The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Chinakhov on the Move ft. Don Waddell & Steven Ellis

Episode Date: December 30, 2025

Today on The Sheet, Jeff Marek and Greg Wyshynski dive into a massive day around the NHL as Columbus Blue Jackets GM Don Waddell joins the show to break down the Yegor Chinakhov trade to Pittsburgh, the Mason Marchment acquisition, mid-season CBJ evaluations, and what comes next in Columbus’ rebuild. Plus, Steven Ellis checks in live from Minnesota with a comprehensive World Juniors breakdown — and yes, Jeff and Zack absolutely should be there too… if not for back-to-back flight cancellations derailing the itinerary. An action-packed, insight-heavy episode covering NHL trades, prospects, CBJ storylines, and everything happening in Minnesota as the WJC heats up.SHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼Bauer: https://www.bauer.com/👍🏼Uber Eats: https://www.ubereats.com/caReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@FNBarnBurner🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff#TheSheet #NHL #ColumbusBlueJackets #CBJ #NHLTrade #Penguins #WorldJuniors #WJC #DailyFaceoff #JeffMarek #GregWyshynski #StevenEllis Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Okay, so welcome to Minneapolis. In another universe, that's probably the right opening for this program. But not in the universe where you and me are sharing oxygen. I don't know, Zach, do you want to recreate? The end of yesterday's show. If you can bring your music down, that'd be great. There we go. There we go.

So as we're doing the thank yous and the goodbyes to yesterday's program, like honestly, I think I'm into like, you know, thanking Greg, thanking Eric Erlinson, who, by the way, really caught it on social media yesterday. After talking about the Florida Panthers not answering the bell, you know, if you've followed any of those threads. But there are some irate Florida Panthers fans coming off yesterday. yesterday as the interview with Eric Erlinson.

But nonetheless, I don't think he cares. I don't think he minds. It's all a good fodder. But as we're going off and I'm thanking everybody, we get the email. Flight has been canceled. Move to 645 tonight. The layover in Chicago.

The odds of us actually getting to the world junior hockey championships by this point? I don't know. I want to say 50-50, but then I say 50-50 about just about everything in Lifezac. it's nothing going to happen or it's not everything in life is 50-50 it'll either happen or it won't that's it's the odds that's the odds for everything in your life it's going to happen or not that's it 50-50 that we actually made it there so we'll see we'll try it again tonight

that was literally right as you were wrapping up wrapping up saying goodbye saying thank you email comes through we're very sorry flight's been canceled oh yeah okay thank you very much well we'll try again tomorrow what I've learned in this industry is people don't like to hear travel complaints or travel stories from from media members so we'll knock it off now other than we're going to try to get to Minneapolis later on tonight and I'll remind everybody if you ever find yourself in a situation like this and you need a moment of calm and you need a moment of zen this comes from my good friend Dennis Bayak years and years ago I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there and up there wishing I was down here just

remember that. We're going to talk a lot about the juniors today. We should talk about the Buffalo Sabres as well, who, as we like to say, Zach, they may never lose another game again. And it has to be done with that cadence, too. They may never lose

another game again. Beat the St. Louis Blues yesterday. Nifley will win. Welcome back, Rasmus Dahlene, who's back to the lineup for the Buffalo Sabres. Anyway, coming up on the program today, it is time now for the blueprint, which you're about to listen to and or watch and both here on the program. The blueprint is powered by Fanduel. Download the app today and play your game on Fanduel. So coming up on the program in a couple of moments, he is the general manager of the Columbus Blue Jackets. He is

Don Waddell, who yesterday San Diego Chinikoff to the Pittsburgh Penguins. He's been active as well picking up Mason Marchman from the Seattle Cracken and beating the Ottawa Senators last night and he had his own travel woes or his whole team rather had their own travel woes getting to Ottawa yesterday. Stephen Ellis are from Daily Faceoff who covers the juniors, covers the prospects,

he'll be aboard coming up towards the end of the hour. We'll talk about what we saw yesterday. Focus in mainly on USA and Canada, but also the whole world junior tournament as well, some surprises, some twists, some turns. Some players that have exceeded expectations and others that may have fallen a little bit short so far. I always like to remind people about this tournament.

You know, scout after scout, we'll tell you, don't read too much. Don't read too much into what you see over the course of a couple of weeks after Christmas at this World Junior Hockey Championship, the U20. It is a primarily a development tournament to see where everybody stands against each other in their sometimes draft class but certainly in their peer group so this is like a two-week slice of their careers

scouts watch these players for years and don't just read too much like we've seen teams before and this happens on various draft lists someone has a great world junior hockey championship and you say to yourself well this guy's got to be higher on the list I just saw him play yeah you saw two weeks

you saw two weeks scouts do this for a living and see years and years and years for these players. But nonetheless, this is more than anything else, I think, for casual hockey fans, maybe even some hardcore hockey fans as well. It's a great way to start to get introduced to a lot of these players. You know, once upon a time, it seemed like, and maybe more so in the States than in Canada,

it seemed like hockey players came from like a random factory in Canada, and you didn't really have the backstory. You didn't know who they were, your teams drafted them, and then where do they come from, what's their backstory? I don't know. You're going to have to wait until they get to the NHL and those stories start to get told. Well, tournaments like this, and I will always, by the way, TSN's done a marvelous job with this in Canada. CBC previously had this tournament

and it was always a big deal, but nothing to the extent that TSN has done with it. I always go out of my way to mention how much E.J. Ratic really helped hockey in a number of profound ways, but for the purposes of the world juniors, he was the one that would lobby for years and years and years for the NHL network to get on board with this. That if there was not going to be a U.S. rights holder that was going to air it or do anything with it, it was up to the NHL network, and they are doing it. They are very much doing it.

And it's a great thing because now all of a sudden, by the times James Hagan's gets drafted by the Boston Bruins, you don't have to look very far to find the story. And chances are, even if you haven't seen him at college, you've seen him play hockey generally here at the World Juniors, which is a really big deal now for hockey fans everywhere. So it's a great way to get the backstory told. And so when your team drafts said player, you have an idea of who they are.

You know, other sports have this. You know, by the time a kid makes it to the big leagues, whether it's, you know, basketball, whether it's baseball, football, whatever. You already know the story where they've come from and who they are. Hockey, not so much, although now that is changing. And again, a long-winded story here. But I'm always at this time of year reminded of how much lobbying

and how much hard work EJ. Raddock did to make sure this thing got on the NHL network. So all hockey fans get a chance, not just in Canada watching TSM, but all hockey fans in North America. get a chance to watch some of these players. So we'll get into this with Stephen Ellis. There is a sidebar to Don Waddell in all of this. Now we're going to talk a lot about obviously Columbus issues with Don Waddell, but also we should bring up his World Junior Hockey experience.

Don Waddell was on the U.S. team in 1977, which was the first double IHF sanctioned World Junior Hockey Championship. Now, Soviet Union won that one. They had won the three previous that weren't sanctioned by the double IHF. Soviet Union would run the table. Canada used to send the Memorial Cup champions. So that year, it would have been the St. Catherine's Fin Cups. Other countries would put together, you know, essentially all-star teams to go.

But Don was on the original one. He was one of the OGs in the first tournament. Dale McCourt, Slava Fedosoff would have been there. John Anderson. I think McCourt and Anderson went one, two, and scoring. So anyway, it is from its very humblest beginnings to what you see now, which is a very slick television event and very sophisticated, not just competition between, you know, U20 hockey players, but a way for scouts to evaluate and see players competing against one another

to see where they rank and how they mix with one another. It's become a colossal tournament. And I'll tell you what, it's a tournament that in some ways is more interesting than something like the Olympics. And yeah, we're waiting for Olympic rosters to be released. I know that. In the sense that there is still a mystery about a lot of these players that we don't know. specifically European players who we don't really get a chance to watch.

