The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Down to Irf: Spencer & Mike Gillis

Episode Date: May 11, 2025

In this special feature to The Sheet podcast, Irfaan Gaffar sits down with Mike and Spencer Gillis, to discussing mental health, the growth of women's hockey, how Spencer got into the agency world representing many PWHL players, the type of advice Mike gives his son, and the impact of social media on sports today. [RECORDED DEC. 2024}WATCH THE FULL VIDEO HERE: https://youtu.be/yh2bu6YWnzc00:00 - Introduction with Jeff and Irfaan3:54 - Spencer getting into the agency world5:30 - Mike on son following his footsteps6:19 - What did Mike pass on to Spencer 8:00 - Spencer on the future of women's hockey9:18 - Mental Health in NHL 10:50 - Rick Rippen12:40 - Social Media14:05 - PWHL x Mental Health14:48 - Why did you get in the industry15:50 - Mike on being a soundboard17:20 - Growth in women's hockey 18:30 - Mike on women's hockey on a global scale21:12 - Most rewarding part of the women's game21:10 - Giving opinions as a agent22:55 - How much Mike has learned being away from the game26:38 - Where is women's hockey going over several years30:25 - Mike on the type of agent Spencer is becoming Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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your sofa, no problem. Stylish selections and design assistance to help you every step of the way. Transform your living space today with Cozy. Visit Cozy.ca, C-O-Z-E-Y.ca, the home of possibilities made easy. There's a program all of us here at The Sheet want to expose you to and share with you if you haven't listened already. It's hosted by veteran voice Irfan Ghaffar and with the elite show title, Down to Irf. It's an interview based podcast with some of the biggest names in hockey and no topics are off limits.

From Paul Bissonnette and his game changing Twitter account to Kevin Biaxa and the transformation from hockey player to hockey dad and Travis Green on trying to find fun in the game after getting fired as a head coach. It's all on the table with Irf. Today we'll hear Irf speak with Mike and Spencer Gillis.

But first, let's hear from Irf-Fan himself. Mike and Spencer Gillis, Irf-Fan Gaffard. Normally when we think father and son in hockey, we think player and player. It's rare that we think manager slash agent to agent. And that's what young Spencer Gillis is doing right now. He's one of the more prominent agents in the women's space, represents a lot of women in the PWHL. His father, Mike, of course, former agent, former general manager, most notably, of course,

with the Vancouver Canucks. I'm curious what you thought going into this interview. So this is you with both of them. What were your expectations? What did you think you were going to get out of both? And what are we about to hear here? Well, before we did the interview, we were miking up Mike and he said to Spencer, we'll see if we can trust members of the media.

So we did the interview and in the end Mike said, yeah you're one of them that we can trust. So again that's Mike being Mike obviously, you know Mike is great and I think that that was the biggest thing. I really didn't know what we were going to get out of Mike. He doesn't do a lot of these interviews. He you know is someone that kind of stays behind the scenes a little bit, but his involvement in hockey, I think, was the most surprising thing for me. How much he is still involved in the game, albeit the women's game, especially

overseas. And for him to hear Spencer talk about how much he looked up to him, if they have ideas they can bounce things off of each other, I think it was a really good conversation between the both of them as well. Yeah, I mean, this was a really nice conversation and I liked that a lot of it revolved around mental health. Now when I think about Mike Gillis specifically, you know, I see him as someone who has always been pioneering in the world of hockey. He was the first with the Sleep Studies with the Vancouver Canucks and placing so much of a premium on rest and recuperation.

I remember at the time kind of laughed at by a lot of people. Now every team does it. Now it's impossible for you to not have that as part of your program and also a special sensitivity towards mental health with all of his athletes. Do you have a quick thought on that before we hit the interview here? No, absolutely. I mean, look, Michael's at the helm of the Vancouver Canucks when, you know, Rick Ripon sadly took his own life. I think it's well documented. You know, Mike talked about there needing to be more resources then. You know, the team went to the league when Rick, you know, was suspended mid season.

And, you know, sadly, you know, Mike said that this was an outcome that they expected. And for him to say that and go about it. And then, you know, I even talked to him about, are we even scratching the surface now? And he said, absolutely not. In the National Hockey League and even in the PWHL and other spaces around sports and mental health, he said, we really have a long way to go. So to hear that from someone who is so close to it and so heavily involved in kind of what went on in the day-to-day things. It really kind of brings things a little bit into perspective for sure. I love it. This is one of my favorite ones that you've done.

