The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Hockey Therapy ft. Shayna Goldman & Jonny Lazarus

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Jeff Marek is joined by Shayna Goldman and Jonny Lazarus to kick off the week on December 16, 2024 on The Sheet. Discussing the New York Rangers miserable weekend, another loss for the Buffalo Sabres, Dylan Cozens trade rumors, the Nashville Predators, and much more...SHOW INDEX(00:00) Intro(08:02) Bag Skates(12:34) Trade Rumors(15:39) Shayna Goldman(47:00) Jonny Lazarus(1:04:21) Sam Rosen(1:07:20) Stephen Brunt(1:09:14) Closing Thoughts____________________________________________________________________________________________Up Close with Stephen BruntApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/trailer/id1784718713?i=1000680017895Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qQNAp0eleA4H3vuuWOZWp?si=196f81830f374255Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.ca/podcasts/1285b1e8-82fd-4d00-ae34-f48d596dd1ce/up-close-with-stephen-brunt____________________________________________________________________________________________Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it.

Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at one you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. I really hope you don't mind where we're going to start today before we get to the show. Shana Goldman standing by in a therapy session with Johnny Lazarus about the New York Rangers. Get into that in a couple of seconds. But I want to start off the show today by talking about something that's a little bit macabre, right? But I swear there's a pretty funny punchline at the end of it if you're into dark humor.

So today on the sheet blog at dailyfaceoff.com, I put in a note about Michael McCarron and the scary skate cut that he got in the Nashville-Dallas game last week. We've all seen these before. Last year, of course, Adam Johnson passed away after getting a skate cut to the throat. We've seen Clint Malarchuk, and we'll get to him in a couple of seconds. Richard Zednick as well. Richard Zednick, who, by the way, got his throat cut and then put on the neck guard and then took it off and was asked why. He said, well, what are the odds that it happens twice?

That's the mentality that we're dealing with here for, for some hockey fans. But I put in a note about throat guards and not the usual, should they be mandatory? Let's have the debate. Each side digs in their heels, players on this side and teams on the other side and it's personal choice versus protect the asset.

There's one voice to all of it that I've always felt needs to be heard in this one. And that is the voice of the fans, the voice of the people that have the nerve to, I don't know, pay for tickets. You know, people that have the nerve to buy merchandise, the people that have the nerve to, I don't know, watch the shows, buy the goods that the sponsors sell at the intermissions and the stop sets, watch the shows, buy the goods that the sponsors sell at the intermissions and the stop sets. Those people, the ones that actually keep this whole thing afloat. And here's the reason why I think fans' voices in this one means a lot more than as it relates to other hockey issues about gameplay.

One of the things that I always think about when I see a skate cut, and most recently Michael McCarron, the first thing I think about is what goes through a fan's mind? Like what would go through my mind if I were there watching that happen? What would have gone through my mind if I was at that game in England last year with Adam Johnson? What would have happened if what would have gone through my mind in 1989 if I was at that Buffalo Sabres St. Louis Blues game with Clint Malarchuk and Steve Tuttle Sabres St. Louis Blues game with Clint Melarchuk and Steve Tuttle of the St. Louis Blues. We've seen a lot of near misses in the NHL and we'd like them to stay near misses. But every time we see one, it gets scarier and scarier and the neck guard debate

raises its head. But I think as part of the entire conversation, because I don't think for one second that the NHL wants these types of gruesome injuries as part of their product. Not for one second. There are certain things you expect to happen when you go to a hockey game or perhaps suspect could happen. These are things of a violent nature. You expect huge body checks. You expect violent collisions. Maybe you expect to see the occasional fight. That's all baked into the pie, right? That's hockey DNA. That is part and parcel, all part of what goes into the game.

We see sites like hockeyfights.com. We have podcasts about them. There's tons of blogs about them. But there's no skatecut.com. There's none of blogs about them. But there's no skatecut.com. There's none of that because it's gruesome and nobody wants to see it. And I can only think of if I were in the stands watching this, what would have gone like how horribly disgusted would you have been to see that even to see the possibility of it? You know, one of the scariest things you see is when a player gets a skate up high and he grabs his neck and skates as fast as he can to the bench because

you know what's going through his head at that moment. And it's frightening to contemplate. Now, thankfully, Michael McCarron is going to be okay, but somewhere down the road, there's going to be another. And I think that the fans need to have a voice in this and the fans overwhelmingly don't want this as part of what they pay for there's not one fan that cheers this fans are aghast at seeing things like that like violently ill when you see moments like this through the blog because i'm curious what you think about this. Are you on the same side as the majority of us in that this is not something that anybody wants to see? And as part of the conversation, I think players, and they're the ones that are going to have to, you know,

they're the ones that are going to have to make the big decision here on mandatory net guards or not, should at least consider what a fan pays for and what that person wants to see. Now, if you like macabre jokes, if you like macabre stories, let me tell you this one. This was told to me by Clint Malarchuk. Clint, by the way, and you'll hear everyone say the same thing. Brian Brooke, we just mentioned him last Friday, and Brian said, what a wonderful guy. They worked together in Calgary. Clint Malarchuk, when he was a net minor with the Buffalo Sabres in 1989, in a very gruesome moment,

had his throat cut by the skate of Steve Tuttle of the St. Louis Blues. The blood was instant. The blood was gushing. You can still remember the announcer saying, get the camera off, get the camera off. And we were all thinking the same thing at that time. Are we really going to see this happen during a game? Now, two people saved his life, Jim Pizzatelli and Peter James. Pizzatelli, the longtime trainer of the Buffalo Sabres, a Vietnam vet and Vietnam medic. And Peter James, who is a Buffalo Sabres doctor, saved his life.

I've always wondered what would have happened if that skate cut would have happened in the second period with the long change and the longer skate to the bench. Would there have been enough time for Jim Pizzatelli to have sealed up that cut or put pressure on that cut before Clint Malarchuk had something awful happen to him and all those fans and players and officials and coaches, etc., etc., witness it.

So I talked to Malarchuk a number of years ago, and he said, Do you want to hear something funny? I said, Sure, Clint, let me have it. Clint's got a dark sense of humor. I like him. He said, I came back too soon.

I wasn't ready for it mentally. And we all know this. He's documented this in his book, and he's talked about it often. But he said, when I came back, you know, one of the first games we played, or I played, was against the St. Louis Blues. And this is the era before cell phones and guys texting and guys calling and seeing each other all the time. Again, remember, it's 1989.

And Malarczyk said, we're in warm-up and we're skating around. Both teams warming up, skating around. And he said, I was skating down Center Ice Red Line and Steve Tuttle was coming the other way and we were going to cross. And he said, I hadn't seen him since the incident and he said Tuttle had this look in his eyes like holy smokes like are you okay I'm so sorry I didn't mean for any of this to happen and Malarchuk said to me before Tuttle could say anything I skated right up to him and I said geez Tuttle you're a cutthroat. Engine diffused.

Clint Waller-Chuck. He's one of a kind. Thanks for bringing me here today. Monday, December 16th, this is The She, Shannon Goldman in a therapy session with Laz coming up. Jeez, Tuttle, you're cutthroat. Who thinks about saying that?

Actually, maybe I would. Good on Clinton. A couple more things in the blog I'll draw your attention to. And at various points over the week, I want to sort of have conversations about one, the future of hockey and synthetic ice as it relates to ice costs. A PSA for coaches. This is one thing that's always bothered me. And it bothers me as a parent, damn it, because I got to pay for this.

Maybe you're a hockey parent as well. Bag skates. Bag skates for players. So they're done for a number of different reasons. One, usually a bag skate is there for punishment. Sometimes they're used for conditioning. Matt Nichol would always tell me how much he hates bag skates, specifically when the longtime strength and conditioning coach now works with the Ottawa Senators as his own gym in Toronto.

