The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Cup Final Game 5 Tonight & Babcock Investigation Continues ft. David Pagnotta & Greg Wyshynski

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

The Stanley Cup Final is down to a best-of-three, and Game 5 takes center stage tonight in Carolina as the Hurricanes and Vegas Golden Knights battle for a crucial edge with the series tied 2-2. On today's edition of The Sheet, Jeff Marek and Greg Wyshynski break down the biggest storylines heading into Game 5, including key matchups, lineup decisions, standout performers, and what each team must do to take control of the series. Plus, David Pagnotta joins the show to discuss the latest developments surrounding the Edmonton Oilers' pursuit of Mike Babcock, the fallout from Dylan Larkin's trade request out of Detroit, whether more members of Team USA's gold medal-winning roster could be on the move this summer, and the latest NHL offseason news and rumours from around the league. It's another packed MVSW edition of The Sheet with Jeff Marek and Greg Wyshynski as the Stanley Cup Final reaches a pivotal turning point.Stanley Cup Final, Stanley Cup Final Game 5, Carolina Hurricanes, Vegas Golden Knights, Hurricanes vs Golden Knights, Jeff Marek, Greg Wyshynski, David Pagnotta, NHL, NHL Playoffs, Mike Babcock, Edmonton Oilers, Dylan Larkin, Detroit Red Wings, NHL Trade Rumours, Hockey News, The Sheet, Daily FaceoffSHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼 Canadian Blood Services: https://www.blood.ca/👍🏼 Ninja: https://www.sharkninja.ca/ninja-crispi-pro-6-in-1-countertop-glass-air-fryer-rose-quartz/AS101CRS.html?utm_source=Meta&utm_medium=Paid+Social&utm_campaign=H1NinjaCrispi&utm_content=NinjaEN&dwvar_AS101CRS_color=cdb9b8Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@FNBarnBurner🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoffReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chinsky, spot quiz for you. Mm-hmm. How many fruits are there in five alive? One would assume... Hang on, how many fruits? Five. Correct. Five.

Very good. Right. Much like there's eight vegetables and a V8. We all know this, Jeff. Okay. Hold on. I'm going... How many counts did King Kong Bundy want for a pin?

He wanted a five count. Yeah, there you go. Okay, very good. What was Beethoven's most popular symphony? Outside of Master of Puppets, I believe it was the fifth symphony. Yes. How many Jackson's on the victory tour? I believe it's five.

What are you getting at, Jeffie? Is there a game five today? There's a game five tonight between the Carolina Hurricanes and the Vegas School of the Nights. And as much as we're going to try to talk a lot about this today, there's a lot of other stuff happening around the NHL, which we will get to. By the way, just quickly, I'm pretty sure this is the second time

you've done that five-bit to this year. And I did the five-bit before? Yes. No, wait a second. I vividly remember it. When was it? Jeff Merrick?

Now I repeat stories? No way. You repeat bits? This doesn't sound right. You see, in radio- I just was like, oh, I've heard this one these playoffs. I'm sure you have, Zach. Radio training, it's important to say the same things over and over again

because the audience is constantly refreshing itself. Zach, did you ever hear that Merrick worked in a cemetery? I don't know if you've, if you ever heard that story. You know that young Greg Wischinski used to hang out of the track with his dad? You ever hear that story? I did. Oh my God, used to have cigars all the time. I ever get to that, ever hear that story? Do the show.

You know Greg Wysinski and the New Jersey Devils? Do you ever hear about the Half Cup in 1995? Do you ever hear that story? How dare you? Ever hear is Bobby Holik impression before you ever heard that one? How about the Garrett Commission? Oh, no. As you know, the Czech soccer team begins the World Cup play tonight,

and I'm very excited to watch the Czech hockey team. I'm also very excited to watch Thomas Hurdle inside the Tenacup Island because Thomas Hurdle of course as a countryman. Yarmot-Kam-Murban an impression when we're at a year? It's the same thing. It's the same one. It's the same impression. Oh, Jeff Reeves, wants a long-term contract?

I don't know. kind of tiny. He is, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's,

he's, he's, don't sure if you have a Don Waddell. You're right. He's with the Buffalo Sabres down. The Buffalo Sabres.

I just did default. Can you do like, Alex? Are you like Alex? Do you like Alex? Alex Tucker wants seven years of 14 million per? Who is he?

Jason Robertson. Oh, that's a nice touch too. That's good too. Um, well, listen, we got a lot to get to today.

First of all, set the scene. How is it there? Give us the buzz. Give us the rattle. Give us the shake. What's the deal? So the question, the biggest question I have about the hurricanes just to bring it back to this series and also kind of like be a little serious for a second. I can't recall a time when a goalie was given a break, like a full break in game four like Freddie Anderson was.

And didn't then join his team for the next all skate? It's weird, man. He skated before the morning skate today in Carolina. He didn't skate yesterday. He didn't skate with the... So this is now, since he was pulled in game three, Freddie Anderson hasn't skated in a full practice with his team. Rod Brenda Moore swears up and down that he's healthy,

that he's available tonight. And so you start to wonder, first of all, Merrick, obviously, is, you know, are they being sincere about his health, with regard to him getting rocked by Ivan Barbashev in game three in the second period. That's what I'm going to. Yeah. And again, like, he gets rocked on that goal interference play. He then gives up four goals in the period.

He then gets pulled from the game. We haven't seen him since. They gave him a full break for game four in which he didn't dress. Peter Kachev's the backup. We expect he's going to be the backup again for Game 5 with for Brandon Bussie. And so, and he's not been available to us. He's not been in the team skates. And so you start to wonder exactly, is this a full mental reset for Freddie Anderson?

Or is there something else going on here? Do you think we'll ever know if the concussion spotter T-Mobile Arena called New York? I was going over this the other day. The way that it works is the concussion spotter in the rink can't pull that player off the ice, him or herself. They call New York, the Department of Player Safety Office, I believe, where there are four or five different people that are qualified to make these decisions. based on how the player looks. Did he grab his head?

There's a head injury. And then if they determine that they suspect as a concussion, they call the trainer and instruct that that player gets pulled out. So the concussion spotter doesn't do it themselves. They got to go to New York. And then New York makes a determination. Do we even know if there was a call made? Do you think we'll ever know if there's ever a call made?

We won't. And then the other tricky part about this is we've talked about in the past when it comes to the concussion protocol is he's a goalie. And goalies take shots off the head. Goleys get knocked around the crease. And there seems to be a different standard for pulling a goalie from a game than there is for pulling a skater out of the game. Part of that, I'm sure Merrick is how important a goalie is to a team. And part of that is also probably just, you know, he's the only player on the ice with a full mask.

And I don't know. It's an interesting question. But again, it is a. All signs point to Brandon Busty starting game five. He was in the starters crease, first goalie off, every in the morning skate. Logic would dictate you roll with the guy that won game four for you in game five. But when you start to think about the different scenarios for this series,

one of them could easily be that these two teams split the next two games, and then you have a goalie decision for game seven. And who's that? Is Anderson even available for it? I mean, there's no one sure at this point. Nobody knows what's going to happen because this series has been crazy. Like, would it be beyond the pale to say the Kachetkoff finishes tonight's game and they win, Carolina? You could say anything and you could see it.

That's a crazy thing about this series. There's one thing we know for sure, Merrick, and that is Carter Hart has the crease. I wrote a piece on ESPN.com this morning about four keys for the Vegas Golden Knights in tonight's game. frankly for the rest of the series. One of them is Carter Hart plays better. One of them is Carter Hart doesn't give up four goals in a game like he's given up in every single game of the Stanley Cup final.

One is Carter Hart tries to reverse the analytic decline that he has suffered in this series where his numbers have fallen off on slot chances, inner slot chances. Every metric you can think of, his numbers have declined from the previous three rounds.

In going back over all of John Tortorella's availability during this series, I found it curious that no one had actually asked him about Carter Hart's status. In fact, yesterday, John Totorello was asked about the Carolina Hurricanes goaltending change, but not his own goaltender. So I asked Torts today. Yeah, what do you say?

Carter Hart's given up four goals and four straight games, all of his analytics have declined, everything I just said to you. Do you have any concerns about, and before I could even say any other word, no. No, not at all. Do you believe him? So there's a great moment in Spinal Tap when the manager is asked, you know, when you started this tour, you were playing to 14,000 seat venues and 15,000 seat arenas.

And now at the conclusion of the tour, you find the band playing in 1,400 seat venues. Do you feel that the popularity of the band is on the wane or is in decline? And the response was, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Their audience is just becoming more selective. all. The audience is just becoming more selective. He's not going to throw his goal into the bus. As a matter of fact, coming in so late in the season,

you'll see that this is normally John Tortorella, like he has like a, there's one specific overlap with Mike Keenan with John Tortorella. And that is he finds a guy, right? And with Philadelphia, it was Cam York. And it started in training camp. when, shockingly, Cam York didn't make the team. And we all had Cam York penciled in and it ends up being Zamola. But Cam York got sent down right away.

Like there's that element of, you know, you need to make an example of someone. Keenan was famous for this. Like every single team he went through it, Denny Savard was the big one. And he just like found that power base and attacked it. That is what Mike Keenan always did. Some would say much to his detriment, but he was one of the most successful coaches the game has ever seen. So who am I to judge?

