The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Early NHL Awards Watch ft. Greg Wyshynski & Shayna Goldman

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

It’s a special MvsW edition of The Sheet as Jeff Marek and Greg Wyshynski reunite to take a spin around the NHL’s biggest storylines. The guys dive into the St. Louis Blues’ rough start and the impact of Robert Thomas’ return, then examine the wave of mediocrity in the Eastern Conference and what’s behind the Pittsburgh Penguins’ early-season surge. They also spotlight Kiefer Sherwood’s breakout contract year, debate what’s real with the Anaheim Ducks, and share some early-season surprises from around the league. Later, Shayna Goldman from The Athletic joins the show to dig into her NHL observations so far — from standout performers to Olympic roster projections and everything in between.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and drop your thoughts in the comments for more from The Sheet!#TheSheet #NHL #JeffMarek #GregWyshynski #ShaynaGoldman #Hockey #MvsW #Penguins #Blues #Ducks #KieferSherwood #OlympicsSHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼Bauer: https://www.bauer.com/👍🏼Shark Ninja: https://www.sharkninja.ca/ninja-crispi-4-in-1-portable-glass-air-fryer-cooking-system/FN101CGY.html?utm_source=Better+Collective&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=H2+Air+Fryer&utm_content=EN👍🏼Uber Eats: https://www.ubereats.com/ca👍🏼Prime Video: https://primevideo-row.pxf.io/c/5560083/3303015/20020Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Now, I don't expect you, Greg Wershinsky, RBSPN, I don't expect you to tell me who voted, that would be wrong, or how they voted. But there is one major flaw as we welcome everybody in and welcome to the edition of the sheet, MBSW Tuesday here with Greg Woshensky for this November. The fourth, one major flaw in your latest at ESPN, and I always love the awards rankings. It's always, I know people may say it's low hanging fruit, but you know my line about that. And I just love it. But listen, I have traversed that orchard my entire career. And let me tell you right now, if you are somebody who clicks on the power rankings and you think that awards watch is low hanging fruit, well, let me tell you what, I don't know what to tell you. I've said it to you before.

I've said it to you before. Low-hanging fruit is still nutritious. It's fine. It's these types of things that help get you through a season. The NHL season is long. So if you want to park a few minutes watching or reading about power rankings, go for it. I do the same. You want to follow Greg monthly on Awards Watch, which I have going back to your puck daddy days.

Go for it. I absolutely adore it. But there is. This is one major mistake, which we will get to after this. The blueprint is powered by Fandul. The blueprint is powered by Fandul. That means essentially shush in French. The blueprint is powered by Fandul.

Download the app today and play your game coming up on the program. You just saw him a couple of moments ago if you're watching on YouTube, but we have now covered him over with this. The Blueprint. Greg Wischinski standing by from ESPN and ESPN.com. Shana Goldman, who was once upon a time, an MVSW fan, the OG MVSW, and is now smarter than both of us.

We'll talk about NHL Awards. St. Louis Blues struggles, despite a big win last night by them. Welcome back, Robert Thomas. Penguins cooling off and mediocrity the call of the day, specifically in the Eastern Conference, but I want to start by talking about a flaw. I want to talk about a mistake.

Now, I know that the Seattle Cracken are not the most exciting team to watch. I've talked about acquired tastes before. My favorite acquired taste are the Carolina Hurricanes. They may not be the most fun team to watch. You have to really appreciate what's happening out there and what Rod Brindamore is trying to do specifically with man on man

to really appreciate what's happening with the Carolina Hurricanes. I get that it might not be the most exciting game when Seattle is playing, but there is no doubt that season over season, they are a much improved team. And as people have pointed out to me as well, when you watch the Seattle Cracken watch how few odd man

rushes they surrender yeah it's like next to none it's like zero when I look at your and I read it this morning when you sent it over let me get to the Jack Adams and the initial broadcasters association

as you point out votes on this award your leader right now is Dan Mews the Pittsburgh Pallons who coughed up a fur ball coughed up a fur ball last night against the Maple Leafs timing is everything. Every time we do the awards watch, there's always something that happens like the

night before where I know we're all going to look like a bunch of assholes. And that was the Toronto game last night. But that's fine. He's done a great job otherwise. Looking good early. Ben Kindle snapping in a pair. What a great pick. This is awesome. And then third period. Joel Quendville of the Anaheimdocks and Andre Tourney finalists as well. Is it just me or is like everybody's sleeping on what Lane Lambert's doing with the Seattle Crack and her tops in the Pacific right now? a whole lot of people. It might not be a speed bump team right now when you're flipping around and you're finding games. But I have a hard time, I have a hard time looking around the NHL and seeing what one coach has done. And again, it's always easier when it's a new coach

coming in because the effects can be dramatic because it's like sea change and you're changing a lot here. I get that. But I don't know there's been a coach that's had more of a positive effect on his team so far this season than Lane Lambert with the Seattle Cracken. But nothing. Feathers. Nothing. Feathers, man. Like, no, no votes, nothing like feathers for Lane Lambert.

It's early for the voters, too. Which is why they have Jacob Dobris up for the Vezina, but not even mentioned for the Calder. Because apparently they didn't toggle over to rookie goalies on the stat sheet. Look, personally, and I don't really like the fact that he's coaching in the NHL, as you know, but like I think that Quenville probably has had. the best and most impactful first couple of games for any coach in the NHL that's new to his team. Look at the underlying numbers for the duck and the way that they dramatically improve their puck possession and shot attempt.

And then also their five-on-five scoring is dramatically different year over year. I think Quinnville's kind of turned those around based on what he's done in every other spot he's been in in the NHL. I'm glad you bought up the Cracken, though. This is Advent agents that you didn't even know that this was the case. I was talking to Joey DeCord for a story that's coming out soon on ESPN. And we were talking about what's been different about the Cracken so far this season. And he said that it all began in training camp when everybody showed up with a renewed confidence that the things that they were doing were going to work.

And now I said to him, where does that come from? Because the team has been hot trash for the last couple of seasons and pretty much the same roster. And he said it comes from Lane Lambert. And I said to him, I said, well, you know, the thing about Lane Lambert is that the last time he was a head coach in the NHL didn't really end well. He did okay for the New York Islanders, but by no means was the revelation that many felt he would be when he became a head coach sitting at the right hand of Barry Trots for as long as he did. We all thought this was the guy who would become the man. He took over a team, and it didn't really happen that way. Now, I think part of the Lane Lambert impact in Seattle is that he is at last check, not Dan Bilesma.

And Dan Bilesma was a disaster last season on almost every imaginable front. They didn't respect the guy. I think from a system standpoint, what he was doing was not clicking with what was on the roster. Lane Lambert comes in and as you said solidifies them defensively which obviously I think lends itself well to what they do pretty well

when to chords on the guys which is stop the fuck and it kind of gives everybody the structure they need to feel like the winds in their sales a little bit and they're going to be okay and according to Joey to Cord

much like Jeff Merrick Lane Lambert should be getting a lot more love for that than he's currently well the thing that keep hearing from people in Seattle around Lane Lambert and the team is he's placed a number of challenges in front of them, right?

Like little, okay, we're, you know, we're putting the breadcrumbs here for the team. Like, this is where it's all leading. And they've, they've accepted and embraced every single challenge. And the big thing from that team is details, details, details, details. Tinyest details to the major thing,

details, details, details, is what you keep hearing out of Seattle. so defensively sound they do not surrender odd man rushes again it might not make for the most exciting game it's very low scoring low event i get it but they've locked down the d the goal tending joy to court has been fantastic for the seattle crack and the only fault criticism is and maybe this changes when jared mccann comes back can't score goals yeah they're having real hard time finding the back of the net here they're like that that's it if you're looking for a flaw with Seattle right now

who find themselves on top of the position they're not scoring a lot of course. Pacific. So this brings us back to a conversation that we've had many times

about the Seattle Cracken. Which is that is this what should be happening? So in the sense that they are still a roster that could certainly make the playoffs. I'm not convinced

it's a roster that can win several rounds in the playoffs. I don't think it's a cup contender. If you remember, Merrick, before the season, we talked about the direction of Seattle Cracken and the fact that maybe they've reached a point in their maturation as a franchise where a step back to leap forward

might be the thing to do. Now, if you look at this roster, you have a number of players, be it Jaden Schwartz, be it Jordan Eberley, be it Mason Marchment, that are unrestricted free age, next summer. To me,

if this is a relevant playoff contending team, it just sort of muddies the waters as to what should be the ultimate direction of this franchise under Jason Botterill. Should it be to contend under Lane Lambert with this roster of guys

that are over 30 or pushing 30? Or should it be maximizing the return on a number of veteran players who might potentially walk away, assuming we actually get a free agent in this damn league at this point. I don't even know. We're going to have three guys that are unsigned by next summer. Every team is collecting up as many coins as they can.