Like unless you're someone that works at elite prospects and you're watching Ivar Stenberg tape every day, this is your chance to watch them. So there's still a sort of an area of mystique around these players. It's kind of like the way international tournaments used to be until the Iron Curtain fell. You know, part of the thrill of, I mean, my first big one was 76 with the Canada Cup. And I so remember my dad talking to me about a young Peter Stasson. and talking to me about Vladimir Zirila and Yuri Holacek, Vlad Zirala, who was Dominic Hachik's favorite goaltender growing up.

But these guys only existed, well, they existed in two places. These guys existed in the sort of makeup world of myth and you just sort of hear about and they would exist on the pages of the hockey news. And I was a really, really early subscriber to the hockey news and I could not wait until every Thursday would show up and I would just devour it. And that's where you hear about these players. And then in the international tournaments, you actually get to see them play. What we now get in international hockey, you see at the World Championships,

we start at the four nations, you'll see at the Olympics as well, is essentially a bunch of NHLers just divided differently. You know, not on the teams that own their contracts or hold their contracts, but rather the countries that they're from. But there's not a whole lot of mystique because it's still all the same guy. you just see them playing on different teams. And for the world juniors, there still is an air of, I want to see what these guys look like.

I've heard about them. I've seen some clips on the internet, but now I want to get a chance to actually have a full eyeball and have a look at some of these players. And that's one of the reasons why I've always loved this tournament. Our first guest, though, played in the very first,

double IHF sanctioned World Junior Hockey Championships, humbly called the U-20s. He is Don Waddell, not just here to talk about that, but also to talk about his team, the Columbus Blue Jackets, coming off a big win last night against the Ottawa Senators, where once again the goaltender was a star. Jack Greaves playing back to back. I'm not sure how your analytics department felt about that.

I always thought the analytics guy said, don't do that. But first of all, Don, thanks so much for stopping by today. How are you? I'm good, Jeff. Thank you for having me. Before we get into the trade yesterday, and I want to talk about Mason-Marchment, CBJ, I want to get some time about Jack Greaves as well. I was telling your story a little bit,

going back to 1977, which would have been the fourth U-20 tournament, but the first one officially sanctioned by the AAHF. Like that is the root then to the fruit now of what we're seeing. And we found a picture on the USA hockey website, and there you are, third from the right, five foot nine, five foot ten defender for Team USA. What do you remember from, and that's the picture taken in the then Czechoslovakia,

What do you remember from that team, that tournament, and it's nowhere, nowhere to what it is today. But take us back to 77 before we get into Blue Jacket stuff. It was interesting because, like you said, it's the old Czechoslovakia where, you know, there was tanks on the road, streets, all guards everywhere with carrying rifles and that. So it was a new experience for all these young people coming from the States. But I can remember the tournament being well attended. you know we didn't win a lot of games but they were competitive you know overall i found out what the black market was because i went over with the suitcase full clothes and came home with

none because they wanted to buy anything you had is blue jeans and everything else so it was pretty interesting experience but i do remember because these gentlemen came up to our room and followed them stuff from us and the guards downstairs told us after that we're lucky we're live, because we're letting people in our room to buy our clothes. But, yeah, it was a great opportunity for me. And looking back at it, 50 years, it's hard to imagine. But it was a lot of fun. You know, Slava Fedesoff was a star in that tournament.

Ben Gustafson, Washington Capital Great, was a star in that tournament. John Anderson and Dale McCourt. And like, you're nodding because you remember all these names. Like, this would have been maybe the first time you'd played against Fetisov in your career. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like, what was it like, like, playing against all these, I was saying, like, the thing about these tournaments is that the U-20, it's a lot of guys you never have seen before play. Like, what was it like playing against some of these players that you only read about in the hockey news?

Yeah, it was interesting, but I got like T-Soft, these guys, you know, until you actually see them, you know about them, until you actually see them. And I can remember we went over, I think when we got there the first day, we went over, we didn't play, we watched a couple of the games. And when you put your eyes on these players, you know, some of the great Canadians like Dale and Johnny, you know, you say, wow, this is a whole other level. You know, here's a most of us are college kids coming over. I was a sophomore in college. And so it was quite the experience. And then obviously I was fortunate to play the next year or it was Gretzky's year. And that was a whole other avenue for me to be able to play against him.

quick final thought on this too like this is like you look at how far USA hockey has come now and you know United States like you mentioned that tournament in 77 you guys you beat Sweden and you tied Poland and you lost the other games and USA came in seventh and now they are the you know two-time defending world junior championship champions here and you look at you know how this program has developed and like they could three-peat they could very well three-peed I have a quick thought on what's happened with USA hockey in 50 years. Well, if you go back and look at stat, there was something like in the NHL at that time,

5% of American players and, you know, how the U.S. across our country, the grassroots programs have just spiraled in all these. You know, we're drafting kids from every state now. You know, it was Michigan, Minnesota, Massachusetts before. Now we're drafting kids from every state. And just it's such a credit to USA hockey, have they been able to develop all these programs and all these non-traditional hockey markets at that time.

Obviously, you know, California was a big one when Wayne got traded there. And then, you know, Florida, when Florida started talking about having teams, you know, their hockey took off, same in Texas. So very non-traditional hockey markets and started becoming very big youth programs. Well, listen, take a bow because that was the origins. And now we're seeing USA every year at every level. I'm competitive with all the other top countries. Okay, the Chinikoff deal. One of the things that I think struck people right away is it's an indivision deal, right, to another metropolitan team.

And the one thing that I wondered about here is I wonder if there's like a metro division tax that may be, okay, if you want me to trade them in the metropolitan division, it's going to cost you X. But if it's the central, it's not going to cost you X. Is that accurate or was this the deal that it was going to be regardless of what division he went to? Yeah, I never look at it that way. Obviously, you're aware of it. But I always say, you know, don't worry about us. You know what you're giving up. So don't worry about that.

Worry about what you're getting. And if this is the best deal, regardless of what team it is, then let's move on it. Obviously, we had multiple teams in the mix of it. but Pittsburgh from the start when this all started, Kyle and I have talked about this more than him and I probably talked for our wife, but he's always been very, very courteous and very aggressive as far as trying to make a deal.

So, you know, it just came together. We came out of the freeze there and started talking to teams and Kyle stepped right up there, so we made the deal with Pittsburgh. You know, I'm always curious about any type of deal. Like what is the one piece that gets it over? the finish line. I wonder, okay, is it, you know, the minute the dubus said,

okay, I'll throw in a second, does that, like, close it? Is it, is it the play? Is it Danton Hinen? Like, was there one thing, Don, that was like, if you can do this, then we have a deal. You know, we had some players offered to us that just, we weren't comfortable with, you know, just with Hinen. And we just felt that, you know, he's got a lot of experience.

I go back to the trade that line last year. We wanted some experience. Went out and paid some fifth and six rounds. round picks just add some depth. Well, we got that player now. And we got them early. So we run across injuries. You know, he's here in our organization and he'll get a chance to play. Obviously, the picks were important. We've given up our second round pick and a fourth round pick to get marchment. So to get a second back was very important to us. And then, you know, being able to get the third for the following year, you know, draft capital, I always say it's, you're going to use

it two ways. You're going to draft players that you hope become bluebackets in the future, or we're going to use them to make our team better. So it's always nice to have that draft capital to be able to, if you need to make a move using those pieces. You know, you mentioned Mason Marchman a second ago, and I want to pick up on him. But one more final thought here on the Chinnikov deal. Were you surprised, caught off guard?