But coming in so late, he didn't have the luxury of doing that. He had to come in and be everyone's buddy. And like, come on, guys. Like, we're all in this together. He didn't have like, okay, I've got 82 games to work this. So for the next 20, I can be this kind of guy. The next 20, I can be that kind of guy. He didn't have that luxury.

He had to come in and make sure he did not bury anybody. Because they all needed to be pulling on the rope the same way coming off of Cassidy. So I am not surprised at that whatsoever. Do I think he's not concerned? Would you be concerned if your goalie spotting the Carolina Hurricanes four goals every game? Of course you would be. And then plus their relationship back with the Flyers, plus the fact that Aiden Hill's numbers this season were atrocious.

You could make the argument for Bussie to come in and replace Anderson because Bussie was their primary starter for most of the season. Aiden Hill was hurt. And when he did play, he was terrible. So I don't know if there really is. an alternative to Carter Hart at this point. But by the way, to your point, I wonder how itchy John Tortorello's fingers are getting

when it comes to giving a shoot interview on Pabaldorofaev. Like, that's the kind of guy that Torts in the old days would take a look at and be like, where did this guy go in the last four games of the most important series of the playoffs? Where is he? Is he the reason Ikel's not going? Because he dropped Dorfayev off the Eichel line last game, by the way.

Stone played up with Eichl and Barbyshev, and one assumes that'll be the trio that we see tonight. But yeah, Bavl Dorféa would totally be the guy that torts, if given a little bit more runway, would it be like, you know, we need better. We need better from Pavel. Pavel knows it. Pause on that point.

I want to pick up another point on that in a couple of seconds. But first, the blueprint is powered by Fandul. Here's what's coming up on the program. today. Download the app and play your game on Fandle. Greg Woshensky here from ESPN and ESPN.com, Dave Panjota, DFO Insider, will stop by from the fourth period. Bussie, Anderson, there is no Anderson. Anderson isn't even skating with the main group.

He's skating by himself, so that conversation is moot. I got a conspiracy theory for you on Mike Babcock. It's as goofy as hell, but Zach, I liked it. I'm going to drop it on you here in a couple of seconds. Alvin in C. Great. Yeah, it's all. You love little conspiracy theory.

He's like the one I'm going to drop on you here in a second. But picking up on the Carolina and Vegas of it all here. Last night, I'm not a basketball fan, but I understand yesterday was a pretty big day in NBA playoff history for the next against San Antonio. I guess it was like a pretty big game and a big comeback and the hand of God at the end. I didn't see the highlight.

The hand of OG at the end. So, yeah, it was amazing. So I, first of all, my personal experience, I was flying for most of yesterday. But then in my flight from Atlanta to Raleigh, there's like a direct flight from Vegas to Raleigh. Everybody else is connecting. And in fact, many of my colleagues got stuck in Chicago because of some lightning storms. I was watching the game on my phone and I was in an exit row on the plane and I couldn't help but notice that the flight attendant, was kind of like craning his neck over.

Nah. You want to watch it? And so I suck out my hand and, like, streamed the game for him and me and the rest of my row for about a half an hour. You didn't try to squeeze a free drink out of him? Come on. No, man. I thought he was going to. Working up a powerful thirst here, sir, if you'd like to watch the game, perhaps.

I just assumed he was going to pay it forward to me, but he didn't do it. I was a little surprised. but it was such an interesting, we're not going to make this a basketball podcast, but it was such an interesting finish because the minute the Knicks got it down to single digits, you're like they're going to pull this off. And we always talk about within the context of the Stanley Cup playoffs,

teams that are either ready for the moment or not ready for the moment. And the spurs are the exhibit A through Z of not being ready for the moment. I mean, Wemba Yama missing two free throws, Fox making one of the most atrocious, decisions I've ever seen an athlete make where he could just hold on to the ball or dribble out the clock and instead he tries to, you know, drive to the hoop and then he blows it and then gives the Knicks new life. Like it was, it was as inspiring as it was for the Knicks to shoot the lights out and Jalen Brunson to play as well as he did and in the arena going crazy. You know, it was just depressing to see a team like the Spurs just piss it away because they just weren't ready for the moment. you ready for my conspiracy theory

please so this is a buddy of mine who works for an NHL team who said if I were doing it's talking to this morning if I was doing your job here's what I would do today and whenever I hear comments like that I'm like okay this will be rich and he said I would come in with this conspiracy theory

to start your show today I said okay what's it about it goes Edmonton Oilers and Mike Babcock he goes if I'm doing your job I'm going out there and I'm saying that what the Oilers are doing here as a way

to, maybe not sabotage, but muddy up the Stanley Cup final to distract from the showpiece of the NHL as the Vegas Golden Knights are denying them the ability to talk to Bruce Cassidy and the NHL is saying they're fine with it.

It's like, okay, we were also the last team that had to pay a pick to talk to a general manager. I think it was a second rounder for Pete Shirelli. Here's what we're going to do. We are going to distract from the Stanley Cup final. NHL's crowning glory with the Vegas Golden Knights in it. We're going to introduce Mike Babcock into the ecosystem

to take all the attention away from the Stanley Cup final. That is his theory that this was done deliberately just to muddy everything up, just to muck it up, right? now. As far as I don't conspiracy theories go, what do you

think of that? Yeah. No, I don't think it's true. I don't think it's true either. But for talk radio.

Yeah, I think on the, on the conspiracy scale, that's an 11. Like, that's a fantastic idea. It's a great conspiracy. And then,

and then the league is like, well, we're going to investigate him. And the others are like, fine, we won't hire him. But we are going to look into this Bill Peters

character, has had some success in the KHL. And I wonder, have you vetted him? I forgot one. I forgot one thing. He also said the oilers probably called up Mike Bobcock and said, Mike, would you like $250,000? Of course I'd like $250,000.

Good. Don't answer your phone for three weeks. Anyone calls, it doesn't matter. Do not pick up the phone. We're going to do something here. It really is incredible how much of the oxygen that this story has taken up. I mean, like, I've done. a ton of radio hits obviously surrounding the final and it comes up in the first three minutes we're

talking about Mike Babcock and you know it's not a it's not a bad theory from that regard and it'd be pretty petty and wonderful if that were the case but uh I don't think they're I don't think I don't think like the Oilers think that way for one second I don't like there are probably some teams certainly in history that would think that way like okay this is we're going to do you're going to send you're going to you're going to get in the way of us doing this we're going to get in your way here and really make things awkward. I talked to one person this morning who had an interesting thought on the Babcock situation and with the investigation now by the NHL and the players association.

And he prefaced it this way. He said all the stuff that Babcock is done. First of all, none of it's good. A lot of it's creepy. A lot of it's weird. a lot of it's just like just being an asshole. I get it. But he said, how much of it is really disqualifying?

And the point that he was getting at here is if there's an offer on the table from the Edmonton Oilers for X millions of dollars. And the NHL slash Players Association denies him the ability to work based on this investigation. Again, and who knows what the other evidence is. again, like I don't know. But based on what we've seen so far,

like I found like so much stuff that he's done is completely. The Franz and stuff is gross. Like all like so much of it is like so so awful. But the question is from in a court of law, how much of it is disqualifying. And the point that he was trying to make is if they don't let him coach based on what we know now. Does he have a case for a lawsuit?

First of all on the what don't we know front, I listened to an interview with Aaron Portsline with Jason Greger yesterday. And Portsy, we've had them on this show, you and I. Tied in as anyone in the Blue Jackets organization. Had not heard a lick about there being some sort of deep, dark, nefarious thing that was the tipping point for the investigation or lack thereof. So not to say there isn't, but it's just that he's a guy that is on that beat better than anyone,

and there wasn't anything on his radar that would. match up with that reporting. I think when we get into issues like this, it becomes a little bit tricky because the commissioner's powers over this league are substantial. And they supersede anybody trying to sue for the right to coach. You know, the NHL bylaws and the charter sort of gin up a scenario in which, the commissioner can suspend anybody he wants, find anybody he wants.

It's a remarkable amount of power that Betman has. And so as much as in the real world, you could probably be like Mike Babcock could sue his way into a job based on the fact that the things that he is alleged to have done don't match what other coaches have done or have alleged to have done or have looked the other way on in the case of one coach in Anaheim, but I don't think it's going to hold water because I think the commissioner just has too much power over the personnel in this league to the point where any court's going to

look at the charter and be like, oh, well, if Batman says no, then it's no. I don't disagree. The only thing that makes this different is if they rule against Mike Babcock here, if the commissioner decides like, no way, no how, not in this league, forget it. Like, that is the end of the line for Mike Babcock. But it won't be forget it. Like, like, everybody who gets suspended comes back, right? There's nobody that's not a lifetime ban from this league under Betman, is there?

Like, I mean, there's guys that are never going to work here again. And there's guys that are never going to play here again, like thinking of Bill Peters and thinking of Slava Voinoff. But in both cases, it's not a lifetime ban. In Babcock's case, let's just say, let's say that they look at what happened in Kolaubb. Columbus and they say that this is serious enough where we need to have him be out of the league for a calendar year. Then you're effectively just ending his opportunity to coach the Oilers, right? Because they're going to have to look somewhere else. And then maybe, you know, he comes back or maybe he doesn't because he knows that there's no way to have a clean slate with this league.

