Avery Hayes who you would know from his days in Hamilton and Peterborough helping those teams win. He's been exceptional here. So we've got one more game that's, you know, they'll be ongoing here against Buffalo, and then we'll head back and get ready to go for camp.

But I think it's a great test for the young guys coming in here and, you know, learning how to how to acquit themselves against other high-end prospects in a really competitive atmosphere. I want to get to Fleury and Crosby and all these other Penguins issues right now, but a little bit more on prospects and development. I know that one of the key planks for you, and we see, you know, the evidence just by reading the Penguins website, that develop. It's a huge issue, and you've gone sort of out the door and around the block to beef up that department.

It seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong here, it looks to me like there's sort of a race here to try to get as many prospects ready for the NHL as quickly as possible so they can sort of share in the experience of playing with Sidney Crosby or watching Sidney Crosby or being around Sidney Crosby. is that accurate? I wouldn't say that it's a race to get them into the NHL, Jeff, because we have to do it efficiently. If we're racing to meet a deadline that we don't really know what it is, we don't know how long Sid is going to play for or how long he's going to play for at this level. I wouldn't put a timeline.

There's anybody I would never put a timeline on? It's probably him. And so if we were to rush these prospects along and sacrifice, what's best for them in the long range, just to say that they played alongside of Sid. I think that is not in the best interest of those prospects or of the Pittsburgh Penguins. Our goal every day is to as efficiently as possible and as urgently as possible maximize where each of these young guys are at. Last year we had two players, two young players at the end of the year,

earn their way up in Rutger Magrorty and Vili Koiunan. And this year in camp, we expect them to continue to push, but we also expect that, you know, the next wave of guys, I'd mentioned Avery Hayes. I would put Tristan Bros in that bucket. Owen Pickering came up last year by necessity and played very well for a long stretch. Now can he make the team out of camp and stay in the NHL?

But for us, it's all about doing, you know, what's best to get us back into contention? And, you know, our goal is we have some elite players that have won multiple times in Pittsburgh, and they, by virtue of being in Pittsburgh for now heading into their 20th season together, I think they have a great deal of knowledge and wisdom and experience that they can pass onto those guys. So I think it'd be crazy not to try to get them around those players as often as we can, but we can't rush them and sacrifice their long-range potential in development to do that. So it's trying to thread the needle on it, but in the end

deferring to what's best in the long range for each of those players. Okay, let me try to go at this in a sort of a different way here. In this generation of hockey, there's been a lot of sort of myths that have been broken. One of the biggest ones is, oh, you can't teach touch. I remember hearing that growing up, you probably heard that growing up. Goal scorers are born. They're not developed and all that. And now we realize that's a falling. We all grew up believing it. But when it comes to development, and I sort of frame this one very specific way with you

really beefing up your development with the Pittsburgh Penguins and the development department do you think it's possible you used the word of fish in a second ago i think that's a big one do you think it's possible to speed up development once upon a time was like oh just let them ripen all these green bananas just let them ripen in time they'll be ready is there a way to speed that up well i i think the term that i when i first came from the oh hell and was fortunate enough to get to work in the nchel the the the the term that was used was either overripen or overcook them like yeah you're never going to regret leaving them in in the american for an extra year.

Detroit, Holland. And it's great when you have, it's great when you have Eisenman Fedorov. Yeah. How come Hitler can't find a spot? How come Filipa can't find a spot? Well, look at the roster. Exactly. So it's nowadays with the salary cap changes and, you know, the salary cap itself.

And then I think there's, there's a, like to me, there's two. two things. There's the salary cap and how that's changed everything. And then number two is the way that development in all of you sports has really become much more regimented and, you know, it's a massive business onto itself. So the players, you know, even if I go from 2014 in my first year in Toronto, going back to my time in the Sioux and seeing the guys come in there, they're just so much more ready. Now I have my own son who's eight going through all of this and I compare it to my own experience when I was that age and it's it's uh it's night and day um the the the amount of precision and and um detail that's put into development beginning

much early so the so the players themselves I think are able to to be ready a little bit sooner just by virtue of the way that the landscape has changed developmentally and on the development side for us I mean we have Tom Costopoulos who reports it to Jason Speza and You know, we've, it's been a deep investment for us since the day that I got here and it was the department that I was tasked with running in Toronto from 2014 to 18. And to me, it's, it's just so pivotal because you can get so much out of these guys if you're as organized and regimented as possible and you make it thoroughly enjoyable as a process for the players. And so I do think there's something to these younger guys. It's only, you can, it's further evidence by guys coming into the league, you know, and being able to. to step in and play and play well right away.

It's not everybody, but I just think it's a little bit quicker of a track than it was in the past. You know, I brought up Crosby for a specific reason around development because I kind of see Crosby as pivotal for whatever is going to be next for the Pittsburgh Penguins, and when those kids get there, those kids get there. But I remember having a conversation with Colby Armstrong once, and I said, give me a good story about Cid, like one sort of eye-opening story. And Colby said, I remember one of my first practice.

is with Pittsburgh, we skated, and then I went in the gym, and there's Crosby, and he's lifting heavy, and he's working harder than everybody else. And Colby said, I went over to him, and I said, like, Sid, is there another league that I don't know about that you're trying to get to? Like, is there a league higher than the NHL that you're working towards trying to get to here? From what you've seen with Crosby, like, I always say that Crosby should be in the conversation for the Hart Trophy every year because of, by definition of the trophy, the standard that he sets for whatever team he's on, everybody has.

has to try to meet it or you're a failure on that team. What do kids get from being around Sidney Crosby? I think in seeing it, so it's interesting. Every year-round development camp, Sid is still in Pittsburgh and just organically, he's out on the ice working in the mornings. And all three of the years that I've been here, what tends to happen is the players will, you know, you come into the rank, the younger guys we just drafted and they'll say, oh, Sid's out on the ice and they'll go out and watch.