This is Mike and Spencer Gillis with Irfan Ghaffar. Down to earth. Here we go. Pleased to be joined by Mike Gillis and Spencer Gillis. Mike, you need no introduction. A lot of people watching know who you are but Spencer. 25 clients, PWHL, 3G Sports Limited. What was the reason for you, I guess, first off, to kind of get into the agency world and do what you're doing now? I started by working with one client. Her name is Soraya Tinker. This was about four years ago, but I was working producing different kinds of content. One of those things was a podcast. It's about athlete activism.

And at that stage, she was advocating for more diversity with her nice hockey. She was incredibly well-spoken and intelligent and kind of the perfect host, I guess. So we started to work together and then quickly discovered how marketable she is. And we're able to negotiate some deals with Nike and EA Sports and Canadian Tire. And it kind of just grew at that stage through word of mouth. Also, also my dad was a player and an agent and work for a team. And, uh, along with that, my mom and sister were both Canadian athletes. Um, I spent a lot of my childhood kind of following my sister around and cheering for her.

So I was always interested, uh, and passionate about women's hockey. And, uh, at that point, there was a lot of development in the sport. Over the past year and a half, obviously, PWHL has had some tremendous success and been able to now work with a great group of clients and really just try to assist them in pushing the sport forward and making sure they're well represented and happy. And so far, it's been just incredible. Mike when you hear your son wanting to fall on your footsteps and go into the agency world

knowing what you knew about it and what you've been through both, you wore so many different hats, what was your initial reaction to seeing what Spencer wanted to do? I thought it was great. I'm really bullish on women's hockey. I think that they are really uniquely positioned to drive the sport, drive the demographics in the sport. And I was really pleased because every athlete needs to have reliable people that represent them and look after their interests and put them first in the hierarchy. And I think he does that well.

I think the guys do it well and I. And I think he does that well. I think the guys do it well. And I'm very proud that they decided this pathway. When you, like I just mentioned, you wore so many different hats in your career, so I'm just wearing a hat right now. You know, you talk about intangibles and things that aren't, that you can't get away from. So what were some of yours that you were able to pass

on to him, whether it was being executive in the national hockey league or being an agent or even being a player, some of your core values. And then some of those, you ended up passing those to him. Yeah, well, I think, you know, one of the things we did when we ran the Canucks was whenever we had a really difficult decision to make about a player or a person in the company,

we would always ask ourselves if we were doing the right thing based on person first and then their role. And even though you have to make difficult decisions, you can do them with empathy, you can do them with consideration based on the circumstances and ensure that everyone feels like they're being treated fairly and honestly. And I think that's one of the reasons we were successful in building a really cohesive group of people all dedicated, all aligned. And they knew they were going to be treated that way. So that's what I think they're doing really well is they are treating people fairly. They're treating their athletes as the most important part of the team. think they're doing really well is they are treating people fairly.

They're treating their athletes as the most important thing and they're driving their revenues. Like women's sports are a little bit different in terms of compensation levels. And when you look at someone like Saroya, for example, and the endorsements they've been managing to get for her and others, it's vitally important to their livelihood that they

exploit other revenue streams. So that's, um, you only do that with really good people and really good athletes. Spencer, when you hear that and be able to kind of listen to what you have and what you have going on, like in all reality, we're just scratching the surface of women's hockey and women's sport in general.

I really do believe that. Is that something that you kind of believe in your kind of talking to your athletes and the people that you represent about, about just the future and what can happen, not currently what is happening? Yeah, it's a big part of it and trying to anticipate what that future looks like as much as possible. We're trying to make everybody ride the wave here and I think the players are doing a great job of embracing the fact that they need to put themselves

out there a little bit more compared to what's traditionally seen with hockey players. And so everything's gaining a ton of positive momentum right now and I think the players are the first to recognize that. They've all lived through the past five years, whether they were in college or playing in the PHF and now transitioning to this new league. They understand that there's only six teams, opportunities limited, so they've got to take advantage of things while they're in it and while they can. And we think we're doing the best job of giving them the opportunities to do that. Mike, you were known as a very forward thinker and things that you did people really weren't

