The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Latest on Hellebuyck & Hughes, Amazon Prime TV Deals, and More ft. Steve Werier & Greg Wyshynski

Episode Date: September 3, 2026

Jeff Marek and Greg Wyshynski are back for another MvsW edition of The Sheet, leading with the latest on Connor Hellebuyck and Quinn Hughes as two of the biggest storylines around the NHL continue to develop. The guys break down where things stand with Hellebuyck in Winnipeg, the uncertainty surrounding Hughes’ future, and what could come next for both situations. They also react to Cale Makar’s massive eight-year, $20.4 million AAV contract with the Colorado Avalanche, the St. Louis Blues naming Robert Thomas their new captain following last season’s trade speculation, several American teams moving their local home broadcasts to Amazon Prime Video, and more from around the league.#NHL #StLouisBlues #RobertThomas #ConnorHellebuyck #QuinnHughes #CaleMakar #ColoradoAvalanche #WinnipegJets #MinnesotaWild #TheSheetReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Okay, Greg Gershinsky, who seems to be joining us from heaven, by the way. Oh, there goes a cloud right behind you there. As we mentioned the last time, Greg was with us, Greg has now moved. Apparently to heaven. Yeah. I heard real estate was pricey there, but I've also heard that you have like $2 less than God. So if anyone can afford it, it wouldn't be new. So congratulations on the move to, based on your background, heaven, Greg.

A lot less warm than where a lot. of people thought I would go on the afterlife, I'm sure. But no, this is... Pitchfork conducts his business. We did the thing where we had to leave our old house at a certain date because of, you know, when the new people wanted to move in. And now our, speaking of the afterlife, our furniture and all of our possessions are in purgatory for a week.

So I'm in the only room in the house that has a piece of actual furniture. It's a dresser that my wife and I built for a week. our children in their room. So this is my kid's room. And I'm doing the show. I don't know if you can see it. I'm doing the show in a soccer parent lawn chair that you'd sling over your shoulder and then fold out on the field.

This does remind me, though, that I do now have a drink holder. I was going to say, you have drunk baseball dad chair. Most the time I use this chair is when I take it to the track at Saratoga. And as you can see, I just found this in the drink holder. This is an HP. Upman cigar H. Upman cigar band. So that's my deal.

I'm not dead. I'm just in an unfurnished room. I love it when my stereotypes about you come to life. Like when you're pulling out cigar bands from like a fold-up chair. I'm just like, a little bit about me.

We all have our quirks. You have most of them. I have a thing where instead of throwing away trash, I will tend to put it in my pocket. I don't know why that is. I don't know if it's just an aversion to trying to search out and find a trash can. But like at any point I'll empty in my pocket. I'll find cigar bands.

Last night I had a craft American singles cheese wrappers in my pocket. Yeah. I don't know why this is. It seems very sort of great depression to me sometimes when this happens. No, you know what? But it's funny because I was, I was, I was, I was always told, I was adopted. And I was always told that adopted kids have a sort of predisposition to hoarding things. And if you have a look here in the basement of the house here and go into our furnace room, you'd be like, oh, yeah, Merrick was adopted. That's what I, that's what I have the same thing. Like, I'm just like tucking things in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a pant pocket all the time. And then a couple weeks later, like, what am I thinking and just get rid of it. But that's what I was always told about me. So not to, not to put you on the couch, though, like, is, so is the hoarding. So is the hoarding. So is the hoarding. So is the hoarding. So is. So is the. So is the hoarding. So is. So Is the hoarding I don't want to abandon these things? Or is the hoarding these things are precious to me and I don't want to.

You're making a nest. Making a nest. Like a bird or a squirrel. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Essentially, you're trying to make your nest your place to stay. Oh.

And then you go on years and years later and through therapy and you learn adoption language and you weren't, you know, given up for adoption. Someone made an adoption plan for you, et cetera. You want to actually, want to hear a wild theory. Can we go like way, way off page? Let's go. I swear folks, we're going to talk about hockey. I can't believe I'm saying this.

I had one person say to me that he believed that adopted guys weren't boob guys because they were never breastfed. Wow. That is the wildest adoption theory I've ever heard in my life. I told you we're going like way out because I've talked to. plenty of people about being adopted and a lot of them also adopted kids and that was the wildest thing any adopted person said to me. Can you believe that one? Right.

So you're, you're an ass man because you saw them walk away. Is that essentially what you're trying to say? I said to like, wait, wait. Almost something speaking of a barstool podcast. I don't know what the hell happened. I don't know. We're supposed to talk about like the kale McCar contract and now we're talking about,

anyway. Welcome to the program. This is about hockey. Steve Warrior may or may not join us depending on whether he's heard the intro or not. Former assistant general manager of the Florida Panthers will be stopping by. I would suspect that somewhere down the road,

Steve will probably fight himself in her front office. I've been saying that for a long time. Yes. He absolutely will. And I'm hoping he can answer this. And if he's listening, this is going to tip you off, Steve, that we're going to talk about it.

I've been summarily obsessed for a year with the Kauai Leonard story with the Clippers. The punishment just came down yesterday. Yeah, yeah. dying to know Steve's thoughts on whether something like that could ever happen in the NHL. So we're going to definitely bring that up with him later on. You know what I wondered about that? Just as an aside, too.

And you know more about other sports, obviously, than I do. Did they not go after Kauai more because they were afraid of a fight with the PA? Because that's what it kind of felt like to me. I'm like, okay, they're spoiling because they don't want to fight with the players' association. Again, we are a hockey podcast. We will talk about hockey in a moment. But I've consumed at least three different podcasts. about this issue, including Pablo Dori's, which is the one that, you know, set the wheels of motion for all this punishment to happen.

I like Pablo. He's a friend. I've been on his podcast. I cannot believe that he has become like time journalist of the year, basically. It's fantastic. So standing up to billionaires. Who are, are secretly trying to crush him behind the scenes and yet stayed on court on target. So here's the thing. The PA is cooperating with this punishment. Kauai was only fined $700,000. The max you could be fined in the CBA for a violation like this for a player is $350. So essentially it's like we've gotten you on two violations. It's $700,000. That's your fine. The reason this is big, apparently, is because in the CBA for the NBA,

the only way the Clippers could appeal a salary caps or convention situation like this is through the NBA. NBA Players Association. So by the PA being like, okay, you're just going to, so basically quite, not going to say cut a deal, but like it's essentially $700,000, $700,000, slap on the wrist. You get your trade to the Raptors. And you are now looped out of this situation and the clippers can't rely on the PA as the entry point to an appeal within the NBA. So that's why that's a very big deal. Okay, I should be more interested in this story.

I really should. It's an incredible story. I hope Steve is aware of all the sort of machinations here through all of it because it could probably get a great answer out of him. Now, a couple of things. Before I started talking about adoption, what I wanted to mention to you is as a jump-off point here, and I will direct people to your piece at ESPN.com about Kail Makar.

We will get there. What I wanted to open the show with was, after what we saw just this summer, and this continues into this week, and we see it even playing itself out on social media with Evander Cain and Curtis Gabriel. Can hockey ever make fun of pro wrestling again? Because this has been a pro wrestling summer for hockey.

Oh, it's all been people cutting promos and drama. And it's awesome. No, I, this is, but no, no, I mean, like, listen, the Evander Cain thing being what it is, and I've got absolutely zero time for that guy. Everything else, I think, is symptomatic, Merrick, of money flooding into the system. Yeah, I agree. And as the cap exponentially increases, player empowerment increases, the stakes for these teams increases.

You know, the Kale McCarr piece you just mentioned, it's a winners and losers of the Kail McCar contract. I waited until the dust settled. I waited until I was off maternity leave. and I came back and wrote that piece for ESPN today. And one of the things that was apparent in reporting out this piece and talking to some agents and some executives, it's just like, I mean, he's the first $20 million man. By the end of his deal, we're going to have a $30 million man.

Like, think about where you and I were in 2005 and the idea that there could be in a capped league, considering where the cap ceiling was after they uncanceled the season or whatever, that we'd have a player making $30 million against the cap annually. And that's the prediction from the agents right now, is that we're going to have that by the end of this McCar deal. Do you remember what the lower limit in 205 was 39? The lower limit was 215. Kilmacar almost has the full lower limit of the first salary cap.

Almost as the floor of the salary cap when it was first. I remember saying this on the show the other day. I remember talking. I remember talking to David Poyle. It's just by virtue of the fashion. Ah, we just lost wish. Okay, here we are once again. So where did we just left you?

By the way, that was me. And it's weird because it didn't say like the, it's internet went down. It's amazing that here. No, internet's not down. It's bizarre. Here in heaven, we have better internet than you have in Stoville. It's pretty amazing.

Shocking. Can you send me down a... Many people say... Can we send me down a cable? Can you send you down a cable? Lord. Lord Wushinsky. That'd be wonderful.