the amount of work he's putting in in the first week of July. And I think the awe and the admiration, it doesn't need, they don't need to see that to have it. And then I think what seeing him and how much work he puts into his craft does, is it makes them acutely aware of how much work they're going to put in if they're going to come even remotely close to that level, which is not overly attainable. overly attainable. But you see a player who just turned 38 years old, continuing every day to go to the rink, put in his work in a very specific and detailed way. And even though he's 38,

he's accomplished all that he's accomplished, I think the way that I view him is that he's put, he has deemed himself still in development. So trying to find any edge that he can to help himself and thus help the team win. So you could have a number of ex-teammates. come on and tell a lot of stories about their own experience with him, but for us to see the impact that it has on the organization, our young players has been massive, and it's part of what makes him as special as he is at his age, and showing no signs of slowing down. You know, when you see the stories, because the Crosby conversation has now been happening for a while, and now even, you know, Pat Pryson has made mention of it, too, and Crosby's situation,

I think it's overly simplistic, even though I'm guilty of saying it myself, that this is maybe that internal battle between loyalty and competition for Sidney Crosby. But the conversation right now is, will he or won't he? And I've always maintained that that's a conversation that needs to be initiated by Crosby and not Kyle Dubus. How is the Crosby situation with you right now? yeah to me right now i know that everyone will probably want a much deeper answer but because of who it is and because of you know being three days away from training camp my view of it jeff and this won't change throughout is that we can't spend any time worrying about it sidney crosbie is the captain of the pittsburgh penguins um he is one of the all-time best players in the history of the league

And, you know, so for us having discourse around transactions or responding to what different things that are said in the media or, you know, where different media members would like him move to or different things of that nature is a distraction that with the task at hand and knowing what that task was when I came to Pittsburgh in 2023, we just can't get distracted with it. So I don't spend any time thinking about it or worrying about it at all, even though I know that lots of other people do because he's Sid, and he's extremely special and means a lot to everybody in hockey. But our full focus goes back to one of your previous questions, which is about how are we going to build the next wave of Pittsburgh Penguins teams that can contend for championships and do so perennially? And any other time that we spend focusing on anything else that's beyond our control,

I think takes away from that. So our focus remains on continuing the job that we've signed up for, which is to build the team back into a contender. And we don't put any timelines on that because we're trying to do that as urgently as we can. So we haven't come out and said it's an X amount of years plan because we talked really about development and what younger players are capable of

and we're trying to find every edge we can to get back into that mix in our division and then within the league. When you see all the pieces and hear the conversations, is it annoying or do you say, you know what, that's just the cost of doing business and that's the life of a GM in the NHL? I think that's the business that we've chosen. And I don't begrudge.

I don't begrudge anything. of it. I think it's it's a player that people have a deep amount of interest in. And I understand why people want to see the all great players contend and win every year of their whole life because they're special. They mean a lot to them. And so, you know, I don't think anything of it. I don't get to, you know, too hot or cold about any, any of that. It's beyond our control and what people are, you know, people have a narrative that they want to, they want to right. And I respect that they all have a job to do. So it doesn't have any negative impact on me or on us. I remember having a conversation, and Kelly's talked about this a number of times,

having a conversation with Kelly Rudy and the first time that it's sort of dawned on him that GMs talk about everybody always. He said he was having a conversation with his general manager in LA Rogi Vashon. He said, like, you know, how many times you, you know, talk to other GMs? And he said, I talk every, every single day. He goes, you talk about all of our players and said, yeah. He said, do you talk about me? He said, yeah. I talk about everybody.

It's my job to talk about everybody. And Kelly said that was an eye-opening moment for him as a player. I think one of the things that people are always curious about, I know I certainly am, like, do you have a sense of what you can get for just about everybody on your roster? Like, do you have like, the marketplace read is always interesting. And I know it's changing and it's not fixed. But do you have a sense of, okay, you want to make a move with player X, you know exactly what the market for that player is at all times? Is that accurate?

I think probably a different way to look at. And I don't know if it's right or wrong, but it's trying to know what every team's needs are or what their needs could be as they get into the year. So especially at this time a year, it's trying to know what the battles teams are going to have in camp or what may become available in camp and then staying really close to the information on injuries,

especially if there are key players on their team and then knowing if player X underperforms in camp early in the season or if a player gets injured, do we have the types of players that they're going to want? It's also knowing where those teams are at relative to their budgets versus the cap or internally. And then what the pressure is on those teams in their market or from ownership,

to contend or to rebuild and different things of that nature, Jeff. So it's trying to know all of that and have as good information as possible. And that comes from, you know, our others in management. It comes from our pro scouts who are out in the ranks every day, kind of trying to gather that. And I really think that job is so important to have as great information as possible and then be able to use that to help do what's best for our team. So you kind of know the types of players' teams are looking.

for and then you have your own view of what types of players we have and what they're about and then try to act on it that way. Do you have a theory on why this was a particularly quiet summer? I was sort of glibly said like, you know, there's not going to be any offer sheets because the penguins have all the draft picks, so no one has the capital to offer sheet anybody. Do you have a thought on why this, we all thought this was going to be firewaving again. We thought this was going to be fireworks this summer.

It hasn't been. Right. I think the offer sheet part, the thing about it is with the cap going up, if you're going to, if you're going to make it go down that path, and it was obviously very successful for St. Louis in the summer of 2024, if you're going to go down that path, I think you have to, you have to think that you have the team is, you have information of the team is either not going to match or they can't. And I think this year, if you look around, there are very few teams that have RFAs that would be of interest to groups that the team that had them wouldn't have matched on you had some major trades around the draft and guys signed longer term and then you know last year we made a three trades deep into August this year we made two deep into July and since then it's been relatively it's been relatively quiet I think teams most teams still have some degree of cap space

so there hasn't been the rush to try to move guys out that way and I think that that That is probably, you know, I don't know if it'll be the norm summer to summer, but that's just, that's been my view this year is that there, there hasn't been the pressure exerted by the cap being flat for the last several years that exists this summer. So even teams that are primarily squeezed have a great deal of, of space. And then the other part is the CBA information, you know, in learning a few weeks ago what was going to go in this year and next, I think it forced teams to. probably act with a little bit more hesitation, not knowing, you know, what the rulings were LTIR playoff cap and how that would impact them. So you wouldn't want to do anything in August or late July or August without knowing exactly what the season was going to look like, especially if you're a contending team.

