The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Leafs Hire Jim Hiller & Eric Tulsky Joins the Show ft. Brian Burke

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

The NHL offseason is officially underway, and the fireworks have already begun. On today's edition of The Sheet, Jeff Marek is joined by Brian Burke to break down what could be one of the wildest summers the league has seen in years. From blockbuster trade speculation to front office decisions that could reshape contenders, the duo dives into the biggest storylines around the NHL. They discuss the Toronto Maple Leafs making headlines with the surprising trade that sent Joseph Woll and Simon Benoit to the Philadelphia Flyers, what the return means for Toronto, and how the move impacts both organizations moving forward. They also react to the Leafs' unexpected decision to hire Jim Hiller as the franchise's new head coach and examine what his coaching style could bring to a team under immense pressure to win.Later, Carolina Hurricanes General Manager Eric Tulsky joins the show fresh off a Stanley Cup championship season. Tulsky reflects on building a championship roster in Carolina, the organization's long-term vision, and the key decisions that helped bring the Stanley Cup back to Raleigh. He discusses the acquisition of Logan Stankoven, balancing analytics with traditional hockey evaluation, managing a modern NHL front office, and how his unique path to becoming a Stanley Cup-winning GM has shaped his approach to team building. Plus, insight into the Hurricanes' championship run, lessons learned along the way, and what's next for one of the NHL's model franchises.📺 Subscribe for more NHL news, trade rumours, Stanley Cup coverage, Maple Leafs analysis, and exclusive interviews with the biggest names in hockey.#NHL #TheSheet #JeffMarek #BrianBurke #EricTulsky #TorontoMapleLeafs #LeafsNation #JimHiller #JosephWoll #SimonBenoit #PhiladelphiaFlyers #CarolinaHurricanes #LoganStankoven #StanleyCup #NHLTrades #HockeySHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼 Canadian Blood Services: https://www.blood.ca/👍🏼 Ninja: https://www.sharkninja.ca/ninja-crispi-pro-6-in-1-countertop-glass-air-fryer-rose-quartz/AS101CRS.html?utm_source=Meta&utm_medium=Paid+Social&utm_campaign=H1NinjaCrispi&utm_content=NinjaEN&dwvar_AS101CRS_color=cdb9b8Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!#NHL #TheSheet #JeffMarek #DavidPagnotta #TorontoMapleLeafs #LeafsForever #JosephWoll #SamuelErsson #EmilAndrae #PhiladelphiaFlyers #VegasGoldenKnights #JohnTortorella #CHL #DanMacKenzie #MemorialCup #HockeyReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Okay, the news coming fast and furious. Toronto Maple Leafs have a new head coach. It is Jim Hiller. We're going to talk plenty about that. We'll talk about the trades from yesterday. And we got an interview with Eric Tulski coming up here at the bottom of the hour. Welcome to the program. Once again, this is Wednesday, June the 17th.

Glad to have you aboard the sheet today. Zach, get hot here for two seconds. Here's the star, ladies and gentlemen, of Marley, Zach. As we saw yesterday, big victory. last night the Marley's over the Chicago Wolves. They grab a commanding 3-0 series lead at the Coca-Cola Coliseum, Easton Cowan, Toronto Maple Leaf's first-round draft pick with the heroics. And then afterwards, you got out the smelling salts on Marley's after dark.

I was on there for about 30 minutes and loved it. It was great. Well done. Quick before we get to the blueprint for the show and we get to Brian Burke here. Quick thought on what you saw and covered last night Marley's and Wolves, A.L. Calder Cup final 3-0 Marley's. that Marley's team is a very cohesive team. They play very well together from top to bottom.

They get a lot of contributions throughout the entire lineup. But by far standouts, and I think the one will come as no surprise to anybody. Easton Cowan, obviously. I was pleasantly surprised with what I've been seeing at a Ben Danford. Like, this is a kid who's playing in the OHL, made the jump to the HAL with, I believe, into their playoff run here. So he's played 12, 14 games, something like that in the,

the HL here now. And he looks like he fits in. Like he has no issues. He's playing power plays, playing penalty kill, he's very relied upon. As a Leafs fan, it was like,

all right, you got something here going on down there with the Marley's. So it was fun to watch. John Gruden, the coach of the Marley's. He is not the big news of the day. Big news yesterday is

Marley's grab a 3-0 series lead over the wolves. That is the H.L affiliate for the Carolina Hurricanes. And speaking of Carolina, their general manager will join us. Coming up at the bottom of the The hour. The blueprint is powered by Fanduel. Download the app today and play your game on Fan Duel. Coming up on the program, we are moments away from hearing from Brian Burke. His thoughts

on Leaves Hiring, Hiller, Maple Leafs, Philadelphia, a flyers trade. We haven't had his thoughts yet on the Carolina Hurricanes winning the Stanley Cup. We'll get there. We will also talk, speaking of Carolina. To Eric Tulski, recorded an interview with the Carolina Hurricane's general manager earlier this morning. We'll play that for you. And we'll talk about all those things you can see on the board. Leifes hiring Hiller. Preds acquire Ross Colton. And Colorado, by the way, in the process, picks up their own third round draft pick.

You wonder about, dun, dun, tant, da, offer sheets. Cotter, Gritzik, New Jersey. I'm looking your direction. Before I get to Brian Burke, this. This segment is a presentation of Canadian blood services who invites you to experience what giving feels like. In a world that can feel isolating and divided, blood and plasma donation offers something rare and fulfilling.

Real connection, real purpose, real impact. Every summer, people across Canada get swept up in the excitement of the season and donation routines can slip, but the need doesn't. This is a moment to rally together as a nation and for new donors to experience firsthand what you get when you give. At a moment when many Canadians are looking for positive ways to show up for one another, Canadian Blood Services is issuing an invitation to new donors, fill every donation chair in the country this summer.

Book at blood.ca through the give blood app or call. 1-3-8-2 donate. That number again, 1-888, the number two, donate. Do it. I do it every three months. I encourage you to do the same. And speaking of blood, Zach, when there have been some great moments in hockey history where we've seen, we've seen some bloody players,

and we think about Rocket Richard and that. famous picture as well, shaking hands at Center Ice after a Stanley Cup playoff series. But I got to tell you, one of my favorite blood pictures. I don't know if we have this one ready to go. Do you have this one of Brian, Burke from the main days? Let's have a look here. And we'll get the story from Berkey. This is not how you are supposed to give blood, Brian.

You sit down, they give you a cookie, a cup of water, maybe some orange juice. You get a nice little needle. The whole thing's done. You squeeze a ball for seven or eight minutes and it's all done. Burkey, before we get to the news of the day, that was you with the main Mariners of the American Hockey League. What is the backstory on that one? Oh, there's no great story. I have my gloves on, so it can't be a fight.