Can you just, can you... We're talking about the fact that, first of all, you made a great point that Kail Makar is almost making the cap floor from 2005, which is mind-blowing. Yeah. But like all of the drama that's inherent to the Hela-Buck situation, the Queen of Hughes situation, it's a combination of two things. One, cap going up exponentially, money getting higher, stakes getting raised. And we can't overlook the fact that there are certain situations playing out that are very unique, very unique. Radic Kachuk wants to play with his brother

Quinn Hughes wants to play with his brother Connor Helibuck wants to be an American like you know but also not to not to minimize that I mean

I know the gold medal team USA group chat thing has sort of become you know the go-to explanation for a lot of this stuff but the part I don't know how much

I listened to your conversation with Joe Smith the other day about Quinn Hughes I don't know how much you've talked about Hellebuck in the last couple days, but do we know definitively whether there was a handshake deal between him and Kevin Shevolde off about? I don't know. So Dave Panyoda seemed to think that there was when I talked to Dave. Now, I had-

If the team wasn't good, or if the team had to rebuild or reload or whatever, that he could hit the eject button at some point. So I've mentioned this a couple of different times in a couple of places saying that I don't know. All I'm trying to piece together at the time when him and Shifley signed the deal, everybody was saying, oh, they got to trade Shafee, they got to trade Hella Buck one year left for their contracts. They got to get something for them. Winnipegstairs over the abyss and what it looks like if they have to rebuild

and financially they don't like what it looks like. We've seen this before in the NHL where players will have a side deal, right? They'll have one of those deals that's like, you know what? Yeah, if it doesn't work out, we'll move you on somewhere else. It's happened countless times. I've had some people push back. on it and I've had some people say, yeah, it sounds like that was, that was the arrangement.

So really, I've come to a destination of, I don't know. I do think that something, something did happen after the Olympics, and I can understand it. You're going back to Canada after everything that happened post-Olympics, whether it was the celebration, the White House, the State of the Union, Medal of Freedom, all that stuff. I mean, I know there was some, I mean, listen, there's some probably stuff that we're not cognizant of behind the scenes with him, his family, the locality, the Canada versus USA thing. Like, there's probably, I'm not, I'm not saying that's not part of the equation because it absolutely could be. I don't think it's been as public as Brady Kachuk, basically having to be a spokesperson for Team USA and the senator's locker room and explaining all the things that happened with the joke about the women's team and the state of the union and everything like that. I don't think Hella Buck had to necessarily do that.

Could it be as simple as tasting the ultimate glory of victory and then coming back to a team that you know is going in the opposite direction? Could be. I think it's a lot of, I do think that not to stay on this point too long, but I'm sure that there were some fans in Winnipeg who looked at Hellebuck in a different light and that's probably not lost on him or his family. Because he did a reference, like the best thing for my family, me and my family. family right now is to play somewhere else. And I'm sure that Helibuck sort of came back and went like, why is everyone treating him like this? Why does everybody, not everybody, why did a lot of people feel this way about me after the gold medal? Because I don't, I think it was more than just USA beat Canada. Fine, whatever. I think it was everything afterwards. No. So you can,

you can understand how he would feel that way. But the winning for sure. And I think a lot of that is Dylan Larkin, too. I think Larkin was top of the mountain too. To follow that, well, I think he wanted out because he hated Steve Eiserman. To follow the thread that we were pulling on just before about whether or not there was a handshake deal that when the team's fortunes turned, he could ask out. Well, that doesn't really square with the thing that we've seen in the last couple weeks, which is Hella Buck saying, you know, putting out his statement, which is to me like him saying, I'm not going to report to camp and here's why. And then the team putting out their statement. And so I was talking to one NHL executive yesterday who said, could it be a situation

where Hellebuck sees the jets in one way and management sees the jets in another way? And while Hellebuck sees it as this is the time for me to leave from a competitive standpoint, the team is like, hold your horses. says it were not that bad yet. Is that possible? It's possible. I think it's, I think it's completely possible

because I think the Winnipeg Jets have full expectation that they're closer to the ones that won the President's trophy than the ones that bottomed out last year and that they're not that far away from it. Now, that team, you'll recall Winnipeg Jets two years ago, that was must watch television. How many third period, again,

I remember saying this on the program, how many third period come back did you see from the Jets that year? It was incredible. Like, one of my first. favorite things to do was Jets are losing by a goal in the third period or two goals in the third period.

Go watch that game. Because like every third period would be this incredible Winnipeg Jets come back. And on the one hand, I remember saying to myself, this is really fun to watch. This is awesome. This is fantastic. The other side of me said,

this is a really dangerous way to play. If you have to do this all the time, if the games have to be this exciting all the time, it's probably indicative of a bigger problem. which is why last year's complete collapse, I think for some that watched the Jets closely, probably wasn't a massive surprise. Might have just been a small surprise.

So all the things I've been talking about, this is why I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of it being like this era of people, all these guys leaving Canada for reasons. I mean, it's quite possible. But at the same time, it's like it seems like there are mitigating circumstances is for all of it, whether it's Brady with Matthew,

whether it's Quinn with his brothers. Those two things are family. Yeah, whether it's Hella Buck and some agreement that he has, or maybe it is the USA Canada thing. I don't know. And if that's the case, then, yeah, I think Hella Buck is evidentiary of there being a trend going on that obviously doesn't apply to the Montreal Canadians

and they're American players. But, you know, they were big winners in your piece. for Kilmacar too for kill McCarer. Yeah, but we'll get there in a second. But yeah, I like to include that. Let's get there now. I mean, look, the Canadian said Lane Hudson over a barrel because of the type of RFA that he was.

He couldn't go to arbitration. You couldn't get an offer sheet. That being said, though, they leaned on that leverage and squeezed out a contract that at the time everybody thought was a bargain because we all thought he'd get at least $10 million a year. And now that, I made this comparison in the piece. I think that Lane Hudson contract is going to be like the Nathan McKinnon contract was for Colorado that led up to them winning the cup. It is such a bargain for one of your top tier pillars of your foundation type players that you're going to be able to do so much business because you're not overcompensating that player that you're going to be able to build a championship team around them. And again, put me on the bandwagon for Montreal winning a cup in the next few years, being the next Canadian team to break through after.

being the last Canadian team to break through. They're just too good. The foundation is too strong. They're too good. They're going to be able to attract talent and retain talent. And I think they're on the right path. Let me pause on that one. First of all,

I hope you're right. I would love to see a Stanley Cup in Montreal because I want to see a parade. I want to see a Stanley Cup parade in Montreal. Plus, I want to see that building and me and this love affair with hockey history and ghosts of the forum and all these types of things too. The only thing that I wonder about with Montreal,

like right now, what Hughes and Cortin have put together as a Picasso. Look at that stuff. Look at that cap. Look at Montreal's cap. It's a thing of beauty, considering what we're seeing other teams go through right now. My only question is,

can they attract free agents? You know, there's always that one last piece of the puzzle that you get in free agency or you get someone to wave to go. I know that winning is a lure and I get it. I also know how expensive it is. to live in Quebec. I get that.

It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful place, and it's not exactly inexpensive. And provincial tax is the highest there than anywhere else in Canada. My question for Montreal is, can they attract a free agent? Like a big free agent? Can they do that? It's a great question. Like, would there be a guy, say, in his late 30s, an absolute megastar, currently on a team where his two best friends might not be there after this season,

has always been linked to the Montreal Canadiens for hockey historic reasons. Like, would there be somebody who could come and be the cherry on the Sunday for Montreal, tie it all together? Maybe win a face off for score a big goal, perhaps even an overtime goal, which I believe he did in the Olympics once.

I don't know about that one. What do you think? I mean, listen, I've been in the Sid's going to play somewhere else business for too long. I know, and it's been Montreal. I may have to close up the shop because the more he's in Pittsburgh, the more it feels like he's going to stay in Pittsburgh.

The more it feels like he's going to be a one-team, a one-team guy. And that kills me because we'd all love to see him with McKinnon, and we'd all love to see him and, you know, be the elder statesman, the Obi-Wan Kenobi, leading the young Skywalker's in Montreal. But I just think maybe I have to close up the Sid, the Sidd playing elsewhere shop. Where is it, where is the more romantic finish, though,

if he is going to go somewhere else, Colorado or Montreal? Washington is the most romantic. I mean, if you like a good twisted dark comedy rom-com. Yeah, that would be the one. Okay, so Steve's going to join us in a couple of moments. And then something we'll pick up at the end of our conversation with him too. But the winners and losers in the Cal McCar deal, I'm glad you mentioned that Colorado is the big winner. The one thing that I keep pointing out to people, if you went to, if you went to 31 other general managers in the NHL and said,

do you want kale McCar for $20 million? You know what 30 million? You know what? 31 other general managers would say? Yes, we'll take kale McCar at $20 million. At the end of the day, you got Kail McCar. You win. You got Kail Makar.

You got the best defenseman in hockey and someone that will go down as one of the best defensemen ever. You win. You keep the player. Where's the grousing? I was just trying to figure out if it was, only 30 general managers because Bill Garen would say no. But then I thought to myself, no, Bill Garen would say yes, then trade Quinn to the devils

for a couple of pieces he could use. You're absolutely right. No, I think they're, you know, without any qualms or conditions, a huge winner in this. I think Sackett said it best. You need superstars to win. And it was funny. I got some pushback from somebody on Twitter before the show. about that mindset and they're like, what about the Carolina Hurricanes?