You wouldn't want to handcuff yourself and limit your chances to win by making a move midway through the summer as much as I'm sure fans and media begrudge that. You needed something to talk about, Kyle. When you saw what was in the new CBA, my first thought was, if I'm a general manager, I'm feeling like, okay, I'm playing a card game here. And now someone just inserted a new deck of cards into all of it. How did it feel to you? I thought for number one, I think it was, it's great that the league and the NHLPA were able to come together and get something done so quickly. especially with new leadership at the NHLPA with Marty Walsh and Ron Hainesie

and the other group that's had great experience there. But, you know, so it's nice to know that there's going to be no breaks in the action here for the next several years. And I know that they've done a lot of work on international hockey and making that a reality. So just to have something done has been great. I look at it. I probably would have looked at it very differently. had this happened during my time in Toronto, where we were, you know,

rate up close to the cap right now, we have a lot of, we have a lot of cap space and we have a lot of future flexibility. And I think that will come to be very beneficial for us as we navigate through the next several years. But I probably don't have the same amount of urgency now, you know, in Pittsburgh to react to the new CBA. And we have a chance to really watch and see how it takes hold here in the short run the next couple of months in this season and because of the flexibility or the agility we have relative to the cap or financially. So, you know, I think the league did a great job of making us prepared for what may come in and communicating with us.

So it allowed us to digest it and try to forecast it out ourselves as well. Mark Andre Fleury and the PTO and the game against Columbus, Listen, Mark Andre Fleurie for the longest time has always been a feel-good story. You don't have to be a Penguins fan or a Vegas fan or a Minnesota fan to love Mark Andre Fleury. He's one of those athletes where, you know, I always say I don't cheer for teams. I cheer for people, and he's one of those people that I think everybody cheers for. How did this one come together, Kyle? I think we had Mark Andre at the worlds.

And last year, late October, he came to Pittsburgh and he had announced that it had been his final year. And just the reaction of the fans, and that was in early October, or sorry, late October. And to see how much he'd been to the fans, because of who he is as a person, obviously the success he had in Pittsburgh, he holds every goaltending record in Pittsburgh, three Stanley Cups, making one of the biggest saves that I can ever remember in game seven nine seconds to preserve it a two one win and so just in trying to think of the best way

especially someone of his personality and how much he loves hockey and the enthusiasm that he has trying to figure out the best way for the fans to say goodbye one last time and there's always the one-day contract thing but then in seeing how much fun he had playing at the world championships

and how well he played at the World Championship. I just in conversations with Mark and with Alan Walsh, it just struck as a good idea for the fan base and for Flower. And we talked about it throughout the summer, and then all credit to him, he jumped on board and wants to do it. So I think it will be a very special night for the fans in Pittsburgh, for the city of Pittsburgh. And I think also it's unique in that.

there's still a number of players on our team that have played with Flower in Pittsburgh and won championships with him in 2009, 16, and 17. So it's just a unique opportunity because it's a unique person. And it should be a very special and exciting night for Mark and his family, but also for the penguins and the fans in Pittsburgh. I know everywhere you've gone, Illinois has been important to you. mean, you know, even more so than ever, that Mark Andre Fleury has a home in Pittsburgh, perhaps even with the Pittsburgh Penguins organization. Would that door be open?

I think the door is always open for Mark. At the same time, I think, you know, he's got a young family and talking to him. And that's his story to tell, not for me, but, you know, I think prioritizing that has been the most important thing and you know they've got young kids that are just you know going through school elementary school and so like that'll be number one but i think for all of these guys i think the alumni part that you touched on is vitally important and how we handle alumni and the players that have carried the organization through any number of years and the ups and downs that every franchise go through goes through it's it's vitally important to to me that our organization is treating those people who've given so much to the organization as well as

possible. But when it comes to Mark Andre Fleury, he'll always have a place here if he wants it, no doubt. A couple of sort of winks at Toronto here. I've always maintained that, and I think a lot of us have at the same time. Every team got stung by COVID, obviously. Perhaps the Maple Leafs more so than most because of the nature of the contracts and how they were poised to age before the flat cap came in. But the other one, and I'm glad you mentioned his name earlier.

And I don't think this gets talked about enough. I really think that the Jake Muzin injury hurt the Toronto Maple Leafs more than anybody talks about. Agree or disagree? Well, yes. I mean, I think every team deals with it, Jeff. So I don't think there's really any excuse. We didn't get it done to the level that our potential dictated in the end that, you know, that falls on me in my role there

and not being able to do the things that would push the team over the top. But, you know, Muz got injured against Columbus in 2020 in the bubble in the first game. And then missed game six and seven against Montreal in 21. And then, you know, it was, you know,

in 22-23 season, his career ended. So he was someone, and brought in specifically for defensive purposes and to kill penalties and be the guy that could play against the other team's best players. And when he was healthy and at his best, he added a tremendous element to our group in Toronto. And, you know, we definitely missed them and tried to do our best to fill in. And that was the acquisition of Jake McCabe at the deadline in 2003 from Chicago. But we sure would have liked to have had both.

I just look at Muzin and I say there are so few players that played like him and brought what he did to your team. And I know that John Tavares was your captain when you were the manager in Toronto. But the more people that I talked to, like, Muzon, Jake Muzon, had a major leadership role and position on that squad. It wasn't just what he did on the ice. Well, Muzz had won. and mus is also a tremendous glue guy and he's a little bit old school as well so he was able to you know i think pass on his lessons very openly to a lot of the younger players that came in and then you know he just the way that he played was something that we had desperately

needed and but he you know in terms of best way i would term as as i said was just a just a glue guy that connected everybody together. And so when you lose those types, it hurts. But that's, teams deal with it every year in the playoffs. And you have to, you have to adapt. And we didn't, you know, we weren't well-suited enough to do that. And that falls on me. Okay, let me go on a little fishing trip here with you.

One of, one of all of our favorite pictures is two phone dubus. That is one of, that is one of the greats. do you remember which two conversations you were having on those two phones i think that was vancouver draft in 2019 although i'm not 100% sure well it was it was a call at from on the like the landline at the desk at the draft from a team about a trade and then the cell phone call was one of our draft picks that we had just chosen michael kester he was a minnesota high school player, went to University of Minnesota. We picked him, I think, in the fifth round.

