The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Hellebuyck Requests Trade and Makar Signs MASSIVE Extension ft. David Pagnotta & Conor McGahey

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

On today’s episode of The Sheet, Jeff Marek is joined by David Pagnotta of The Fourth Period and Daily Faceoff Insider Edition to break down the biggest news from around the NHL, beginning with Connor Hellebuyck publicly requesting a trade from the Winnipeg Jets. They discuss potential Hellebuyck trade destinations, what Jets GM Kevin Cheveldayoff could be looking for in return, which teams have the assets to make a deal work, and where one of the NHL’s top goaltenders could ultimately land. Jeff and Dave also react to Cale Makar’s massive eight-year, $20.4 million AAV contract extension with the Colorado Avalanche and examine what the deal means for Quinn Hughes, the NHL defenseman market and future superstar contracts, including Connor McDavid. Plus, they check in on the NHL’s remaining restricted free agents, including Adam Fantilli, Cutter Gauthier and Simon Edvinsson, and discuss the Detroit Red Wings’ ongoing general manager search ahead of the 2026-27 season. Later, Colorado Avalanche radio voice Conor McGahey joins Jeff to break down the Makar extension from Colorado’s perspective, including the historic valuation, roster construction implications, Makar’s importance to the franchise and what locking up their superstar defenseman means for the Avalanche moving forward.#NHL #ConnorHellebuyck #CaleMakar #WinnipegJets #ColoradoAvalanche #QuinnHughes #ConnorMcDavid #NHLTradeRumors #NHLFreeAgency #TheSheet #DailyFaceoffReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

He's asked for a trade. No, no, no, no. He's demanded a trade. What's in a word coming up here on the sheet? Welcome to it to kick off another week here for this Monday, August 31st. About to say goodbye to August, which I'll admit it got a little bit goofy. I think people, I think the summer really felt a little bit long and people were away from hockey a little bit too long this month.

So with training camp on the horizon, I think we can all start to breathe some hockey sanity into our lives. A lot coming up on the show today, and it's going to revolve around the two main topics that we saw play themselves out late last week and into the weekend, one involving a contract and one involving a goaltender trying to escape. Conner Hallibuck going public with the trade request. I caught myself there. We're going to talk about demands versus requests here in a second with the trade request, which, as you'll recall, if you've watched or listened to this podcast for for a number of months and or years you'll know that Greg and I talked about the Wyshinsky and I talked about this I want to say April when we were in Kelowna is that right Zach April maybe

May I think we started to first hear the rumors and then we see the statement from Connor Hellebuck to his agent how months ago he very quietly asked for a trade that would have been right on that same time that we were starting to hear the whispers about it and we'll talk about the Kale Makara contract, what that means for him, what that means for the Colorado Avalanche, what that means for the NHL, what that means for the CBA, what that means for a lot of different entities that are involved in here, either directly or indirectly. So Dave Panyoda is going to stop by here in a couple of moments. Let me know when Dave was aboard.

And also, Connor McGehy, our good friend from the Colorado Avalanche, pay-by-play voice of the Avalanche, we'll stop by to talk about what this means for the Aves. and whether that number was something that everybody saw coming. I'd like to be Bulgarian seeing that number. How'd like to be Craig Leopold, the owner of Minnesota wild seeing that number? I think about a couple of things in the summer, like what does Pat Verbeek think when he saw the Leo Carlson number?

And what does Henry and Susan Samueli think? Or what did they think when they saw that number come in? I'm curious what Bill Garon and Craig Leopold thought when they saw that number. Well, doesn't Leopold only have himself to blame? Sorry, Jeff, to cut you off on that. But doesn't he only have himself? Isn't he the one who kind of was like, oh, we're going to get it done? And then he's started this.

He did it with Capriza. He's doing it with good news. Sure, yes. Uh-huh. I get it. I understand. And I know you want to when you're an owner and you're wealthy beyond many people's wildest dreams. You want to puff your chest out, I guess, and flex your pocket book.

Let me ask you with us, though. Let me start off with this because, again, so much of what we end up doing here in media comes down to semantics and language. And what you see now, whether it's Dylan Larkin or whether it's Connor Hellebuck, the idea of demanding a trade versus requesting a trade or asking for a trade. And the way that I distinguish it is this. A demand has some consequences to it. You trade me or I will blank.

And that may happen with Connor Hallibuck. We don't know. If he's not traded, does he report the training camp? I mean, I believe so. He's a pro. I think he still goes. Ditto for Dylan Larkin. I don't suspect that there'll be a withholding of services. That's why these are trade requests, not demand. Demand is a word that you use. I think when you want to ratchet up the emotion. And I get it. I'm in the entertainment industry, too. I get it. I'm in media. We're part of the hype machine. So don't think that I'm putting myself. outside of this conversation or somehow above it because I recognize that I am not. But the distinction is you can ask for a trade, request a trade, and that is what Dylan Larkin has done, and that is what Conrad Hallibuck has done. The word demand carries with it consequences. You do this or I do that. And to my knowledge, that hasn't happened here.

It's a small thing, but you know I am a very tiny individual who focuses on the smallest of the tiniest microscopic topics you don't say it's mr slot shot oh god slot area don't even get me started good goal yeah good goal yeah you took that shot from the slot area as opposed to the slant anyhow general consensus there's another one that I always oh geez as opposed to what other kind of consensus you were big footing nick alberga today yes I filled in hosting leeks wanting take alongside. You want his job, right?

Like you're trying to take his job actively? Yeah, exactly. He's gone. He was in Latvia. He's gallivanting all over Europe, and you're trying to big foot the guy. I think that I'm requesting his job and not demanding his job.

That's what I'm doing here. Okay, very good. Wait a way to tie that one up. So what did you and Rosie talk about today? What did you get into and what did you disagree about? I'm guessing you were dealing with the two main issues that we're going to get into here. Yeah, the one that we have.

the biggest disagreement was about the Connor Hullabuck situation, where Rosie's perspective on it was that he doesn't like these players signing these deals and as early on in the deals as they do requesting out, i.e. Connor Hullabuck, i.e. Dylan Larkin and saying you've committed to this organization, this city, this franchise, and for you to this early on, say, I'm done. Rosie didn't like that. My perspective on it was more so that I'm okay with what Halebuck does if he looks at the forecast. of the franchise and says, I'm 33 years old, and I don't think we'll be competitive again

for another three. And then it says, I'm willing, I would like to leave. And he opens it up and says, I would like a trade. Let's work something out. Rather than where Dylan Larkin is, where Dylan Larkin reportedly said, I'm only going to these three teams. I think those are different situations where I can understand what Rosie's saying on the Larkin side. I think it's a little different from my perspective on Hallibuck's side. Right. Okay. So the one thing, and this hasn't, again, I'm going to throw out a couple of things here that, and I know people hate it when you're like, you wonder about things and sometimes it's informed and sometimes it's not. I genuinely am curious about a couple of things here with Connor Hallibuck. When he signed his extension, him and Mark

Sheifley, and we can get into Shafley here in a couple of seconds, when he signed his extension, this was a particularly sensitive time for the Winnipeg Jets because there was a concern that if Pellibuck goes, if Shifley goes, they rebuild, and the team looks over the economics of what a rebuild looks like and says, uh-oh, we don't like looking over this cliff. We don't like what we see here. I'll tell you what, let's do these deals. We'll give you the financial security and the number that you want. Do this solid for us now. And if things start to take a turn and we start going backwards, you have our blessing that you can, that we'll try to move you. You have our word that. Now, again, I don't know if that conversation was had. I know there

have been some situations before where teams have done that with players. Like, look, we got to calm our fan base down. Do assist solid. And if things don't work out, we will get you out of here. I can tell you for a fact. And everybody who's followed hockey for any length of time can tell you, for a fact that has happened before. Has it happened here? Did it happen here with Conor Hellebuck? I don't know. The other thing is.

