The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Hellebuyck SUSPENDED By Jets, Reaves Retires, and Contract Chaos ft. Greg Wyshynski & Sean Avery

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

On today’s episode of The Sheet, Jeff Marek is joined by Greg Wyshynski to break down the biggest stories from around the NHL, including the latest wave of major contracts and extensions across the league. The biggest story of the day comes out of Winnipeg, where Connor Hellebuyck has not reported to Jets training camp and has been suspended by the team as the star goaltender looks to be traded. Jeff and Greg discuss the latest on the Hellebuyck situation, what it means for the Winnipeg Jets and how it could impact the NHL trade market.The guys also dive into the latest NHL contracts, including massive new deals for Cutter Gauthier, Drake Batherson, Ryan Leonard, Luke Evangelista, Justin Sourdif, Alex Newhook and Jordan Staal, plus the latest news and developments from around the league.Then, Sean Avery joins Jeff Marek to talk about his new show coming to The Nation Network, what fans can expect, his thoughts on Connor Hellebuyck and the latest NHL contracts, his time in the NHL and plenty more from his career and experiences around the hockey world.It’s another packed episode of The Sheet with Jeff Marek, featuring NHL news, NHL trade rumors, contract updates, training camp storylines, Winnipeg Jets news, Connor Hellebuyck and Sean Avery.#TheSheet #NHL #Hockey #ConnorHellebuyck #WinnipegJets #SeanAvery #JeffMarek #NHLNews #NHLTrades #NHLRumorsReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So welcome once again to The Sheet in our shiny new downtown Toronto studio as we've been here for a while. Someone else who's in a brand new studio because he moved is Greg Wyshinsky. Welcome to the sheet for this Thursday, September the 17th. There's your date stamp. What are you going to put behind you? Shelves with toys like in the old setup, I think. Right now I'm in a big white room. If it's a little echoy, I apologize.

There's no carpet. There's no sound deadenders on the walls. You may also hear the charming, the charming sounds of New York life. As I realized, our new house is in the path of both helicopters and ambulances. So there's going to be a lot of flavor sometimes in this podcast. You know, when you go to a hockey rink, you expect to hear the ping of the post. You expect to hear the puck off the glass. You expect to hear whistles and you expect to hear the swears.

it's just referred to as ambient sound. And we don't need to give you a locator, I don't think. Like here's Greg Wachinsky joining us from New York. If you just like throw open a window, we can hear that it is New York by the sounds of New Yorkers complete with ambulances and perhaps yacht horse strolling by and police cars. Well, it's more the house shaking rattling of the helicopters flying overhead

as the, you know, Kendall Roy's of the world they're getting from their office back to their homes in wherever the hell the rich people live here. So, you know, it'll look cute. It'll look whatever. Right now it looks like I'm in some sort of purgatorian void as you speak to me with the whites of my walls behind me. Don't forget what I was always told about television. If you want to make someone look smart, put books behind them on a shelf and put glasses on them.

But here's the thing, just to tie it into the show. I keep the walls white in honor of the white out in honor of the Jets fans. Oh, here we go. All right. According to Kevin Sheffleday off, the door is open, baby. He's coming back. He's got five years left on his contract as Connor Hellebuck. And he is coming back.

The door is open. It's up to you. Balls in your court, baby. If you want to be a jet, well, by golly, you can still be a jet, says Kevin Shevoldeoff. He's part of our family until he isn't, was the exact quote, I believe, from from Kevin Shevoldeoff earlier today. So what Greg's referring to, and coming up a little bit later on in the program,

you should mention Sean Avery, who has a new show on the network, on our hockey fights YouTube. We'll be stopping by at about 40, 45 minutes time, so stay tuned for that. In the meantime, the news of the day. Kevin Shevoldeaf speaks about Connor Halebuck, the trade request, the suspension,

not at camp. We've been talking about, well, actually, you and I started talking about this in April, when Zach and I were in Colonna. And that's when, full transparency, that's when I first started to hear the whispers, about certain players on the Winnipeg Jets saying, I don't think that Hallibuck is happy here.

That post-Olympics, and Kevin Shevolde, I've talked about this today, and what happened post-Olympics with his family, specifically his wife and authorities needing to be called and how the family was being treated, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, these whispers, like the whispering class,

the barking chain, call it whatever you will, this goes back to April, which is when we first started to hear about this. Right. And he not only talked about the abuse, use that Conner Hellobuck's wife, Andrea, was receiving. At the time, Helibuck called it Blowback. But he also addressed the TSN report this week by Darren Drager that Helibuck will not waive

his no movement clause to join any of the other six Canadian NHL teams. Quote, I'm not going to get into specific teams. My guess is to what his restrictions are in those regards. Again, the choices that he makes are the choices that he makes. I don't have an understanding as to why he made some of the choices. that he made when talking about those kinds of situations. That's a, that's a Shevolde-Dioffian way of saying, yeah, he ain't staying in Canada. No.

So that really does further tie my hands. And I thought we'll get into some of the specifics about what Cheval deauph said in a second, but I thought what he did well today was explain how hard this trade is to make. And we've talked about this before on the show. It's not only that it's Connor Hellebuck, three-time Vesna winner, MVP of the league. And it's not just that he has a no movement clause. It's that there is a finite number of teams in this league that need a number of goaltender. So hang on a second here.

This is where I'm a little confused because he said the teams that he, that this is Kevin Shevold-day off, and I'm paraphrasing, but I think I got the spirit of the thing here, Reg. He said that the teams that he wants to go to already have number one goalies. do you think Carolina has a distinct number one goalie? Do you think Buffalo has a distinct number one goalie? Let me, I'll clarify for you because you mucked it up a little bit. Some of the teams that he would go to have number one goalies. It's not his entire list is teams that have number one goalies.

Some of the teams that some of the places he'd be interested to go have them. If you wanted to go to New York, for example, well, you've got two Russians that are currently in, inhabiting the creases of the islanders in the race. But New Jersey. New Jersey's a different situation. No, no, no. So I get that. So if you're taking all of the Canadian teams out of the equation,

many of whom, I mean, Edmonton, chief among them, would love to have a Connor Hellabuck. Yep. If you're taking them out of the equation, if you're taking teams that have established number one goalies, they're not looking to upgrade or get rid of whether it's, again, just throwing it out there. Think of who has a number one goalie in the United States.

The Rangers, the Islanders, the Dallas stars, right um washing capitals logan thompson capitals yeah so there's a few others like you know if you take those out of the equation then what are you really looking at and so i thought shovel day off did a good job explaining why we are now in a situation where hellabuck is suspended for not reporting to camp and why they are still you know fiddling around with this trade thing because one they want to get value from him and two they can't get value from them because the trade market It is basically like four teams at this point, if that. Yeah.