doing back then when you were running hockey, like sleep doctors and things like that. I kind of want to change the direction of it and go towards sports psychology and mental health and that's kind of why I do this and we were able to sit and talk about it. But firstly, how much do you think mental health has now taken a big part and big leap in the National Hockey League and how much more room is there to grow? Well, I disagree with you. I think we're only scratching the surface on mental health issues, particularly in the world of social media and pressures that weren't around 15 years ago you know, pressures that weren't around 15 years ago

that have been growing exponentially. And so the pressure on people that are elite level performers that are in the public domain is even that much more enhanced. And I don't think that a lot of the programs are really progressive in addressing how social media is disaffecting athletes and people. And we went through a really troubling situation with Rick Rippon, who we all really liked and admired and was a great teammate.

And in hindsight, I wish we had some tools that are available today, but still you need to get in there and be part of the solution in the most profound way you can be. And sometimes that's hard to figure out, but I do think there's a lot of room left to understand the issues and address them appropriately. Spence, you said when you guys found out, Mike, you mentioned Rick Rippon, you were kind of way as a family. Like when you get that news, you have to first think about, like you mentioned, everyone else that you're representing and people that you have to talk to. So what is, what immediately kind of is your first reaction there of people you have to tell and how you

have to handle news like that? Well, that was, it was so difficult that we had actually anticipated that that might be the result. And even though I was really dismayed to get that news, I wasn't completely surprised. And so, you know, we had a number of interactions with the NHL around Rick's situation, particularly when he got suspended one time. And I told them then that we were very concerned about his mental wellbeing and what the consequences might be.

And you know, there are times in life where you just wish, you know, you understood it better to be able to address it better. And that was one of them for me. What do you think you learned from that situation? I learned that there's no easy answers and that, that everyone is different and everyone, things that affect them that don't affect you are, are incredibly difficult to appreciate because you're not in their circumstances and you're not living their life.

And, uh, I think the biggest thing is you just have to be really empathetic and, and understanding and trying to understand the situation they find themselves in and give them the best opportunity to work their way out of it. Um, with complete support. That's I think the biggest lesson I learned. Spencer, we're now in the age of social media,

you know, like Mike just mentioned and, and things like that and how one person can, you know, sit behind a keyboard and anonymous can say whatever they want to whoever they want. And there's absolutely no repercussions as an agent now and representing, know 25 women in the PWHL what what do you have to take into consideration when talking and when dealing with players? I think listening is the biggest thing and understanding like he said you know that we all have different perspectives on things we have different

experiences and things affect us all differently so being an ear and listening to the players, I think, is extremely important. And then trying to provide as much support as I possibly can. A lot of, in my opinion, being a good hockey player or being good at really anything is being confident in yourself. And we tried to direct a lot of attention towards how do we make players as confident as they possibly can be. A lot of that is being introspective and for them it's doing the things on a regular basis routinely that help your mental health and help your attitude and help your confidence

and could be as small as, you know, going for a walk or eating good food or sleeping or especially talking to someone. So I try to be there for them when it comes to having someone to talk to, having someone to listen and then providing them with as many resources as we possibly can to make sure they're feeling the best both on and off the ice. Mike said we're not even scratching the surface or barely scratching the surface. Do you feel like the PWHL has done a better job or has enough resources and plans out there? It's different. They're completely different players compared to the NHL and I think they are more vulnerable and more willing to embrace that side of things. That being said, you have to take the first step yourself if something's not going the

way you want it to, and you have to keep working even when things are going the way you want them to. So reminding them of that and just being there is so important for us. When you were growing up, you obviously had a father that was an executive and an agent. Did that make you want to go into the industry or is this something that after a while you decided that you wanted to do? I think we were on Twitter there for a while. I think we were both pretty adamant that if I wanted to be in the sport, it was important for me to do it myself. Yeah. Um, obviously he's great supporter, um, tremendous advocate for me, but I think

it's, um, you know, important to go out there and prove that you can do it yourself and not just try to live off a name or anything like that. Of course, I loved going to hockey games and hanging out and being in the mix as much as I could. I kind of just sat there and shut up for the most part, but I was incredibly fortunate to be able to follow him around and see how things worked. I think someone who loves hockey just sparked a genuine interest in the business and trying to be involved however I could.