I'm like, they chased superstars for two years before they won the cup. They just couldn't keep them. Jack, Michael, Arammy, Panera, and Miko, Ranton, all the superstars all over the place. They chased all of them. All of them. You could make the argument that it was still imported stars that got them over the hump. Now, Taylor Hall is not Connor McDavid. and Nick Eilers is not Leon Drysidal.

Yeah. But they're also not just like scrubs. And those are two, I think those are the two guys they added to the pot and the rest to be finally worked. So in Sackack's case, he's like, look, you need superstars to win. Now this is a guy coming from a team that had, you know, Forsberg, Bork. How many, like, like Patua. Patrick Waugh.

You know, all these guys. Alex Tangis looked at like, yeah, I guess he's okay. Yeah. So, yeah, we get it. Yeah. But again, he's also the general manager that watched a team get built around the pillars that are McKinnon and McCarr at the time rent. And so, yeah, you obviously, you sign McCar and you sign him for what you think he's worth. And, you know, quite frankly, if you want to extrapolate out the, did he give them a discount?

Well, yeah, he did because he could have waited until next summer. In which case, the price tag would have been over $22 million. Two things. One, he did the deal based on this. year's cap starting next year. Correct. And it's an eight year deal. And it's an eight year deal.

And it's an eight year deal. So is it one of these like, I'm going to take 60 million dollars really quick and then go to the pay window again. Like, no, he's not doing that. He's doing eight. I mentioned this in the piece too. Like the eight year term is the thing that blows your mind. It absolutely blows your mind.

At a time when everyone's taken five years, all these young ins are taking five year deals. And, you know, Connor McDavid's taking a wait and see. And, you know, all this stuff is happening around the league. And then Cal McCar says, no, I'm good for eight years plus the one I owe you. So that's a nine year window to win with me. Like, what a, what a absolute gift to the avalanche to have an athlete do that. To have a guy be like, let's just go. Let's put our heads down and win as much as we can in the next nine years.

It's not about, don't worry about me wanting to go play with family members somewhere else. Don't worry about me being like, oh, I don't know. is the goaltending going to be good in three years? Like, don't worry about it. We'll figure it out. Here's nine years of me that you get. And that's beyond what McKinnon's contract is, too. So, like, that is, he could have easily just squared up to what McKinnon's term was,

where I think McKinnon is a UFA in 31. So that, I mean, that is just like, I mean, McCarr is a rare player for a number of reasons. But maybe the rarest thing right now is the off. commitment to one franchise and being like, here's nine years of my life. Let's go. It's incredible. Let's get Steve aboard. He's a former assistant general manager of the Florida Panthers who will one day be coming to a front office near you.

Steve, where he joins us here on the program. Just, Steve, great to see you again. Great to talk again. I was making the point that this is probably the most drama-filled offseason we've ever seen in the NHL. And we're not even done yet. And, you know, this CBA has still yet to expire. But one of the flashpoints just happened

and that was a Kail Makara contract and we're sort of, you know, the point that I was trying to make is every single general manager in the NHL would take this player at that number if you offered it to them tomorrow. Is there anything that you think people have missed, as you've, you know, read and talked to people about this deal, is there a point about the Makar deal

that you keep coming back to that you think that maybe others may have missed or is it the obvious, yeah, he's worth $20 million and they got it more than, you know, they got a $22 million hockey player for $20 million bucks. Yeah, I don't think it's like a mystery. Like some of those other ones might be, I think you guys touched on a couple good points a second ago. You know, like, is the cap going up?

Yeah, could he maybe get more? Yeah, maybe did he watch Wall Street and think how many more yachts? Can you water ski behind and I'm okay? Maybe. It's a lot of money. They're a good team. It's a cool place to live. Like, I don't think there's like a hidden, you know, TED talk here about here's what

everyone's missing about to kill my car contract because I'm smarter than you are. I think it's just like one of the best defensemen ever. Being offered a ton of money at a place he really likes where his, whatever Greg says, where his laundry or his suitcases already are. And he's staying in. Listen, they'll try to save money wherever they can and other players. They try to be a little cute with that in the past on the Ronston deal. But, you know, they'll find the next edge.

And maybe they're already trying to do that with like finding the next January rather than resigning, you know, a real good defensive center. That might be just a little richer for what they're trying to do. Yeah. You know, they also said in Wall Street that greed is good and that greed works, that greed is whole. And, you know, between the McCar. The money is healing. Between the McCar contract, I used to have the entire Gordon Gecko speech memorized when I was a kid.

That's when I was a real capitalist. Yeah, that's gross. That's gross. Between the McCar contract and the Celebrity contract, like you could make the argument, And as Jeff and I were just doing that, like there is a certain amount of hometown discount that McCar gave the avalanche in the timing of things and in the term of things. And, you know, Sellebrini told me in an interview earlier this summer that, you know, he was very much considering a hometown discount with the San Jose Sharks. I'm not quite sure he gave them much of one in comparison to say like what Bedard took with Chicago. But that's neither here or there.

He can get what he wants. He's the franchise guy. One of the guys that I mentioned in the piece with regard to both of those contracts is Matthew Schaefer. And that's a real interesting one to me now because now you have a defenseman having set the market for defensemen and maybe Quinn Hughes resets it on his next deal. And then you have the transformative franchise superstar rookie and celebrini who I think is the comp for Schaefer insofar as like a guy who just like just completely terraformed a Moribund franchise, right? So what does Schaefer's next deal look like? Does he break the bank or does he, does he go a little bit cheaper on his post-rooky deal? I mean, the easy answer is it looks like whatever he wants it to look like, right?

Here's a piece of paper, right in the number, right in the term, within the rules. And we'll get back to you. And, you know, I don't know how much trickier it'll be. I think if that number starts with a, you know, I think it'll be a seven-year max by then. But if it starts with seven years, then everyone on the aisle side is sort of jumping and dancing and happy. and if the number starts with a three or a five, it might set off some alarm bells. But yeah, you know, it's sort of like bartender's choice.

If he wants to leave a little bit money on the table, either because, A, he trusts management and ownership to use that money judiciously to build around him, or B, maybe he just has the mindset of, you know, like Don Baisley, who was an agent back in the day, often advised his players don't always go for the maximum amount of money. It might help you sleep a little better at night for various reasons to do a, you know, different structure than the,

max. You know, not sure if Schaefer will take that route, just given how great he is in the era we live in now. But yeah, you know, the team will be happy with, with however long they can keep him. And, you know, you know better than me, Greg, whether he's sort of the type of guy who might say, hey, I'll take a little bit less now or maybe take a little less now if there's a real clear path to what you'll do with it, which I think would be interesting if you sat down and said, tell me exactly what he's looking to do with this money before I, you know, maybe change it from a 25 to 23. I mean, that's the thing.

Like right now he's a sweet teddy bear. Right? Like he's the young, a wide-eyed rookie who reinvigorated the franchise and everyone loves him and everything. He's awshucks and he's talking about his family. And then we haven't gotten down to the business of hockey yet. He's not a rookie contract. And listen, I think the thing with him and Macklin is like they have favored nation status.

Like they could ask for anything and the fans won't give a shit. Just pay those men their money. right? Like they're in that mode right now for those two franchises. It's not like, say, when a certain forward from the Toronto Maple Leafs wanted to get a huge raise and then got one and then was basically run out of town because of the contractual ask that he and his family made. The interesting thing about Schaefer, too, is he does have that Ah Shucks about him. I really do. And I think Schaefer, because he does have a little bit of a different personality than a lot of the other players that we're talking about here.

And look, the Leo Carlson offer sheet changed everything. And then there was a MacLen-Selabini contract, the Bredd contract. We'll see what Fantilli gets. Now we've got Kail Makar and the number two. So everybody in the Players Association can send Kail Makar a Christmas card because he broke the barrier. And so the next one that starts with the two, there won't be the same. Oh, he's putting himself over the team about him.

McCar is a guy here that's the punching bag for those that want to throw gloves. but here's what I wonder. Are we now, given what happened this summer, are we at a point where players now more so than ever in the CAP universe are saying, Caps not my problem? Caps your problem. Yeah, I wonder if we'll ever get like a 30 for 30 of how this all came to be.

Like was it really just randomness of the sequencing of Carlson, So Brinney, McCard, everything else? Or did somebody sit down? you know, group of agents, the PA, the PA office, whoever players and say, hey, you know, let's end sort of the mockery of, here's a baseball contract and a basketball contract, and that equals 14

hockey players. Let's find a way, you know, right now to, you know, leverage the CBA and get paid, you know, more than we ever have before, which is a heavy lift on a one-to-one basis, just, you know, one-off team and players and leading. So situations like, you know, we sort of joke about with Toronto

a minute ago. So I wonder a little about that. like how did this all sort of get where it was but to your point like you know when will management catch up and we sort of seen that situation play out in a few markets right now to various degrees of like players pointing out and saying you know hey listen even if I sign a contract and I commit I expect a baseline like almost like a force majeure term of like I expected at least this bare minimum and I did with this massive like tsunami or hurricane of ineptitude in management and I'm changing my stance now and I'm entitled to do that.