It was a teammate of mine. We used to practice when we played out on the road. Yeah? We didn't wear our game sweatters. So we were in Halifax. We were practicing. We were playing a game after the practice in my mariner's sweater. And Drew Callender, a teammate of mine, got me in a face with a stick.

And we're all going to the movies that afternoon. I was yelling at it. Son of a picture, I yelled at it. I looked so maxed and yelling at. I was mad that I couldn't go to the movies. You had to go get stitched up so you couldn't go to the movies with the guys? That's all. It's a great story.

And it's a great picture, too. There have been some great shots of you over the years. And that's right up around there, around the top. That is, again, not the way to give blood. one triple eight to donate is the way you can get in. I know that you've done plenty of that over the course of your life as well. I continue to do it every three months, as I mentioned. Okay, Brian, I want to get to your thoughts on the Carolina Hurricanes and the Stanley Cup final,

the Vegas Golden Knights, the final that we just saw. But the news of today, the Toronto Maple Leafs making a coaching higher. And like this one was under heavy security. Like there were, there's no leaks. Like this one was a shocker to. Everybody. Jim Hiller. We understand the Toronto Maple Leafs interviewed, you know, tens of different coaches. 10, 20, 30. I'm not sure. Jim Hiller ends out on top. Formerly, the Los Angeles Kings was an assistant coach with Toronto Maple Leaf, certainly. Started in the NHL with the Detroit Red Wings under Mike Babcock. But you have an affiliation with him going back to Chilliwack of the Western League.

What can you tell us about Jim Hiller? Well, we hired Jim Hiller. I did not have much to do with it. I'd like to take more credit for Jim Hiller than I can, but I won't because I shouldn't. We hired Jim Hiller to coach in Chilliwack. Daryl Porter, the late-grade Daryl Porter was running the business at the time. He brought him Jim Hiller. We all approved him.

We all liked him. Got to see him play. I got to see him coach a couple times. I don't know. I didn't know him well at the time. I don't know him since then a little bit. I think he's a top coach and a top hire. I like it.

You know, it's interesting because, you know, right away the reaction is, oh, look at how he coached the Los Angeles Kings defensive, 131, all those types of things. If anybody knows anything about Jim Hiller, first of all, he coached to the roster that he had. That was a core that was aging. They're trying to slowly bring in some younger players. I still maintain that he was coaching to the roster that he had. He's more offensively minded than this one. The other thing that I was told is when he was in a. assistant coach with the Maple Leafs, good with the kids, good relationship with Austin Matthews,

an analytics guy, I believe that's how he met Mike Babcock. He was selling him on, you know, an analytics company, either his or one that he was, one that he knew about. But anyhow, like, when you look at the bio, it really does check a lot of boxes here for what the Toronto Maple Leafs are trying to do with their head coach and the whole organization. He's got familiarity. He's got an analytics background. He's got familiarity with the podcast.

players. He's a good coach. He's an accomplished head coach, an accomplished assistant coach. This guy has a full resume. This is a good bet. I like this hire very much. When a new coach comes in, the first thing you wonder is, okay, so what happens to the people around him? Does he bring aboard a whole new staff? Sometimes, you know, managers like to at least leave one assistant coach from a previous regime on the bench. What do you think happens here? And from your experience, like how often are you so advised or encouraged to leave one from the previous regime? Well, we wanted to leave one when I went to Hartford, and we couldn't. Because Garcia-Gare left our team.

I went to become an assistant GM, which is he stepped up from assistant coach to assistant GM. So he couldn't tell him he couldn't go. But in general, you want to leave one if you can. But I've also told my coaches whenever I hired a new coach, bring in anyone you want. it's not time to give you a list right now. I remember I went to work where Gary Batman, he asked me, I said, you can't replace anyone I want? I only had two people on the staff.

He said, you can replace where we want, but I really like Mr. Gregory to stay. I said, don't worry here. Jim Gregory's not going anywhere. Mr. Gregory, I felt. Yeah, yeah. Well, we all did. Like, we were just mentioning off air a couple of seconds ago.

Just a quick thought on Jim Gregory. I love the general manager's award is named after him. So his name will forever be in circulation. Maybe the nicest man in the history of hockey. Maybe the nicest man ever. No enemies. He worked 50 years in hockey. No enemies.

I had 20 enemies after I've been there a month. Okay, so the other, that's a great line, Berkey. The other story around Maple Leafland is the trade yesterday. So Joseph Wall goes to the Philadelphia Flyers along with Simon Benoit, Emile Andre comes in 59, 510, smaller defensemen and Samuel Erson. Look, I look at this one and say,

this is a trade for Cap Space, that I don't know that he even bother qualifying Samuel Erison. Their goaltending seems to be set. They love the Actiyamov kid and Hilda B needs waivers next year. Emil Andre can probably see being up and down between the Marleys and the Maple Leafs.

I kind of look at this one, Berkey, and say, can't evaluate this trade until you see what John Chica does with the Capspace because this is a trade for Capspace. How does it look to you? I think it's a little better than a trade for Capspace. I like that I think he's talented. He is smallish. He's going to have trouble playing a lot against big units around the road where they don't get the last change. I think he's a good player. He's a smallish guy, but I like him anyway. I like his brain. I like his thinking. They might be better than they think. But yes, Joseph

well, good player, good kid, hurt all the time. Big cap. It's a good trade to get the cap's place. But I think Andre's going to help more than people think. When you look at, because these are two moves now, so we've seen a trade from, and we

should put Matt Sundeen into this too. Because Matt Sundin is there in a manager's role as well. As I was mentioning yesterday, Berkey, interesting that in Sundin's first movie brings in two Swedes, discuss amongst yourselves. But So this is the first major trade we've seen out of John Chaka and Matt Sundeen and the other big move, of course, the coaching hire with Jim Hiller. Managers sort of give you clues about what they're all about.

You know, management groups give you clues along the way. And now we've had one trade and one coach hiring. Is there anything we should glean about how this management group plans to run this team? I think the first lesson would be it appears they know what they're doing. I would say positive grades on the trade, positive grades on higher. That's all they've done so far. All you can judge them by so far is what they've accomplished. So there might be critics or doubters out there.

But so far, they've done well on both of their first transactions. And they've got the first pick overall. I think they can do something with that too. Do you think they just, I mean, I don't think they put it in play. I think that's, they're just going to make the pick. and it's, you know, 99% going to be Gavin McKenna. That's the safe thing you do. The safe thing you do is to take Gavin McKenna.

Everyone knows that. But there's no generational player in this draft. If they're not shopping this pick hard, and John Teck is not doing a good job in my view. The safe thing you do is do nothing. Just take the best player. Everyone agrees he's the best player. Good fit for Austin Matthews.