That's all it's just acquire, acquire, acquire, just hold. So does it, does it do them any good to be contending at this point? Or should it, should they be taking a leap back for the betterment of the franchise? Because I kind of think of the latter on that for me. You know my criticism of Seattle pretty much since the beginning. And I think I don't know who the hell they are. Well, they don't, but there's a reason for that. Does it not seem like, and maybe this starts to, now under Jason Botterill, maybe this starts to change.

Maybe this starts to change, and the buck really will stop with Jason Bottero and his decisions are his decisions and those are final. This is direction. This is where we're all going. It hasn't worked previously because I've always looked at Seattle and said, this is what, this is what democracy, looks like with a hockey team. Like we all love democracy. It's great. We get to vote and everything. Most of us do love democracy. That's correct. We love democracy. This election day here in the U.S. We are very big fans of democracy. I know. And where you live, I know it's very important right now. It's become a very, very national issue. But does it not seem like the Seattle

Cracken are a team that was put together with way too many people having decision making power? when too many people weigh in on what's going to be good for this team or too many people making decisions well let's let's break that down because i would like to know specifically beyond ron francis in those few first seasons who you mean as far as the decision makers in that franchise that i think i think that that goes all that goes all the way up like whenever you have Whenever you have a situation where there are, we've seen this before. Actually, you know, it's funny, too, because Vancouver was actually accused of this before they got a franchise in 1970. But if you want, if you want, I can go all the way back with that one.

I don't think I have a choice in it. Whose name's on this show anyway? Well, let me tell you about what happened. 1967 expansion. No, it's really simple. The NHL maintained they didn't want to have a bunch of, what did they say? They didn't want to have a bunch of five percenters. Like a whole bunch of people owning the organization, but all only owning 5% of the team.

Really, the real reason Vancouver was kept out is because Montreal and Toronto wanted to keep all the hockey night in Canada money. And that was it. Like, that was the real reason. The smokescreen was we don't want a bunch of 5%ers. Anyhow, I look at teams that have ownership groups that have a lot of investors in them and investors that believe because they've invested that they should. have some decision making when it comes to what this team is going to look like. Now, here's one thing that I will say about the Ottawa senators specifically because there are a number of different investors with the Ottawa senators and people that have strong hockey

backgrounds that found out pretty quickly that your $20 million doesn't buy you a seat at the table. We appreciate it, but it doesn't afford you any decision making power. whatsoever and some some of some of some of cashed out um but i will give that to michael and lauer michael and lauer owns yanoa majority owner has been like look we put this group together to buy it but don't think for a second because you coughed up 20 to 30 million dollars that you're going to decide on what our second pairing right shot defenseman is going to be or who that who is who he's going to be hasn't done that um Seattle to me looks like it's a whole bunch of cooks in the kitchen just because the roster itself doesn't seem to and i think this goal

goes back to your point. Have any real cohesion? No. Like, it does not look like a team that was put together with one direction. Now, I get that it's tough when you're doing an expansion team and, you know, how are you going to figure out what your timeline is or whose timeline are you doing this on when you don't have stars, which is another factor in all this. Like, if you're looking at the Seattle Cracken right now and you say to yourself, okay, we need to figure out whose timeline we're doing this on. Who jumps out at you? Whose timeline are you comfortable doing it on when you don't have anybody really that you look at and say,

we're going to do it on Vince Dunn's timeline, on Shane Wright's timeline, maybe now on Berkeley Caton's timeline. You don't. Yeah. Because there's only one way to get that guy. And it's the way that I'm trying to push them into and they stubbornly want to contend. The problem is you can do that as a. general manager but coaches will not go out there and say yeah you know what we'll start a third string goal 10 we're going to lose a bunch of games we're going to scratch all of our best

players of course not you have to the only way you can tank is the GM has to tank I will I will say to answer your question like theoretically based on where he went in the draft it should be Shane Wright's timeline shouldn't it or map or map or map and ears who went even higher yeah Yeah. No, sure. Okay. I mean, like, but, but I don't think that's where it is. But those timelines are, are more similar than they are different, though. You can still group them together. Here's the thing about Benir's. Like, if we're being on, Benares is a complimentary star.

Like, in a perfect world, Benares is playing behind Nathan McKinnon. Benares is your Nico Hearsier type. Like, that's how I see Maddie Bineers. It's not to slight the guy. I think he's a fantastic player. I also think he's probably about seven years older than he says he is based on how he looked when he was drafted. Hang on, hang on. Hang on. Hang on. If he was Russian, would you believe at the draft that he was really 17 years old? Yeah. Right, right. Because he was in college and he looked like Vyashislav Fatisov. I completely understand. You're completely right. But to me, to me, like, and it's not a slight to Benir's to say that I think he is the guy behind the guy and they don't have the guy is kind of the issue with Seattle.

but here's the thing about like they have a collection of players that all do sort of play a certain way like there's a jaden schwartz uh of it all there's a there's a there's a jared mccann of it all i think everleigh's got that dog in him i think marchman kind of fits that mold too i don't think chandler stevenson really did which made that signing a little strange um so maybe the thing is is that lane lambert on top of being a good motivator on top of having the right temperament on top of maybe being a little ego less a little ego less compared to the previous coach that lasted one season maybe he's the guy that can kind of structure things to accentuate what i would say and correct me if i'm wrong the very north-south nature of the forward group on this team and then also

insulate the defense which by the way they only got one guy that's up next year uh in alexiac everybody else is signed with term on that blue line so they've got what they want there including bringing in Ryan Lingran in the offseason in front of obviously a guy who's played himself into the conversation of being one of the better goalies in this league, enjoyed the court. So maybe Lambert's the guy to kind of finally give them that personality, which is ironic because he has none. He's not a very charismatic individual, Lane Lambert. One thing that I want to, one final point, I want to move off of Seattle here, but one final

point that I want to make about Lane Lambert specifically, we've talked about this before. It's always difficult when you go from the assistant coach to the head coach in the same organization. Players look at you differently. You used to be the nice guy when your assistant coach. Now you're bag skating and scratching me. What gives? You have to adopt a different personality. That's why I think this is, I don't, I'm sort of uncomfortable saying he was awful with the Islanders or it didn't work and it was his fault with the islanders.

That's a tough situation. Is you ever going to turn down the job? No. But this was like, all right, clean break. Had his time in Toronto in between. now he's in as the head coach and that is the only way these players know Lane Lambert

is as their head coach in Seattle and I think that's why it works. I just want to say one quick thing on Lambert again. First of all, I forgot to give the caveat about his time with the Islanders which is that he was coaching under Lou Lamarillo, which is something that none of us have ever experienced

and I'm sure he's a very different situation than coaching under Jason Botterill. The second thing I'll say is that Lane Lambert does fall into the grand tradition of the National Hockey League of guys who do much better on their second chance. You look around this league at almost every coach that thrives. They had to screw up once, then they come back and they do well. There's not a lot of John Cooper's out there that strength gold the first time he puts a shovel on the ground. You usually have to do, you get fired for, you know, off your first job, you come back.

You learn a thing or two. Have an assistant come back and you do well your second time around. And I think that could be Lane Labbert this time. Okay, a couple more awards things here before, and I should mention again, like Shana Goldman coming up at the bottom of the hour. Shane is actually wildly successful, both podcaster and writer with the athletic, but when I think of like OGs that used to listen to MBSW that went on to great things, Alexander Mandricki, just speaking of the Seattle Cracket. Oh, yeah. Like that was seeing her rise to the ranks and get to that spot in Seattle is awesome.