He said, first of all, it's a really bad idea to bag skate your team before a practice because you're just wrecking your practice because all your team is doing is learning how to play slow. That's it. And then they get to the game and all of a sudden why does everything seem so fast like well you guys are tired out before they practice said pat quinn always started up tempo if he's going to bag the guys he did it at the end but you know i i've i've watched this as a parent hockey parent before and i was having a conversation um with a minor slash youth hockey coach the other week and I thought I'd throw it in the blog and it goes like this. It really doesn't make sense if you're going to bag skate your team for punishment to use really expensive ice. $300, $400, $500, $600, $700 a sheet for an hour. Why

are you using that to punish your team or Or teach them a lesson about hard work. Just have them run stairs. For 30 minutes. Your ice is expensive. Don't make your punishment expensive. Use your ice for development. And play. And learning how to play the game.

Don't use it for punishment. That's too expensive. Stairs are free. If you want to do that with your team, use the stairs. That is your coaching PSA from yours. Truly someone who's never really coached a serious game, but I listen to people. I thought that was pretty intriguing. Coming up on the show in a couple of moments, Shannon Goldman from The Athletic and the Too Many Men podcast. We'll stop by Johnny Lazarus from Morning Cup of Hockey. We'll be here as well. Speaking of Morning Cup of Hockey, Chris Kelleher was on this morning.

What a great interview. He's the assistant general manager of the Minnesota Wild. And I'm waiting for it. It just seemed like everyone who went to BU was going to be on that show because of Colby, I swear. Everyone who had anything to do with BU is going to be on Morning Cup of Hockey. It's a great show. And Kelleher was great. I want to play a clip from that

a little bit later on as it relates to player development. As it relates to specifically younger players and being patient as they get to the NHL. The touchstone is David Juracek but you can also apply it to Marco Rossi and look how where Rossi is at now

and where we suspect David Juracek is going to get to. So we'll get to that clip coming up in a couple of moments as well. I want to play for you as well at some point. Molly Walker's interview with Sam Rosen on the New York Post Sports YouTube channel this morning. This one was excellent. We're going to play a clip a little bit later on, Molly talking to John Davidson. But it's great. And one of the moments that really caught me in the interview,

Molly was asking Sam about getting into broadcasting. And we all know this is the Legends last season calling games to the New York Rangers. And it's kind of sad that for the last season, he's got to call this team. And we're going to get to that in a couple of moments. But I thought it was really interesting. Sam talked about how he was a really good baseball player and he was captain of his teams and all that. But at a certain point, you realize, you know,

the pros are not going to be for me. And you make that decision. Then you say, what's next? And Sam said, well, I still wanted to stay around sports. I still wanted to stay around the game. Like every single question and answer from Molly to Sam was like just so rich and beautiful. I encourage all of you to go and have a listen and a look and hear Sam

and reflect back on his career as a play-by-play voice for the New York Rangers and some great times, some bad times, a lot of memory times, certainly some historical times as well, and just think what he has meant to the game. Also coming up on the show today, trade rumors. Trade rumors, Vancouver and the Rangers. Vancouver and Buffalo, the Rangers and Buffalo. What's happening with the New York Rangers?

Are they making a decision on their coach? Are they making a decision on their general manager? Are they making a decision on both? Who Are they making a decision on their general manager? Are they making a decision on both? Who could be coming? Who could be going? The Buffalo Sabres, as we know, as Elliot mentioned on the 32 pod and tweeted out as well, Terry Pagula meeting with the Buffalo Sabres today, nothing but a vote of confidence, which many of you cynics, and I count myself as one of them, look at and say,

oh, that's a kiss of death how many times have we seen it I believe in this group I believe in this staff oh geez oh geez that's up do we have Zach do we have the Lindy Ruff Ruff uh clip yes we do we can do it okay let okay so this is Lindy Ruff after a collapse against the Toronto Maple Leafs on Sunday. Have a listen to this one. How shocking is this team with some of the guys in there? I mean, I'm almost lost for words, obviously. It's on me to solve this.

This is the toughest solve I've been around, but it is on me to get these guys in the right place to win a hockey game and nobody else, just me. Thanks. You can read that a number of different ways. That is just the head coach diving on the grenade, falling on the sword, however you want to put it, and doing what a coach should do,

just draw all the attention to himself, maybe deflect it from the players, deflect it from the general manager, Kevin Adams, and taking it all on him. Or if you want to put on, and it's really interesting to play the read-in between the lines game with Lindy Ruff right now, is that him saying,

look, I'm the only one that can control this because nothing is going to happen up top. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes.

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Interesting. Elliot Friedman. And I know a little bit about Elliot. I've worked with him once or twice talking about Dylan Cousins and I think we're all wondering about Dylan Cousins right now just sort of spitball and Cousins and Byram

for Elias Pedersen I think we've all done this right? so what's the trade that can match here? there's drama here, there's drama there I was sitting around last night texting with people a lot of these right okay so what's the trade that can match here there's drama here there's drama there like i was sitting around last night texting with people a lot of these a lot of these trade ideas come from a an educated imagination let's say or educated by conversations like they don't just

come out of the blue trust me for anyone of any of the you know any of the the more serious people that you'll read and see and hear in hockey media. I was wondering about Capo Caco plus plus plus for Dylan Cousins. We all do it. We wonder where it's going to be going. But I don't think that any of these,

this is just in my head, come from absolutely nowhere. Johnny Lazarus coming up from Morning Cup cup of hockey coming up in a couple of moments, but in the meantime, a pleasure to welcome to the sheet maiden voyage for Shannon Goldman, of course, in the too many men podcast and the athletic Shana joins me today.

Hello, Shana. How are you? Oh, I'm great. Well, look at us reunited again. Isn't it beautiful everywhere I go? I'm just like, honestly, I'm just dragging you, like, to raise my credibility.

Like, I just need a credibility shot. It's like, all right, let's, we got to get Goldman in here. I need someone to make me look smarter than I really am. Nice PHF puck, by the way, over the shoulder. Thank you. Is that a new one? No, this is an old one. They just get, I keep moving them around.

I want to, like like change things up so it doesn't get a little bit uh stale over here ah okay very good well we do have i believe you have rebel league over your shoulder i got that one over my shoulder too like if you want to if you want to sort of do like the the hockey hipster by way of your library you know throw in a quick wha book and boost the there you go yeah you know Winnipeg Jets, Houston Arrows, and New England Whalers. Let me tell you about the Cleveland Crusaders and San Diego Mariners. Okay, so what is more interesting to you right now? I almost feel like we're just doing the Sabres Hour and the Rangers Hour,

but let's face it. These organizations are on fire right now. Which one is the bigger concern from your perch and which one do you see coming to any kind of either resolution or change? Okay, I'm going to say the Rangers are the bigger deal right now because they had true hopes of contention, right?

Like they were a couple of wins away from the Stanley Cup final last year, right, wrong or sideways. Did they deserve it? That's another conversation, but they were there. They're betting on right now players at a different time frame in their career compared to the Sabres, right there. They're betting on players as their second contracts. And in some cases, like Darlene, it's those third contracts, but it's a younger group. I think the Rangers are a much more

dramatic team with an owner who's much more inclined to push his managers along to make a move. And it doesn't seem like that's the case in Buffalo right now. So I would say they are the bigger story. They're the ones we're probably going to see more fireworks from. But I do think we should be putting the pressure on Buffalo without a doubt. Let's bracket Buffalo for a second and focus on the New York Rangers. All kinds of rumors this weekend. I'm sure that they popped up on your mobile devices all over the place. and focused on the New York Rangers. All kinds of rumors this weekend.

I'm sure that they popped up on your mobile devices all over the place and made their way to your ears and your conversations as well. Listen, it's New York, much like if it was Toronto or Montreal or take your pick, any of the sort of hot-button NHL cities. How do you think this one gets sorted out? Because, again, James Dolan could do anything. Dolan, as we've talked about before, could wake up tomorrow and everything can be completely different.

Or, as we've seen now, it's just kind of the same outside of the Jacob Trouba drama from last week. I don't know what needs to be done here. All I know is what I see, and it looks like a collection of players that have completely checked out. Like, glimmers here and there, like, attempted comeback against the Blues, but ultimately fizzling out.

Even the game they beat the Buffalo Sabres, listen, I took more negative away from that one from the New York Rangers, who probably should have, like, if there was ever a moment where this should have been a complete stomping of the Buffalo Sabres, that was the time for the New York Rangers, and they barely eked out a win in that one.