And this can kind of be a sensitive one. But he mentioned it's the best thing for him and his family right now, for him to play somewhere else. Things change for a lot of American hockey players playing in Canada who are on the U.S. Olympic team. And the cozying up with the White House and the State of the Union address, I do not want to turn this into a politics show. the Presidential Medal of Freedom, Trump with Connor Hallibuck as well.

I know that the reception that some players got in Canada, some American players with the gold medals got in Canada was not great. And for those players, it could have seemed like their hometown teams turned on them, unlike in past seasons with various players from different nationalities, winning gold medals and coming back to their teams in Canada. I, again, I don't know if that was a factor, but put it this way, it wouldn't surprise me. Because some of the things that I did here was there were some players who were like, wow, man, it really feels like my hometown fans have turned against me because of the gold medal,

the party, the women's team, the White House, the state of the union address. Anyhow, all of this will be answered one day and we'll see what happened. Right now, let's bring in Dave Panyoda. DFO Insider. To shed more light on this one, it really was, you know, it was a trade request that was made a number of, I know if you heard our preamble about trade demands versus trade requests. My pet peeve is, you know, he's demanded a trade. Like, well, no, a demand comes with it a consequence.

And he's not saying trade me or I'm not going to camp, right? So like this is like the, it's a trade request, same as Dylan Larkin. And this goes back a few months. We've been talking about here on the program for a while. You and I have talked about it as well. This is no secret. This has existed on the barking chain and the whisper circles, all of it around the NHL.

But was there a part of Dave Panyoda that said, that's an interesting tactic going public with the trade request here? Yeah. It's from their perspective. I totally understand it from the player's side, from Hellamuck and his agent's side, because they anticipated something happening around draft. Yeah.

You know, the request took place, you know, at the end of the season. And in early, or end of the season slash early May, somewhere in between there. And, you know, the anticipation was something was going to happen by the start of summer, which ended June beginning of July. And it didn't. It got close. It got pretty close with Buffalo. But it didn't happen, obviously.

So as things didn't progress, you know, you got to kind of try to move the needle here a little. bit and kind of not necessarily force anybody's hand, but you want to apply a little bit of pressure with camps getting underway in a couple of weeks. And it's going to be a bit of an awkward scenario, you know, certainly if he's still there. So let's apply a little bit of pressure now before camps get underway. European media tour was last week. NHL's North American media tour in Vegas is next week. Can something happen over these next couple of weeks before camps begin on the 15, 16th, 17th of September, that allows him to be in a new environment and gets the jets what they're looking for as part of it. I don't get the sense that when the

request was initially made, that Shevall Day Off and Company in Winnipeg said, okay, we hear you we're going to pull the trigger on something relatively soon. But I think the notion was we're going to try to make this happen and accommodate this as soon as possible before it really gets out there and, you know, you don't want to have something overblown. And we saw to an extent how that can be against a player in Detroit with Dylan Larkin and the fans kind of shifting their attention against him. They didn't want that to happen with Hullabuck in Winnipeg because he did genuinely enjoy his time there, but things haven't gone the way that he anticipated, plus some of the other things

you were talking about too. So am I surprised by it? No. do I like it? I'm kind of indifferent, but I understand why it was made at the time, because it still gave them three plus weeks of leeway before camps get underway. The one thing, again, that I do wonder about. I'm not sure how much of the introductory conversation I had with Zach about it, you heard, but one of the things, because you know that this type of arrangement has happened before. Look, do us a solid, sign the deal, we'll keep you here, we'll give you max term, you have that security,

happy family, happy agent, happy player. I know you might not want to be here if this is a losing situation. So if we turn sideways or start to go backwards, you have our word that we try to get you out of here. I don't know that that has happened here, but if it had, it wouldn't be the first time. You believe it that they had a verbal, like, listen,

if it's not happening here, we will get you out. And that triggered him saying, okay, now we're taking a look backwards. I need to want to come. I'm not getting any younger. Yeah, I believe that was the case. However, I don't think either side anticipated it happening as soon as it did. You know, I figured that my understanding was, okay, if we get to three years left on the contract and we're just not there, you know, and you got three more years or two more years to try to, you know, go win a championship, we'll do you a solid.

We'll try to find you a new spot. Yeah. And obviously other circumstances have factored into this decision. last season did not go swimmingly at all for most of the team. And if that surge that they got in the last quarter of the season happened at the halfway point, maybe we're having a different discussion. Maybe they squeeze into the postseason, but it didn't happen. So we're dealing with reality.

But I think there was the understanding, look, we're going to get this done. Same time they got Shifley done. We're going to make this happen. And if things don't go well, you're getting your money. You're getting your contract. but if things don't go well with two, three years left on that deal, we'll try to make, you know, we'll do you solid. We'll try to find you a good environment to go after a championship.

But again, this is a lot sooner into the deal than then, than that would have been. So I think from that perspective, this happened a little prematurely, but taking into account how last season went, where things have gone, not adding additional reinforcements, forget about draft picks and where they drafted. I think that, coupled likely with some of the stuff that you and Zach discussed prior with respect to the USA

and winning gold and the fan reaction and things like that. I think that factored in a little bit. I don't think it's been that impactful on Connor Hellebuck as some of the other guys. But I think it did play a bit of a factor in all of this. Now, again, he really did enjoy his time with the Jets and did want it to work out. It just has it. So, you know, it's his right to request it. It's now up to the Jets to find the deal that they feel is most suitable in order for them to make it happen. And that is crucial for perhaps the future of players like March I Flea or Josh Morrissey or go right down the list of defense.

Kyle Conner. Kyle Connor, who just signed a massive deal, Dylan Sandberg, like players whose contracts were up in a couple of years as well. It's interesting right away. It's like, okay, so make your fantasy trade. And some of the team, I mean, Buffalo is an obvious one, right? because we definitely know that there's interest there. I think a lot of us wonder about New Jersey. I think a lot of us, I think you and I have talked about,

like, would it surprise anybody to see all the suitors exhaust themselves and Carolina come in with the last minute low ball offer and get them for pennies on the dollar? Because there Winnipeg's up against, it would be a very Carolina thing strategically for that to happen. San Jose's name is certainly out there as well. Are there any other sort of Utah? Utah would be, yeah, absolutely, absolutely for Utah,

as they continue to go big game hunting. I mean, these are the likeliest candidates. And I think we always have to keep the caveat open that there is always one dark horse. There is always one that nobody sees coming. But those are the usual suspects for you. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. I mean, I think Buffalo would still like to make this happen.

I don't know if since the request became public last week that things have escalated. I think you're also made it at a time where everybody's kind of coming out of hibernation. Yes. You know, getting back into it. And okay, let's all right. I guess we should have this discussion now

and at least start things off. But, you know, everyone's coming back from the cottage. Everyone's starting to dial in again and figure out what's going on. And okay, I guess I should prepare a camp start soon. But I think the savers would still like to make this happen. I still believe that they've got the assets that can probably pull this off.

You know, for me, it's going to come down to, if it's not the Sabres, who's going to step up and try to make that happen? Is it Carolina? Is it Jersey? Is it the sharks? Is it, you know, the mammoth? You know, some of these teams have goaltenders

that they can flip back. You know, we know Stuart Skinner is there, but are there other options that they can include? Is it UPL from the Sabres? Is it Cachecov from Carri's? is it Velamaki or whomever? You know, it's, it's, and then, and then what else? Like I think the Sabres, excuse me, the Jets still want to cross off a few, or check off a few

boxes on their list, especially on that second line. You don't want to put all your eggs in your first round basket, even though they like the kid and signed them pretty quickly, but I still think there are other holes on this team that they want to fill. and if they can utilize Hellebuck in order to do it, that's obviously what they're trying to do, and that would be for them the home run given the circumstances. If it's Buffalo, it's got to be lying, no.