And I'm really happy. It's also a GM in Pittsburgh that I think used to listen to the show now again. He doesn't anymore, I swear. And he actually went into one of our events. And that's when you geeked out over Joe Sorrella. One of my favorite moments ever in the history of my life is watching you fanboy over Joe Sorrella. I just, I can't, I can't fathom that we have a GM in this league that was like a podcast listener. That's just something.

Yeah, it was fun. Good time. okay so a couple more awards things um this one is i think obvious but right now early leader uh out of the gate quick jack ikel for the heart trophy anyone may anyone else making noise here this is the one that was surprising to me not that ickel's leading because 19 points and 11 games will do that for you and he also i was getting back and forth with it on uh twitter this morning about whether or not he's a good defensive player. The metrics will tell you that he's a bit overrated defensively,

but I think he's kind of established this reputation of being a great 200-foot player, which will no doubt help him as well. But there is a guy who earned 19% of the first place votes that plays with the Colorado Avalanche. And it is not Nathan McKinnon. It is Cal McCar. And this to me is the really interesting thing. Like, McCar is obviously like running away with the Norris. There was only one vote that didn't go to McCar.

for first place for the Norris. But he's second right now for the heart. And if you remember all of our debate and conjecture about the Quinn Hughes Heart Canada C recently, you'll remember that we actually haven't had a defenseman as a Hart trophy finalist since... Well, Pronger was the last to win it. He was also the last to be nominated.

We haven't had a defenseman nominated for the heart since 2000 when Chris Pronger won the Hart Trophy for the St. Louis Blues. This is astounding to me for a couple of reasons. The first is that we have been in an era of offensive defensemen that have been in the conversation for like breaking records that Bobby Orr said, be it Eric Carlson during his run with the Ottawa senators, be it Cal McCarr, be it Quinn Hughes. And none of those guys got MVP love. And the other thing that shocks me, Merrick, is when Nick Litt.

Lidstrom was winning a Norris trophy every other season, basically. Yeah. At no point did the voters get together and be like, you know what? That guy seems like he's the reason Detroit's good. And maybe he has value to that. Maybe that's because, you know, Datsuk and Zetterberg were there too at the same time. But I'm kind of surprised Nick Lidstrom didn't get the, he is an extraordinary player beyond simply being a Norris trophy winner love at some point.

Nick Liddstrom got Ken Holland in the Hall of Fame. But he couldn't get a heart trophy. He got a guy in the Hall of Fame. You know how easy your life is when you have someone like Nick Lindstrom on your team? Life is really, really simple. Like he retired and he was still getting Norris votes too. It's not like this guy was washed and it was like, okay, Nikki, this is getting a little embarrassing. Maybe it's time to wrap up the career.

He was still getting Norris votes. Here's another one for you, which was pronger's year for the heart trophy? 2000 you said? 2000, yeah, 2000. You know who the last defenseman before Pronger was to win the heart trophy? To win the heart? Yep. We're going back to 1970.

I mean, was it O'R then? Yes. Wow. Like, this isn't new. Like, this isn't new. Like, voters have in their mind, oh, defensemen have their trophy. This is one of my big problems with the heart. A, how you vote on it.

And B, how it seems to be the exclusive. It's exclusive, albeit every now and then a goaltender pops, hello. It seems to be the exclusive domain of forwards. Just like the Selke is the exclusive domain of centers. And this is just the way that these trophies have evolved. Defensemen don't win the Hart Trophy. Why? Oh, they have their own trophy.

It's the same mentality that keeps goalies out of the Hart Trophy when really, philosophically, a goalie should be able to, a goalie should win the Hart Trophy every year. What is a more important position? I know we've quibbled about that. But like the last two, 2000 pronger. 1970 bob yorth that's it i mean was a goal going to win every game nothing nothing

you need somebody to put the puck in the net uh i don't disagree with you and i also think the player's going to stop shot players going to stop 35 shots a night too someone's got to stop the shots if he's not a john tootorella team i think the issue is that people have always struggled with trying to quantify what good defense means for a team we've gotten a little bit better with it as far as using the metrics that we use to determine to wins the selki every year but i'm

I'm with you, man. Like, it is kind of astonishing that we've had so many superstar defensemen, in some cases, the best player on their teams when it came to Lidsstrom and Carlson in some of those years that never got a sniff of the heart trophy. I think the worm is turning. I mean, keep this in mind, by the way, as well. It's hard to win the heart when you have somebody on your team that has won it before and gets nominated almost every season.

But McKinnon finished fourth last year. And McCar finished sixth for the heart. So there's enough room at the table for both of them. It's just going to be hard to look at McCar and ultimately probably be like, that's the guy who drives the team when we know how good McKinnon is. So there was a, I want to take this to Mark Schifley somehow, but there was a Reddit thread on Reddit hockey this morning that I was reading about like the surprising stats of the year so far.

So I'm like, okay, Greg's coming. So some of the things that were on there. I'll be at three games. Jonathan Quick has a 9.41 save percentage. He turns 40. He turns 40 in January. He's got a 941. Jacob Truba, 11 games in.

Zero pimms. Zero penalty minutes for Jacob. I was wondering if that's where we were going to end up. Jacob Trubba. 11 games in. He hasn't decapitated anybody. Okay. Shots.

Okay. Number one, tied. Nathan McKinnon, Austin Matthews, 55. um tage thompson 54 in third place with 52 cutter goche wow it's early right so they all these different things um

shots from a defenseman in the NHL right now number one Zach Werenski 42 okay I can see that Evan Bouchard Edmonton Oilers

38 okay yeah I can I can see that this all makes sense number three with 36 Matthew Schaefer. Yeah, I was going to say, I knew Schaefer was up there. I thought he was going to be the answer to one of your other questions. But yeah, Schaefer's shots are insane right now.

I mean, he is playing a sizable amount of minutes every night for the Islanders. By the way, he got 80% of the first place votes for the Calder from the voters that we paneled for awards watch. I thought, yeah. I thought it would have been higher. Devadoff is the only other guy that got first place votes for the Calder. Here's why I would go Schaefer. it's a much more difficult position to play as a rookie than forward. Positionally, that is a, especially what he plays.

Like first parody, he's getting like first assignment. Logan Stanley, 12 games played, two goals for us, six points for Logan Stanley. Wow. He's going to, like, triple his production so far. The other thing about Schaefer that I think is really going to be in his favor by the end of this thing, if things keep going the way they're going, is it is it is like he was an injection of happy juice into a moribund franchise you know you know you the narrative of of schaefer coming in and and turning the islanders from a

more about you know moribund collection of forwards that are probably past their expiration date to now being the team of the happy puppy on long island i think is yeah yeah it's all about vibes um i'll give you a number that i'm obsessed with right now what nine 12 nine 12 nine 12 is the save percentage as a team for the Columbus Blue Jackets. Oh, yeah. There's only one team that has a better team save percentage than Columbus, and that is the team on which Connor Hellebuck plays. I never in a million years saw this coming.

I thought maybe Jet Reeves is a 908, but I certainly didn't think we'd see the return of Elvis Merleck. So it's like he's he's in the big white suit in Vegas. It's the return of Elvis. He's singing in the ghetto for all the kids. I'm astounded by them being as good as they are goaltending wise. I don't know if it'll keep, but if it does, they're probably a playoff team. I can't believe you miss the obvious joke.

He's a hunker, hunker burning glove. You know what? I did not see that as the obvious joke. And I'm glad that you made it. Thank you. That's the new nickname. Hunkah, Hunkah Burning Glove. The new Shikudomi cucumber.

Oh, let me be your tendi bear. That's not bad. We'll workshop a few of these. Yeah. Yeah. Mers Likin's nicknames. Because we can go like really old school styley with, you know, the Pembrokech and the Shikidmy cucumber and these types of old.

Guys, these are brutal. No, these are great. You shut up, Zach. How dare you talk? You don't even know who the hell are you. Where is this? I had to pitch in. They're brutal.

With a fake beer. These are great. he doesn't even know Elvis exactly where were we Greg oh by the way on Mars Likins with this safe percentage he's rocking

and this renewed great play do you only think it's a matter of time before if Jack Reeves keeps doing this up until Christmas that man and same as Murs Likens it makes it just like so much easier for them to trade him to Edmonton yeah why not right

I mean it's true it's funny you said that because that is the sort of undercurrent to all to the to the Mirz Likin's comeback, which is that they've been trying to find a way to entice someone to take him. Correct. And every time there is someone who's like, looking at that same percentage would be like,

nope, we're good. Calvin Pickford, come on down. You're right, though. This could be the thing that finally allows them to move him, which is ironic because he's also giving them great goaltending right now. He is. And let me just check what we have here on ZO program. Oh, I know what I got to do here before we get to Shane.