How does this one, I don't know, end, but what's the next chapter in this one for you? Is it a player move? Is it a coach move? Or is it a rare in-season general manager move why not a little bit of everything why not amp it up okay do you want to get like should we go dramatic like well hello welcome to the new show let's go yeah so here's because it's funny too because you're ready to go off like the the high the the the high meter uh uh diving tower i'm just like dipping my toe in the pool.

I'm like, maybe they hire a senior consultant around Chris Drury here. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. They're going in with a flamethrower, Al Pacino, Scent of a Woman style. No, I'm with you on that. A senior consultant, a senior advisor, someone to come in and settle the waters because the players clearly are unhappy and I think they're unhappy with everyone. And while you can look at it and say,

well, these players make millions of dollars, grow up, do your job, you would have a point, but you could also say, maybe handle things a little bit better because these are the consequences of their actions. So I would not be surprised if there was a move like that. But I think that there are fundamental issues with this roster

and I think there's fundamental issues with the coaching. Which one you want me to start with? Let's start with players. Let's start. Because I look at it and I say to myself, maybe the only thing they can really do here, even though they just moved Trouba and someone took on the full freight, the only thing they can do here is Capo Caco. What am I missing?

Well, I think he's one of the players you could move. Sure. If you're the Rangers, because there's a lot of no movement clauses and a lot of no trade clauses. And this is why those need to be leveraged better by general managers. If you're going to include those clauses, there needs to be some sort of, you know, give or take elsewhere. Right.

Because it can't be that they have a too long, too expensive and too tough to move contract, right? Like that's way too many problems that they have. I think that I'm interested in their defense a little bit. I think it could use more change because you're seeing right now you move Jacob Truba and he killed penalties. He played heavy minutes. He should not have played those heavy minutes, but they put them, put him in it. And now you look at guys like Ryan Lindgren. And that situation is very interesting to me because I feel like their hands are a little bit tied now. Because who else is going to take on those matchup minutes? Who else is going to kill penalties if you

move him unless you have a replacement at the ready for him, which who's to say they do but this is a player who's on a one year deal taking him to unrestricted free agency. I wonder if there's a different solution than saying we'll just ride this out to the end of the year. And then if he walks, he walks, right? Like, I wonder if something can change there, or to leave the player and try to change the coaching that I think is what's dragging him down as far as he's gone. So it's really tricky here, because it feels like they should make a move for another defenseman, maybe a lefty,

they could go for a ready. It really doesn't matter. Honestly, I think they need someone on the third pair that they can trust because I don't think they trust who they have. But, um, it was definitely the tipping point of the trade block.

Uh, LaViolette Drury, where is it hotter? Okay. Um, I'm going to say LaViolette because listen, how often does a coach fall on the sword meant for the general manager, right? It's a last ditch effort sometimes to cover your own ass. But

in this case, there are reasons to be upset with Laviolette's coaching. He has a coaching style that he brings from team to team. He plays a very aggressive system where your defensemen in particular are going to be heavily tasked in all three zones. You could say management did not give him an adequate roster to run that system. But you can also say the coach has not made any adjustments to maximize the players that he has instead. It's just, you know, what is square holes, round pegs, things like that, like that is that is the situation they're in. I think you're seeing guys like the bandage ad and you saw true but and you're seeing lingering look a lot worse because of the system. And right now I think they need to just go back to basics.

The fundamentals are missing. If you went through, you know, lingering shifts like I did when I wrote a story on him last week, I was watching some of his worst games of the season and their mistakes that you don't expect an NHL defenseman to make as consistently as as he is when his job at his core right he doesn't generate a lot of offense is to protect the net is to protect the scoring chance area and you're seeing players skate by him you're seeing his stick up in situations where it should be down like there are basic fundamentals that I think that are missing and I wonder if a new coach can come in and just simplify things and settle the waters you're not not going to make some, you know, wild changes in season to a team system.

But on the other hand, these are NHL players. They know all different systems. They know all different tactics. If you can find the right buttons to push and the right combination of them and the right way to maximize these skill sets, it's different, right? The thing that I wonder about too is

there was supposed to be a rebuild. Now it was with a different regime and we all remember the letter, the note, the memo, whatever it was that cut a lot of guys off guard. Kevin Shattenkirk was on Morning Cup of Hockey and talking about how they found out about the memo, that everything was about to change. But it didn't last very long. Like it lasted a cozy few months and then the rangers just went on about being the rangers um is that now do you think that there's an element of that now catching up to them i mean it could be chris cratter chris cratter is supposed to be gone chris cratter is still there with term that's just one example you know when you sort of say you commit to a rebuild hello dogs sort of say you commit to a

rebuild, hello dogs. When you say you commit to it, mine's going to go off any minute here. Don't worry about it. Get our dogs barking to each other. This'll be, this'll be wonderful. From Stouffville to Long Island. When you, when you say you're having a, making a rebuild, but don't really commit to it, eventually that catches up to you. I know you might say, well, hang on, Merrick, then explain the Los Angeles Kings this year. I don't have an answer for that. But for the purpose of this conversation, it seems as if they wanted to go through a rebuild and then said, yeah, no, with the New York Rangers, we're not going to do that. And we're just going to kick this can down the road. And now here we are down the road and we see the can again.

Yeah, well, I think that there's two ways to look at it with the rebuild because, you know, it's tricky because every team is starting at a different point, right? They have different assets to move, different draft picks, different prospects, and different where they went, we're going to sign right now players like the Molson deals and you go, but you're not ready for those contracts. The Ocposo deal, you're not ready for that contract. You're not at the point to be adding supporting players. For the Rangers, they moved ahead quicker because they had a ton of luck. They got top two picks, but they got the prospects. They didn't develop them adequately. They got the high-end talent in Artemi Panarin. That's a huge free agent signing. You didn't support him properly. And then a lot of players along the way got overpaid, Trouba, Savannah Jed, and you could

argue Kreider, but at the time everyone thought the cap was going up. So it's a little bit trickier to navigate that one. And then you got elite goaltending again. So there's reasons why they put their foot on the gas and it worked to an extent, but I don't think that they've done the little things along the way to ensure that this is a more sustainable window of contention compared to some other teams in the league, the Kings, the capitals. Those are the exceptions to the rule, right? Like it doesn't usually work that way. But then again, if you can take a step back at the right time, you can avoid that full on teardown and you can make it work. And you're seeing it even with the stars, right? The blend of the bad contracts with the good.

The Rangers didn't maximize those ELC years enough. They didn't prioritize those young players enough. Alexi Lafreniere took longer to develop because I don't think they, you know, prioritized his development at the NHL level. And I think Kako is another, like, story of that. So it's a tough situation for them to be in. Let me jump from the Rangers to the Swords here. Have a few minutes here um have a few wait wait wait i have a bone to pick with you i have a bone

to pick with you what did i do now okay well i pumped you up so much with that lovely story allison and i were pumping you up you didn't think i have to knock you down yeah no i know you know it's funny because i'll tell you what uh pull the curtain back a little bit here so so uh johnny lazarus sends me a note yesterday saying hey just reading bruce arthur's piece uh blah blah blah lovely and all that but you know enough of people saying nice things about you then just next text to me just said dick i'm like all right that's that's good laz like that's that that's good i deserve that one so you go yeah exactly take a take a whack at the pinata the other day i listened to this podcast and i heard you talking about gerard gallant wanting an apology and does he

deserve it i have to say i know i'm here's someone to jump go go no no finish finish finish finish i'm i'm definitely someone who jumps, is the coaching the problem pretty often? I know that, right? But he had fundamental issues, did not adjust. And we had seen this whole story play out in Florida before. That was a very stubborn coach who got burned by his own misgivings. Was the roster flawed then? Absolutely.

But did he maximize it? Absolutely not. I would say, if anything, maybe management isn't as good at picking coaches as they think. So my point with Gerard Gallant is that as much as you look at this situation and say, okay, you know what? Gerard Gallant has worn out his welcome here with the New York Rangers from a coach's point of view. And this is how coaches think. Coaches will always say the right thing, much like how backup goaltenders will tell you they support the starter. Guess what? It's not true. It's not true. And coaches want their successors to fail. I'm sorry, but they do.