I mean, Oucapeka Lukanan's no trade just kicked in. I know it was like five team, but still, no offense, Winnipeg, but Winnipeg's on a lot of the no trades. Yes, yeah. It would have to be lying, and then you'd be looking at Lion and Skinner as your battery for the Winnipeg Jets. Again, if it's Buffalo and if there is. Right.

Now, again, the other thing. I don't think we should disqualify from this too is we could see like a weird goalie carousel trade. You know, like I've always wondered about Alex. I'll be honest with you. I've always wondered about Alex Lyon ever since Sunny Meadow took over the New Jersey Devils of Alex Lyon ending up there with the association going back to the Florida Panthers. And then you run with Jake Allen and Alex Lyon as a combination this year. And all of a sudden like, oh, you know what? Maybe.

Maybe that's a good looking tandem. And then Hala Buck ends up on the Buffalo Sabers. I don't know that this necessarily is just going to be a deal that's made between two teams. Right. And the other curious part for me, and I don't know what is no trade looks like, but Jordan Bittington also has a no trade. He's in the final year of his contract. We talked a lot about him going into July or into the draft. I don't think the Jets necessarily need, to your point, I don't think they need a goalie coming back in a hellabuck trade. but are they going to shift elsewhere or look elsewhere or platoon this situation and go,

okay, here's what we've got in this basket and here's what we've got in that basket. That basket's going to include a goalie that we don't necessarily need, you know, coming back in a hellabuck type deal. Is it a Jack Quinn that's part of a combination? Is it, you know, one of their younger kids, one of their draft picks that's going to be a centerpiece along with, you know, whoever at McLeod or Quinn or whomever, that they potentially include in a deal if it's the Sabres. Let me throw a name at you here.

I wonder if this is a no-fly zone. I mean, there are just some players that are. Yep. But you know that Winnipeg would be interested in Josh Don't. Well, yes. Would that be a no-fly zone, do you think, for the Buffalo Sabres? Consider that trade. That trade is essentially the Josh-don trade.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I'd be surprised if the Sabres would consider something like that. They locked them up to his brand-new contract. They really liked the kid. It was like quasi-com. coming out party in the playoffs for him, for Benson, for some of those guys. And, I mean, we all know what they were capable of, but I just mean on a national scale,

there's always a couple players on the national side of things that really just become the spotlight goers for a lot of these. And, you know, Conjory Miller with the Keynes over their cup and so on and so on. So you always have those kinds of guys. I'd be pretty surprised if the Sabres go in that direction. And, you know, from their side of things, I mean, they like their team. They like what they've got. it's not like they're going to have to, you know,

the jets aren't forcing anybody's hand here. They're not in a position, excuse me, of strength in making a deal. Now, again, request first demand. There's, you know, I think there's also an understanding, even though it's, you know, not ideal that, hey, if this doesn't work similar to Dylan Larkin, if we can't figure this out, if we can't maximize, you're going to have to wait this out a little bit. Now, perfect scenario, we get this done before the season.

We get full perfect scenario. We're done before camp. But, you know, everybody's got to be prepared for the possibility that they're going to have to roll into camp and perhaps start the season, even though that's not what everybody would want, given the circumstances and under these situations. But nature of the beast, these guys aren't going to just give away Larkin

or give away Hellebuck just because they've requested a trade or want a trade. They've got also, obviously, that's their job, taking to account what's best for their teams. We know it's going to be miserable in Detroit, at Little Caesars. when if Dylan Larkin's not gone every time. It's going to be, as I was saying online, it's going to take some major stick handling to calm everyone down to the position

where Dylan Larkin can essentially play his way into a trade. Right. I think we all understand that. It's going to be really, really tough for that player. Do you think it will be the same way for Hellabuck in Winnipeg? Well, A, I hope not. Because B, I think the way that he approached. this has it was significantly different.

You know, he reiterated his, what the organization has meant to him, right? He tried to anyway. And I don't know. I haven't gotten the sense, and it's still relatively fresh. It's not, it hasn't even been a week. But I kind of, like, I haven't gotten the same indication or inkling that the Jets fans have turned on Hellebuck the way Wings fans turned on Larkin. And I understand why in Detroit.

I get it. But I think because of the way he kind of cushioned the blow a little bit to say, like, you know, I wanted to win here. I'm grateful for the organization. I've loved my time here. It just feels like this is, you know, I got to take next steps. It seems like that messaging has come across a little bit more delicately with the fan base and a little more passionately. Or not passionately. What's the word I'm looking for?

there was some compassion in his messaging that was delivered to the fan base. And I think some people, and again, I haven't gotten a full scope on how things are going in Jetsland right now. But at least the initial has been not nearly the same type of grab your pitchforks and let's go after this guy kind of thing like it's been in Detroit, at least optically. But, you know, again, if it doesn't happen, and depending on how he kind of expresses himself entering camp, if he does, and the trade's not done,

I think a lot of that will dictate whether or not we do see the pitchforks and the fire sticks come out. Whereas in Detroit, I just, I don't know. I haven't got, at least online, and, you know, everything's right online, that the fan base has, I don't know if there's coming back from that on Larkin's side, quite frankly. Again, that is going to have, that that's going to take some major polishing. Yeah.

That's going to take a major, major shine. And I think everybody in Detroit sort of has to be on the same page, including the fans that if you want this guy out, he's got to play his way out. That, I don't know, that's going to be so weird if Larkin's to know. Let me ask you this. What do you do? So bizarre. Yeah.

And if he does start, Camp starts, what do you do with the sea? Well, that's the, for me, it's off. You can't have,

you can't have a captain that's requested a trait. Like that, that, to me, that's the, that's the, I mean,

Shane was on, like Golden was on last week, saying that it creates more of a side show. And it's, it's, you know, throw another log on the fire, squeeze the gasoline on it.

Like, it just makes it even that much bigger. I just don't think you can do that. First of all, I think fans would push, but not that you, make every sorry hockey man you can't make all of your decisions as a team based on what your fans want what's your line you start listening to your fans too long soon you'll be sitting with them

I don't think you can do that um I think you take it off right away I don't and I put it put it if you're larkin you wouldn't want it yeah I mean because how do you walk into the room with any credibility how do you walk into the room with any credibility here we go boys let's win this one yeah for what he understands that too I think he gets it like yeah of Well, would you slap it on somebody, not slap me, you know what I mean? Would you give it to somebody else? Would somebody else take the honors? Or would you wait until he's out before you.

Yes. Great question. I'm so glad you got us there because yes, that's exactly my thought. Not just right away because you want to talk about creating an even more bizarre dynamic in the room. Right. The first thing that everybody needs is some, like once it's over, you need some distance. Right. And right now you need, so I'm with the, when it's over, then,

after a certain amount of time. Then you do the sea. I subscribe to that one. I'll show up in the room and all of a sudden like, hey, Mo, I think you got my jersey. Actually, no, Dylan. I don't, man. That's me now.

My dry cleaning is going to be ready at 2.30. If you can go pick that up for me, that would be wonderful. So what's the cascade in Winnipeg then? What does this mean for Shafley? What does it mean for Morrissey? What does it mean for Dylan Sandberg? We'll make this the last part of our conversation. but I'm always, I think all of us are curious about the butterfly effect here.