And again, too, even though the accolades are many, and even though he is one of and at times the best goaltender in the NHL, trade returns for goalies are notoriously light. And they already have been. Like I want to have a conversation at some point today about salary bans for players and whether the goaltenders are going to be the ones that get shut. out here. We'll get there in a couple of seconds.

But the returns, like when was the last time we looked at a goalie return and went, holy smokes, they got a ton for this goaltender as opposed to, that's all I got. For whatever reason, for whatever reason, no matter how much you talk about how important goaltenders are and how we think about all the cliches, Harry Sindins, goleys are like oxygen, I only think about them when I don't have them. Like, there's so many goalie cliches just underscoring how important they are to a team. And if you don't have one, it can scotch your entire season, the returns for these guys are really light.

They're really light, Greg. Which is why when you see Dregor's report last week saying, you know, the returns or the offers have been brutal or the returns have been really soft and the returns have been really bad, I kind of greet that with, yeah, that's the way it's been for goaltenders. Yeah, shovel day off also. address the idea that the offers for Hella Buck have been terrible. He said, you know, maybe terrible's not the right word.

And I'm sure he really regrets having said that to Drager. Anyways, the point is, it's... Dogface. The point is that, you know, he... It is, it does complicate things when it is a number one goalton that you're trying to trade. And it is number one goaltender of his age that you're trying to trade. The thing that, you know, we've talked about in the show. And that we've received a little bit of pushback on was this idea that at some point when Connor Hellebuck committed several years to the Winnipeg Jets, as did Mark Shifley in the same month back in 2023, when there was rampant speculation that one of them or both of them would no longer be Jets, that there was some sort of handshake agreement, some sort of gentleman's vow that if the Winnipeg Jets weren't contending for a Stanley Cup, that maybe Conor Helibuck could go to Shevel Day off and say, hey, I

I ain't feeling it anymore. Move me, please. And that request would be granted. So we talked about that very thing plenty on this podcast. Like, anyone who's been with us for any amount of time knows. This has been a recurring theme. And the only reason I think that we've presented it is because it's happened before. Like this would not be new to the NHL if there's an agreement that's like, look, sign this deal. It's a five-year deal. But look, if after a year or two, you're still not happy. here, we'll move you on. We just need you to get us through a tough time. Like these types of things have happened in the history of the NHL going on for decades. That's why I think the only

reason we and more specifically me, because I think I was louder about this at the time, is it's happened before. And that was, as you mentioned, a really sensitive time for the Winnipeg Jets. And I think the Winnipeg Jets at various times recently in the last few years have looked over the edge, looked over the edge of the cliff and said, what does a rebuild look like? What does a rebuild look like for us financially? And they didn't like what they saw. And so would it be beyond the pale for shoveled out to go to both double nickels and the goalie and say, hey, if you do us a solid now to get us through, well, we have time to

cobble all this together and take another run at this thing, if you're still not happy, then we can have the conversation. Right. Exactly. And so he was asked about it. And I thought his answers were really interesting because he, he, you know, he was, you The gentleman's agreement thing in particular, he took a very sort of letter of the law kind of approach to it. This is an NHL contract, sir.

This is a national hockey league contract, sir. You cannot put that in a contract, sir. And it's just kind of like, no, but you can have an agreement. You can still have an agreement. Are you, like anyone who's ever negotiated a contract or talked about anything, there's obviously that moment in which you're just like, okay, what are the next seven years of my life going to look like? You know, if things go side. ways, what happens if, you know, if we miss the playoffs for three straight, all that stuff comes out in the negotiation.

It doesn't mean it's written into the contract, but at least there's an understanding about it. And that is the essence of gentleman's agreement. Do we have that clip just so we have some full contacts for people that didn't get a chance to watch or listen to Kevin Shevoldeoff? Here he is describing what Greg's talking about here. Kevin, when he signed that extension, was there ever, I don't imagine anything was put in writing, But was there ever an understanding or a gentleman's agreement that, you know, at some point,

if he came to you and decided that he didn't want to stay here, that you would look to trade him? Well, first of all, you know, again, a contract is a contract in the National Hockey League, you know, period. There are no side agreements. There's no general agreements. You know, the league doesn't, you know, allow for that. So any, you know, I guess the fact is any notion around that would not have any merit. You know, that being said, you know, we are a team that has been trying to be competitive. We've been trying to push things forward and try to, you know, to win on a regular basis.

And, you know, again, when Connor came and asked, you know, and requested, you know, being traded, we kept it quiet. That was partly on his, you know, request as well. And we tried to, you know, make that work. And we've been trying to make that work ever since. You're right about the letter of the law thing. Because, look, how many contracts have been like, look, we don't have the cap space right now. We got to come in a little bit light, but maybe there's something in the drawer for when the window opens up next time. And there's a little more, there's a little more sugar in the coffee for you.

Like, like, like, Chivaldae up is talking like, we're accusing him of, of signing Connor Hello Buck up with a tree planting company to get around the salary. We're just, we're just saying that you said if the team sucks at some point, you know, we'll trade you. But more to the point, though, like he also talked about that within the context of Shifley and why he. And Chevaldeaft's contention, and we kind of both thought this would be his tact here. Of course. Is that we gave it the old college try. We've been a competitive team. We've been a playoff team absent like last season.

But I do think that, you know, there's been a lot of pushback on the idea that the Jets are maybe entering their different phase right now. And that might be why Hullabuck is considering, you know, asking out, you know, along with all of the political Michigan. that we've talked about just earlier. I mean, like, them not being competitive last year was, I think, for two reasons. One was Helibuck wasn't good until he needed to be, which was in the Olympics. And the other was, you know, they lost Nick Eilers. And Nick Eelers has been a very big part of that team for a very long time. He was a significant secondary scoring option behind Kyle Conner and Mark Shafee on the top line.

And they didn't have him anymore. So, you know, loss of talent, you know, Helic Buck realizing, okay, if it's all on me and I'm not good, we're not good, I mean, I think it all plays into it, even if ultimately maybe the decision is because of, you know, personal family reasons, as was addressed before. 33 years old as well. And has won a gold medal and I would like to win a Stanley Cup. Thank you very much. Can we talk about that for a second? Sure. I had a GM reach out to me today.

about this hell was it kevin shovel day off it was not kevin shovel day oh okay and they made the point and i think it's a good one that like some of the reaction here to hellabuck asking out has been sort of vitriolic in a way that maybe you wouldn't expect and and i kind of agree with that like when you go into the comments on on some of this hellabuck stuff you'd think that this was cutter goatee bagging out on the flyers like yeah you'd think this isn't a guy that gave this franchise a 11 seasons, three Veznas, five Vesna finalists, an MVP award in 2025. Like, it's not as if he hasn't put in the time. I agree.

