The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Breaking Point ft. Pierre McGuire

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

Jeff Marek is joined by Pierre McGuire as they look ahead to the highly anticipated Rangers/Sabres matchup, react to the altercation between Joe Sacco and Scott Arniel, give flowers to Robert Thomas, and dissect the rocky situation in Nashville...00:00 Intro13:46 Pierre McGuire14:21 Rangers vs Sabres29:23 Soft Tampering42:42 Nashville Predators53:04 Robert Thomas56:16 Rapid Fire--------------------------------------------Connect with us on ⬇️Daily FaceoffX: https://x.com/DailyFaceoffInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailyfaceoff/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoff/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dailyfaceoff?lang=enWebsite: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/The SheetX: https://x.com/thesheethockeyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesheethockey/TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@thesheethockeyDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So I've talked before about this concept of hate watching. You've probably heard me go on and on about this because you've probably done it. As a matter of fact, if you've sought out a show like this one, you're not a regular, casual, passive hockey fan. You don't forget about games when they're over. You're probably a hardcore, dyed in the wool the wool in for a penny in for a pound capital F fan. So you've hate watched, even if you've never called it that watching a hockey game specifically because you can't stand a certain team and believe they're in a position

to lose probably badly, maybe even in some humiliating fashion. And I've got a spoiler for you. NHL teams and NHL people do this as well. It's one of the great things that we never talk about in hockey, and that is hating hockey. It's true, and it doesn't make you any less of a fan. In fact, I would argue that it makes you more of a fan since you're allowing all of your feelings and emotions to play out as you consume a fan. In fact, I would argue that it makes you more of a fan since you're allowing all of your feelings and emotions to play out as you consume a game. But I digress. I don't want to talk about

hockey hate. We will one day here on the show, but I want to get into something else today. And that's chaos watching. As I said on the show yesterday, the NHL's first star of the week should be Steve Hatzepetros, the schedule maker. Tonight, Steve has delivered a chaos game of the finest vintage, where two agents of frenzy collide as the Buffalo Sabres host the New York Rangers at the Key Bank Center. The Buffalo Sabres host the New York Rangers at the Key Bank Center. New York is 2-8 in their last 10 games, coming off a loss against one of the worst teams in the league,

the Chicago Blackhawks. They've dropped games to the Kraken, the Penguins, the Habs, the Flyers, the Blues, not exactly a murderer's row. The Jacob Truba sideshow played out in front of everyone. Now they're clinging to the idea that they might still get a wild card spot as teams are nipping at their heels. As for the Sabres, they've lost seven in a row. And, well, they're throwing inflatable palm trees on the ice. We're hearing chants of, where is Terry? Yeah, those have been heard.

Fire Kevin. That's been heard too. Head coach Lindy Ruff seems frustrated. And we wonder if he changes anything now that he said he knows what this team is, or more specifically, what it isn't. He's called out Tage Thompson. He's called out Dylan Cousins. Trade speculation, firing speculation,

AHL demotions, and through all of it, there's a feeling that the team is frozen. They know they can't keep going the same way they have been, but they also don't want to make a deal from a position of weakness where they won't get the value they need for the assets they have. Have they overvalued their assets? All teams do that.

But have the Buffalo Sabres really overvalued their assets? So here's the question. Is this a breaking point game for both teams? Sure, we've had conversations. They've already been there. But there's always that final game, or in this case, final loss that seals it. So tonight, both teams limp into the chicken wing city,

hoping not to get anchor bar sauce all over their faces. Watching hockey, maybe for all the wrong reasons. Oh, hi, you're here. Welcome to The Sheep for Wednesday, December the 11th. Mark on the chat says, amazing the talent that's gone through Buffalo in the last 10 years to no avail. To which Brian D responds,

we have great wings. Both things can be true. Much like a couple of things can be true in the Brady Kachuk situation with the Ottawa Senators. One, it is possible that there are a lot of teams that want Brady-Kachuk. And also possible, Brady-Kachuk's preference would be

to stay and see the Ottawa Senators successfully compete for a Stanley Cup. But there does become a certain point where frustration sets in. Are we at that point? I don't think so, but that's not going to stop the chatter. That's one of the topics I want to get into with Pierre Maguire coming up in a couple of moments here on the sheet. Pierre, as we all know, has worn many hats around hockey.

He's been a coach. He's been a manager. He's been a teacher, longtime broadcaster as well, podcaster. He's someone that I've had a chance to work with a couple of different times. And I'm always impressed at how professional, um, a colleague he's, he's been on the, on the times that I've,

I've worked alongside him. So looking forward to having a pure board here coming up in a couple of moments. Uh, in the meantime, our man, Zach, what do we have serving up today?

As far as main topics go, there's only two games on the board around the NHL this evening. And a lot of the eyes are going to be on that Rangers Buffalo Sabres game, but on the sheet today, here's what made it on. The note. I want to play something from Morning Cup of Hockey. So the guys had Kevin Shattenkirk on the show today. And one of the questions that Shattenkirk retired yesterday,

and he's probably going to transition into broadcasting and take all of our jobs. One of the things the guys asked him about was, where were you when the Rangers sent out the note, the wave the white flag, the we're tearing it down, we're going to rebuild. Now, the joke is that rebuild lasted for about five, maybe 10 minutes.

And then everyone kind of said, ah, we're just kidding. We're loading up on the big tickets again and we're gonna go for it not unlike what the los angeles kings went through remember the los angeles kings were gonna do the same thing and then after about what was it six months maybe a year dowdy and kopitar said yeah enough of this we're not gonna sit through a rebuild so we're gonna talk i'm gonna play that bit i want to get your your thoughts on it on the chat i'll ask pierre about it as well. And I'll have a couple of notes about it too,

about the day the Rangers received the note. Also, we never get a chance to see it because there's always plexiglass in between them, but we almost saw a coach fight last night, didn't we? Joe Sacco and Scott Arneal. It always seems to be, by the way, it always seems to be the coaches that were ex-players. Now I know most coaches were ex-players, but it seems to be like the ex-players love really going for it. And, you know, there were a couple, again, this is

something for Pierre to weigh in on as well. There were a couple that you really wanted to see happen. Like I can recall Pat Burns going at Barry Melrose. I can remember John Brophy going at Jacques Demers. I think most recently in Patrick was first game is behind the bench in the NHL with Colorado. He went up Bruce Boudreau then of the, the Anaheim ducks. We've seen it before. Who was it? Dean Everson got into it with, with bones in Winnipeg last year and Dean Everson just sort of stood there who was it? Um, Dean Evason got into it with, uh, with bones in Winnipeg last year.

And Dean Evason just sort of stood there and motion bones to come over, which was not going to happen. We've seen coaches bark in each. Well, what am I talking about? The biggest one is John Tortorella and Bob Hartley. Tortorella tried to get into the room anyway. So we're going to get into coach fights.

We almost saw one yesterday, at least some good barking between the benches. I mentioned Pierre Maguire is going to be stopping by here in a couple of moments. A lot of things to get to with Pierre, including the Nashville Predators. And if you're Barry Trotz, what do you do there? Also want to park some time with Pierre

to talk about Robert Thomas, who was outstanding again yesterday for the St. Louis Blues as they ruined Thatcher Demko's return, 21-state performance via St. Louis over Vancouver last night. One time with Robert Thomas, three points, 19 points in 17 games, and he looks fantastic. Actually, Sakaris and Price on yesterday's show brought up, I think, a really good point.

And that is, if you're the Vancouver Canucks, you have to, considering the injury history of Thatcher Demko, at least start to consider, because we don't know how his body's going to react to this right now. He's back, and that's great. But I want to make sure that I say this right. Popluteus? That's the muscle behind the knee all of BC knows how to say it now us in Ontario maybe don't but the knee injury for lack of a better term

the guys were essentially saying that like look like the injury history the hospital bracelet history for Thatcher Demko is long. At least they have to start considering what long-term life without someone like Thatcher Demko is going to be like. Now, Kevin Lankan has been outstanding for the Vancouver Canucks this season. He's been full value for that team. But if you have a healthy Thatcher Demko, you've got a Vezna Trophy candidate in there. When he's healthy, he is one of the best goaltenders in the

NHL, full stop. But what would full-time, what would a 24-7 time without Thatcher Demko be like for the Vancouver Canucks? I want to ask Pierre about that one. We will ask Pierre about the Rangers and the Buffalo Sabres. We'll ask about hate watching. We should park some time about and talk a little about Anthony Stolarz. If you watch that Toronto, New Jersey game last night, first of all, what a goal by Austin Matthews in overtime after whiffing on three. That was a game that the Toronto Maple Leafs did not deserve to win.

that the Toronto Maple Leafs did not deserve to win. But as Kelly Rudy would always tell me, you should never be embarrassed or never have to apologize for having a great goaltender. Now, I've always been of the mind that in a salary cap universe, as opposed to a pre-salary cap universe where parity is the call of the day, I don't think we can reasonably ask goaltenders to steal games.