So he puts that trade request out. And so what does that mean for everybody else in that room? Well, I mean, I think, first of all, I think they were well aware of the situation well in advance of this becoming public. That said, I think a lot of it just depends on what this return is going to be. And what it looks like. Yes. Yeah. If they bring back pieces that are going to allow this team,

or at least give them the opportunity to be competitive again and to get back on track and to give Cole Profetti some assistance on that second line. Like if Connor and Shifley and Morrissey, those guys do what they're supposed to do and what they did last season, especially Shifley who had a career year, he can replicate that if the other guys can get on track, if Connor's in the 40-goal range, if Morrissey's, you know, ruling that blue line,

Sandberg and everybody else and Perfetti's taking the next step because he's got reinforcements and Valardi's contributing and so on and so on, then I think everybody's okay. I think there's, like Kyle Connor made that commitment last summer. Shifley made it at the same time as Hellebuck. You know, Morrissey's got a couple years left and whatnot. I think everybody just wants to see how this is going to unfold and what pieces are we bringing in to keep us competitive.

And if they stay competitive, I think everybody's still on board. But if the return is a futures type return, which I don't anticipate happening, but I'm not the one doing the talk, so we'll see. If it's futures driven, then I think that changes the whole mindset of the main guys in Winnipeg. I don't expect that to be the case. Yeah.

But there's always that possibility if that's the best option available, if this does drag on. You see, what we talked about earlier, we'll end it on this one. What we talked about earlier about the agreement with the contract, hey, look, we're going to give the term, family's going to be great, it's a really nice number.

Happy to have you here. We got to calm our fan base down. Did they have the same conversation with Shifley? Because you remember, wasn't that long ago? It's like, oh, yeah, you know what? Sheby's got to trade double nickels. Chevy's got to trade the goaltender. Like, we all thought they were going.

Where's he going to be? Shafley going to go to Philadelphia? Is he going to go to Boston? Right. Remember how much airtime did we use talking about the Shifley trade that never happened. Instead, they got a contract extension done. But I wonder if the same conversation with Hellebuck. happen with Shifley.

And if that is true, what then? Yeah. Like that one I don't know. That one, I'm not sure. But if they did, then it's a very short leash as to what happened. Because you can't go back to back on these types of things. You can't move Hullabuck and the next week move Shifley because they're going through your full. Like that's a full rebuild.

And the messaging that you're sending to your fan base and everything, especially in that market shifts entirely. I think, is it entirely possible? did that too sure they could have had the same same conversation with Kyle Connor we're going to sign you this eight year deal we're giving you 11 million bucks and in a few years if it's not working out if the team flounders then you know we'll do you solid we'll revisit this as well um that's all possible um but again I just think if if they bring back you know immediate help it's gonna it's gonna push this team forward I think everybody's on the same page they're going to roll with this if not or if they do

and the pieces don't work that's also a possibility then you have that conversation in the offseason at your exit meetings going, all right, where are we going here? And do we have to look at this? Do I have to take a little look into the mirror before I decide what I want to do, even though they're locked into contracts and all that stuff? It's a sticky situation, but it's realistic. So I'm tempering a lot of those talks for how's the hell of buck trade going to look like.

And then I think we have a bit of a clearer picture as to the direction of esteem. I'm with you. If it's players and they're loading up and I know Central is Death Valley and I get it, it's hard. But if we're, if they can take a swing at it, I think that it calms the waters

for the Shifleys and the Samburgues and the Morrissey's, if not, then we have more air time to fill. Dave, great stuff as always, pal. We'll catch up soon. You got it, buddy. See up.

Dave Peno to DFO Insider from the fourth period. Okay, so the other big story was a big number, 20.4. That is the AAV for the NHL's best offenseman, Kail Makar, personally, as I'm sure, and maybe I got into it with you over of the weekend online. I love this deal because it reinforces what I've been saying for years, and that is players are not general managers. It is not their job to manage the cap.

And if there's anybody who deserves $20 million based on the max in the cap, it is Kail McCar. I still think it's of value, by the way, for the avalanche year for comment is Playboy Voice of the Colorado Avalanche the great Connor McGeehee. Connor. That's a little bit of a spicy news bit towards the end of last week. At what point, and maybe it was never until we saw it, did you start to think

maybe his number starts with a two? When did you start to think? Was it like the Leo Carlson situation? Like, oh boy, the numbers are massive now. When did when did you think that there was going to be a two involved? I had one inkling at Maclin-Celebrini and then I said,

nah, you know, it'll be fine. And then when it came out, I was half surprised that, you know, because we're not used to seeing $20 million contract for the national hockey league. But because of who it was, Kail McCar, when it's all said and done, could be the best defenseman of all time in NHL history. I don't even think that's hyperbole at this point. Then it makes sense. And what happens is you get the eight years, which is the important part,

because $20.4 million AAV in eight years, assuming the cap is trending in the direction that it's going now, like you just said, it's actually going to look really good. It's actually going to be a value contract for the Colorado level. You know, it's funny. I was having a conversation last week with the manager, and we were talking about where it's heading and cap floors and all these things. And he said, you know, internally, we think that the salary cap in five years could be 150.

In five years could be 150. Like we're not used to this. Like we're used to flat cap and we're used to COVID cap. So all of this, it can be like a real, what did Teddy Alice, the great boxing trainer, used to refer to body shots as water in the basement. Oh, water in the basement. Water in the basement. So some of these contracts are like, oh, man, water in the basement.

The foundation's going to be wrecked. Nothing can happen. The house is going to crumble. And I keep saying to myself, this is not, it looks like a water in the basement kind of contract, but it's not. And as a matter of fact, the fact that he did it now and didn't wait until next year and the cap at we estimate $1.13, if he was going to take the similar amount, it would be $22 million. Yeah. So.

And look, he's not just at, he's at 20.4, which is just shy of the max, right? Which is $20.8 million, which he was eligible to sign for. So I'm not saying like $400,000 isn't going to. Some tip money. Some tip money for the odor. You know who's buying dinner all season. by the way, and probably next, at least until 2031, when Nathan McKinnon is up.

But to your point, teams like the Colorado Avalanche needed to be $150 million. They do, because McKinnon is up in 2013. Like Joe Sackick said at the end of last season, after the abs lost to Vegas, he said, as long as you have McKinnon and McCar on your team, then you are in a championship window. And that was the plan with McCar.

This was always going to get done. And I think Kail McCar has deserved whatever he was going to get. I think the same goes for Nathan McKinn. And those are two players who I think will have been here and will always be here in Colorado. You have two future Hall of Famers, two at the best in their position in the history of the NHL period. And for anyone to grumble about it and selfish players, all these types of that. I say, it sounds like you're asking for something in exchange for nothing. like I think that in in some ways Connor and I think we all understand why he did it but the McDavid

contract I think spoiled some people about expectations and that was a unique circumstance and we can look at it cynically and say well you know what from a marketing point of view from a public perception point of view what McKinnon did is he gave himself a soft landing if slash when he leaves he can talk about what he did and the financial sacrifices he made and it gives him a little bit of an exit strategy should he decide to take the trap door. And I think that that kind of poisons some thinking, to be honest with you. And that's why Leo Carlson was jarring. That's why McEl Sellebrini was jarring. And that's why now Kale McCar is jarring. Like if McDavid had taken the max and then Kail McCar took the max, I don't think the reaction would have been the same.

Would have been like, you know what? Yeah. Because everyone would, everyone would have been used to the number 20. Like someone's got to do the anthropology, right? Someone's got to be the anthropologist and come back to the village and share the findings. And yeah. Kail McCarro is the first. And now he's brought it back and like, look guys, we can do this. We can get a two. See that?

There's a two. We can do this now. And now he'll get all the darts initially selfish, player over team, all these types of things. People losing sight of the fact, as you mentioned, like he's going to go down as one of the greatest defenseman of all time, minimum. And I personally have Lidsstrom in that rarefied errors as the number one. But who's to say that he doesn't tickle that by the time his career is over?