And I find it kind of like, listen, none of us want our favorite guys to want out. And none of us want our teams to be, you know, kneecapped by the best goalie in the world on certain days, asking out from the team when he's got five years left on his contract. I'm sure Detroit's the same way with Dillen Larkin. But at some point when it comes to a guy like Connor Hellabuck, isn't there a certain amount of time served? Isn't there a certain amount of you've given us this run? It's kind of like what we always talk about when Connor McDavid wants to leave. Like is any oiler fan going to be like, F you McDavid?

How dare you turn your back on this franchise? No. No. He gave multiple contracts and multiple runs to the Cup final and everything he could to that franchise. And I think the same could be said about Connor Hellibuck right until this moment in the exit interviews last time. And again, like I know a lot of. of fans will hang on to him. Hang on. He's in year three of a seven-year contract and, you know, your word is your bond and you promised and you vowed. I'm sorry, when family gets involved

and family gets threatened, everything changes. That's it. I'm sorry. But it doesn't have to be when family gets threatened. Like if I signed a long-term contract with Yahoo and they got sold to oath or whatever the hell that Verizon company was and all of a sudden all my bosses are different and all of a sudden my staff is different. Yeah, I mean like shit changes. It just does. And, you know, the idea that you, it's such a weird, weird thing for me to try to understand the mindset of a fan sometimes when it comes to these long-term contracts. Like, yeah, in a vacuum, they should honor the deal and they should be there until the last moment of the seven-year contract. But in reality, conditions change.

And sometimes the guy that you think is going to be there for a long time, all of a sudden doesn't want to be there anymore. Hold on. Can I just, can I just jump in here? Is there not the voice of God? Sorry, is there not some extra sensitivity due to the market? And what I mean by that is this is a market that had a team. They lost their team. They got their team back.

They've dealt with other fan bases getting on them. They've dealt with players. They've dealt with anybody saying people don't want to be in Winnipeg. And for a while there, they were able to say, look, people do. Now Connor Hellebuck goes. And there's probably also a part of that fear in the back of their minds that he's not going to be the only one. Because Kyle Connor was also on that U.S. team, he could be a guy to follow. Mark Sheifley might look around and say, what the hell am I doing here?

Like Will Smith and the Fresh Prince of Bel Air at an empty room and say, maybe it's time for me to go to. Like maybe there's that concern from people in Winnipeg, too. In this case in particular. I don't have a great point. I don't think that is up front. But I do think that's a fog that Jets fans carry. I think that's a fog that all fans that have lost a sports team will carry with them. Could this happen again?

I don't, again, like, I don't think like that's the primary reason. for the pushback from Winnipeg Jets fans? I get it. I think it's to Greg's point. Your guy wants to leave. For whatever reason is, your guy wants to leave, but I do think there is always that fog when a team has left and come back. What if it happens again?

And I think you could let your mind wander and see a cascade, and I think this is why Kevin Shevoldaeoff wants to make a trade for players that help them today because if it's for futures. Then all of a sudden, Mark Schifley says, I signed this contract with that goalie in net. And Kyle Conner can say, I sign my contract with that goalie in net. Or Gabe Velardi would say, you know, before I sign another contract,

I really like to have that goalie in net. But I think it's part of the fog, but I don't think it's front and center for Jets fans. But that's why the door's open, baby. He could walk right back in and they will all do a big group hug and get back on the ice and contend together. No, I think your last point is the important one, Merrick, which is that, you know, these guys signed up for a certain thing. And that certain thing could easily just be having Connor Hellowbuck in net. And if that condition changes, that could be as much of an influence in what Kyle Connor and Mark Shaltley want to do as anything else. I do think two things, though, to your point, though, Zach.

Like, the first is that the NHL system is still set up in a way that if you traded Connor Hellebuck for a collection of 21-year-olds, those 21-year-olds, those 20s, 21-year-olds can't do anything but be Winnipeg Jets until it is time for them to be unrestricted. And that is still the NHL system. It is still games to allow teams like the Jets that might not be in the same desirable locale as, say, like the Panthers or someone else, to retain their players until they can't. The second thing is, if I'm a Jets fan and I'm worried about, say, the stability of my franchise, I'm probably much more worried about the cap going up to $150 million in a few years than I am about Connor Hullabuck leaving. And I'm a little bit worried about where the finance and looking around my room.

Yeah, the floor more than anything else, Merrick, and looking around my arena and wondering where those revenue streams are coming from to keep my team competitive as the cap skyrockets and teams like Winnipeg start to struggle with how they're going to stay competitive financially in this league. Just as an aside to that, you know what? You know who's got players locked up at really good numbers for a long time and may face the same thing? Stanley Cup champions. Carolina Hurricanes. If this gap keeps growing exponentially, all of a sudden, like Nick DeLorea, they're going to have to pay $12 million to come back just so they can make the floor. Anything more on Hala Bucks?

I want to get in some Dylan Larkins stuff here, but go ahead. But the difference is is that the Carolina Hurricanes have a secret weapon named Tom Dundon, who will grind you into sawdust. before he pays you more than he believes he needs to pay you. So they have that going for them, which is nice. Listen, before we move on, I did a little arc. And where do you see this hell of buck thing going in the next couple weeks? Trade.

Trade. Before the season starts? That I don't know. Because, like, that's the next pressure point. It's funny. I was talking to someone from a team yesterday about this. We're talking about, like, when you make the deal, when things get real, when players reevaluate. And he said, just wait for like a couple of weeks into October.

again when guys start to miss paychecks he said like that that then becomes another pressure point or you know wait to see you know which which team falls out or maybe wait for the injury or wait for whatever but I do think he'll be I do think he'll be traded so far Connor Hallibuck has since the announcement that he's asked for a trade behaved as we expected a player of his import

and him specifically to behave and he didn't show up the camp but I don't think he didn't expect him really to based on how he feels and his reasons for asking for a trade in the first place. It's going to be tough. Like my family's getting threats, but I'm going to go to camp. Like, no. And Kevin Shevoldaft said exactly what we all thought that he was going to say. Like so far everybody in this act, okay, and this is still early.

Like this play isn't closed yet. And I am king, Curtin. Everybody has played their role as expected. Okay, the twists came early and now we've established the players and we've established the actors here and everybody is playing their role accordingly. I think it's going to happen after the start of the season. I think there needs to be some level of pressure on Hallibuck to maybe broadness horizons. And I think there needs to be some pressure on a team to maybe up their ante. Like if the devil's start the season like losing seven of nine and their say percentage is 750, like don't you think maybe the.

all of a sudden they're like, sunny is maybe picking up that phone and calling Manitoba. Jake Allen's like, can I get my goalie coach back? The guy that I like that. Don't you think there's an Olympian somewhere on the roster?

