The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Deadline Week Begins ft. Chris Patrick & Shayna Goldman

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

Jeff Marek is joined by Chris Patrick, General Manager of the Washington Capitals, and Shayna Goldman. Breaking down with Chris the Washington Capitals' start to the season, Alex Ovechkin's chase of Gretzky, how the Capitals might approach the trade deadline, and much more. Shayna Goldman will join to react to the Jack Hughes injury and Seth Jones trade along with Matthew Tkachuk being placed on LTIR.Shout out to our sponsors!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼 Tim Hortons: https://www.timhortons.ca/rollupReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Learn more at Fizz.ca. Switch to Fizz. Don't know about you, but for me it feels like this week is going to have at least one, at least one major surprise. And by that I mean the trade that none of us saw coming. You know every year we talk about a trade that no one saw coming that just happens. Bob McKenzie gets out of hibernation and drops Herald to the Vegas Golden Knights. Boom! And then he's off. Or Jacob Verrana for Anthony Mantha. That was a shocker a few years ago. But do you not get the feeling with the amount of names that are out there already,

and there's some large names out there in advance of trade deadline on Friday, that there's going to be one that we're all missing on. The shocker, the surprise. And maybe if I say, I anticipate a surprise, it won't be a surprise. Discuss amongst yourselves. By the way, welcome to the program.

The Sheet here, Monday to Friday, 3 o'clock Eastern on your daily face off YouTube channel. That is where you are right now if you are watching live, if you're listening. Thank you for your ears on your favorite podcast platform. Zach Phillips, I'm sure had a very busy weekend handling the affairs for the Toronto Maple Leafs, games against the New York Rangers and the Pittsburgh Penguins. One real quick thing, I want to focus a lot on trade deadlines today and Chris Patrick, GM of the Washington Capitals putting pen to paper on Charlie Lindgren. I wonder if Chris himself was a lefty. He's got two lefty goaltenders. He's got two right catch goals. I love

afternoon games. Players hate them, coaches hate them. Sometimes it's hard for fans to make them, but just as someone that consumes the majority of his hockey on television, either riding the bike or ironing the couch with my ass, I love afternoon games because they're just big and messy and sloppy and a lot of turnovers and there's a sort of junior hockey element about all the mistakes for all of it. That game yesterday afternoon was fantastic. It was a coach's nightmare. It was sloppy on both sides. Some questionable goaltending. Some really bad decisions made in all three

periods and then in the overtime. But at the end of it just a really enjoyable experience and you got like a score ripped out of the pages of 1987. Yeah I know I was talking about it in the postgame show in the Leafs station after dark I'm like how can you not be entertained by that we just saw 11 goals the Leafs they had a lead they lost the lead they tied the game up they they were down they take the lead back send the thing to overtime. It was fun hockey, it was a lot of goals, and it was funny, I was listening to William Nylander

after doing his Tarps Off interview, by the way, and he's like, he said basically what you said except for one difference. He said, the players loved it. He said the fans love it, the players love it, I don't know if the coaches love it. All right, fair enough, I mean, I guess you love it, you put up a bunch of points and got the OT winner today, no kidding. By the way he's on this real sort of streak like

all players that are out there the great ones always give out what we like to call bad information lead everyone to believe they're doing one thing when they're doing something completely different he may be the master at it right now when it comes to faking passes and shooting or faking shots at passing, he might be the best in the NHL right now today. As we say this, and you need a new name for your post game show, by the way, when it's in the afternoon. I don't know what you can call it. Leaves After Dark. Before dusk. I'm sure you made that joke yesterday. Pre-dusk. Leaves pre-dusk.

Alright, well, the big news of the weekend, the Seth Jones trade, and we're getting into that in a couple of moments. The Rangers and Avalanche getting frisky as well. The Minnesota Wilds say, hey, you can always come back here. We always got room for you here, Gustav Nykvist. So let's get right into it because Chris Patrick's going to join us in about 10 minutes time, but I want to give enough time here that we can throw around the topics of the day and the topics from the weekend as well. So Daily Outlines presented as always by our friends and partners at FanDuel, North America's number one sports book app provider.

And the top story continues to be, and we'll wonder what the cascading results are gonna be after this deal. Seth Jones is now a member of the Florida Panthers. We're gonna get to the Matthew Kachuck part about this deal in a couple of moments. As I mentioned, Chris Patrick, the general

manager of the Washington Capitals will be aboard pen to paper Charlie Lindgren they have their goal tending wrapped up for the foreseeable future and both of them are right catch goalies. Hello Mason and Garon. Shana Goldman from the Athletic and the Too Many Men podcast will stop by. We'll have a look at the trades full analysis of them from the weekend. And we'll get Shane his thoughts on what Jared Bednar, head coach of the Colorado Avalanche, said when he was asked about the analytics around Ryan Lindgren. And there it is. It says LTIR, but that's our cute little way today of saying

we're going to talk about Matthew Kachuck. And I'll tell you what, in my perfect universe, in my perfect irony is dead universe, can please someone tonight after the game, because Tampa is playing Florida. Can someone please ask Nikita Kucherov what he thinks about Matthew Kachuk going on LTIR. Please. It's so simple. Just someone ask Kucherov what he thinks about it and Jack Hughes just an awful, like just an accident caught up with Jack Eichel and goes careening into the board's head, shoulder. It all looks bad. Does this change what the New Jersey Devils do in and around trade deadline?

Does it hasten any decisions for Tom Fitzgerald, GM of the New Jersey Devils? We'll get into that coming up here in a couple of moments. In the meantime, so two big guests, and we got a ton of topics we wanna get to today. And you're gonna be, you're gonna crack the whip. You're gonna be the lion tamer again. And you're gonna say, Merrick,

you're gonna stay on point here. We have a schedule, we have a script. And damn it, you're gonna stick to it. No longer a sloppy host. And I will fight you every inch of the way. I will be, I will be for you. This is my vow to you. From here until whenever this show is over, not today, but in general, I will be like a Rubik's cube

that fights back. You may have big designs about making things. You ever try to think about what a Rubik's cube would be like if it actually fought back? That's going to be me on you. I'm doing it right now. We should be getting into topics, but this Rubik's cube is fighting back. Seth Jones is now a member of the Florida Panthers and I had a chance to, I didn't get to watch or listen to it live but went back and listened to a morning cup of hockey from this morning and I thought the guys were bang on and Goldie was great and you know I agree with Colby Cohen on this one. This is not a situation where you can say one team won the trade, because they both had different ideas of what a win is, dependent on where they're at in their winning cycle.

The Florida Panthers still have designs on winning another Stanley Cup, to go back to back in the Chicago Blackhawks, as we've talked about countless times, are in the beginning stages of a rebuild, are in some type of rebuild, they maybe hope that they would be further along on their rebuild than they already are, but they do have a key piece now in Spencer Knight. Now they do have that goaltender for now and the future, we'll see Spencer Knight tonight as he makes his debut for the Chicago Blackhawks and all of a sudden there's another bullet in the chamber for Paul Maurice. He has another top four defenseman in Seth Jones

and you have to wonder and you have to expect I suppose that we'll see a better version of Seth Jones with the Florida Panthers than we saw with the Chicago Blackhawks because as we've talked about losing for a long time and being out of any playoff picture come Christmas time can wear on you. Oh not that you can't, this is in Colby Cohen nailed it this morning so they're going to have to show up and be a pro but it's hard man it's hard to play that many empty calorie games season after season. Your thoughts on this one I thought it was a and I got to say as much as I just stuck it to Cal Davidson last week here on the program on the blog as well I didn't know that he was going to be able to get that much like honestly like he got essentially he

got two first round picks Spencer Knight's the first round pick and he got another first round pick either in 26 or 27 good good on Kyle Davidson and the Chicago Blackhawks yeah additionally on that on that, I was looking too, because I don't know if it's the same for you. It feels like Spencer Knight's been in the league for 10 years. Maybe it's just because I've kind of... It feels like his name's always being around, but I kind of looked and I'm like, oh, this guy's really young as well. So there's an opportunity for Goalie of the future. You've addressed a potential issue here

Hopefully you've addressed an issue. I should say with the goal tending situation and moving forward like that I Know I think that this was basically a home run for both sides I we had heard Elliott last week talk about it and say maybe Florida would be a potential fit I just didn't really know how they were gonna make that work But Chicago doesn't take too much because that was also a worry retention. But I don't know, this was basically when I saw it

and I saw the return, I'm like, yeah, hockey trade, Jeff, hockey trade. You know, listen, the Florida Panthers have been in business for a while looking for another defenseman. You know, before I went to the Pittsburgh Penguins, there were all kinds of talk about Eric Carlson going to the Florida Panthers. So like we probably shouldn't be surprised

considering how Bill Zito has been looking for one more elite level defenseman to join the mix and and he got his guy and for the Chicago Blackhawks I don't worry about their attention at all. I know it's a lot of years but listen this team's not gonna be good for a while. I would just be blunt there's not gonna be any sort of miracle turnaround. There's no one be any sort of miracle turnaround. There's no one player who's showing up in this. They may get better in free agency.