And you know what? You should be lucky that you're in a position where you have a $20 million player. Right. Like you're the Avalanche. You have $20 million player, man. And you have two, really, with Nathan McKinnon who's making $12.5 million way underpaid until 2013. So teams who have multiple superstars and most of, most do, I think.

if you want to boil it down in the National Hockey League, most don't get the timing to a point where you have to pay one, but you don't have to pay the other one for a long time. And the gap in between that is rarely more than a year or two, and to basically have four seasons now where you have that flexibility to put more pieces in where the cap is floating around 113, and maybe towards 120, 122 at that point. That's where the avalanche have locked out.

And again, nobody is cheering more for, $150 million salary cap because the water in the basement, that salary cap, the higher it goes up, the harder that sum pump around the foundation is working, the water's coming out of the basement. So what is it? So we're just talking about the Dave Peña. It's a really good extended metaphor there. I'm impressed. But not surprised. You're talented.

You're a talented broadcaster. You know, I'll tell you what, Dave and I were just talking about, you know, the cascade effect of what this means on the rest of the Winnipeg Jets with the trade request from Conner, Hellebuck, et cetera. But what does this mean now? What does this number mean now? We've talked about us sort of in terms of what's next for Nathan McKinnon. I think that what Cala McCarr now has done is soften the blow for a lot of other players that are going to get into that. Hello, Quinn Hughes.

Sorry about your luck, Bill Guerin. Like that blow has now been softened. But what does it mean for players on the avalanchea? What does this mean for the team? Let me pause there. The one criticism that we saw from pillar to post from stem to stern is, oh, he's putting himself above. of the team. You can't win a Stanley Cup with a $20 million hockey player, et cetera.

How would you address that criticism? I think that you, you, these are uncharted waters, really, for the, for the national hockey league. First of all, the type of talent in this package we haven't really seen in our lifetimes. I mean, you're, you're hearing anecdotes about, you know, how a gaudy, how it changed the game for a lot of us, weren't able to see. Gordy Hell play live. We're not able to see Bobby Orr play live. So this is this version, and it's obviously a completely different economical landscape than it was back then, too. So this is something you can't compare anywhere else. Knowing Kale, there's no selfishness about him.

I don't think. I think he wants to win, but he also knows his value. And I think there's something respectable about that. And again, you're looking at this huge number that's in there right now in this landscape where it changes over, again, like I said, at the beginning, eight years. So the important question right now, I think, is the next UFA piece, which is not Nathan McKinnon, it is Arturi Lekon. What does that mean for one of the most important players on this team and his extension, he's a UFA after this year, everybody under contract. But basically your biggest question next year is Arturi Lekinen. How do you fit a Lekinen contract into next year when you start to pay that $20.4 million?

I think that's the biggest question. And a priority for Joe Sackick, who went out and got Arturi Lekin in the buildup to the 2022 Stanley Cup championship, one of of not the biggest piece, I thought. in winning that Stanley Cup over the Tampa Bay Lightning. So I think that's the biggest question. I don't think selfishness even comes into play. I didn't think that one time for Gil McCar here. I think he knows now that he has to earn it.

It's like the end of saving Private Ryan. They're on the bridge and Tom Hague. Matt Hennon says, earn this. You have to earn this. Okay. Cal McCar is now an aged Matt Damon in the cemetery. Norman. Okay, so let me go at this from a different angle. And as a somewhat of a quasi, I would never call myself a historian, but someone who's interested in these types of things,

and specifically the history of the two world wars, I respect that analogy. Let me throw another thing at you, old carny terms, okay, old carnival terms. And one of the famous ones is, what we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings. And that's the story of a salary cap. Hey, we're doing great on the roundabout, but everyone is spending on the roundabout is not spending on the swings. When we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings. Once upon a time, pre-lockout 2004, sorry to remind everybody, there was a move. Bob Good now, and he ran the union, would always talk about it. Every top player has to move the bar for everybody else.

Make more room for everybody to come underneath. It was Wayne, it was Mario, it was Messier, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, these types of things. The salary cap you can't do that because what we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings. there's a finite amount of money we have in a hard cap. It is not a luxury tax situation. Is there a place in the avalanche lineup that you say, if the roundabout is Kail McCar, we gain on the roundabout, we lose on the swings,

where is the area that might take the hits? Is there an obvious one? Or do we just have to wait to see it play out? I think we've started to see it a little bit. That would probably be the bottom six for me, where you have, and Val-Nachushkin doesn't fit into this. Right. Because Chishkin now at Schwartz in,

and you could put him third or second line, wherever he's going to fit the best. But with Val-Natushkin, Jack Drury, Ross Colton, no longer on this team, you brought in youth and very cheap contracts with Leroux, Svetchkov, from the Nashville Predators, T.J. Hughes, University of Michigan, is he going to work out?

You also have another, Walt Marine and Gavin Brindley here. You have cheap, but very good options to fill in your bottom six as a lineup in 26, 27 for the Colorado Avalanche. So I think we've seen sort of signs already as to where you're having to make a little bit of sacrifice. Because remember, and I left out Nicholas Waugh next year for an extension for the avalanche, which I don't think is entirely fair. to start Turi Lekin. And I think Nicolpah was a fantastic pickup and thrived on this team. Did not thrive in Toronto. Someone just described him as a Western Conference player. I need a backtrack and put him

into the mix as well. But I would say that the bottom six of the avalanche is where at the moment you've had to make some sacrifices contract-wise. Jack Drury was not going to get the money that he wanted here. Ross Colton was making over $4 million, which wasn't. living up to the production that he put into this team, not necessarily his fault, injury ridden over a two, three season span. So I think the short answer, and my long answer to your question is that it's the bottom six at the moment for the Colorado. So let me take that one step further.

Because when I first saw the deal, after I picked up my jaw and I started to figure, okay, so what is this going to mean internally for the avalanche? the one department that I thought right away who looked at this and said, okay, more pressure for us is the analytics department. And the one thing that the avalanche have done, like at the elite level, okay, like I put them right in there with Carolina, smart bets on the bottom six. And Parker Kelly is an obvious one.

Or on the bow line, there's another, and I'll look at like Sam Malinski too, who gets his way in the lineup and it helps, you know, force a move with someone like Sam Girard. Like the one thing that the avalanche and their analytics department has been able to do year in and year out is identify players who have a higher ceiling than is being realized on other teams and bring them in at a very cost-effective number, essentially because the team they were with didn't believe in them. Sure.

I still, and again, I always point to Parker Kelly. Like, pull the trigger on Parker, like, that is such a Picasso, right? Like when you look at like player acquisition. Right. And everyone like 100%. There's not a soul on earth who hates Parker Kelly. And I can guarantee you that. And you can ask anybody in the NHL.

Nobody dislikes him either. It's a perfect pickup for Colorado. Sorry to interrupt. And so no, but my point is, okay, so to offset the number, the analytics department is like, okay, we got our work really cut out for us. Like they need more production. We'd have a production on the ice. They need more production like that. that's from their analytics department.

Agree, disagree. Yeah, 100% agree, because in this new world that we live in, both with CAP and with information, I think you have to win both battles. And Joe Sacka, Chris McFarland, now with Nashville, had done a great job. Andrew, the assistant GM, has done a wonderful job. He came in from Central Registry at the National Hockey League.

Nobody knows Caps better than Andy does. So that was a huge acquisition by the front office that nobody really talks about. but is so important nowadays. But then you take Aric and his department in analytics and it said, okay, in order for that office down the hall there to work, this office here needs to get them the assets and the things that they need to make that work.

And I think that used to be on two different sides of the building, and now they're right next to each other, which is what creates a successful organization. And the avalanche with a team that hosted the analytics conference, for all sports this year at Ball Arena, was there helped with the panel. That's no accident. So I think that the analytics department knows that they've done a good job up to this point. But with the elitiveness of McKinnon, McCar, you had Devon Tavs, Marty Nachis,

all those contracts have been done, but it squeezes everything. And when you get squeezed, you need to find those diamonds in the rough as we continue our movie theme with Aladdin. And that's up to the analytics department. now. You're just waiting for at the end of the contract in his press conference, Kale McCar, just to blurt out the aristocrats. 20 million, the aristocrats.