And we hadn't been able to get a hold of him yet to welcome him to the team. And he was basically the only player we hadn't gotten a hold of. And I was just, there was no trade that was going to happen. So we were just trying to, like, hang up. And I saw him call and I didn't want the call to go to voicemail again because we hadn't talked to him yet. And so for like, for a brief second, there's, I'm just trying to get the other general manager off the phone and reach up and grab my cell phone and yeah it wasn't it wasn't

there wasn't two conversations happening at the same time it's just the way that it looked and I think that's a lot of that's what people equate the job to a lot of time so it created a good picture that you'll be able to keep forever if uh if I leave enough awkward silence right now will you tell us who the the trade was I I don't during the draft you get so many that are at that stage in the draft it usually would you trade me your six this year for six next year or the inverse of that and there's so many of them that there's it wasn't a very memorable one i don't honestly remember um i want to ask you about dan muses a couple more here with you and i know you got to get to the the game here in the buffalo prospect tournament um dan muses i

don't know that we read into you you've made you know a couple of coaching hires in your time as a as a manager in the NHL. Sheldon Keith was the first time NHL head coach, Dan Mews, first time head coach for the Pittsburgh Penguins. I don't know that two is enough to detect a theme,

but why is Dan Mews the right coach for the Pittsburgh Penguins right now? When we went through the process, Jeff, what specifically, and I've said this since the hire, what specifically we were looking for was we were looking for somebody that could get the most out of young players,

get the most out of our, our veteran guys at the same time, it had a deep appreciation and understanding for development for players at all stages, deeply organized, great communication. And we went through a very thorough process and interviewed a lot of people in the first stage of things in May and then brought a number of people into Pittsburgh to interview in person late May and then made our decision to go with Dan. When I got into it, obviously, I knew Sheldon before as I'd worked with him in Su-Saint-Marie and with the Marley's. And I didn't know Dan at all.

I took recommendation from a few people that I trusted. He was a guy that they thought I would really like and should have a conversation with. And then after the first conversation, it was clear that it would, someone that I wanted to get to know more. And then by the end, I felt that he was just the right fit for us. Because what specifically we were looking for was somebody that could install certain standards and develop all of our players at all ages, get the most out of our young and older players alike, and also be somebody that could guide us through this stage

of our organization, but also come through on the other side that had a history of head coaching success. And so if you look at Dan, it's a, you know, he's taken a long journey to get to become a head coach in the National Hockey League. He hasn't really skipped any steps ever from college assistant coach to USHL head coach, NHL assistant, back to the U.S. program, and then back to NHL assistant. And just in talking to the players that had played for him,

the younger players would all say he held him highly accountable, was very disciplined, but also very innovative. And there may have been times when they didn't like him when they were on his teams, but in looking back, they learned as much or more from him than than anybody. And then in talking to some of the older players that had played from in the NHL in Nashville and New York, it was clear that he commanded a great deal of respect through his preparation, intelligence and putting them in good spots to succeed. So if you look at he was in charge of the penalty kill in both spots and across all of his years in the league,

they've performed at a very high level. And so when we took all that and then brought him in and he was around our staff, it just became very clear that this was probably the best choice for where we're at and where we want to be both. And it's been, you know, we haven't played any games yet, so we haven't won or lost any, and the emotions of the year haven't come into it. But I think just with the staff that Dan assembled with Mike Stothers and Todd Nelson as veteran guys that have seen mostly everything in hockey

and then younger, you know, two younger coaches and Richard Clune and Nick Benino, it's just a great mix of staff to have in terms of experiences. and, you know, intellects and different things of that nature. So I'm excited about the staff, and I think they're in it for the long haul. They know where we're at and where we're going, and to see them kind of get at it here has been a lot of fun. One quick analytics question.

I was, it's always intimate. Everything is a sort of process of evolution. You sit on the shoulders of knowledge that came before, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. From the quote unquote early days. And, you know, the Oilers blogosphere, you know, going back to the lockout of 205 is just celebrated their 20-year anniversary and made a big deal about it online. Rightfully so. Some people from that group have gone on to become part of Stanley Cup winning organizations and populate various front offices around the NHL. When you look at the information under that umbrella that's been gathered for 20 years.

Like I've always been told by people in analytics departments, don't put too much. much value in expected goals, we're past that. That's the public model, but our models are well past that. What do you look at and say, you know what, we're past this stat or we're past this way of measuring hockey players and hockey games? Well, I think the major difference now is that the teams have such a massive information advantage over the public because of the tracking data, which doesn't necessarily become public in a way that can be manipulated or tested or used to break down different

you create and break down different metrics Jeff so whereas if you know you go back and I just think like you know for me 2009 10 11 especially going back to the Sioux and trying to find different advantages there that we could use in player acquisition or evaluating our team, and you very often felt that those types of places, and you know, you think of the, you know, the writings of like Eric Tulski or Tyler Delo or, you know, a number of people all throughout, like just to name two that have gone on to work in management, one being a general manager and, well, coincidentally, his assistant. So he, you know, you, in those days, the information advantage, I think, went to,

to the public because they were taking information and testing it themselves. It was readily available to everybody and then using it to make strong forecasts or really change the way that you could, you thought traditionally about hockey. And I think that was very beneficial. Now, you know, you referenced it the information that the teams have because of the tracking, the player and puck tracking data and our ability to house that information with our own R&D departments. our analytics departments is it's just so massive over what the what the public can can do so yeah there are times when there's stuff written publicly where it's just way off from what we have and rather than get you know angry about it or anything of that nature it's just you have to remember you have you have much more information at your disposal than than people publicly baseball has kind of gone to where you can like i can pull up and and see you know anything i want um you know on baseball seven

or a savant and hockey i'm sure will one day get there i know there's the edge um website but you can't really i don't know that you can pull everything off of there and be able to work with it uh yourself and um i'm sure one day we will get there and then you'll see extraordinarily smart people take that and do things that the teams haven't even thought of as well um and i think that's what makes sports great there are people who are brilliant that are not working in the sport that may just become intrigued by something and change the way that it's done as it moves ahead. I'm glad you mentioned your time with the Sioux and very primitive, quote-unquote, analytics. Was it your group sales manager he would bring on the road to track zone entries?