Are you the advice giver or are you more of a sounding board now for Spencer? I think more of a sounding board. I think the approach has to be radically different with female athletes versus male athletes, particularly in the world of hockey. I think Spencer said it well, that you know, male hockey players historically have had to have this persona of toughness and almost indestructibility in order to be successful. And that's one of the reasons I think mental health issues have been not as developed in terms of reaction and approach. The women hockey players are very different in that they're really

embracing this opportunity. So they're I think more open to new ideas and more open to participating in the community in a different way and they require a different approach that I probably can't appreciate enough so if there is a problem or something and Spencer wants a bit of advice, I'm happy to deliver it. But these guys are in a whole new world, one that I'm beginning to appreciate a lot more because I really like it. I think there's incredible opportunity, but it's different and needs to be approached differently. Acast is a production of the U.S. Department of State and the United States Department of State

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Spencer, where... I mean, you always want to say sky's the limit, but how much growth is there and how much growth can we expect with women's hockey? So it's a hard question to answer. I think that as far as off the ice endorsements, appearances, building brands, there's a ton of room to explore and grow there. I think that's probably the greatest opportunity in the sport is showcasing these players' personalities and just, you know, trying to engage audiences on a higher level.

And then when it comes to salary and the PWHL, two seasons from now we're going to really see what the market is. To start the league, they had to do things a little bit differently. And the way the money is divided up, I think there's room for improvement there. Also adding more teams, salary crap growing, all those things can contribute and really advance over the next few years. So I think that there's a ton of room in women's hockey. And I think that, you know, ideally we're

the ones that can kind of set the market both on and off the ice and see how far we can possibly take this. Mike, are you kind of watching this from afar as a fan and kind of seeing the growth and kind of getting excited about the sport in general? Yeah, very much so. I think the women's side of getting excited about the sport in general? Yeah, very much so. I, I, uh, I think the, the women's side of

hockey has a chance to lead internationally in different ways, to approach it differently because you don't have the history. Um, you don't have restraints because of history and because of the way things have been done for a long period of time. So I think if they really embrace a progressive approach to building the game on the women's side, there's huge upside.

And, um, you know, they, I think if they do it the right way, they have a real opportunity to guide the sport in a meaningful way moving forward. And if they do that, I think the athletes are going to reap the benefits. Um, I think salary will, salaries will grow. I think the sport will become, uh, widely accepted and, and the young athletes will want to play hockey as opposed to having other choices. And so I think there's a unique opportunity.

Is an opportunity that, uh, you'd want to get into or you just find watching kind of thinking the vaccine and watching Spencer do his thing? No, we have an idea. I'm involved with a team in Switzerland and we have an idea, I'm not going to say it now, but I think there's real opportunity to have the talent accelerate in a meaningful way in a short period of time.

And when you watch the quality of the games, like the game tonight, one of their clients, Alina Mueller, is just a great player, Swiss player, super smart, does everything well. When you begin to know the names a little bit more and know the personalities, I think people will really embrace it. When you say that, you know, there's opportunity and stuff that you're never really away from the game, but when did you start to focus more on the women's side as opposed to the men's side? When he got involved. Okay.

And you know, our daughter, Kate, played field hockey and she also played ice hockey and could have been a national athlete in either sport and chose field hockey. But she grew up playing with Jaina Hefford and a bunch of girls in the Kingston area that were national team members. And so I was always involved in the female side of it because of her, but not to, you know, there wasn't a professional league around that was meaningful. It was really Olympic and international participation. So it was really disjointed and now it's more consistent. I think the schedule will increase. The game's being played out here on the West coast for the first time.