You know, there was this guy who stopped like 50 shots. The Jack Hughes and pressure returns. You know, we won gold medal in Milan and I don't know. I feel like that guy might be an upgrade over what we have. All right, Dylan Larkin. No details, no reasons,

but I'm here. There. Dylan Larkin spoke today. You and I didn't get a chance to watch this because I don't think the video is streamed in the same way that the Shevled-Diaf thing was. But I was curious. I'm curious to find out afterwards. If anyone straight up asked him, was this a personal beef with Steve Iserman?

And if so, if he's not there anymore, you didn't rescind the trade request. He said he won't talk about why. And said, like, and even speculate, he may never talk about why. Sure. Okay. We'll see. We'll see. Listen, I expect there's going to be some candor at some point from Connor Hellebuck about why.

He's already kind of talked about it with the abuse of his wife and stuff online. Like, that's it. That's the reason. If you read the tea leaves, okay, you're Dylan Larkin. You're the captain of the team. You're bagging out. And all the reports are that you're bagging out because he had some personal beef with the team going back to your previous contract negotiation. I'm not saying that you owe me or owe you any explanation,

but don't you just, can't you just drop a breadcrumb for the fans that have supported you for as long as they've supported you as to why you are turning your back on the franchise now as the captain of the team? But what if that, what if that breadcrumb is, I'm sick of losing and we're not getting any better.

It stinks here. That's honestly the cleanest thing that he could say. Like, that's, like, we all, are you going to tell me that a Red Wing fan would look at that and be like, oh man what a what a dick like can't believe that he said that there would be there would be no there would still be the captain quitter stuff there would still be no no no no no there would be merrick no what there would be merrick is what we've already seen from red wings fans which is they say you know

now they're you know now it's dill larkin in the hot dog suit going and we're all looking for the guy who did this like there's a certain amount of redwings fans that believe that he is part and parcel to why this team has struggled and not made the playoffs do you believe that because i don't because i don't as I think this, I think, I think, I think, yeah, I still think this is, this is composition. Dylan Larkin is one player, a pretty profound player and a really important player. But I still think that on a Stanley Cup team, Dylan Larkin is your perfect 2C. Problem is he's on the Detroit Red Rings where he's forced his shoulder a one C load and to place everything on like, Dylan Larkin needed to be better.

He's like, that's Dylan Larkin. And he's an awesome hockey player. And the Four Nations, he might have just been the best player in the entire tournament for that spell of a week and a half or whoever long. long it was. But Dylan Larkin, I don't think anyone can't expect to put a team on his back and say, we're going to the playoffs here, boys. To me, that was composition and that rests right at the foot of a feat of the general manager. Yeah, no shit.

Like, the reason that the Red Wings missed the playoffs for as long as they've missed the playoffs is because they had a general manager whose plan never manifested in anything substantial as far as building a foundation there. He's a guy that was piecemilling together veteran cast. and unrestricted free agency while hoping for a high draft pick to a materialized that never did. Like it's it's not on Dylan Larkin that they've been as bad as they've been or as, let me rephrase that. They've been as mediocre as they've been because they've actually not been bad enough.

Not bad enough to see the Eiser plan do with fruition. But do you think, so he sits down, he talks to the media, he gets the captain's stripped from him. Like, do you ultimately think this leads to him ending up in Minnesota or is it going to kind of kind of be a situation where the team is going to keep him on the roster and have him be a part of it and we're better with him than without him. The problem is, in any trade for Dylan Larkin, because, you know, funny, I was talking to Kevin Allen on the program about this yesterday. Oh, man.

They have, I know it's the best. I love Kevin. There's no center depth here. So coming back has to be a center. Minnesota, like Marco Rossi last year in the Quinn Hughes deal to Vancouver. Yeah. who are the centers or even just the center that Minnesota is going to surrender in this deal?

I think that's the first thing you ask because they've got, you know, J.T. Comfort and then bless him, Marco Casper, who I still think is going to be a really good player and a really good center, but he's not there yet. Yeah. So who's the center coming back? That's what I keep asking about Minnesota.

Minnesota's problem is they don't have centers. And if they did, maybe we'd have a Quinn Hughes contract right now, but we don't. So let me pause on Queen Hughes because I was just, I had this thought and I was going to keep it to myself until Julian McKenzie, our friend from the athletic, put it out into the world and prayed for people not to aggregate it. And I will not, I don't think this counts as aggregation because I had the same thought. Wouldn't the Minnesota Wilde's problems be solved by trading Queen Hughes for Dylan Larkin? Well, you, yeah. But the thing is anyone you're trading him,

anyone you're trading Quinn Hughes to knows you're getting them until the end of this season. And that's it. Ah, but that's when the new plan goes. No, the new, the Michigan plan. He stays in Detroit for three years until Jack goes to Detroit in 2030. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, overall from the University of Michigan as well because they have no centers.

And Quinn Hughes finds himself in a situation where he goes from one team with no centers to another team with no centers. But I've, trust me. He's close to his brothers. But he is inching, he is inching closer forever and ever. Like a little snail, just a little snail leaving a slime trail across North America. Vancouver to Minnesota now into Michigan. It's not going to happen.

But I did have that thought. and Julian had that thought, and I thought we would both put it into the world. Hey, before we get it, I want to talk about salary bands here and goaltenders, I want to get your thoughts on this. I have an interesting conversation with someone about it last night. Here's something that I know you will love Greg,

and it is this, Mike Halford, Jason Brough, joining our roster of shows in Vancouver under the Daily Faceoff Vancouver banner. Halford and Brough debuts on Monday, September the 28th. The guys will be live on Daily Faceoff Vancouver's YouTube channel

Monday to Friday 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. PST, where you were a weekly guest, I believe. And they've already reached out. We'll figure out something. I love talking to those guys. I always say that outside of talking to you on this show, like that was my favorite radio hit that I did every week, was just hopping on for a half an hour and knowing it was going to be an adventure. And an adventure because they are, they're really smart and they're really interesting. interested in in topics in the sports and angles to stories that others aren't and and it's always a fun time talking them I'm so happy that they I am too gig I'm happy it's here and there is I know that I will be there's some of my favorite sports

content to consume because I love they're great with those boys how those boys approach the game great to call them teammates I'm glad to have them board there's only one thing that I would change and I don't think they would want to with the new show on the nation network, DFO Vancouver, the curtain bloggers. They should bring it back. Come on, bring it back. Old school. So we could have a universe with like curtain bloggers, MFSW, like everything is going old

school. Welcome back to 2011, folks. It's 2010. Isn't it better than the MCU was just started? you know, we're all feeling better about life. Come on. Tyler versus Taylor. We're following all season love for the draft.

Before you get the salary bands. Yeah, let me get the bands here. I got like 10 minutes left with you. Go. I know. Oh, Houston. Houston. Let's do Houston.