Because it takes the heat off them and throws it up at management. My point about Gerard Gallant was, from a coach's point of view, that's Gerard Gallant saying, see, it wasn't the coaching after all. Not completely absolving him of any responsibility for what happened to the New York Rangers, other than this is just how coaches can be very snide. Listen, everybody wants to pretend it's one big happy family and community, but a lot of them will still jump over each other for a job. And nobody cheers for their successor. Do you think that they do? That's fair.

No. Do you think that anyone for a second cheers for their successor, whether it's a manager, whether it's a coach, whether it's a goalie defenseman or a forward? Does anybody in hockey cheer for their successor? Maybe with a smile on their face, but they don't mean it. I'm with you on that. I just wanted to be clear because that one caught my ear.

And I was like, hold on. Hold on, Eric. You could have just texted me, insulted me. No, no, no. You've done that before. I was going to. All right. You want to wait until they do it in front of everybody.

I can respect that. That's good. Quick thought on the swords. I want to ask you about Fool's gold in a couple of seconds. Thoughts on the swords. Oh my God. That poor team. I spent my day writing about the Atlantic division and these up and

coming teams that just simply can't get it together and actually come up right. The way that we expect them. And the savers are guilty of it. I don't love management, blaming taxes and palm trees for their misgivings. I think the tax storyline is so overblown. We forget that players get taxed on the road as well as home. I think that's a secondary thing, but it's not the primary difference. It's that they don't have

a team. They're not putting together a team that's capable of winning. And when they have their players, they're saying, well, Josh Allen brings in stars. You sold your truck your Josh Allen's, you had Sam Reinhart, you had Jack Eichel. Now they both have Stanley cups. The potential is there. They had so much potential in 2022, 23, they killed it emphasizing defense. And now this year you look at it and they look lost again. They need a top six winger in my opinion. And I think they should be looking at it via trade because they have all the pieces to make it happen. And I think they should be looking at it via trade because they have all the pieces to make it happen. And I think then you'll see players slotted a little bit more accordingly

based on their skillset instead of Zach Benson being thrown into a role that I think is above his depth and the same with Alex Tuck at this point. So I think that if they make a big deal and move someone like, I don't know, Dylan Cousins, I think they're just selling low and shooting themselves in the foot.

And it's just gonna keep this perpetual process going on forever. Do you think, well, first of all, the the sabre story we've been consistent on this show about the sabre story on the ice anyhow is is players that have been rushed to the nhl but the other thing that i that i do wonder about i'm curious your thoughts on this one as someone who has a peek under the hood all the time on all these teams is there too much soft skill on this team? You've heard this before. I know you've heard it before.

I've heard it. I can see your face. I know. I know the look on your face you just gave. Like, oh, God, Merrick. Okay, fine. Here we go. Yeah.

Too much soft skill or no? It's tough because I think that there's a way, if you want to have hard skill, there's a way to do it. Right? And I think that's what gets confused all the time. I don't need to see Dylan Cousins there fighting it doesn't it doesn't do for me that's not what i'm talking about exactly yeah i i think that there's a there's room for adding more hard-nosed players like i i thought they were onto something when they added like a jordan greenway

like a heavy forward checker who could you know be on that third line but they picked the weakest player off the wilds line that was playing that style. I think that there's a way to integrate it in because this is a team that at their best has all of the rush strengths in the world. And you can, you can win being an elite rush team, but I think you need more in the Panthers show that there's a way to blend that heavier style without sacrificing what makes you special. So yes, there is room for that, but you have to find the right players to do it, and that does not mean, I don't know, bringing in a Ben Chirot type and saying,

our problems are solved. Right. No, I understand that. I'm just, you know what I mean, like players that are willing... Hard to play against. Tough physically to play against. Yeah, yeah. You want it that they're effective hitters.

If they're hitting, it's not, the Sabres won the period by, you know, outing their opponent 20 to 10. I don't care about that. How many times did they come away with the puck when they made that hit? By the way, just as an aside, would you be with me on something here about hits and hit stats? I have a real hard time with hit stats. And by the way, somewhere along the way in hockey, body checking turned into hitting. We used to say body checking.

Now we just say hitting. It's like a physical tactic, like this punishment. So the way that hits are counted, someone has the puck, you make physical contact with them, it's counted as a hit, pretty much regardless of where the puck ends up. a player can make a pass get hit that guy gets credit for a hit i think a hit should only count like you should only get like a one beside your name under the hit if your physical contact forced to change your possession

otherwise it's just mindless slamming of bodies, which is fine, but it doesn't do anything. It's a potato chip. It's empty calorie. I know you and I love our dill pickles, but it's an empty calorie play. I want my hits to mean something, and in that case, I want

a change of possession before I put a one beside someone's name, with me or against me. I'm against you, but what I want to hit. I thought for sure you would love that. You're going to like this better. This has been my thing for some time. I have been playing this drum.

I would like to see hits counted the traditional way. I would like to see checks, maybe effective hits tracked in another way where there's some rule for it, right? A change of possession with an X seconds of the hit. There needs to be something that shows that that hit separated a player from the puck. That hit did something to promote and facilitate play. I would like to have two numbers for it because I would like to be able to track the difference. It's like the same thing as someone got 10 shot attempts on the ice every night But only two were going on net. I want to know are they getting blocked? Are they do they just you know?

Are they shooting from the outside and it's not getting through are they missing every time like you want to figure out the difference and that Difference can give you a million things to take a deeper dive into So I would say Have both numbers and then you really can see who the most effective hitters in the league are and who's just hitting to hit and not doing anything to progress play. So see, that's interesting too, because you and I have talked about a lot about passing and what should qualify as an assist. And now you're extrapolating that and saying, yeah, let's not just do that for passing, but let's also do that for hitting slash body checking. You know, one of

the most vivid things that you'll see and even go back to 70s this kind of started the change in the 80s you go look like when a puck is dumped in now it's just f1 scream as fast as that player can go it's body body body puck is secondary even if you look in this and i don't know when exactly this changed sometime in the 80s i'm not sure why or when, specific year or anything. But it was always puck first, player second. The play was on the puck first and the body was second. And then that somewhere in the 80s completely changed. I don't know why that it changed.

But now it's just turned into, and if you were at the Islanders, anytime you look at someone, you get a one. I'll tell you, there was a guy. Want to hear a story? This is the pre-internet age. It was, oh God, who was it? It was Dan McGillis. Okay, so the Edmonton Oilers, you'll like this story.

Pre-internet, not everyone's watching all the games. So Dan McGillis is a defenseman for the Edmonton Oilers. And they want to trade him to the Philadelphia Flyers. Flyers wanted some, like, snarl back there. Like, we need a big, we need tougher D, tougher D. Philadelphia, right? They never draft and develop a defenseman. They used to always just buy them trade for them so glenn say there had the statistician at northlands coliseum inflate the

hit count for dan mcgillis so like every game be like six hits so like bobby clark would look at that gm of the fight going oh wow like holy smokes this guy's this guy's a crusher this is like every single game six hits ten hits this guy's a damn and gil was like every single game. Six hits, ten hits. This guy is a damn good. It was a nice player. He wasn't that guy. But because his numbers were so inflated, they ended up doing the deal. And they got a good defenseman.

They just didn't get the guy that they thought they were getting because he just looked at phony hit stats. They should be watching the game, nerds. But this is like 80s. Like I was watching like Entertainment Philadelphia. You're not watching Edmonton or all these games. When are you getting it? But yeah, watch the game, nerd. Okay, here's, I'm going to

a little bit later on, I'm going to play a clip on the show here from Chris Kelleher, who did a great interview with Laz and Colby this morning on Morning Cup. Assistant General Manager of the Minnesota Wild. Minnesota fascinates me because they're skating with a $14 million hole in their salary cap.

And we've all known this and say, okay, you start the season, one skate behind your back. But they're playing really good. And Kaprizov is on a different level. And man, do I love Matt Boldy. And I love seeing Marco Rossi and what he's become now.