I don't. Not considering the nature of parody in the NHL. I think you can ask goalies to steal a period. I think you can ask a goalie to steal two periods. But what we saw yesterday with Anthony Stolarz in the New Jersey-Toronto game was flat out, full stop, one of the best

goaltending performances we've seen anywhere so far this season, up to Wednesday, December 11th in advance of the Paragames on the go around the NHL tonight. So we should... And again, no, Jeff constantly quoting Rudy, get him on the show. Love to get Kelly Rudy on the show.

That guy's full of amazing stories. I love Kelly Rudy. We will be taking questions from the chat a little bit later on as well. We will be talking a little bit more about Sacco and Arneal. Before we bring Pierre Maguire on, Zach, can we play this clip from Morning Cup of Hockey with Laz and Colby this morning? So Kevin Shattenkirk retired yesterday. Let me get to this clip here.

Kevin Shattenkirk on our morning show today on our Daily Faceoff YouTube channel where you are right now, if you're watching live, I'm guessing. This is Kevin Shattenkirk talking about the day the note came out from Jeff Gorton saying, white flag, we're out.

It was something that needed to be done. And I already think the process was in motion. I think Jeff Gorton was seeing everything in front of him. I'm sure he wasn't happy that Dolan put it out there. You kind of kill any sort of leverage that you might have if you're trying to make trades. that you might have if you're trying to make trades. But, you know, it wound up obviously spurring an amazing transition. You know, I wouldn't even call it a rebuild because it was maybe one year of,

you know, after that of a poor hockey season. And then, you know, they were able to leverage everything and make some good trades, bring some people in, kick some people out. And like Truve says, it's a rite of passage to get fired at MSG. So it's part of the gig when you play for the Rangers and when you sign that contract. So I thought that was pretty entertaining when he said sort of tongue-in-cheek, like, yeah, it didn't last very long. We see rebuilds.

Ask Montreal and Anaheim and Chicago what what a real rebuild feels like is nothing what the Rangers went through or what the Los Angeles Kings uh went through which were maybe a cozy one season and then everyone just said yeah enough of the rebuild let's just uh reload let's just get everybody back on board here and we're still chasing the playoffs. We're still trying to fill our buildings and rebuilds are hard and rebuilds are painful and rebuilds as we've seen from team after team, after team as the San Jose sharks. Now they're bunny hops. There are three steps forward and two back or four backwards and two forward. It's, it's painful. It's awkward. And I think right now, more so than ever around the NHL, just ask the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Teams don't want to go through it. They're terrified to go through it. Like, I think that what the Penguins, for example, are going through right now is actually the rebuild. But it's the finest of needles that's trying to be threaded here by the general manager, Kyle Dubas. All these topics up for grabs. We welcome aboard Pierre Maguire. I mean, the bio is long, whether it's coach, whether it's manager, whether it's teacher, whether it's broadcaster, whether it's

podcaster. He's done it all and he joins me now on the sheet. Pierre, how are you today? Excellent, Jeff. So nice to see you. Nice to see you as well. So really quick. I mean, I have a laundry list of things to get to with you and I know that you and I can go off on tangents and we'll end up talking about St. Mike's or we'll end up talking about St. Andrews and just, that'll be the cozy hour. So let me start by the big game of the day. So the way that I framed it off the top of the show was hate watching is a

thing. Sometimes you'll watch a game because you hate them and you want them to lose or a player. You don't want to do well, like fans do it. Managers, coaches, players,

like everybody does it, but that's not tonight. Tonight is chaos watching because there has to be a winner. Or should I say more profoundly in this case, there has to be a loser. Like a loss would be more damaging for which team tonight, the Rangers or the Buffalo Sabres? Oh, I think the damage would be incalculable for the New York Rangers if they were to lose tonight.

I know it's a road game and I know it's against an urgent opponent like the Buffalo Sabres, but the truth of the matter, Jeff, is you know and I know the expectation level in New York was much greater than the expectation level in New York was much greater than the expectation level in Buffalo. And for whatever reason, this Ranger team has gone off the track. I don't know what was said before I came on, but I can tell you right now. This thing went off the track last year after they were eliminated by the Florida Panthers. And all of a sudden, somebody decided to get cued on Jacob Truba, knowing that they probably needed his cap space long-term to get to Sturck and sign.

But then the leak started to come out, and then the questioning started to come out. And I said it last summer, when this all starts, that this is not going to sit well with the players. It's not going to sit well with Truba. And everybody tried to play nice, but I don't think nice has worked out very well. So I think if the Rangers lose tonight, it's a big problem. So let me park a little bit of time on that one too, because I try to put myself in these situations,

try to give it a sort of 360 look as much as possible. How does the player feel? In this case, Jacob Truba, how do the players feel? And how do the veterans feel? How do the kids feel? And how the organization feels as well? What I keep coming back to is,

if the Rangers made the decision that they had to move on from Jacob Truba, and I know a complicating factor is he's the captain, and we've seen this before. We saw it with, you know, Andrew Truck was on waivers. Ethan Moreau was on waivers. I remember when, you remember when Craig Reveille got scratched for 16 games before he got put on waivers by the Buffalo Sabres.

You remember all of this stuff. How should they have handled it? If they had made that decision to move on from Trouba, how should the New York Rangers have handled this from your experience? I never would have allowed it to get public. I think it would have been short, sweet, and to the point. The player, the family, the agent. And I'm sure they probably had some discussions, but this would have been a whole lot of fence mending

in terms of a negotiation with the player and just say, you tell us where you want to go and we'll make it work for you. And we're not going to put it out there. We're just going to make it work for you. And I don't think that discussion ever happened because you saw pushback from the players camp in particular and that's when I think it started to go off the rails it's been interesting to watch some of the former ranger players you know say hey look at that they play for keeps there and you know I heard that soundbite from

Kevin Shattenkirk who's just one of the nicest men and I know you know him well one of the nicest men you'll ever meet and he's like oh it's kind of like a rite of passage when you play at MSG it shouldn't really have to be that way you know it wasn't that way for Rod Gilbert you know and I can go down the line there are a lot of great Rangers that didn't have it that way you know

so anyways long story short I'm not sure it was handled particularly well internally When you look at the team on the other end of the ring tonight, the Buffalo Sabres, um, I thought in the last 24 hours or so, the comments from Lindy Ruff are really telling,

um, you know, Seth Appert handles the power play and Lindy Ruff hasn't been shy about publicly criticizing the power play, uh, publicly criticizing Dylan Cousins, publicly criticizing Tage thompson and then the one that got me pierre because i always try to put on my coach decoder ring

like you'll know this better than me what i'm trying to think okay what is lindy trying to tell us here and when he starts saying things like after 25 games you know what you have you know what your team is the way i read read that is, okay, I'm done doing it everybody else's way. And maybe that means Kevin Adams way. Now we're doing it my way. If I'm going down, we're doing it my way. Is that how you read those comments as well? Yes, sir. A hundred percent. And what's interesting about what you just said, we didn't rehearse this before the season started. Remember they had a long trip over the czech republic they actually spent a lot of time in germany as well and because of jj

peterkin wanting basically had a camp there lindy didn't mess around they didn't amalgamate their american hockey league team their prospects and their angel players in a formal training camp they went right for it because he said we we have no time to mess around. Well, now they're at the 25-game mark. They know exactly where they are. I mean no disrespect meant to Seth Appert at all. But you're talking about putting the keys to the candy store in a man's hands who's never spent a minute in the NHL. That's a tough ask on a power play that, you know, you're trying to formulate.

Not a lot of experience there. And so when this thing got off to a tough start and it starts to go backwards, that makes it really difficult, really, really difficult. Do you get the sense? Because I do like last year there was the, there was the middle stat trade for, for Bo Byram and like, okay, you know what? Kevin's got, Kevin's got fastball. All right. He's got, he's got a fastball. It's a, it's a nice trade for the Buffalo Sabres, but as the losses pile up this year,

and then there was that presser last week, and it's never a good idea to go after the hometown when you're struggling because now palm trees, you saw what's hitting the ice, and people showing up in Hawaiian shirts, and it's just not good, Pierre. So I look at Kevin Adams here and I say, this is the way you want to change things,

but outside of like sending Lafferty or Obey Kubel or maybe Jack Quinn to the American Hockey League, I mean, you're really just sort of shuffling deck chairs in some way. You can't make a profound change because this is the worst possible situation for a GM to be in to make a trade. Everybody knows you're vulnerable and you're the wounded coyote and everybody knows and everybody's circling.