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and the Athletic. She joins us here, former MVSW listener now making her debut, Blue Hair and All on her former favorite podcast, MVSW. How are you, Shana? Oh, my God. I'm amazing. What an intro, first of all. Second of all, yes.

What is it like longtime listener, first time, joiner? Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. Now first time, you know, celebrity on the program. Well, we're talking about Alexandra Mandra. before you came on saying like, because she used to listen all the time back in the, the OG days, and now she's superstar with the Seattle, Seattle Cracken, and Greg and I are still doing the same thing. And here you are who like catapulted yourself into like the different

stratosphere in hockey media. And Greg and I are here doing the same thing. So congratulations on like lending us your ear for a couple of years and then going on to do your own thing, which is much better than what Greg and I do because Greg and I are just still here. Yeah, just still here. Still viving. Everyone's still listening. We're still tuning in. All of us idiots, honestly, every week. Like, we can't get enough. Give it to us twice a week. But sure, yes, put yourselves down. It's me. I've peaked and you guys have set the bar so high. So it's an honor. I think what Merrick's trying to say is that all the smart listeners went on to great things. He and I keep on making dick jokes on the internet until they don't, until they noticed. I like those jokes. We all love those jokes, okay? Anyone who acts like they're too good for them, Ken, just fuck off. There we go.

Yeah. All right. There's a New Yorker I'm looking for it. There we go. We got the way. Who just opened the salt and vinegar chips? All right. There we go.

Shannon Goldman is on the program. Let's get rock. Well, really quickly, and I want to get to some, Greg's got a great piece at ESPN.com about the awards a month in. And I want to get there. But we were talking about Seattle a couple of seconds ago. And I'm curious, like, when you watch Seattle,

A, what are you watching for? And B, what are you seeing right now with Lane Lambert? team. I mean, listen, they're overperforming a bit, but I think it's interesting to see an exciting because I feel like when you get a new coach, you can go one of two ways. You could just eat shit. And it's like, no, no, no, but the process is coming along. Just be patient. It's all going to work out. They're barely practicing this. They're only doing five on five. Don't look at the special teams. It will get there. And you have to be really patient. I feel like that's the approach we've had to have with Seattle since day one. So the fact that that

isn't what's happening right now. It's like, look, they're exciting. They're disrupting things. they are winning games. It sets the tone differently. It's good. It's better vibes. So they're getting contributions up and down the lineup and the goaltending has been fine. I think it's really encouraging for Lane Lambert, too, because his last go was awful on Long Island. So it's a good chance for him to say, hey, I'm not just an elite assistant coach, but look, things are happening here. So I'm excited about that. Greg, let's stay in the Pacific. I feel a level of panic from our friends in Edmonton about this incarnation of the Oilers. Do you think the blooms off the rows with this group or do you think that they've got what it takes to make a third run for the

cup? I'm so bored of this team. I'm so over that. It's the same shit, different day. The goaltending, it's mid. But it's okay if they can outscore their problems. Okay, here's a new cast of supporting wingers and oops, they all suck. So it just, it gets so old so quickly. But I think they're starting to come along and we all knew they would, right? Like, Jack Rostovic, look at him. He's scoring goals and great, wonderful. Zach Heimann will be back soon. I'm not worried about them yet.

Yeah, Mangyapani and Trent Frederick, those contracts. Yes, that's something else. So I think they'll be fine. They always are. They're in a very weak division that's going to benefit them for sure. But I think it's honestly better for them to be bad now and then work their shit out instead of come to a crashing halt when it matters most. That I agree with.

And that's what we've seen for the last couple years in the team. The other team that I think, if I'm, the Oilers, I'm watching really closely now, contract be damned. But the other team that I'm really looking at are the Nashville Predators. And I know you see Saros' contract is massive, but if the Nashville Predators fall out of this even more and they have to make the decision that, you know what, it's not going to happen. And we need to tear this thing down. You go to Saros and say, like, look, we're rebuilding this thing. I think you can ask players to sit through one rebuild.

You can't ask them to sit through two. And that's why I wonder. And I don't know if Edmonton has even talked about it. I'm sure there's been internal discussions about every netminder in the NHL. I would wonder about Saros with the Oilers. That's going to be on headlines everywhere. I can't wait. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I mentioned, dude, I mentioned, I mentioned last week that I would wonder about Stephen Samcoast and if he would be a fit in Nashville. And it's like, Merrick says, Montreal interested in Stamcoast.

You can't win. That's what happens. That's what happens. You guys, your names are so high up there that if you say it, people manifested into existence. But like, listen,

I think Saras has actually been good this year, and I think that's the biggest takeaway from Nashville because whatever is going on there is not getting fixed anytime soon. I think there's problems at every single level. Ferry Trots has let us all down. I can't believe it. Andrew Burnett is struggling.

Again, as a head coach, who knew? But the Saros situation, I think, the one, like, their little grain of rights of like, okay, this is, this is your bit of good news because he had two really bad seasons. And I think for an undersized goalie, especially, we could all be a little extra concern. Like, oh, no, he's, you know, getting to the wrong stages of his career. And he's small. So it's going to be that much harder for him to be good. But at least he looks solid. So yes, it gives them options. But, you know, they have three core players. I think you'll see, it's going to be a different conversation at this point of his

career. But it's Forsberg and Saras. If you're having the conversation about one, I think you have to have it about both. UC Soros is one of those guys who, when I saw him with his gear off, and he looked like a kid from my high school soccer team, I'm just like, wow, you know, he never realized that sometimes with these goalies until you see them with the gear off, that it's just like, not all these guys are built like, you know, Connor Hellebuck. By the way, I want to give Ryan O'Reilly a shout out for a specific reason. I was looking through photos on Getty images last night because I was.

hoping that there'd be one of all of the Dallas stars meeting Kyler Murray last night. But there was, no one was there to snap this historic photo of the time Tyler Sagan met Kyleor Murray. But I did see a photo of Ryan O'Reilly entering the arena last night, wearing a comfy cabinware sweater. And I was reminded, oh, yeah, these guys don't have a dress code anymore. Because most of the guys that I see walking into the arena are still wearing fucking suits like they're still suiting up they spent all this money on the ties and the suits that

they still want to wear them and i looked at ryan o'reilly and i said to myself that's a man that we didn't think about when it came to the dress coat we thought about austin matthews we thought about a lot of these guys be able to wear whatever they want to wear we didn't think about the comfort of an elderly center with big bushy beard and how all he wants to do is show up to the rink in a nice sweater it feel cozy and i and i shout out to ryan o'reilly for for using these new rules to your benefits, Sarah. Look, if the Players Association said, now we're not going to fight over the $4 billion

on the table, perhaps, in expansion money, we want comfy clothes, and sometimes we don't want to wear socks. Fair trade-off to me, Greg. We just didn't think about the over-34 guys, though. We all thought about the young guys and what crazy fashions they'll wear.

Who's going to dress like peeky blinders? But we didn't think about how many old guys there are in this league. They're just like, I've got a labellation. sweater and I just want to wear it and I just want to feel good. Who's coming in? I get pounded for 60 minutes. Oh, man.

Who's coming in like Housecoat Lobowski style with the white Russian? Who's coming in with that, man? I would say Brent Burns, but that's not really his aesthetic. It's not like he's going to play paintball. Yeah, with this ginormous backpack, a million accessories. But wait, wait, wait, I need to pause on something. Is 34 an hour cutoff for like you're an old guy, you're a young guy? Uh-oh.

Uh-oh. It's an HL. It's an HL. Okay. I like this. I like this. I just wanted to know all of a sudden. I'm like, wait a second.