That's not the safest thing, though. Saviest thing is shop that pick till you drop. Is that what you'd be doing right now? I would already have been doing it for a month since they had the lottery. I did not have the first overall pick and I got the Cediz. I got the first overall pick. What could I do that? So, I mean, they got to be looking.

There's no generational player. There is no player in this draft that you take it and say, that's a sure bet. Gavin McKinnis is as close to the comes, but all the rest of them are just good players. And Gavin, Canada, has got some daughters, too. So there's no generational player. There's no Sidney Crosby. No McAnselebrini, no Mario. So, okay, shop the pick.

What if you can get Stenbar? What if you can get, Stenbar? And another first. Why wouldn't you do that? Why don't you look at that? Why is it, Brian? Because we talk about this every year. Every year we talk about, oh, this is not safe.

It's not safe. That's why. Everyone's afraid. The Twins trade worked out so well. Provert trade worked out so well. I burn that market right to the ground. People are saying, well, look what happened to Burkey. What happened when Berkey got that guy.

I don't want to be that guy that is in a footnote, even though the bold trades made perfect sense for the GMs involved. So everyone's afraid now. Don't be afraid. Make a deal. At least explore. That's a great PSA for all general managers out there in advance of the draft because we always say,

you always speculate on big trades and making this move and jumping up and then everyone just goes and makes their pick. And we say, okay, we're not going to be fooled next year. We're just going to assume that everybody makes her pick. And we get lulled back into trade fantasy. But the thing about this summer is, and we're already starting to see it. Like, look, Nashville got together with Colorado. So Chris McFarland gets back with his old boss, Joe Sackick,

and they make a deal yesterday for Ross Colton. So it does, and then there was a Flyers deal with Toronto Maple Leafs. Like, it feels like we are headed in here. Now there's more cap space. to a summer where we will see trades and we might even see offer sheets as well. What do you make of this summer? How would you characterize what you think is going to happen?

I think there's because there's no free agents available, there's one or two, Alex Stuck and maybe one or two others. Darren Radish. I think there to be, Darren Raddick, they're going to be gross overpaid wherever they go. I think the best way to make a deal now is to trade. And you've got salary cap space and you can make more great like the lease just did. but I think that your best bet's going to be offer sheets and trades.

You know, I was ready to make one in Toronto. I'm ready to make one now if I'm then. Would you have offer sheeted Boston on Phil Kessel? I told him that. I met with Pete Chorale the night before we did the deal. I said I'm making up, I traded Jimmy Hayes, the late created Jimmy Hayes. I got him back. I traded that pick away.

I got that pick back. And I said, I said to Sam. moment. I'm going to do an offer sheet. I met with Peter Shelley. We had a beer at the fours, the old sports bar next to the garden, gone now. And I said, Pete, I want to keep you informed up to the last second. I'm off-ersheating Phil Kessel tomorrow. I got my pick back. I'm off-sitting him tomorrow. So let's make the deal. And we did. So one of the things that raised a lot of eyebrows about the Ross Colton deal was Colorado got there, own third round pickback.

And I think we all looked at this and wondered, like I think the compensation, let me grab this for a player at the number 2.387-832. So essentially $2.4 million offer sheet will only cost you a third round pick.

And two of the names that you would wonder about are both in New Jersey. Arsini Gritsick and Paul Cotter. Colorado just got their third back. When you get something that back for a reason. Like, very specifically, they wanted their own third, Berkey.

And they love Ross Colton, too. They traded him reluctant to get that pick back. Everyone loves Ross Colton. Yeah. That's a good deal to get your peck back. And that raises his eyebrows immediately about an offer sheet. I agree. And the league did not

properly index these offer sheet. The compensation for signing understricted free agents has been moved up but not sufficiently. It's not enough of a deter. now it's a green light. You want the guy, do it. Listen, I think we're all wondering about,

like we'll wonder about, you know, Leo Carlson, for example, with the Anaheim docks. You know, how many different teams would be willing to part with four first round picks for Leo Carlson? I would imagine more than a couple considering where this guy is going. But listen, Anaheim's got the cap space,

but if you supercharged an offer sheet for the first one year, year you just go max, are they going to match that? Like, this somewhere could be fascinating. This could be fascinating. You better get a really good player right away for four first. Other than Leo Carlson. I like little first.

I don't know. I like them. I like them that much. No. We'll see. So Ryan Craig was just announced as the new coach of the Vegas Golden Knights. This dovetails, of course, the Vegas Golden Knights announcing that

John Tortorella will not be back. We've wondered about this even going back to when Torto Rella was brought in initially. It sounds like this was the plan from day one after Bruce Cassidy was dismissed. And the announcement comes moments ago. Kelly McCriman announcing Ryan Craig will be the fifth head coach in Vegas Golden Knights history. He has been on the bench before in Vegas as an assistant coach, has been recently coaching the Henderson Silver Knights of the American Hockey League. Did this one surprise you?

Like a lot of people look at it and go like, Torto Ruella just took him the Stanley Cup final. A couple of games away from winning the Cup, and they don't bring them back. Well, it surprised me. The speed of this move shocked me. The notion that they wouldn't spend some more time trying to sort this out and see a torts one shocks me. That's Vegas. Vegas does what they think is best right away.

They don't care about what people think. It's a beautiful way to do business if you can get away with it. And the point is if you can get away with it, they don't really care about people's feelings, nor should they. I say I have some admiration about Kelly. and George. They just do what they think is best for their team. Ryan Craig is the quality coach. I like it.

I don't like the fact that John Torella got kicked to the curve that quickly. How quickly, should we say, if at all, because now Toronto has been filled, we await the Mike Babcock situation to come to a conclusion with Edmondson. But how quickly does John Torderella find another job? I love Torts. I work with him three times. So I love him. I work with him in the Olympics and work with him at the World Cup,

working with the World Championship. So I love the guy. He's a great guy. I think as quickly as he wants to get back. But right now, you play musical chairs until they sort of cast these situations, aren't too many chairs moving around right now. You might have to wait in the fall. Really cool.

So Gary Lawless just tweeted something out. Really interesting. Kelly McCriman, let me grab this here for you, Berkey. Kelly McCriman tells media at his season-ending availability that he has already granted a team permission to speak with Bruce Cassidy and he will deal with it on a case-by-case basis going forward. Well, I don't think it's Vegas. I really don't.

You mean Edmondson? I don't think it's Edmondon. I really don't. I think of hard feelings there. I can see them still blocking the Edmonton Oilers. Like the point that I've been raising here, I remember when I used to do the old pod with Elliot, we had Foley on and I said,

like I love asking owners this question, Berkey. I always say, if there was no salary cap, how much would you spend on players? And no owner wants to sound cheap, obviously. And he wants to say like, oh, I'll spend a kajillion dollars. But without missing a beat, Foley said $150 million.