I don't know how to describe it at the trade request, at how things had gotten to a point where the player wanted a change of scenery. Yeah, because I met with my janin last year. He wasn't happy at the end of last year. you know, he started off the season very well. He's one of our best players, and he got hurt. When he came back, you know, you miss two months of the season. You're never going to be up the speed.

And then we didn't win some games. And then toward the end, we start winning games, putting ourselves back into it. And he was out of the lineup and didn't get back in, you know, Dean didn't make a lot of changes to the lineup when things are going well. So we had our meeting at the end of the season, you know, it was okay. He was disappointed, but nothing, I didn't expect this. So when it came out in the summertime, and I think, You know, we talked about it with him and his representation at that time.

You know, it was not probably the thing he wanted it. You know, sometimes you speak in Russian, and you forget that everything's going to travel everywhere these days. So we were just wanting to hear about that way. You know, I've had been doing it for a long time. I've had a lot of players that trade, make trade requests. It's the first one that became so public. So we had that. But then, you know, come training camp, you know, I told the agent that, you know, we'll see what we can do.

But, you know, he's an asset to us. I'm not just going to part ways because the player asked for it. And I give him credit, came in two weeks before camp. We came in great shape. And then, you know, we started this season. And it was playing some games in and out, playing 10 minutes, some nights, 15, 16. And they just, we could tell it wasn't going to work. And so we got to a point where we just said, you know, right about December there,

I said, you know, we'll get through, we had some injuries at that time. We'll get through these injuries. And then once we picked up Marchman, it gave us the flexibility. ability to have moving chinny on, and that's why, right after the break, we did it. With Mason Marchman, and I will get to the Islander's incident here in a couple of seconds, I'm always curious about the, how long have you wanted the player? How long have you wanted Mason Marchman? Well, I was in on him when he signed in Dallas, when I was still in Carolina, And we were right there at the finish line with him.

And so I've done a lot of homework on him, not only as a player, but as a person. And unfortunately, at that time, for Carolina, he decided to go to Dallas. So I followed this player pretty closely throughout his career. And, you know, it was in a spot in Dallas where I don't think Jimmy Neal really wanted to trade him, but he had cap issues and had to make the move. And, you know, it goes to Seattle. And then for whatever reasons, you know, it didn't work out. or, you know, Jason felt that it was time to move them on.

So we were, you know, very aggressive of trying to get them when he became available. This is a pretty physical hockey player. As you well know, anyone's watched Mason Marchman play, knows. You already have, you know, the toughest player in the NHL in Matthew Olivier. I really do wonder, is it kind of, are we getting back to this idea that it just can't all be skill? it's been such a race to skill the last 20 years in the NHL is the pendulum swinging back and there will be more Mason Marchments

that are in more demand for NHL teams like here's what I wonder about Don essentially what I'm trying to get out here is in an NHL world where everybody can skate and everybody can shoot and everybody can playmake as a manager do you find yourself asking what else can a player give me and is that thing you know what Olivier

and what Mason Marchman can do yeah no it's a great great point great question you know for us you know we feel like we got some pretty good skill players a little bit on the smaller size uh you know we go back to last summer and we had a charlie coil mild wood uh bigger bodies uh you know we got the kent johnsons are very high-end skill players that are not big players so we always had intention to try to get a little bigger and we did that in the summertime and then obviously mason brings that too so I don't think it's swinging as maybe as fast as every team's got a different makeup of what they need. You know, some high best teams in the league right now, you know, the forwards are very talented, but they're big.

And, you know, so we felt with our team, with some of our skill guys being a little bit on the smaller side that continue to add some size that can play. This league, you can't have guys that can't play. That we're going to certainly look at that. And, you know, we felt Mason was a guy that would add to our hockey club. This is a really active team, right? In the last couple of weeks here, you've been right at it, trying to bring in, and in Chinikov's case, remove from. When you look at your squad right now, like, I'm a big fan of Boone Jenner.

We talk about those intangibles. We just talked about a couple of seconds ago with Mason Marchman. Like, I remember going down the street from my house to go watch the Oshawa Generals pay all the time, and I used to come back and just Boon General. Boon, Jenner, Boon Jenner, Boon Jenner, Boon Jenner. I always wonder, how often do people, other general managers call? You know, like, hey, you're having a hard time getting him sign? What's going to happen with Jenner here?

I know that's not someone that you'd want to part with. But is there an update on anything with, like, I wonder about a couple of players. I wonder about Mason Marchment. I wonder about Boone Jenner. And I wonder about Charlie Coyle as well. Yeah. And what I've told represents that representation throughout the year is let's get through to the break. Let's get to the Olympic break.

You know, Boone was coming off an injury last year where he missed a lot of games. And I say, let's make sure he gets back to where he wants to be and we want him to be. And certainly he missed a little time this year. But if you watch our games, you know, he blocks shots. He does everything that you can ask the player to do. So the way I look at, I don't worry so much about UFAs, you know, there's a time you got to make a move, of course. But if a player, I look at that this year, particularly with the Olympic break, if a player wants to be here and we want them here, we'll find a deal. It's, you know, there's very few players that I've ever lost because I couldn't find a deal.

You know, obviously there's going to be a few that just priced out or whatever. But I really feel, you know, in Charlie's case and Marchman's case, it's a two-way street. As much as we want them, they've got to want to be here, too. So give them some time here, let them settle in with their family, see if they love Columbus,

and then at the right time, we'll try to get something done. Jack Rees has been a great story for the Blue Jackets. And again, like I mentioned, off the top, I think all of our eyebrows are raised. Like, same goaltender back-to-back. Once upon a time,

you remember, like, that was a regular occurrence. Like, you're the number one goal-tending, you're playing back-to-back games. You just deal with it, and now the feeling is, the numbers don't support it. But there was Jack Reeves in that again last night in another three-star performance for Jack Reeves.

You have a thought on this goaltender specifically this year? I think a lot of us looked at this season and said, you know what? It feels like around Christmas time, this guy will be ready to grab the number one spot. How does his GM feel about it? Well, he certainly played well all season. And I think one of the reasons he could play back to back first.

You've got to look at, you know, the out how many shots he was taken the night before which wasn't too bad and then the style he plays you know he's not a big guy some you know maybe that sometimes works against him with some of the high shots but it might work for him because you know he when he goes down he gets up pretty quick he's very athletic and he's got a great glove so um you know we didn't have a concern about coming we talked about it after the game and didn't have any concern because uh of this first of all is a great athlete. And as you said,

he's one of the best kids I've ever been able to manage. So, you know, these are the kind of guys you pull for. And I know the players love to play in front of them. So, you know, I don't think you're going to make it a regular,

you know, with the travel and everything and, you know, type of games. But I think in this situation, it made sense for us to come back with them in Ottawa. And he proved this right. What is the difference now with Damon's,

Severson, who looks like a much different defenseman than we've seen the last couple of years. What's the difference? He's playing a lot more confidence. He's playing with a lot more confidence. He's getting more ice time right now. And I think, you know, playing until Rorensky went out, he was playing with the Z. I think that gives him the last few games. We had switched him up. He was playing with Provaloff for a long time. But I think playing with Werensky's helped his game. You know, he doesn't feel like he has to be that offensive guy that sometimes he wants to be. And then just watch him play here with the Tatechuk, the last few games with Sorensky being out, you know, he just looks so comfortable now. And, you know,

we talk about it this morning. We were talking about it that, you know, whatever he's doing, we've got to keep it going because he's playing his best hockey in the year and a half since I've been here, that's for sure. Yeah, he looks fantastic for you guys. I want to swing back to something I mentioned earlier quickly. How did the general manager see the sequence with Mason Marchment, Matthew Schaefer, and then Matthew Berzal, which resulted in a fine for the Islanders player? How did you see that?