But it wouldn't be you can't coach here again, but it could definitely be you're not getting this job because you didn't serve the penance you needed to serve by resigning before an investigation could be conducted last time. Let me ask you this. So let's just assume it's the invasion of privacy thing. Like, do you think the league takes action on that? Or do you think all of this is simply just? I don't know. Because a lot of the PA, this is creepy, weird.

Like, again, like, this is like, it's distasteful. It's invasive. It's, you know, the power of a coach over a player. Give me your phone. flip and through like it's it's dude it's it's creepy and gross right and weird like that that's what it is

the only question is is is as distasteful as it may be is it something that is disqualifying for employment and again not a lawyer don't know I have no idea I think when I think about the Blue Jacket situation

I think about where the pressure points are coming from to to force a resignation and there were three one was spit in chicklets where all of a sudden the most influential podcast years notwithstanding

in hockey is talking about this and making it their cause basically and having my Commodore on and having all these people on to constantly talk about Babcock

and that becomes kind of inescapable then you wonder where the pressure points are coming from internally where the rank and file the blue jackets are like absolutely not with this guy

but the biggest pressure point was the league. I mean, you know, the idea that the league is saying, we're going to investigate this and then Babcock resigning rather than going through that process. And so when you think about the Oilers, we know that the leadership group approves of this. We're not sure about the rank and file. There was some report on Twitter the other day about like one of the oilers anonymously saying that he wouldn't play for Babcock, but that's sort of unfounded at this point. And then you still have the league as the pressure point. And so the clock is ticked. And so the clock is ticking and you're wondering where the oilers heads are at on this because the

NHL is now obviously looking into it and so far they've they've held the line which to me again tells me that this is not a Stan Bowman initiative this tells me this is happening at the tippy top guy who owns the team level I believe this Babcock thing I believe I believe that I believe that yeah because if you're going to if you're going to hold fast through an NHL investigation you probably are someone who is a bit more stubborn than somebody in hockey operas someone who believes that you have contributed enough to this league

to where in you should be able to get the coach that you want and that's obviously Darrell Cates. Yes. Quick,

before we get to Dave Panjoti here in a couple of seconds, Zach let me know when he's standing by and available. We'll get his further thoughts on this here and we'll talk about Larkin and stuff in the NHL

Stanley Cup final here. But final thought on what we're, again, this podcast is live now, but by the time a lot of people listen to it, it's going to be like, you know, five minutes before the game. So I'm not going to do too much on what we anticipate tonight.

But what are like the glaring questions for you for tonight? For both sides. Eichel, Eichel, Eichel. That's it. Like he was held in check by a lot of people. It's stall, stall, stall, man. Your mic's off. Your mics off.

And maybe your headphones aren't working either. Yeah, your mic's off. Even his mic didn't like what he was saying. How about that? Like, what do you do when your mic doesn't even like what you're saying? How bad a take do you have to have when your microphones, like, don't say these words into me. How bad a take would that have been by Greg right there? Even your microphone revolted.

Microphones will listen to just about anything. Microphones have been listening to me my entire career. Never turned off. Greg's take was so bad, the microphone turned off. Just think about that for one second. Well, we'll get him back on. What? He can be...

Did you hear me now? Yeah, was your microphone... Yeah, was your microphone disgusted by what you were saying? And just turned itself off. Is that what it was? What I was trying to say is that people are under the impression that it's Stahl that's doing this against Ikel, but Aho played more against Ikel than Stahl did.

It's Slavin. Slavin and Chathfield played more against the Eichol line than anybody else. And so what I was saying is that Eichol is the most important thing for Game 5 for me from the Golden Knights perspective, because he's... He's probably going to get a full run with Stone on his wing along with Barbashev. You know, it's going to be a very tough matchup because Rod's going to get whatever guys he wants out there against Eichael's line. And, you know, Tortorella is right in the sense that Eichael came close a lot of times in game four to finally breaking through and scoring a goal, you know, against the hurricanes. But the bottom line is that, you know, one of the guys who drives offense for this team has,

necessarily been as as evident in this series as he was in previous series in fact he only has two assists one on a barbachev goal in game one and then one on hurdles power play goal in game three let me give you a number here though I wrote about this this morning Ikel has had 27 goals in 74 games this season in his last 34 playoff games Jeff Merrick Jack Eichle has three goals three. He's a lot of assists. He's done a very good job

creating action for his line mates, whatever, but three goals in 34 games. I checked, and Mitch Marner never had a stretch like that with the Toronto Maple Leafs. But Jack Eichael has had that streak. What does this say about the... Everything's got to be...

What does it mean for the Leafs? No, but I mean... It's, again, it's... And I don't want to pile on Jack because he's obviously... He's the second leading scorer on the team, I think, at this point in the playoffs. a non-factor in this series

so then it comes back down to is he hurt which has been the speculation for most of the series or is it just a symptom of the Carolina hurricanes being able to throw a slave in a chatfield against him and then stall at other times and that's neutralized what he likes to do so Ike Eichel to me is the spotlight player tonight

by far in what could be an interesting game the other interesting part Merrick is like and Taylor Hall said this the team that finds a way to limit their opponent to like two goals, probably going to win the cup. Like if there's anyone that can figure out defense in this series, they're probably going to win the cup. And he said, I hope it's us.

I'm sure the Golden Knights hope it's them too. But I mean, this cuckoo bananas chaos series, that's the fourth highest scoring first four games of a series in NHL history, you still feel like every game that starts, something's got to give. the game ends up being like 5-3. So who knows? I mentioned this last program too, and you shrugged me off on it,

but I can't help with thinking that like going through that entire game four. Like I just, again, this is just, and maybe it's me projecting, who knows. I was just watching like shift by shift, period by period, everything that that Carolina wanted to do, they were able to do specifically in the offensive zone. And that's why I came to the conclusion that over those three periods, of play, that was Carolina saying, okay, now we know how to play these guys. Like, I'm not someone that believes in momentum from game to game to game,

but I do believe in learning lessons from game to game that you can translate from one to another. I don't think the momentum translate, but lessons do. And what I saw in game four, like, listen, if Carolina wins this thing, we're going to look at game four and go, probably that's where they figured out how to play against Vegas, like really play against Vegas. And who knows? Who knows? Maybe Vegas comes right.

This is the test of great teams. Whether you can come back and say, okay, these are the lessons you thought you learned about us. Now we're going to change all the questions. Who knows? It may happen. Tougher on the road, we get it. But that's what I was looking at for game four.

As we wait for Dave, I had a really good debate this morning in the interview room with my good friend Nick Kostanika, who's with H.com now. But used to be with me at Yahoo and I was doing Puck Daddy. And he kind of said something that I've seen echoed elsewhere, which was the idea that Marner is going to win the cons might win or lose. I believe that.

I, why? I'm kind of astonished by it, to be honest with you. You know why? Why? Because I don't think there's anyone on Carolina that has like single-handedly demonstrated that they're worthy is such a stupid word. I don't think anyone has stood out. above the team. Clearly you do. Who's that guy for you?

I don't think Marner has stood out above the team. No, but that's all due respect. No, I think they're best players. I think William Carlson's been their best player. I think William Carlson is in Vegas' Vegas' best player. But Marner's got the counting stats. He's got the numbers. He's got a hat trick,

you know, the fastest natural hat trick of all time in the Stanley Cup final. Like he's got a great case. Yes. You say Carlson. I say Shea Theodore. We could both say Carter Hart, before the final. Like, I just don't,

when we have a player in a losing effort, let's say they lose the cup, when we have a player in a losing effort win the Khan Smyth, it is undeniable that that team is only

where they are because of that player. Whether it's the goalies that have won it, whether it's Connor when he won it, whether it, Ruggie Leach probably should have won it. Reggie Leach and Sears. Pronger probably should have won it in 2006. Yep.

Against the hurricanes. Yep. I don't disagree with. that. Maybe I'm missing something, but I mean, outside of the counting stats, I just don't see Marner being that on that level. No, but that's what everybody uses. But that's what everybody uses is the counting stats. That's it. Call it lazy, whatever you want. Again, the most impressive player in this series for me has been William Carlson. No one is talking about William Carlson. I get it. I understand, but he's been the most impressive player for me, but he's not

going to get votes. Mitch Marner will because of the counting stats. Of course he will. And also So the narrative, let's not forget that. But I guess for me, because your reaction was Nick's reaction. And I'm like, we have a guy on the Carolina Hurricanes who is their captain, the center of arguably their most important, the second most important line. I guess the hall line is probably more important to them in this run. But like, has shut down other teams best players who has five goals in four games in the second. Stanley Cup final, including the game winner. I agree with all of that.

That never gets rewarded. Or Sammy Paulson would have won the Consumice Trophy in 2007 with the Anaheim Ducks. And I would have given it to Sammy Paulson on that third line with the Anaheim Ducks, but there was no way Sammy Paulson was going to win it. Because what you're talking about,

I agree with you a million percent and that should be rewarded. Maybe I should have prefaced this earlier. I'm just answering like I see the history of voting for this award. Right. So for the same reason that Sammy Paulson didn't get it in 2007, I don't think, although I'm very happy to be wrong. And maybe those two goals last game changes things.

I don't see Jordan Stahl getting it. And I get it. Like Bennett wins it with 15 goals. Like he leaves the playoffs of 15 goals. Yes. It's kind of like the, you know, it's almost like the Calder Trophy where you've got to lead the league in something if you're a rookie. Like either goals or points. You got to lead the league in something, you know, if you're a rookie.