I feel like everyone's always made it like, you're on the wrong side of 30, but now we're not going there. So I just agree. If I tell you that an NHL player is 25, you'd probably still say he's young. I would tell you that an NHL player is 32. You'd probably say he's in his prime. If I say an NHL player is going UFA at 34, you're like, hmm, I don't know. They seem like they're ready for the kill floor. I feel like I'm a big asshole than you then because I'm saying 32, you're over the hill.

which I'm, you know, cringing at the thought of that. I feel like it's like, oh, you're on the wrong side of 30. It's been like the bar for me because I think of prime of like 25, 26, you know, even 24-year-olds in there. But I love this, 34, the new normal. Okay, let's get the number right now. What is the number where you officially start to get old? I've always felt in this NHL right now, it's 27. And players looking at signing long-term contracts at 27, you're like, I can see it for a couple of years.

but where are you guys at on the number 27? That's the one that always felt like, okay, that's the beginning of, God, I can't remember what 27 was, but like beginning of the end, Shana. I think you go younger than me on this, but I think 31. I think if you get a 31 year old that's coming off a good season, I'm pretty confident that they're still going to be able to have a good season. If they're 32 coming off a good season, I'm like, all right, but maybe now it's going to be maybe like 12 points less and maybe they miss a few games like 31 to me is like the cutoff

for for younger old in this league what do you say shana okay i'm going to adjust it i think we're recalibrating it because the maximum contracts we're not going to have eight year deals anymore it's going to be six year deals so it's a huge difference of saying this 30 year old 31 year old guy signed an eight year contract that takes from age 39 the other thing is um dom everyone knows dom of the athletic i'm not even going to put yours last name today i'm not yeah so he took another look at aging curves and tweak things too to show like their peaks player peaks are a little bit later than we thought of 25 26 versus 23 24 and I think usage has a lot to do with the two because it's tough to say hey this guy's out is prime at 23 years old and their coach

doesn't trust them play more than third line minutes so I think with all of that in mind I'm going to say I'm going to say 31 I'm going to copy you I was going to say 30 but you know what I'm going to go 31 because I think of 31 yeah you signed five-year deal at 31 I'm not like oh my god that's the worst thing in the world i'm like okay sick got it right sure go off enjoy why isn't there more corey peri-esque players in this league where they're obviously extremely over the hill they can no longer do anything close to what they used to do in their prime but they've morphed and shaped themselves into something different i was kind of feel like superstars uh uh burn out before they fade away in this league uh and the corey perries are are the anomaly

where they kind of modulate their game. Eisenman was like this in kind of a different way with Detroit, too, when after the injuries and after the productiveness went down a little bit. I feel like we don't have a lot of star players that kind of decide to swallow their pride and become the Corey Perry type late in their career. Yeah, because a lot of guys don't want those one-year deals, right? We see it so often. I mean, look at all the older guys taking those five, six-year deals that they're never going

to play out. Now it's a little bit different. Like, guys like Perry doing it going, okay, I need to reinvent my game because I'm not what I was. And not everybody is ready to have that conversation. I understand it, right? It's tough to say, hey, the league's getting younger around you and you're only getting older and your role is going to change.

You're not going to get the same minutes. You're not going to get the same money if you're a bottom six player versus the top six guy. But you can either stay in the top six and fail and then be sent to the third line, or you can change your game to adjust for what you are at this point in your career. So I like the idea of these, you know, one year contracts, two contracts. Brent Burns contract too, right? He goes to Colorado. He's in a different role than he was the last couple of years.

It's a good thing for him because it's going to, extend his career. Obviously, you don't have that same luxury of saying, okay, well, I'll have the money in a year or two years, right? But at this point in your career, if you're a guy that's a burns or a pair, you made your money at this point. You don't need to be playing for that. It's tough for me, you know, I get their millionaires, so we're all going to roll our eyes anyway, but like, and we can't say, oh, they're finance. They're fine. They can afford that. But you know what I mean? Like, I feel like it just adds a different element to their game and to their, who they are at this point, if they can accept that and evolve. Even millionaires have concerns. That third house isn't

going to build its own bowling alley. I mean, like, I got to keep playing. That new doc isn't going to build itself at the cottage on Lake Rosso. Like, come on, Chana, got to chase pox, got to chase pox. Before he came on, we're talking about and Greg's piece at ESPN.com with the trophy watch. Jack Eichel, hard trophy, early candidate. Your thoughts? Yes. You know I love award stuff. So I did read this this morning. I'm very excited about it. Yes, I would put Eichel up there. Yes, I would put Cal McCarr up there. I want to add one name to the conversation and obviously this team would have to make the playoffs and they haven't done it how about Dylan larkin no way last year my fifth spot was nick suzuki because i'm like

that is a canadian's MVP and listen i'll have that conversation again but i think it's you know so many guys doing the thing there that it's not just him but larkin i don't think he's a number one heart guy right now obviously but i think he's someone we should keep an eye on because if you're the most valuable to your team and you i don't know track their asses to the playoffs that counts for something You know what's good? We're all about honesty here. We're all about honesty here. And I think it's time for you to be honest,

because America and I have already been honest about this. You had never heard of Emmett Finney before like a week ago. Couple weeks, couple weeks now, because I did look at him for fantasy. He was someone that like I saw like the forward eligibility. And I, you know, I go through every lineup. And I'm like, okay, who's on the top line right now? Okay, you're playing with Raymond and Larkin. Great, you're on my radar now.

I need to see if you're any good, I can write about you. So he was on my radar for that reason. And oh, my God, I'm so glad I, you know, we're in Nevada. It was smart. It was smart. I mean, he and I, America and I were looking at the, at the scores. You were like, okay, Raymond's playing with Larkin and playing with, it looks like a misprint.

It looks like the words have gotten tumbled here and it created a name that is unfamiliar to anyone. So I'm happy, I'm happy you were honest with us about that. First of all, part of why I think has become a popular topic. One, he's played great. And yes, I do remember them from the Western Hockey League in Camloops. Dude, well, come on. Dude, we've talked about this.

How long was I single because of stuff like this? Oh, I'll tell you everything you want to know about Emmett Finney. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But no, but part of the phenomenon, just bluntly is his name. It's cool to say. Like if his name was like Clay Washington, something else. Like, you know, pick up Connor Blank. whatever. Conner's a new Canadian hockey name.

Conner's something or other. Would it be as fun? Would it be as fun as story if his name wasn't Emmett Finney? He played great. It's awesome. Seventh round pick, hanging on the first line. And he's got a cool ass name to say. I think that matters. It totally matters. I mean, listen, like some guys are good with foreign names. Like a Will Smith. His personality is so great. I don't give a shit what his name is. Right. It's everything. You watch him on the ice. And he like speaks a lot of that but if his name was i don't know breed in west it's like all right bet go back to and he's not even the best will smith athlete in the in the state right now based on the

dodgers catcher uh you uh you're go back on your on your larkin thing i think you're right i i he's been an incredible play driver for for a team that's for a little bit out kicked its coverage um and uh and it'd be fun to see him it'd be fun to see him get his flowers because honestly i don't think there was a moment recently and maybe this was before four where there was this thought of, like, maybe he's not a top line scent? Like, maybe he's not the guy. We're just talking about that with Baneers before you hopped on, too. And I feel like Larkin has had a real statement in the last maybe like year and a half

of actually, I am the guy. And look for the things I can do in both ends of the ice. Yeah. Yeah, it's a different opinion of what the guy is, right? Because not everybody's guy is going to be Connor McDavid. it and that's okay, right? Like, if Dylan Larkin's your guy, then the cast around him has to be that much better to account for the fact that he doesn't have that same skill set and sealing as the others. But he does a little bit of everything. And like this year, we don't think about

Dylan Larkin for what he does short-handed. We think about the Red Wings having a god-awful penalty kill, right? Like last year, it was historically bad. This year, the big difference is they're just throwing him out for every face-off, right? The penalty kill starts. He's first over the boards. He's taking the face-off. And sometimes he's taking a five-second shift or a 10-second shift. He wins the draw, he might kick it back someone, he might help him clear, and he's off the ice. And it's made a world of difference. Should they do that forever? No, they need to get maybe some more skills coaches to work with the rest of their centers. So guys like Comfer and Cop and Casper can pick up the slack because the difference between Larkin and the rest of the team is ridiculous

right now. But you just see he's someone that will do everything. And it goes down to all of those little details, plus the vibes and leadership of it all. So yeah, love for him. So then, sticking with Detroit, because this is a really interesting night, so 10 games tonight around the NHL, the Oilers and the Stars, always a banger, love it. Lightning and the Avalanche, now the Tampa Bay Lightning have turned things around. That one should be a banger too. But is the biggest game tonight, Detroit, Vegas? No.