Have a lot of cap space to work with and some very interesting players, specifically wingers that are available this time around for teams in free agency. I just don't expect them to be significantly better next season, but it's an indication to Connor Bedard that, you know, listen, we're gonna address all the different positions here.

Now they have another first round draft pick they can use as an asset to bring another player and the key position. How many times have we said it? If you have the goaltender, it's 70% of your team. If you don't, it's 100. Now we'll see if Spencer and I can string this together for an entire season or seasons for the Chicago Blackhawks,

but it looks as if they have their goaltender for now and the future. Now they have a million goaltenders there as well, which we'll have to sort it out. And if you're Drew Camesso somewhere, you're saying like, who is the goaltender in waiting when Rick DiPietro signed that 15 year year career 15 year deal with the New York Islanders because like, all of a sudden you think like you're waiting in the wings and

you're gonna be the starter and you're gonna be the guy next thing you know, bam, out of the starter signs the DiPietro 15 year deal or they bring in Spencer Knight. Sorry, Drew, there's a new mule in the stall. Well, actually, I'd seen Stephen Ellis as well make the point on Twitter I think he said that they had felt comfortable and excited about the goaltenders that they had coming up in the like their prospects and then recently their scouts have kind of started to change opinions on those guys so getting Spencer Knight and there's just a little bit added

reassurance on that as well so kind of nice and there's just a little bit added reassurance on that as well. So kind of nice. And there you go. A little extra from our guy, Steven Ellis, who I'm certain has seen a lot of hockey from all of those guys involved. He has seen every goaltending prospect that the Chicago Blackhawks have and probably has scouting reports on all of them and full background, which he quote, chapter and verse, if we brought them on the program. Speaking full background which he quote, chapter and verse if we brought him on the program. Speaking of bringing on the program, someone that I've wanted to have on the show for a while now, I'm glad to have him aboard and a big thank you to the Washington Capitol's general manager who made some news early in the morning today putting pen to paper on Charlie Lindgren as a three-year nine million dollar deal. Chris Patrick joins me now on the sheet. Chris, thanks

so much for stopping by today and thanks for starting the news cycle off for all of us in hockey media today. So on behalf of everybody, thank you. Hey, we're always looking to help you guys out, right? Well, okay, so let me start with this. I was wondering before you came on, are you a lefty by any chance?

Do you like throw with your left hand? Are you a right catch guy? Because you're getting the market cornered on right catch goaltenders here and locking them up longterm. Are you a southpaw by any chance? I'm not, yeah, I'm all righty. Yeah, I guess I just really like right catching goalies.

You know, one of the things that, it's funny, I was having a conversation with this, um, actually this, this goes back a number of years of like, you know, the, the blue jackets, um, when they had, uh, who would have been Mason and Garon, uh, I remember talking to someone in Columbus who said, you know, some of the shooters have complained about it that, you know, we're shooting, we're shooting on, on right catch goaltenders here, but whenever we play, we're playing against traditional goaltenders that catch with their left hand. Has

that ever been an issue with the Washington Capitals? Have any shooters, any players ever said like, can you mix in a different goaltender or someone else for practice so we can not just acclimatize ourselves to right catch guys? Yeah, the coaches have talked about that. I haven't heard it and I haven't heard it through them, if that's been something the players have talked about. You know, we do have the good fortune of having a video coach

who also doubles as a third goalie for us at times, and he's a a third goalie for us at times and he's a left catching goalie. So I'm sure the guys enjoy when he comes in, one they get to take free shots at Brett, but also they got a guy that has the glove on the other side to get some shots on as well. Isn't Brett like six foot six as well? Like he's a large man too, isn't he? He's all of six foot six. I think he's more of six, seven. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so the goalie situation. I do want to get to the trade deadline

and it's impossible for someone like me to have you on and not at least spend a little bit of time on your family. The first family of hockey, as I've always called the Patrick's. But trade deadline is here. We're seeing moves already. Blockbuster on Saturday with the Panthers and the Chicago Blackhawks,

but we wonder about your Washington Capitals and how sensitive are you to disrupting the chemistry that's already been established here with this team? Like are you going into deadline thinking, I don't know if this is gonna be trade deadline for us as much as this is going to be tweak deadline for us. We've already made some moves. Everything's going so well that you don't want to budge this thing too much an inch to the right or an inch to the left. How are you approaching deadline? Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it tweak deadline. You know, I think that's the balance for us is we've had a really, really good group with chemistry

both on the ice and off the ice. You want to look for ways to improve the team, but you just also have to be careful about doing too much and over tinkering. Like I said the other day, making a deal for the sake of making a deal. I think just as important as adding maybe a piece that helps the team here is our own guys within the room, understanding that we're in early March here. We're obviously in a good spot. We put ourselves in a good spot, but there's a long way to go here between now and when everything's done and we have to improve our game

You know, we're starting to see teams come in here that are fighting tooth and nail every day for their playoff lives And we've got to start making sure we're matching their intensity because become game one of the playoffs We have to we can't just hope that we're gonna turn it on We have to be ready to go and have built been building our game to that point. So so I think that's an important piece as well, but, but for sure, the, the chemistry of this group has been really strong all year. And I think a big, big part of the reason why we've, we've had so much success. So, um, everything we're going to do is, is going to have that in mind.

Is there a, um, Chris, is there a part of you that says, I've heard this before from managers as well, This team has done so well They've jumped over every hurdle. We've put in front of them. I owe them something Do you have that sort of? Internal pressure on yourself like these guys have done everything I asked like look where we are in in the standing look where we are In the division in the conference in the league, I owe them something. Do you feel like you owe this team something? I mean, I understand that sentiment.

I mean, I think you just have to, you know, you hope the players understand, like, you're doing the work and you're evaluating everything that's out there and, you know, it's not like I'm just sitting back and saying, hey, team's in a good spot. I can take this week off. I don't need to make calls.

You're doing that work, but you also are evaluating what you're hearing with what's the price that you have to pay to make that move. Is that the right thing for the franchise at this point in time? And again, for a guy that's been laying it all on the line for the first 60 games of the season, is it fair to now tell him, okay, you're sitting out for this new guy coming in, um,

because we feel like this is the right thing for our team. And, and you have to weigh that factor as well. So, um, so, so hopefully they understand that that's, that's where we're coming from. And, and again, like if we, if we think there's something that makes a lot of sense to improve the team, we'll do it and we won't hesitate to do it. But we just wanna be careful, we're making the right move both for now and for the future.

Does it feel like, and I know this is your first deadline in the big chair, but I mean, you've been around deadline for a long time here. I don't even know if this is a fair question, but I'll try anyway. Does it feel like prices are really high this year? That's what I keep hearing, oh prices are high, prices are high.

Does it feel that way to you? Yeah, maybe you're talking to more buyers right now, but I feel like anything, I think every team is gonna set what their price is, their initial ask, and then they'll adjust based on what kind of response they're getting. If they're getting multiple teams bidding on the same guy, the price will go up. If they're not getting what they're hoping for, then the price might come down or it might just be we'll just hold. I think more for me this deadline at this point when compared to other deadlines, I think you have less defined sellers right now.