I remember, like, the Greyhouser at the forefront of all this, and it's like, yeah, the guy doing group ticket sales is counting zone entries for Sheldon game. So it's not a big budget operation. the end of the school. So we, the only way to have people, you know, everything he'd be tracked, had to be tracked, you know, now you can go on sport logic, you can pull up everything you want about the Steve Greyhounds and the, you know, the Brantford Bulldogs and the Prince George Cougars and whoever, it's, it's all, it's all right there at your disposal for a, for a fee. But back then, we, there was no sport logic. There was, there might have, it would have been

very primitive. So our only way to track even, so all we got from the league was shots, goals assists plus minus and the OHL didn't even track individual player shots at that time the Quebec league did and uh that so if we were going to get that information and be able to analyze it and use it we had to have people internally do it so we hired Tyson Enfield um he was our ticket sales manager and would go on go to every game and track everything live and then And we hired also then Matt Rodell the next year. And Matt is still with the Dallas Stars in a prominent role for Jim Nill on the data and analytics side. And so we had two people, but their full-time job was in sales, ticketing or partnerships.

We only had, we had, you know, we only had four or five people in the office at most, including me. So we had to do whatever it took to collect the information and help our team. And Sheldon was very open to it and it was helpful for us as we kind of, you know, the team built itself out. And those were, those were great memories. It was a lot of fun. I think working in major junior hockey is, it's so great and awesome. And, you know, it's always something I look back on extremely fondly. and I still watch every two Greyhound games,

so I'm not that far removed. Those were the days. You've been generous with your time, as you always were. Always are. Kyle, thanks so much for this. Good luck for the rest of the Prospeys camp, and good luck this season. Perfect.

Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate it. That was a lot there. Kyle Dubas, the general manager of the Pittsburgh Penguins. else grab the godfather drop by the way anybody else noticed that one this is the business we chose still in a trilogy of movies that has spawned line after line after line for me personally and that's why i kind of giggled at it uh that's my favorite this is the business we chose i always catch myself by the way as an aside whenever i complain about anything with my job or

my career i always catch myself and remind myself of that line from the godfather This is the business we chose. Anyhow, a lot in there. If you want to go back and watch or listen, that'll be made available shortly to you. Thanks to Kyle Dubas for making himself available for a really long time. That was like a 41-minute interview, maybe even longer. So thanks to Kyle Dubus, Jim, and the Pittsburgh Penguins.

And thanks to the Penguins for making him available as well. I know he kind of did like a mini podcast tour in the summer. He was on with Dimitri Filipovich, was on the Cam and Strip. podcast as well. So hey man, when you start to see managers popping up and, you know, prospects, camps going, that means that the NHL season is just around the corner, as is junior hockey that season, specifically for the OHL, for the purposes of our next guest here coming up in a couple of seconds. That's on the horizon. I'm going to welcome the OHL Commissioner here to the program in a couple of moments. Thanks to, again, thanks to Dubus, thanks to the

for stopping by. Still a lot to get to today. I want to make a couple of announcements, and we'll do these as we go throughout the week as well. I'm going to be joined by Greg Wisnski tomorrow and Wednesday. Greg is going to become even more of a regular, and he's in the chat right now.

I think he's still in the chat right now. Anyhow than he was before. He's going to be on for a couple of days every week. I believe we're targeting Tuesdays and Thursdays for him. Brian Burke will be back as well. Fridays were a sort of challenge certain weeks, both from our end and from his end as well. So look for Brian to start, maybe even as soon as next week, for his weekly stop here on the program to get a GM's perspective.

Always love talking to the GMs on Wednesday. So that's what we're kind of looking at here for the show this season, season two, and more announcements as the weeks go on. A couple of things as well. And we'll get more into it on tomorrow's show with Greg as we stand by here for the OHL commissioner, just waiting for Zach to give me the heads up that Brian is standing by. A couple of things really quickly. On the athletic, there is an interesting interview, a Q&A, Aaron Portsline and Dean Eveson,

amongst things he talks about the goaltending situation and also what's happening with Igor Chinikoff, who bluntly has asked for a trade from the Columbus Blue Jackets. So we'll get into more of that with Columbus probably tomorrow. Right now I want to get to our next guest. And also want to remind you that this show is brought to you by Simply Spiked. Gathering with Friends is about creating memories and you want those moments to last forever. Enjoy every juice drop all season long with Simply Spiked,

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He is Brian Crawford. And he joins me now on the sheet. Brian, I know you were a little bit late getting to. I apologize. But blame one of your former general managers. Kyle Dub was formerly of the the Sue St. Marie Greyhounds. We kind of went Broadway a little bit there on you. No, I always enjoyed listening to Kyle, too. So I was just listening in and great to hear his thoughts on the analytics and the changes that, you know,

were affecting hockey. I'm all good. It's, I remember what that was happening, too, is like whoever, I can't remember the, the, the general, it was Tyson Enfield who he hired to track zone entries for the Greyhounds back in 2010. We just had like a notebook and was

check off. Anyhow, how things have change and how things have evolved and, you know, just reminding ourselves that, you know, Dubas came from the Sioux-Marie Greyhound's organization. You know, I kind of always look at junior hockey and we sort of, we always focus on the players. And this is the opening week, two games on Thursday for the OHL season coming up. And I always say to myself, you know, OHL is not just about players, but it's also about training managers. It's about training coaches. It's about training all different levels of high. It's about training officials as well for that next leap. When you look at, in your role as the commissioner of the OHL, when you look at, you know, what the OHL is and, you know, developing for the next level, what comes to your mind?

Certainly we think of the players, but it's got to be more than that too. Absolutely. I mean, you've touched on it already. We have two really simple missions as far as I'm concerned, developing people. And as you said, that includes young people. That includes our coaches and officials. That includes management. Like, it's not just, you know, we don't just supply half the.

players in the NHL, we're also providing the managers and the equipment staff and the trainers and the coaching staff. So it's about that. And then the second part of it is it's about supporting the communities that we're in. The OHL, the CHL as a whole, is about supporting our communities. We are more integrated in our communities than virtually anything else. Like it is meaningful to the experience of what it means to be from Sue St. Marie or Owen Sound or Kitchen or London. And that's really special. It's a superpower for the league, quite frankly. You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you about, too, is non-OHL markets.