So yeah, there's, I really like it. Spencer, what's been the most rewarding part so far for you? What, taking this journey from where you began to seeing the growth of where it is now and having the games in Vancouver and all over Canada and being broadcasted as well as at a national level. Just working with the players, honestly. It's so much fun getting to watch games at night and celebrating goals on both teams. I remember I was at Montreal game the other week and had a player score for Boston,

had a player score for Montreal and I'm cheering just as loud. My wife's like, ''Geez, people are going to think you're crazy cheering for both teams and celebrating every goal.'' But being able to see them accomplish things that they didn't think were possible necessarily a couple years ago, whether that's a big endorsement or multiple goals a game and having 19,000 people in the stands, their reactions, that's what makes it for me. And do you, are you finding yourself, you know, you, I saw you mentioned there was,

there's a controversial hit and you kind of put it out there on X as well. And you have those opinions because you want to protect your client and that's kind of it as well as not. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, there's some agency agents in the sport that are very active on Twitter with swords and stuff like that. I don't think that'll ever be me necessarily. But I do like, player gets hit in the head and it's not called or a penalty is called back. I think it's only positive if there's some commentary out there disputing that and that's the great thing about sports, right?

Everyone has an opinion. Mike, how much have you learned from your time away from the game to where it is now? And when you look back, do you look at things that you might have done differently or do you use everything as kind of, as kind of like a stepping stone or a vision board to kind of look forward? Well, no. I mean, if you don't reflect and be honest about mistakes that you made and circumstances you might have handled differently or better, you know, the job of a general manager in the NHL is

extraordinarily difficult. And most people that are fans don't understand or appreciate the complexity of it, the daily grind, you know, the different competing elements that you have to manage from top to bottom. And of course I reflect back and, and there are things that I would have done differently.

There's also opportunities in technology that weren't around when we were doing things and they are really profound. I mean, there's incredible, um, advances being made in physiology and physiology tracking and opportunities there that I think are going to change and advance the sport in a way, not only for the sport, but for the general population. Like when you have an elite level athlete that can define physiology parameters in a different way than people are used to.

It can lead to a lot of learning, I think, and a lot of opportunities. So I wish that stuff was around when we were doing it. It's there now. I'm definitely going to try and implement it somewhere in the future because I believe in it. But most definitely some things I would do differently for sure. We kind of got away from it a little bit, but I want to go back where to something that you said that really caught me was the part about, you know,

Rick and you going to the league and talking to them and about Rick having issues with mental health, but furthering that you said not even scratching the surface. So where do we need to go? Not just maybe at NHL level, but even with the PWHL as well. Well, I think the female players are far more

open to discussing issues as they're arising. Whereas on the male side of the equation, it's almost a sign of weakness if you can't work through things on your own. And that's, I think think the furthest thing from the truth and we need to overcome that stigma. Like as things begin to spin out of control for people, it isn't one day where

it happens, it happens over a timeframe. And I think if we embrace the idea that when you start to feel certain things, you need to find help immediately and it's not a weakness. It's a sign of strength and you won't get there unless you overcome these things. So why don't we do just like you treat training, just like you treat skills, treat mental health

awareness in the same manner. And when you're deficient in something, you go and get help. And that's why I think on the male side of the equation, we are only scratching the surface because guys don't want to go and admit that they have a problem. Um, on, on the female side, I think there's far

more openness around, uh, particular mental health issues and trying to find help or seek out help. And it's not as much of a stigma to go and get help. So hopefully that'll continue. And that's why I say, I think women's hockey has a chance to lead the way in many categories because there isn't this sort of profound history that you have to overcome.

You mentioned leading the way in different types of categories. Spencer, where do you kind of see the game going in different types of categories where Spencer, where do you kind of see the game going in different types of categories where women can kind of lead the charge? I think on the endorsement side in particular, I think building brands, putting yourself out there more. You know, we'll see a lot more not private Instagrams

in the PWHL than you will in the NHL. That's an area where they are leading already. You know, Marie-Philippe Polin, Sarah Nurse, where we represent Sarah Fillier, they're leading the way in those categories in my opinion. I think enhanced collaboration, like he mentioned. All players now, regardless, man or woman, you don't just want to know what you're doing, you want to know why you're doing it and you want to be part of that collaboration. I think that's really a model where the PWHL can thrive and show some advancement in how

the game's played. I'd say those two for sure are areas in which they can lead, but also the community. Like, we see a really diverse population in the PWHL. I think being advocates, being representatives of all those communities is something we're going to see in women's hockey. People are going to be able to latch on to that, and you're going to get an entirely new fan base coming into the sport. Also, you know, it's young girls. Like I have a niece, she's two years old. She takes her skating, like she's going to get a Jersey and she's going to see

the PWHL and she's going to say, you know, I can play for New York or Boston or Minnesota, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, instead of I can just play for Canada. And I think that's just an incredible opportunity for young girls and young boys to see that there's something besides the NHL, there's something besides the Olympics, they can stay in the sport. And that pushes the whole thing forward. How much do you enjoy that when you see it? Because before, way back when we were around, there wasn't really much women's hockey going around at all.