Well, you know, if you go back and look at it, obviously on that play, Mason tripped them when it didn't knee up or anything like that, that some people were saying if you, watch the clip he tripped them and i think probably the the islanders which you know i understand that you know felt that maybe there wasn't the involved you know they're watching it like everybody else was at fast pace um you know i don't really want to speak you know i i think some of the jams that talked to were surprised about you know that of the incident um and you know for me when these things happen uh you know you're just hoping your players not hurt and uh you know you move on from it.

You move on from it. You just hate to see this happen. You know, this is, our game is, you know, hard to play as it is. And these kind of incidents, you know, I know I watched it on the highlights on one of our sports center, probably nine or ten times that night. It's not good for our sport either to see it. But to me, that page is turned, and now we continue to move forward and try to win hockey games. Well, it gets me to a place of conversation that I'm curious to your thoughts on as someone

who will have these discussions. on a regular basis. And that is, so that turns into a fine for Matthew Barzal. There's only been three suspensions this year. And it's all like game here, game there. There's like nothing big. Having this conversation on the show yesterday, I know there's not a lot of runway on the season so far.

So maybe it's too early to have the conversation. But as a manager who's been at this for a really long time, are you surprised we've only seen three really small suspensions this year? Or is it just like, oh, just one of those years? Yeah, I, you know, I guess I'd have to watch every single, you know, we see almost every highlight, of course, that happens. And, you know, the biggest thing you want is the consistency from whoever's making these decisions. I've said that for years and years that, whether it was Coley for a while,

Brendan Shanahan and now George, the consistency is what we all want. And if this is the consistency that's going through the league right now, and how it's being handled. You got to accept that and continue to go in that direction. Another sort of GM issue with having this conversation a few weeks ago on the show, too. I'm curious when the last, here's the one for you, when was the last time you had a conversation about we need to make the goli equipment smaller? That's been a while for me.

Probably last summer I did. I don't, there's some things I stay out of. I probably involved in too many things. It's probably one of the things that have stayed out. I know the league and Kay Whitmore do a great job of trying to control that and watch it. You know, these guys are shooting the puck hard off of a goalie. I'll say, boy, I need more equipped. These sticks that we make these days, these $350 sticks that last 10 minutes,

they've made them where they really get a lot of whip out. Guys are really shooting the puck. So I don't get carried away with it. You know, I know people are watching them. somebody's taking care of it, and that's all we can hope for. Well, the point that I wanted to get to with it is, you know, I remember Elaine Vigno making this point. He said, if, you know, if you want to score more goals, then the shooters need to work on their shot in the off season and not just lift. You know, goalies go and work on their craft and forwards go and lift weights.

And he was right. Like, everybody shoots now. We know all about things like, you know, pre-shot movements and all these, you know, foolishly we were taught when we were kids. You can't teach touch. Goal scorers are born, not made. man, all the things now that we know that we're relied to about, like, the way that offense can be coached now and how goals can be manufactured and you don't just have to rely on drafting a quote unquote natural goal score.

Like to me, this is one of the areas where the game has changed profoundly because now we all understand, yeah, you can teach touch and everybody can shoot. The technology's there with the sticks and the skating and all of that and everyone's got shooting coaches and all different offensive designs as well, I just laugh because Elaine Vino was right. If you want to score more goals, work on your shot. Don't worry about the goalie's equipment. Yeah, that's a great point because, you know, we went through a, obviously on the competition

committee where some people thought the net should be bigger. And I never thought that would, I never thought that was the answer. But, you know, there are some people that talked about it. And then, well, and that's why you probably hear, the most thing you probably hear from coaches talk about games is we need more traffic. You know, we need more traffic in front of the net, you know, so the goalie can't see it because, you know, the goalies are going to make most saves. If they see it, most time they're going to stop it. Obviously, there's the point blank ones that are more trouble, but if they see a puck from the blue line, they're going to stop it. And, you know, they're all good and capable.

So, you know, create more traffic. And then you see there's a lot of skill in the league. You know, go back for how many years ago and you had the Michigan play started. Now you got guys doing that, trying. And even around that front of the net, I'm always amazed at the hockey sense some of these guys have. Or, you know, they're close to the goalie and usually would try to take a shot or try to beat them. And then they throw up behind her back to a guy standing in the post wide open. You know, I give the players a lot of credit because the hockey sense and being using your imagination to create those.

chances. I think it's a tremendous for our game. Last question for you. We'll let you get on with what's going to be another busy day is Adam Fantilli. I don't know. I know. It's like what's not to like about this player? Where's the GM at right now

on Adam Fantilli? Yeah. I think he's taken, you know, every year he came in the league as a young player and every year he's gotten better. He had a little slow start last year. second half of the year he was tremendous for us and this year he's going from there you know he

he's he loves to be on the ice he loves to play this game he's a dedicated hockey player you can see all that and now you're seeing the results from it you know and the guys love to play with them you know he's being he's more of a shooter sometimes than just a natural passer as a centerman but even last night we had the play where he made a great play at the blue and threw it to Marchman, and he threw it across to Marchenko is one of the prettier goals we scored this year. So he's capable of making those high-end plays. So he's only going to get better.

Yeah, you forget how young these players are and how they came in and 18 years old. He's going to continue to get better. You know, last time you and I spoke about him, I brought up some point about not being 100% every single moment, every single time. Like, he seems like I try to pay attention to him as much as I can. He seems like he's a different player now. Like he gets that comfort. And when I watch the,

we started this conversation up and talking about the juniors, like I'm watching Michael Misa play. It's not a knock. It's just like this is where he's at. Everything is 100% on every single play, not mixing up speeds or anything like that. And I look at Fantilla and I go like,

he was like that, you know, a couple of years ago as well. Like that is one of the things that kids need to get to at a place in their career. Yeah. And the other thing you've got to remember her now. And when they're like Adam's learning, you know, they're going to get paid, they believe, on their goals and points.

You know, there's a lot of money being paid. And things are scoring, they're not going to make as much money. But what you learn is, and I think Adams, we had these conversations with this representation in him, you know, as he gets more 360, you know, 200-foot player, that's going to get more ice time from his coach. If you're responsible defensively, you're going to get more. ice time and then that's going to give you more opportunities offensively too so don't worry about the points there if you're a skill player and you deserve it they're going to come you're you're going to

make so much money in your life that you're not going to have to worry about it but don't make that your focal point of just worry about you know if you you know now i don't think adams like that you know but i've been around guys if you lose five three and they score three goals they're happiest can be you know adams that one night player is a team guy but you know to my i always say these young guys, just play your game. If you do everything right, you're going to make mistakes. But if you play where the coach, you know, you see him out there at the end of the games, you see him out there in tough situations, that's because the coach trusts you,

and that's going to lead to more offense for you. You're always generous with your time. Don, thanks so much for stopping by again. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the trips down memory lane, too. I've always wanted to ask you about 77. So thanks for indulging me this time around. Always the pleasure to be with you, Jeff.