So yesterday, so I'm in Stowville, a little bit north of the city of Toronto, just above Markham. And yesterday we hosted our first ever, this is a big deal in our town, our first ever OHL exhibition game. So the Sudbury Wolves, who have an affiliation with the Stowville Spirit, the OJ team here, the Sudbury Wolves facing off against the Kingston front knacks. Everyone wants to see the Kulamon kid. Nick was in the stands. Alexei was fantastic in the game.

But make no modes about, like we're not getting an OHL team here in Stoville anytime soon. But how important is it for the Ontario League to reach out to quote unquote non-OHL communities and bring the game there? Like it was like we were sold out. Like I can't remember the last time I saw Stoval Arena sold out, but there it was. Yeah, I mean, we actually are very intentional. in our efforts to do more

in preseason games in the smaller communities that aren't going to have an OHL team, but absolutely are dedicated, passionate, you know, hockey communities and provide some energy to the preseason that maybe, you know, you wouldn't normally have.

You know, we were at Stratford on the weekend as well for a game and like, so these are really important things for touching the communities that follow our league, that provide players for our league and that, you know, generally just help expand the footprint and the reach of the OHL, you know, across the province and into the United States where we have teams as well. You know, one of the things, you know, as, let me just, let me just grab this year.

One of the things I was pretty happy to see, and I think a lot of people were as well, league-wide enhancements to organizations, whether it's medical and therapy services, strengthen conditioning, team nutrition, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think, you know, everybody would look at this, you know, players, fans, parents, everybody would look at this and say, thumbs up, like, great, great job. One of the things I'm curious about is who sort of oversees this? And, you know, if organizations sort of fall short, are there, is there a consequence? Like, how is this sort of administered?

We all looked at it and said, this is great by the Ontario League. How do you keep an eyeball on it? Yeah. So this is something that actually we started a year ago coming out of our annual general meetings of the summer, was to set up a committee structure to oversee the player experience. in the OHL. And so the interesting thing is that, you know, really a lot of the work that the committee is doing has become even more important, you know, as a result of some of the changes

in the, you know, the hockey ecosystem, of course. And I'm talking about the changes with the NCAA and so forth. So this work had started to say, how do we take what is best in practice in our league and make that actually the floor and make that the standard by which all of our teams are operating? We want to elevate the experience across the league for every player. so that we truly are and remain, you know, the best development league in the world. And so we started that work last year in this committee that, you know, did surveys and data work

and, you know, carried out interviews and did all sorts of things to establish, you know, where are the areas that we should focus? And then within those areas, what are the things that we should focus on? And we started off with about 30 recommendations that came forward after a year's worth of work to the summer that our governors then supported. So, you know, they, you know, formally vote on supporting here, these are, the implementations that we're going to start with, you know, this year moving forward, you know, implementation plan over the next couple seasons. And then also, you know, the structure

by which they're going to be monitored and enforced. And, you know, that includes all of the mechanisms that we have to enforce standards, you know, in the OHL from, you know, monetary fines, draft choice, penalties, all of those sorts of things. And I can say that, you know, our governors, our owners are, you know, extremely committed to raising the standards of experience, raising the quality of the league. You know, it is important in our competition for attracting and retaining players. It is important in our ability to develop great players for the NHL and for other levels of hockey. And so we're really, really pleased with it. You mentioned some of the things off the top. You know, you think about sports, science, strength and conditioning, health, and nutrition,

all of the sorts of things, travel, accommodations, building, all of those sorts of things that touch the player experience. And then also the areas where maybe traditionally we haven't been as great as we can be, you know, what are we doing in the summertime when really that, you know, four month window or six month window or whatever it might be based on when your season ends, you have the best, you know, opportunity to advance as an athlete and advance as a hockey player. And so we're going to do some really exciting things around supporting the players in those critical timeframes of their development. Listen, we all know that the landscape has changed and there's a lot to get to here on both

sides too. And one of the things that I think a lot of us need to keep in mind, right now before we all rush to judgment about what this is all going to mean is we haven't even gone through a full season yet and even begun to evaluate what this is all going to mean. A lot of CHL players have left. We don't know how many are going to come back. I know that Penn State got a biggie, Gavin McKenna, and North Dakota got a biggie in Keaton Verhof. But we don't know what this is going to mean for all the players. players that have chosen to take the NCAA option now that it is available to them. And we don't know what's going to happen if slash when, because there will be some players who say to

themselves, hold on a second here. This isn't necessarily what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be like this. Instead, it turns out it is that. Anyway, I want to make sure that Brian's with us here again. And I wanted to make sure that nothing was misrepresented here because of technology. Let me sort of frame that again. Given this new reality of what's happening with the NCAA and players that have already left,

what was your reaction when the rule changed and what's your reaction now? Yeah, so I'm sorry about that. So the reaction in my position now are that it's a tremendous opportunity for our families, for our place to be able to play in our league and then to be able to play in our league and then to be able to move on to play in the NHL, the AHL, other levels of professional hockey, and now the NCAA. And that's only going to strengthen the pipeline of talent. It's only going to strengthen the ecosystem. So, you know, we feel very, very good about that.

Obviously, it comes with a whole bunch of transition and change that we have to address. And, you know, it's kind of what you're talking about is, you know, the flow of players from Arlene. Currently this year, we've only had seven players lead the league before they were completed their 19-year-old season. And we've seen 112 players join our league from other leagues with whom they probably would never have played in our league before. And we now have this great benefit of having, you know, I think there's just shy of a hundred, about 80 some odd players who have commitments for future seasons to continue to pursue their hockey and academic goals.

So these are really, really positive developments, you know, for the players, for their families, and for the growth of hockey in general. So one of the questions then becomes for me because I have wondered about the situation where a player decides to go to college, it's not what he thought it was going to be and wants to come back. From the OHL's perspective, is it an open arms policy? Adam Ballantini was an awkward situation for the kitchen arrangers. I understand it.

He decides to come back from the OHL's perspective. perspective is, is it open arms? Yeah. So certainly, I mean, we want the best players in the world playing in our league, whether that's Canadians, Americans import players from overseas. And certainly in this current environment, we think very much the same as what you've kind of laid out. The NCAA is an older league for older players. It is not the best place for 18 and 19 year old players. There may be a very small number of players who can really thrive there.