It's taken a long time, but that's fine. That's development. But when you look at the Minnesota Wild, what do you see? And then after you look at them and you check the numbers to make sure your eyes aren't lying to you, do your eyes match up with your spreadsheets? Yeah, absolutely. They have an identity and they stick to it. You have Kirill Kaprizov, one of the best stars in the game playing at a heart trophy level, which

is a sight to see. He's such an electrifying player. I love watching him now. Matsukurilo is back and it's like this dynamic duo reunited. You have that and you have elite defense. Now they've had a lot of injuries. Middleton, that's a big blow. And now they have Brodine back. So the fact that they're getting healthy, they're going to go back to the identity that they had in the very beginning of the year, right? Their top four on defense is so stout. And I think they've really figured that out and it's the way you expect them to play. And then they have two really good lines going to see Rossi's development. I think that's huge. It's everything they needed more. So as the team gets healthier, I think you're going to see a lot more potential because Eric's neck, like he's a great center to have and getting that defense back in check is going to help. And now obviously Gustafson missed

last night's game. Um, I, I still, though I go, but I need more. I love, I really love where they're going, but I need more. And it's, it's like third and fourth line scores. I'd love to see them make one or two deals for someone with just a little bit of pop to the bottom of their lineup everything is built to next year though like we all know this like all this is building to next season when they get their 14 million dollars back and the

salary cap goes up in their position to resign Caprizov let me let me conclude with this one Shannon Goldman podcaster broadcaster hockey writer bon vivant keeper of a burn book over her right shoulder you can't even say you haven't seen mean girls yet okay it's so embarrassing but go with me i'm going i'm working on a vibe here shana what is the most interesting team to you right now in the nhl good or bad most

interesting team and you can't say rangers of swords because we spend so much time on them no boring boring boring i'm over that let us talk about there's two buzzing in my head right now i want to talk about dare i say the washingtonitals. Shoot. I'm all ears. Connor McMichael. Let's go. He's, he's been so much fun. I had to write about them when their season ended last year.

And it was what's next for the Washington capitals. And I was like, why should I agree to this story? What is next? Nothing is next. Um, I think we saw the, the effect of a good coach last year in Spencer Carberry do a lot with the

little, and I loved the approach that management took over the summer. It was not the approach I saw coming. They went after reclamation projects like chicken who had fallen out of favor in Ottawa and you were wondering can he play tough minutes. They went for purely Dubois whose contract is such a week but look at him now as its second line center. And you're seeing the growth of those young guys Connor McMichael on the wing. I think that's really helped his game. produce is developing into a great two-way threat. And Sandin was given heavier minutes.

He had to play through them a little bit, and now he can handle them. And it's just reinvigorating the aging core. It's not just that, oh, they lost Ovechkin and they're still going along, because they're going along in a different way. But even with Ovechkin, you're seeing it wasn't just power play and special teams winning the games. Their five-on- five play was really good. And he was helping their five on five game. So I'm very curious how he's going to look when he's healthy. And if this team can just snap back into their earlier form, or maybe if they've learned something without him, because I

think it was a good opportunity to learn about what you have through these four lines and three pairs when your best scoring threat is out of the lineup. And we know that Dylan Strome is a true, you know, top line center now. We know that Connor McMichael is a second line caliber player. Like there's a lot to like here. Okay. So here's one final thought for me on the Washington Capitals. And here's why I like them. We live in an NHL where it's speed zone, speed zone, speed zone, right?

Fly, fly, fly, fly, fly. And Martin Fairbury is probably one of the fastest players in the NHL, full stop. But look around the rest of the lineup. These aren't burners. Like, they slow the game down and play their game. That's Dylan Strom. That's Alex Ovechkin. That's Tom Wilson.

Like, look around. They're good players. They're decent skaters. But they don't – I used to always say this about David Krejci. David Krejci wasn't the bullet. He was the vacuum behind it, and that's what made him so effective. What if you had a team full of that?

And I kind of look at that at the Washington Capitals. They play in this pocket that's not the fastest. No one's winning. You know how so many teams will just lob pucks and make races? Just make races, just make races, just make races. That's the game. Make a race, make a race, make a race, make a race.

That's not Washington. That's why I like watching this team so much. They're not just, it's not track meet. It's not track meet at all. Agreed. Yeah, they're good off the rush, but they have more behind them. They're a good four checking team. They're good at wearing down their opponent.

And it's nice to see from like, I don't want to say a no-name coach, but a coach without NHL coaching experience to make his team greater than the sum of his parts because you're going to measure up the roster strength of Washington right now to say Florida and you're going to come out with Florida every day of the week. Now, I'm not saying I would take Washington over them

in a playoff series at all, but I'm saying maybe the impact of coaching is something we can learn about a little bit more in hockey because we don't know enough about it and see what effect they can have because they like the capitals are just this prime example of that yeah and listen carberry had a lot of those players that we see on the washington capitals when they coach in ahl hershey um you're the best how to people a couple of people in the chat asking where they can find your podcast too many men so promo a go-go shane the floor is yours.

You know, wherever you find your podcasts, just search up Too Many Men and we're there. We're on Twitter at two dash many dash men. And if it's blue sky, it's underscores. But yeah, we tweet out all of our things. We're on YouTube, we're on Spotify, we're on Apple Podcasts, wherever you want us, we'll be there. You're the best. Thanks as always. You're the best. Good to be reunited. Thanks for having me. Shana Goldman, the great from The Athletic and the Too Many Men podcast. Okay, before we get to therapy time,

and Shana's awesome. Hey, Shay, with extra Ys. You can find her on Twitter X there. Before we get to Johnny Lazarus, I want to play something from his show this morning. This was a great interview.

I loved every minute of this. This is Chris Kelleher, the Assistant General Manager of the Minnesota Wild on player development. It's a conversation about David Juracek, Marco Rossi, and there's a nice little, I think if we have it, nice little Bill Guerin-Lou Lamarillo story wrapped up here too.

Let's get to Chris Kelleher from Morning Cup of Hockey today. You know, and you mentioned David Jur hockey today. You know, and, and you mentioned David, you're a check, you know, like once we, you know, you saw kind of how he played in Columbus. He was playing eight minutes a night or 10 minutes a night. He really wasn't playing a lot of hockey and he just turned 21. So really he should have been a kid who would have been just over here this year, but he's been over here for three years now.

You know, so he's still a young kid who's growing into his body. We believe there's a lot of upside. And I think Billy said it, how, you know, this is an investment. You know, we don't need him right now. And we have to get his game back to what we think he can be. And I think the way we brought him in, had him around the big team, see how we practice, see how John Hines does things, meet the coaches, meet the staff.

Like you guys know how important that is. Like you get to know the equipment guy, the medical guy, you feel comfortable. Yeah. So he was here for a week, 10 days. And now he's down playing in iowa and um you know i'm gonna go see him tomorrow down there and um you know he's he's getting big minutes and uh it's a great interview and in the interview he talks about um bill garen when he first arrived and drafted by new jersey and lou arrives and on the plane thought he was going to New Jersey and he was going to Utica. You can find that podcast wherever you get your pods,

your Spotify is your Apple podcast, or you can watch the entire thing on YouTube. And with that, we will bring aboard one half of the morning cup of hockey, which I go on so much about here on this program for good reason, because it is excellence. He is Johnny Lazarus and we're trying to keep him off bridges these days. Laz,

how are you today, my friend? We're waiting for Laz. Do we have Laz? Nope. We're standing by for Laz. Laz, you there? I'm here. You got me? There we go. We're trying to get your video hot here, but we got your audio. Okay. First of all, before we get into the Rangers,

did you get a chance to see or hear Molly Walker's interview? There you are, beautiful. There he is, the one and only John Lab. Look at that pretty smile. Oh, look at that. I told you I'd do my hair where I threw the hat on and changed my outfit. I thought you were going to do the feathers nice and be all pretty. That's okay.

We got the open door policy on Ugly around here, Laz. Don't worry about it, pal. Hey, so here's what I want to ask you. Did you get a chance, I don't know, maybe you're probably busy today, but did you get a chance to watch Molly Walker's interview with Rangers play-by-play voice Sam Rosen et al? I haven't yet. It's excellent. I have the tab opened up right now on my computer to watch all. I haven't yet. It's excellent.