Your piece is excellent. ESPN.com. Check out Greg's piece on Houston slash Austin. Go. Yeah. So myself, Ryan Clark, Kristen, Chilton put our heads together and put together a sort of why Houston

or maybe why Austin. kind of asked questions things you can read on ESPN.com. The Houston thing's very, I found out a couple

things about the Houston thing that I think are really interesting. A lot of us when they were like Houston or Austin were like, okay,

but where did Austin come from? Like the Freakin family is based in Houston, all their operations are in Houston. It was Houston, Houston, Houston, Houston is the fourth or sixth largest TV market.

Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money. Money.

Money. Money. the money monies. There are plenty of cities that have money. Why Austin? Well, I've come to realize, Merrick. Yeah. Austin came into the conversation

as a viable second option to make sure that Houston felt a little pressure. Look, you still have to build the arena. You still have to get the stuff past to get all the infrastructure things, that you need to get a team to Houston. You still have to get the sweetheart deals from the city in order to make this happen

and not make it a financial boondoggle for yourself, if it's an ownership group. So how do you do that? You do it through the miracle of competition. And so since it's only one ownership group trying to make this happen, Austin kind of became a stocking horse. It became a, well, you know, if it doesn't work out here, there's a lot of tech money and NHL demographic. Money, the money, the money, monies.

And places to build arenas that are over in Austin. So just let it be known that we could go there too. But what happened here, and this is the great part, then they kind of started really looking at Austin. Like, wait a second here. This is a pretty good place to put out hockey team. Lots of money in Austin. Tech roads in Austin. That's right.

Tech companies buying sweets in Austin. Yes. Young people, vibes, South by Southwest. Orston. Beards. Craft beers. And so what happened was like this sort of like place that was supposed to just kind of be the one A to the one in the horse race for those who know about the ponies, all of a sudden became the most desirable location. Now the other thing I've learned, Merrick, is that, and we're going to learn a lot more next week.

Board of Governors is next Tuesday here in New York. We should learn a lot more about where this bid is at that time. from what I gather, to the surprise of no one, the most powerful owners, aka the oldest guys, aka the ones run of those teams that we all know, are Houston guys. They want to go to Houston. They know Houston is a huge market,

new television contract in the U.S. coming up, having Houston would be a very big deal. A lot of the newer owners, a.k.a. Ryan Smith. Maybe. Ryan Smith. What is Ryan Smith want?

Yeah. I don't know, man. Austin's pretty good. So we can go there. We can have great barbecue. We can bring all our tech friends there. Great tunes. The newer owners are Austin people.

Now, which group wins out? It may not ultimately matter because it all comes down to what Gary Betman and Bill Daly want to do with this league and where they want to go with this league. And if the freaking group says it's going to be Austin and they don't want to go to Austin, it ain't going to be Austin. You're not getting the team. But it isn't interesting. From what I understand about the landscape, that's the landscape. And it's going to be interesting to see how things shake out. Let me, and I encourage everybody to read this piece.

I read it this morning at ESPN.com. So who is it with you again? It was you. It was Ryan and Kristen and Ryan. And Kristen Shilton. Okay, excellent. On Houston slash Austin and the lens will focus a little bit next week at the B-O-G. I wanted to get this in here sort of under the wire.

I got like four minutes left with you. I had a conversation with someone last night about this. And we were wondering, because the money is the money. money. Okay, like all the money is like, oh, look what Carlson got. Look what Gocha got. Okay, yeah, that's cool. But for every $18 million contract, that means that there's less for someone else sort of down the line. And defensemen are getting paid, Calamacar, forwards are getting paid, goaltenders. Now, one thing that has spurned on big contracts for forwards and defensemen is, again, the threat of offer sheets. So right after Carlson, everybody went,

oh, oh, we don't want to be Pat for Beak. We don't want our guys to get offer sheet. Let's not get there. Okay? Just so everyone's clear, a goalie has never been offer sheeted in the NHL. Now, when you look at salary bans, forwards sky high, defensemen sky high. Are the goalies going to be the ones that miss the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow here?

Now, there's an interesting test case that's coming up, I think, and they have a Quinn Hughes situation to sort out in Minnesota, right now. But yes per whilst that is an RFA, RFA with arbitration rights, mind you. In July, if he's a defenseman, he's getting paid now. If he's a forward,

he's getting paid now. But not a whisper about him, really. There's no threat like, oh, we got to lock him up or Danny Breyer is going to get himself a backup goalie or a 1A or 1A, 1B situation

with Dan Vladar. Do you think goalies might be the ones left holding an empty bag of coins it's possible and i think also the thing you have to realize is the nature of the position in 26 which is that tandoms are in and you know there's an yeah and there's an idea that you're going to spread out that money in between a couple of good goalies you're going to do just as well as you as you're going to do if you have a franchise guy with some exceptions obviously so you know it's not like the colorado avalanche can be like we're going to spend $120 million and we're going to spread it between Cal McCar and another guy.

We'll play when Calamacar doesn't. Like, it doesn't work that way. It's only one guy. I think teams look at the position in a different way and especially when you look at, you know, the success of the Carolina Hurricanes this past year. Like, the team in front of them is much more important in the goal tender in certain situations.

So essentially, and I don't, I think you'd be honest something there. Is like, is the goalie position locked at 8. What does the hell of a buck make? 8.5? Like, is the goalie position lock there? Well, I mean, it'll go up by the nature of all salaries having gone up under this rising cap. Do you think Wollstead is getting more than that?

Because listen, if they were, I don't know. Honestly, I'm really curious about this. I know it's a bad talk radio answer. I give a lot of them. And here it is. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm really, ever since this conversation last night, I can't stop thinking about it.

I don't know if he is or not. And I think until a goalie gets off or she, cheated, which has never happened. I don't have you even thought about it before. Then nothing's going to change. I think a lot of it, Merrick will come down to the team's own predicaments, right?

Like, would not paying this player what he's looking for cause us more strife than if we paid him? You know, like the Dallas Stars didn't want to be searching for another goalie when they have, you know, Jake Ottinger. So they paid Jake Ottinger. You know what I mean? So I think a lot of it's going to be,

You're going to have your tippy top guys like Chichikin and Vasselsky and others that are going to get their money because they're franchise guys and amongst the best players in the world. And then you're going to have teams. They're just like, look, either we pay this guy or we try to piecemeal it together with, you know, Joseph Wall and goalie B. You know, like it's going to be a lot of sort of that type thing happening to. Before I let you go, I want to play a clip for you from yesterday really quickly here because I did think of you when I heard it. I'm like, oh, this is like your chocolate's my peanut butter for Greg Wyshinsky. Here's the key to Cooch who are off on hockey IQ. The game now is a lot faster, but dumb.