Like he already had that in his mind, like in his back pocket. So I don't think even the idea of keeping a good coach away from a division and Stanley Cup rival is anything other than to Bill Foley the cost of doing business. So I can see him sitting on Cassidy for the year to keep moving away from Edmondson. I think that for sure is going to happen. I don't think there's a lot of them go to Edmondon. I think there's some hard feelings here. Some other things that have happened that we don't know about that I do, but other people don't.

and there's been some steps taking it would make it hard for them now. I think it's going to be a different team. I don't think it will be Edmund. I hope I'm wrong. I hope Yuri Bettman gets involved and talks some sense into these people. I know that this isn't the preferred course for the NHL.

They're saying all the right thing. I'm not an expert at contract law. And everyone that is that I've ever talked to have said Vegas is not doing anything wrong. But there's the legal way. to do things and then there's just the agreed upon way that they do things in the NHL. Yeah, they're not doing anything wrong.

That's true. I've said that from the start. Butch has to weigh his turn. He's not, no one's violating any law. No one's filing any policy, but it still smells funny. The fence.

Still looks weird. They've done enough. They didn't win the cop. They kept Butch out. Now it's time maybe to mend that fence and figure out what to be done. How do you see the Babcock situation? Right. now. I think they're going to run out of time. I think they have to

do this quickly and that's not how the league does things. He's going to tell, I think Gary Bevan's going to tell him it'll take at least 60 days. It's probably too long in the way. Wow. And you wonder then if that's the case, which way the Edmonton Oilers pivot. Okay. What did you make of the Stanley Cup final? Like, I'll, I thought, I'm with you. The games were great. Here's how I've always judged finals. The two best Stanley Cup finals

I ever saw 87 Philadelphia and Edmonton Just a banger of a series 1994 Vancouver Canucks and New York Rangers was outstanding hockey Like that's the high mark for me So you got to get seven really competitive games in We got six great games in this series

I don't know if you have like a favorite Stanley Cup final in your past I'm guessing 2007 would be right up there but like how would you measure this one off against some of your other favorite Stanley Cup final series? Well my favorite was 07 but that's not my favorite one to watch we only lost five games so it wasn't a great final. It was a great team and it's fun to watch the way we played

but I think Boston in 11 goes up there too that's a great one. I won seven games the first team mentioned. I like seven game series. I was disappointed that the Carolina couldn't force the seven even though I think they deserve to win the better team won

happy for Rod Redmore he's a wonderful coach better guy I'm happy for everyone about it but I still wanted that six game at least to the seventh game yeah seven would have seven I'll tell you what like

I had one player texting me say like considering all the the media oxygen that the Knicks were sucking out of the sports page it was going to be tough to get a headline that this was a This was a league that needed a seventh game to get it as far away from the next championship as possible. But nonetheless, Carolina does this one in six. Consmite's trophy to Jordan Stahl.

You probably could have also made a case for Taylor Hall. You could have made a case for Logan Stankovin, I think, as well. Your thoughts on Jordan Stahl and is 12 points picking up the Consmite trophy. Well, I think what people were lucky is 12 points and 7 goals or 8 goals, whatever he had. this guy played great defense. He was a great face-off guy. Great four-checker, great eliminator, great neutralizer.

Fantastic defensive player the whole time. He still put up that offense that was so meaningful and so important. He deserved it for sure. This is a team that could run it back again. Like there's a couple, like Nick DeLoree, still without contract. Freddie Anderson doesn't have a contract.

but like this is a team that could just say you know what everyone's pretty much locked up here we're going to run it back and I always Berkey I always remember something that Glenn Sather would talk about when his Oilers were the best team in the NHL and winning Stanley Cup after Stanley Cup and this guy's going to the Hall of Fame and that guy's going to the Hall of Fame Sayther would always say you got to keep it fresh you have to change your team by 10% every year right just to keep a freshness about it you know there's a lot of rings in the room you got to have some guys that don't don't have rings, got to have guys that are hungry in there. If you're the Carolina Hurricanes, like how, even though everyone's all under contract, essentially, how are aware are you of we might need to keep things fresh here still? I think you still have to. We never repeated, so I can't give a logical or learn of answer about this.

We didn't even come close to repeat. So we're not regarded as one of the great teams ever, even though I think my team could have beat every team that's beaten that's one of a cup since we've. won the cup up to at least Washington. So we could have won at least 10, 12 years in there again, I think, have we been able to. But we didn't keep it together. We had Stateni and Nirmar and retired and then came back.

We didn't keep it together. So you have to change a few things. But talk about running it back, I'd say they have as good a chance as anyone, which means very little chance. So it's a tough, tough, tough thing to do. 16 and 3. Like, did we just see one of the best Stanley Cup performances?

out of any team in the NHL in the salary cap era? Yes, for sure. 16 and 3, it could have been worse. They could have won one or two more games. It was remarkable the way that Carolina did this. Final, now that this season is done, like more of our conversation is going to revolve around the draft and trades and, as you mentioned, offer sheets and all this kind of stuff in the offseason.

When you look back on this season that was, Carolina's on top after all of it, the number one team. As you always mentioned, I only give out one cup. I know you check with the league on a daily basis. I get that. What's going to stand out to you from this season? Like the big stories for Brian Brooke that you followed? Well, I think Carolina is always a big story.

And also, the way they've done it very methodically, a coach that stuck with it, they made systematic additions to address the shortcomings. had. They did a really scientific job of putting the team together. And that would be the story for me. Then other stories, there's a lot of other stories. Vegas. I had the whole Olympic thing.

It was a great year. Yeah. Buffalo Sabres. You want to throw them into the mix? Like what story? Montreal. Yeah. A lot of stories.

Every year there is. Great one. And a great season. All right, Brian. We'll talk in seven days. Thanks for indulging us in your blood story from the Maine Mariners. I wish there was a fight attached to it, but still a funny one nonetheless. Which is a better story.

It's Drew Calender. We'll go down in infamy. By the way, what drill were you running? That we cut a high stick in the head. We're running the gauntlet after practice. Why were you doing a gauntlet? Yeah, they were carrying a puck using their feet along the boards. The guys would cross-checked him and punch them.

And Drew just came up and stick wood up off my shoulder. caught me right in the eye. I was sour. What are you doing, Gauntlet, at the end of practice for? It was a little different back then. Time was different, certainly. What movie did the guys go and watch, by the way?

I don't know if you remember that far back. What did you miss? It was probably a black and white. It was probably Laurel and Hardy. You're the best, Berkey. You'll be good, pal. We'll talk in seven days. There he is, Brian Burke.