Okay, let me close on, let me close on this one. How is this gone over with the fan base? I mean, certainly the fan base is, a, thrilled the player is staying. As Joe Sackick has always said, he's retiring in Abbey, he staying here as an avalanche. Remember the Colorado Avalanche. What's the fan base done with this? Oh, fan base is, we were,

gifted on a silver platter at number four overall in the 2017 NHL entry draft, Kail McCar, after Miro Heskinen, after Nico Hesier, after Nolan Patrick. And I always wanted to this day what, I mean, Jersey seems pretty happy, but Philadelphia, Dallas to some extent, it's hard to play, you know, 2020 hindsight. But the fan base knows what they have here in Camel Carr. And I think they're like, you know what, it doesn't really matter. And to Joe's comment at the end of the season, when you have Kail McCar and Nathan McKinnon, you're always in a championship window.

So you do whatever you can to keep them. So I don't think there's one like, well, that seems like a lot. I don't, everyone's like, yeah, that makes sense. And that's been the overall emotion reaction here the past couple days. And again, like I actually think he's worth more than he took. Like when you look at it, when you look at production, the car you go like, I'm sorry. Like you want great hockey players. They don't come cheap.

Like you got to pay for them at the end of the day. day. Carnar, this has been great, as always. Enjoy an abbreviated training camp and preseason schedule as we get going a little bit early this season with 84 games. You'll be well. Always great to catch out, my friend. Thanks, Jeff. Good to see you. There is. The great Connor McGehy, play-by-play voice of the Colorado Avalanche talking about the Kilmaccar contract, 20.4 AAV. And again, like, I come back to this same idea. I think one of the, and I don't know how they did it, maybe. players did it to themselves. I don't know how the NHL did it coming out of the lockout of 2005.

Somewhere along the way, they convinced players that they were in charge of running their team's salary cap. I got news for you. They're not. And, you know, I also have wondered, I'm going to go historical here on you a little bit, 2005. If Bob Goodnow didn't resign, and I use that in ironic quotation marks, resign, who said stabbed in the back?

didn't resign as executive director of the Players Association if he still was the executive director when the salary cap came in. If the movement would have been, okay, the NHL got their salary cap boys, but no discounts, no bargains, none at all. We're going to do our best to try to change the system. We want a luxury tax system, which is, I don't think enough what Gary Bettman wanted in 1994. During the first lockout and Bob Good now, charmed him into believing that he didn't need one. All those other leagues need one, but you don't need one, Gary. If Goodnow would have been the executive director in 2005. If it would have been no discounts, not a chance.

We're going to bully our way to get this salary cap changed. By the way, hey, here's one for you. I'm just thinking about this talking to Connor. And Zach, I love, you can book Connor McGehee like five days a week. And I will be thrilled because he's fantastic always. do you remember the ranges for the salary i don't even know if you were born then i'm sorry of the original salary cap 2005 no no but i remember i think you brought it up to me about what they looked like previously what what was it what was the range the upper end was

39 yeah and the low end i was 21 till mccarrer It's 20.4. It's now making the low end of the salary cap for 2005. Holy shit. Hang on, let me check that. Let me just, filibuster for a second. Hang on.

I mean, the thing I also find amazing about that is how that salary cap came into play when previously we were hearing about players. Yeah, 21.5. 21.5 was the low and 939 was the C. Kill McCar's one mil a year off. Yeah, he's almost got the floor.

It's amazing to me too that they got to that point where it dropped down to that because correct me if I'm wrong, were there not players who are making upwards of five? It was massive. Close to five to ten. Like in there was. And then how did you get to 39 is the max? Well, Amnesty buyouts, right?

Like I think Detroit's, Detroit, New York, I think Philadelphia all up around like between like 70 and 90 million dollars. like they were all just blowing their brains out. Like it was, it was insane. It was, it was amnesty buyouts. Right.

Darian Hatcher, I remember was the king because he had played, Darian had played one year with Detroit at big money and then got bought out. And then like a day later signed a massive contract with the Philadelphia Flyers. I think like over the course,

no one made more money in the NHL, I think over the span of like seven days and Darien Hatcher was something like just completely absurd because he got his amnesty buyout and then he signed right away a big deal with the Philadelphia Flyers because the flyers didn't think that the new standard for officiating cracked down an obstruction was going to, they're just, ah, the official was going to call it for a month

and then let the hooking and holding continue. So they got all these like massive defensemen that couldn't turn and weren't mobile at all because they just thought like our defensemen did cross-check you into hell. and then they kept up the standard on an obstruction. Philadelphia kind of got kind of got paid. I understand that that's the reality, but it is just an insane concept to think that there were players

who were so valuable basically if the rulebook was thrown out. They were like, well, if we just don't worry about any penalties and we can do all this insane stuff out there, we can attempt murder, you are worth a whole lot to me, sir. And then all of a sudden they were like, well, actually, no, you're going to be penalized for that. and they went, holy shit, we have these guys who can't skate. What happened?

They can't turn, boss. We have four guys who can't turn left. They're burning us to the- 10-mill a year if he can pitchfork the guy into the third row of the stands. But once that's out of the equation, I don't know if he can play in the league. That was hockey. This is what I grew up with, man. This is hockey.

You must go back to games in the 80s and 90s and go like, what the hell is this? What the hell? I was actually having this conversation. on every rush. Last week, I was talking to on Thursday night or Friday, I was talking to some of my buddies about the old Rockham Sockham videos. And there's a lot of good stuff and funny stuff in there. But if you watch the hitting sections of them,

how many times are there guys who basically are, like, dead on the ice? You know, exaggerating. But they're just laying there motionless. And some guy has come in and didn't stop moving his feet from, Santa Rice. And Don Cherry's like, there you go, way to send a message. And it's just like, that's like a 10-game suspension today. That's just how it was.

That's the comment. I got to go watch them. I got to go watch them. There's some insane hits, and that's just how it was. Okay, so let me throw a counterfactual at you then. So a couple of years ago, I remember going back, just summertime, bored watching old hockey. games watching the 86 Stanley Cup final Montreal and Calgary and watching

guys trying to skate through the neutral zone and they've got a stick on each hip and they're being held and pulled down no whistle no call whatsoever they like bend their knees to try to fight through it through the neutral zone fast forward to now

if a player even feels a tap on his hip what does he do? He's going down he goes down to draw a penalty so what would you rather see Someone trying to skate, bend their knees and fight through it? Or are the guy who dives? No, I get it completely. And that's one of my frustrations when the World Cup was on.

People are like, everyone was laughing watching me watch the World Cup all my friends around because something would happen. I'm like, oh, this is a joke. Like, well, that's part of the game. And it's creeping into hockey here now to an extent. But it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. That's what it is.

You know, Jeff, actually to the point I was watching a clip, it popped. up. I think it might have been DFO Edmonton or somebody posted a clip. They do these like throwbacks. And it was strutty. I'm pretty sure who's strutty. For those who don't know, Jason Stredwick, yes. Sorry.

Angel Defensive. Who was strutty? Who was tailing a guy from the hash marks. Was it Razor? All the way behind the net out to the other corner. And he just had his stick hooked around the guy's waist and was basically skiing. Hockey. Behind the guy.