And I think that's all I can say. Yes, it is faster, but it's very dumb. A low IQ. In what way, Cooch? The hockey way. The hockey way. If there was ever a better way, to describe this very show

the dumb and a hockey way. Oh yeah, there's dumb and then there's hockey dumb. Welcome to this property here. He's the perfect guy to say it because he's a freak. He plays like nobody else. Like nobody else plays the same way that Nikita Kutrov plays.

Like it must be, we've talked about this before, it must be a cool feeling for your head to say, I want to do this and your body say, okay, let's do it. Or a lot of times athletes are like,

your head is saying, do this, and your body's like, yeah, not a chance. not a chance or think this way and nobody does outside of Kutrov. Yeah, I mean, he's talking about it in sort of a cerebral way. But my first thought when I saw that quote was like, yes, we are talking about a sport in which I am trying to put a rubber thing in a net and your stick is on my back and I'm going to punch you in the face because of it. See, that is an inherently dumb sport.

He's not saying that. Yeah, I'm saying that. No, no, I get that. Trust me. And as someone who's watched it for a million years, I don't disagree. But I think that he looks at hockey. I mean, and Pavel Datsuk was the same way, and I could argue that Mary Alamu was the same way.

I think he looks at it like it's a puzzle. And also the thing about Kuchrap that's so unique is he looks at it as a puzzle and he looks at it as it's my job out there to fool everybody. Like part of him is like, I'm going to go out there like a conjurer or like a magician. And it's my job to make you think one thing while I do another. I mean, every player is really doing that. but he takes it to like an artistic level. Would you agree with that on Kuturoff?

And a sidebar to all of this too. And Julian Breezeball was asked about this as well, general manager of the Tampa Bay Lightning. What's his number going to be? Yeah, his number is going to be astronomical. No, I think that sometimes hockey is an intricate jigsaw puzzle of a lighthouse that you find at your vacation home that you and your family do when it's raining outside.

And I think sometimes hockey is the puzzle where the cut out of the cow is where you put the cow. And the cut out of the pig is where you put the pig. And they have these giant wooden knobs on the cow and the pig. So you can pick it up with your big dumb hand and put it where it belongs. That's hockey. Let's grab that clip, Zach, and save it forever. Because if, oh, oh, oh, do you have two seconds?

Yeah, sure. Okay. can we get the Logan Thompson tweet up? Oh, yeah. For Greg from Sammy who works at AP covering the Washington Capitals.

This is great. Is that going to get it up here? Yeah, so here is. So Sammy Sleber who writes for AP. I asked Logan Thompson of finishing fourth in Vesna voting last year motivates him. Quote,

I don't really think so anymore. The GMs make that vote. And I know there is one GM that probably won't give me any votes ever. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about Caps hockey. You don't need

a decoder ring to know that he's talking about Kelly McCriman of the Vegas Golden Knights. Now in fairness, Kelly McCriman is in the Western Conference. Probably doesn't get to watch the Capitals all that much. Probably doesn't feel like he's really educated on how well Logan Thompson is playing. I'm sure there's

something personal inherent in that Merrick. It's just that, you know, his focus is more on who's playing well in the Pacific Division, I'm sure. Do you think that that again like here we are in September we're talking about Vesna voting should the GM like Brian Burke's point about Vesna voting was always why did the GMs vote on it we make more mistakes with goaltenders than anybody

why do we vote on this thing and we know the GMs always just vote on it based on wins whoever's got the most wins yeah that guy wins the Vesna wins is the most important that goal he's got the most wins he gets the Vesna trophy should it be like should there be like a sort of unique cabal of like Kevin from Ingoal and Valacat from like a unique that people that like really understand the position to vote on this thing or am I just taking this way too seriously. Are you saying that if you gave it to the writers who vote for several other awards that we would simply just do the same thing the GMs do.

You are much too, you are much too burdened. You are much too burdened already to add another or later. And just because Goldie is such a unique position. It is a unique position. And, you know, I think the writers have done a really good job of kind of pushing forward with how we assess, say, like, best defensive forward. Like, it used to be who has the highest face-off win percentage. I don't think it's like that anymore. I think that there is a lot of scrolling through natural stat trick to figure out exactly, like, where the fancier numbers are leading us to figure out who should be the best defensive forward.

I feel like the same thing could happen if you gave us the Vesna voting. I feel like it's going to go beyond wins and save percentage and goals against average to really look at the numbers and find out who's doing what and how well. You know what happened? Everybody would call Kevin Woodley and Steve Vallicat and say, who should we vote for? So just give it to Kevin and give it to Valicat. Let those two guys decide. guys, they've got the numbers.

They'll decide. Valacette's numbers can be off the wall sometimes, by the way. There are certain times when I've talked to Stephen and like, there are goaltenders whose traditional stats are garbage. There was one year when Jordan Bittington's numbers were atrocious and like Valacette's like he's the fifth best goalie in the NHL. I remember that. That's insane.

And so it could also lead to some off the wall stuff. If you think you're pissed off because the writers didn't put your guy up for the Norris when you think he should be for the Norris, wait until the magic number crunching machine in Steve Valakette's office is like, oh, by the way, yes. Rico Dawes should win the Vezina this year. Let's bracket that conversation and pick it up another time. You have a great rest of your day, and we'll look forward to talking to you next week, my man, Greg.

Anytime, thanks. There is, from his new studios in New York City. And a reminder here, this fan moment is a presentation of Coca-Cola, being a hockey fan is a commitment, the superstitions, the chance, the pacing, the standing through overtime because sitting somehow feels wrong. Whether you're making the climb to the nosebleeds, rallying your section to start the wave or keeping one eye on your game and another on the out of town scores, true fandom puts in the work. Every shift deserves an ice cold. Coca-Cola fan work is thirsty work. And we talked about Halford and Bruff being on the network now.

Also a brand new property launching on our Hockey Fight's YouTube channel is the Sean Avery Show. Here he is the aforementioned Sean Avery. Sean, it's been a while. How you've been? I'm good. I'm good. How are you doing? Beautiful, nice studio you got there.

Fancy new studio. My backdrop needed a fresh coat of paint and we got it. So there's a couple of things that I wanted to get into. There's one thing that I've always wanted to ask you about and have never had a chance and I want to get there. But in the meantime, we're just having a conversation about Houston versus Austin. And I was always told I've had a couple of. players tell me about Austin.

And it's like the sneaky place where players go when they don't have time to go to like Cabo. They'll go to Austin. It's a great time. Nobody knows they're a hockey player. They can hide. They can be invisible and do whatever debauchery they want for the weekend that they're off. Maybe it's All Star.

Is that accurate about Austin? And is there an even better sneaky hiding place for hockey players than Austin? I've never been to Austin. And I don't really hear good things about Austin. Not at all. Like you see like every now and then like pictures pop up of like hockey players parting in Austin. I mean, it's great live music. It's great for live event.