And yeah, I think that'll be interesting how that plays out and whether, you know, ownership tolerance for management maybe results in shorter management terms as well. But it's also a part of the same sort of Pandora's box that's been open the last few months. Let me sort of take that one step further here. If we are at, and again, this is just the one summer, so we'll see. Like you're right about the sequencing. And once upon a time, like, we're old enough to remember how Bob Goodnow and Ian Pover used to run the union and they had the big board, right?

And this player was going to sign first at this number and then that player was going to sign second at this number and everything had that cascade and everything was, it was like, like, summer contracts used to be pro wrestling because it was all predetermined and it was determined by the players association. And it all started with the top dog and then everything cascaded down. That doesn't happen anymore. But if more and more players are comfortable and that's why the Carlson deal was so, the Carlson offer sheet was was, was monumental.

And that's why I think Kel McCar, taking a two is monumental here. Is there, and this is very much, well, listen, a girl can dream, is there any chance that it gets to a point where we start to see a change in the salary cap? Because teams say, like, look, if everyone's, everyone's maxing out here, we have, and we want to make our, we want to, you know, use the financial leverages that we have. can we not at least look at a luxury tax system or a franchise player tag or say do you think it again real crystal balling here but again girl country do you think it might be going down that lane i'm dreaming i know i don't know like there's more money than never before and owners are agnostic as to you know how it gets spent if you're agreeing to a cap of 130 if that just means one guy gets 30 instead of like three third liners getting 10 like you're still writing the same deck in aggregate so that may not sway things. And then, you know, the luxury tax debate sort of turns on also, like,

who has sort of, you know, the power among owners. And usually it's the, you know, owners in the biggest markets, rates, the biggest checks were the ones who, you know, would be hit more likely than not with that luxury tax, unless sort of you get a palpitatory situation and then you get some sort of convention going on. So, yeah, it's hard to say. What?

What word is that? We'll talk about the problem. thing in a second. I'm going to talk about the Pablo thing in a second. First of all, your 30 for 30 idea is a great one. I wish I knew anybody at ESPN that could do that. But second of all, like, I think in that 30 for 30, a lot of people believe the flame that lit the fuse for all of this was Jack Eichol.

And Jack Eichol's decision to look at his long-term contract with a losing franchise. And people forget, he asked out before all the surgery. in Michigan. He was already requesting a trade well before all of that stuff became public with his surgery. So I wonder if he's ultimately the first one to say, yeah, I'm young, yeah, I'm a star. Yeah, I committed to this franchise. But they're not holding up their end of the bargains. So I want to be somewhere else.

To your point, though. So I mentioned this to Merrick the other day when we were talking on the phone. The luxury tax bit, we've had now several seasons of. of people complaining about the advantages of Sunbelt teams. The tax situation, it's a nice place to live, oh, they keep winning cups, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, vitamin D. Look, I open up the front door.

How come we've never gotten pushback from the bigger market clubs that are not winning cups and that are seeing players leave for these Sunbelt teams to be like, the way to even the playing field is not to write into the CBA something about personal income tax, The way to even the playing field is to get rid of the salary cap so the Rangers, the Red Wings, the Leafs and everyone else can blow these teams out of the frigging water when it comes to how much money they can offer these players and compensate for the tax advantages that some

both teams have we heard that from the big market teams. Yeah, I mean, we might. The cynical view is even that enough. Like you look at the bigger market teams or teams like in hockey, you know, rabid cities. And, you know, across the board, like, has there been a deficiency in management and, like, a tenure of, you know, GM lives that have been longer than maybe they should have in those locations? And I don't know what the driver of that is, but you sort of average out, like, management talent. And then some of those, you know, Canadian big markets just seems like that's where the shortfall is. And so it might not just be like, we need more dollars.

It just means to be, like, we need more efficiency. And you're seeing that with, like, you know, guys like Evan Gould, who Jeff had on yesterday. and that might change things a little bit. Or, you know, guys down in Carolina who take a lot less money and do a lot bigger things. Like, I don't know if it's just, man, we're spending to the cap and we aren't winning. We need more money as much as, like, can you believe these contracts that we've signed for the last 10 years again and again? We've kept in place for a decade and missed the playoffs again and again and again. And I think that's where the ownership conversation might start.

And we're seeing a shift now in at least the summer and, like, different people coming into these GM. type rules and we'll see if Detroit's a little different. But like that just seems to be happening at least. Just the note to Canadian team, Steve is on LinkedIn. You can find his information there if you're searching for someone who might be able to help with your market inefficiencies. This show exists to get to get you back to top dog status here. That's what that's what we're trying to do.

No, but you know that, so that's, that's an interesting one because in Canadian, I mean, how many times have we ever heard this about, and it's not. not just Canada, but like big markets. Oh, you need a big name. Like, you need a show biz name. You know, I know that that's true in Toronto, which is why there was so much pushback on Caldubus when he was about to go to Colorado and Shanahan said,

like, okay, it's in your contract, you overloo. And that's the way that it went in Toronto. But in Canada specifically, where it is hockey mad, we focus, it's interesting, Steve, and now I'm thinking about this. Your point is a great one because we focus so much on, you know, the players and acquiring talent and big names and all these.

these types of, but from a management point of view, there's always the expectation that it has to be a big name as opposed to, as the way that I've been phrasing it, someone that thinks, you know, like we've talked about this on the show before. Did you play or can you think? What's more important? And it's always got to be that recognizable name that people are comfortable with and familiar with. Like, I put it this way.

Would the Maple Leafs have ever hired Eric Tulski? Probably not. Well, they hired Dale McHF. Probably, I'm saying as the general manager. They hired Kyle Dupus. They did, but again, that's why I went back to that he was the assistant general manager, and he was about to go to Colorado, and the deal in his contract was, if he was going to come back and match, that he was going to be,

he was going to become the general manager. But I think you know where I'm going. It needed to be like, it always needs to be like the big, sexy name. Look who the most successful GM in Canada is right now. Kent Hughes. Montreal. all agent. Like, is the problem the thinking of what each market expects as a general manager's

I'm just, again, this is the first time really thought about it in these terms. Is that the issue? That in Canada is the expectation that it has to be a big name running organization. I don't think it's a Canadian thing. Like even right now, if you look at some of these searches, you know, the current one is Detroit. And some of the narrative is, you know, they need someone who can make it a destination. They're shocked. They are no longer a destination. And I think the root cause of why they're not a destination is because, you know, they stopped winning.

And they had some, you know, some cultural issues between management and players. But like the root cause is they stopped winning. The root cause isn't good players didn't want to come to Detroit. It's that not good players did want to come to Detroit because they were offered enough money to come when they shouldn't have been offered that much money. And so a lot of it's just sort of like, you know, where is the noise coming from? And when you have big media outlets and, you know, fan bases sort of louder and more access than ever before, you sort of get that narrative of, you know, other things beyond the core root cause of, like, who can tell us to attract better hockey players and not to attract the wrong ones. And let's solve that first. And then let's solve for, like, more peripheral stuff of, like, you know, the player relations piece and all that other stuff you need to add.

But, like, to Greg's point, like, you know, tune out the Michigan. us. It's not that people don't want to come play here anymore. It's that we brought the wrong people and then we need someone who brings in the right people and then we can surround that person with what we need. And yeah, there just seems to be, you know, the noise again and again. And, you know, sometimes searches sort of go, you know, unexpectedly like we saw in Toronto, which wasn't sort of necessarily like the market choice of who people thought was coming. But yeah, I think there's just so much noise and so much pressure in some of those markets that you get, you know, so many people in the ears of the decision makers and it ends up pivoting to,

you know, maybe issues beyond the core of like, how do we assemble the best, you know, hockey players under a $140 million budget. And to, but to Merrick's point, like, the original sin for Detroit is chasing the big name. You can't fault them for hiring Eisenman. I mean, that's just like, you have to. Like, the guy had success in Tampa. He's got the legacy with Detroit. you can fault them for being for genuflecting to that big name through what was obviously a completely botched build.

And that's really why they're in the position that they're in right now. Can I pause on that really quickly? Just because I've never been in a position to make a hiring like this or any other hiring ever. When you're hiring someone in the back of your mind, do you not think, okay, what's our exit strategy if it doesn't work? that was the one thing that I thought of when Detroit hired Eisenman. I'm like, okay, he's going to have a longer leash than other general managers are because it's Detroit and it's Stevie Y. And, you know, the older brother, younger brother sort of vibe between Steve Eisenman and Chris Illich. Get it and the love from the Illich family.