Yeah, hockey. Puck was dumped into his corner. He lets the guy go first. Holds onto him all the way around. Rides him into the boards. Different time. I loved it. Growing up,

I didn't know anything different. I look back now and I'm like, I watch some shitty hockey for a long time, man. I watch like really bad goaltending. I watch shitty hockey. But it's going to be the same as what we're watching now. 20 years from now, Jeff, we're going to look back on this and say,

wow, we watch some shitty hockey. It may not be to the same extreme, but I think that there's an evolution that's going to come in it. It's going to happen. We're all going to look at it and say it's very different game. What's it going to look like? Again, I have no clue what it's going to look like. Because honestly, I can remember being a kid

and watching Canada Cup 87 and then World Cup 96 and thinking this is the fastest it's human possible, that it's possible for a human to skate. this is so fast this is so quick and mind you these are the best players in the game of the time

I kept thinking there's no way this game could be faster like this is the fastest a human being can possibly skate I watch it now it's still great hockey and the emotion is fantastic

but I'm like yeah maybe you should just like shut your mouth America but this is the fastest anyone can skate what are you going to do I'm like 17 years old yeah I know No, it's a fairer evaluation.

I look at it and I think the same. And then you take a step back and realize, hey, like, tech's going to change. Blades will change. The weight of the boots will change. Maybe someday the shin pads size will change. Like, everything gets narrowed down, the more aerodynamic. Player training will change. I don't know.

I'm speaking obviously, like, very broad where it's like, okay, yeah, thanks, Mr. Obvious. Things change. But I don't know what they'll be, but there's going to be an evolution. of the game. We'll look back and I'll be, I'll be sitting here hosting the show talking to me. I'll be taking your job. I'm going to take out Burgess first and then I'm going to come for your job.

I'm going to request your job. Yeah. Request your job. And I'll be doing this and saying, you wouldn't believe the game I was watching 20 years ago. What's this crap? I can't freaking believe that. I mean, I wonder if by then, because the game just does get that much more faster, but I'm assuming the size of

the rink is going to stay the same. not that I wanted international ice hockey size but like the finish the finish size would be nice a little more room on the outside but if they're not going to do that then I wonder if they're just like going to yank officials off the ice

to create more room less bodies yeah because like if it's going to be that fast and that sudden yeah I don't know I have no idea what this thing's going to look at are we going to go to four players as high

laugh all you want but they used to laugh all you want they used to be seven bud I know that's when the game was outdoors Merrick I know I didn't have curse sticks and then have to go chop down trees to make sticks I know no Raysies and I get it yeah yeah yeah yeah but games change yep yeah it's you're right now I think five's a good number I think we let's leave it at five but okay no official so the other thing too if you want to increase if you have the same size of the ring but you want to increase

space, you get rid of the lines. That's a way to do it. I know. Yeah, you've brought up some different ideas around that stuff. Again, hang on. I don't want to dwell on it, but I'll give you the one example. If I handed you a blank piece of paper and said here, Zach, here's a piece of paper and a pen, I have this idea for a game that's played on ice.

There are five players aside, and there's a puck, we'll call it. A flat ball. Okay? You make the rules. would you create offside? Would it even enter your brain to think like we need some zones

where like we can stop play or just like continuous flow sport? Would you create offsides? Probably more continuous. If there was new history, no history weighing you down or clouding your thoughts. Yeah.

No you wouldn't. That's a good point. Nobody would. Nobody would. Nobody would. Nobody would. You're lying to yourself. She's lying to them.

There's no. way. There's no way. Every, you like that one. There's no way that anybody would create offsides. Anyhow, a quick thought to wrap up here on our final two topics, really our only two topics of the day, which are the massive ones.

And that is Connor Hellebuck and Kelmachar. Yeah, I mean, I'll just reiterate, I think that with the Hella Buck situation, and the point you brought up with Dave and Dave said he thinks this is the case. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. As long as,

in my opinion, as long as he's not saying, you can only trade me to these two, three teams. I think at that point, it kind of starts to become problematic maybe is the wrong way to put it, but that's kind of the direction I go where it's like, okay, now we're just getting these guys where they will only go to these spots. It hurts the team they leave. We're also seeing it.

So a little bit of a bias from my end, but it's Canadian teams that get hurt on the way out because a player says, I'll only go to ABC and then you go, what the hell? ABC can only offer me this much, and I have to take it. If that's the case, then I think it's tough. But I completely get it from his perspective where he says, I want to win and I'm 33 years old.

When are we going to be competitive again? And if it's not within the next two to three, maybe it's time for me to jump ship. The Kill McCar thing, I agree with you. It's not up to players to manage the cap. And Cramer in the chat is, he's disagreeing here a little bit. He brought up, he said, Jeff, if a player like McCar takes the full bag and then the team struggles to add necessary pieces at the deadline due to being cap strapped.

It is your belief the player holds no responsibility, question mark. Yeah, yeah. Sounds like it's a, that's a general manager problem. Or that's the nature of the salary cap problem. Yeah. I'm sorry. How is the player responsible? Yeah.

Again, did the player, hang on, whoa, whoa, wait. Now, I haven't looked at the contract. Like, I have full disclosure, I have not seen the deal. but did kale macar sign himself to the contract or is there another name on the deal? Oh, there is? Oh, so Colorado agreed that this, oh, okay, all right, I just wanted to make, again, having not seen the contract. Yeah. Colorado looked at it and said, yes.

Yeah, exactly. Again, that's not his, again, not his problem. Again, there are plenty of moments in everyone's job where you're like, not my problem. not my issue, not my problem. And I still think he's, I still think you're getting value for that number. He's worth more than $20 million. When you look at production and what he's worth,

go look at Domestritions analysis about how we place his value. That's, that's an easy and obvious one to follow. And he's not the only one. I hate to break it to you, everybody. You have like the best defenseman in the world, Colorado. Yep. You have the best defenseman in the world. it's not going to be cheap.

But that's okay. Because you got the best defenseman in the world. Yeah, exactly. What problem to have. Can you have someone else at eight? Yeah. But you don't. You could build the team with all guys at eight.

But yeah, right, exactly. Exactly. That's kind of the way I look at it. You've got to find the guys who make the most sense for your team to fill in the rest of the salary cap and the rest of the roster spots that you have. That's up to the general manager because that is his job. That is why with Connor, I mentioned, this puts a ton of pressure on the analytics department. Go find the players that everybody else is missing on.

Go find those guys. And historically, Colorado has done a great job of doing that. Carolina are the master class. And we saw that and it culminated with the Stanley Cup. But Colorado are elite at finding players that others have missed on. for the longest time. Now, keep doing it and do more of it. That's the challenge.

That's your challenge. And if you don't want to sign the player at the value of which he wants his contract to be at, let's look at, hmm, like a similar comparable situation that I think maybe a team like Colorado actually has experienced before with a guy like Miko Rantonin. Then you take the piece and you move the piece and you acquire a, assets back that you think will help the team. If you don't think the player at the number he wants will help your team, you can move off of the player and get other assets that you believe will help your team. You are allowed to do that. That is the job of the general manager. And I mean,

I think it's like what we talk about with Tulsi. I know you brought up the example of Carolina, but to even further it, it's like a puzzle in a sense. Like you have to be a problem solver. You have to make these things fit at the size of the puzzle piece. How did the other things fit around them? Where does everyone else go? How do you complete the entire picture? Okay, Kail McCarr's puzzle piece, Jeff? It's now this big.

Maybe Parker Kelly's is a little bit smaller, and McKinnon's is a little bit smaller. You've got to make them fit together now. I don't know why it's animosity towards the player when it's Joe Sackick who signed this contract. Like, if anything, should it not be like, like, again, if you don't like the deal, Joe Sackick, what are you doing?

Not, oh, players, greedy. Because when you say players greedy, what it feels like is you understand how great this player is. You just don't want to pay for it. You want him to give you a bargain. Like it's significant. And that's why I think that McDavid kind of erected it in some ways for a lot of these guys. Because now the blow is tough.

Really, like Connor McDavid should be the one with the first 20 in front, like the first two in front of his contract. but if you're going to criticize anyone for this deal, don't criticize the player. He's not the one paying the money. And I happen to think that this is a really good deal for the avalanche. Great deal for the player, really good deal for the avalanche. They have the best defenseman in the world.