I know there's a lot of tech bros there. There's a lot of cash there too. But a lot of players that I talk to seem to really like Austin. What was your sneakaway getty? Sneaky getaway spot then. The two bunch of palms and Palm Springs. What's that? Sinatra's old hangout.

Do you have a favorite Sinatra? Do you have a favorite Sinatra? story? I heard a great one a while ago with Bert Reynolds. I don't, but I have a good Michael J. Fox story. I was at the Chateau Marmon on Monday night after the Emmys. Yeah. And MJ's in a wheelchair now, and he was getting helped in on the wheelchair. And as he, as he, as he, as he, as he, as he, as he came by me, he looked at me. And he stopped. And he. And he stopped. he kind of put his hand up. I said, yeah, it's me.

And I said, you're the fucking greatest. You're the greatest. And he kept going. And, wow, it was a pretty incredible moment because, you know, he's, he knew. He's amazing. He's amazing. Yeah, yeah. No, he's, he's the guy.

Speaking of acting really quickly, what I was reminded of last night and I went back and watched the, the fight scene. When you in the Rocket movie played Bob Dill, was that the beginning of the acting bug for Sean Avery, reenacting the, as they call it, the pickling of Bob Dill in that famous Rangers Montreal game? Yeah, it's really interesting because I wasn't playing for the Rangers yet at that point. And it's so wild to think about because was that foreshadowing something, multiple things at the same time? Pretty incredible.

And I got to tell you that movie, you watch that movie today, it holds up. It's awesome. It's good. It's good. They did a very good job with it. You know what? It's shot really well. Like one of the things that I always sound like I'm really old for some reason whenever I talk about this.

And you see this in the way that that rocket movie was shot. One of the things now with buildings being so well lit, there's no more shadows on the ice. And I was watching those scenes again with you like, you know, chasing rocket and the two punches and then jumping in the penalty. box and I'm just like shadows like shadows and hockey used to be such a cool thing the buildings weren't as lit as well as they are now they're all beautifully lit

but like you lost something when the shadow game vanished from hockey but then I always feel like I'm an old timer complaining about it no that's a that's an incredible piece of I mean you're you're a thespian on on a high level of course what you call me

obviously I think a a thespian I think it was shot on film too and that's the difference. Yeah. It's really good. Now, listen, I've only got a couple of moments with you. I wanted to, we're going to have you on like plenty, like being part of the family here now.

There's one thing, Sean, and by the way, Sean Pearson says hello. I was talking to old Dunbarton Pals from many years ago last night. You were on the ice during one of the most infamous incidents in the history of the Ontario Hockey League. Windsor Spitfries all the Windsor Arena

against your own sound. And I think you had already, I think you'd speared someone and they were already in a fight. And then Jeff Coogel goes absolutely banana sandwich coming off the Windsor bench. I think Adam Mayer had to come off your bench. And I think you were the only guy on Owen Sound,

even though you were engaged in a fight, who tried to actually get at Coogel when Coogel comes off the bench and just loses it and ends up getting suspended for the remainder of the season. I think he played like four games for, Sue St. Marie the following year, but what do you remember from this debacle in the OHL?

By the way, as we're watching, here comes Adam Mayer. So Mayor jumps on and then Kugel comes on and then it's off to the races. Here's Kugel for those that haven't seen this. What do you remember, Sean? It was incredible. I'll tell you what I remember.

The great late Ray McHalvey when we got to David Branch's office because we had to have in-person hearings. Yeah. It was the first time in my life and one of the greatest... Talk about a... He should be in the Hockey Hall of Fame, by the way,

Ray McAulvey. What a builder. He looked at me and he said, and this was the nicest, most beautiful man. One of the greatest I've ever met in hockey. He said, you don't say a goddamn word unless I say you can.

And we walked to... in and I got 12, I think I got 12 games, which was a pretty hefty suspension. That's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was out of control. That was a hell of a night. Man, they, that league, that was a tough league back then. I'll tell you that. It was. And like, you look at, it's funny, too, because it may seem like five minutes ago for a lot of people. And then I catch myself and I go like, I remember that. And that was, what was that? like 1999? Like,

yeah, probably. That was a long time. Yeah, so it was like late 90s when you're playing in the Ontario League. 97. Was it 97? Yeah.

It was so different. Like the game now is so different. I always hate to be the guy. I don't want to be like, you know, stuck in time. It's just like complaining. Oh,

the old days were always better because I still think there's things in the game now that you can glean. But what's still interest Sean Avery? about hockey today. Like where is your main point of focus or interest in the game as someone that played it? I love beautiful players. I love Alex Newhook. I love Maclin Celebrini.

I love guys that are going to the mat that are coming in and playing hard and play big-time games when it matters. I think that that's the most interesting thing to me. and then just the consistency of like who's there every single night during the regular season. Who doesn't take nights off? I talk about this Will Cooley in New York. Somebody the other day was telling me, oh my God, Will Cooley. I said, Will Cooley. Will Cooley plays one at every five games.

If I had Will Cooley's size and his skill level, I'm not interested in guys that show up every once in a while. I want you every single night. I was talking to Brandon Pruss this morning. I was watching an old game. Brandon Press fought twice in Philly in the first period. Second fight was against Wayne Simmons, and he just beat the brakes off of him.

Like, that's what I'm looking for. I want to find that. And I want, you know, the teams that I get drawn to, like Tampa Bay, Florida, Carolina's won my heart over it. I want dogs. Yeah. Let me quickly before I let you go here, One of the things, I mean, you just sewarded the Atlanta Thrashers.

Like, there's some people like that one year, they finally make the playoffs. Their star, Ilya Kovych spends the entire series chasing you around the ice. I've talked to Don Waddell about it. I'm like, how frustrated were you down? Like, here's your star player and he can't do anything because he's chasing Avery all over the place. How did you get him to that level? How did you get him to just like forget, like, scotch the series? You had Kovilchuk twisted up like a pretzel.

chasing you around. Yeah, I'll tell you what's the most interesting thing about that, and it kind of relates to what we were talking about earlier. After game one, I didn't have any points, and I was playing on a line with Brendan Shanahan, and he was so relaxed at Morningscape the next day, and I was a bag of nerves, and he just looked at me and he said, you know, you don't win a series in one game. And we came back, and I scored in game two, and I know. never forgot that in the sense like you don't take nights off but but the game comes to you if

you're attacking the game and I just want to see consistency and I think a lot of it lacks in coaching um I you know I think the coaching and the interaction that coaches are having with players today I'm watching hard knocks with Seattle Seahawks right now and like That's how you talk to players, you know, their entire coaching staff. And it seems like football connects. They do it more. There's that relationship level of, like, driving players. And again, it comes back to the consistency.