Happy New Year to you and your guests. to you as well, to you and your family. And best of luck with the Columbus Blue Jackets and best of luck at the Olympics for USA hockey as well. Thanks so much for this, Don. Thank you. There is Don Waddell, the general manager of the Columbus Blue Jackets yesterday,

pulling off a move that a lot of people saw coming. We just weren't sure when it was going to happen. Hugo Chinikoff goes to the Pittsburgh Penguins, Danton Hine, and a second and a third goes the other way. You know what's wild about Chinikoff, Zach? And you heard Don talk about an incredibly skilled player, no surprise that

Kyle Dubus was in on him early once the trade request went out. When you look at his wrist shot, like not snapshot, what do you think it clocks at? I was talking to someone about this last night. His wrist shot

I can even, yeah, 95. Really? And it's been clocked. There's a stick company that did a test with him. It clocks as high as 101. wrist shots so if someone maybe it's dan mused in the pittsburgh penguins who knows if someone can find a way just uh you know just uh he takes he takes he's one of those old school shooter kind of guys yes he pull yard view is kind of like this but he didn't

shoot as hard as jenikov they would do like a long drag before they released it used to see this in the 70s and 80s all the time. You don't have time to do it anymore. Like you can't. Like the traffic and the pressure is just like too much. You can't do it. But when Chinikoff gets space to let that shot go, yeah, 95. And clocked as high as 101.

Wrist shot, but that's what I've always wanted for the skills competition. Just do slap shots. What about wrist shots? Wouldn't you be curious who's got the hardest wrist shot? Like what do you see more in games right now? Wrist shots or slap shots? Yeah, wrist shots. I think there should be a way, you can do it in some video games.

It's not as applicable, but a combination of time, accuracy, and strength. So it would be how hard the shot is, where there's a weighting factor in real time about the target competition, where it's not just hitting the targets, because you could go up there and basically put pucks on targets. but how quickly can you get it done shooting the puck as hard as you can and hitting all the targets accurately where like there's a waiting factor here so how hard it was shot in the amount of time and hitting all the targets combines to a final score and then wading it out on a leaderboard I think would be kind of cool like they do that kind of stuff in video games yeah where it's not just one element of it

it's all of them put together I think that would be kind of cool to add into it because that could play in the factor of how hard the wrist shot is. Yeah. There's two things that I want. I want fastest backwards skater and hardest wrist shot.

If we ever get back to do on like skills competitions. Hardest wrist shot and fastest backward skater. Would you want them doing on the fastest backwards skater just the laps like they do on the forwards or would you have it be a straight line? The pushback that I've gotten on the fastest

backwards skater is, yeah. And no team. wants to see their player get injured at all-star skills competition oh he's out for the season what happened fucking all-star game crashed into the boards going backwards yeah the all-star i know that's what i'm asking about if you'd want it straight line because i feel like that reduces injury risk of injury i guess yeah i don't know put padding on the boards i don't know around the corners i don't know what you have to do but to me it's just like a really

natural curiosity the other one and this will never happen i know why i even bother mentioning it. Fastest referee. Yeah. I think we've said that one, the referee skills competition. Referey skills. I think we've talked about that on the show.

Yeah. You know what I just thought about? Who can lay it flat? Who can lay it flat? Like the saucer pass where it doesn't bounce the drop on the face off? It's like a zoomed in camera

and it goes sticks. Yeah. You know, I was just thinking about it, you know, when you watch the guys do the fastest skater and they don't wear the helmet so the hair is blowing in the wind? Oh, yeah. the backwards skater, no helmet.

I would hope for, like, reducing injury. They wear the helmet, but the hair blowing this way on the guy's head as he skates backwards. Like Chris Tanev's hair coming out over his sport. That's really good. But, you know, no, I don't think. With all due respect, Chris Tenev. I just mean because his hair, his hair is the first thing that came to my mind, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Okay, let's see if Stephen Ellis has a thought on this one as well. Stephen Ellis, who's actually in Minneapolis, where Zach and I are supposed to be, but air travel has had different ideas. Stephen Ellis joins us now on the sheet. So how's our Airbnb doing? You lonely? It's a little bit lonely. It's also very icy outside.

So when you guys arrive eventually, don't slip. I was in an Uber yesterday that basically crashed into a snowbank. So, you know, it's an interesting place. Well, can you, like, put some, like, salt. on the sidewalk before Zach and I get there like so we're not not doing a triple indie when we're trying to walk to the door I haven't I haven't checked if salt's illegal here

but it seems like they don't use any of it okay whatever gravel anything I don't know table salt I don't know I don't know what you could do I'm not sure but straw I'll find some paper towel I don't know whatever you can do plastic bag it's wild man it's wild

so just talking to Don Wadella a couple of seconds ago GM of the Columbus Blue Jack He was in the very first. Technically, it wasn't the first, because there were three that were non-sanctioned, but the first double IHF sanctioned U-20, which is the World Junior Hockey Championships, as we all know. So this goes back 50 years. So there's nice, so Fetisov stories and Dale McCourt and John Anderson, essentially, Ben Gustafson, these types of guys. When you look at the tournament now, first of all, Czechia, like, as told the beginning of this tournament, don't sleep on Chequette.

they could be the ultimate dark horse here through all of it. I look at, listen, Canada, USA got pushed by the Slovak. Yes, that was an exciting game. That game was super exciting. Canada blasted Denmark, not a whole lot to learn there. In a squeaker with Latvia, playing Latvia if you're a Canadian is the feeling you have. When you're wearing a tight belt and you've just had a big meal, that's the way every single shift feels like.

And the Czechia game was just sloppy on both sides. I'm just be blunt about the whole thing. We'll start with Canada. What have you learned three games in about this Canadian team, if anything, given that they're not going to have like their first significant test until Finland? I've learned that Michael Hage is the best player in this team right now. That is a guy that's just like,

you see him shoving past guys, getting the puck to the net, winning all the battles. He's the one getting the puck to his line mates. And that second line's been very good. You look at Brady Martin. We know how good Brady Martin can be. the farm kid uh you look gabin mckenna it feels like he's been great on the power play in particular i think it's just trying to find out how to wake up everybody else and we saw that

yesterday i wrote earlier this week that this was a situation where they needed those big stars to finally show up they needed the guys like michael misha porter martone and uh you know brady coots and other guys play in the nchel they needed those guys to come up and and be a difference maker and they were all last night so i also really like seeing keaton verhof play i thought he looked really good, jumping in after not playing the first couple of games. So I think it'll be interesting to see kind of how they manage the lines the rest of the way, because it is hard to feel super confident just because you beat Denmark, because if anything, they were better against Denmark in the pre-tournament.

But I think overall, they're going against the finish team that has had struggles against tougher competition. I know they've only lost one game, but they only scored that one goal. They weren't generating a lot of quality chances. And they beat Denmark, not exactly a tough competition, but Denmark also played them really hard. So I feel like of Canada, it's just, they got to go in here with all the confidence. They got to look at this last game and say, okay, yeah, we dominated.

It wasn't a very tough game. But you've got to go out there and make sure you're not, you've got to start fast, you've got to start hard, and you've got to make sure that you're outworking Finland, because Finland can outwork you. There's one player specifically. that I want to get your thoughts on. And that's Brady Martin. Now, I was having a conversation with someone texting back and forth watching the game last night, not in Minnesota, at home instead. I'm not sure if I've mentioned our travel issues so far this year. But, you know, the point that we sort of arrived to was, you know, for all the top players, right, and all the top guys end up on Team Canada, there is such a focus on skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, skill, and you need that, obviously. But one of the reasons why Brady Martin really stands out as a unicorn is nobody plays like that anymore. And the guys that do play like that don't find their way onto the World Junior team.