No. No, but here's why. Here's why. Here's why. The Detroit Red Wings all of a sudden find themselves top of the table. Okay, here we go. Look at this. And now, here you are with the Vegas Golden Knights who are like legitimate Stanley Cup contenders.

Is this the game? Because I don't know what Tampa is going to learn about themselves if they beat Colorado. I don't know what Dallas is going to learn about themselves if they beat the Oilers or the Oilers are going to learn about themselves they beat Dallas. But if Detroit can beat Vegas tonight, all of a sudden, does that snap everyone's attention to the Detroit Red Wing just beat a team that could win the Stanley Cup. That's why I say, is this one the biggest game

of the night? Yes and no. Okay, I will give you this that it's a big deal. Let's go to the yes part. Let's just stick with the yes part. Stick with the yes part. I mean, I just think people are going to poke holes in it too because of the goaltending situation there.

And then I'm like, well, they're without this player. They're without, like, and I get that. I think that we should be taking the Red Wing seriously regardless of what happens tonight. I do think, though, there's stuff to learn from the other games. Like, I want to see what happens with Tampa Bay. power play which has been god awful and i want to see what happens with the abs who their power play was low-key bad before they played the devils and lit them up with what four power play goals in seven

attempts or six a time like that yeah that that sorry best and then with the stars too i look at i go well their five-on-five offense is terrible and for the last couple years they're getting out in the playoffs because their five-on-five offense dries up against the oilers and the power play isn't clicking too so i think that there are things to learn but if i had to go through my watchability rankings is that number three for me absolutely like i'm excited for it i love watching the red wings i'll watch any game they play i think you're conflating colorado and vegas merrick like to me colorado is the measuring stick right now in this league i don't think if you beat vegas you're like we're all right let's let's scale ever here's ready for it like i mean it's why i say Vegas is really good but they're

not that good here's why here's why i say Vegas first of all i think they're a cup contender um sure There's like a dozen teams that are cup contenders. But there might be the best team in the Western Conference. But here's the other thing that I like about it. It's not the best team in the Western Conference. Hold on. Hold on. But they're goaltending. When you think about, okay, think about matchups.

Think about matchups around the NHL. I don't know that I've seen a team have better games with every other team than the Vegas Golden Knights. That team drags the best game out of everybody in the United States. the NHL. Personally, the last six years, the best regular season matchup as far as like quality of game, like real exciting, is Minnesota and Vegas.

Those two teams, the way that they play, those games, I know you look at it, Minnesota, Vegas, but those two games, those two teams, they make great games. And I want to see now that the Detroit Red Wings are not a bottom feeding team, I want to see how good they are against a team

that drags great games out of everybody. Out of everybody in the I think that's fair, because I think with the thing about Vegas, that's great and makes them a really watchable team is that there are no nights off against Vegas. They are a pounding, grinding, annoying, spiteful team to play against. And that does tend to bring out good hockey from the opponent. I just think your idea that, like, you know, beating, like, they're like the Ohio State football team of the Western Conference is a little bit, is a little bit.

It was a little bit overstated. Oh, you don't like that? Like, no. I don't, I don't. Colorado's right there. Colorado is right there. Colorado's right there. Yeah, did Shea Theodore become Calamacar overnight?

I don't, I don't know. I think he did. So I'll still go with Colorado in that one. For sure. That's right, though. It's a very fun game to watch. When the one, the one team, and they didn't have to go through them to win their Stanley Cup, the one team that Colorado still has to slay along the way.

much like when the Washington Capitals won their Stanley Cup, they had to beat the Pittsburgh Penguins. Colorado has still not beaten Vegas. And they had them up to Cobb once. You fell apart. You spent 18 minutes before extolling the virtues of the Seattle Crack and they're not the team that Colorado has to get past. I mean, that's the antidote right now for Colorado on the Western Conference based on recent history, isn't it? All right.

Um, what do we, what do we make? We got a couple of minutes here, Shannon. What do we make of what we saw? I want, I got to, I guess, so we bought up the devil's penalty kill misery. And by the way, not the best Western Conference Road swing. I've ever seen the devils make. Let's bring up the rangerous misery. Alexei Lafrenier, one goal in 13 games.

I've been engaging with a bunch of fans that are wondering if this is caco, copococo, 2.0 underlying numbers that are impressive, but like complete lack of production from a former first overall pick. What say you about LaFranier these days, Shana? Okay. I am higher on him than I was Caco. I think that there were some differences there. I also think this team is just very, very bad at developing talent. And it goes further than this. You know, I think someone like Adam Fox was always going to become out of Fox, right? It's not like that was a player they drafted. They brought him in because he wanted to play there. And he was always going to become a superstar player. Did they help get the best version out of I'm sure, but did they make him who he is?

No. I think with Lafranier and with Kako, I feel like they just crushed every little ounce of, you know, skill ability and everything in those early years. And you're seeing the repercussions now. But I don't, I'm not completely and totally concerned yet because it's a team-wide thing, right? And I think it's one of those things that's like, okay, the chances are there. And when, you know, you get the right bounces, things are going to click. And I think they're figuring out different combinations for him because the team's a lot weaker with Evans and Trochuk. And I think that also they haven't exactly mix and match skill that sometimes it feels the

combinations are a little bit too redundant the way that they're setting things up. But I think you're seeing flashes and glimpses of going like, okay, a good player is still here. Does he have the ceiling that he had when he was drafted? Absolutely not. But could he still be a good top six player? Yes, I'm not going to say, oh, this guy is going to put up X number of points. Like, I'm sorry.

I just, I can't because I don't even think he's going to be on PowerPlay 1 when Vincent Shortchuk comes back to the lineup, right? So I think that's going to limit what he can do. But I think he's better than the start of this season showed. I think he's better than last season. But I think you're going to have to have those hard conversations at a certain point. And it's bigger than just one player. It's going to be organizationally.

Like, are you putting your high-end players in a position to succeed? Because if you did, maybe we'd be looking at them going, this is the start of a really long window versus, oh, are they going to fizzle out again this year and just disappoint? So let me ask you. And before we get one more question about the New York Rangers before we get there. This is a team that's being led right now. now by Taylor Radish and Sam Carrick. That is, that, certainly up front, that those two players are leading the charge for

the New York Rangers. There's a lot of MIAs here. I'll ask you the same question that I asked Greg last week. Did the Pittsburgh Penguins win the coach trade? Sullivan, Fremuse. No, I think each team got the right coach for where they're at. I think someone like Dan Mews taking over the Rangers in the position they were in, I don't think they'd have those same results, honestly.

I think Demi was going to a team that they were no expectations. And also you have like a Sydney Crosby to lead the way and have that trickle down effect on everybody. Right. I think that is a really good thing. I think that he has more leeway to be creative and to take a different approach than he would have had in New York. I think Mike Sullivan still makes sense for the Rangers. I think the defense looks better. I think they've been a lot better at cycling the pop.

And I think seeing the bottom six produced or even just like the fourth line, if you want to call it that. Like that's different from years past too because it's always been such. a top heavy team. So I'm not upset in either direction for either team. I think it makes sense for both of them in this case. But I like that Pittsburgh went out of the box with the damn he's hire because he's someone, I feel like we've all heard a lot of great things about he's so smart, he's so creative. And, you know, then he gets hired and then you hear the other comments of like, well, does he have what it takes to be a head coach? And to me, that is, are you a big enough dick to be a head coach? Are you a big enough asshole? And the answer is, maybe you don't

have to be. Maybe you can approach it differently or maybe you stop judging someone because he's you know, maybe nerdyer that he doesn't have what it takes to be that guy. You ever thought on that one, Greg? No, I, listen, I think that that's completely right that the people doing the hiring in this league are the 200 hockey men. And a lot of times if the person they're hiring doesn't fit the template personality-wise or temperance-wise, they can be overlooked. They can be someone that doesn't get these same opportunities.

that someone who's going to be a bit more, I'm going to yell at you and blow the whistle and be mean gets. I think about John Cooper a lot when it comes to the coaching template, and I think to myself, how he would fit the template stripped of all of his success in 2025. I tend to believe that he would still be getting an opportunity in this league, but he was sort of, you know, a different kind of cat too when he came up. And, you know, it's weird to me that a guy like that can have that level of success and then not have a bunch of copycat hires in his wake.