Understand all of it. But are you not thinking like when you make that hire okay, but what is our exit strategy if it doesn't work? Like I've always sort of believe like you judge your organization. not by how they brought you in, but how they let you go. Are you not thinking that when you're bringing someone in? I think it depends. Like if you're the CEO of the team leading the search, I remember when I was like a junior lawyer in New York,

and we had just finished a deal, one of those deals, you know, company A buys company B, and there's all these terms saying, like, you know, if in five years we make this much money, we pay you this much commission and so on and so on. And we were looking at putting all the docs together to like make the deal binder that lives forever if you need to come back and be like where's this and where's that and the senior lawyer as ringworth looked at me he's like don't spend too much

time on this because this is what we call an iBG YBG problem what does that happen? I'll be gone you'll be gone like something happens right for my own. If I'll be working somewhere else by then let's go back for other projects so like it's just to say like you know maybe if you're the owner you're going to be there 30 years but if you're like you know the CEO you've had your two bullets that failed hires and this is number three, like this one needs to hit, if you know what it's on me. But yeah, I mean, it's just, I don't know, it's case by case. I mean, both the time you can't. I, by the way, IBG, YBG is going to become part of my lexicon like yesterday now. That's fantastic. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just a stop. Like, I know,

listen, I know that we're all wearing black on this podcast like Tim Burton's directing the podcast, but the, the abject pessimism, Merrick. Oh, I love it. Like, you, I love it. Somebody. He's great. And then immediately you're like, how am I getting out of this? This is like when you start dating somebody and your first thought is, well, if we break up, can I still go to this restaurant? This is, okay, just see you know, this is why. This is why I don't set goals. Like, that's why I say. Like, preface it all, like, I'm not hiring it.

I never set goals. I just wake up. I ask anybody. I have zero goals in my life and I never have. I just wake up and I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to do the best of my ability. And wherever life takes me, life takes me. I like surprises. That's why I don't want goals because I've never liked the idea of setting a terminal point.

on anything. I like surprises, and I just want to see where life takes me. I'm trying to scan those books behind you. You have to see how many are about goal setting, but I don't see any right now.

Well, there's one, yeah, there's one, there's one, actually there's none. You will find none about goal setting. It's,

because I don't, I never have. It's 25 different, it's 25 different copies of the fountainhead. Now listen, Steve. No, I can assure you that's not true.

Oh, I can assure you that ain't true. No way. I mentioned on, at the start of, the show was going to ask you about the Kauai Clippers thing. I'm sure you probably kept an eye on all of it because it is a fascinating sports story. First question, do Kauai-esque deals like that exist somewhere in the NHL?

I'm not saying no-show contract level, but I'm saying years away we might be able to give you that extra million you're looking for that we can't give you officially because it will count against the cap? Does that exist the NHL? And do you ever think as the cap keeps climbing and there are some teams that believe that we're going to hit 150 within like three or four years? Like, do you think we might end up with a Steve Balmer situation as the cap continues to climb and as these salaries continue to inflate? Hmm. I'm going to ask for the first part of your question very carefully. I think those types of deals get discussed. They may not get closed. But they might be get discussed and like hypothetically, purely hypothetically here, I'm just making something up.

You know, suppose you have a player on your team who's under contract for a bunch of years and he's hurt and he says he's not going to play again. And you think he won't play again. And another team doesn't think he'll play again either. And they might just want him for the cap space and the insurance coverage. But like what if he wants to play again? And what if the acquiring owner has to pay that player millions of dollars that he wasn't expecting to play? Like, would that owner think of calling the owner of the prior club and saying, hey, pal, listen, you and I both think this is a 1% contingency. But if it happens, can you make me hold on the back end? I don't know if those discussions have ever happened.

I don't know if they ever will happen. Wow. But if they did, they'd be analogous, right? And you can imagine that sort of living outside the CBA because he can't do that. Yeah. And you may not want it to block a deal because it's probably not going to happen. but it's like that line of royal tenem bombs, right? Like everyone knows, you know, Custard lost the war, but what if he didn't?

Like, everyone knows he's never coming back. What if he didn't? Like, what if he goes to Germany and Kobe? Whatever, you know. So I do think those conversations happen. I think that's especially hypothetical now that the coyote is relocated, but please continue. Okay, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Will that ever happen to an owner in the league? I don't know. like hopefully this makes everybody a little bit smarter maybe one day we'll have a podcast called like katy string finds out and it will happen but yeah it's possible you know money more more stakes it could i just can't i can't imagine i think that the inherent difference in in salary cap structure between the two leagues means that it won't happen you know what i mean like you know all these different tiers and levels the NBA's cooked up because they have a smaller roster. Like, to me, that's kind of symptomatic of why this sort of happens with the Clippers.

And if you are to believe the Clippers happens elsewhere in the NBA. And Lord knows, Steve Bomber might be creating a task force of his own to go after his brethren if this thing sticks. I just think that there isn't the necessity to have to do that in the NHL, whether it's because of the salary repression or just because of the way the cap is structured that I don't think it necessarily has to get to that point. And also, I think there are a lot less Uncle Dennis's in the NHL than there are in other sports. I was going to say it all turns on like who's the NHL's Uncle Dennis and, you know, there's always something looking to, it's looking to get like

that small extra amount of money that is shocking in the context of a much larger pilot that's put at stake. But like, yeah, all your other points sold. I think. How much, just curious, because you know, you were there as an assistant general manager, from your experience in Florida, how much stock did players while you were there put in, you know, one of the main reasons I'm here is because of the state tax? I think it was less so then than it is now. Like our roster composition was different than it was a lot of, you know, younger players.

It was more of like, you know, extending the Barkovs, who rose, trochecks of the, the world to their second contracts where I think the bigger decision point is, you know, do I want to stay where I am as opposed to, you know, what's the tax optimization on my UFA years at the end of this thing? So it was less a touch point. I think the same probably goes for Tampa at the time than what it is now. I think back then it was more like, you know, do I want to come here given, you know, the history of this, A, market not winning, B, the arena sort of being somewhere remote.

Florida wasn't like the number one destination in North America for everyone, you know, especially high net worth wanting to live like it is right now. So sort of that perfect storm wasn't there. But certainly you could craft deals around it and we did. I know like Julian and town at the time did that a lot. You know, putting together deals and saying here's what you'll get here. Here's the difference in another market. And, you know, it was always a way to, you know, make that argument.

And agents would push back a little bit saying, you know, Europeans can different. for using a different tax structure and this or that in some cases. But yeah, it was always in play just less so than it is now. And that's partially, I think, just a function of, like we're talking about, way bigger dollar numbers being a stake. And just a follow up. Why did it seem to take so long? I don't know if it took so long or it's a function of, you know,

it being more public or more, you know, teams being more competitive in those markets. like Carolina, Florida weren't as competitive, weren't as in focus. We're teams that were on those age lists back in the day. And so it's sort of, it's a secondary issue, right? If it's like, well, why would I go there? They don't win. They're remote, whatever. You're not even getting down to your agent saying,

here's how you save an extra 14% on your eight years there. It's just, you know, that's not even in the realm of where I'm thinking of one. That might have been a bit of it. I think it's more like people trying to figure out, trying to diagnose why this is. happening. I think that's why it became something in the forefront was just like, why do these Sunbelt teams keep winning? Why can't, you know, why can't Canadian teams win the cup? And it's because, ah, here we go. What do they all have in common? Well, it must be the taxes.

Last one for me, I don't know how much this is on your radar, but I'm curious to get your thoughts on it. But the big news in the last couple weeks from a media standpoint in the NHL has been the collapse of local broadcast rights, basically, and a bunch of teams running over to Amazon to put their games on the air there, some for free in the Columbus Blue Jackets Curious case for a large amount of money from their fans on a subscription service. From a front office perspective, any ramifications you can think of as far as like what all of this means for teams? I mean, the NHL kind of taking over the broadcast capacity for some of these teams.

Like, what does it all mean from a team perspective if that's something you're cognizant of? Yeah, I mean, as the former lawyer for Amazon Canada, I'm going to pause here for a second and take off my lawyer. I purely answer this. But thank you for that question. I thought you were going to say given the seismic changes to the Hockey League candidate crew. Yeah, I mean, it sucks, right? You want, like, one of the nice things about hockey is you have, like, continuity, right? It's generational continuity.

It's nice having new teams, but, like, you know, The coolest thing in Florida for me was walking in day one, and there's Denny Poppin in the booth. And Denny Poppin's two-in-er play-by-play on a local broadcast. But Denny Poppin had been the color commentary guy on a brand-new Amazon, you know, telecast. I don't know, but he was in Florida. And, like, that was one of the coolest things about working there. I remember on my wedding day in the room getting dressed. I call it as Denny calling about, you know, some trade or some player with my buddies.

And they're like, Teddy Puffin. Like, guys like that working the game make hockey cool. And, you know, spend 30, 40 years in the booth. and know everyone from the last hundred years and have all the stories. That makes the game cool. It's, you know, it's great having new faces. You know, my wife's a television reporter. It's great having younger faces on air and they should get more opportunity and all that.