NHL general manager. and oh you know what I didn't ask Berkey about hockey night we'll get into that next week with with Brian Burke the end of hockey night on CBC By the way I've had a lot of texts about this too just to clear that one up again

I think I mentioned it yesterday there will still be hockey on Saturday nights in Canada it's just that hockey night in Canada the show will not be broadcast on CBC and I am curious to see what happens now with that brand which is owned and controlled by CBC.

Does that now become the banner for the PWHL? Hockey Night in Canada ends PWHL action instead of NHL. I don't know. But we shall see in the next little while what happens there. Again, the news of the day started off with the Toronto May beliefs finding their coach, and that is Jim Hiller. Also the news of the day is Ryan Craig, is now the new head coach, as we've been talking about for a while here,

of the Vegas Golden Knights, and as Gary Lawless tweets out, the Vegas Golden Knights have granted a team permission to speak with Bruce Cassidy. So the Maple Leafs have their coach. Edmonton is waiting to see the fate of Mike Babcock here. So does that mean that there is another team out there that is considering firing their coach

and bringing in Bruce Cassidy? If Vegas has now, as Gary Lawless mentions, Kelly McCriman detailing this, it is season-ender, they have granted a team permission to talk to Bruce Cassidy. We shall see where this goes, as we like to say here on this program. Okay, so from one general manager, we're going to shuffle to another here, but not before we tell you about this segment, which is a presentation of the Ninja Krispy Pro Countertop Glass Air Friar. Get faster, crispier results at home or on the go with legendary Ninja Air Frying Power.

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and see from Carolina Hurricanes general manager, Eric Tulski, who we had a chance to speak to earlier on this morning. Quick thought on what his canes were able to do in six games against Vegas. Because you're watching the American Oculeague affiliate. Right now, face off against Marley's and the Chicago Wolves. Bradley Nadeley, Go, go, go.

How funny it was, too, last night, that the team that won the draft lottery, their HL team is playing against the team who just won the Stanley Cup in the Calder Cup finals. Like it couldn't have been on more polar opposite ends of things when it comes to their big clubs. But as far as the hurricanes go, you know, I talked about how the Marleys are a cohesive unit.

That word doesn't even begin to describe what we saw in Carolina. Like that's one of the best team. Machine. Yeah. Machine. machines built team effort winning Stanley Cups I've seen in a while I think about the Florida Panthers being in that category but just from top to bottom and the fact that you know it's just everybody buying into what Rod asks of them and then even further what we heard from Rod where it's not just Rod asking it of them it's the guys in the room asking of it of each other

it's just incredibly impressive and something that you know I think in the moment I was lucky enough to kind of pinched myself after a couple of the rounds and be like, you got to recognize like what you're watching right now. And it was just an incredible team that was built in Carolina. A couple of deep cuts after they won, references to a theory of ice, references to MC79 hockey and a deep one, NHL, Eric T.

That's Eric Tulski. Back in the blogger days. Here he is on the sheet from an interview we recorded earlier this morning. First of all, Eric Tulski, congratulations. I was speaking with T.J. Oshy the other day on the other podcast that I do. And we were talking about the time in the series, when he's playing for the Washington Capitals against Vegas, where he realized we have this. We got it. They're broken. This series is ours. And he said it was in the first game. In the third period, guys were chirping, guys were beaking each other.

Like the team, like Vegas just didn't seem together. And he went back to the bench and said, like, guys, we got this. Was there a moment for you? I know you're not on the the ice. But was there a moment for you where you said, we got this? Yeah. So, I mean, the moment where you know for sure and you're celebrating, like, that's the empty net goal, you know, game six makes it three nothing. Truthfully, the moment where I felt good about it. Um, so after game two of round one, I told somebody on our staff, I wanted him to collect a puck for me from each round. I just, I had a good feeling about this team.

So back to Ottawa. So Game 2, Ottawa, you said, you think we have this. I was like, you know, this is going to be a special run. I won a puck from each round as a souvenir. Is there any specific reason why, or is this just a feeling? Just a feeling, I mean, our team played so well this year. You know, we went through a brew. run of injuries in the first half of the year and came out of it in first place.

And we didn't lose back-to-back games from January on. And Ottawa, you know, the narrative in public has been rewritten a little after our series. They were a really good team. Like, they were one of the best teams in the conference and playing incredibly well down the stretch. And we took those first two games and it was just like, we've got it going on right now. Like, you know, you never know what's going to happen with injuries or whatever. but that team we're just playing so well. 16 and 3.

I mean, the numbers do speak for themselves. I always have to laugh, Eric, when I hear people giving advice for people that are going through their Stanley Cup run, and the advice is always, oh, make sure you enjoy it. Make sure you enjoy it. It's a good time. You're going to look back on it, and you're going to want to be remembering all the good times. bluntly, is it possible to enjoy yourself during all this?

Because all I see and I imagine myself going through that and I'm just seeing like balls of stress. Like is it really possible to enjoy all of that? Yeah. So I have felt more stressed in past years than I did this here. You know, through this whole run, I just had so much confidence in the way the team was playing. it was just a matter of seeing it play out and like you never know how it's going to go

but I mean part of it going 16 and 3 we never hit that point where it was teetering right that's not quite true so in in the final I will say the first few minutes of game 4 so we're down to 1 we need this game right

and the first few minutes I felt a little bit tense that was about it for the whole run. Most of the time it was just this team's playing so well. Let's enjoy it and see how it plays out. What an incredible way to feel. Have you or have any of your staff members, players, to your knowledge,

allowed themselves now to touch the Prince of Wales Trophy? Yes. Is that allowed now? Is that okay now? So funny you say that. So the, I don't know people know this. Like after the conference final, it gets delivered to my office in a locked trunk. I'm like, well, this is pretty cool, right?

I'd like to have it set up, but, you know, the team chose not to touch it. Yeah. So on Media Day, I went and grabbed one of the leagues people and was like, I want this set up in my office. I'll show you. It's right over there. And I got it in my office. And, you know, so I had somebody from the league come set it up because, like, the players didn't touch it. I can't touch it. And so, you know, I had people come in, take pictures and it's like,

no touch it. That's amazing. One of our, one of our staffers' kids is, you know, a little rambunctious. I'm like, you got to have a hold of him. He can't touch it either. But yes, now there's plenty of fingerprints on it. It's like one of the things we made a little joke about is, hey, everyone who wants to touch it now. Come on in. So did everybody touch it, or is there still like, is it still like the boogeyman? Yeah, I mean, you know, like I, it's anybody who comes into my office now and it's like, oh, check that out. It's like, hey, you can touch it now if you want. I've got, this is like, what I want to do here for a couple of tweets is like the opposite

of mean tweets because the minute your hurricanes, and I'm not sure whether, you know, check the feeds and search your name on social media, but there were some outstanding tweets that were out there. One that I think, and we'll open up with this one, just want to get your comments on a couple things. I'm pretty sure, and we'll fire this tweet up here for you, I'm pretty sure that the College of Chemistry has never congratulated anybody for winning the Stanley Cup. Do you have a thought or a comment on the College of Chemistry congratulating you, once a bear, always a bear, now a champion? Yeah, that's great. I actually heard from several professors from Berkeley who were congratulating me

and telling me they were all watching it. It's neat to have that sort of support from a community. It's something I've really felt from our fans here and it's fun to have it from the communities I was in in my past lives too. Did you search your name? I mean, you're trending and you have been trending for

a couple of days. Did you indulge yourself and going through the comments about you? No, there's too much to do right now. Like there's a lot going on. There's a draft and free agency and we've got a really good team, but we still got to find ways to make it better. I do not have time to sit around right now reading about what people are saying about me.