There's a lot of teams that are, you know, hey, we're right in the mix and we need to, we need to give this group a chance to try to make a push here. And maybe come midweek, we'll know more, or maybe I'm actually gonna try to add a little bit because the groups worked hard to put themselves in this position and they're two points out of a spot

and I wanna give them a chance to make it. So it feels like maybe there's three or four more teams this year that aren't selling that may have in years past. And so that's maybe made the market a little less frothy. Does the salary cap going up change how you and your colleagues will behave around deadline this year? I.e. once upon a time, coming off of the pandemic, the margin for error given the flat cap was

really, really small. Everyone's going to carry a couple of mistakes. It's baked into the pie, but you can't have too many. And so I found that managers tended to trend more conservative. Now that there's a little, you know, it's a little, a little bit looser, a looser around the joints as far as the cap goes in the summer. Do you think that changes how managers behave? I think having the guidance will definitely to me, what it helps is,

is if you're looking to do maybe a hockey type deal, this deadline is something for a guy that has some term left after this year, a year or two years or even three years left on his deal. Now that you have a little visibility into what the cap might be for the next three years, you just know you're not going to be caught this summer with, hey, the cap's only going up a couple million and now we got to scramble to create some space because of what we did at the deadline. So maybe it allows teams to be a little more active looking at some guys that aren't necessarily rentals.

I want to ask you about a couple of players that have really hit. The Washington Capitals had a tremendous offseason. That's not exactly a secret and I'm not just shining the apple because you're on here with me. Like, the evidence is there. What I like about how this team has been constructed is I like that there's established players that are growing up in the Washington capital system, and there's also a good healthy mix

of second chance players. You know, there's, whether it's Pierre-Luc Dubois, whether it's Dylan Strom, whether it's, you know, there's whether it's Pierre-Luc Dubois, whether it's Dylan Strom, whether it's, you know, Jacob Chikrin, like it's a real nice balance. You know, we started this conversation talking about chemistry and the room and all that. I guess it's a real tip to your pro scouts more than anything else. We've always heard managers say, you know what, get them into our system and we'll unlock the brilliance that's always been in that player and the Caps have been able to do that. What goes into that? Like what's the secret ingredient

you think that's allowed this team to get to this spot right now? Yeah, I think part of it is we got to a point where our core that had been so successful in, I guess, the 2010s, up to winning the Stanley Cup in 2018, they were obviously getting older. And we understood if we want to still be a competitive team, we're going to have to find some players in their early to mid-20s because our amateur staff does a great job and We do a great job with our draft, but we when you're picking 25 26 27 every year like you know You're not always gonna end up with with the high-end guys

and so you have to look for other ways to add those guys and and so it's just kind of being creative and keeping your ear to the, you know, what's going on in the league and looking for those opportunities when they're there because even though it maybe doesn't seem like it, those opportunities are potentially there more than you realize for a guy like a Dylan Strom or Pierre-Luc Dubois who, you know, you don't always think guys of that caliber will be available but for whatever reasons they are and so when they are you kind of have to jump on it and and I also give a lot of credit to the group we have here in the locker room our leadership group Alex, John, Tom, you know

Nick Dowd you know they've done a really good job bringing these new players in over the last few years and making them feel comfortable, make them feel part of the group, getting them up to speed quickly, especially this summer with as many new bodies as we brought in. It was right from the start of camp you could see that everybody felt comfortable and happy to be here and working towards the same goal. And to me when you have a group of guys like that in the locker room, that's a huge thing to be able to say, hey, I know for whatever reason it's not working for this guy and his

current team, but kind of like you're saying, we're managed to say, we'll get them into our system. It'll work. That's kind of our thought is that, Hey, we'll get them in because our group's strong enough to take this guy in and Spencer's open minded enough to work with the guy. And we think there's something here that could really help us. Okay. Uh, I'm not doing my job.

If I, if I don't ask you about Alexander Oveshkin, I can't believe you've gone 10 minutes without, you know, uh, talking about someone who's, who's poised to break one of the greatest records, uh, in the history of the sports. Um, 11 goals shy. Um, and here we are with, with Alex Oveshkin. we are with Alex Oveshkin. Does your group already have the activation plan ready to launch the minute this happens? I know there's a lot of contingencies and moving pieces and all that and the schedule is what the schedule is and one day Ovi's going to score four and then he might not score another for a couple of games. I know it's balls in the air. But do you have the plan ready to go as soon as it happens? I would say that the plan is in the works.

Um, you know, the great thing about Ovi is, is, you know, he's always full of surprises at the beginning of the year, people are asking, like, do you think there's any chance he does it this year? And here he's missed 16 games and he's on the precipice of it. And I think so everybody's like, oh, we better, we better call some meetings here pretty quick and get things squared away because he could have two or three big games and we're going to be down to single digits in a hurry. So, so they're definitely getting to work on it. I've been a little bit out of the loop with trade deadline stuff. I think I've missed on a couple of calls

and a couple of meetings, but fortunately for them, that's not an area where I'm super strong. And we have a lot of people that are really strong in our group and our organization. So I think it'll be great when it happens. It's going to be really cool to see. And I hope it happens. I hope it happens really soon. And you hope it happens at home. I'm guessing if you want to throw that caveat in there too, that'd be great. I'll probably end up eating these words, but I've been telling people, anyone that'll listen, like just Ovi's flair for the dramatic. It's not like he's going to try to do it, but I

just, for some reason, I just feel like it will happen at home. It's just going to work out that way, but we'll see. We have a lot of road games here down the stretch. All right. A couple of things in this, and I know you're busy. I appreciate the generosity of your time and I do want to ask you about your family here in a couple of seconds but first you mentioned Spencer Carberry who's like I'll just speak from a media point of view. I mean he's a gift. I mean he's a he's a great communicator. You always learn something when you talk to Spencer Carberry. I know when you guys brought him aboard there were other teams very much trying to hire Spencer Carberry. Just a wide brush thought and you know the floor is yours. What was it, because I know you're

integral in bringing him over to Washington, what was it that you saw in Spencer Carberry? I know he had been there previously in Hershey, but like what you see him of him at the NHL level that that led you guys to believe that he was the right guy for the Caps? Yeah I mean yeah obviously the relationship helped knowing him from Hershey and even in South Carolina where he started. You know I think the thing that's always impressed me about Carbs is he's a really good communicator which I think think is, you know, probably the number one attribute you have to have now as an NHL coach. You have to be able to communicate. You have to be able to connect with the players. You have to be able to hold them accountable,

but also be able to help instruct and, you know, sit down with them and talk about what they need to do better and what they're doing well. And he does all that on a daily basis. You won't find a harder worker. Every coach in this league, the hours these guys keep are astronomical and he's right up there with all of them. I think he's a high character guy. I think I remember reflecting after, after we hired him in Hershey and, and, you know, I didn't know how he would do as a head coach at the professional level. And then you see a few months in how well he's doing and, and, you know, it just kind of reinforced me. Like when you have a guy that you, that you know, is a high character,

hardworking guy, it's, it's, um, you know, you're, you're taking a lot less risk on when you make that decision. So, for me, those attributes are all kind of, he's so strong in all those areas that, big reason why he's having so much success. Okay, I want to finish up by asking you one question about your family. And I've always recommended to people, as far as hockey books go, one of my favorite hockey historians is a guy named Craig Bolesby who's written a couple of tremendous books. One is called Empire of Ice about the Pacific Coast

Hockey Association 1911 to 1926 and the other one, which is a quickie read too, 1913, the year they invented the future of hockey. Now we uh, we always hear about moving the game forward. And whenever I hear that, I always think of your family because Lester and Frank were the only ones that did actually physically move the game forward. This was always a rush game with the puck getting passed backwards. It was, it was essentially rugby on ice. Um, and it was your family, Frank and Lester, um, who moved it forward with the forward pass. So here becomes my question for you.