And people, of course, bring out, you know, the likes of Gavin McKenna, who perhaps is a one of one talent, right? So, you know, we obviously firmly believe that for 16 to 19, the CHL is the right place for a player to be and develop to go from, you know, being a young player to being a veteran player with all of the responsibilities that comes with being that veteran player, that drafted player to be, you know, the guy when it comes to not only on the ice, but in the dressing room with the media and the community, all of those sorts of pieces. So, you know, for a player that, you know, might think that there's better opportunities, the grass is greener, you know, I think it will remain to be seeing whether that's actually the case. So we're certainly in the position where we want to have those players stay in our league and that we'll want to, you know, allow players to come back that maybe, you know, it wasn't the experience that they were expecting. You know, and that's, you know, a short kind of period of time. And I think that the environment kind of equalizes and we kind of get into what will be the new case. cadence and new rhythm. We're having a slight connection issue with you here. Again, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope that I can squeeze in a couple more questions with you. I know

nothing has been finalized yet on the idea of 19-year-olds being allowed to play in the American Hockey League. Some teams that I've talked to have sort of preparing for this reality next season. What does that, again, I know we're dealing with hypotheticals here, and that could be an escape hatch from this question. I know we're dealing with hypothetical here, but, you know, how, how does the OHL work with what could be the reality of 19-year-olds going into the American hockey league early? Is it as simple as if you're an organization and you lose a player, a 19-year-old, you get a compensatory first-round pick? Is that enough? How do you work with teams that end up losing players? Again, hypothetical, but this comes across Brian's desk. What does

Brian do with it. I know. So it is something that we're starting to discuss at the NHL, the NHL Players Association, and that being, us being the CHL as a whole. And so very early kind of days in it, you know, it's lots of reporting on what it's going to be. But that's way premature given where we are today and what we're starting, you know, starting to talk about in terms of, you know, kind of affiliation agreements and opportunities to allow for the NHL teams to have more flexibility with player development, more opportunity with clear development while also understanding the impact on the development system and pathway in the pipeline as well.

And what that means for future graph classes in terms of that as well. So we're a collaborative willing partner and have a club partners of the NHL are working to get around that and I'll only start to dive into what that might look like, you at this season or shows time. Okay. We are having a slight connection issue with you. Listen, thanks so much for stopping by. I want to get you back on so many more things to discuss.

Always appreciate your time. Good luck this season. The OHL season kicks off on Thursday with a couple of games. Oshawa is in North Bay. Brampton faces off against the Peterborough Pizza. That is their traditional Thursday night time slot, which they have had seemingly forever, as you know, Brian. All right, Brian, thanks so much.

for stopping by today. Much appreciate it. Thanks so much. There is. Brian Crawford. Apologies for the technical issues at certain times there with the OHL commissioner. We will endeavor to get Brian back on. And again, like this is a story that is not really going anywhere. This is a story that is going to continue. And I think the next chapter in this one is what happens when kids decide that they want to come back. If they decide they want to come back, how many, how significant are they? We don't know the answer to any of these questions yet, but that is another story to follow here. I know the guys

on Morning Kappa, and they're not going to get going until later on this month, I don't believe. They're all over this. A lot of it from the NCAA side of things, and we're sort of coming at it here in a lot of ways from the CHL side of things, but it is a story that continues

in hockey as the development model has changed. A couple of things here before we wrap up the program and again, it's day one. We We went Broadway with Dubas, so we're going to go a little bit late today. I mentioned, to kick off the show today, the announcement of the passing of Ed Jockman, there was another significant passing of a goaltender, Hall of Fame goaltender.

We weren't on to talk about it. I just want to add a couple of thoughts here, too, to the passing of Ken Dryden. I'll just be blunt. Ken and I at times never really saw eye to eye. I think there was always, though, a healthy and mutual respect that we had for one another. was sadden to hear of his passing not just a great goaltender for the Montreal Canadiens, but someone that served my country as a member of parliament, MP for York Center for a number of years, was a wonderful author.

I think everybody by now understands just how consequential his book The Game Was to Hockey Writing and set a standard for a lot of people that this is how you write about hockey and this is how you think about hockey and open the doors for a lot of players who had already written books about the game but to allow them to sort of think about the game in one specific way

and be honest about themselves in one specific way and that's what I wanted to get to here my initial thoughts on Dryden as I look back on the career and we think all about the amazing goal-tend coming out of Cornell and lighting the NHL on fire and winning Stanley Cups and part of one of the biggest powerhouses

that the NHL has ever seen. When I think about Ken Dryden, I think about someone who was really honest about himself, and you saw this in his writing specifically in the game, but elsewhere as well in interviews too.

He was always honest about himself and honest about his performances in international hockey. And there were a lot of moments where Dryden, by his own admission, wasn't up to the standard that he set for himself and others set for him. And we think about 1972, we'll think about the New Year's game with the Red Army as well, which really was a command performance by Vladislav Tracheck, and Dryden always went

out of his way to mention that. Dryden was always someone that would mention how much he struggled against that, against that Russian team. You know, that first game in 1972 with the Montreal Forum, you know, Canada goes up two nothing and everyone thinks, okay, the laffer is on. Canada's going to romp here. And then next thing you know, it's Russia won, Canada, zero, heading to Maple Leaf Gardens for game two. Antonio Esposito in that. He was always really honest about his performance. He always went through this internal process of self-evaluation and honesty that where a lot of other players might blame everything around him, our guys are out of shape, my blue line is no good,

et cetera, et cetera, Dryden always internalized it and talked about, and wasn't shy about saying when he struggled and why he struggled. And that fast puck moving team really gave him fits. Anyhow, we weren't on the air when it happened, but I just wanted to make sure that I expressed my condolences, even though him and I never always saw eye to eye. I understand that we all do his place in the history of hockey as one of the greatest goaltenders of all time during an era where there were some fantastic goaltenders. And on top of that list, Ken Dryden right there with Bernie Perron, for example, of the Philadelphia Flyers, who was probably the best angle goaltender of all time.