Yeah. You got the player. Now it's up to Joe Sackick to go find players to complement all of this. it's not up to Kail Makar to necessarily make Joe Sackick's job easier. It's his job to play and his

agent's job to get him the most possible money or the best possible deal. That's it. Everything else is the manager's job. It's not Kilakar's. It's not Cal McCar's job. If Cal McCar wants to take less money,

that's great. Fine. Go ahead. i.e. Connor McDavid, go ahead. If Cal McCar doesn't want to, then now it's up to Joe Sackick to figure out how to spend the rest of the money that he has available. Like it's simple as that.

I'm glad you brought up McDavid too because the thing about McDavid is he's like so singularly focused on the Stanley Cup. Like it's the obsession of all obsessions. This is his white whale. And we all understand that. McCar's already won a cup. I don't think we can lose sight of that too.

I think that's part. I wonder if Colorado hadn't won the cup already would it still, that's a part of me, like, yeah, you can get me on that argument. If you hadn't won a couple already, would it still be 20? I don't know. But that's his choice.

That's not because he should take less. That's his choice. Actually, I know we've just gone along here, but there's something people have brought up in the chat and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. If you don't mind a couple more minutes on this, Jeff. Don't you know how busy I am on this August 31st? I know, sorry.

The tweet from Sam Nessler, that came out today. I saw that, yeah. Multiple sources have informed at DLLS underscore stars that the Dallas stars plan to move their game broadcast from Victory Plus to Amazon Prime video starting this season. Sam also had a follow-up tweet that said that he has heard as many as five or more teams could also move to Amazon Prime video as well for this upcoming season. People in the chat have brought this up.

It's a big topic online. What are people like, what are, because this is to me like the shift, the shifting dynamics of broadcasting right now. Like we live in a world of transition. We understand it specifically here in Canada. And there's a U.S. deal that's on the horizon too. And I think that's why that, you know, one of the reasons why they're,

NHL's hustling to get major markets like Houston and Atlanta. And yes, sorry, even if you don't believe in them, Arizona, back into the mix because they want those markets for TV. To me, this is just, okay, this is the evolution, the complete evolution of the hockey broadcast. broadcast landscape. That's all. What are people in the chat saying about it?

I don't know that there's necessarily something major to draw out of this other than, you know, Victory Plus has given it the college try with Anaheim, Dallas, et cetera. And it's a tough slog. It's a tough slog. The people in the chat haven't really sided one side or the other on this situation about frustrations or anything about a bunch of people have just brought it up.

And we're curious if we're going to comment. on it. What I've read online so far, Jeff, is pretty similar to my... I don't know what the future of Victory Plus is. And I guess as someone who works in the industry, you hate to see any broadcast entity fail. Yeah. Because it's bad for all of us. That's good point.

It's bad for all of us. Yeah. It's bad for all of us. The only thing that I've seen online and I experience the same frustration, this one's a little easier because I also have this streaming platform already. It became as a necessity over the last two years. But the variations of ways that there are to watch a game, sometimes it's not just that you can watch it so many different ways.

Sometimes it's that you have to watch it so many different ways. That's the only thing for me where it's a little bit like, I've got to get this subscription and that subscription and this subscription to be able to watch. It's a lot for people. It can price people. which is a little bit concerning as we try to grow the game. But that seems to be the biggest frustration for people. But that said, I think a lot of people probably already have this for hockey purposes.

So maybe that eases the blow. I don't know. I suppose with all the different subscriptions, it's almost like everything in life is all about timing, right? Like careers about timing, your relationships about timing. Like when you meet someone, when you get a subscription to this place, or where you're at critical mass. When it comes to something like hockey,

like for football, like football has hit a certain critical mass where they're just like this enormous volume of fans that consume this. From there, I think you can fragment broadcasters and safely say, okay, we've got our group under the tent here, basically. I don't know that hockey's there.

And that's why I'm always sensitive. That's why I'm always sensitive about making it hard for people to either, well, I am very sensitive about getting them in the arena because the inner arena experience is the best one. But even just watching at home, like making it more difficult for your fans to watch it. And if you want to grow the game and the traditional, just get more people under the tent as opposed to get the people under the tent watching or listening longer. If you're just looking at bringing in new people, you want to make it as easy as possible

and as inexpensive as possible. And then once you hit a critical mass, then I think you can fragment with different subscriptions. But specifically in Canada, we're already there. Yeah. We're already there. And you can make the argument that's like, yeah, you know what? In Canada, they're there.

And so that market will sustain it. I believe, we'll see. I could be proven wrong. I know there's a lot of angry people about how much it's fragmented and how much is going to cost. I understand all that. Whereas stateside, there's still fish in the pond. Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah, and like, as you point out, yes, in Canada, for the most part, like there's going to be a lot of people like me and like you who are, it may be annoying, but you know what? We're going to be doing it because we want to watch hockey. Like we have to, but like we want to watch hockey. So we're going to do it. We're going to bite the bullet. We're going to get the services we need.

It's more so like my, I think about the trickle down with like, okay, I'm a new hockey fan and I've been able to turn on my cable every night and it's part of my package. and then now all of a sudden I turn it on, it's like, oh, it's gone. I don't know where to find this. Do I want to pay more? Maybe not. I don't want to turn this into an audit on CBC because I know people get their backs up.

I'm a pro-CBC person, but I don't want to turn this into audit of CBC. One of the great things about having Hockey Night in Canada was everybody could watch it. Everybody had access to it and everyone, it became part of the national dialogue. And everybody had the same frame of reference because everyone was able to watch all the same games on Saturday night. and how many hockey fans did that free show create? Millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions. And the penetration was coast to coast to coast. That's gone now.

Yep. It's sad from that perspective. It is. Yeah. It is. I don't want to sound like, oh, old guy married to the old TV model and free TV and Saturday. It's different universe. Marrick.

As far as sustaining the game, that property was so valuable. Yeah. A, making fans and being sustaining because everybody could watch. And it was free Saturday nights. Anyhow, different reality, chase a dollar, shareholder value. What's the stock price? Yeah, I get it. I get it.

I know old man shakes, just the clouds. It's just the innocence of it. I'm like, I want everybody. I know, right? I know, right? I know. It's not the reality. That's not how it works.

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All right, Zach, that's it for us. Oh, yeah, I was wearing the hoodie yesterday. That's so comfortable. Yeah, I know. These things are totally comfortable. The hoodie's so comfortable. The hoodie's really good. Back with the Rockets, eh?

Back with Key. Yeah, I've been rotating through. Yeah, so I went through Kitchener for a long time. I was wearing the Brantford hat for a long time. And then I was going through the abundance of hats. I got you, Everett. I went out of my way to go back. Okay, yeah, there's the green.

Right out here. Yeah. And then I pulled up to Colona and I was like, I think it goes with the sweater I have on today. So I threw on the Rockets out. Fresh off the runways. of Aurora. Ladies and gentlemen,

Sack Phillips. Sorry, ladies, he's taken. Sorry, ladies, he's taken. Thanks so much for watching. Thanks so much for listening on your favorite podcast platform. Always appreciate it, especially now, even before the season's

getting going. You're still with us and hanging in there, so it's a good decision, and we're happy that we kept the feet hot for the entire summer. Full-time schedule coming up in a few weeks, I think two, and then we'll go to our five-day-week schedule. Still to be determined, still to be worked out,

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So thanks for watching, thanks for listening. Thanks to everybody in the chat, especially those who disagree and throw darts. Always appreciate those. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And we'll talk to you again, I believe tomorrow and then Wushinsky on Thursday. Wanted to make sure we got a show in today just because so much happened over the weekend that we didn't want it to sit any longer until we had a bark at it.

So that was our bark. I'm sure you've had yours and we're back to do it again tomorrow. Have a great rest of you then.