I have the tab opened up right now on my computer to watch later. It's so good. It's really good. We're going to play a clip a little bit later on. But as a dyed-in-the-wool Ranger guy, I don't want to spend too much time with the team, but we're going to get there. What are your thoughts on Sam Rosen?

I don't know that we spend enough time talking about announcers. Voices and sounds are so related to our history. Like whenever I watch the Buffalo Sabres, I think of Ted Darling. Sam Rosen's been so much as so many people from so many different generations. It's kind of sad that he's got to call this team is his, his swan song in the NHL. But when you hear the name Sam Rosen, what pops through your mind?

I hear Sam Rosen's voice more than my own parents. I mean, he's the voice of my entire life. What else can you say about the guy? And, you know, honestly, for me, I think the biggest chill that I got when I first broke into the industry and got a job and was able to sit in the press box, I'll never forget it. The Rangers were home against Toronto toward the end of the 2023 regular season, and I heard Sam Rosen say,

it's a power play goal for the first time in my actual eardrum and not for the TV. And I was like, wow, this is so cool. Like that saying in itself is something that I honestly think even when Sam does retire, there should be a sound of Sam that plays in the garden when the Rangers score the power play. Yeah. That's an excellent idea that's a fan i think the sabers had done something with rick

shenourette right didn't they do something they i know he passed but oh he's he's no longer with us but i'm not sure whether they maybe for the for the in-house yeah done something with rick someone listen someone in the chat's gonna know know and is going to let us know. It's interesting, too, because we all have those moments of like, holy smokes, I can't believe I'm in this privileged position. I remember doing ringside for hockey night for a couple of years, and then one time I was waiting to do a walk-off interview with Andre Markoff, and Mr. and Mrs. Beliveau would always sit behind the Montreal Canadiens bench,

and I'm a huge, was before he passed, obviously, a huge fan of Jean Beliveau and his history and and his place in the game I don't think we talk enough about Beliveau but so at the intermission uh Mr. and Mrs. Beliveau would always you know leave and you know go get a refreshment before they came back and so I'm standing there like dumb goofy you know CBC guy waiting for Andre Markoff to towel off and come off so we can do like a 30 second interview that we may or may not even take to air and i saw jean beliveau walking towards me and i'm like oh wow this is like the coolest thing in the world and he's got me close and i said uh hello mr beliveau and he said salut jeff and i went how does he know my name yeah it's like jean beliveau knows my name

this is the coolest day in the world like i don't care what's andre markoff interview like i just want to quit the industry now because like it's not going to get better than jean beliveau saying salute jeff and that deep basso profundo voice of his but um anyhow i think the question we're all wondering about with you is how are you doing i mean professionally you know i'll speak from the professional side and fan side yeah professionally i gotta say it's it's very entertaining because every channel every show every network i listen to everyone's talking new york rangers so that for me i find interesting professionally as a fan beyond frustrating um and it's almost at the point where i'm not even

like talking to friends or people who text me personally about the Rangers because I'm just so sick and tired of it. But from a professional angle, there's no team I'd rather talk about than the team that I love and root for. I'm always curious about the City vibe. Like I just mentioned Montreal a couple of seconds ago. And one of the reasons why I always tell people you have to have

the Montreal Saturday, not just Saturday night experience, is you go to Montreal on a Saturday night game day and you go down the cobblestone streets of old Montreal or you go to cafes or restaurants or bars. And the whole day, like everyone's just talking about the game. Like the whole thing builds up to, you know, 7.06 when the puck dropped at the Bell Centre. So it's not just about you know 701 the lights drop and cold play hits and ghosts of the forum and all that stuff um what is the city doing with this well this city is interesting because there's so many other teams too that can distract you right like montreal you just really have the canadians like we got the knicks we got the islanders the devils i honestly consider here, Giants. There are so many different teams in season right now,

but all of them suck pretty much. So it's everyone just suffering together, maybe outside of the Devils fans across the river. And the Knicks have actually been really good, so I will give credit to the Knicks. But to its core, New York City is a Knicks city, and the New York Knicks dominate this city. So when the Rangers are bad and the Knicks are good, it's not as bad.

The years that the Rangers were good and the Knicks were bad, it made it feel a little bit better that the Knicks were bad. But I would never put New York and Montreal at the same level hockey-wise. That said, come springtime, when the Rangers are in the playoffs, there are Ranger jerseys everywhere in New York City, and it is unbelievable. I mean, I'll never forget it. I went to Game 7 of the Penguin Series in 2022 as a fan

because I wasn't working in the league yet. It was a Sunday night. I stayed out at the bar across the street, Stout, until 3 a.m., and I walked 30 blocks to my friend's apartment because my phone died and I couldn't get an Uber. And I high-fived this guy on East 8th and 1st Ave

wearing a Ranger jersey at 3 a.m. Let's go, like 3 a.m. on a Sunday. Like that's the kind of stuff when the Rangers are good, it's magic. But when they're bad,

it's just, you know, there's still other things to do here that distract you from that. Okay. I ask you let's get up if you have anything else to to share about the rangers i know that you know uh monday to thursday nine to ten is kind of therapy sometimes uh for you get a lot of if there's anything else you want to add about the rangers jump now because i want to dovetail to minnesota and your chris kelleher interview

okay well i actually really liked what you and Shana were talking about stats wise. And I wanted to throw something at you from a stat perspective with the Rangers and honestly, just in general in the NHL. And admittedly, I did botch this on Nesson the other night on Wednesday night. I was talking about coach Carville, who's the head coach of UMass and how he came up with his own analytic.

What I was in college called a heavy shift. So every day after a game, we'd have a packet in the locker room. We'd go look at the packet. First page I would look at was my heavy shifts, heavy shift for heavy shift against on the broadcast. I accidentally said heavy shit. Um, so that was my own mistake. I'll laugh about that forever. Uh, but please tell me that's on YouTube somewhere, please. BU scored probably seven seconds after I said it, so the clip is on BU Hockey Twitter. And I will send that to you later if you want.

Appreciate that. Thank you. I think if there was a stat in the NHL for heavy shifts, and to me and to Coach Carville, a heavy shift is when you have 30 to 40 seconds of offensive zone pressure. You get two or three chances at the net. You get your retrievals. You get the puck from low to high.

Similar just like offensive zone cycling and constant pressure yeah and i think if you looked at that stat right now and obviously it doesn't exist right now in the nhl i think the rangers would be dead last and heavy shifts against and dead last and heavy shifts for so while they might look good at five on five with the chances that they generate expected goals and whatnot because they're good off the rush they're poor defending you know i think they're the worst team against the rush in the nhl and then once they do defend the rush they're stuck in their own end and they have a hard time getting out so to me that stat which i find super interesting because it's more telling of what's happening in the actual game and what lines are really creating pressure and then handling

pressure i think that'd be interesting to see uh as far as the rangers. I would love that. And I'm glad you mentioned expected goal, like goals and expected saves. I've, there are, there are some people, and again, like we're dealing with public models, not private models. Like this is just the information we have to go on. There are so many people in analytics departments around the NHL that I'll speak to who will always say the same thing.

Be really careful with expected goals they talk about how how much further advanced like their own team private models are they're always like grain but i keep saying like anytime you want to make those public like i'm sure everybody in the analytics community would love it all we're trying to do is measure the games and try to figure out what's working what isn't and it's look, just they always keep saying, don't get too married to expected goals and expected saves. Like it is somewhat valuable, but we're past it now. What did you think, by the way, of the idea of hits?

And you should only count a hit if it forces a change of possession. Otherwise, it's just body contact. No, I agree. It's just a bunch of guys running around with just body contact no i agree it's it's just a bunch of guys running around with their heads cut off essentially right if you're not really impacting the play i mean there's also times where a guy throws a hit unnecessarily and the puck goes the other way and it's in the back of your net like there's one play i can think of you know artemi panarin against the winnipeg jets this year goes in stick in the air gets a piece of the body

i forgot who made the pass kyle connor's going the other way because Artemi's stick wasn't down. And it's two-on-one into the back of the net. Like, why are you going to throw a hit there? It makes no sense. Yep. It's interesting. Okay, a couple of things I want to ask you just from a player's point of view. And, you know, the hits are one of them.