I don't know, man. I just, one, I don't see Marner's performance on the same level as Connor or Pronger or Hextall or some of these other guys that have been clearly the reason why their teams are in, yeah, are in the final. And on the other side, I just, I think there's two guys you can make the argument for. Neither of them are going to have the numbers that Marner has. But they've, in following this Hurricanes team now for four rounds, like Taylor Hall, Jordan Stahl, either one of those guys. can be the MVP for the Carolina Hurricanes and I'd have absolutely no problem for it. If Taylor Hall has his Jordan Stahl game four,

then I think you get back, I would get back on the Taylor Hall train. Because going into this Stanley Cup final, for me it was like, okay, if Carolina is going to win this thing, Taylor Hall gets the cons by the trophy. Yeah. I don't know.

He needs a Jordan Stahl night. I'm not trying to dog Marner's candidacy. I mean, again, the man had a natural, Patrick and a stand like a final game. That's insane. He could have had four were it not for Brandon Bussie making that save on the penalty shot. But yet, when I think about why the knights are here, the first name I think of is John Tortorella. And then the second name I might think of, you can't give it to a coach.

The second name I think of might be Carter Hart for the first three rounds. And then the third name is Marner. And again, it's not fair to Mitch because his numbers are incredible and he's been supremely important to them. What more do you want him to do? I know. I know. I know. He's doing his job.

But like, when you think about, you got to bite the guy. Again, the two names I'll give you, McDavid two years ago, Pronger and 06. Is Martyr on that level of like, were it not for him, they're not here? No, but nobody is. Like, honestly, like, it could this be. That's my standard for a. Losing team guy winning it. That's my standard for that.

Here's the thing about the Stanley Cup final so far. Has anyone distinguished themselves? Stahl has. Stahl has. We just went over the reasons why he hasn't distinguished himself in the voters' minds. I'm talking about keeping him. But over the course of, and I know you weigh the Stanley Cup final more. But has you distinguished himself where everybody's saying, oh, no-brainer, Jordan Stahl wins a Consumice trophy.

No, because nobody No, it's not, because his numbers aren't there. I do find it, that's another part of the debate, though, is like, how much do you weigh the final round? Now, you know, as it died in the wool devil's fan, of course, my argument in 2003 was you don't give it to Jaeger because his worst round was the most important round. That's why they lost the cup. But the rest of the voters were like, actually, he's the reason they're here. So like, why on earth would you not give it to him? And that was another one where, you know,

There wasn't a distinct guy on the devil's side. I mean, you maybe could have given it to Marty for his play in the final. You maybe could have given it to, you know, Niedemey or somebody like that. There was a defenseman that was pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, I'm talking about Ruslan Salé and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I'm talking about.

Of course. Of course. Sure. Absolutely. But, but, but, but, but, like, Jiguer was the reason they were there. Yes. And Pronger was the reason the oilers were there in 06. Yes.

And Cotter was the reason that series went seven. Like, you know, I just, I all do respect to Mitch, and he could easily win it. It's one of those deals, Merrick, where I feel like I am speaking Klingon. Because everyone seems to kind of be speaking the same thing about Martinus Performance, and I'm kind of like, you know, dook, doc, dog, like, I'm speaking a different language than everyone else, because I truly believe that there are candidates on the hurricanes that other people don't see being, candidates on the hurricanes. You sound like the guys from Angine de Poitrine when you talk.

Like, yes, I know. It's totally. So, but here's the thing. Part of it, too, is, and I'm guilty of this as well. I just want to see Mitch Marter hold the trophy of Maple Leaf Gardens. With the big leaf on the back. With the big leaf on it. It would just be too funny.

Come on. Like, at this point of my life, I just want to laugh about stuff. Come on, life's too hard. Just like find things to laugh about people. Life long, life's long. Just to pimp the great podcast. gas we did yesterday. I've told that Justin Williams' cons smite story about five

times since Oh yeah? Yeah. If you missed it yesterday, Justin Williams told the story about how he bought all of his teammates' gifts after winning the cons smith under the assumption he was going to get a bonus for having won the consmite that never arrived.

It's a fantastic story. Just ended up being a really swell guy. Wow, why is Justin doing this? What a great guy. That's such coming, right? Nope. No, it ain't. stuff.

All right. So if you had a vote, you'd give it to Marner. If I, honestly, if I, if I had a vote, I'd give it to William Carlson. Wow. I think he's been the best player. Listen. Everyone would be mad at you. Listen, I remember, I'll tell you what, and I will never say who this person's name is publicly.

I can recall having a conversation with someone in 2010, one of the voters for the cons might. Now, we haven't a, because I thought Duncan Keith was the best player in that final. I like Duncan Keith who's just head and shoulders. And that was the Taves year? That was Taves year. That was very good. That's 2010 with a great goaltending of Yemi and Mike Clayton and the mystery buck. And this person had voted for Jonathan Taves.

And I'm like, Duncan Keith was the best player. Like shift in, shift out. There was nobody better than Duncan Keith. And the reason this person said that he voted for Jonathan Taves was it would look better on the league for someone like Jonathan Taves. to have it. That's not the way to vote. And I went, oh, man. So every time, like,

Jeffrey comes in with his Sammy Paulson, 2007, or is Duncan Keith 2010, or as William Carlson in 2026, I don't feel so bad about myself. Who'd you go? You would go, Jordan Stahl. I would go stall. I would go stall not only because of his performance

the most important round. And, again, we're not done yet. And we might not even win the cop or whatever. But if they do, he would have my vote. Because the more that you talk, to these guys about Jordan Stahl, the more it becomes obvious that he is the sun at the center of the galaxy for the Carolina Hurricanes. He is the thing that keeps the gravity in place for the rest of these guys. They all kind of rotate around him. And I thought, I thought, I thought,

I think it was Jackson Blake said it the other day to me about like all of the things he's doing now. I mean, again, like he's scoring on the power play. He's scoring a five on five on He's winning every Fess penalty killer they have. Winning every face off. The top defensive forward that they deploy against other teams best.

Like, he really does everything. And I know that the counting stats aren't going to be there. But when you start to really kind of like get granular about what are the things about the hurricanes that work and why are they in the position that they're in, it all comes back to Jordan Stahl.

And the way he plays and the way he leads. And again, in the most important series of the playoffs, he's been their best player, like easily their best player. All right, let's get to our man. Dave Panyoda of DFO Insider from the fourth period

joins us now to talk about all things. I guess we should probably touch on Lisa Stanley Cup final at least a little bit since you are at the rank after all. But I'll... Where are you? There's still the babcock of it.

Greg's looking for you, by the way. Give him a wave. Dave! Dave! Where are you? Wish! You're there somewhere. We've talked plenty about game five here. Dylan Larkin.

Yeah. So I don't even know where to begin, other than it very much sounds like the list of three has expanded. We don't know by how many teams, but do you have anything you can share with us on the Larkin situation? Yeah, I think the list of three is more, those are his three top preferences. I think that's where things might have been a little misunderstood,

was that Florida, Minnesota, Vegas, those are his top three. Yes, there are other teams that are in the mix, and yes, there are going to be other teams that are going to try to enter the mix. But I've heard Dallas, I've heard Utah, I've heard San Jose. It sounds like there may be others. Like Philadelphia wants to shore up their center position, can they entice Detroit? and Larkin as being a possibility.

So there are other teams in this mix. I don't think it's exclusively those three that have been initially reported. I think those are the top of his list. But I do believe there are other teams, some of which I just mentioned, that are also potential spots for Dillon Larkin if they can work out of train. I mean, I guess they had to expand it, you know, beyond the few teams that they were thinking of. and I mean, if you want out, you want out.

Right. But are we just wasting our time? Is it just going to be Minnesota? Like, so we can play with Quinn. I mean, they've got the pieces. They've got the, I mean, because here's the thing. How much does this trade request now change the direction that Detroit wants to go in right now? Like, we all thought, and the belief was prior to this, that Detroit was now going to take next steps,

in a very, very prolonged rebuild. That now we're going to start making some moves and making more impactful additions to this roster because we not only want to make the playoffs, we kind of have to make this stage. Now, moving Larkin, it sounds like it's more of a futures-based package, at least right now, any. Is it a player for player?

Is this a star-for-star type of swap? It doesn't sound like it. So now from Eisenman and Detroit's perspective, if it is Minnesota, because that seems to be the most likeliest, well, are we taking the young Russian kid and the first round pick and a couple other prospects, and are we then packaging them up to fill what we need elsewhere, or are we going to prolong this rebuild even more now

because we're going to blame Dylan Larkin for doing? I mean, maybe they can go in that direction in terms of how optically they're going to sell this to the fan base, what this was supposed to be taking next, step summer and it certainly seems like a regression. So I'll share the conversation I had with someone yesterday. We're talking about this and, you know, I was making the point that like, to me, the big story here is how did the relationship get this bad that it got to this point?