You know, once upon a time when Canada was reeling off like, you know, three gold medals in a row, five gold medals in a row. There was like six or seven Brady Martins on the team. And now there's one. And generally, there's none. it's just so much of a premium on skill which all the top guys want to do I just wonder like

is this the sort of cost of having too many players focused too much on skill like there is about like Caleb Day inouye is a wonderful 200 foot player but generally like all the guys that find themselves on this team

they're there just because of skill has anything been lost like I'm trying to figure like why Canada has performed poorly the last couple of seasons and we don't know what's going to happen this year is it like this is it Like, this is going to sound stupid, but it's not the first time I've sounded stupid.

Is it that there's too much of an emphasis on skill with Canadian training now? It's funny, because you look at last year's team, and I'd argue the biggest issue with that was they didn't take enough skill. They didn't take Zane Perak. They didn't take Michael Misa, and they took a guy like Matthew Caterford, and they took some other guys, like Cole Bodwin, who was on this team right now, and I feel like he's not having a good tournament. But I think overall, it's, yeah, there's definitely more skill, but you've got to come together as a team. And you look at kind of the way international hockey has evolved the last couple of years,

where you got the World Junior Summer Showcase, that's the one time the Canada and the USA gets to play as the U-20 team. But then Sweden's playing a ton of tournaments. Finland's playing a lot of tournaments. Czechia, Slovakia, Germany, Switzerland, they play in all these different tournaments in the summer. Sweden plays a back-to-back tournament in August. So there's a lot more built-in chemistry there. and when you look at Canada at the U-18s, they've won gold the last two years,

and you'll call the success of the U-17s, but you specifically look at the U-18 tournament, and they're not bringing the best of the best every time. They're bringing the best of who is available to play because they're not in the CHL playoffs anymore. So I feel like a lot of the built-in chemistry for these other countries has allowed them to come together. Like Latvia, a lot of those guys have played together at the Latvian Pro League.

There used to be a point where they were all playing, like a team affiliate of a HAL team out there. And they got to really build that chemistry to the point where they go to the pre-tournament. You know, yeah, they never had a ton of skill, but they knew how to play as a group. They knew how to grind and everyone is together. I think with Canada and the USA in particular, you're more so candidly because they don't have that NTP. It's just trying to find a good role for everybody. Like you look at a guy like Braden Kooch who's playing in the NHL at the start of the season.

He's like a third or fourth liner on this team. You know, part of that is trying to, how do you adjust from being a top line player on your junior team and now go into this role? And I feel like there's so much adjustment going on. as opposed to a team like Lanfia where you have a guy who will be playing third line. Well, that's what he plays all year long. He knows how to handle that role. He's not going to try and do too much, and there's that. So I always feel like there's a bit of a chemistry issue that Canada deals with.

That's not a new thing. But I think because every other country has kind of caught up and how to develop better for this tournament throughout the year, I feel like it's something where it might just be a little bit overblown and that maybe the Canada's team right now is not any worse or better than it was in 2006 or 7. and it's just everyone else is kind of caught up. Makes sense. USA, exciting game,

a comeback game for the United States. It's a lot of fun to watch. James Higgins really planted a flag yesterday in that game and reminded people why there was talk last year of him going first overall. AJ Spellacy, I thought, was out there just playing rock and roll for all three periods. Just wanted to flatten everything.

He did Chicago Blackhawks third-rounder. He just wanted to flatten everything that he came near. he was a lot of fun to watch yesterday. How do you see the two-time defending champion USA so far and from what you've seen? Goaltending is definitely a bit of an issue in my opinion there, and I think it'll be interesting to see how this team looks when Cole Hudson returns. From my understanding, he's still day-to-day at this point, not completely ruled out of the game tomorrow against Sweden,

which is a big one that decides whether they get first or second in the group, the guarantee of those two spots. I think with them, the guy I want to talk about particular, Will Zellers. This guy barely made this team. He wasn't even a name to the preliminary roster. He has been the best player in this team and maybe a top three player in this tournament. Adam Yerichick, in my opinion, has been the best player in this tournament. We saw that beautiful goal he had against Finland.

But when it comes to what Zellers has been able to do three game winning goals, he's playing on the power play, he's doing a lot of the dirty work in front. and I think with this team we really kind of need to see that depth show up because they lost Trevor Connolly but they didn't have a gay Perrault or Ryan Leonard this year so they had to go out there and find some of these other weapons

and I think Will Horkoff has looked good I think L.J. Mooney had a really good game yesterday kind of after that first period whatever you would call that for the United States and I think just in general it's still a bit of work in progress but I think they're just they're jelling they're jelling really well and the fact that they were able

to battle back I get it it was Slovakia as a young team. But the way they came together and everyone just put their full 1,000% effort there in that second half really showed like this team can be very dangerous. So I would not want to play against them right now. For casual fans that may pay attention to prospects twice a year,

once at the World Juniors and once at the draft, of the draft eligible players that you've seen so far. Listen, Gavin McKenna got a hat-trick last night, and that third goal, as you pointed out, was pretty special. But again, with all the respect, it was against Denmark. You know, whether it's Gavin McKenna, whether it's Saifar Stenberg, whether it's Keaton-Verhoff, we mentioned finally Drew in yesterday for Canada, or any other players whose names we could hear coming up later on in June,

who's done themselves some good already? I'm going to go with Vigio Bjork, a guy that's heading into the season, potential top five prospect, and then he kind of just didn't do a whole lot offensively in Gergaarded in the Swedish hockey league but at this turn actually I'll even go to the pre-termment

in those two games against Canada I thought he was Sweden's best player right now I think he's about the three goals in this tournament he's been very good and when Anton Frundel hasn't been able to drive the offense having a guy like Bjork being able to go do everything else

has been so valuable for them and I think he's been better than Stenberg for sure so I like him I also like Albert Smith's he has been he's been kind of like the new more exciteder. He is the best Latvian prospect in the country's history. So there's a lot of excitement

for him and for this team going forward. Also, he was asked kind of which players he likes to watch in the NHL and he said, I have no favorite players. I'm like, all right, you're blunt, you're to the point. I like that. Meanwhile, York said that he loves to work. He models his game after

Cindy Crosby. So, hey, I like the boldness there. Wow. Future Hall of Fame one of the greatest to ever do it, Rushmore flirting with like that's why not bold enough to say it just put it out there just put it out there um okay provided we get there tonight Zach and I what are we in store for in Minnesota like before before let you go like give us the scene set here you've been to games at both ranks uh buzz in the city buzz around the buildings I know attendance for some games has looked like an issue but give us uh give us a sense of what's happening in

Minneapolis, St. Paul. Well, I've been waiting for you guys specifically to come because there's like these bumper car things that they have, these zero gravity bumper cars that look really fun, right by the way. Oh, yeah? I think that would be a good time. I'm in. Yeah, that'll be good time. I like that. Lots of popcorn. If you like popcorn, there's popcorn being made right over there. That's good. In terms of that, I'm like, I've also waiting a trucked that juicy

loosey, apparently that's the big burger type of thing to have here, a bunch of cheese in the middle. I haven't had that, but yeah, you know, no grocery store near us. So it's going to be a bit of a track to go get some food if you want some. But overall, it's a fun city. It's like I've never been to Minnesota. I've enjoyed it over time. My whole time here between St. Paul and, okay, going to Minneapolis, with the two rings there, being Ritter and 3M, which I wish both were holding the

World Juniors, just because it'd be so close. But then you've got that football stadium there and kind of everything going on there. That is such a cool campus, the University of Minnesota. So I kind of wish I went there for school. Where did you go? I went to Ryerson, Toronto Metropolitan University. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Well, that's nice, too.