And you can almost hear it in Kevin Adams' voice and he sort of referenced a trade that went away in the summer. It feels very much like he doesn't want to make a deal that he knows he's going to lose because he's not going to get back what he thinks is value for what he'll have to give up. Do you get the same sense as well? And if you can describe it, that must be agony for a manager to go through, be in that situation.

I don't know what his infrastructure is in terms of who he communicates on a daily basis with in terms of professional trades, dealing with the American Hockey League team, working with your pro scouts. But here's what I do know. When you're in a situation like the Buffalo Sabres, Aaron Jeff, internal development, especially with younger players, needs to happen at the NHL level.

Zach Benson hasn't gotten a ton better this year. Jack Zach Benson hasn't gotten a ton better this year. Jack Quinn definitely hasn't gotten a ton better this year. Dylan Cousins, he's fallen back. J.J. Paterka, not as good as I think they were expecting. So that's just four examples of players that they need to be better internally. One of the things they did that I think was smart, Juan Levi they sent to the American Hockey League and just gave them the net. And I think

eventually that will be good for them. And James Reimer is a good, steady, solid hand and he's a good person to have around your team. But I think one of the questions marks I would have if I were the owner of the team or I were the manager of the team, how come my young guys aren't getting any better?

What's going on? Why is there not enough development? And I think that's a big part of when you have a team like Ottawa or Buffalo or Detroit or Montreal, what's your internal development system look like with your players at the NHL level? And if it's not very good, you've got some problems. So I've got a few things I want to jump into on,

on those comments. So a couple of things, one about, I talked a lot over the last couple of days about what you just mentioned, that is who you're communicating with. And in the American hockey league is Jason Carmanos. And there is a, is resume there. Like Jason Carmanos has been around for a long time with a couple of organizations in Carolina and Pittsburgh as well. So there is some experience there. But since Kevin Adams came in, the story of the Buffalo Sabres has been inexperience all around, right? People coming in from the Academy of Hockey and in and out in six months or a year. And there was that period where essentially Kevin Adams was the only manager in the organization.

And this is his first go around as a GM of an NHL team. See, I look around the Sabres and to me, the whole story is inexperience. It is inexperience in the front office and it's inexperience on the ice. And here's the thing. I'll ask everybody, name me the player who was hurt by spending a little bit extra time in the American League. And you look at like Dylan Cousins, no time in the American League, right up into the NHL. Jack Quinn is another great example here. So Quinn, Rookie of the Year in the American Hockey League, that's awesome. The playoffs start and he struggles.

The default turns into he had a good season, R rookie of the year, let's get him up to the big team. You haven't passed all the tests in the American Hockey League. And to the point about Devin Levi as well, you're right, but it's almost as if they went into that one backwards because last year, it was, you know, Ukapeka Lukunen was scratched for eight games in a row. Now he's one of the top 10 goaltenders in the NHL. Like they went back, they've been, they false started Lukunen so many times, they put Devin Levi in every social media platform they could find

when he turned pro, and realized, you know what, maybe it shouldn't be Levi and Comrie starting this season. Maybe the guy that's played in the American Hockey League for a long time, Lukanen, maybe he's going to be our guy. Like, I just look at too many players, again, too many players rushed into the NH just look at too many players, again, too many

players rushed into the NHL all at the same time and way too fast. Does it feel that way to you? Yes. And I'm going to use something that I know you're familiar with, and this is for your viewers and listeners. When Lou Lamorello was really on top of the mountain, and he was for a long time, there was a thing called Lou U. and there weren't a lot of players that the New Jersey Devils drafted or signed that did not spend time at Lou U. And Lou U was the American Hockey League, and they were in a lot of different locations over the course of Lou's tenure, especially in New Jersey. But I can only think of two players, and Marty Berger counts in this

because he did play in Utica. I can only think of two players that Lou drafted that never spent time in the American Hockey League. One was Scotty Gomez, and the other one was Scotty Niedermeyer. I can't think of anybody else that Lou drafted when he was in New Jersey, along with the great David Conte, who was a chief scout there at the time, that didn't spend time at Lou U. And they always made sure they had top coaches down there, guys spending a lot of time. I think the same thing about Detroit with Jimmy DeVolano and Kenny Holland and Scotty Bowman.

And eventually, you know, you move on and Kenny's there and Scotty's moved on in Chicago and kind of retired. But those guys all went to the American Hockey League, whether it was Adirondack or whether it was in Grand Rapids. Those guys were playing. Detroit prospects were playing down in the minors. And look at the success they had. So what bothers me the most is when people say the American Hockey League is being sent

to the minors. No, it's not. It's being sent to the top developmental hockey league in the world. It's like the, I've always sort of described the American Hockey League as the finishing school for the NHL. Like you grad, like that's where you learn like the finishing school for the NHL like a grad like that's where you learn like the the defensive side of the puck and you learn how to round out your game and play in different environments and different positions than than you're accustomed

to you know I was having a conversation with someone about um about Pat Maroon the other day and I used to watch Pat Maroon played one year in London in the in the OHL he came in uh from St. Louis he'd been coached by John Cooper in the NHL for a couple of years. London got him the Basil McRae St. Louis connection. A couple of other St. Louis born players on that London Knights team had a kind of a real St. Louis flavor to it. But the one year, and I remember outside of looking at Pat Maroon and seeing like this guy had

like the longest stick I've ever seen. He's like, like char a length, but he was so skilled. He was so skilled and not really overly physical. Like he was big, but he wasn't physical. You've seen these guys before. And then he gets, and then he gets to the phantoms of the American hockey league and realizes that's not going to work here. Chris Barch went through the same thing. It's not going to work here. I need to evolve and change and adapt my game. And if you put like, if you had like two, two videos beside each other, Pat Maroon, you know, when he's winning Stanley cups with Tampa and St. Louis and Pat Maroon playing with the London Knights, you would not know unless you saw the name bar

that it was the same guy. And that's what the American hockey, it'll identify like what kind of player you can be in the national league. I love what you're saying. Cause that's what the American Hockey League, it'll identify like what kind of player you can be in the National League. I love what you're saying because it's so spot on and has so much relevance to especially when you consider a situation like what's going on right now in Buffalo. But now I, you know, the one year recently that I was working in Ottawa before Mr. Malnick passed away, I spent a lot of time with our team in Belleville. And I can tell you right now, Zach Kostopchik was a kid that was there for a short period of time.

Then he went back to junior. But you could see, you could see just a short period of time he was there, this was going to turn out to be a really good player for a long time in Ottawa. And there are a bunch of other guys. You just see whether they're going to be able to do it or not. And I just think it's an amazing place for teams to uh park prospects and give them an opportunity to really develop and when they are ready they come up you know about a month ago i spent two days in laval watching montreal's farm team laval play against providence i broadcast the games and i would tell

you this right now montreal they're all talking about this prospect and that they got about four guys down there that are going to come up and help their NHL team within the next year to two years. One of them is Luke Tuck. One of them is Florian Jackey. Another one is Joshua Roy. Another one is Owen Beck.

Another one is Logan Mayu. You know, you look at it, they got a whack of guys down there who are really going to be good players. Yeah, let me just really quick, just asking you selfishly on this, bro. What does Owen Beck look like? Because I haven't had a chance to see him in Laval at all. I loved him in junior.

How's Owen Beck? Owen Beck's outstanding. And he's starting to put up big numbers now too, Jeff, which is really cool. Dominant with the puck, learning how to play in his own zone, doing a much better job on face-offs. Even though he's not an overly gigantic guy, he's playing bigger. But what I like are his puck possession skills and his peripheral vision. So I'm going to say if he's not up by probably game 50 this year in the NHL, he'll be up at the tail end of the year for Montreal. And he'll play. That team's good. They should play numerous playoff games in the American Hockey League.

and he'll play, that team's good. They should play numerous playoff games in the American Hockey League. You mentioned Ottawa a second ago. I'm curious your thoughts on the nature of, a new term we have in the vernacular, soft tampering, which is an intriguing one. And, you know, there are the rumors around Brady Kachuk.