And Greg, your colleague, Emily Kaplan, talking about how this goes back to the contract negotiation in 2023, that the relationship hasn't always, hasn't been good for a while. And someone made an interesting point to me because we look at this and say, oh man, this is going to be, this is going to spell doom for Steve Eisenman? Like, is this going to be a fireable trade that he made here? And this person said, no, actually,

this kind of gets Iserman off the hook because he can say, this guy asked out, what are we supposed to do? Which way do you fall in this one? Is this like this is Iserman's fault or this is Dylan Larkin just let him off the hook with this going public? it's both because I think you can use the narrative and sell the narrative of

he wanted out this was the best deal available for us and its futures driven and now we've got to prolong this a little bit it's also you know stevie's fault because he was supposed to make these additions I mean you go back to last last trade deadline I mean Larkin kind of voiced his discontent with how the deadline went like why aren't we adding why are we not trying to get better and similar messaging this year Well, okay, they brought in Falk and they made some small moves. There was no big home run type of deal that was made. Now, depending on you talk to, there was a strong belief that they tried.

But, I don't know, I mean, to quote The Simpsons, trying is the first step towards failure. So, you know, the lesson here is never try. Just do. So go out there and get. So that's kind of the, that's a tricky part now. So I think now you can sell the narrative as he wanted out. We had to make this happen because of the request. But look at this return that we got.

Unfortunately, the return won't bear official fruit for another couple of years. Yeah, and also, this is all feeling very mariner adjacent. Like a guy who maybe has in some ways been a disappointment for the organization in the sense that he's a captain of a team that can't make the playoffs. So I know behind the scenes, they're not always thrilled with Dylan Larkin, and I certainly weren't thrilled with him when he was melvin off about their trade deadline.

But, I mean, I think it's pretty obvious. Like, he's an extremely talented player who's going to go someplace and thrive on a better team. And so that's probably part of the math too. But I don't know, it's an intriguing thing. Like you said, we're going to learn a lot about where Stevie thinks this franchise is and where the illiches think this franchise is based on the kinds of players that come back the other way for Larkin.

Yeah. And then again, what do they do? Like if you keep the one piece, but do you, let's say if it's a four type return, are you keeping the one piece that's the primary piece and packaging up the rest with other assets in order to make your team better now? Like we obviously don't know that yet, but again, right now it seems like the best return is futures driven, which would kind of veer them back into this rebuild all over again type scenario, which I'm sure, I'm sure. sure fans are not going to be overly thrilled about. So let's take that one step further. If you trade Larkin, you have to trade De Brinket because you're completely changing the timeline that this thing is being done on. Yeah. And that's the trickle slash domino effect out of this. You know, because he's got what?

One year to go? I think it's one more year for Larkin. Or for, um, for, uh, to Brinket. De Brinket, yeah. So yeah, now you get to a scenario where if you're not utilizing some of these assets to help in the immediate. Well, now you've got two pieces that you can move out and get you'll you'll get a hell of a return for both of these guys But now it just symbolizes this team going in a totally different direction than they wanted to

It's going back to the whole rebuild discussion And again, I don't know how that's going to be received publicly by the fan base I imagine it won't be great It's basically Buffalo 2.0 now in Detroit where we're all right let's let's let's uh let's let's uh let's let's let's fantasy cast it where do you what where would you want to see lark and go for your own your own edification dave where's the most interesting place for him to land Utah and San Jose um are two interesting

ones for me because I think like Utah's willing like they want to take the next steps they want to they want to take a big swing they've got the assets to do it I don't know how many of those assets, they'd be willing to move for Larkin, because for Robert Thomas, everyone was talking about Simashev and Denway and Inge and Du Bois and another

kid that I can't remember his name. Yeah, they only wanted one. They were only willing to move one of those pieces. So if Detroit's looking at Utah going, oh, well, we're looking at our chops, look how many good kids they have, well, you've got to pick one. I've got to imagine. And I don't know if maybe that's enough for Detroit.

but to put Larkin in that environment with Keller there and the pieces that they have that would make them a pretty neat team to watch because it gives them even more depth and more fluidity because you've got center or wing that you can really put him at even though it should be probably center so you give that little mix there

and San Jose is another one with he's Canadian in Celebrini but he's a hell of a player because all these narratives about the U.S. guys where he wants to play Team USA, yeah, exactly. But you get a future MVP and you could be right behind them. I think there's a lot of interest now

from a lot of players with respect to the sharks. Well, it's interesting because the Utah move feels of a piece with like the L.A. King's trading for Jeff Carter. In the sense, they've got all these pieces, all these young pieces. You've got to push your chips in at some point. If he goes to San Jose, that feels like John Tavaris going to the Leafs.

Like, you know, you've got this all, You know, generational talent center. Yeah. And like, and now you're, you're putting the veteran, like, captain of another team behind him. I'll tell you where I want him to go. This is a wild card. I don't even know if you're on the hunt. Seattle.

No. So we can fucking forget about him for like 10 years. No. Boston. Boston. Okay. That would be the one that would be really intriguing for me. So if you're the Boston Bruins, and again, you don't know, if you're the Boston Bruins, how juicy is.

is it if you put the least unprotected first in the deal. Oh, now we're talking. Now we're talking. That makes it interesting. That's amazing. I'm so glad you mentioned Boston because that is a massive, huge wildcard in all of it. And they're a donut. Like, they've got some pieces.

And they could probably throw Mason Leroy in a deal too. Like, they've got some pieces. And then you go, but like they've been in the wanting for a center for ever. Yeah. There you go. Boston. That's my, that's my fantasy cast. that'd be interesting

that one would be I mean L.A. I'm sure would love to get in the mix I don't think they have the assets for it Dave Dave I'm glad you bought up L.A you're close to this King's situation what's happening

why do what do why is Peter Lovulet coaching the Kings they're not in the Metropolitan they're not in the Metropolitan they right they they wanted more

north-south type of game. They want to be more offensive, driven. And of the guys they've spoken to, Lavie fits the bill. There's familiarity, obviously, with Pinaran, and you can debate which way that's going. That's gone. But you want to be more running gun. You want to be more

offensive. And if you've got special guest. Who do we got dropping by? My voice down, Greg. Oh, that's Johnny. Oh, that's Johnny in the mix. There he is. Just Laz.

Come right over your segment. Like, Dave, like that's so disrespect, man. Des crats. We just, believe me. We just filmed the pregame. He was right here two minutes ago. How do you get up there so fast? I don't know how he did it.

He's good. If anybody can do it, it's Johnny in a blink of an eye. Young legs. Look, L.A. LA wants to be, they want to be more focused on, like they've been so defensive-minded for so long. You add Panarin, you have to be more offensive-driven. And I think this was music to

Kempay's ears. I think it was music to Kevin Fiala's ears. I guess Byfield as well, if he can continue what he did in that final quarter of the season, where he finally started to get his stride going offensively. I think that seems to be the way the kings are going.

Now, they have some holes they have to fill themselves, but they got their coach now and this caught everybody a little bit off guard because it sounded like it was either going to be DJ or Woodcroft and it ends up being Labby. The thing that's interesting is like the Kings to me feel like a team that should rebuild but then you look at the roster and you're like, well, they can't because of all the veteran player acquisitions that they've had in the last like two years.

So I guess like when you've painted yourself into a corner like this, I guess Lobby makes sense. he makes some sense in the sense that that's the way you want to play, but also just like you can't, this is your lot in life. Like you've made a roster that requires Peter Lobula to be the coach. Yeah, a three-year deal as well for him. So it's not like this isn't the five-year type of stretch that they're looking at.

So there is a little bit more flexibility in that sense from what direction they're going in. But we all know they need another center. They need two centers, quite frankly. They need a two and a three. if they believe Byfield's the one. They're continuing conversations with Lotton to try to keep him. And he liked it there.

So that's a possibility, a strong one. And Kenny Holland mentioned yesterday, like they've had some loose discussions with Drew Dowdy and his camp, which is him. Camp is him. He is the camp. And Brent Clark, they're starting initiating those conversations as well. So I know King's fans are clamoring to say,

well, maybe it's time for Drew. Drew will go when he wants to, and it's not anytime soon. He still wants to play. Oh, we talked about that with Justin Williams yesterday on the show. I think, I think Drew Dowdy, 43-year-old, third-paring defense in Florida Panthers. Let's go. He's going to be that next guy. He's going to be the next Eckman-Larsin, the next.

No, he's a new, Mitch-Mitt. It's a new Coolicoff for wish. Yeah, could be. Could be. He wants to keep going. His game has been modified. It's shifting. the way in which he's playing.

We're seeing all these big defensemen that a big-time defenseman, I mean, kind of modify their game a little bit and prolong their career. Real quick, before you let you go. Coaching and Babcock still, the hot topic. I had a buddy of mine drop a conspiracy theory on me talking about how Edmonton did this deliberately to muddy everything up to fudge both the NHL and the Vegas Golden Knights here in the Stanley Cup final. Like, all right, you're good to deny us the chance to talk to Bruce Cassidy.

We're going to bring in Mike. like Babcock introduce him into the hockey ecosystem. But where is this heading here? And let's say the NHL doesn't like finds grounds to disallow this hiring. Where does Edmonton go? I mean, I've got to imagine they feel comfortable enough with the amount of information they collected, players included from Babcock, that he, that they're comfortable with. whatever potentially comes out.

He was allegedly quite transparent in what he said to management and to the players to at least make them comfortable enough to move forward at this. How transparent we may find out. But the league wouldn't be doing this if the Oilers weren't set on hiring

him. They initiated it. The PA said you guys take care of this one. You know where we stand. Now the PA is an interesting one because I've got to imagine that if Connor and and Leon and Hyman and Nuge and those guys are comfortable with Babcock after what he told them. I don't know if you can fully step in the way of that, which is partially why I would imagine they push this over to the NHL to finalize this investigation.