Anyhow, a late condolences to the friends and family of Ken Dryden. That's Dryden. We'll probably talk more about Dryden tomorrow with Greg Wyshinski when he stops by the program, as I'm sure he has thoughts on Dryden, on Jockerman. A number of other goaltending issues going around the NHL as we speak right now, most notably Buffalo Sabres signing Alexander Georgiev to a contract, which leads us to wonder, A, what the injury is. Could it be his hip?

has flared up again which he had surgery on a number of years ago and that is of course Uka Pekka Lukinen and what that means for the Buffalo Sabres anyhow.

Let's finish up the program here as we normally do and again more newsy stuff tomorrow with Greg from ESPN he'll stop by tomorrow and then Wednesday and he will conclude the show this week in St. John

for the opening of the St. John Seedog's season. In the meantime, hello, Zacharoo. Do you have... How's it going? Good man. I had a little bit of a connection issue

there with Brian a couple of seconds. seconds ago. I'm not sure what happened there. I have a quick thought on either Dubus or Brian Crawford. Yeah, I appreciate how much Kyle is willing to speak on kind of just everything going on. Obviously, there's going to be like a little bit of a veil that gets put up where they're not going to say every single thing that's coming through. But it's kind of refreshing to hear him sit down and just answer all the questions that you have about everything. Everybody wants to know about Sidney Crosby and he pretty openly

here on the program how you can't. We're a couple days and I'm going to do a thing. All right, all right. Hold on a second, Zach. Now we're having connection issues with you. So maybe.

I'm not sure what the issue is. Let's get to, listen, we have a lot to get to over the next few days you're on the program. So park that one for a second. And let's get right to, our friends at Fanduel here, because I think there's a couple of interesting things

that go over with them. The sheet is power up by Fanduel. This is, of course, home of the same game parley. Make every moment more on Fandual. Fanduel, proud to connect fans with the major sports moments that matter to them as we wrap up the maiden voyage on season two here on the sheet.

What have you got cooked up and what are our friends have cooked up over at Fanduel? Yeah, this one is in the theme of having Kyle Dubis on today. So we're going to go with the market to make and miss the playoffs and I looked at the top teams to miss the playoffs here according to our friends at Fanduil the Chicago Blackhawks in the lead minus 2,500 to miss

San Jose Sharks minus 1100 and then the Pittsburgh Penguins at third minus a thousand to miss those are the top three teams according to Fingwell like to miss this the playoffs this season but I think the Pittsburgh one is more interesting and just oh will they make or miss the playoffs So there's a lot with the penguins this year. I think that I don't, the goal, every manager will tell you, the goal is always to make the playoffs.

I think for the Pittsburgh Penguins, the goal is development and getting this team back to a place where they're consistently competitive to make the playoffs and make no bones about it. We all wonder about Carlson, we wonder about Rust, we wonder about Raquel. And now for the first time, like, legitimately, I think we're starting to wonder about Sidney Crosby

and what's happening there I really do think that in an ideal world Dubus is able to get the covenins and the Magorities these types of players into the lineup

Owen Pickering Harrison Brinnick who's fantastic get them into the lineup while Sidney Crosby is still there and sort of get the rub of being around Sydney Crosby on a day-to-day basis

but I look at whatever lineup Pittsburgh starts with this season, I don't think it's going to look anything like the lineup by the end of the year. And the big one, of course, is Sidney Crosby. I think on that fan duel chart there too, on that fan dual board, I don't think anyone would look at that and say like, oh, you got to be kidding me. The Boston Bruins are going to make the playoffs. I'm not so sure the Boston Bruins are going to make the playoffs.

The Seattle Cracken as well. And that is the one that I really wonder about there, Zach, if it's another year of regular season futility and not making the playoffs, what happens with the Seattle Cracken? And again, there are certainly no guarantees that Seattle is going to come perhaps anywhere close to making the playoffs.

I think we wonder, like, who's going to be in the lineup? Like, does Berkeley, Berkeley, Caton end up making the team, him of the best shot in his draft class, perhaps, but I still think that it's a long shot for that team to turn the page. But in the spirit of, you know, today was dominated by our conversation with Caldubis. I don't think the penguins are about the wins and losses so much as, like, let me put you this way. At the beginning of every year, there are some teams that say, we're only going to be

judged based on what we do in the playoffs. for some teams the playoffs can't get here soon enough and all the answers for a team are hidden in the playoffs and then there's some other teams and I put the Pittsburgh Penguins in this group very much and I think this is why they're going to be intriguing because I think they have some really good ones too I think we're all sort of waking up and realizing what is now in the prospect pipeline for the Pittsburgh Penguins in a lot of ways the only question is are the kids getting better. And if they're getting better and take steps, then it will be a successful season for the Pittsburgh Penguins. My thoughts on it.

Okay. As I mentioned, Greg Wosinski from ESPN is on the next couple of days here with us and we'll get some guests for me and Greg to talk to as well. On behalf of Zach Phillips, our esteemed producer,

thanks so much for joining us here on the maiden voyage of season two of the Sheik. Glad to be aboard. Do all your things, right, with the thumbs up. and the likes and the subscribes and all of it, whether you're listening on your favorite podcast platform

or you're watching us here on YouTube, thanks for your attention. I know we took a lot of your time today. Bless you if you stuck with all of it. Thanks to Brian Crawford, the OHL Commissioner. The Ontario Hockey League commences this season on Thursday with a pair of games, one in North Bay and one in Peterborough.

And of course, thanks to Kyle Dubas and the Pittsburgh Penguins Organization for making the general manager available. Thanks to Kyle for spending as much time as he did with me this morning as he did. And thanks to you for your ears and your eyeballs. We don't take any of it for granted here. So thanks for your attention.

We're back tomorrow at our new start time, 1 o'clock Eastern, here on our daily face-off YouTube channel. We will talk to you again tomorrow at one bell. Got it? Got it? Tip your Zamboni driver on the way out. We're back in 23-ish hours.

I said 16 hours last night every day. this week every day this month I can't get out my head lost all ambitions day to day because you can call it all right I went to the dark man and trying to give me a little medicine I'm like now and that's fine

I'm not against those methods but new it's me and myself and how this is going to be fixing my mind to run a bag of it. I turned on the music I do on the back I turn on music It's enough

Yeah, I'll get you sometimes losing I've been on the days that we're wrong