Choose the question you would like to answer. One, uh, given when I think of the Patrick family, I always think about rules and how they change the rules and how we still, we're still dining out on the innovations from the Patrick family and going back to the turn of the last century. So if you could change any one rule in hockey, what would it be? Or is there an old PCHL rule that you looked at and maybe look at now and said, you know what? I'm really proud that my family's name

will forever be attached to that rule. I'll give you an answer for both. I'll do the second one first so I can kind of think about the first one but So this isn't totally an answer your questions I don't know if it was a pchl rule or not But I always like this one because I think it was like an Austin Powers. Dr Evil or something about somebody claimed that they invented the question mark and I feel like this is my family's claim of

Inventing the question mark and that was My father told me that I think one of them either Frank or Lester was the first person to put numbers on jerseys. Yes. Yes. And the reason they did that was so they could sell programs to you so you could see what number each player was. Yes. So that's my family's little we invented the question mark moment. I tell people that they're like no that's not right. I put numbers on the back of jerseys. I tell people that, they're like, no, that's not right. I'm like, I'm pretty sure it's right. It's true. Yeah, it's true. 100%

true. Give that to the Patrick. So now I've got someone to back me up on it. Yep. A rule change, most of the rule changes I come up with is usually I'm watching a game and something happens to us, I'm like, oh man, like I wish, and the one thing I always kind of like get like, it's like,

it's like thanks, but no thanks. It's like when you get that penalty call, a power play with like 30 seconds left in a period. Yes. To me, you know, you lose that, you get the team, you're buzzing around in their end and sending up chances. And then the buzzer goes, now you've got to center ice face off and you're regrouping from the neutral zone to start the next period so I Don't know something where if there's a penalty call in the last minute of a period The period just extends until the end of the penalty and then as soon as that penalty is over the buzzer goes So at least you get the benefit of the full if you got a team on the ropes

Sure, you know the buzzer doesn't save them and I'm sure social media if they're listening to this, will have a bunch of opinions on this. And I'd have to workshop a few things here to make it all work. But yeah, it feels like something that you should get more reward for a team potentially preventing a scoring chance by taking a penalty in the last minute of a period. If you'll indulge me for one minute one minute, um, I'll take, I'll take that one step here. Okay. So my, every year I have one thing that I'm obsessed with and for whatever reason this year, my thing is I don't ever want to,

outside of, uh, opening the period or after a goal, see a face off in the neutral zone ever again. I think all face-offs should be, uh, right beside the net to increase scoring chances. I mean, we all know what face-offs and neutral zone ever again. I think all face-offs should be right beside the net to increase scoring chances. I mean, we all know what face-offs in the neutral zone are anyhow. I think if your team goes offside, the face-off should come all the way back down

into your zone. Now people have said, okay, it's gonna be more conservative with the zone entries, et cetera, and I understand all that, but I don't understand the idea of dropping the puck that far away from a scoring chance. Now I'm kind of putting you on the spot here, not asking you to take to the general manager's meetings, but if you want to go ahead, present it as your own. Do you have an initial thought on

getting rid of all neutral zone face-offs outside of the beginning of the period and after a goal? Yeah, I think it's interesting. I'm trying to remember as you're telling me that when I was going to the HL meetings a lot in my prior role, there was a rule introduced where I think it was had to do with with power play. So a penalty called at the end of a period. So as time expired or after the period ended, the proposal was instead of having that face-off as center ice, that face-off should be in the offensive zone.

Yes. So kind of what you're saying, but not as extreme, maybe, is what you're saying. And I forget why it got shot down. I think a lot of it was just general fan confusion reasons. But yeah, I'm with you. I think those, you know, it's funny when you see how often guys get kicked out of face offs in the offensive slash defensive zone.

And then you'll see two guys cheating incredibly in the center ice dot. And you know, the ref kind of tries to straighten them out and eventually just drops a puck because it's like, let's just get going here. So I see what you're saying about the relative importance of the face-offs. Or we can take it historical and just start with the puck on the ice and a referee isn't even in the circle, it just rings the bell and that's how face-offs use.

Whenever I hear someone say, I'm a traditionalist, I say, oh, you don't like the drop for the face-off? Because face-offs used to start with the puck on the ice, but I digress and you're a busy guy. You do the old street hockey face-off, right? You tap your sticks three times and then you go. Let's go back to street hockey. Now you're getting somewhere.

That's my first learned face-off technique and that third tap you hit their stick as hard as you can and then you win the face-off every time. And then you swing your hips around a box out and the draw is yours and you got possession. Chris this is great. Thanks so much for stopping by congratulations on the Lindgren deal and best of luck as trade deadline approaches. Thank you really great talking to you. There he is Chris Patrick is the general manager of the Washington Capitals. And as I grab these books here to show you one more time, Craig Bolesby is one of my favorite hockey historians.

1913, the year they invented the future of hockey. And it's a real quick read, folks, if you don't wanna read like this sucker with a lot of words and a lot of pages, although this is really thorough. This is a great one, because it focuses on the creation of the forward pass and what that meant for hockey, what that meant for the PCHA and how that bled

eventually finally into the the National Hockey League. And then Empire of Ice, the rise and fall of the league that's Franklin Luster's, Franklin Luster started and used innovations such as numbers on the jerseys, there was the forward pass, there was the introduction of the blue line, there was the introduction of the farm system as well. That is Patrick family. There's like a whole laundry list of things and Zach will bring you into this one here.

The whole laundry list of things that the Patrick family were responsible for. I've always made the point that this is the first family of hockey. When you look at like the one family Who had the most effect on hockey like still to this day? We see the things that the Patricks did between like, you know 1911 all the way through like to the 1930s to say it

We didn't even we even talk about Lester going in net for the New York Rangers the original e bug Coming in out of the stands. Here it comes. That was a whole side story because they wouldn't allow a number of other goaltenders in net. And so Lester finally said, fine, I'll do it myself. It is like, honestly, whenever I think the Patrick family, that is the first family of hockey, period.

You ever thought on that one? You know what I mean? Well, it's pointed out, yeah, it was pointed out in the chat by J Rock that if it wasn't for his family then, we quite literally wouldn't have the great eight. That wouldn't be a thing. There would be no great eight if it wasn't for inventing the Jersey numbers, which I thought was just kind of funny, like full circle, he's now the GM while a Mexican is

going to break. And now we're saying the great eight. If I were a better host, I would have probably noted that right away and come back and say, well, if it wasn't for Lester and Frank, we wouldn't have the great eight. It would just be Alex scored again. Yeah, exactly. Dylan passed it to Alex. I like that last minute penalty rule. I think that was interesting.

The one that I've thought about in that moment or like when to alleviate that or change that would be being able to elect for a penalty shot only in the final minute or like in the final time slot. Like if there's maybe you make it a number like 30 seconds. That would be the spot for me where you could say, hey, we're not going to take this penalty and we're not going to go to the power play

because we don't want to have the momentum killed. We'll take the penalty shot. I think that would be cool or having the option to push it to the next period and starting with it. But yeah, I mean, I like the idea of innovating and getting creative with rules. No more neutral zone face-offs. Yes, I do I like the idea of innovating and getting creative with rules. No more neutral zone face-offs? Yes, I do like that one.

I don't know about extending the period, but I do like the idea of you start the next period with an offensive zone draw. Anything just to create more action around, like what is a neutral zone? Like the neutral zone is just something you just got to get through, right? That's a transition zone. Like I always try to make as little play in that because I mean how many times have you seen like a really good game wrecked because oh they clogged the neutral zone. Like the neutral zone is where the game goes to die.

It should be a place where like you just gather speed and get going into the into the offensive zone So anything that I really think about these days is all just about like how do we get everybody out of the neutral zone? How does we get everything out of the neutral zone and for me it starts with face-offs? I Like to start the period for for Adam who asked in the chat a question about Nolan Patrick, no association with Nolan Patrick and the Patrick family. No, I didn't even put that together. I was like, well, why? Yeah, that would make sense. There you go. Merrick wants shorter ranks. That's a good one. It's just two zones, just two halves. Actually.

It's the same wits, but. Yeah. Listen, I just want to get rid of lines altogether. This is what goes back to my idea of having R&D camps every summer. If there's any sport that's dying for it, I think it's hockey. Just because hockey needs like a million years

proof of concept. And I'm glad actually that Chris brought up the American Hockey League and those innovations. Cause once upon a time time like the American League was one spot time the American League was a place where you tried new ideas right you tried different things rules innovations it was like a it was like more of a fun league but then I guess the NHL the American Hockey League sort of got together and said like look we're calling up a of players here. We don't want them playing with one rules package in the AHL or one way to play in the American League. And then boom, now you call them to the NHL

and oh yeah, by the way, now we do things up here differently. There's just got to be a place where you can try different things, try different ideas. That's why I always go back to, you know, just do an R&D camp every year. Be like a summer league, put a couple extra bucks in a few ECHL players' pockets and do like games twice a week. And you make it a TV sport for us hockey fans that still want to watch hockey and maybe just different rules, different equipment, different, you know, different, uh, different configurations of the rink. I don't know.

Come up with different stuff. I don't know come up with different stuff I don't know anyhow thanks for Chris I don't know the configurations of the yeah here's why no here no here's why you might tell you why because before the show today you asked me about the Eerie Otters Peter Borough Pete's right yeah and the coach is getting into it like there was some poking of the goaltender that led up to all, we just saw the video of like coaches going at it in between. There was a lead up to the whole thing.