But it didn't work out that way. I mean, we're still basically a retread league for lack of a better term. I think we can either go retread or second chance depending on how you feel about the same guys getting hired over and over again. Fourth, chance, fifth chance con. Retread, I think fits. I think lobby lets a retread. I don't know if I don't know if I go Lane Lambert's a retread. yet. I think he's a second chance. Maybe after you get past your second chance, then you're a retread.

Maybe we can go there. Although, I don't know. Like, if Pete DeBoer gets hired tomorrow by a team that's struggling, is he a retread? Because it's hard to call a guy a retread who made the conference final in three consecutive seasons. You're hiring that guy because he's pretty good, right? Takes your team to the conference final. Now, I still think there's a feeling. Interesting. Interesting. The thing about the, the, Dabor is I don't think, and he's still getting paid by Dallas this year, I don't think that DeBora wants to jump into any type of situation where a team isn't close, right? Like, I don't think there's any way,

because early on in the season when we're all wondering about the Buffalo Sabres, even though we're still wondering about the Buffalo Sabres, one of the things that was asked is like, well, you know, Pete DeBore is still out there, even though if Yarmot takes over, understand, like, people wonder about John Tortorella. But I don't know that Pete DeBore wants to jump into anything that's not, this team is close and I'm going to hop,

and I'm going to hop on now. No, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. There's certain coaches for certain situations. And I think, too, one of the best things, I like second chance coaches because I think sometimes a coach their first time around, they don't really know what they're doing. And then you learn.

And sometimes you have a huge gap. Mike Sullivan did. Scott Arneal did. So you have that time to reflect and figure it out or someone like Bruce Cassidy when you go from Boston to Vegas. But I think having a gap between jobs is the biggest thing in all of this. Because if you get fired and three days later, you get hired, why? would you change anything that you did because yeah one team fired you for doing something wrong but

the other team went but everything you did gave us the inspiration to hire you we want that right i think when coaches have a chance to take a step back and go okay i need to think about the game differently paul maurice did it for a couple months and i think that was game changing for him because i was very low on him in winnipeg and he looks like a different coach in florida i think it's a good way to get perspective and just take a beat and reset a little bit instead of just jumping into the same shit over and over and over again like a Peter Lovulet. Yeah, Merrick, it's like when your boy, Bruce Brudrow got like fired by Washington and he ended up in Anaheim like, what, three minutes later?

That was that situation. It was, you know, it's funny, I was telling the story yesterday that's when George McPhee, you know the story about when George McPhee, how George McPhee fired him? He was on his way to the practice rank and McPhee said, hey, stop by my house. And Bruce Boudreau goes, okay, I know what this is all about. So he stops at George's house. George opens up the door and says, okay, come on in and sit down and wait. I'll be back here in a second.

And he went and he put his suit on and then came back and fire Gabby like, hold on for doing business. I'm going to wear a suit. He put a suit on. This most old school thing I've ever. 100%. We're not just going to do this by just wearing like, you know, a hoodie and jeans. Like, no, no, no. We're doing business.

I'm going to go put a suit on. We started this conversation talking about wardrobe and Ryan O'Reilly. going to finish it by old school George McPee, putting a suit on in his house to fire Bruce Boudreau. Shanna, you're the best. We shall chat soon, my friend. Thanks for having me. That's the pleasure is all ours.

The great Shannon Goldman from the Too Many Men podcast and the athletic as well. She's awesome. She's one of those people that's just so smart that makes me feel like I should just stop. And chat, don't say, please stop. Like, I mean in the sense of like, I doubt that I have the skills. to analyze the game the way that that that Chana does and and it's constantly impressive the things that she sees in this game that I don't see all these people who have listened to us for however many years have all gone on to great things and you and I are still here still doing the same

stuff and Lou Amarillo jokes stuff I mean what there there's like a thousand hockey podcast how many of them make wrestling references Merrick okay probably like Most of them. But, you know, there's still room in the universe for the thing that we do. Are we just going to spend the rest of the program today trying to soothe ourselves into relevancy? Oh, don't worry. Yeah, don't worry. I know there's a million hockey podcasts out there.

I think we're relevant because we've seen some shit. We're not players and we've seen some shit. Like, that's kind of the where I'm at in my lane in life. It's like we know where you can go to listen to the ex jocks. I'll talk about how fun it is. is to be an ex-joc and and you know we i think we we fill the egghead we've seen some shit and let's have some chuckles quotient and that's a big that's a big hold of fill there's one there's one other there's one other area too is that um strikingly handsome well there is that

you're dick tracy like good looks there greg washinski look at my dick my dick tracy villain like good looks it's me and and prune faced in a race to see who's more attractive No, it's just that there's always there's always new fans coming in. And the fans that we spoke to who are on that sort of cusp of the new NHL that came into the league with Crosby versus Ovechkin. You know, now Ovechkin might be on the final lap and Crosby's got how much time left and how many fans have joined and then gone maybe for good and maybe some have come back

but the audience has and the fandom has rejuvenated itself. And there are new fans coming, which is great for me because I can just keep telling the same stories over and over again. And there's just a bunch of new people to tell it to, Greg Wyshinsky. So that's what makes it exciting for me. And now we're here for Celebrini versus Bardard. How exciting is that? Now we're here for Celebrini versus Badard. And Matthew Schaefer versus, who else would compare Matthew Schaefer to?

It's like all of the 17,000 rookie defensemen who will probably be nipping at his heels by the end of the season. I'm not selling my Zibouiam stock. Would it be Matthew Schaefer versus Lane Hudson? Yeah, probably. That's what it's going to be, isn't it? I mean, it's Luke Hughes erasure, but yeah, it could be Matthew Schaefer versus Lane Hudson. What Beckett Seneca did on Sunday was Luke Hughes erasure. If you saw what Beckett Seneca did to him.

That's mean. That's mean. Like I said, it wasn't the best road trip the devils have never had. Okay, fine. We'll wrap it on that. You be well. We'll talk on Thursday. Bye.

Bye. There he is. Greg Woshensky from ESPN and ESPN.com. Officer Phillips, show your face. Officer, can you be a favor right now for anyone watching on YouTube? Yeah. Can you me me a favor? Can you just say this back to me?

Yep. License and registration, please. License and registration, please. What seems to be the problem, officer? I don't know. We got things to do. Oh, okay, right. Sorry, I'm just, like, amusing myself at this point.

All right, we got stuff to do here. The sheet is powered by Fanduel. Our friends at Fanduel remind you to play your game with Fanduel. It's the NHL season. Fan Duel is your home for action on the ice. From Blue Line to Bet Slip, we've got you covered all season with unique promos, live offerings, and more features to let you play your game. Miss Puck Drop, no sweat.

With the live, same game parley, you can build your bets up until the final buzzer. Download Fandual Sportsbook today and play your game. Please play responsibly 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. We have 10 games. And by the way, were you picking up what I was putting down about Detroit, Vegas? Like, we're not going to learn anything about Tampa or Colorado or Dallas or Edmonton,

but we might learn something about Detroit tonight based on how they play against Vegas. You with me or against me? Your job's on the line here, by the way. I'm talking to our boss after. Look, the longer I've been here, the less afraid I am to push back on some of these things. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I'm going to say I understand what you're saying. yeah so it's not a full disagreement because i get it and like you are kind of right but i'd say

no because it's just like we're too early we're just too early like it's in the game 13 hold on you just i'm just texting i have a meeting with him after your meeting so i'll text him since tell him make you tune into the show i'm getting bullied me i'm getting I'm making fun of my mustache. I understand what you're saying where we can, I'll say this. Where I agree with you is that we can understand whether or not Detroit does stack up. But in terms of like, okay, oh, this is the statement and they're here to play. It's a measuring test.

Like, I'm not quite in that. I don't agree with that. Here's why. There's an old dojo saying, the protruding nail gets hammered down. So right now, the Detroit Red Rings are a protruding nail. Oh, wow, where'd this come from? You know, Dallas has been there, Edmonton's been there, Colorado's been there, like Tampa's been there.