But as you mentioned, you being able to take out, you know, family members and go skating and be able to have that goal or have that dream of, like you just said, not only playing for Canada, US, but playing for an actual team. Uh, it's, it's, um, it's really meaningful because historically you had to play on the national team and there's 24 spots. Yeah.

Um, so, you know, trying to be one of the top 24 players in Canada, you know, you're going to You had to play on the national team and there's 24 spots. Yeah. So, you know, trying to be one of the top 24 players in Canada is a real challenge. And you might find something else that might have a different pathway to that level of success. Now, not only are the games televised, the games are really good hockey. I'm not sure if you've seen many games, but

they're, the quality of play is improving every, almost every week. And, and so I think it's a great, hockey is a great sport. Like it really is for community, for growth, learning, coachability, the dedication it takes to play. And you hate to see, you want to see that

advanced as opposed to not having an opportunity. And now, no, I think there's much greater awareness and greater chance to move on and continue to play at a high level. Yeah. And Irv, I don't want to erase any history or anything like that. Like there were lots of professional women's

hockey leagues out there, but the PWHL has taken it to another level. You know, there was a professional team in Vancouver, there was PHF, so many leagues that have existed in the past, but none that have been able to fill stadiums like the PWHL has or make it as accessible for fans to watch. And I think with that accessibility, with that attention, we're just going to get more people interested in the watch. And I think with that accessibility, with that attention, we're just going to get more people interested in the sport. And like I said, it pushes everything forward.

Final one for me, Mike, what type of agent is Spencer to deal with if you look at it from a professional lechbot? Um, well, he has his priorities correct. He's the client's number one and furthering their interests is the most important thing that you can do. Um, I've encountered lots of agents in the past that didn't approach it that way and, uh, uh, they

didn't generate much respect for me. So it's, it's client first, their interest first and ensuring that you do everything humanly possible to allow them to enjoy this, this interests first, and ensuring that you do everything humanly possible to allow them to enjoy this journey and make the most out of it. You know, careers are short. It doesn't matter what sport you're playing and building relationships, building opportunities

is vitally important. And I think they do a great job at it. And Spencer, the same question the other way way as a professional, at a professional level, what's it like, what would it be like to deal with Mike? Luckily I'm not negotiating against him, that's for sure. But no, he nailed it. I mean, the client always comes first. You always have to operate in what's in their best interests and conversations may be tough.

You may not agree all the time with the person sitting across the table, but ultimately, if you do what's in the best interest of the player, it's always going to work out. Gentlemen, thank you very much both for doing this. Mike, we really look forward to seeing what, you know, you have down the pipeline coming forward. And Spencer, absolutely thrilled for what you're

doing in your success as well. Thanks, Irv. Thank you. That's Irv van Gauffaar and the podcast, Down to Irv. Check out. That's Irv van Guifar and the podcast Down to Irv. Check out his videos on our daily face-off YouTube channel. Thanks for listening. Looking for your perfect place to call home? Lethbridge Land is shaping the future of our city with incredible communities like Crossings,

Riverstone and Watermark. Each neighbourhood is designed with innovation, passion and responsibility to enrich your life today and strengthen Lethbridge for tomorrow. From vibrant urban hubs to serene coolly views, there's a community waiting for you. Discover the lifestyle you've been dreaming of in a Lethbridge Land community. Visit lethbridgeland.ca and take the first step towards your new home today. dreaming of in a Lethbridge land community. Visit lethbridgeland.ca and take the first step towards your new home today. ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

How did the internet go from this? You could actually find what you were looking for right away buying to this. I feel like I'm in hell. Spoiler alert, it was not an accident. I'm Cory Doctorow, host of Who Broke the Internet from CBC's Understood. In this four-part series,

I'm gonna tell you why the internet sucks now, whose fault it is, and my plan to fix it. Find Who Broke the Internet on whatever terrible app you get your podcasts. is.