Okay, well, we have. So one more that I want to show you here, and this comes from a former assistant general manager with the Florida Panthers, Steve Weirier. What's neat is that when he eventually became a GM, Eric Tulski, the outsider's outsider, surrounded himself in her front office with women and men just like him, bloggers, lawyers, computer people even, and it worked. Is that accurate? Yeah, I mean, I, we look for people who are.

thoughtful and creative and willing to take risks and able to communicate well. And we don't really get hung up on their background. Sometimes playing career can be an asset when you're trying to move into scouting or development or whatever it is. But it's not the only asset people have and we're willing to look at people outside that that pool of talent to try to make sure we're not missing anyone and make sure that we are giving opportunities to talented people regardless of their background. The one name that comes to mind when you say that, and by the way, I think a lot of people

feel the same way and a lot of people watching this will say like, you know, thank you for recognizing people that haven't just followed that traditional I played and this is going to be my path and eventually I'm going to work in a front office. But the idea that there are other people to be seen and valued, everybody holds a piece of the puzzle. We've all heard that one before. The one name that I keep coming back to is Ellen Etchingham. And I will, by the way, Eric, never forgive you for that blog now being off the internet because it was my favorite blog to read, a theory of ice, which was brilliant, just a brilliant hockey blog. How does Ellen, I'm super happy for her. How does Ellen Etchingham find her way to the scouting department of a Stanley

Cup champion team? Yeah. So we knew we needed to hire a couple of scouts. And I'm always looking for people who might have the ability and might not have gotten a look otherwise. I actually reached out to her and asked if she was interested in going through our process. You know, I had read her work. I knew she was a very strong communicator and felt like she had also shown an eye for the game. When we have, so the process we go through when we hire a scout, we have them write reports that somebody blinds for us. And so we had, I don't know, eight or ten or twelve people write a couple of reports. and five of us internally read through them, grade them, rank them, share our thoughts,

and narrow it down to a short list. And, you know, her reports were as good as anyone's. And, you know, then you start thinking, okay, this is someone who's never written a scouting report before. Right. And if the reports they're doing now are already on par with people who've been doing it for a long time, like, who knows where the ceiling is. And she's been great for us. are they i always imagine that ellen etchingham's scouting reports are profoundly different than

everybody else's she's like bluntly one of the most creative people and thoughtful people and educated people i've ever met in my life um are they profoundly different than other scouting reports that you've read yeah so our our reports in general i think are unusual in some ways we ask our scouts to write really detailed reports that get into a lot of sort of distinct elements about what they saw in an individual game and then also get into how they fit their game viewings together into an overall profile of the player. She is especially good at communicating the nuance of what she saw. You know, it's not just he did this well.

but you get a feel for exactly how well and where it worked and where it didn't. And, you know, she's a strong communicator. She also sometimes likes to let a little bit of her writer's voice creep in, and that always makes for a more entertaining read. And so, you know, I enjoy that. But in the end, it's about how you see the game. She sees it as clearly as anyone. Let me ask about a couple of your players here.

I was pointing out the night that you won the Stanley Cup but Taylor Hall just did something that no player in the history of the game the NHL stretched back to 1917 has ever done. He became the first player to be drafted first overall, win a heart trophy, and then win a Stanley Cup with three separate teams. It's been a strange career arc for Taylor Hall. Do you have a, a thought on him, what you've seen through him, through his NHL,

career. Like, there are a lot of times where people said, like, okay, like Taylor Hall is on the back nine here. He can see the clubhouse, et cetera. Obviously, you and your staff didn't. Do you have a thought on Taylor Hall and what was it about him specifically that you said this guy can play on this team? Yeah, I mean, obviously as a lot of talent and a lot of skill, our scouts did a lot of work to evaluate his game and how we thought it would translate to the way we play. And, you know, we found ourselves seeing him as somebody who we thought could come in and play well. We also, we always do a lot of homework on what the, what the player is like as a person and as a teammate.

And we had a lot of strong reports that the good thing about someone who's bounced around a lot is there are a lot of different sets of teammates and coworkers to talk to. So we heard from people with a lot of his former stops that he was somebody who, you know, would fit in here and needed that chance and needed to be in a place where he felt like he could win a cup. And, you know, we brought him in and he from day one was, he was aware that all. lot of what we were asking him to do was new for him and wasn't always coming easily. And he was asking questions. He was putting in the work even when he wasn't getting it right

initially because it was new to him. It wasn't because he didn't care. It was because it wasn't natural in yet. And he was spending the time, you know, darn it, I missed this. I got it. You know, I got it now. Next time I won't make that mistake again. You know, he was committed to his craft and trying to make sure he brought a complete game to the hurricanes. In the end, he had a huge impact for us this year. Logan Stankhoven, forever we'll be revisiting this trade. We used to call it the Ranton and Trade. I'm sure everybody now calls it the Stankhoven trade

because he's a Stanley Cup champion. I know that that was a tough one for Dallas to make. There is a relationship with Logan Stankovin with the owner of the Dallas Stars. going back to his minor hockey days and like, look, there's a reason he was a Camloops plays. There's a reason he was a Dallas star. I know that was the player you really, really wanted in all of this. When you were talking with Dallas on Rantan, was it Stankhoven or you were going somewhere

else? Like, was that the guy you had to have? Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't remember exactly who said there's always a bunch of back and forth, so I can't answer that and be 100% sure. But I know he was the, you know, when we first talked to them, he was the person we asked for and the one we wanted to try to build a deal around. I, you know, he, we had scouting reports on him that were, you know, very complimentary of him as a player and as a fit. Our data team was really high on him. I haven't told this before. I've said we had somebody on our team who said, you know, that guy's.

made to be a hurricane. I never said who because I, you know, if something goes south, I never want to have a staff or, you know, feel like they ate it. But now that he has sort of met and exceeded all expectations, I'll go ahead and give Chris off fine credit as the person. So he's our video coach. And he was the one who said, you know, if there's, you know,

his line was that guy is a Carolina hurricane. I don't know how else to say it. And, you know, we had strong scouting reports. We had strong reviews from the data team. I didn't expect him to be the person that the coaching staff wanted because coaches always want size and physicality and toughness. And the fact that they, you know, that Chris picked him out as someone who he said, that's the guy at one.