Like, these aren't protruding nails. These are nails that we're comfortable with. Oh, yeah, that belongs there. All of a sudden, this new one has emerged. Are the Vegas Golden Knights going to, and as the old dojo saying goes, the protruding nail gets hammered down? Will they get hammered down by the Vegas Golden Knights to remind everybody where they're really at?

Or can they beat the Golden Knights? and we say, all right, I'm not 100% convinced that they're legit yet, but they didn't get pounded by Vegas. And then you just add another brick to the wall that is. Because right now, you're asking yourself one question about the Detroit Red Wings. Detroit Red Wings. Are they really good? Like, are they really good?

But are they really good? Or are they? No, you mean. You know what I'm saying? Are they really good? It's like, are they really good? Yeah, you're really good. You're going to put the accent on the right spot.

Yeah, okay. For that, I will agree with you. I understand what you're saying there. But I think for part of it, for me, for part of it is just like, this is such a stupid sport. Like, what are we watching on a nightly basis where I'm just like, like last night, I watched two different teams play between 40 minutes to the last 20 and then I have to go on and talk about it after yeah and part of my analysis is like

I don't know what I just saw two games so on any given night I could come here and tell you I don't know what I saw so yes and no is not kind of what I'm saying which is a cop out answer but is my real answer it's it's a November it's a November 4th answer is what it exactly exactly he just gave like that March different yeah that okay I give me a March answer like definitively I know. That's a very November 4th answer you're giving me there. What's spicing your chili tonight? What are you looking at tonight? Okay. I have kind of had fun with some of these, like, dumb things. So I'm going to go back to one. I like, I said yesterday, William Nealander 3 plus.

Now, it missed. He didn't get it. But he had two, and he had a breakaway chance of a semi-breakway with an empty net late. I like the parlay's, and I've got another one for you. It's all the revenge theme, but it's not quite as revenge. Part of it is. Hanging out with Al Berga too much. I'm calling this one. Revenge moment. Revenge period. Revenge date.

He loved those. I can see, I can see Albrega doing that. I can see Revenge date. I can totally see Albergh doing that. It's my revenge date, boys. Okay. Anyway. This one is, this one is called the, don't you forget about me, parlay.

Simple minds. So, starting. with J.J. Patyrka, which is a little more on the revenge theme, but against the Buffalo Sabres tonight, J.J. Baturka. Anytime goal score plus 240. This one is more so in line with don't you forget about me when we go down the list. Frankie Vitrano playing against the Florida Panthers. He played for the Panthers in 2017-18. I feel, and all the way through until 2022. Have you seen his numbers? I mean, mind you, he's been pushed down the lineup. Obviously, Gochee and Crider, but he's got one goal and one assist.

I know. That's why I think that this is where you find it. If you're a team out there that's looking for, if you're looking for goals, you're looking for scoring, someone whose numbers are going to be artificially depressed this year because of how he got pushed down the lineup. And you're looking for someone that could pop you some goals here. You're offensively challenged, Frank Fratrano, Anaheim. Go get your boy. And that's kind of why I'm like, I looked at the numbers and I know people are going to say,

you're an idiot betting on this guy to score. He has one goal in 11 games. But it's like, it's Frank Petrano. And, like, I think he's playing well. He's just not scoring. In some point, it's going to come. Yeah. And the Florida Panthers, don't you forget about me?

Frank Vitrano plus 600 to score. And finally, Alex Ayaphalo, the Kings are playing against the Jets tonight. It's been a while since he played for the Kings back to 2023. But Alex Ayahfalo plus 440. And this one, Jeff, I mean, I bought 50, 50 tickets for the Jace the other day. He was 25 million. I said, yeah. I said, what am I doing here?

Someone's got to win. Why not me? So I bought some 50-50 tickets. Unfortunately, I did not. But this one was a little lottery ticket here tonight myself. $5.637 on a perturka Vitrano and Iafalo goal. I haven't really given out bets, but I'm kind of really enjoying these things. So I'm running it back.

What would it take for you? How much would you have to win on one of your parlays to tell me to go kick rocks? I'm not coming into work today? Like, how much would it have to be? And you'd be like, yeah, tell Merrick to beat it. I have had this conversation. I enjoy my job far too much that it's like even if I won that, I'm still showing up here. Yeah, you can still show up and that's fine.

How much would it take for you to show up and like do two thirds of the square root of sweet FAA? If I won the $25 million 50-50, it might have been, you might have had a different conversation. I'd be here because I love the job but I might have told you like when you ask me about Detroit and Vegas I'd say you're an idiot What are you talking about? Hey space cake like put down the

put down the fork but quit eating that crap man I don't know what they're feeding yourself here All right very good Officer Phillips you'll be Officer Phillips I think for the entire month of November I think that's pretty much Oh by the way bad news for you and me and the chat I got an email during the show

my barber is out until the end of November we are in a bad spot he is a way for personal reasons he's he's away he's gone he's not back until December so it's not upper body lower body it's personal reasons has left the team yeah he's personal so I'm I might be a mess by December 1st I don't know who that's worse for you the chat my girlfriend I don't know but that's we're going to find out that's that that that's who it is wow it's your barber toy you know there are there are other places you can go to get your haircut or are you that guy but i'm like a trust guy like a like a trust it's my hair like yeah yeah i've been going to him for five years it's scary when you change something up like that it's like you get one bad haircut you know whoa what happened here

then you get to a certain age where you're just like happy to have feathers trust me you watch all the rest of all the rest of your friends go gets laugh or go messier messy is my favorite one you'll get there well like and then they they make the decision like just to bick it finally i've always wondered like what happens at that moment where you have like the friar tuck ring and then you're just like yeah i've fought this long enough i'm just going to totally surrender

i've seen it happen to a lot of my buddies One of my buddies had it at 21, and he went Messier. He said he just looked in the mirror one day and was like, that's it. I bet it feels great under a hockey helmet. I bet it feels fantastic. Probably. Probably does, to be honest with you. The new padding they've got in there and all of the gear and everything.

It's like you're getting like a little like scalp massage or like scalp scratches. You're like, oh, you know what? You should have done this years ago, man. This is awesome. I bet that feels fantastic. I would do that. I would do that in the opposite end of it. It doesn't feel so good.

I'll loggerheads with that one. All right, we got to wrap. Thanks for joining me today. Before we let you go, though, one thing I do want to remind you of, there is a brand new show that is launched on the Nation Network that you will want to check out. Grab a coffee and tune into The Sauce with hosts Ryder and Lisa. If you want a mix of laughs, sports talk, and conversations,

you didn't know you needed in your life. This weekday morning show is for you. Live every morning, 8 a.m. Mountain Time, debuted on the 3rd on Monday on Oilers Nation's YouTube channel. Longtime Edmonton radio hosts are going all digital and bringing their candid humor to video. Be sure to subscribe to the Oilers Nation YouTube channel and stream their show on your go-to podcast platform.

Check it out, The Sauce, with Ryder and Lisa. I want to thank Greg Wischinsky, as always, for stopping by on this Tuesday. He's back on Thursday. Those were his normal time slots. And the great Shana Goldman for stopping by from the Too Many Men podcast. And The Athletic always appreciated when Shana makes some time to make us all smarter because that's what she does.

And she brings the swears and the salty tongue and the fuchs and all of the swear words that she's much better at delivering than I am. So thank you, Shana, as always. Thanks to Officer Phillips. As always, we're playing the keyboards in the background. Thanks to you for watching. Thanks to you for listening. The sheet returns tomorrow 1 o'clock Eastern.

It is a burkey day, so stay tuned for that. And Morning Cup of Hockey in the morning, DFO Live, got you covered all day long. Ten games on the go around the NHL. Enjoy it. Tip that Zamboni driver. He or she has earned it. We're back tomorrow with the sheet. I can't get up my head

Lost all ambitions day to day Because you can call it all right I went to the dark man He tried to give me a little medicine I'm like now and that's fine I'm not against those methods But it's new It's me and myself

And how this is gonna be fixed in my mind You want to back I turned on the music I didn't want to bed yet. I turn on the music It's enough, hell, out that you're sometimes losing I've been on the days that we're wrong

In the dead dark night