Like I've looked at this one and I've said, you know, there are 31 teams around the NHL who want Brady Kachuk, just because you want Brady Kachuk and have talked internally about Brady Kachuk, I don't believe that that qualifies as tampering, soft, hard, or otherwise. I don't believe that Brady Chuck's preference is to leave Ottawa. I think Brady Kachuk's preference is for, you know, for the Ottawa Senators to have a team full of Brady Kachuks and no passengers,

and to be a team that, you know that starts to compete for a playoff spot and eventually a Stanley Cup. But how do you read the Brady Kachuk situation? Because Michael Anlauer, by putting that out through Pierre Lebrun at The Athletic, kind of lit a little bit of a fire here. Yeah. First of all, I just want to pre lit a little bit of a fire here. Yeah. First of all, I just want to preface that I really respect Mr. Anlauer.

When I interviewed for the GM's job with Montreal Canadiens, Mr. Anlauer was on the committee. He was part owner in Montreal at the time. And in the last interview that I had, it was Jeff Molson, Michael Anlauer, Kevin Gilmore, and an attorney for the team. I thought Michael Anlauer was amazingly appropriate in that meeting. It was a phenomenal last meeting. I really appreciate it. I think I had four or five talks with him all the time. I didn't get the job. Long story short, I've always had an affinity towards Michael Landlauer. I didn't like what he said the other day. I have to tell you that. And if Michael asked me, I'd tell him the same

thing. You either are tampering or you aren't tampering. There's no such thing as soft tampering. And, you know, I don't believe the New York Rangers tampered with Brady Kachuk. Tampering is dealing with the agent. Tampering is dealing with the player. You can have internal meetings all the time, and there's not one team in the league, including Ottawa, by the way, that doesn't sit down in pro scouting meetings and say, hey, wouldn't it be great if we could add Jeff Merrick and add him to our team in Ottawa? You say that internally about different players and different

teams all the time. And you say, how much do you think it'll cost us to get Merrick? How many players are we going to have to give up? Are we deep enough at that position in order to give up those players? So those conversations happen all the time. Unless they can prove that their text messages, phone calls, or direct communication in another forum with Brady Kachukar's representatives at Newport Sports, there was no such thing as soft tampering. Zero. So let me ask you, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this example before.

This is for our viewers and listeners. I'm curious whether you think this qualifies as tampering. So one former manager, when I asked him, I was like, okay, so I know all you guys do this. This is like the NHL world revolves around tampering, certainly around July 1st. I said, well your what's your secret sauce to not tamper and he said what what i would do is i would go to an agent of someone who i was interested in and i'd maybe have some small talk and he'd say like yeah how you doing what are you looking for and i'd say well you know what i'm looking for uh you know a six foot two right shot defenseman on an expiring contract.

Maybe he played his junior in medicine hats. I'd, you know, I'd probably go four times three on if I could only find someone like that, but I don't, I don't know if I, maybe he was also traded a Prince George and maybe played his, played his minor hockey here.

I don't know if I can find that guy, but if I could, I'd go four by three. Do you consider that tampering, even though you haven't know if I can find that guy, but if I could, I'd go four by three. Do you consider that tampering, even though you haven't mentioned the person's name? No, I don't.

It's the way the game is played. Some of the best deals, and you'll like this, because I think you're privy to it. Some of the best deals happen when pro scouts are in different ranks. And let's just say you and I are scouting and we're watching it. You got anything going? And you'll say to me, yeah, we we got a few things going what do you what do you like and I'll say well I like some big defense or we think we need a goaltender boy you guys have a lot of goalies and then the

other guy comes by would you be interested and I said yeah let me bring the message back to my my GM so that's how a lot of these deals actually get formulated. There's people discussing stuff in press boxes or on airplanes or on trains, or maybe the pro scouts are traveling together. You never know, but there's a lot of stuff that gets put out there. The one thing I do think the league is concerned with though, and you touched on it, how a lot of these deals are done right at 12 o'clock on July 1st. And I think the league is concerned about that because I remember the year. Well, I don't remember the exact year, but I remember when it happened,

when the Dallas Stars had, I think it was Donald Audet, Billy Guerin, and somebody, they had three guys sitting in a podium at 12.01. Well, hang on. You can refresh my memory on this one. Wasn't Chara similar in Boston? It was 12.01 and there's Zdeno Chara with this

very, very sophisticated contract that the Boston Bruins have put together in 60 seconds. Well, part of the tie-in on that one, if you remember, Peter Shirely left Ottawa and went to Boston. And so that was the tie-in there. And I think there was a lot of bad blood on that one, if I remember correctly.

Well, you know, and I'll tell you what, like that's what it winks at one of my other sort of favorite stories. And that is the Claude Giroux draft where Bobby Clark forgot his name. And well, Ron Hextall, who had been, Ron Hextall had been with the Philadelphia Flyers and a few weeks before the draft had left to join Dean Lombardi in Los Angeles and he'd been privy to all the draft meetings etc etc and he knew that Bobby Clark you know wanted Trevor Lewis saw some of himself in the big power forward from Des Moines the big center from Des Moines in the USHL and there he goes Dean Lombardi up there and announces Trevor Lewis and Clark is just hot and like shooting daggers at Hextall at the Los Angeles Kings table

and then got up on stage and he was still hot about it and he forgot Claude Giroux's name. Homer, who we taking? I'll never forget that one. But again, like what do you do with something like that? Someone that leaves when organized? I know that there's certain protection on it now.

Like they have cleaned that up. Like, okay, no, you can't remember it was a Bradshaw living. Couldn't sit at the Maple Leafs draft table, for example. So they,

they have tried to clean that up, but let's face it. I mean, this has happened with coaches. I remember Quinn with LA and Vancouver and et cetera. Like this has been happening for the longest time. I don't know how are you going to police it other than just make sure you don't embarrass the NHL with it by announcing a ton of deals at 1201 two o'clock.

You know, one of the bigger tampering ones and they got caught was Hartford when Mr. Carmanos and Jimmy Rutherford went in there the first time on Glenn Wesley. Yeah. And they contacted Glenn Wesley, and it cost Hartford Whalers three first-round picks. Harry Sinner was a GM in Boston at the time, and that was one that quietly went away. But that was pretty significant at the time. That got everybody's attention in a hurry.

I think there was kind of a moratorium after that where guys started to pack off a little bit, saying, whoa, that's pretty draconian. But no, to me, Ottawa, I would say this. Mr. Ann Lauer is a really good owner. I think Mr. Ann Lauer is just going to keep his eyes on the prize. Sure, everybody would like to have Brady Kachuk. I helped negotiate Brady Kachuk's contract, the one he's playing on right now.

I know how valuable he is and how much respect I have for the father, who I had way back when when he was a kid at Malden Catholic in a hockey camp before he went to Boston University and played with Sean McEachern and Tony Amante. So I'm pretty familiar with the family. Everybody would like to have Brady on their team. The truth of the matter is he's always a signed player for the Ottawa Centers. I'm pretty familiar with the family. Everybody would like to have Brady on their team. The truth of the matter is,

he's always a signed player for the Ottawa centers. The Ottawa centers will determine whether they're going to trade him or not. Nobody else is. Let me pivot to something lighter here really quickly. Did you see Scott O'Neill and Joe Sacco last night? I did. I did. Okay.

You know what? I got a story before you go there. Go for it. Go for it. I'm in Erdford. I'm coaching against Pat you go there. Go for it. Go for it. I'm coaching against Pat Burns and the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I don't know why, but we,

I think we ended up, we do win the game. And that's the year that Gilmore was just ripping the league apart. And he ended up being the MVP of the league. And so I don't know, Pat was yelling and screaming at our bench and I didn't say much. I just looked over and he kept it going. And I didn't want to bug him at the end of the game because I consider him to be a good friend. So at the end of it, the next day, I call up Chris Broadhurst, the trainer.

And I said, hey, Chris, could you ask Bernsie if he's mad at me about something? Because I'd love to talk to him. I don't want to bug him. And he went and he talked to Pat. He goes, no, no, he wasn't mad at you he was mad at your assistant from when he played in quebec when he and dale hunter was the goon guys he's mad at paul gillis and he's yelling at paul gillis the whole game so i was like oh my goodness gracious so anyways bernie and i sorted that out but go ahead i

apologize no no no listen no because like this is This is what I wanted to get out of you. We saw Scott O'Neill and Joe Sacco going at it, and I'm glad you mentioned Pat Burns, because I think we can all remember the 1993 conference final, Los Angeles and Toronto. Barry Melrose. I'll still remember, and you'll remember this one,

the late John Brophy going at Jacques Demers. Don't forget Herb Brooks and Jacques Demers with the glasses. Yes, that's right. Oh, I forgot about that one. That's right. I mean, this used to be almost like it would happen like three or four times a year where coaches would go after each other. In the old autumn Buffalo, Torch and I had about three or four of those.