But, you know, speaking as a fan and someone who's worked for a team and seeing, you know, the folks who have those jobs who have them for ages and ages and sort of operate in a traditional sense. Like AI hasn't impacted that. You got folks that walk into the TV booth and things. They've got, you know, their cue card writing out each player's number and, you know, what small town they were bored in and what they grew on their farms. I think we lose that a bit with modernization and focusing more on, you know, how many eyeballs we're getting and sort of, you know, the newest tech,

conglomerate, whoever that may be, buying up rights and talents. So hopefully they're sort of, you know, they keep some of the nostalgia in place. And certainly, like, what happened in Columbus is just, like, pure, unfortunate. But you hire the right people and maybe there's info ground there. I don't know. That's, I mean, America and I talked about this, like, last time we spoke about this issue, but, like, that's, that's for me the biggest thing. It's like, my entry point to hockey was the devils.

I think a lot of people's, most fans' entry point to hockey is their local team. And the last thing you want is for some of these teams that obviously, you know, had a struggling RSN that all of a sudden they're on something else. You got to keep it local. You got to keep it laser. focused on the locality. And that's the entry point for fans. And maybe they don't even have a frigging newspaper in their town anymore to be

able to cover the team. You know, this is where they go. This is the gathering point for local fans. And like the idea of, because Steve Mayers talked about this, like the idea of trying to like Trojan horse some national coverage into these local broadcasts is just not the way I think it works for hockey fans. And you can see it too about. How, Merrick, how long have we talked about the fact that the ratings stink in the

playoffs once your team gets eliminated? Because you don't care. Now, some of that is warm weather and beaches and kids on vacation, but a lot of it is also just like you care about your local team. Don't compete with patios, but that's why, and that's why I'll push back on this. I think that there still needs to be something, even in a local broadcast, that lets those fans that are watching Columbus, Carolina, Florida, whomever, at least give them some awareness of the bigger picture.

So when their team is out of the playoff picture, there might be still something for them to watch. to be involved in. You know, like Steve Gregg and I, like everybody else, grow the game, grow the game. There's two ways to do it. One is more people,

bluntly. And the other way is make a fan longer, right? Yeah, I was a bluejacket's fan. We didn't make the playoffs, but I want to see what happens with the Carolina Hurricanes, the rest of the way.

Like, that's growing the game at the same time. Like, keeping them in it longer. Like, when your team's on ESPN or TNT or Sportsnet, like that's when you're getting that. I don't, I get that. I don't, I just think fans find it, I find it repellent. Like, if I'm, if I'm a New York Mets fan and I tune into the Mets game on my local, you know, broadcast network and they're talking about like, yeah, no, but you're not. You're not, you're not offended if they show you like a Cincinnati Reds highlight. You're not going to like, you know, throw a brick. All I want to talk about is how they, they let Pete Alonza walk. It's all I heard about. All right, settle, settle the difference here, Steve.

I think there's a middle ground. Like, don't forget the kids, Greg, like my nephew's six, he'll watch any team. If he's watching, you know, Team A and they're like, here's a deep dive on McKinn and or Crossburg, whoever he's like, this is amazing. And he'll grow up like that. But I think, too, like, there's a, you know, there's a high bar somewhere where if you eclipse it, you probably get the eyeballs, even if it's the out-of-market stuff. And, like, the NBA has done that, right?

Like, I'm not even a huge baseball fan anymore. But when they have, like, you know, Shaq, Charles and Kenny on that TNT, like I-2-noon because it's just like it's great television. The basketball is almost secondary to it. And if you have the hockey equivalent of that and, you know, whoever that may be, and it's just like super engaging, super interesting, you know, maybe your local market team just isn't good or, you know, isn't exciting this year and you pivot to it because you're young enough and not jaded like we are.

You know, there's somebody somewhere, maybe. I don't know, but yeah, big fan of sort of keeping the old school way doing it. I love it. Steve, you're the best. Thanks so much for all of this. That was pretty wide-ranging. And your thoughtful on all of it, as always. Thanks, pal.

We'll talk soon. Yeah, thanks, guys. There is. Steve Rearer is the former assistant general manager of the Florida Panthers. I appreciate the tap answer on a landmine that that man does when he talks about some of the jobs he used to have or some of the jobs he could get. I mean, you think he's really good at it. But I also think it's not the thing I love about him is that he's careful, but he's not overly cautious and you get some good shit out of him.

Yeah. Like the idea that teams will cover the retirement of a player that got traded for capped reasons. It's pretty great. I had never thought about that one. Had you thought about that, that specific example before? Hey man,

you said he's not going to play again. I thought, not that specific example, but I started to think about like, in specific to Alex Petro Angelo, right? Like, if he actually tried to come back with Vegas.

and Vegas has their salary structure the way it's structured. Yeah. Like, what does that mean? Like, what did they, what do, how do they convince that man to not come back? I've often thought about. Wasn't this, wasn't this conversation around Colorado with Landisog? Yeah, but I think they, I think they kept the seat warm for him more than, than Vegas kept the seat warm for Petra.

But in the back of their minds, I'm sure there are moments where they're like, nobody in hockey's ever come back from this injury. True. No, like, we love him. He's our captain. It's awesome. Want a Stanley Cup with all of it. But no one's ever come back from this.

But I think, I think in Landy's case, like it was like, we hope he comes back. But I think, 100%. Yeah. It's kind of like,

what an advantageous thing to have happened at a time when we need to give out some contracts. Yeah. You know, in the pantheon of Vegas Golden Knights, I won't go as far as to say shenanigans, but cap, good fortune.

I think that's definitely on the list. But I do think that they're, I think if you ever wanted to come back, I mean, like, what do you even do? You have to get rid of other players. You would get rid of other players for a guy that was,

can't really go at the level that he used to be able to go. What are you going to do? Get rid of him? I don't know. I don't, that's my point. Like, we started talking about,

the off the book's machinations of teams. Yeah. And I'm saying in this case, what would have to happen for him not to come back if you wanted to come back? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Do you think, here's something. General manager, Alex Petrangelo?

I don't know. I don't know the answer. I have no idea. Okay, so here's another one for you. This is one that I've always wondered about. I think you and I've talked about this a couple of times. Do you think that right now a place? could be drafted first overall and live at the owner's house.

Or would that be considered caps for a convention? No, I think it's fine because I think in hockey, you know, in the grand tradition of billet families, right? Like you could just say that's the deal. The owner is actually a billet. This is billet dad. Yeah, the owners of billet. Yeah, he's just a he's trying to keep the kid out of trouble. And we're all like, oh, we understand that.

Oh, okay. Yeah, that's woven into the fabric of hockey. Okay. All right. That's one that I don't think it could happen. It has happened, obviously, but I don't think it could happen again. I think that was still in the air of like, well, we don't think it's wrong. That's part of the question.

You can live with the main thing. It's like learning about all the stuff. I mean, like the allocation of tickets and how many private plane flights you can, you can give a player before it becomes caps or convention. Like, it made me when I was thinking, when I was hearing about the private plane stuff because that was part of the circumvention argument with the clippers. It made me think of, okay, so when it, when an owner puts a guy on a private jet to fly him to go see his son being born or daughter being born, we never stop for a moment to be like that circumvention. Is it?

I don't know. Is it in the CPA that if if your pregnant wife is delivering your child, you can take a private plane flight and not count towards your, you're, you're, you're a lot. a lot of private plane flights you can take under the cap. I don't know. I've always, but that's the shit we don't think about until it, until it comes out that the, the team went over the, over the line as egregiously as the clippers did.

So here's one for you as well. As, um, we were talking to Steve about, uh, luxury tax, uh, changing the, changing the salary cap. Everything's linked to 50-50. Okay. Mm, it's probably not going anywhere. Even though you can make the argument that it should be more because players are both the employees and the product at the same time, but nonetheless, a conversation for the next

round of CPA negotiations. Considering all the money is already in the system, given that we're going to get to a situation here where you mentioned like between three, maybe to five years, the cap's going to be at 150, just astronomical. But a lot of teams aren't going to come close to 150. There's just not. Yeah. Even though salaries are still linked, all the money is still in the system, do you think we

would ever see a situation? where the league will allow the concept of cap cash to be traded. We have $15 million worth of cap space here that we're not going to use, said the, I don't know, take Columbus Blue Jackets. We'll trade that cap space to the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for two first round picks or a prospect or a player. The money is still captured in the system. There's no outside money.

You're just taking your cap space, which you're not going to use, trading it for something. I can see the logic behind it, but we'll never see it. Because part of the – but why? Because part of the cap dogma with the National Hockey League via Betman and via Daly for 25 years now has been – or 20 years now has been competitive balance and fairness. And the idea that a team can acquire. more cap space through trade is not in keeping in the spirit of the cap, which is part of its cost certainty and part of it's also competitive balance. The vague term, the vague term of spirit of the CBA, the Colvichuk deal, didn't transgress

the CBA, but the spirit of the CBA. The spirit of the CBA. The spirit of the CBA. It allows, it allows, yeah, I know, I know, I know. I don't know what jazz is. I know it when I hear it. Fish doesn't know what water is until it's out of the water. I get it until it's on the beach.