Can I ask a question, though? Why do we assume that Connor and Leon and Hyman even cared to ask about what happened in Columbus? To me, their question is more like, what will you do to help us win a cup here? Like, I'm not even convinced that those guys even gave a shit about all that stuff. I mean, for God's sake. Stan Bowman's their GM. Like, I feel like maybe they just were more focused on, like, what are the things that you're going to do here as head coach? So just because they signed off on Babcock doesn't necessarily to me mean that they signed off on all the chicanery he pulled.

Here he stops. For further to that, let me just add one more thing. They've already asked other players, like when it was happening. Yeah. Right? Like, players, like, players know. Players talk with one another. Everybody talks.

So, like, they would have already known. It wouldn't have to be like, oh, wow, Mike, we had no idea. We're starting from grounds players now. So let me just, I just want to make sure that that's part of the conversation. Like I said the other, like I said the other day, you know who I feel bad for? Adam Fantilli. He's having a great June. He's probably on some yacht somewhere.

He's a young millionaire. And some asshole from the league calls up and can you talk about Mike Babcock? Like, God, damn. I thought I was done with this. Yeah, unfortunately, I don't think he'll be the only one. But they look, they, again, the players, management, everybody feels like this is the best option for them right now in terms of winning. But unless Babcock can play goal as well,

they got a lot of other things they've got to figure out there. Like, they're no goalie. What are they doing with Nurse? They want a winger to play with Connor. They don't have a three-seat. They don't have a fourth line. Like, there's a lot of shit that needs to be done there in Edmonton beyond the head coaching decision.

All true. Well, based on his past, I mean, let's just bring in a 57-year-old J.S. Jaguerre and a 58-year-old Nick Lindstrom, and let's hope that they can re-conjure the magic. I mean, that's how that guy wins. They got one more run. They got one more run in him. Makes sense. Are you helping the guys behind you with the glass?

What are you doing down there? That'll be, yeah, that'll be next. It's the camera where it is. I think you handle that. handle that like a trooper. You're on point. You're giving us all the news. You got a bunch of guys behind you going.

Hey, you need the ladder. Dude. Hey. Camios everywhere. We got guests everywhere. Johnny's here. Erf's here.

It's great. I was going to say, like, look, man. I think there was a lot of chaos behind you too. So, like, I was like, if it were me, I'd probably be like, can you guys give me a second? I'm going to find a new location, but you just like plowed through it like an F and pro buddy. Good job.

Really good. Really good. Appreciate it. I tried. I tried. I tried. I can tune a lot. lot of things out as best I can. I can tune Greg out. I can tune Greg out. So I guess maybe I can

maybe I can do that game. You be good at Joy Game 5. Oh, you have a quick, give us like a hot 30 seconds out what are you looking for tonight. Give us a hot 30. Well, it looks like Bussie's, I mean, he was in the starters net this morning. So I wouldn't be surprised and Kachkov was on the ice. So, I mean, well, this series is as easy to predict as any series we've ever seen, right? So I would anticipate taking the over again a lot of goals in this one and I think this is a rebound game for Vegas. I think they know

they kind of screwed the pooch here last a little bit and I think they kind of get back on track with this one. Whoever wins tonight wins the Stanley Cup, true or false? True, but not necessarily in six. If the visitors

might my thing here is if the visitors win tonight they win at home if Carol Carolina wins tonight. They'll win at home. Yep. Hey, listen, all I care about is what happened in game four, which is a two-two series, which means I get to go back to the aria and roll them bones this weekend. That's all I care about. Jeez. All right. I'm excited. I'm flying out at 625 in the morning, so.

I'll be right after the fourth overtime. That's great. Yeah, perfect. Yeah, you can go right from the ring to the airport, and you can have a little, have a little quick little. wash up in the airport, in the airport bathroom. We've all been there. You'd be good. That's it, man. You know what? The beer league shower. Oh, God. Oh, I've got to get home to the wife here. It's a little splash. All right. You'd be good. Dave. We'll talk soon, pal.

All right. Later, boys. Dave, Hanoid, the EFO insider from the fourth period. Thanks, Dave. You did great. You were fantastic. Tell Earth was nice to see him on screen too. And Irf, Erf, Angafarar and Johnny Lazarus popping by. It's a whole scene there in Raleigh, the Lenovo. I fly out, I think at like five in the afternoon, which is a bummer because the first U.S. World Cup group play match, I think, is it like, or while I'll be in the air. So I'll have to stream that game like I stream the NBA game.

Again, you and I talked about this before the show yesterday. No one gives a shit about travel for the writers, but I got to tell you, it is much better than it was. It was much better than it was for the last two years in which we tried to find our way from Fort Lauderdale to Edmonton. Fort Lauderdale, Edmonton. Several times. Yeah, it was Nobody cares Nobody cares

People hate hearing media Complain about flights They hate it Nobody cares All right Before we let you go One of the things That I always kind of want to do

On this program with you Outside of I'm going to drop in on this year now Outside of tonight And Game 5 in Carolina Vegas What's on your mind these days For hockey

Like we all don't just I know, focus on one thing all day long. Like, I'm always curious about the what's on your mind question. I don't think I ask it enough of anybody. I don't think we have the conversation enough. So when it comes to hockey, regardless of the Stanley Cup final, what's on your mind? Nico Hescher's next contract? I thought it might be devils.

Yeah. And whether there'll be one. I was curious, I was curious about, I kind of, like, everyone has kind of come to the conclusion. it's going to be McKenna at one. And I wonder how much of that is driven by the Leafs approach to McKenna at the Combine, which I think they spent a lot of time with them. So that part's interesting to me. And then how the rest of the first round kind of shakes out is interesting to me.

Honestly, the other thing in hockey that I'm kind of fascinated by is, I don't know if we've talked about this at all, but like there's been some least. leaks of the next wave of they're not reverse retro i forget what they're calling them but they're like really outrageously colored and uh interestingly designed jerseys that fanatics is putting out i think this season and um one of the ones that leaked it was available on ebay and it was a prototype was a bright pink uh panthers jersey and i was fascinated by this one because it's such a you know

audacious design but like fits the south florida aesthetic yeah but also because like i've long argued that the first team to adopt hometown remix that's what's called yeah hometown remix the first team to adopt like heart foundation colors like a black

and pink kind of thing we'll kill it as far as as merchandise goes so you're not wrong you're not wrong i i think that's it that's a i i'm intrigued to see all the designs especially for teams that I think could use a refresh. But the ones that I've seen, the Islanders one leaked and the Panthers one leaked,

both look real cool, especially the Panthers one. You know long term what I've always wondered about when it comes uniforms? The future of socks. And I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback when it's that, because as much as the Cooperall was awful, and whenever you would go down, you would slide, it did look better. And I've always wondered whether

When there was, no, no, no, no, but not cooperalls like that. But whether eventually hockey fashion on the ice would evolve towards something like a pant As opposed to a short pant with socks Because it does look better. I mean, you know, the entire uniform is an interesting place to, interesting thing to discuss going forward because we are in the age of individual stars. we are in the age of individual expression. And you wonder if those rules get a little loose at some point.

And so far as like helmet designs or what players can do to personalize their look. So when you're watching it on television, you know it's McDavid or you know it's Celebrini. Like, I don't know. I find that to be kind of an interesting vein. I don't know if it'll lead anywhere because essentially all these guys. There it is. There's the banders. Look at that fucking jersey.

I know. It's so cool. It's gorgeous. It's beautiful. It's awesome. It makes me want to drink. a giant tall pink lemonade. But yeah, like, if we're going down that road for this hometown remix thing,

and like that's what the Panthers jersey looks like, I cannot wait to see the rest of these jerseys. Yeah, man, that looks fantastic, too. Yeah, I'm with you. Like, I don't know that we ever see, we all remember, you know, Grant Fure and his agent, Rich Winter had the Pepsi pads with St. Louis that got rejected by the NHL. But I'm with you. Listen, Gretzky had the blue tucks, right? Like that was like, oh, look, that's Wayne.

He's a guy with the blue tucks. Like, I think we get there. I don't know how much the players, I would hope that they're sort of allowed, quote, unquote, to do what they want with various pieces of equipment. But it feels very much it gets getting that way. Geez, you don't even have to wear a suit and ties to the rink anymore. What's next? my editor Tim from from ESPN is here and I'm I'm wearing this not only because I like to look good for you Merrick you always you always wear that at the rig that's your rink look um but yeah but that's because I'm staying here

like other people come in for the skates and they leave and they enjoy life but I've got to be here for a TV thing later but my editor Tim showed up and he's in a he looked like a stockbroker like he was like dressed in the nines in this suit and then it occurs to me that I didn't let him know, yeah, dude, most people are just rocking shorts at Morning State. Like, you just wear whatever the hell you want. And he's like, I think I'm overdressed. I'm like, you are, but it's okay, you look great. Go to court, depending on where you're going.

Well, no, he's going to eat barbecue. But I mean, like that's, oh, he's screwed. And he'll look like a writer, a barbecue sauce on his tie. Yeah, for sure. Oh, you must be one of the writers. Can't keep the food in your mouth. No, but like overall, just should answer you the question. in a specific way.