But still, as far as the configurations of the rink go, like I'm not saying like all of a sudden the Boston Bruins rink is triangular, right? Like that, it's not what I'm saying. Yeah, it's not like MLB, every diamond is different. Which I do like by the way, but still Be looking at a rink like Peterborough look how tight the boards are So if you do like a hard rim on your dump in the pucks shooting out to the front of the net

You know what that sucks for lacrosse by the way really what across in that rink Because it makes it it just makes it sharper So if the ball goes into that corner, it kicks way differently. Or if you miss on a shot and it goes into the corner, the rebound that goes out back the other way is very different than what a normal corner would be. This is a side note, but I played there and it's nuts. I knew it was different and then I saw that and was like, wow, this is something to behold. Producer Vic, vacation Vic, first star Vic from Morning Cup of Hockey. I hate that you can ice the puck when you're shorthanded.

It's true, we change the rules. I hate that you can put your goalie back in after you ice the puck with a pulled goalie. Again, we change the rules. Oh, they could just say it's a line. You could, no, you could just say that one's a line change. I do like the first one though. I do like the first one. Why all of a sudden do we change the rules? Just to make it easier. Like, you know what wrecked it? I'll tell you what. You know what wrecked a lot of things? How good the Montreal Canadiens power play was in the 1950s. Because

that's when you had to serve like the full two minutes of a penalty and Montreal just throw like Elmer Locke, Rocket Richard and like the penalty like they'd score like four goals the game would be over so if you want to blame anyone blame the Montreal Canadiens or as I like to do when anything goes wrong blame our next guest she is Shana Goldman from the athletic and the too many men podcast and Shana Goldman from The Athletic and the Too Many Men podcast. And Shana, when things go wrong, I normally blame you. How does that make you feel today? I mean, sure, you can try, but I'll just tell you how much wronger you are. How much wronger? Oh, okay. First day with the new tongue. How's the language going?

Okay. You're wronger, Merrick. It's going. It's going. Okay. It's deadline week, we're writing a billion words at a time. I know! It's going to have perfect ones. Sexily today, I'm like, okay, this could be a total long shot because I know she's doing like a million things and trades are happening all the time and she breaks down all of them. But, you know, then Jared Bednar started lippin' off about analytics and it's like, okay, I think I know who we want to talk to about this one. And lipping off I say tongue-in-cheek because really I think what Bednar was saying I think you probably believe in just so our listeners slash viewers have context for this. And if I'm springing this on you

last minute and you haven't seen this I want to say that I apologize but I really don't. Here's Jared Bednar, coach of the Colorado Avalanche. This is interesting. This is comments on defenseman Ryan Lindgren now on his team. Analytics is tricky because we might not value the same things they value. Our model is likely different. And we may deploy him different, right? Like we have Taser and Kale, it was him and Fox.

So he might, he like, he might see less time against some of the top guys in the league, he might see more in certain situations, he might see less time overall. But we look at the strengths of what we think are the his strengths of his game and what we like about that. And we're excited about the physicality, the net front presence, like all the defending metrics. I think he's got pretty good ozone metrics as well. Like we've been struggling with our D to like, you know know be productive with three pairs and so like to add a guy of his caliber for us it's exciting you know and like I said the analytic side of it it's can be tricky sometimes you know if we feel like if we

get an understanding of his game getting clear on our system, deploy them the right way. We feel like those numbers will be moving in the right direction. Okay, a couple of things there. Is it just me, Shane, or like whenever I look at Jared Bednar, I always think like he's the guy in beer league that's still playing, is better than everybody else and takes it way too seriously.

He's in great shape, he's still got the hockey hair, he's still got the sort of like little younger man hockey innocence about him. He still looks like he's the guy that's playing beer league and is always going to, but takes it way more serious than everybody else. Anyhow, your thoughts on what Jared Bednar had to say about Ryan Lindgren and quote, the analytics. I mean, I think he's right. I think he's pretty spot on with it. First of all, every team, let's say they have the same data set, right? Because we know that there's a bunch of private data companies and every team works with them. Say everybody use Sport Logic. It doesn't

mean that their models are the same because that data is the base of what they build up from there. Every team does it differently and the Avalanche have a very smart analytics department. So I models are the same because that data is the base of what they build up from there. Every team does it differently and the Avalanche have a very smart analytics department. So I would not be doubting them if they say, hey, the numbers can check out because like he mentioned, they're going to be using Ryan Lingren differently. And I think this is the key to it all. There's different contexts for every single team systematically. There's different contexts for the quality of teammates and for the role that you're

going to be asking the player to play. In New York, Ryan Lingren played a role that was above his depths over the last two years, right? If you can't shake it with Adam Fox in New York There might be something wrong with your game and his game has declined not just this year But over the last two years and yes the injuries have something to do with that I think but I think the system did too I think was too taxing for him to be as active in all three zones as he had to be with New York under Peter Laviolette and I don't think that the Rangers made adjustments to fit his game a little bit more.

I think this year, when you watch his game and it came back to the lineup, when he was healthy enough to play, you could see that he was missing the basics. He wasn't boxing out opponents the way he should have been. His stick wasn't in the right position. He wasn't doing his primary job, which is protecting the net. I think that he was going up too far sometimes in the defensive zone and playing a role that was bigger than what he needs to do based on his skill set and based on what his role is because he has someone like Adam Fox at his side.

I think that's problem number one. I don't think you're going to have that problem in Colorado because one, he's not going to play matchup minutes like Bednar mentioned. They have players who can do that already. And two, they're not going to be using them in a top pair capacity. Then three, you add in the fact that the Avs have a totally different system and that I think their coaching staff has done a really good job maximizing players within it for years now.

I would feel a lot more confident in what the Avs can get out of his game at this point versus what the Rangers did. All right. Um, to the big trade of the weekend. And that was, uh, that was very, one of the things that I would come back to on the Bednar example too is the idea of public versus private models, and that which is public, I've always been warned against putting too much stock in,

people in NHL teams, and I always say to myself, listen, if you want to just end the argument, you want to make all of your private models public, like I'm sure we'd love all of us. I know there's a very distinctive community, which my friend Shayna is a vibrant part of, that would love to see these private models you use to scoff at the public ones. Now, Seth Jones is now a member of the Florida Panthers, to which Shayna Goldman says, what's? Great, honestly, great for everybody in this in the situation. I am working on something about Seth Jones. The trade kind of messed things up for me because it was

supposed to be whether contender could revitalize his game. Now we're specifically going to be looking at the Panthers. So I still have some legwork to do, you know, to use their system and apply it to his game. But I think a couple things are true here. I don't think Seth Jones was ever the defenseman the Blackhawks envisioned him to be. The contract was an overpayment at the time. It's not just in hindsight. And I think they needed him to be something he couldn't on a team that didn't have enough support around him. There's a big difference between playing that role in Columbus when he had Zach Warinski, who, oh, look, is a Norris Calvert defenseman and always has been, you know, to what they had in Chicago. But I also think, you know, I think that it's going to be tough for anybody

to not just play well in that surroundings, especially the way everything has gone over the last couple of years, but to thrive in it, to survive in it, like you're asking for a ton right there. So it's not really a shock that he struggled to the extent that he did. And while, yes, everyone can look at the quotes and say, well, he wasn't the leader they needed and it didn't work out in the room, whatever. I'm throwing that aside right now because I think everything got so bad in Chicago that sometimes you have to look through the trees and remember what has been going on there and put that context behind

his comments as well. The one thing, Colby Cohen was mentioning this on Morning Cup of Hockey this morning, I think it's a really good point. This isn't what Seth Jones signed up for like he was he was brought in not for a rebuild He was brought in when the Chicago Blackhawks were still spending to the cab significant, you know playoff playoff Expectations like this this was this was at the end of what we now know was that that era of Empire for the Chicago Blackhawks in the NHL right before you know the Great Fall and then the and then the rebuild that's when

Seth Jones was brought in like he wasn't brought in like okay you're gonna you know Shepherd and I am Kevin Kaczynski throughout his you know first few years in the NHL and Ethan Del Mastro etc like no that's not why he was brought in he was brought in when this team was still deliberately competitive, not deliberately, you know, looking at the lottery every year. Yes. I mean, OK, I look at the Blackhawks then, the team that he joined, and he should have known he wasn't joining a contender, right? Like, I know that they were buying at the time and they thought they were something that they weren't. But, you know, you could

kind of see things weren't going to go well, but not to this extent, right? He probably didn't think, okay, if I join this team, they're going to completely tear it down and not just rebuild but go through one of the most painful rebuilds I think are going to scare other teams off from doing it. So it's going to be a night and day experience to join a team like the Florida Panthers, who one don't need him to play the same role that he did in Chicago, two have a ton more support for him and three are really good at Maximizing defensemen within their system and I know some of their cheaper lower risk You know signings didn't work out this year like it did last year

but I think that here it's gonna just be a totally different experience because He brings a lot to the table like this is someone who with the blue jackets was trusted to be a rover and it's funny Because if you go back to that blue jackets era I do remember a lot of people talking about his underlying numbers and going, is he actually that good? And then, you know, you kind of compare that to someone like the work of Alison Lucan, who is deep diving into why he's good and what the context behind the numbers is and what his role is. And I think that's important to keep in mind.