You get right downtown Toronto. That's okay. It plugged into the city. That's all right. For an on-the-scene guy like you, that's got to be a nice, sweet spot of the bat. Well, hopefully we'll see you tonight

sometime just before midnight if everything goes fine, starting at 645, and everything is fine with our connector in Chicago. I don't, I'll believe it when I see it. I'll believe it when I see it. Yeah. I'm just waiting.

for the text from Zach and waiting for the text from Zach saying we're canceled again. Yeah, I know. Like, trust me, like all Zach and I are doing just refreshing our email right now is waiting for it to come in from America, Canada. Nonetheless, we cross our fingers and throw salt over our shoulder and hope that things work out well. Thanks, pal. Hopefully we'll see you later on tonight.

Thanks so much. See you, Rumi. There he is Stephen Ellis, who is enjoying Zach, a lovely Airbnb all to his own. Doesn't have to put up with two sloppy roommates like you and me. salt over our shoulders and maybe he can throw some salt on the stairs i will say quickly i do feel bad like obviously we're going to cover hockey but i texted stephen and i was like hey i have these ideas of some things we can do for the sheet and daily face off socials while we're there that aren't necessarily hockey things and some of it was like food related stuff or me like

going to the mall or going to the like here's what you can find in this rink and that kind of stuff and be like, okay, let's put some stuff out there and Steven's just being there for four days on his own, just waiting for us to get there to do this stuff now. Here's all these things that I was like, hey, let's try this. He's on his own.

Here's what, you know what? You know what the show is going to be? So when we get there, I was talking to Lou Nanny again this morning. Lou's great. Like he checked like, you guys here yet? You guys here yet? You know what you want to do? He just want to set up the camera when we go out to dinner,

just like lock off one camera and we'll both put on labs. and just record the conversation. You can see your boy, Jeffrey, just completely geek out. Like, I'm a little, like, 12-year-old fanboy at dinner with Lou. Okay.

All right? There's your show. There's your show. Two-part series, probably. Maybe even longer, depending on how the conversation goes. But that's going to be fun. Get to see Lou.

And if we ever do get there, Lou's going to come on. Lou's coming to the Airbnb. I've already talked him into it. I've already bent his arm. He's coming. So sweet Lou from the I'm excited about that

Yeah man Have you ever met Lou Nanny No I have not Best guy I have not Best guy in the world Best guy you love him I just got a text from Amal

Please tell me your flight is good For tonight Amal For those For those that don't know Amal is our boss Amal Delich My producer from 32 thoughts

A million years ago Who's now our boss Here at Nation Network Well has been for a while Yep So far so good We're scheduled to get to the airport after that. Who knows?

In the Chicago, then into Minneapolis. We'll see how it goes. So we've got a couple of things to do, though, before we get there. One of them is one of our favorite segments around here. I speak personally. Maybe I speak for you too. Hungry for Hockey History is a presentation of Uber Eats. Uber Eats is enabling fans to maximize their fandom all season long

with exclusive game day deals on the app. from game day eats to paper plates and napkins if you're hosting to all the ingredients you need to make your favorite game day dip. Before, during, and after the game, Uber Eats is assisting every hockey fan's experience all season long. What do you have for us today, Zach? Okay, so bear with me here. December 30th, 1978. This one's a little longer.

I'll explain it, but I think worth it. Okay. Correct me if I say the name wrong here as well. well, I apologize, but Frank Udvari, I believe is how to say it. UD. Okay, yeah, so UD, V-A-R-I for those out there becomes the oldest man to referee an NHL game when he comes out of retirement to officiate the game between the New York Islanders and Atlanta Flames at Nassau Coliseum.

Udvary is a few days short of his 55th birthday and 12 years removed from his last game while he's serving as a supervisor of officials when Dave Newell has to leave with a bad cut. Udvari puts on Newell-Stripe shirt, borrows a pair of skates from Islander's center, Brian Trotier, and takes the ice to complete the game. The Islanders win 4-2, even though Udvari disallows a goal by Brian Trotier. That is actually perfect.

That is, yeah, thanks for the skates. Now, guess what? I'm washing out your goal. Yeah. Frank Udvari, by the way. NHL's been blessed to have a lot of great ones. We think about Bill Chadwick is the reason we have hand signals. That was his ID, you know, slash hook, all of it, roughing.

Like, that was Bill Chadwick, the big whistle. Frank Godfrey was a legendary one. And I often think about things like this. The incident that led to the Rocket Richard's suspension in 1955 It was Rocket Richard Punching a linesman, right? Cliff Thompson punched him after an incident with Hal Laco.

And that got Rocket Richard Reschard suspended so he didn't win the scoring title that year, 1995, Bernie Jeffreon did. Clarence Campbell famously went to a Montreal Detroit game at the forum which led to the Richard riots because Campbell had just suspended the rocket

and he wasn't going to win the scoring title, the referee at that game, when Rocket Richard, Punch Cliff Thompson, was Frank Guvary. Now, I like, there's a style, I mean, he did,

I don't think he invented it, but there's a Japanese director, many of you know, by the name of Akira Kurosawa, and in one of his more famous movies, a movie called Roshaman, what happens is, the way the story unfolds is

there's a murder, and then the story is, told from the perspective of all the people around the murder. And before you think I'm being too pretentious, Gilligan's Island did a send-off on this too, like did a spoof on it. So I'll do the high-brow on the low-brow at the same time. But I really wish that at that time, someone would have followed that formula for the Rocket Richard incident, including getting it from the referee's point of view to get Rocket

to get Clarence Campbell, to get coaches, to get fans. Because, and I've got a video of this. I'm really rambling here, but okay, I'm just going to go for it anyway. So I remember, so CBC has this footage, and I've got a copy of it, of the Detroit Red Wings on the train coming back from Montreal after that game that was canceled because of the riot. And Gordy Howe is being interviewed about it, and Gordy doesn't want to say anything about Rocket

even though him and Rocket hated each other like bad just like Crosby and Ovechkin that was they were the original Crosby Ovetchins right was Rocket Richard and Gordy Howe but he was being very diplomatic and being very gaudy about it Ted Lindsay wasn't diplomatic about it

Jack Adams who had been the coach and general manager said like well Rocket was worn like he knew that this was coming and he referred to an incident with a guy for your Toronto Maple Leafs, my name of Bob Bailey. And Bob Bailey was like,

I'll be blunt. He was a rat. Ran around, like, he was a rat. And so, what happened was, there's a fight. And I've never, like, until I saw this, and it's wild. There's a fight at Maple Leaf Gardens. Okay? And like, so all the guys

are on the ice pulling and shoving away. Bob Bailey, I'm sure you'd never thought about doing this in a fight, or thought about it. It might be the only time that's ever happened in hockey. Grabs a handful of snow off the ice and rubs it in rocket richard's face okay you think of like who in the n hl brad marshan who in the n hl would do something like this he grabs a hand and this is like and and he rubs it and rock at richard's face but then rachard goes banana sandwich

rachar goes over the bench and grabs a couple of sticks off the bench to chase bailey around the ice and clarence campbell said if there's anything more like this i'm like you're sitting down for a long time. It's going to be a major suspension. And Jack Adams is talking about, like, hey, you know what? Like, he was warmed after the Bob Bailey incident. And I saw that. I'm like, what's the Bob Bailey incident?