I just want to see you guys play hard. Well, listen, on that, we'll let you go. Sean, congratulations on the new program. Debut September 23rd, new episodes every Wednesday on the Hockey Fights YouTube channel. Thanks so much to this. And Jeremy Taggart says hello. and he reminded me of a pickles and olives story from when you guys lived in Manhattan Beach together.

Maybe we'll get into that one day. We'll see you, Sean. Take care. Be well. There he is. Sean Avery. Fertile ground. Very much looking forward to that property, launching on the 23rd of September

at our hockey fights YouTube channel. Really quick before you wrap up here and get a couple more of thought. By the way, Zach, have you ever seen that, Jeff Kugel situation? before or am I really dating myself? Because that was a massive deal. No. In junior hockey once upon a time.

The boys and I here in the production suite, we all watched it together when you asked me to grab it. So we were watching it and freaking it out about when he comes off the bench and sucky bombs the guy and then starts skating backwards. It's almost like slap shot s. 100%.

I remember watching. I'm like, I cannot, and that's at the old Windsor Arena. So it's not, the WFCU Center is a much better rank. But the All Windsor Arena was a tiny barn. It was just a tie-in. And everyone's like right on top of you and the fans are going crazy and he's chasing

Chris Minard all over the ice. But so, okay, wild one. Getting the bird. Flipping the bird. It's unreal. But like these are your home fans. What do you? Anyway.

That's a nice part about it. Before we close out the program, we've got one last off-season move for you. Nation gear is having an end of season sale of 15% off the entire off-season social club collection for a limited time. This isn't just your average fan gear either. the collection is made with premium athletic wear, built for wherever your season takes you, whether that's a round of golf,

a patio beer, a weekend away, or anywhere you feel like being comfortable and looking good. The off-season is almost over. So grab yours while you can. 15% off the entire off-season social club collection for a limited time. Anything we left on the table?

Zacharup, before you wrap up? No, I think that was it for me. By the way, if people want to go and watch a on video after. Uh-oh. That one just reminded me. I don't know if you've ever seen. You can search it up by searching Rory Smith Unchained.

He is the brother of Riley Smith. He ended up going on and becoming a fighter in the NLL. And he was playing for the St. Michael's College buzzers, I believe, at that time. Out of St. Mike's playing against the Markham Waxers. And Chris Tannab would have been on that team. Oh, geez. The puck gets dumped in the corner behind the goaltender, and he goes from center ice and takes a run at the goaltender,

who's standing in front of the net and ignites a brawl. And there's more fights that ensue from that. But Rory Smith unchained reminded me of. Lacrosse fights are wild. This was in hockey, though. Like this was before he became an NLL player. As a general statement, lacrosse fights are insane. Yes.

Well, it's just a street fight. It's a street fight. It is. Let's get crazy. Get the buckets and masks off and then the guys, they go for it. Yeah. I've been in three. How'd you do?

How'd you do? One of them terrible. It was my first one ever. Didn't know what was going on. Cade was already off and I was getting fed before I could realize what I was supposed to do, which was drop my gloves. That would have been a good start. The next two, pretty good.

The one I did real well in and then the other one was kind of just back and forth. And then we both went down. but that was all right it's an insane experience though because like hockey you if anybody's been in a hockey fight I've been in only one but the one I was in you know you're kind of grappling around for a little bit and then you find your stance and then you kind of get into it there's obviously probably more nuance to it than that but that's how I did it yeah lacrosse is just the cage has come off so quickly yeah because of the way they're designed so you just pop it off and then you just stand there and as long as you've got a good good

base, you're in a good position and you just swing. Like it's rockem sock and robots for the most part. Yeah. It's, uh, they're wild. I mean, it's a, it's a great. I always thought that it would, they catch on huge because, listen, it's such a great complimentary sport for hockey to play. Yeah.

I always thought that lacrosse and who knows, maybe somewhere down the road. I don't know. The NLL is tried with various TV networks to really get this thing to catch on. I always thought it was a natural. I really did. I really thought it was a natural. and listen, it's pretty big in the United States as well. I always thought that lacrosse was going to be like that sort of complimentary,

almost like summer sport that hockey fans would watch. Now, the NLL is played during the winter, but I always thought that would be like a great complimentary sport for hockey fans. Look, I'm biased, but it's a very, very fun sport to watch. I played it for as long as I could. I love playing it. It's violent. It's fast pace.

It's high scoring. It's very skilled. I know some hockey show and we're talking about lacrosse here. But okay, so let me drag it back into hockey then. So we put our two boys in lacrosse when they were young. They didn't stick with it. They played for, I think, two years. But you know what it taught them and they still do this to this day?

What's that? Keep their head up when they move. Oh, yeah. Because with lacrosse, the object of play is up here. Hockey gets down there. And you put your kid in lacrosse, he or she gets used to the object of play being up high and it forces them to keep their head up when they're running.

That's a good point. When they're moving. To me, that's the, like you're a hockey parent, your kids playing hockey, put him in lacrosse. Just to keep their head up for when hitting starts. That was the one thing too that we always talked about when I was talking about because I played soccer a little bit when I was a kid.

And then I ended up transitioning over to lacrosse, thanks to actually Liam Hamm, Julia, his husband, his dad. His dad was the one who convinced me to go over and play lacrosse with them. And it was the one thing he kept telling me and my dad, because I think at that time we're 9, 10 years old. And he's saying, it'll teach him to keep his head up. It's true.

We were getting into contact hockey at that point of minor hockey. And he was like, he'll learn how to keep his head up. Yep. Totally true. Totally right. Okay, excellent stuff, Zach, as always. On behalf of Zach Phillips, wrapping up here from the broadcast studios in downtown Toronto. And we're working on the sound.

Like, the sound is getting better. studios growing up, the training wheels are off, everything's shaping up great hockey seasons on the horizon. Thanks to Greg Woshensky, as always, for stopping by from ESPN and ESPN.com. And Sean Avery as well, September 23rd at our Hockey Fight's YouTube channel, the Sean Avery show will debut. And don't forget, Halford and Brough. We got them.

For you old schoolers, the curtain bloggers on the Nation Network on DFO Vancouver, starting on Monday. I look forward to having the boys here on this program and hopping on their show. Greg's a mainstay and has been for years on that show. So that will continue. Great to have them in the mix. And more announcements about what we have planned this season here at Daily Faceoff and the Nation Network in the days slash weeks to come.

Have a good rest of your day. Thanks so much for dropping by today. Whether you are watching us live on our Daily Face Off YouTube, watching an archive or listening wherever you get your podcasts, please like and subscribe, do all the fun things we always beg you to do Trust us, it helps. Have a great end to your day. Talk to you tomorrow.