The other one, and I don't know why I got that. I just started writing this weekend, and I got into this whole thing about bag skates and how Matt Nichol is a good buddy of mine. I've known Matty forever. I met him at First Benham. He was a leaps in strength and conditioning coach. And his whole thing was always like,

you're killing your team by bag skating them. Specifically, if you bag skate before the practice, you're just teaching your team to practice slow, and then they'll play slow. But I was talking to another coach last week who said look like ice is really expensive i'm talking like like john like we're going to like youth hockey like minor hockey in canada you're talking the united states um i'm sure you were bag skated as a kid we had a poor effort okay down and back minnesota mile whatever it's going to be like you're doing it and this one coach i talked to said like what like hot like ice is so expensive like hundreds and hundreds why would you have like

an expensive bag skate the stairs are right there just have your team i've had goals well i'm sure i'm sure you have but i've done a bag skate into stairs after oh dude well that's vicious what kind of game did you guys have but you see what i mean like ice is so expensive like i don't know that should be used like that's like a 700 punishment for some teams yeah but it's really it's the message that it sends right stairs will send the same message stairs yes and no but but it also depends like you know listen i talk about coach carvel a lot and i think one of the good things that he did in our practices was he would make us go, I believe, the start of a Monday practice. He would read out who took a penalty over the weekend.

And if you took the penalty, you'd be on the boards. So it's just boards to boards. So if you took a penalty, you'd go down and back, and then the whole team would go down and back as well. So you'd be doing it twice. So I remember there was one weekend I took three penalties in the two games that we played. So I had to go down and back.

Then me and the team would go down and back. Then I would go down and back. Then me and the team would go down and back. Then I would go down and back. Then me and the team. Like, it just kind of makes it creep into your mind. Like, hey, I'm going to be more careful next time I'm, you know, using my stick in the offensive zone.

I am not going to hook a guy. I am not going gonna trip a guy because i do not want to get bag skated on monday and i do not want to put my team through that either did did coach carvel distinguish between bad penalties and good penalties no that was the one flaw i had in the system it's his own messaging but it works like you know it was in the back of your mind i don't want to punish the guys on monday like don't be selfish and take a lazy penalty uh chris kelleher i love this interview today um uh i know that uh you and him go back uh not too long but know each other no summer yeah just just the summer so i mean i love the what was it one of the things that my main takeaway from it was the conversation that you and Colby

had with them about the development of players. And I know I've talked a lot about the Buffalo Sabres and inexperience and rushing to the NHL. And you see the effects of it right now, where it's a very measured approach by the Minnesota wild, which is interesting because they've had this $14 million cap hole. You would think if any team, they would be the ones like rushing guys at the NHL. Like we need decent players on the ice here. We're skating with $14 million tied behind our backs.

That was my main takeaway from it. I found the whole thing fascinating, but if I pinpoint one thing, that's what it was, how they developed the Marco Rossis, Jesper Wallstats, David Juracek is the next in that line. What did you take away from it? I encourage people to check it out either on YouTube or Spotify, Apple Pods, wherever you get your pods.

Yeah, well, I think with Minnesota and with that $14 million capital, like you mentioned, I think their biggest thing right now is staying competitive, right? Because they're not in this rebuild window of any sort. And they're also, I think in years past, maybe understood it about themselves

that they might not be cup contenders, right? I think they've always wanted to be competitive and stay in that mix, knowing that this is something that was holding them back a little bit. And then once this is now out of their organization, you know, this little cap hole, as you call it, I think it's almost a bit of a fresh start and you can almost put yourself more in a contention window. And listen, I'm not saying that the Minnesota Wilds aren't trying to win the Stanley Cup every year. That's obviously the goal of every team. But I think when you are in management and you know what you have in your organization, you have to be realistic and set

realistic expectations as well. And I think Minnesota, because they have a guy like Kaprizov and because Gustafson's playing so well and they have the younger guys like Boldy and Rossi and whatever, I think giving those guys experience but not giving them too much experience and maybe putting too much pressure on them is what's benefiting them way more than, you know, let's say, Jeff, I know you love talking about them, a team like Buffalo who has put those young guys in the NHL and have said, Hey, we need to make the playoffs now. You know, it's a different type of pressure and it affects your mental psyche in

different ways as well. And I think giving a player that room to breathe and room to grow and knowing that we're not counting on you right now for organizational accolades, it almost just like lets them breathe and lets them play hockey and only worry about hockey. Okay, let me finish with this one. I asked Shana this question. I'm going to ask you, but she got to choose from 32 teams. You get to choose from 31. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe,

Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need whenever you need it find your push find your power peloton visit peloton at onepeloton.ca i know the one i'm thinking of which is the most interesting team to you

right now in the nhl you get to choose from 31 teams not the obvious New York Rangers interesting team I mean it's just subjective like there's there's no right or wrong answer I like obviously I think the other option would be like Nashville but I think that's too easy I I want to say the Calgary Flames honestly really they're a team that I yeah I think that's too easy. I want to say the Calgary Flames, honestly. Really? Yeah, I think they're a team that nobody expected anything good from this season, and they've been quite the pleasant surprise, and they're competitive. And you would think with Craig Conroy there this year that they would most likely be selling and trying to start that next chapter in their organization

since everything has kind of been a little iffy since Matthew Kachuk and Johnny Gaudreau left, and this team's winning hockey games. So what do you do? Can you start selling pieces away, or do you actually believe what you have and try to add pieces to the puzzle and maybe go for the playoffs in a city that,

let's face it, I don't know why I'm saying let's face it, but let's realize they love hockey there. So I don't think any fan would want to go through a rebuild, but the Calgary Flames, you know, I think everyone expected them to drop off and they've still, you know, while they haven't been as hot maybe lately as they were at the start of the year, they're still right there in it, you know? And I think that's something that

is not getting enough appreciation. That Kadri goal the other night, oh my god. You looked like Kenny Wu in Mighty Ducks. It was insane. Because Calgary might not be such a sexy team right now, the love isn't really there.

Interesting. Try to go off the board. I'm anchored here in Canada. Like you're never going to go wrong picking Canadian team. You could have said, you know, Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, and you know, everyone around nation network would have said like, yeah, Laz is bigging up the Canadian team. Check them out. All right.

Excellent stuff. But look forward to morning cup of hockey tomorrow at nine o'clock Eastern on our daily face off YouTube channel. That's right here. Or if you're listening to the podcast, wherever you get your pods, folks, check out Morning Cup of Hockey. Thanks, Laz. You're the best. Stay off bridges, okay?

We're concerned about you. Okay. Staying off bridges. Johnny Laz. Thank you. Player-turned-broadcaster, going to be a star in this industry. turned broadcaster going to be a star in this industry um speaking of stars uh do we have the sam rosen molly walker clip do we have one zach zach was like under the gun yes like a million a million clips for the show today thanks bud okay so you can check this one out uh new york post um

uh the new york post uh sports youtube channel uh mo. Molly Walker this morning in conversation with Sam Rosen, play-by-play voice of the New York Rangers. This is an awesome interview. Molly was awesome. Sam is, Sam, he's great, right? This is his final year behind the mic for the New York Rangers. Here's a clip from that interview. The best story of J.D. is it was an April 1st game at the Old Cap Center in Landover, Maryland.

And Sal Messina was our radio analyst at the time, Red Light, just great, great guy in the Hockey Hall of Fame. fame and we kind of collaborated sal and i and joe whalen was our producer at the time of rangers hockey we uh they we got a guy to dress up as a royal canadian mountie policeman. So while we're getting close to going on the air, he walks in and calls J.D. over and he says, can I see your green card, please? And I don't think J.D. had it with him. And when he gets nervous, it was like, hummah, of the best april fools uh moments that you'll ever see is jd panicking that this canadian policeman was about to arrest him that's hysterical molly sits down with uh with sam for about an hour. It's a delightful interview. Molly's fantastic. And like I said, Sam Rosen is Sam Rosen, which is great.