You did, eh? So that's what I was going to ask you. How close were you to having one of these when you coached the whale? A couple times. Torch and I, for sure, that was Buffalo-Hartford. We played them nine times. It was crazy. I don't know what. And that's when

Buffalo was a murderer. The power play was unique. John did such a good job of the power play. They had the late Dale Howard, Chuck, they had Doug Bogger, they had Pat LaFontaine, they had Uri Himalaya, they had Alexander McKeown. It was just a murderer's row, Jeff. You couldn't stop their power play. So one time with them and that would be about it. I mean, Burns, he was the only time like, what's he yelling at me for? And eventually we sorted it all out.

I remember one time, though, we beat Boston, the old Boston guard, Tommy McVie and Brian Sutter were coaching Boston. Boy, oh, boy, when Brian got squirrely and he looked at you, you just didn't even want to look back. And I think I'd put somebody out against oats that he wasn't happy with you know changing the fly it might have been mark janssen's and he's he eyeballed me and i was like i don't think i want to be involved in this right now he's looking pretty squirrely were were you on the hartford bench it's funny you mentioned the

buffalo sabers brad may told me the story. It was the last game of the season, and he was like 15 penalty minutes shy of 300, and he had a bonus, like $10,000 if he got 300 penalty minutes. And I think it might have

been Koharski. I think it might have been Don Koharski. Like, Mayday did everything, and Don was like, and Mayday got on Koho and like hammered him with like every like salty word you've ever heard in your life. And Brad said, I was so frustrated because Koho knew that I was up for like an extra

10 grand on my bonus. But he gets Sam, not going to give it to you. You're not going to get it. I'm not going to penalize you. He said, Koho drove me. And it was against Hartford. I don't think I was there for that one. I don't. I'm not going to penalize you. You made it. And he said, he said, coho drove me and it was against Hartford. Was it? I don't think I was there for that one. I don't believe I was there for that one. The one that I do remember,

uh, I was in Pittsburgh, uh, Bob Johnson, look, the guys, we'd already clinched first place. Looked at the guys to,

we were at Madison square guard. He says, anybody meet any bonuses? And Randy Gillen, the most humble guy on our team, just an amazing, diligent role player. Randy, Randy Gillen looks around sheepishly and says Gillen, the most humble guy on our team, just an amazing, diligent role player. Randy Gillen looks around sheepishly and says,

well, if I get one assist, I get a little more money. I get a bonus. So Bob goes, you're out there. Get out there, Gillen. Get out there. He got his point and he got his bonus. So I was happy for him. But that used to be the thing.

Honestly, I used to love that. Everybody would know, like there was that. I mean, the first time I became aware of it was, uh, with the Toronto Maple Leafs, one of them had been like 78.

And I think Lanny McDonald had a bonus for 40 goals. Last game of the season, empty net and Daryl Sittler passed it to him. And then the story came out the next day, he gave it to him so he could get his bonus and then you know harold would start benching guys towards the end of the season so they so they couldn't get their bonuses like okay he's a couple assists short yeah yeah he's he's scratched for this game he's not gonna play roger like these guys aren't gonna get in the uh get in the game um that was always a nice sidebar that i always enjoyed in hockey growing up okay let me ask you about the preds let me ask you about barry trotz

this i don't think anyone thought for one second that we'd be sitting here on december the 11th and the nashville predators would be team number 32 and that's where we are with nashville a couple of things we've made a lot about the center position, and I think that is accurate, and I think that story is well told. The one thing that I keep coming back to with Nashville is I don't think it's a coincidence that Nashville's where they're at and Tampa's where they're at, considering Ryan McDonough just went from one to the other. I think he's one of the most underrated players in the entire NHL and has been for a number of years. All you have to do is talk to any of his teammates.

All you got to do is watch him play. But when you look at Nashville right now, A, what do you see? And B, do you have a thought on how this can get massaged? Or is the season already lost, and now all you're trying to do is mitigate the damage. First of all, I want to touch on McDonough. I went completely crazy when he got traded by Montreal to the New York Rangers.

And all you have to do is the great Mitch Melnick. I still do his show. It's been almost 25 years now. Friday after every day used to be from 5.05 to 5.30. Now it's 5.35 to 6 o'clock. And I went crazy. I couldn't believe they did that.

And that's when he was still at the University of Wisconsin. Could you imagine how good the Canadians would have been with P.K. Subban on the right side and Ryan McDonough on the left side for all those years? It would have been unbelievable. Anyways, with Nashville, I think there are a couple things. One, the center ice position was spot on,

especially when O'Reilly's not playing. That's a big problem. And you could see it in Montreal the other night when they lost 3-0. There was no Ryan O'Reilly after they had played in Toronto the night before, and it was a big problem for Nashville. They had no thrust through the middle. That affects Philip Forsberg. That affects Gus Nyquist.

That affects, you know, Marcio. And that obviously affects Stephen Stamkos a lot. So that takes a lot of your offense right out of it. The second thing is there's only three teams in the NHL that have defensemen leading in scoring. One is Columbus with Zach Wierenski, but he's a plus nine. The other one is Vancouver, Quinn Hughes. He's a plus nine. The other one is Vancouver, Quinn Hughes. He's a plus nine.

The other one, believe it or not, Nashville. Roman Yossi, he's a leading scorer. He's minus 21. So it's not just the center ice position. There's a complete inability to defend there. The entire group doesn't defend well. And when they're not scoring because of that limited center ice play that you talked about,

Jeff is a massive problem. I am absolutely shocked and dumbfounded where Nashville is right now. Andrew, that's a really good coach. I can tell you right now, Todd Richards, Darby Hendrickson, those guys are really good hockey men.

Derek McKenzie is a really good hockey man. I don't get what's going on there. I don't get the sense. And listen, I think Barry trots, you think of a couple of things. Um, you think Stanley cup,

you think Jack Adams, you think, you know, longtime Nashville, uh, someone from a little bit older vintage might think of, you know, old Regina Pat's defenseman.

Um, but, um, yeah, I, I, I think coach first, even though he's a manager.

And, uh, I think that he's really trying to go out of his way to make sure that there's no conversation about Andrew Burnett behind the bench. I think that there's an understanding that Barry has that, you know what, this isn't coaching, this is construction. And that one's on him. Do you get that same feeling, Pierre?

Yeah, that's why I brought up those other things. Like center ice is clearly a problem. I think limited defense, and you nailed it, by the way, with Ryan McDonough. They missed Ryan McDonough, unbelievably. I mean, it's really apparent. I'm a huge, I think you are too, a Roman Yossi fan. Roman Yossi won the better players in the league.

But he's minus 21. You can't make that up. Those are his numbers. I didn't do it. But he leads his team in scoring, and he's still a minor. Where would he be if he wasn't leading his team in scoring as a defenseman? He wouldn't be minus 21. He'd probably be minus 35.

So, you know, they got issues there. It's not just offense. They got issues defending in their own zone. Okay, so one of the things, sort of bouncing around topics with you here, Pierre, one of the things that I always ask myself when there's a new scenario is, what am I missing? Like, I've thought a lot and talked a lot

and written a lot and spoken a lot about this NCAA-CHL situation and what it's all going to look like. And we still haven't seen the big dog appear, and that is the NHL, who are going to, you know, come in and essentially say, okay, these are how the relationships are going to work. Like it's, look, it's the old saying, right?

The NHL sneezes, everybody catches a cold. Every other league catches a cold. So the NHL will take a lead on this one. How do you see it all playing out? And is there something, you always think about the law of unforeseen circumstances or, you know, what is everybody missing? While we're looking over here, something over there is happening and we're all missing it. Is there to you and over there that we're all missing, that we're all not seeing?

And how do you see this new reality of development where the NCAA is going to be on top of the pyramid? Congratulations, NCAA, you won. And now we're seeing the spirit of cooperation and trying to figure out how all these relationships are going to work. How do you read it? And is there something you think that we're all missing here? I don't think anybody's missing much,

unless you don't look at the wellbeing of certain leagues. What happens to, for instance, tier two junior hockey, whether it's in Alberta, whether it's in Saskatchewan, whether it's in Manitoba? Feeder for D3. Feeder for D3. Does that make sense? That's how I look at it.

So these are the questions that I have. What's going to happen to certain franchises in the USHL? You've been, I think, at the front of this in terms of coverage. I've read a lot of what you've written, and I think it's really appropriate. Most of my conversation has been with college coaches. I sat in a coaching office two and a half, almost three weeks ago now, with a family of a player who's being recruited by this team. And this young man's playing in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League right now.