I don't know what CBA's circumvention is, but I don't want to say it. But it's helping those smaller market teams that aren't going to use that cash anyway and giving them something. And theoretically, should make them more competitive with those resources they get for exchanging their cap space. I don't, I think your spirit of the, of competitive balance argument is, dwarfed by their argument for competitive balance, which is that everyone works under the same financial system and a cap means you don't spend more than that. Which is, and again, I know, listen, I get it, but like you have to also remember that like the whole, all of the things they just put into the postseason are breadcrumbs that lead back to

that central argument, which is that we don't want you to spend more than we allow you to spend. And as long as that is the central dogma of the financial system in the National Hockey League, they're never going to allow a team to trade cap space. I don't disagree with you. I just want to make sure that things like this are always part of the conversation. Because maybe so there's someone like way, way smarter than me because there are plenty. I'm happy to admit it. That can take that and say, yeah, Merrick, but take it one step further.

And here's the one. And here's the one step that I'm missing. That's why I want to keep stuff like this pumping. because there are smarter people than me that are out there that are saying, yeah, look, dummy, over here too. And that's another reason I can't believe there aren't more advocates for a luxury tax. Where is the coalition between big market teams and absolute morons that know they can never be as smart as Eric Tolski that band together to be like, just let us spend over the cap? I have a theory.

Where's that coalition of the willing? I have a theory. I have a theory on that. My theory is this. And Bravo, he did it. Like Gary Bettman did it. But if you go back to, you ready for it? 1994.

Okay. And that lockout. NHL wanted a luxury tax system. This was still wide, wide open Wild West in the NHL. And one of the things that the then executive director Bob Goodnow, the Players Association, convinced, convinced Gary betman of was that him and the owners were smarter than the NBA and they could run things more efficiently and they didn't need a luxury tax. They didn't need something artificial. They were

smarter than that system. So they didn't need that. And that's why when 204 rolled around. And I think that Batman kind of looked at that eventually went like, okay, I was a rookie commissioner. I was in my second year. All right, you got this one. You won this one. I think a lot of what ended up happening was like owners realize you got to own the buildings and these types of but but i think i think that i think that that one always was always in the background that you know what enough of this got me on that you fooled me on the luxury tax but i'm going after hard cap and i'm getting your job you will no longer be executive director and i'm getting a hard cap and you know what he did it he did it i also did it the betman part is also essential because betman likes the cap

and if Betman likes something, then the owners, even the most powerful among the owners, are not going to push for it. Because. We don't have playoff expansion. We have a salary cap. Betman has his guys that he's put in place.

He's got the numbers. And this is the system that he likes. And I think those owners know that even if, let's say James Dolan is like, I would rather have a luxury tax so it can outspend the Florida Panthers. It doesn't matter because there just won't be enough support for it. the reason again it's presented publicly as competitive balance

the reason the NHL loves the cap and the owners love the cap is it increases franchise value and that's it and that's it and that's the job that's the that's Gary Batman's job increase franchise value the minute that was agreed to franchise value started to take off they got it they got it they got it and I'm going to keep auditing 204 205 although things happened then, we still see playing themselves out now. But I do think the luxury tax thing, I think the luxury tax thing goes back to 94. I really do. If you and I pooled our resources, you sold all your stuff, I sold all my stuff. There was probably a time we could have purchased the 32nd most valuable team in the NHRA. Maybe when John Ziegler ran it. And the whole thing

was being run on Bill Wirtz's yacht after about 18 scotches. Maybe. Maybe we could. could have been in the running. Did we leave anything on the mat here, so to speak? I don't know. I'm trying to think if there's anything else in the teaser that you put that we didn't get to. I mean, the Quinn Hughes stuff is... Is there anything, Zach? The Quinn Hughes stuff we got.

Do we get to the Quinn Hughes stuff? It's been such a little show here today. We didn't really talk about it. Again, your stuff with Joe earlier this week was great, especially the montage at the beginning. He made me go back and listen to those interviews that Garin did. Oh, man. The two things that struck me in those interviews are, first of all, like, I, I,

I can't read the guy. Like, I mean, he obviously is saying they're in negotiations. And you feel as though the more he says they're in negotiations, the greater the chance he's going to stay with the wild. And then the nuances of those negotiations are the fact that the team wants to probably get him at five, like Craig Leopold said in that national public radio or municipal public radio interview that he did. And then Quinn wants to sync up with Jack's free agent year. I mean, that's just, that is my reading of the tea leaves. I know nothing in the way that Russo and Joe Smith know. But to me, that's kind of what the nuance has to be, right?

Like, they want a certain term. Quinn wants a certain term and they don't know how to bridge that gap. I think that's part of it. I also do think, like, from the player point of you, I think Quinn wants to know what this team's going to be. I really do. Well, in what sense? Like, it's going to be him and Caprisoff. No, I know.

But like, are we going to be a competitive team? Are we going to be a Stanley Cup team here? Like, what do we have? I think part of this, too, is like, look at what Minnesota's been doing. It's like, it's the same thing in Vancouver. It's the audition to keep Quinn. He had the Vancouver Canucks Tap Dance forum and bring back buddies and a coach that he liked, who was then an assistant turned head coach.

And even still, it wasn't enough. And right now, ever since, you know, acquiring Quinn Hughes, it's been Operation Keep Quinn in Minnesota. So you think the question, so you think his hesitation in signing through 2030, I guess it would be, right, is, or 2030 or whatever Jack's free agent year is, you think his hesitation is, are you guys going to get a center or not? Are you going to win? Yeah. Is this going to be a winning team? Don't forget where he came from.

Like, he went through some miserable, miserable years in Vancouver. Now, Minnesota is much different, run much differently. ownership is like so much is different but at the end of the day I don't think he wants to be part of anything that's not a winning environment and it's just hard to imagine it's all kind of falling apart though i mean Vancouver fell apart one because of a personal beef between two-star players but also but for a myriad other reasons in minnesota's case your pillars are him boldy caprice off a really deep blue line i mean i i mean my my question would be like how are you going to solve the middle in a conference where you have to be good in the middle

in order to win. You have to be good in the middle. But beyond that, it's a murderer's row down in the middle. Vancouver. They're not going to be Vancouver. No, they're not going to be Vancouver. But you don't think that he has scars?

Scars from that? And I want to be in a winning environment. But when Garan talks about Quinn having made his money, which by the way is really funny because like, as if McCar didn't make his money. And now he's making a $160 million more of it. Oh, I'm fine. Yeah.

Sure. But like when he talks about Quinn having made his money and having different, different, you know, goals in life, I just assume that's playing with his brothers. You know what? I assume that's like whether or not the team could win. I assume that too. There's another side piece of that, which is when he's comparing him to Kail McCar and other thing, Kail McCar has already won the Stanley Cup. To me, that was an element of, well, yeah, he's going to get the bag. He's already got his cup.

Quinn hasn't won the Stanley Cup yet. so maybe cashing in for the top dollar isn't as important as, sure, being paid hampsomely, but also being in an environment where you can win the Stanley Cup. That's also how I read. Quinn, again, Garin's a real character. I'm happy that he so stand up and gave all those interviews at the Minnesota. It's amazing that he did to the Minnesota State Fair. Like there's somebody doing a butter sculptor over there.

There's someone deep frying Oreos over here. Pig race. Bill Garin talking about Quinn Hughes's future. Huck was awesome. But again, like, the idea of just like you've made your money and now you have different priorities, you've never, this is, first of all, Gary is the guy who like famously held out and screwed up his national team participation by doing so. And then the other thing is like, you know, yeah, he made his money. These guys all made their money, but they all want more of it. Like, it's just like, I don't know.

It's an interesting time. Hey, Craig Leopold. I'm not hit the panic button. Hey, Craig Leopold. You've already made your money. Why don't you cut ticket prices in half? You've already made your money. Yeah, right.

I agree with Joe. Like my spite. Never happened. My spidey stance still is that he's going to re-sign with the wild. I mean, I know there's a lot of devil fans that are kind of like trying to, you know, flip over some tarot cards and figure out if he's going to end up there. Same thing with Hallibuck.

By the way, in both cases, don't you wish you had a little Simone Nemich to throw into one of those deals? Like, would that make life easier on either of those fronts if you're the devils? but I think he's probably going to stay in Minnesota. I think it's just a matter right now on what term it's going to be. But you think the money is in between Celebrini and McCar? Oh, that's the other thing. I don't.

I think he's going to make more than McCar. He's going to take that extra $400,000 or is it going to be like $500 more? $500 more. $500 more? I told you. I know. I know. In what world did we've decided that he's,

going to not, he's going to make somewhere between Celebrini and McCar. Like, why would, if Quinn's whole thing is I want to play with my brother and instead it's going to be, I'm going to commit the next three years beyond this one of my life to Minnesota, like, you best pay him more than McCar. That'll be,

that'll be interesting. Because then we have more drama to talk about. Because then it'll be the, again, it'll be the Macar versus Hughes, who's a better defenseman conversation based on what number he ends up taking. That's another one. Wrenski's like, Me. I'm the best defense.