Okay. And I really highly encourage you to check that out. It's a great interview. One more thing as we conclude the show today. We have a new show launching at The Nation Network. It is Up Close and Personal with Stephen Brunt. Now, I had a chance for a number of years to work, not necessarily alongside, but at the same shop with Stephen Brunt. And nobody does long form interviews or long form editorials or introductions for big events quite like Stephen Brunt. Stephen Brunt is the guy that has been there and seen

that and has been the guy to document it and if you're listening stateside Stephen is flat out one of the great Canadian sports writers of all time. Glad to have him as a colleague again. Here's a trailer for his new podcast Up Close and Personal with Stephen Brunt. Up Close and Personal with Stephen Brunt. Hi, I'm Stephen Brunt, and welcome to my new podcast, Up Close. I've had the privilege of covering sports for quite a few years, maybe more than I want to admit. Name any event pretty much anywhere in the world,

and I was there watching live in the press box. Olympics, World Cups, title fights, Super Bowls, the World Series, and all the rest. The Tyson-Holyfield earbite. Usain Bolt in the starting blocks. Joe Carter touching them all. Ronaldo going AWOL. Zidane's headbutt. Tom Brady winning all of those championships.

Even the 85 Bears. Not to mention sharing an elevator with Donald Trump and a surprise encounter with Nelson Mandela. It's been a great ride. The games, the events, the spectacle can be an amazing experience. But my favorite part of being a sports writer and broadcaster has always been meeting fascinating people and telling their stories. Which brings us to Up Close. Over six episodes, I'm going to be sitting down with sports people

who really have something to say. Some are athletes, some are coaches, some are from the front office or ownership. The range of sports and subjects is wide, but there is one common element. These are all people that I wanted to talk to. And these are all people I think you'll enjoy hearing from, irrespective of whether you're a diehard fan of their sport. I hope you'll drop in on the conversation. Up Close debuts December 17th, 2024.

And you can find it on YouTube or stream it on all podcast platforms. Up Close is the name. I don't know where I'm getting up close and personal. Up Close, the latest offering from Stephen Brunt should be outstanding. Stephen will be on this program on Wednesday to talk about not just the series, but also talk about his first podcast with the Up Close project, and it is with MLSE CEO Keith Pelley, which, as I am led to believe, will be a fascinating look at a number of different areas, specifically in hockey, that Keith Pelley has touched.

So very much looking forward to seeing that tomorrow and also very much looking forward to welcoming Stephen to the program on Wednesday. Stephen's making the rounds. He'll be on Leafs Morning Take along with Brad May. Mayday's going to be, Mayday's got great stories. We're going to be on Mayday on this show. Amazing stories.

And he'll be on Barn Burner as well. And with that, I think, Zach, we crammed it all in, bud. How'd we do? And how was the chat today? We did pretty well, Jeff. Chat was electric as always. This chat's the best. They are asking where they can send stuff.

If you want to send pictures or whatever, there was someone who asked earlier about, where do I send things if I've got vintage hockey stuff? Dan Hill, where do I submit photos? Tag us on social media. Tag us on X specifically. It's easy there, but you can tag us on all social media at the sheet hockey tag us there and i will grab all those i'll see it and jeff will see it as

well so make sure that's where you're sending it that's easiest place in any any chat was buzzing today yeah well that listen this listen i tried to co-opt as much as i can and by co-opt i mean steal uh as many people from the Morning Cup of Hockey chat room, which is elite. While I'm talking to people, I have half an eye on it, too, and I giggle and I laugh and I see all your dill pickle chips references,

but I'm talking to Shannon Goldman, and that's awesome. But what I've always wanted to do as well, I thought about doing this maybe on this program since we're on YouTube, is do something with people's local hockey rinks and the stories around them. And if you have pictures of your own hockey rinks or your rink fries at your local hockey rinks, but if you have any, like to Zach's point, any old hockey pictures. And what I think we should probably do with them is send in your hockey pictures and I'll try to find out as many stories around them as possible. That's always good. We got some stuff that you and me are working on with hockey commercials, Zach. So that's coming up too. Some of those are going to

be oldies and goodies. Yes. I inspired you last week with that commercial, the tipping. Yeah, you did. I'm like, you know what, Zach, that's a great idea. Let's go get some of the old ones. The ones that inspired. I'll tell you what. We can get to some of the ones that inspired something that we still have to this day, and that is the three stars. Because three-star gasoline, that was the promotion. I think it was SO three-star gasoline.

And the way they came up with to promote the gasoline was, we'll do the three top players of the game and it became the three stars the sponsorship is gone but the legacy continues i suppose kind of like how was it the world newspaper at chicago used to sponsor the world series or the baseball championships and after the sponsorship ended maybe just due to arrogance they kept it and kept calling it the World Series. I did not know that. By American teams with one Canadian team along for the ride. Yeah, it was the World Newspaper.

It was a sponsorship. I did not know that. Anyhow, I digress. Okay, so Greg Wyshynski is with us tomorrow. It's MBSW Tuesdays. Zach, anything you want to blast on about before we wrap up the program today? Anything bugging you?

Anything you found interesting? Maybe you want to weigh in on neck guards and skate cuts or you want to talk about, oh, you know what? I want to park some time and talk about synthetic ice this week. But anything, what's on your mind right now? That was it.

Synthetic ice. I mean, I read your article. I read it every article that you're putting out here over dailyfaceoff.com which everyone else should be doing as well the sheet blog and no if anything's wrong in there that's not on me if anything goes wrong in the production of the show like last mike not coming on blame it on me the blog nothing to do with me please zach phillips all criticism zach Zach Phillips. I am flawless. I've never made a mistake.

No, I was going to ask you about the artificial ice and kind of just to expand on it more. But if you want to save it for this week, I'm fine with leaving that as a teaser. I just think that just a sort of nickel and dime sort of tour around the idea. Man, ice is expensive. Ice is so expensive. And I'm not suggesting like you play games on synthetic

ice but just for like training and some practices just as a way to offset costs i'm just thinking about parents specifically maybe even just myself as a way to offset some costs can there be a sort of hybrid model where some practices are on ice and some are on synthetic ice as a way to help keep costs down because the quality of synthetic ice continues to improve. At the Fan Fest at the World Juniors, I think it's an SO sponsorship, they're going to have like a 30 by 60 that people can try out.

They're running programs on it, et cetera, et cetera. You ever skated on synthetic ice? Yeah, I used to train on it back in the day. That's kind of where my commercial, or my question commercial, I read it something in the chat. It was Ron Burgundy right there. That's where my question was my commercial or my question commercial, I've read it. Something in the chat is Ron Burgundy right there. Um, that's where my question was going to come from. Uh, yeah. Um, my bad back on track. Yeah. I used to train on it. That was what I was

going to ask you though, is the speed of it is not the same. Now is this going to translate to like, I used to do individual skills on it when I was training, stick handling, speed training, resistance training, et cetera, shooting. It's not the same as ice. How does that translate to full practice? Five on five? Are those things you can do? Does that actually now eliminate the need for ice? Like that was where I wanted to go with you on this. I don't think we're anywhere close to eliminating this, right? Not anywhere close to eliminating the need for ice I just do wonder if somewhere

down the road while I'm still sharing oxygen with people but maybe another generation after us Zach if that's a generation we're like what do you guys did this on ice you know how expensive that is you had chillers and zambonis what's wrong with you people anyhow for another day

on behalf of Zach Phillips thanks to everyone who took part in the chat, which is always fantastic. If you're listening on Spotify, Apple Pods, wherever, get yourself into the chat while the show is on live if you can. Monday to Friday, 3 to 4 Eastern. It is The Sheep. We're back tomorrow with Merrick Vershwishinsky. So Greg is here from ESn got it all right i kept

a little bit late today uh dismissed enjoy the rest of your day i can't get out my head. Lost all ambitions day to day. Guess I can call it a run. I went to the dark man. He tried to give me a little medicine. I'm like, no, I'm in that spine. I'm not against those methods, but I knew. It's me, myself, and others gonna be fixing my mind.

I turned on the record. I turned on the music. I do want to break it. I turned on the music. Wasting up, down, down, down, just sometimes losing. I've been on the dissapearant road. Mmm, in the dead dark night If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe,

Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.