But he was trusted to be a rover back then. He was really good at retrieving pucks, breaking them out of his own zone, and rushing up the ice to join the offense, and he was also really sound offensively. If he can reclaim some of those traits, which I think we still are seeing really, really, really deep below the surface in Chicago this year, it's going to work out really well for the Panthers. Do you want to, how do I phrase this? Do you want to put your hand, try putting your hand on the stove here and try to talk about goaltending with me?

Fuck it, let's go. All right, so Spencer Knight goes the other way in a first round pick. And by the way, congratulations, Shane and I had a challenge next time we were on together who would say fuck first, you win. What do you think of the return? I mean, I think the Black Oaks do need that cornerstone goaltender to be the backbone

of their future. It is going to be a wake up call for Spencer Knight because he has been playing behind a very good Panthers team but I think he's been really good this year. Like I've been really impressed with it because last year when he came back his numbers were a little bit worrisome and the AHL his numbers weren't great and you know it took him a minute to find his footing, but then he did he's been when you look at Like the goal saved what expected I know it's not apples to apples because you know, their playing time has been different Yep, but he said stronger numbers than Bobrovsky time this this year. Can you sustain that across full season?

We don't know we've never seen him do it But if they could use him as a 50-50 tandem guy and then start easing them into that starting workloads place 60% of the games because I think he I think he's going to have to adjust to playing a lot more, I think he's gonna be a very good goalie there. It's just gonna take time and the numbers aren't going to be pretty as long as that defense is what it is.

And it sounds like the Blackhawks need a lot of time before they're going to turn the corner. Yeah, this is not, like I was saying at the top of the show too, like this is great and they got a big piece back there. I feel bad if I'm Drew Come Yeah, this is not, like I was saying at the top of the show too, like this is great and they got a big piece back there. I feel bad if I'm Drew Camesso, I'm like, I thought I was gonna be the guy.

But there's still ways away. This team is not gonna get better. Like here, actually here's something for you. Do you think that San Jose is Chicago next season? Because right now it's still like, oh, look at San Jose andlin Celebri, even though it's a game time decision today, Macklin Celebri is doing this and Will Smith that and Askerof made this great save and wee isn't this fun and here come the Sharks. Like reality sets in on a rebuild pretty fast. Like Chicago was that last year with Connor Bedard and we all know what this year has felt like.

Do you think that San Jose is Chicago next year? Not quite. If I'm going to compare them to anyone, it might be the Ducks because I think of the Ducks is like that fun up and coming team. And then it was, let's focus on our defensive structure. And that's when the fun stopped with the Blackhawks last year when Badaard wasn't on the ice. Nobody was having fun. And I think that's the big difference. The sharks have a little bit more supporting talent than the Blackhawks did, right? And I know the Blackhawks went out and got some

this past summer. They brought in Bertuzzi, they brought in Tara Vina, and they brought in some help. So it's not just Bidard, Nick Foligno, nobody else, and Jason Dickinson. But I think the Sharks did a pretty good job with that. I like the addition of Tyler Toffoli, and Grandlin was playing really well,

and Wenberg makes a lot of sense because he can eat heavy minutes if they need him to. I don't necessarily know if the Sharks are going to be good anytime soon. I don't think they're going to be. But I think that they're doing a better job putting the pieces in place because as much as the Blackhawks brought in those players, they didn't even play them with B'Dard until after the coaching change, right? I think at the time of the coaching change, if I remember correctly, and I'm sure

someone will correct me if I'm wrong, Bertuzzi and B'Dard had only spent 15% of their 5 on 5 ice time together. So you have to go, then what was the point of bringing him in? It was to give Bedard someone so everything wasn't so daunting on the franchise cornerstone. I just think the Sharks' coaching has done a better job.

I know they're not perfect, but I just see a little bit more, like I see more encouraging signs there than I do with the Blackhawks right now. I think the Blackhawks pulled themselves so far back, even while they're already in the midst of this process, that it's gonna be a lot harder to move forward. A couple of minutes left with you.

By the way, J-Rock in the chat, does Shayna do live shows where she interacts with the chat? She's awesome. How good are you at taking compliments these days? Good as ever? Yeah, yeah, I'm totally great at that. I don't track the live chat at all while we do this.

I don't know if I should. No, no, no, J-Rock's just saying like, cause I know you guys don't on the live chat at all while we do this. I don't know if I should No, no, no Jay rocks just saying like because I know you guys don't know on the too many men pod because you guys you Sarah and Allison Don't do that. Don't do that one like live on YouTube But is there anywhere that people can interact with you on a chat? Other than to maybe I'll just put up your like phone number here at the end of the show. I can yeah There you go up your cell number at the end of the show As you know, I don't answer my phone anyway,

unless it's a text. No, just like you can try to read it. That's true. That is true. I am the worst with that. But no, you could tweet at me. Just if you're not an asshole, I'll answer. All right, there you go.

Hey, J-Rock, don't be an asshole. It's that simple. Okay, real quickly, couple of quotes. Trade to NHL, trade deadline week. Who are you most interested in like who's piqued your your curiosity more than any other team? I am very intrigued by the Colorado Avalanche. I think it is a very impressive undertaking that they completely overturned their goaltending in season as quickly as they did. I think

that they are a smart team that they know when to spend when not to spend and I think they're very good at addressing their needs. While Lingard isn't perfect, I understand the move for them. I really like what they did with their goaltending. And I keep looking at them going, what are they gonna do with 2C? Or what are they gonna do with that third line that there's not as much emphasis on

whether or not Casey Middlestock can be really good, right? And I think he's gonna be better now that he has healthy wingers. But they are probably the most intriguing to me because I just don't think they're done yet. And I think that they've, you know, made shock waves through the NHL. If I, if not them, it's probably Utah. Why Utah?

Why not Utah? They're still in the playoff race. There's the, listen, they're, they're still in there. I know we're all having a fun, even though they, they just dropped one with the St. Louis blues as well, which is another team that like, if you want to talk about like a bunny hop team, like that, that's the one, like just when I'm about to jump on board and you know, uh, we all love Robert Thomas and I know you do as, as well on this program, uh, just when I want to get on board, bam, they just go like, take it

off the road into the ditch. Who are St. Lou who are the St. Louis blues here? I'm not deflecting away from Utah. I'll go back, but the other team in that race with Vancouver and Calgary, who are, who are the St. Louis blues?

They've changed my mind a little bit. Um, after the offer sheets, I'm going to be honest, because I looked at them and I went, this is a team that I feel like is going to keep circling the drain and not do anything to get better. And I feel like the fact that they finally took some bold swings and they didn't just go for these same Aging stars and their 30s and late 20s that you look at the contracts and go this is gonna be terrible I have a little bit more like interest in what they're going to do

I'm all the sudden interested in what this management group had to say when I definitely wasn't Even just a few months ago But I think that they're a team that they need to figure out their identity. And it's tough because they have stars in that, you know, they're in their primes now, they're not, you know, it's not that next wave of the blues. Like they are in it right now, so they have to turn around quickly. I think that there's a way to do it

and be really aggressive along the way. And I would like to see them try, like can you retool at this point? Because I think that they have to be a retooling team. I'm just not so sure. Like they have a lot of contracts to work around Let me close with this. It is a question from the chat. It is from Johnny Lazarus

Also known as Johnny Lazarus Shana When will Ben Shelton finally get his major? It's not gonna be anytime soon because that man is not good on clay at all. That's why he skipped the Olympics last year to not have to play on clay. I think hard court is going to be his best bet. I think he finally is improving because he really got stagnant for a year there and I think a little full of himself.