And he's a really good player. And he's already committed to this school but i was talking to the family and to the player and he says i think i need to play more at this level meaning the college level so that i'm ready for when i'm a little bit older and by older i think he means 21 or 22 because he doesn't think he's going to be ready to play pro hockey when he's 18 19 or 20 which i completely agree on i think that's what to be ready to play pro hockey when he's 18, 19, or 20, which I completely agree on. I think that's what a lot of kids are looking at right now. And I don't know whether that's right or wrong,

but I think that's how a lot of kids are looking at it. A few more things before I let you go. I was saying at the top of the show, I think in a salary cap universe, I don't think it's right to expect or ask goaltenders to steal games. Given the level of parody around the NHL. I think that's a really tough ask. I think you can ask a goalie to steal a period. I think you can ask a goalie to steal two periods, but a game is a tough ask,

but we just saw Anthony Stolarz steal a game last night, flat out, full stop, last call, all of it. It's over, Get out, you know, wipe the table down. Everybody leaves. That was larceny last night. The Maple Leafs had no business, nevermind picking up a single point, picking up two points in that game last night. Do you have a thought on Anthony Stolarz? I do. I got a bunch of them. The first time I ever saw him play live, he was playing for Nebraska Omaha. Oh, yeah. Doc Emmerich and I were doing a game there for NBC Sports Network. It was Nebraska Omaha against Colorado College in Omaha.

He was so good in that game. And it wasn't long after that he left to go play for the London Knights. And I tracked him ever since then. And I was with Ottawa when he was at Anaheim and he played against us on I think it was a Saturday afternoon might have been a Sunday but he was so good he was so good in that game and you know watching him last year I thought he was really good when he had a chance to play in Florida obviously Bobrovsky that was his net but when the Leafs got him I've been on the record since they got him. One of the really under-the-radar acquisitions

of the entire last offseason. He's been great. Joseph Wall's been equally good. What's interesting there, most people don't even want to give the goalie coach any credit, but Curtis Sanford deserves a huge amount of credit in Toronto. Both of these guys have played

fantastically well. It's not like they're guessing. They're playing a certain style. They're making themselves, and they are big people, but they're making themselves look even bigger in goal. And what you said about Toronto last night, after the first period when the shots were 18 to 1 in favor of New Jersey, I was going, what the heck is going on here? And then I see Austin Matthews has five breakaways in the game,

and he only hit the net twice. And one of them went in, thank God for Toronto went in. It was an overtime. It was, it was one of the more remarkable games. Really quick. Last thing. Thatcher Demko's debut.

Great to see him back, you know, on the Sakaris and Price show, they're talking about Vancouver. Like, you know, this is a manager. Like you need to start to prepare yourself, considering there's

a hospital bracelet issue here. What does life without Demco possibly... You have to start planning for it. That has to be a thought for Rutherford Alvine. Happy to have him back, but you can't just wait until it's over. You have to have a plan. I'm guessing Vancouver

is going through it. So, Karis and Price, we're talking about it yesterday, so I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Yeah, I bet you they do have a plan. I bet you Patrick's going through it. So, Karrison Price, we're talking about it yesterday, so I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Yeah, I bet you they do have a plan. I bet you Patrick and Jimmy have been talking about it a lot along the way and the rest of their staff. So, I would say that, yeah, they probably do have a plan. In fact, look, for his first time around, yeah, there was rust on him, but I thought Thatcher was fine.

You know, the game-winning goal was a great play coming down the wall. But, boy, you know what though? You've got to give credit where credit is due, Jeff. That team in St. Louis, they're a captive audience and they're believing what the professor is selling right now. And that's Jimmy Montgomery. He's done a tremendous job

since he's gotten in there. And you can just see they're a team that's really motivated by whatever he's telling them. They're unbelievably motivated to play for. And the one guy that always stands out for me is one of the best playmakers in the NHL and that's Robert Thomas. You know how I feel about Robert Thomas

and I go on gush about Robert Thomas and he's got to be like that first call for hockey Canada, for Team Canada. But do you have any 19 points in 16 games for Robert Thomas, one of the most creative playmakers in the game, on par with your Mitch Marners, et cetera? Quick thought to conclude here on Robert Thomas.

Well, first time I saw him play was a London night. Then I saw him as a Hamilton Bulldog. And then I saw him in a Stanley Cup final. I actually did all their games that year that they won the Stanley Cup in 2019 and had a pretty good vocal relationship with him because he'd always stand and evaluate the other goalies during the warm-ups and that'd be right next to where I worked. And I just think so much of him, not only as a player, he's an unbelievable player.

We talked about peripheral vision before. His peripheral vision is unbelievable. His ability to escape traffic is overwhelming. It's just fantastic. But as good a player as he is, he's an equally great person. He's a tremendous young man. I think the world of him. Yeah, his family's awesome.

His dad, Scott, is like one of the most generous and kind people you're ever going to meet. You know, I always wondered, do you ever think about it? Because he's a bow-legged skater. I always look at skaters like that and say, ooh, are you not always concerned about the knee injury? Like when you look at skaters like that and say oh are you not always concerned about the knee injury like when you look at skaters like that do you not think like oh there's a uh that's that's something about him he's a strong skater he's awesome whenever i see bowlegged skaters i always think oof just hope he doesn't get caught yeah the one one guy i always thought of was a

jillbear perot when i was a kid growing up did i watch him play for montreal junior canadians and then i watched him play for the Buffalo Sabres and he was really bow-legged. And then you get a chance to meet him when you're older and you're like, well, you know, maybe he's not as bow-legged as you thought. You ever see him do karaoke, by the way, just as an aside? Yes, I have, actually.

Fantastic show, isn't it? He's really good at karaoke. Something that I'm no good at. Yeah, no, no, I'm the worst. Pick a key, Merrick, any key, pick a key is something just stay in tune.

Uh, listen, this has been delightful. We're going to do it regularly. Uh, enjoy the rest of your day, Pierre. Thanks as always for stopping by continued success.

And we'll, uh, we'll check you out again here in short order on the sheet. Thanks for popping by the maiden voice. Thank you so much. Yep. Congratulations on your new show. Good luck.

Thanks, pal. Thanks, pal. Be well, uh, Pierre McGuire, broadcaster coach, manager

I mean he's done my first, I was saying off the top of the show I worked with, the first time I worked with Pierre was at the Montreal draft and I remember when Pierre came into the rink on draft day, he was the person who used to coach him, who told me about Brian Marchman passing away

and I'm the weeks leading up to the draft, it was remarkable how much of a thorough professional he was. There's some people that you work around and you say to yourself, like, okay, that's a pro. Like every interaction, whether it's at the gym, whether it's at dinner socially, or whether it's at work at the rink, like through and through. So we're going to hear from Pierre regularly here on the program. Glad that he's signed up for more goofy conversations with me, Zach.

Glad that he's signed up for that. What are we leaving on the table here before we wrap up in a few minutes? What are we leaving on the table here, Zach? There's a few things. By the way, did you like Pierre? Not only did I, the first thing that I was going to say to you, the chat, overwhelmingly massive fans of Pierre Millard.

He's great. Massive fans. He's a tremendous broadcaster. He was amazing to deal with, obviously. Awesome to have here on the show. So there's that. I do have a couple of things for you you mentioned robert thomas last you know i'm a big fan of robert thomas i know him personally i played with him growing up there's a question what happened to you so what happened to you

let's not worry about that let's not worry about that um rob smith if th Thomas doesn't get hurt, does he make four nations? For me all day, for me all day, because you can play them up and up and down the lineup. Uh, for, for me again, like I'm biased because I've, I hate to be that guy, but I remember watching him play jerk Simcoe express, you know? And the thing about Thomas, even just growing up, he always played like, you'll know him better than me. Um, he always played, was it one year up? And there were a couple of years where he played two years up and also played like you'll know him better than me um he always played was it one year up and there were a couple of years where he played two years up and also played on he played on his

regular team and then he played two years up as well by the time he was getting called up yeah yeah like he was he was aping for for teams not one year up but but two years up but anyway uh robert thomas yes absolutely wonderfully creative uh playmaker can play up and down your lineup like a thorough professional. I'll take Robert Thomas as the first injury call-up for Team Canada. Okay, so first thing I want to ask you that we kind of have left and pushed off here.

First would be Ovechkin. He's on the ice. We saw that the other day. But he had Backstrom out on the ice passing with him. Did you catch that But he had Backstrom out on the ice passing with him. Did you catch that? I did. He requested Backstrom to go out and pass with him. Do we have the clip of that?

Do you have that queued up, Zach? Yes. Do you have it available? Okay, let's fire this off. So this is great. This is wonderful. I think a lot of us thought that Nicholas Backstrom and Alexander Ovechkin were going to essentially retire together.