I was glad you put that in your piece. And by the way, the piece that we're referencing here is Gregs at ESPN.com. Winners and losers of Kail McCar's $163.2 million contract. Columbus, man. Don Waddell looking at the Kail McCar deal. If they're nickel and diamond fantilly to the start of training camp, like, it's September 3rd. There's no way in the hell.

hell they're going to give Werensky the money that he's going to get at his next deal. And maybe they shouldn't. I mean, he's going to be in his 30s by then. I mean, who knows? But like, he's going to shatter the bank, that guy. Yeah. Or he could get slash take less if he goes to Dallas. Like given, okay, so given what the number is now,

how much does that, again, fuel the fire that the Columbus Dallas deal may not be dead? Because now the other intangible is this is what these elite guys are getting. And I don't know if I can bring that number back to my owner. I mean, you had to kind of figure it was going to get around there, even when they were talking about that trade, considering we all knew Macar was going to probably be the guy with the two in front of his number. But we did, but at that point, did we? Did you really think the McCar was going, until we got into August,

did you think that's fair. I think after Leo Carlson, I, after all of that started to play it, play it. itself out and then Celebrini signed his ticket. Then we started thinking, you know what? Maybe we're at 20. But at the time when that trade was being proposed, that wasn't part of the equation.

Now it's part of the equation. I don't know, man. How'd you like to take that number back to your owner? Pure Columbus. I know we have made the playoffs in 20 years, but this guy wants $25 million a season. Welcome, welcome the NHL. Expansion owner.

I've been here for him. Okay. Zach, anything else really quick before we punt? Because it's been a long one. I know we had a little technical. The only thing left was, did you guys want to talk about the SEND slogan?

Oh, yeah. The hill we choose. Ottawa senators apparently have. The Ottawa senators, again, like this is about the geography. This is about the Ottawa.

This is about Ottawa. And we choose to be here. This is us. The hill we choose. What is the history of this? You said it was from an interview or something? No, no, no. There's an interview online that I just read.

Graham Nichols interviewed Peter Shire, who is one of the marketing director. Sorry, president of, sorry, VP of marketing for the Ottawa senators. And the idea is that it's about, but, blah, blah, hold on, hold on, hold on. It's time for the sends to. put a stake in the ground after three years of Michael Landlauer owning the team, whatever happened before Michael, everybody knows what kind of went on there. He comes in, puts his feet on the ground and establishes himself in the community,

willing to invest. This is a sort of pride campaign for Ottawa. Yeah. We choose to be here. This is insane. It's such a terrible slogan. First of all, when I say the hill, your mind then fills in what blank? To die on.

To die on. That is the blank that gets filled This is our hill to die on That is in reference to the city itself I know what you're trying to see My first place where I went Was the line from Godfather 2 With Hyman Roth talking to Michael Corleone

This is the business We chose Or something along those lines When he's talking about the murder of Mo Green Wasn't it also the line In the naked gun where Frank Drevin goes I know the love of two people doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but this is our hill and these are our beans. That also makes me think of that.

The other thing, too, Merrick, is like the miracle of AI is that it's sometimes replaced Photoshop and its ability to create graphics. And I wonder who was the first one to hastily replace the I and Hill with the letter E when it comes to the Ottawa Senators? The hell we choose. This is the hell we have chosen being in with. the Ottawa senators watching Brady Kachuk leave for the sunny shores of Fort Lauderdale running through the myriad of possibilities of where this franchise is headed in its wake the hell we've chosen is being in the Ottawa senators community I don't know I get it I get it like first of all I don't know here's here's I'm glad to mention Brady Kachuk here's the question I would have would this be the

slogan if Brady Kachuk hadn't decided to leave? Absolutely not. Is this a reaction to everybody who said Brady Kachuk was going and we all said that they were idiots? We were wrong. And back to the ones, Merrick. Yeah. The hill he chose was Capitol Hill and going to the State of the Union address. He chose the wrong hill.

Ottawa has chosen this hill. And that's where they plant their flag. I have a lot of friends that are really proud to live in Ottawa. And I actually like Ottawa. But then I like government towns. I like Washington. I like Ottawa. I like these places.

And I get that people that live there tend to get their backup about it and feel like they're almost in a consistent defensive posture about it. And this is a reflection of that. You're talking to a guy from Jersey. Like, I completely understand civic pride and getting your backup when people insult your locality. I completely understand that. I just wish they had a better slogan as all. The hell we choose. The hell we chose.

Oh, geez. Cynical American. Cynical American. All right, you, we'll talk to you next week. Hockey's coming up. Nice training camp. It's coming. It's coming.

and bright real quick. Four games. Yeah, we'll have to figure. I'm a player media tour boy next week, so I'll have to figure out timing on things. So you're not going to be broadcasting from heaven anymore? You're coming back down to earth. There's no heavenly backdrop for you. My friend is getting here tomorrow, so assume it's going to be.

Then I start the real project Merrick, which is the construction of the new podcast studio. What's it going to look like? You have an idea? I don't. I have been, I've been noodling through some possibilities. I think it's going to look better than, you know, me being stuck two inches away from a shelf with toys on it. But I haven't figured that out quite yet.

I got to do some with this set. I think it's fine. No, no, the book, part of it is like an inside, to be honest with it, part of it is like an inside joke. And you know what that joke is? What's that? I was always taught that if you want to make someone look smarter on television, put glasses on them and books behind them. Oh, absolutely.

I mean, I didn't wear glasses. This is like, this is like, this is like, Like the little trick. Oh, books, it must be smart. Oh, glasses must have read the books. He must be smart. Yeah. A little visual trick.

Not true. You're satisfied. You've got a mint green gum wall. Yeah. You've got a thing behind you that looks like somebody in a high school metal shop created a thing for you to put your books. Looks great. I don't know. I just want to put pictures up there.

But you know what I want to put pictures up of? Everybody does like the championship pictures. I want to do like the pictures of like second place or pictures of failure. Pictures of failure. Everyone does like a Jordan shot or you know, Marty Badoro gold medal. Like anything, no, no, no, no. So you know, you don't want, you don't want Michael Ruzioni. McKinnon and Miss Net, Zach says, McKinnon Miss Net.

Yeah, I want the McKinnon Miss. That's perfect. Give me that picture. These are the moments. This is where you learn. This is where the soul is. mistakes are where the soul lives. So there you go.

McKinnon missing the net, the buffer slug. There's so many other. We could work on this. What do I need? Everyone could do that, yeah, look at the championship stuff.

I'm going to get the rub from all the big stars and all the big plays and all that. Look at me. I'm a champ. There's no learning there. There's no learning. The shockmaster falling through the wall. All the things that are brought to you from failure.

Shockmaster. I hadn't considered that. Oh, Shark Masters are good. Okay, we've got some noodling to do. Enjoy the rest of your day in heaven, Greg. Thank you. Thank you, my children. We'll talk to you soon, pal.

Talk to you soon. There is Greg Wischinski from ESPN and ESPN.com. Really quick, we've got to wrap this one up because it was a long one. Anything from you, Zacharoo? No, we got it to everything. Otherwise, congratulations to our boy Robert Thomas, named the 25th count. We should mention that. We should mention that.

We should mention that. A friend of the podcast, Robert Thomas. It's, listen, it was a challenging year last year for him, as we all know. So good on him. As, you know, Alex Thien now is the general manager of the team. I really do wonder about St. Louis. And could they? Because every year there's like one or two teams that fall out that you don't expect.

Last year was Winnipeg. And there's always one team that jumps up. that you don't expect. And again, I always try to caution myself not to put too much into what you see in like the last 15, 20 games of a season when there's no playoffs on the horizon. St. Louis looked good.

And that line with him, Holloway and Snuggaroo looked at times like they were the best line in the NHL. Not saying they're going to be the best line in the NHL, but they sure looked like it at the end of last season. So we'll see. Yeah, I think statistically as well,

they put up numbers that was among the best. best line of lines around the NHL towards the end of the season after the Olympic break. I'm pretty sure St. Louis as a whole had one of like the better stretches over that course of time as well in there where we all thought

hey maybe they could pull us off so it'll be interesting but I saw a picture that St. Louis had put out like 10 minutes ago I saw this of the leadership team. Boy do those teeth look white. Not a boy Robbie. Those teeth look white.

He's got the best teeth, like to the point where it's like, I know guys only put on the bird cage when they get hurt, but like, protect those things, man. I know. Those are good looking white teeth on Robbie. He's got the smile going to see on the chest and like, holy, you look like a million bucks brother. Adavoy, Robert Thomas. I hope he has a great year. We're still one of the best playmakers in the NHL hands down. I wish them all the best.

as always. Okay, that's it from us here. We are back next week, Tuesday, I believe, here on the, on the Nation Network, on our daily face off YouTube feed, wherever you get your podcast as well. Thanks to everybody listening, everybody watching and everybody in the chat. Thanks for putting up with us for the little interlude of, I don't know, four or five minutes before we got things back on track here. Thanks for sticking with the property. Tip your Zamboni driver on the way out. Thanks for the buns and the use of the hall. The sheet is off the air. We are back next week. unless there's like some big huge breaking story, then we'll pop hot an emergency podcast.

In the meantime, enjoy the rest of your week and weekend. We'll talk to you next week.