You know, we knew, you know, we've got unanimous across all our groups that this is the player. So that was where we focused. You know, that's interesting because, and I'm sure you do this as well, I'll ask you, do you do this? Like, in your mind right now, because we did a lot of this throughout your run, look at other teams and pick out the players who could play on the hurricanes. Like in the last series, you know, we would have the conversation on the show like, oh man, you know, William Carlson's so great on the Vegas Golden Knights. I could see him as a carol. Like he has those attributes. When you look around the NHL right now, like in your mind, do you have an idea of right now who can play on the Carolina Hurricanes from all 31 other teams?

Yeah, I mean, most people can. I think there are a handful of people who are ideal fits. There's a lot of people who would be good fits and would come in and do just fine. There's a small number of people who are ideal fits who are going to come here and, and look better than they ever have before. Those are the players we have our scouting stuff trying to dig up and highlight for us and sort of identify these are the guys who you bring them in

and everyone's going to say, wow, I didn't realize how good he was. That's another conversation that's happened, you know, as a sidecar to your run too, is that it doesn't just seem like players get better. They do get better, whether it's Walker, K. Andre Miller, Gull, I mean, Taylor Hall hasn't played

like this since New Jersey and the Hart Trophy. Why? Bluntly, why? Why do players just get better with Carolina? Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, that's what we're looking for. You know, we're on an extraordinary hot streak, and I, you know, we're, I think we've turned over 12 players in my two years here, and if we're not 12 for 12, we're pretty darn close, and I don't want to take too much credit for that.

There will be some that won't work out, and that's part of how it works, and I will enjoy the fact that they've been working so far. But what we try to do to put the odds in our favor is we really have our scouts focusing on how we play and what skills it takes to be able to do that and who has those skills. And someone might be playing in a team that plays very differently from us, and they look good, but we say they don't have the skills that you need to look good here. Or they look just okay there. And you say, yeah, but you know what? Like he's going to look better here.

And that's, you know, that really is our focus. And we're never going to be out a thousand. We've been on a hot streak and a lot of credit to the people doing that work. But that's part of why the team was so good this year is because we've been fortunate that everything we've done is, you know, worked out. You and your staff take a lot of time measuring, right? And you talk a lot of data points and collaboration. Nothing's done frivolously.

I think it's safe to say with the Carolina Hurricanes. But there's a word that I want to bring up to you and get your thoughts on it, and that is belief. So I was without any hockey other than Chicago, Toronto to watch last night in the American Hockey League, Calder Cup final. I was watching an interview with Rodney Mullen, skateboarder. And he was one of the, maybe the greatest skateboarder of all time. Not that I know a ton about skateboarding, but this guy's fascinating to me.

And he talked about how we have a culture that says, if it can't be proven, it must not be possible. The best people are striving for tricks. And then one guy finally does it, and the rest follow like Lemmings. Like the word belief, like we live in a world where I think we're understanding now that at a certain point, there's an intersection between like art and science or art and math. Like beauty becomes mathematical. Mathematical becomes theoretical. Like we're seeing all these intersection points.

Where does the word belief or does it even resonate with you? Like where does the word belief fit into what you do as as manager of the Carolina Hurricanes? Yeah. I mean, in this sport, there's a lot of stuff you can't know for sure. You know, you just can't. You can have a belief that this young player is going to develop the way you want him to, but you don't know until five years from now when you see how it's played out. You can have a belief that this player's skills are going to make him look better on your team,

but you don't know until he's been with you probably for a few months and seeing whether he really fit the way you wanted. You can have a belief that this personality is going to fit into the locker room and help out well, but you don't know until you see him interacting with his new teammates. It's just a lot of things that you do, you can't know for sure until it's done in the history books are written. You have to make your best guess, and you have to have belief in a process and an approach and a way of doing things. trust that they won't all work. They really won't.

But if you keep taking your chances and keep trusting in your beliefs, you'll get more right than wrong and end up ahead. How often do you, this is like kind of, it feels like at least online, a sort of victory lap for bloggers and for bloggers from a very, very specific era, many of which, you know, are employed by the Carolina Hurricanes. So it does feel like a victory lap of sorts. How often do you allow yourself to look back and see what you wrote in like 2014 and go like, oh, man. I don't feel like that anymore.

Do you ever let yourself go back there? So I don't spend time going back and reading what I wrote. I have a pretty good memory for what I wrote. There are definitely some things that were a little bit off. There are also some things that held up better than I would have guessed. and, you know, 12, 14 years a long time. And most of that stuff should be outdated by now, but some of it didn't hold up.

Do you, because one of the things that I always, that I'm always warned about is the various models that are public, NHL teams are well past that. Like, well, I'm always told, like, take everything that's public with a grain of salt because at the team level, their light years past that. Is that accurate? it. So yes and no. I mean, I don't want to make it sound like we just think we're way smarter

than everyone else. I don't think that's true. There's a lot of smart people in the public domain. What we do have is better data than the public has access to. And the NHL play-by-play averages an event every 10 seconds and 10 seconds in eternity in a hockey game. The puck can go from one end of the ice to the other. And, you know, somebody had an analogy, maybe it was you, actually, I don't remember. Somebody in an interview told me they had heard an analogy that it's like turning the lights on and off. And so once every 10 seconds, you flick the lights on and see what's going on.

You don't really have a very clear view of the game from that. And teams have access to data where you're flipping the light on and off every second or where you are using player and puck tracking to flick it on and off 50 times a second. And the more information you have about a game, the easier it is to analyze. I've always wondered about that too. Here we go. Is it possible to have too much information to the point where it gets really cloudy? And you find almost that you're so frozen to make a decision

because there's just too much noise, too much info, and that maybe the main goal of all of it is, we just need the sharpen pencils here. And like, Michael Angelo, I didn't create David. I just removed the parts of him that weren't him, that idea, right? Art by subtraction. Do you find that that's a major challenge now with what you do? Yeah, so, I mean, ultimately my job as general manager is to take all the information.

information we have and integrated and make a decision. And that includes stuff from the data team. It includes scouting reports. It includes coaches' opinions. It includes the views of my management staff. All of that is information of different kinds. And it's my job to integrate it. To do that, you have to be good at living in a world where you're going to have conflicting

information. You're going to have data that says this guy's pretty good. And a scout who says he doesn't see it. and a coach who says, I heard some bad things about him. And, you know, you're going to have to be comfortable living with uncertainty, living with conflicting information, and sort of sorting through it and making a best guess. Okay, one more question, so I know you're busy. The fun stuff, do you know what you're going to do with the cup the day you get it?