Then I got one of my tape trading friends who sent me the video. I'm like, oh, my God. That is, A, incredible that someone would actually grab snow off the ice and rub it in Rocket Richard's face during a brawl and then Rocket would grab sticks and chase them around the ice. But again, like that comes back to the, you have an incident. journalism 101 or storytelling one-on-one really you have an incident and then you retell the story from a whole bunch of different perspectives and I really wish that there

was one done of the Rock of Richard riots and everything that led up to that because that lived on CBC probably for like five minutes and it's just been in the archives but that was a pretty telling comment from Jack Adams about like he was warned after the Bob Bailey incident and if you hadn't said that on CBC it might have been lost to history And we never would have really known the backstory. Anyhow, Frank Guavari was a referee. Yeah. The snow is kind of awesome.

I've never heard that. Never even thought about doing that. It was right by the board. It was right by the Montreal Canadiens bench. Just like, you know, snow piles up, like, wait a lot. Bob Bailey just grabs a handful right in Rockets' face. You know what? It's kind of funny, too, thinking about.

the difference in reactions how do you like put it down his jersey or put it on his back or something like that because putting it right in the face is going to make you go nuts like if somebody's doing that to me

I'm my wires are crossing oh yeah chasing him with sticks rocket chase of Bailey around the ice with sticks this was when there was respect in the game as the old timers keep telling me that there's no respect

at hockey anymore. Very early on, you and I doing the show, you told me how many of these guys, if you look back at the incidents, how many of these guys would be in jail for things that they've done on the ice? It wasn't as, it was, yeah, there was like no rules, no holds barred, like these guys, honestly, like there, there was like real hatred, real hatred in the game once upon a time. Like, they, well, Bailey and Rocket and Gordian Rocket, like, yeah, they really didn't like each other.

It's kind of why I a little bit liked the Porter Martone. Like, obviously, it's disrespectful what he did, where he tapped the guy on the butt in the, which game was that, the Czech game? Check yeah, I believe. Yeah, check yeah. Like, it's disrespectful, sure, I'm not going to disagree with that. But I don't know.

I like it. It's awesome. Build hate. Hate's good. Hate's good for selling tickets. Hey, just for anybody out there, why do you think Four Nations was so popular? It's not because they were holding.

and singing ringing around the rosy. It was the passing and it was the fast skating. That's why everyone got really excited about the four nations, all the pretty plays. Yeah. It had nothing to do with the bigger picture conversation politically and then bring it on to the ice and all the fights and all the shit talking. And yet, no, it had nothing to do with that. It was because it was good, skilled hockey.

And that was the only reason we watched. That was the only reason anybody outside of hockey circles turned on the game. games and why Brady and Matthew Cichuck were plastered all across television in the U.S. for weeks to come. That was it because it was good, skilled hockey. Yes, that's why hate is fun.

It's good. You know the line. We're going to have to do something about all this fighting, or we're going to have to build bigger buildings and bigger arenas. All right, wrap up and cross our fingers who don't get an email from Air Canada. The sheet is powered by Fandul, player game

with Fanduel. It's the NHL season and Van Duel is your home for all the action on the ice. From Blue Line to Bet Slip, we've got you covered all season with unique promos, live offerings, and more features to let you play your game. Miss Puck Drop, no sweat with a live same game parlay. You can build up your bets until the final buzzer. Download the Fan Duel Sports Book today and play your game. Please play responsibly, 19 plus, and physically located in Ontario.

If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. You've been outdoing yourself, Leda. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. So I think I've prefaced each of the last ones by being like, oh, this one might be the stupidest one I've had. Nah, this one is just bad. I'll be honest, there's a lot of moving parts today going into today's show, getting everybody ready and then leaving.

it was hard for me to find one or like put together like a really good connecting one so just bear with me please Jeff we're bearing we're bearing I have to see you in person later so ready yeah about an hour in the airport

whenever I get in trouble in my own zone Jeff with the puck I was taught to do this and now I carried this with me and I Riley like to use the glass Morgan Ryan Riley, Anders Lee, Cody, glass. I rightly like to use the glass.

Pac-win breakout high off the glass. Is that you're saying? Sorry, man. There's no. This is so bad. I really like to use the glass. Okay. First of all, I don't want to criticize you because I don't want you to stop.

And one day you're just going to hit. like a massive home run because you're taking like really hard rips at every single ball so I'm not going to criticize you I'm just going to leave it out there and one day we're just going to have to do a collage of the best from like from the from our fan dual late game late late show segment to conclude every program from Zach Phillips yeah yeah yeah yeah it's it's like not even a blooper reel. It's the complete opposite of like the best of the best. It's the worst of the sheet.

This is a compilation of these moments. Someone told me a while ago. It's really great advice. Don't try to get the things out of your life that make you cringe. Try to get cringing out of your life. Just let people be who they are. Just let people be who they are. So you're saying this was good.

This was good because I'm following the philosophy. Don't try to get the things that make you cringe out of your life. Get the fact that you do cringe out of your life. Just let people be people. Just let everyone's got their own lives. Everyone's on their own path. This is the path you've chosen at the end of every show. So I'm just going to get out of the way.

I'm just going to get out of the way. There's other good advice, like this other good advice, too. This one sucked. No, we don't know yet. We don't know yet. No, we don't know. This is the Zen farmer. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

We don't know. What if this hits big? What was that? Five bucks is bringing in a thousand? Yep. Correct. Never know. We're going to pay for our flights in Minnesota.

We could land in Minneapolis tonight and games are all over and guess what? Guess who's going to the pay window? Guess who's going to the pay window? And then there's, of course, Jeffrey Stevens, Juicy. Oh, God. Yeah, what was you describing that burger? I'm like, give me a scene set from Minnesota. Oh, the burgers.

We've been told by many people that we've got to get the juicy Lucy burger. It's cooked with cheese inside, I believe. It's melted inside the patty. Can I ask a question? How does that, how is that different? Like, why is that different than just having the cheese melted on top? Okay. It's not.

It's not. Okay, all right. And when I went to Rochester earlier this year, everyone was telling me about garbage plates. Had to have a garbage plate. What is the garbage plate? Oh, you don't want a garbage plate is? No, yeah.

Garbage plate is hot dog or hamburger meat, hot meat sauce, other condiments. Essentially, it's just like a bunch of crap thrown on a plate. It's called a garbage plate. It looks fine. okay i mean i get it i get the i get the idea of it i'm i'm not in love with the with this the gc lucy looks really good yeah the garbage plate okay let's look that up on the way because i got i got it you and i got to do the same thing we're going to the airport um we'll look it up today when we get to the airport as we sit there and wait for the inevitable call from the warden

all right um thanks to don waddell for stopping by thanks to the great todd shiroc from the Communications Department of the Columbus Blue Jackets for on-ramping Dawn today. Thank you both gentlemen. Thanks to Stephen Ellis, DFO prospect expert and draft guru. Thanks for stopping by. Hopefully we'll see you in a few hours. Thanks to you for watching. Thanks to you for listening.

Appreciate both. We'll talk to you tomorrow and when we do, we'll have an Olympic roster for Team Canada to discuss and hopefully we'll be doing it from Minneapolis. Otherwise, you are stuck with. Me and that chimp. That chimp. Talk to tomorrow. I'll sleep 16 hours last night, every day this week, every day this month.

I can't get out my head, lifestyle ambitions day-to-day, because you can call it all right. I went to the dark man. and that's fine I'm not against those methods but new it's me and myself and how this is going to be fixing my mind I do on the bracket

I turned on the music I do on the music I do on the music that's turned up hell, up and that you sometimes do it. I've been on the day that we're wrong. In the dead dark night.