Injuries, you know, unfortunately got in the way of that. But you know what my first thought was? When I think of players feeding Ovechkin, Backstrom, yes. But you go back to the early days, for the old school folks, could not have Mike Green out there. Before John Carlson, kids, could not have like for the old school folks could not have mike green out there like before before john i'm gonna sound like an old before john carlson kids there was a defenseman by the name of mike green who came up from the hershey bears i used to feed him grapes on a consistent basis on the power play and that's where we first saw vetchkin setting up in his office just for some of you and i think history the way, has almost forgotten how good Mike Green was and how good that Caps power play was and how much of it was

just that, that battery. And John Carlson continued after, you know, Mike Green shuffled off elsewhere of Mike Green to Alexander Ovechkin. So cool seeing Baxter out there. That would have been awesome. Maybe if they have just like sort of celebrity puck feeders, maybe tomorrow we have Mike Green on the ice feeding one-timers for Alexander Ovechkin.

Anyway, it was, uh, was, was cool to see. It was cool to see. Uh, it's amazing to how successful he was doing the same thing throughout his

entire, I'm not, and again, I'm not trying to diminish what Ovechkin did, but like, you know, all the clips or the photos of him standing straight legged, he's got his hands on his pants.

He's just standing there. And then it's the other guys just zip him a puck right in the wheelhouse. And that thing's in the back of the net. And he's going to likely pass very soon here. But you know, the interesting thing about that, like I'll always remember because Brett Hall wasn't too dissimilar in some ways, right? Like Brett Hall wasn't a burner. Brett Hall wasn't a water bug in the offensive zone. But the one thing that Brett Hall always did well was he was able

to hide in the offensive zone. Like I never really figured out like how he did it, but I mean, it's like Brett Hall, like the guy can score 80 goals. Like how can you be invisible in the offensive zone? And Brett Hall always had the great quote, sometimes the best way to be in the play is to be out of the play. Like, he had this uncanny ability to be completely away from the play and almost hide, get to position, and as soon as he got position, Adam Oates fed him the puck, and as soon as the puck was on his stick, shot. Shot.

Like, I still think, I know we kind of joke about, okay, I'm not comparing Ovechkin to this guy, and I'm not comparing Brett Hull to this guy, but I want to make a point about Neil Yakupov. Okay. Again, I'm not comparing Neil Yakupov to Alex Ovechkin.

But the Edmonton Oilers used to have what I thought was a really cool line for a while. It was Conor McDavid, Benoit Pouliot, and Neil Yakupov. And the reason I liked it so much is you had three guys who did three very distinct things. Benoit Pouliot was a guy that got in the corners and got on the wall and dug out pucks.

Conor McDavid was the guy that did the zone exit, gathered speed to the neutral zone. And all that Neil Yakupov had to do was just wait for one of these two guys, generally Connor McDavid, to get him the puck. And then his job was simple. The minute Connor gives you the puck, just shoot. Just get yourself in position and just shoot. Don't try to do anything. Don't try to toe drag. Don't try to move around. No, Conor's going to get you the puck when you need to shoot. Again, I'm not comparing him to Alexander Ovechkin, but there is an element of Ovechkin being out of the play for that one timer and then suddenly being part of the play for that one-timer and then suddenly being part of the play with that one-timer

because he's far enough away from the penalty killers that no one's going to go out there and chase him. Otherwise, you're completely allowing, you know, TJ Oshie in the bumper position to fill the net. So you kind of leave Ovechkin out there and you're right. Like everybody knew the play and everybody knows the play,

but no one can stop them. It is one of the great examples of everybody knows what he's doing, but no one's figured out how to stop this thing. And it's not going to happen until his career is done. But how, but again, but again, like here's,

here's the interesting thing. How many guys, sorry, I'm going to jump all over here. How many guys, and there are a couple that I can think of right out of the gate, towards the end of their career, because injuries catch up and age

and all those types of things, just wanted to be the one-timer on the half-wall guy. Paul Correa, Jerome McGinley, happens, right? Ovechkin's been able to do it, but successfully. Like, remember in St. Louis where Carrillo was always like, the power play goes through my stick,

all of the pucks come through my stick, and just like, there's Carrillo the one-timer again, that's over the net, Carrillo the one-timer again that gets blocked. Ovechkin's getting shots through and blowing pucks past goaltenders still, unlike everyone else who gets

older and just wants to be one-timer on the half-wall guy. I'm going to ask you something here as we go through the last couple of things before the show ends. One thing that popped into my mind was the Jack Adams. You guys started talking about it with Wish yesterday about the colder and paths to winning and stuff like that. And I think there's a lot that goes into it because for some of these awards they are um maybe it's the wrong word but like narrative based right what was the situation that took place for this person to be

in that position yeah you're the hockey historian i'm gonna hit you with something and see if you know this one okay i was scrolling down the list of guys who are in contention and who are the favorites maybe uh in like betting markets or whatever to win the jack adams and i went down to the bottom and i saw at 80 to 1 jim montgomery and i started to think okay is there a great that's a great bet just like craig thatube with the St. Louis Blues. That's just like, honestly, just like Craig Berube with the St. Louis Blues, because he took over as interim, took over from Mike Yeo. Like, that St. Louis team wasn't in the disarray

that this year's St. Louis team is. Like, that Craig Berube 2018-2019 team, I can remember it specifically. I mentioned Pat Maroon earlier. This close to being sent, and I've thought about this a lot with Pat Maroon. He was this close to being sent to the AHL. And a lot with pat run he was this close to being sent to the ahl and i've seen this a million times when a guy like that gets sent to the american

hockey league they don't come back instead he didn't get waved stayed in the nhl and he won three stanley cups in a row but there was that there was that one period i think it was like december where he was going to the American Hockey League and Jay Bomeester was getting waved. And I remember specifically because that was in Toronto and Jay Bomeester was always a pretty chill guy, like really cool, loosey-goosey kind of guy. Sour.

Because it sounded like he was getting waved. Maroon was going down. Bowmeister's getting waved. And then all of a sudden, Jordan Bennington. And everything changed. And they still chant for Craig Berube. And he brought that, you know, secondary six expansion team, their first Stanley cup. But all of it was because Doug Armstrong didn't do what he wanted to do. And that was wave

Bowmeister and send Patrick Maroon down and call up and call up, um, uh, call up Jordan Bennington. But yeah, you know what? Because you're right. I think generally the voters look at it and say, what's the story? When really all along here, you look at like, how the F has John Cooper not won a Jack Adams? Of all the things that Tampa has done,

how has he not won? Now, Spencer Carberry is going to be, right now, if it's top right now, Spencer Carberry we get a lot of love john hines in minnesota would get a lot of love as well but somewhere along the way here doesn't john cooper need to win a jack adams like shouldn't there be a year where kind of everyone says we we're embarrassing ourselves here. I think we want to get one of these things for John Cooper. Don't you think? I agree. I'm

shocked that he hasn't got one. I do want to hear the history part of that. Montgomery is an interesting one because if St. Louis takes off here... Three points out of the playoffs right now. Why not? Why not? There's three coaches in NHL history who have taken over a team during the season and won the jack adams do you know who

those three coaches are oh geez um that's what i wanted to hit you with oh geez we don't have enough time for me to sit here and go uh uh uh uh uh uh who have taken over and won the Jack Adams. I don't know. Give me hints. Give me hints on it. One of them you talked about earlier in the show, he almost got in a fight with a former player who turned coach. Bruce Boudreaux. Oh, Gabby.

Right, right, right. Yeah, okay. Who are the other two? Ken Hitchcock and Bill Barber. Those are the three who took over a team during the season and won a Jack Adams. There is also only three coaches who have ever, we'll get off the history stuff here,

but there's only been three coaches, by the way, who have ever repeated as Stanley Cup champions with different teams, that have won Stanley Cups with two different teams. I know Toronto Maple Leafs fans don't want to hear that, but it's true. Anything else? Uh,

yes. Final thing here. Uh, you talked about Nashville a little bit with Pierre during the show. Yeah. Um, I think we would be, Oh,

Matt Larkin bring up the article. Yes. Matt Larkin. bring up the article. Yes, Matt Larkin put out an article here today on Daily Faceoff outlining everything to go on with the Nashville Predators, kind of how shocked

we are here, but wanted to give you an opportunity to kind of just dive into that one and think us through some of the things because there's

some names that were listed that were pretty interesting in the article. So, correct me if I'm wrong, did he have, as one of the the names Longshot Tommy Novak? Did he consider him to be a Longshot? The reason that I would, and it's good.