I think now he has the right confidence and skill and he's finally trending up that I'm like, okay, I could see it happening, but I'm not sure he's the next American player to do it. I like Tommy Paul and Taylor Fritz a little better still. Is that your audition tape for the tennis channel? No, absolutely not. I never, ever, ever am doing work about tennis. I'm slowly, just so everyone knows, I'm slowly trying to drag Shana into being like this, this multi-sport commentator, cause she's, she's, listen, she's gold with hockey. I'm like, every time I talk to you, it's like, oh, I'm watching this tennis.

Oh, it's, it's Ozzy open. So you can get me like four o'clock in the morning, Merrick, I'll get these texts from you. Like you should be watching this. I'm like, Shayna it's 3.30 in the morning. I should be watching nothing. I'm texting when you wake up. I'm texting you things saying like,

you're going to wake up now or you're already up. You wake up at what? Five, six in the morning? 5-30. Yeah, so you can watch primetime matches start at 5 o'clock, but now we're getting into the season that's perfect for you because French and Wimbledon, they're all starting around like 5-6 a.m. All right, well, I will pay more attention when you do this as a second career. How about that? Oh, come on.

I'm gonna be a, what is it? Jack of all trades, master of none. Nobody needs that. Because the thing about you is like, master of none. Nobody needs that. No, but the thing about you is like you'll go deep on it too. You're not just gonna go wide. You'll go deep on tennis too. You'll be like this, yeah, you will be.

No, don't shake your head. That's mine. I'm never touching it. That is mine. That's like baseball for me. Yeah. I love it. I don't want to do anything professional with it.

I wouldn't if I had to talk about the Blue Jays. Look, I want that management staff just fired talk about the Blue Jays. Look, I want that management staff just fired. Like, to the moon. Like, Atkinson-Shipiro, day late, dollar short, beat it. Now they're gonna lose Vladdy and they're gonna lose Bo. And they came in just blasting on Alex Anthopoulos. And all he's done is gone on to win World Series and build a juggernaut in Atlanta. And in my secret baseball fantasy, that's where Vladdy goes and he wins like a million World Series and build a juggernaut in Atlanta. And in my secret baseball fantasy, that's where Vlad goes and he wins like a million World Series with

Alex Anthopoulos. I like that. It's like with Barclay in the Super Bowl. I root it for him. I'm like, good, let the Giants feel complete shame and embarrassment for how they handled that. Yeah, that's what I want. I want Vlad to go where Alex Anthopoulos is and just win all the World Series. Anyhow, I digress. All right, enjoy writing a bajillion words this week, and I really feel bad for you because I know what's gonna happen. You're gonna start writing on something and all of a sudden a trade is gonna happen and you're gonna have to control a...

You know what? I don't have that problem this week at all. I do not. I cleared the decks. Now that Seth Jones has been traded, I'm just simply tweaking it. But everything else is just going to be as it happens. I finished everything else. Look at you. What do you find in the hours? Holy smokes. I don't know.

And you have like a million dogs to take care of too. I know. I don't. I know. Everyone always asks me like, how do you get things done Like I don't know, you don't want to know. I don't want to know, you don't want to know, it's fine. How do you make it, next time you're on, my first question is gonna be how do you make it through a day? Shana Goldman, how do you get through a day? That's what I think I'm most curious about after knowing you for as many years as I have. Okay, you'll be good, thanks so much for hopping on today, you're the best. You can find her at Too Many Men podcast and also at the athletic. She is a great Shaina Goldman.

And you can find her on Twitter X, Hey Shae, H-A-Y-Y-Y, S-H-A-Y-Y-Y. I think I got that right. No? It's wrong? Changed. Shayna Goldman underscore. She changed it? When did she change it?

I know. Are you sure you don't have a fake account? Are you sure? Well, that would be bad if I'm the one getting got here. Yeah, no, I'm right. Shayna Goldman underscore. Boring. Hey Shay was way better. Come on. Come on. I'm gonna have Shana Goldman underscore. Boring. Hey, Shay was way better.

Come on. Come on. Come on, Shay. I'm going to have to blast her for that. I'd even ask her about the chips too. After she like, she tried. She thought she was taking a shot at me by going after the Blue Jays. Meanwhile, I'm like, no one's hating on the Jays more than me right now. I don't care. No, just keep blasting blast, blast, blast, blast.

All of them. Blast all of them to the moon all of them for what they've done to that that's my first job to work in Blue Jays games versa foods selling hot dogs and jumbo coax up and down the aisles I just took the job so I could watch baseball so I could watch baseball games all right thanks to Shana for stopping by want Want to let you know as well, Canada, your favorite contest is back. Roll Up to Win is back at Tim Hortons and that means you could win millions of amazing prizes with just the swipe of a thumb.

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No purchase necessary. Visit the Tim's app for details. Chad was lively today. I couldn't help reading it. And there were some mentions of the chips that Shane is still owes me. People seem to seem to really like Chris Patrick as well. Like he's a new general manager rookie season,

but he's been with the organization for a lot of years going back to when George McPhee was a general manager. He started as a scout and worked his way all the way up not unlike Chris McFarland did. Although he started with he started with where did Chris start? I think Chris started with the Islanders and then started to work his way up. Anyhow so yeah so Patrick's been with the Islanders and then started to work his way up anyhow so yeah so Patrick's been with the organization for a number of years and was there for the Stanley Cup so I think when the Washington Capitals won the Stanley Cup he was the sixth member of the Patrick family to win a Stanley Cup. Not too shabby eh? Not bad at all. Anyhow, anything spicing

your chili here as we get ready to get to our games of the night? You want to do LTIR slash Matthew Kachuk? That's the one thing that I've been looking at and we left out and wasn't talked about because there's the whole Seth Jones thing and all that, but there's the other part. Seth Jones comes in and you say, wow, how are the Florida Panthers gonna, for this, how are the Florida Panthers gonna create any wiggle room here for their general manager

in advance of trade deadline as they look to defend a Stanley Cup victory from last year. Matthew Kachuk to LTIR. Really the only point that I wanted to make is the one that I already made and that is I just want someone to ask Nikita Kucherov tonight what he thinks about it. Tonight's a Florida Panthers facing off against the Tampa Bay Lightning. I think this one's going to be rough. I think this is one of those like, okay, let's send the message for the postseason between the two. And I just want someone to ask Kutcher off that question.

Is that too much to ask? Asking someone. It's the only question I should be asking tonight. Ask the kid at Kutcher off where you can throw Matthew Kichak going on LTIR before I take that line. But the thing is like, listen, I don't have any problem with any of it. I didn't have a problem with Pat Kane.

I didn't have any problem with Nikita Kucherov. Didn't have any problem with Mark Stone. Everyone's fine with it because there's no appetite to change any of it. And we'll see even if there is, when the CBA rolls around and there's a new collective bargaining. We'll see who actually squawks or who just says, you know what, it's an imperfect system,

but what are we supposed to do otherwise here? Like I understand the idea of maybe if you're on LTIR and all of a sudden miraculously you're fine. Like if you couldn't, can't play in the last week of the season, maybe you missed the first game I don't know but in the Players Association, you can be assured is going to squawk about that Until I see a better idea for it Then I'm fine with it. And listen, we'll see when Tyler Sagan shows up for the Dallas Stars We'll see when Matthew Kachak shows up for the Florida Panthers. I don't know. Chicago Blockhawks were just the first ones to

realize, ooh, hmm, we can maybe use this to our advantage. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting. I don't have a problem with it either. I was listening to the morning take, Leafs morning take, guys, that is, and they were talking about, Rosie's like, the problem is that you can go into the playoffs and now be You can dress let's say is maybe the better way to put it like eight nine ten million dollars over the salary cap Depending on how you manage your roster throughout the season and if you have LTI are and that's where he took issue with it But I don't know right, but he also did say I want to give him credit for you Did say like he doesn't have an issue

with people utilizing this. It's more so the big picture conversation of being able to store and then use it late, like have those later. Like is that something that's gonna come up with like the integrity of competition? If that makes sense. You know what, first of all, we're talking about sports.

Like let's just drop the integrity word to begin with. Like let's just stop, this is professional, let's just professional sport I mean you know what the Edmonton Oilers used to do here comes history lesson Edmonton Oilers every year would store a ray over at Salanen in Finland Minnesota nursers actually did this with Ron Wilson as well in Italy and then come playoff time all of a sudden that player would magically appear for their, for their playoff run.