Like, my thoughts are with the Knicks. I'm not a Knicks fan, but that series is crazy. And my thoughts are with the World Cup. Like, I'm not a, I'm not a soccer guy in the sense that I don't follow the Premier League. I don't follow MLS. I don't follow champions. I don't follow anything. But I am a World Cup fan.

So I will consume as much World Cup content as I can when I can. And I'm sure, like, once the series is done, then I'll be probably all in on the tournament. So World Cup, like I live in Toronto. Oh, you got some here, Zach, some late breaking? Yeah. Yeah, sorry. Elliot Friedman puts out a couple minutes ago here now. Darnell Nurse asks for trade.

There is time for a fresh start. So that is official there now. There you go. Maybe he was the guy to want to play for Babcock. San Jose. What do you think? I think. that, again, like my first thought is the San Jose Sharks.

A team that has cap space needs a defenseman. I know that Darnel Nurse has his warts. I get it. Always been a sublime skater. Tough player. San Jose seems to be a fit there. That's my initial response is San Jose Sharks. Like I've wondered about does a, I've mentioned this before in San Jose.

the sharks can all live it at me when I mention it, but does like a darnel nurse calling graph trade makes sense. Could be. We'll also, I can also report Jeff Merrick, not exclusively on this podcast, that Joe Sacka confirms that Jared Bednar will return

as Colorado Avalanche coach. So there you go. No surprise, no need to make change. Some late breaking news all over the place. No need to make a change there. All right. So more news dropping as the standings Stanley final.

Stanley Cup. I don't know that we've ever seen a Stanley Cup. Because the NHL, you've got to give them credit. And all the teams have kind of been pretty well healed about it. Usually when the Stanley Cup final is on, the news is very limited and muted. It only happens on off days. But every single day, there's like so many other things to talk about other than the Stanley Cup final. This time around, more so, you correct me if I'm wrong here.

More so than the years previous, there is more big news. happening around the Stanley Cup final than ever before. Oh, yeah. And some of it has been distracting and some of it has not been distracting. But I think that, like you mentioned the Babcock thing, kind of a joking way before. Like I just think that overall, whether it's Babcock, whether it's Larkin, whether it's, you know, the,

why does everyone have to talk about the Leafs thing around Mitch Marner's, you know, cons might candidacy. Like all of it just kind of creates, a conversation that ultimately I think benefits the playoffs because like it's just the tension on hockey overall

and that's a good thing yeah bingo 100% more conversation more interaction more stickiness for fans to the product more understanding of the game at a lot of different levels I'm with you like it just that's why geez in so many

in so many different areas why I know people like to harp on the media, but this is why media is really important for your fandom. Like, this extends your fandom. And whether it's like I'm just paying attention to Carolina and Vegas, but if you know, there's a fan, you can't step away and just focus on something else. Oh, by the way, to your point about the World Cup,

one tiny little point about it, never a real soccer guy, but he used to always love the World Cup because I was born in Toronto and lived there pretty much my entire life. And there are so many different pockets of ethnicities in Toronto, Oh, and Zach will tell you this, like little Italy beside little Portugal and like there's an Argentina area. Like there's a lot of like great. There's a German area, Polish on Roncesvilles and Ukraine on Ronsesville slash Blur West Village.

It's a great spot because there's these pockets of ethnicity that every time the World Cup is on, it's a massive party all over the city. And every country brings its own distinct way to celebrate. And you can see it all over in different pockets. all over Toronto. That's what I always appreciated from growing up in Toronto. So, and World Cup is when that all kind of gets turned to 11. Can I ask a question about Darnel Nurse? Okay, shoot.

Isn't this like one of those, you can't fire me because I quit kind of scenarios? Like, we all pretty convinced they were going to move this guy anyway. Well, he doesn't have trade protection. It's like, I know they're going to ask. Like, you find out someone's going to break up with you and you say, like, that's it. I'm dumping you first. But that's what I'm saying. like like request a trade okay like was going to trade this guy anyway i mean that's the kind of

it's an interesting little bit of i'm leaving you no study of the english language on this one come yeah stop wait come back right it's the it's the it's the willie walka meme it's the no stop wait come back yes um yeah i request a trade okay would you like me to drive you to the airport Stan Bowman, we're going to trade you right now for Morgan Riley. Oh, it's so ironic. I'm requesting a trade. Oh, then we're in agreement. You can't fire me.

I quit. Thanks, wish, and enjoy game five. We'll chat soon. Thanks, everybody. There is Greg Woshensky from ESPN and ESPN.com. All right, we went pretty heavy today, and we're still not done because right now, a quick note from our friends at Airbnb. be. Hey, Zach, summer's on the horizon and, you know, we've spent a lot of time on the road this

year, but here's my question to you. Zach, what would your ultimate summer road trip be? Go. For me, summer's all about golfing, getting out on the course. So going back to places that we just went to and just visited like Banff and the Okinaugan, I think that would be the ultimate getaway with some of those incredible courses, beautiful weather, the scenery. it's some of the best that you can find.

It's some of the best that this country has to offer. Now, for me, it's easy. New Brunswick, specifically St. Stephen. Now, my background. When my family immigrated here to Canada in the 1800s from Ireland, that's where they settled. I went there earlier this year when you and I were in St. John and took a little side trip.

It's gorgeous there. I spent the day. I could see myself actually living there one day. Now, after New Brunswick, Montreal. So here's the deal. For me, Montreal is the one place in Canada where you wake up, you decide what kind of day you want to have, and the city allows you to do it. The festivals, the concerts, the patios, the people, the cobblestone streets of old Montreal, street performers, you name it, it really is the best. And honestly, those kinds of trips are exactly why

I love booking homes on Airbnb. You actually feel like you're part of the place. You're part of the place instead of just passing through. And that's when it hit me. While I'm busy blending in with the locals, why not let another traveler do the same? After all, while we're gone, our place back home is just sitting there. So hosting our place on Airbnb could be a way to make use of that space on our own schedule and maybe have a little extra coming in at the same time. Your home might be worth more than you think.

find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. Great thing for your vacation. Hey, Zach, one thing I wanted to mention here before we get to your big shine spot for the night. Whether it's Patrick Alvin or whether it's Rick Tockeet, Alvin, assistant general manager of the Seattle Cracken, Rick Tockeet head coach of the Philadelphia Flyers,

former head coach of the Vancouver Canucks. The one symmetry in their opening remarks about their new teams complement the practice facility. Twist. Twist.

Twist. It's a It's astonishing to me that they can't figure out a practice facility. Twisting the knife. Just. Oh, man. Beautiful facilities here.

It's amazing. that we have an arena we can get better at. Who would have thought the concept of an NHL team having known. Somewhere and here where the guys live, perhaps, and don't make a drag them downtown. Yeah, that's wonderful. Anything from today's show, whether it was Dave and the glass repair guys, or whether it was Greg Wischinski and whether it was the Babcock,

the Lark in the game five. San Jose and Utah are very intriguing to me as well, which is two in places that Dave brought up as potential. Or ideal landing spots editorially for Dave is a way to phrase that one that Dylan Larkin could land. I think those ones are interesting to me too. And Utah's the team I'm going to have an eye on all summer. Do you want to hear my conspiracy when it comes to Darnell Nurse on his way out the door?

Always on a Thursday afternoon instead of good hockey conspiracy theory, sure. Okay, so we've talked about the idea of, you know, it just takes one to go to the NHLPA and say, let's take a further look into this. We need to prompt the NHL to continue to investigate Mike Babcock for what happened in Columbus, you know, because maybe I want to make sure I feel safe before he comes here. You know, what if Darnell was in the group chats at the boys and they were thrown around the idea of Mike Babcock? And then he gets wins. This might be the end of your time here in Edmonton, Darnell. Holland analysis. I don't know if I feel particularly comfortable with Mike Babcock coming here.

And Stan, you know what? I request a trade on my way out. Thank you for having me. Enjoy your investigation into Mike Babcock and the publicity that comes with it. I will be on my way to name your team. There is, by the way, there is one, I don't know if it's a conspiracy, it's not really a conspiracy theory. It's just like a theory for why things happened with the Philadelphia Flyers. So for the longest time in the world, the Philadelphia Flyers, and we'll see, like Dan

Florida had a great season like last year. For the longest time the Philadelphia Flyers could never find a net miter. Some would say it was deliberate, making the choice of John Van Biesbrook over Curtis Joseph, certainly was a choice by Bobby Clark and the Philadelphia Flyers. My theory on Philadelphia for the longest time was, When they've won their two Stanley Cups, 74, 75, Bernie Parenthood was a consmite trophy winner. I think Bernie Parrant was the best angle,

goal tender, not just of that era, but of all time, discussed amongst yourselves. And I'm sure that somewhere in there, Bobby Clark thought that he was the most important player on the team, and he probably should have won at least one of those consmite trophies. And when he was the manager of the Philadelphia Flyers, that he was singularly focused on trying to prove you could win a Stanley Cup

without a great goaltender. If you look at all the moves, if you look at all the moves and where he placed the premium for the Philadelphia Flyers for the longest time, I always thought that in my back of my mind, Bobby Clark is still reliving

74, 75 and trying to prove that it was him that was the most important player on the Philadelphia Flyers for the cup runs and not the goaler. That's my theory.