I encourage everyone to read this. Larkin's awesome. I like the one that he did. Yeah, there. Longshot, Trader Riley, and or Tommy Novak. I want to get back to Novak here for a second. But I mean, Larkin's great. I love his first piece on Monday where

he sets up the week. So this is good. The reason I don't think that Tommy Novak is a long shot is you have New York in the marketplace. And last year, right around trade deadline time, before the Nashville Predators re-signed Tommy Novak, the team that was most aggressive, as I'm told, in trying to get him was the New York Rangers. So if they decide to go to market with Tommy Novak, considering the New York Rangers are in the market to improve their team, thank you very much, that wouldn't surprise me. That's why I don't necessarily think that Tommy Novak is a long shot here. Look, I think we're all sort of bewildered at what's happened to Nashville. Maybe there is some, again, because like the season's, like it's scotched for Nashville. Like it's it.

That's like they're done here. You know, I know that players are going to compete hard and coaches never coach to lose, but at a certain point, managers will tell you, yeah, cheer for a close game, but you want to give yourself the best lottery odds come, come, come draft time. And there's a handful of gems at, at the end of the, at the end of the season this year, come NHL draft. I think if you're the Nashville Predators, you try to do the business that you can. You look at this season and you say,

okay, dust ourselves off and start preparing for next year. Make no mistake about it. This is going to be an awful remainder of the season for these players who didn't sign up for this. Like Stephen Stamkos didn't sign up for this. Like Stephen Stamkos didn't sign up for this. Jonathan Marcheseau, Brady Shea didn't sign up for this. There are some teams that expect that it's going to be a long year. Like there's a lot of players on that Montreal Canadiens team,

Chicago Blackhawks, Anaheim Ducks, who said, eh, maybe if everything breaks our way, we'll be better than we were last year. But they kind of know, like, eh, this is what we signed up for. Trust me, no one on Nashville thought it was going to be this long a season as it's shaping up to be. I don't know that there's a miracle 2019 St. Louis Blues run in this team at all. Sure, there's a Ryan O'Reilly there who was there in 2019 as well with the St. Louis Blues, but this is a totally different beast. for Stephen Stamkos, who isn't used to this. It's going to be a real long season for Brady Shea,

who isn't used to this. And for Jonathan Marcheseau, who, albeit in, you know, less a time than Stephen Stamkos, is not used to this whatsoever. And this is not what they signed up for. It's going to be a tough January, February, March, April for these guys. Anything else? Final thing I'll say to those of you who are watching in the chat right now,

tweet at us. This is a good reminder. Tweet at us at the Sheet Hockey. You can include it if you want. Hashtag Sheet Heads. As we saw here during the show, this got sent in, Jeff. A ahead of tonight's battle of New York. This,

this was a funny tweet. Be dev at Ryan Miller time, uh, 30 tweeted out. She hockey go Sabres. I'm hoping, you know, the origin of this Jersey.

It's a Jersey, the New York on it. I do not. What is that one? I don't know either. I was hoping you knew, but no, no,

I don't. Yeah, no, give that's a title your M-check just tweeted at us as well so What is it Tyler? I can't pull it up but he tweeted the picture of them watching

with our Christmas tree set up and us on the big screen so tweet at the Sheet Hockey how you're watching the show whether it's today, yesterday, throughout the week we want to see all of those Sheetheads Unite that name is really really growing on me whether it's a yesterday throughout the week, we want to see all of those. Sheet heads unite. Um,

that name is really, really growing on me. Um, is it a nine 11 Jersey somewhere in the chat? Just, uh, no, yeah,

it sounds like that's a nine 11 Jersey. Yes. Okay. That's awesome. Oh, that's awesome. Merrick joint Oilers nation every day soon. I want to go back on this. The timing is so bad for me.

Um, I love that show. What else we have in the chat? Let's finish up with a couple of chat questions here. Let me just fly through. Marco just writes in, Bill Barber, rightly or wrongly, hang on, rightly or wrongly, you know what I think about when I think of Bill Barber?

Like a really good player, Stanley Cup champion, diving. Sorry. He was one of the great divers of all time. Larry Robinson for, okay, Pierre was such a good guest because

okay, Pierre was such a great guest because he and Jeff can go deep with each other respectfully in unison. Nice dance to listen to. Thanks. I want a Jeff Merrick autograph. Well, not if you spell my last name like that, Big Willie style. Good Lord, man. What else do we have in the chat today?

Honestly believe Yakupov's career would have been very different if McDavid didn't get injured. You know what was weird about that time at Edmondson? You know what was weird about that time in Edmonton? You know what was a thing? And I remember I asked Peter Chiarelli about it, and he shot it down like, no, no, no, no, no, nothing to see here. You know what was a thing in Conor McDavid's first year?

Andre Sequeira looking him off. It was the weirdest thing. Like, he was a rookie, and there'd be, like, a lane there. He'd look off Connor McDavid, like consistently, like every single game. And I'd be like, am I, am I seeing this? And nobody in Edmonton wanted to admit it. But if you're like, just watch the games, like not even just on the power play,

but like five on five, like second has got the puck. Here's McDavid in motion. Just looked at him, looked the other way. Am I the only one that remembers this? Like, someone from Oilers Nation is going to remember this. Tyler Iramchuk, if you're watching, do you remember this? McDavid's first year and Andre Sekar consistently looking him off. Like, it's long enough in the past now that anybody that has that,

that needed to deny it then is no longer there. So they don't have to deny it anymore. Please tell me I'm not losing my mind or I wasn't losing my mind then because game in and game out, that was very much a thing. And I couldn't figure out, I asked people like, we're seeing it,

but don't know what's going on there. I'm guessing that might be a generation gap thing between you and me there, Zach. I don't remember that. I'm not going to lie. No, I don't remember that. Yeah. There's another one here.

You want to, this one pumps your tires. Justin, Justin Starseed. Merrick, you were a slick dog for these excellent intros. Oh yeah, my little pretentious cold open ripping off Saturday Night Live live from New York. We'll be right. Oh, welcome to Sheet. It's a Saturday Night Live ripoff. Like it's nothing that I came up with. It's particularly brilliant. I just grew up watching Saturday Night Live. I thought, well, cold opens are cool. Used to do them with the MBSW podcast with Wish.

And I'm like, okay, you've got this new show. Let's do something cool. Thing is, like, sometimes the rehearsals for it are pretty dicey, eh, Zach? Like today's. We barely got in under the wire. Because our VizRT wasn't working. But we got it in. We got it in.

Okay, so here, I want to let everybody know, here's what is happening on the network. So, Morning Cup of Hockey. If you're not watching that show, you're doing yourself a disservice because it is one of the best hockey shows going, period. 9 o'clock Eastern at our daily face-off YouTube channel. Pat Maroon will be on tomorrow. Today, Kevin Shattenkirk was on.

Do yourself a favor and check that one out in the archives. The day after he retires, that one out in the archives. The day after he retires, he shows up with the boys. Oilers Nation every day. Tyler Ennis tomorrow. Leafs morning take J.S. Jaguar. I always loved J.S. Jaguar. I don't care.

Say whatever you want about the chest protector and the pads and all that. Man, was he ever great. And a really good dude, too. On Barnburner on Friday, Darren Dreger will be aboard and then some goofball by the name of America's on Securus and Price on Friday as well. So that's what's happening around the network. If you're new to Daily Faceoff, please do yourself a favor and check out the,

we have like a million shows. Like we've got something for you. Like we really do. Check this one out. And I always encourage people, make sure you start your day with Johnny Lazarus, Colby Cohen, the best hockey show going.

It is morning cuppa hockey, Monday to Thursday. Okay. Nine o'clock Eastern at our daily face off YouTube channel, then available podcast available on YouTube, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

On behalf of Zach, uh, Merrick signing off, enjoy the rest of your day. Swear to keep you for like an extra 15 minutes while I, well, Zach and I just sort of meandered around a couple of things. Thanks for joining me today. The sheet returns tomorrow, three o'clock Eastern, right here on our daily Face Off YouTube channel. Thank you to everyone for the downloads as well. If you're listening on the podcast, rate, review, all the likes, all those things, and all the blessings will come your way. Thanks so much for joining me today.

We'll talk to you later. I slept 16 hours last night Every day this week Every day this month I can't get out my head Lost all ambitions day to day Guess I'm caught all right I went to the doc, man

He tried to give me a little medicine I'm like, nah, man, that's fine I'm not against those methods, but I knew It's me, myself, and others Gonna be fixing my mind I didn't want to break it I turned on the music. I do want to break it.

I turned on the music. It's enough. I don't think you sometimes lose it. I've been on the dance the way I roll. In the dead dark night.