Like this is really nothing. This is a, if nothing else, this is a new twist on an old story. It's all it is. This is nothing new. And the Oilers did it. North stars did it. Teams have done it before. They just don't have the wrinkle of the salary cap.

But again, you know what? Again, you know what, again, you know what this comes back to? My old blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, about take the training wheels off the salary cap. Yeah, that's the same spot that I go to. Like you want this to go away, it's not the LTIR and the IR that has to be fixed,

it's the other areas of this. But that's a big conversation that's for another time. Yeah. The other thing that people don't realize is like you don't get the player. Like while that play, like the Florida Panthers don't have Matthew Kachuck right now. Like the Vegas Golden Knights don't know, didn't have Mark Stone while he was injured. Like that's not as if like all of a sudden like, Oh look, they're playing with a hundred million dollars with the hockey players. No, they're not well. They have those for the playoffs

Yeah, but you got to get through a long slog here without those like the Dallas Stars don't have Tyler Sagan don't have me or Hey skinted You don't get to use those Obvious statement you don't get to use those players So let's see which managers really have an appetite to push this as far as a change goes or owners really have have an appetite to change all of this or just look at it and say not perfect but what is and we'll just leave it leave LTIR the way it is show me that perfect system but again take the training wheels off the salary cap we've had this since 2005 let's play with the salary cap now and change it now that we all sort of understand how this is supposed to work and how we all understand where the loopholes are to exploit.

Now it's time maybe we play with the salary cap a little bit more. Okay. connect fans to the major sports moments that matter to them, roster updates from Daily Face Off's fantasy Twitter slash ex-feed, and unfortunately no beautiful, sloppy, wonderful, exciting afternoon games. Just regular games at night. Ottawa Center is face off against the Washington Capitals at Capital One. It is Montreal and Buffalo at the Bell Center. Buffalo's an interesting team. I think that everyone's up for grabs for the right price there for the Buffalo Sabres. And I think that Kevin Adams is a motivated seller, but I don't think he's going to give anything away.

I've mentioned countless times here that Tampa and Florida are facing off against each other at Amaranth Bank Arena this evening. Vasilevsky versus Bobrovsky. And will someone please ask Nikita Kucherov what he thinks about Makachuk going in LTIR. Just please just humor me a little bit. Rangers facing off, like this is a good little rivalry night, hey? Tampa, Florida. Islanders facing off against the Rangers. Those games are always spicy. San Jose faces off against your Toronto Maple Leafs Zach Phillips Macklin Celebrini lower body injury game time decision Cali Yeah, I'm close. You what what sorry. Did you see what cell happen with Celebrini?

Worsowski said game time decision lower body injury 24 minutes later Macklin Celebrini said he's pumped up to play in Toronto tonight. He's feeling great and ready to go. Coaches, coaches love that. Hey coach! Look dumb dumb. Kelly Yarncroke. I told you what his name translates in Swedish, right? Iron Hook, right? Iron hook right yeah, Kelly iron hook in there tonight Ryan Reeves iron right hook is is out for the Toronto Maple Leafs and Los Angeles Chicago our first peak the debut of

The new goaltender with the Chicago Blackhawks Spencer night gets to start A new goaltender with the Chicago Blackhawks. Spencer Knight gets the start. True Knight for the Chicago Blackhawks. Anything spicing your chili there? I know you're going to be busy with the Maple Leafs and the San Jose Sharks. Whenever I hear San Jose Sharks from a certain vintage, a lot of Maple Leafs fans can still hear the sound of Johann Garpenloff hitting the crossbar. That's an early 90s reference in your

Toronto Maple Leaf San Jose Sharks rivalry. Yeah, going back to the early 90s. Johan Garpenloff, that's for the olds there, young man. That's for Garpenloff hitting the crossbar. Say that to a certain vintage of Toronto Maple Leaf fans and they'll shudder. Yeah, I've never heard that name before. Oh yeah, Johan Garbov?

No, I have not. Children, children. I'm gonna be a scumbag here, and Johnny Lazarus, close your ears. I brought it up quickly in the chat this morning. I'm very interested to watch the game between the Rangers and the Islanders tonight. We had the conversation about when do the Islanders wave the white flag and call it dead. I know that the Rangers are technically still in and around it and they could make the playoffs here. There's a chance. I just feel like there's

been so much sourness around that and I keep watching and waiting here now. You got rid of Truba, Laff, Lingren but Rangers fans have mowed through their whipping boys like we had in Toronto Justin Hall and he lasted years and then he was gone the Rangers whipping boy comes up and they just see you later the next one comes this has been like the season from hell from them from all aspects I feel like there's just gonna be a new guy. One struggle, one bad pass, and Artemi Piner and you're on the hot seat. So like that's kind of the team that I'm watching because they're just flirting with the playoffs. You bring in JT Miller and then it's just like I don't know.

I don't know. I'm not convinced on them. You know what your fans always do? You're trying to make police fans. You know what they always do as far as whipping boys go? They pick one and it is always a Defenseman. Yeah, it is Larry Murphy. It is Aki Berg. It is Corey Cross It is Brian McCabe. It is Jake Gardner. It is Justin Hall. Like there's always a Defenseman, I don't know what it is about your fans, Zach Maybe you put this, do this on your show today and whoever can come up with a sufficient answer, you do more smelling salts. I know you do

it for 50 likes. You just bust out the smelling salts some more. You got a freshie? You got a freshie ready to go? Yeah, I got a brand new bottle. It's nuts. I did it yesterday and my eyes were watering. I was crying on the show. I'm like, I need to finish this now. If you can explain to me why Toronto Maple Leafs fans always pick as their one player Who's who just gets like all the slings and arrows all the venom heap their way. It's always a defenseman Always always always always a defenseman This goes back to Larry Murphy who they ran out of town and then Larry just went on to win Stanley Cups Your fans have ruined more defensemen Than any other fan bases who run defensemen How about that one? Well, a lot of people are worried that that Larry Murphy situation will happen with a

Forward if he decides to leave this coming summer Jeff. Dun dun dun dun dun. Are we gonna have that conversation now? Now we don't have time. Okay, thank you to Shannon Goldman from The Athletic and the Too Many Men podcast for stopping by. Thank you to Chris Patrick, the general manager of the Washington Capitals and the Washington Capitals for making him available, A, on a game day and B, in advance of trade deadline. Well, to see what the Caps end up doing. Like, I very much am of the belief that this is, as I mentioned with Chris,

I think this is gonna be more tweak than trade deadline for the Washington Capitals, but as I mentioned off the top of the show, I think that this is going to be the week of surprises around the NHL. Always a trade or two that we didn't see coming. Oh I didn't know that player was available. Oh I didn't know this guy asked for a trade and then BAM it happens. I just don't know that it happens at or on trade deadline. By the

way our coverage here at the daily face-off gets underway at 11 o'clock Eastern concludes at 4 o'clock Eastern on Friday. On behalf of Zach and everyone behind the scenes here, which is pretty much like me and Zach, we kinda keep it tight and bright, thanks for joining us here today. Thanks to everybody in the chat, everyone listening, everybody watching, interacting, or just enjoying.

We thank you for your attention. Tomorrow at 9 a.m. as always, 9am Eastern, is Morning Cup of Hockey, Johnny Lazarus of She's the One and Kobe Cohen with Morning Cup of Hockey, DFO Live at noon and then this program at 3 o'clock Eastern. Thank you so much

for joining us today. We are back tomorrow at 3 o'clock with the show. Thank you. I'm like, man, you're trying to give me a little medicine I'm like, no, man, that's fine I'm not against those methods, but I knew It's me, myself, and how this gonna be fixing my mind I do wanna break it I turned on the music I do wanna break it I turned on the music It's turned up, down, up, down Hey hockey fans, Tyle Remczuk here and you you're gonna want to mark your calendars because you do not want to miss the most exciting day of the NHL season. The Daily Face Off Trade Deadline Special is coming your way once again on March 7th from 11am to 4pm Eastern.

We're going to be live and breaking down every single move as it happens in real time, I'll be joined by the Daily Face Off crew, bringing you instant reaction, expert analysis, and all the behind the scenes drama for the biggest news and trades from around the league. And here's the best part, we've got special guests lined up throughout the show to give you exclusive insights from some of the biggest names in the game. From the blockbuster deals to the surprise moves, we'll be covering it all. So what are you waiting for? Subscribe to the Daily Faceoff YouTube, follow us on socials, and on March 7th,

join us as we break down the biggest deadline day in hockey. You won't wanna miss it.