What a petty ass lady we have. I know it's speculating. You know, talking about things that are just thinking about, but what a petty league. Like, seriously. Are you new? This is the NHL, man.

Don't get me started on who kept Pat Burns out of the Hall of Fame for so long, trying to settle old scores. It wasn't if he passed away that he finally got in. But like, this is the league, man. Like, everyone, people expect their children to carry their grudges with them, like for their entire lives. That's the league, buddy.

Like, that's been the history of the NHL. Okay. Boy, we're being selfish with your time. I hope you're still with us. It's the NHL season. Fan Duel, you're home for all the action on the ice. From Blue Line to Bet Slip, we've got you covered all season with unique promos, live offerings, and more features to let you play your game. If you missed puck drop, no sweat with the live same game parlay.

You can build your bets up until the final buzzer. Download Fandall Sportsbook today and play your game. Please play responsibly 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Cashman, go for it. Okay, so a little bit of serious and a little bit of lead-in to my parlay here. I told you I was playing hockey last night.

How to go, UCC, right? No, Forest Hill. Forest Hill Arena. Yeah, they moved us to the Forest Hill Arena for last night's game for some unknown reason. How is the fog? How was the glass? Dude, it was the worst. It was the worst temperature and condition.

How is the room? This is what I want to tell you about. Listen to this. So they renovated the rooms, okay? Oh, nice. So traditionally you'd think if they renovate the rooms, the rooms would get, I don't know, nicer, more modern, made me bigger.

Hot water? No. Hot water? Forest Hill. Yes, they have hot water. But Forest Hill decided to blow out the dressing rooms, Jeff, to make more dressing rooms. So the dressing rooms got smaller and they took out the washrooms. And there's more of them.

So all the dressing rooms. Look at the washrooms. In the dressing rooms. Yes, yes. Hang on, you can't have a squirt in the dressing room. You got to go to the name. Shows? Is there other showers?

There's a shower. There's a shower. Singular head shower. A shower. So if you get dressed and you have to have a squirt, you're walking out to the lobby. Yes. Yes. I showed up last thing like all that new rooms.

Okay, they've renovated the place. Okay, this would be nice because last year we played one or two games there and it was terrible. And we go into where in this little hallway, there was a split where there would be two rooms. You go into the hall. way it's split there's four rooms in this hallway now and then when you go to do so did your team get two rooms then oh no no so you're dressing on each other oh yeah it's the most insane setup ever it's nuts but with that with no washrooms in the dressing room jeff there were so many bodies going in and out of the main washroom in the main washroom in the

main area in the lobby that ultimately after a while it produced a stank down the hall there we go okay all right they got the first one right stank open it seemed to be coming from a stall oh geez i had to steer clear of going to the washroom and just hold it myself to get through the game and to get home last night because anytime i walk near there it made me feel ike oh Jesus. All right. Let's have a look at what we got here. I think we got the three.

Oh, what did I miss? Stankhoven, Hall, stall, Eichel. So what did I miss? Oh, Hall, of course.

Like you, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, is the stank down the hall. Right, yeah, yeah, coming from the stall. Jumping stall, Jack Eichel.

$5 wins $601. $35 from your friends at Fanduel and, um, well, Zach's awkward night at Forest Hill Arena, which is an older rank, and there's,

there's two pad. Did you at least play on the big pad or did you play on the practice pad? Well, big is a loose term here because it's a big, small pad, yeah. But yeah, it was the bigger one. It was a bigger one. So you didn't play on like the me pad beside you do five on five there. I know. That is nuts.

But also just another little thing to throw in here, you just alluded to it. It's a practice pad. Yeah. Well, what do you think happens on a practice pad while people are practicing? Coaches are blowing whistles. What is there not to separate the two rinks? A wall. I know, I know.

I know. How bad is that? So we're out there playing. And you just hear like tweet, tweet. Every now and then, guys are like, and it rubs you out. Keep going. Keep going. Dude, please never put us here again.

Just keep us at UCC. Please, please. But that's part of the problem, right? They took out the one pad. They're playing lacrosse and everything on the bigger pad at UCC. see so I guess with one pad down they're trying to find rinks across the city right now and it's it's between their uh madamee which used to be uh maple leaf gardens for those who don't know it's great renovated so that's where the other rink is and then this one at forest hill i guess we're going to play at it's it's nuts

dude tiny so hot the glasses you can't see out the glass like it's pretty legit legitimate question Legitimate question. Yeah. Are you going to start dressing in your car? No, no, no. It's summer hockey. Just go in flops and walk in. No, I couldn't do that.

Why not? Why not? Also, the problem is getting dressed in the heat of your car here right now in Toronto. It was like 28 degrees by the time I got there yesterday. Dude, okay, okay, I say that wrongly then. Not getting dressed in your car. Getting dressed and then driving there.

No, getting dressed in the parking lot. Okay, still, no. It's a no for me. That's a no-fly zone for you? I'd rather just deal with the tiny-ass dressing room. I would. That was a serious story, though, by the way, about the dressing rooms. There was no washrooms in them, and they made them tiny.

I was just laughing. I couldn't stop laughing. Walked in and I'm walking the hallway, I'm like, whoa, what have? What are four of them here? I still can't get, they don't even have. like a place, like don't even have a trough. Like for you guys to like have a whiz, nothing. No, nothing.

They added one urinal in the main washroom to, you know, so they could compensate for the missing washrooms. Well, yeah, great job, boys. Thanks, thanks for that one. Wow. Listen, I used to play in the MTHL, so which is like the forerunner of the GTHL. And that was one of the rings we played at, right? When we play against North Toronto, it'd either be at North Toronto Arena, home of Tom Wilson.

Or it would be at Forest Hill. Because I played in the West End, like George Bell, Lampden, all those ranks out there. McCormick, all those types of ads. The MTH. I was going to go out of shirts. I played in the M. I played in the M. That's how you know you're old.

Yeah. I played in the M. And the MTHL. What's the MTHL, Grandpa? Well, let me tell you. The one rink we get thrown in in the winter that's awesome is St. Mike's. The dressings are tiny and crap there, but the rink itself is fun to play in.

The rink is tiny, though. It's 180 by 80. But it's cool because you're at St. Mike. It doesn't matter. It's 100%. Do they still have all the pictures on the wall of the alumni? Yeah, all the banners hanging everything. It's really cool.

I love it. I'm like it. Like the rink is too small. The rooms are tiny and IDGAF. I just love it because it's St. Clair and Bathers. I'll play there every single night. I absolutely love it.

And think about Maddie Nichol used to have his original gym right there in the back. Tiny little. A little spot. I know. So cool. But not in the summer loop. Not in the summer loop. Nope.

Nope. Nope. Okay. I guess that's it for us. Like, only took an hour and a half of your time today. Indulgent. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Thanks to Dave Penaute for stopping by DFO Insider from the fourth period. Thanks to Erfeng Afar for the cameo. Thanks to Dr. and Lazarus for the cameo as well with Greg Wischinsky from ESPN and ESPN.com. Thanks to you for watching. Thanks to you for listening. Thanks to you for. subscribing thanks to everybody in the chat as well.

Tomorrow on the program, Brian Burke will be aboard. Normally we have Berkey on Wednesdays, but it's Civilian Fridays instead. And just confirming by text a couple of seconds ago, Brian Crawford will be aboard the commissioner of the Ontario Hockey League. They are having the return of their in-person draft tomorrow. You know what's funny, Jeff? What's that? Guess where Berkey's going tomorrow.

Oh, is he going to Kingston? Yes. for the OHL draft. That's so good. I got to go to Branton for a baseball term with my kid or else I'd be there 100%. So you know why I'll tell you, do I have two seconds here? You know why they got rid of the OHL draft, the live draft? Why is that?

Don Sherry. So Don shared. They used to have a live draft every year for the OHL. And Don didn't like it that kids would go and not get picked. And they'd be upset. All the kids would be sitting there in their suit and they wouldn't get drafted. and it'd be like tears on the way back to the car. And Don thought that that was distasteful towards the kids.

So he would mention it on coaches, right? Like, oh, they got to stop this. And eventually Dave Branch, the then commissioner of the OHL, relented. And it went away. I love that it's back. I love it. The kids love it. The parents love it.

I know it's an added expense for the teams, whatever. the Quebec League does it. It's a huge event. It's massive. A buddy of mine from the state just had his kid drafted. He's a 2010. And the Q draft loved it. Like such a fantastic event.

Make it really, really special for all these kids going into the OHS. So I am, despite the protestations from Don Sherry, and I get it. Like his heart's in the right place. He doesn't want to see these, you know, 15-year-old kids getting their hearts broken. But I'm glad that it's back. I think it's a really great thing for the kids.

It's a great thing for the league. bit of marketing for the OHL as well. So we'll talk to Brian Crawford tomorrow on why they made this decision to bring this thing back. Finally, the live OHL draft. Kane Clucche, by the way, believed to be going number one, Dan Clucce's son, who plays with Von Kings, previously played in Oakville. So look for Kane Clucce to go to the Osholy Generals unless there's a major surprise. We'll see. It looks like that's the way it's shaping up right now. Okay, that's all I got for you more with the commissioner of the OHL on that one. Tomorrow.

Thanks so much for watching. Thanks so much for listening. We'll talk to you tomorrow. 1 o'clock, we're doing the show. I don't know, that's not every day this month. I can't get out my hair because you can call it.