What does Errolski's day with the cup look like? Come on, you haven't ever thought about that, what I would do with the cup? So it's still We have a short summer this year So figuring out even when I'm going to do it Is still a challenge, much less where Right. Is there one player

I know they're all your children And they're all special But is there one player That you were really happy for Like Eler scores the empty netter And you're like, I am so happy for that guy Knowing the real answer is everybody But is there one for you

Or maybe someone on your staff, I don't know Maybe it doesn't have to be a player. Yeah, I mean, so the strong feeling you have year after year, you're looking at players like Jordan and Freddie and Taylor, who have been doing this for a long, long time. And, you know, at some point, everybody starts to wonder, is it ever going to happen again for me? And being able to give them that moment and have them give it to themselves, right?

Each of them played great in our playoff run and put us in that position. Having them able to do that and get that chance and know that, you know, they got that before things came to a close. And, you know, maybe again, maybe two more times still, but at least they got that one. Right. That was, you know, it's just, it's really good to be able to see people get that moment. That's a really nice thought. Eric, congratulations to you, your staff, the whole organization. organization. That was exciting. A legendary run, really exciting hockey. That was a banger of a final.

Just such a fun thing to watch. I'm glad you could enjoy it along the way as you mentioned. And thanks, as always, for being so candid. We appreciate it here. Thank you. Had a good time. Thanks for having me. Okay. Zach. So there's a few people there. So I mentioned Ellen Etchingham and a theory of ice. That to me was the best hockey blog I ever read. And Ellen came to hockey really late. She's from Chicago. I met her at McCormick Arena through someone who was playing in my league.

They were a couple. She was his partner. And I was like, I don't fanboy much at stuff about meeting players. But I'm like, and he was like, yeah, she's going to come pick me up after the game. Like Ellen Etchingham is coming because I've read her blog forever. And I was such a fanboy of it. And like I mentioned in the interview with Eric, I will never. forgive him for that blog being off the internet because it was the best hockey blog that i ever read

but again like comes from a very non-traditional background and i'll throw in um dennis k as well like there's there's another person um when you look at people that come to working in hockey uh coming from the blogosphere with educated opinions and style right because let's not forget to like everybody on that stuff has their own style, right? Hockey has one very traditional specific style. And the thing about Tulski is he surrounds himself with people from different backgrounds that look, sound, feel everything different, right? And that is, as Tulski will say, that is part of the strength of the Carolina

Hurricanes front office and the decision-making group. And it's not to say that there aren't like traditional hockey guys there. There certainly are. And there are plenty of them. Tyler Delo, I want to park on really quickly here. So Delo used to run a blog, call that MC79 hockey. Actually, Dennis used to write for it as well, too.

And he, along with Eric Tulski, quickly sort of distinguished themselves as two of the best. You know, must read, must follow, just measuring the game in different ways using a different kind of hockey language. and I can tell you for a fact, and much of this is still available online. But these guys, by mainstream hockey media, in that era, were absolutely ridiculed, nonstop, hounded, called all kinds of names, all of their work, kicked to the curb,

discounted, not valued, all of it, publicly humiliated. Like there were, you know, I've heard a lot of stories about, you know, very, put this way, very mainstream hockey names that you will, that everybody knows. I'm dancing around this one, very mainstream hockey names that everybody knows, ridiculing them to their face over their work in things like car rides to the rink. and now those players have, those people rather, have Stanley Cups and will have their name on the Stanley Cup. I think of a, just to make this show even more pretentious because they already referenced like Michael Angelo

and David in the interview with Tulski. But Arthur Schopenhauer is a 19th century German philosopher and he talked about the different stages that truth goes through. And tell me if this sounds, like analytics in hockey to you, Zach. Okay. Okay. This is the stages of truth.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. And third, it is accepted as self-evident. How many people now who used to ridicule all of them say, oh, we've always used analytics. I've always been a thinker like this. And those same people, we're tearing these guys down now

who are getting their names scratched on the Stanley Cup. Right. These are some of the names that I thought of when the Carolina Hurricanes won the Stanley Cup. Yeah, I think one of the most interesting pieces of the whole thing in hearing Eric talk about it a little bit more in depth as well is the process of collaboration and the acceptance and even more so than acceptance, the seeking of people who think differently than you.

Just because Eric Tolski and Tyler Delo and Ellen Etchingham and these people that we might consider analytics people are in that room, doesn't mean they all see the game the same. Doesn't mean they all think the game the same. No. And then it goes even as far as Rod Brindamore. Like on the surface, do you look at Rod Brindamore and say, that's the guy to be the face of the team that's analytics, you know, or analytically based?

It doesn't. And yet when you hear him talk about these things when it's finding players and putting together the right team and stuff, it's input from everybody to get to a point where you get to that final result. And it's just very interesting to hear them or hear Eric talk about how they, in that room, you know, use that information, seek information and get opinions from people to then come through a final result. Because a lot of times, you know, the online discourse that you see even still take place to this day, we talk about all the time, you know, analytics versus

I test and you'll run into it where there's people posting player cards or game post game recaps. And it's like, this is the way the game was. And then there's the people who say, what the hell do you, did you even watch the game? And it's like, well, guys, like maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle here. Maybe what you saw. So here's the way that I look at, here's the way that I look at that. A, if you just follow your eyes,

your eyes can lie to you. Your eyes lie to you all the time. Not to say that there's not some truth cleaned in it, but capital T truth is sort of really hard to approach. And when you look at ways of measuring the game, i.e. analytics. And that's why I asked Eric the stuff about going back to like 2014, Like, how often do you go back and look at what you wrote then

or what you believe then and went like, ooh, yeah, we've moved on from there. Like, the smartest people are always the ones that treat capital teeth, not even capital, that treat truth as a temporary staging post. Like, this is what I believe the truth to be now, keeping the option open to change my mind later. Those are the ones that ultimately win. They don't look at, they don't look at, they don't look at like this idea. of truth is like a final

a final destination. It's just a temporary staging post. And what we believe now in 2026, I assure you, we're still doing the show in 2030, Zach. We'll look back on how the game was measured right now and go like, yeah, no what, we don't look at it that way anymore. And that's true of

that's why we can still read books now about and I know I do, World War I, and still relearn and think about it in different ways because we can never get at the actual capital T truth because anything that we do think is capital T truth is just a temporary staging post and it's always evolving and it's always changing and the best way to approach getting there is to have different voices with different experiences around the table that is one of the lessons of the Carolina I can't believe we use it the Carolina hurricane that is one of the

lessons in Carolina hurricanes. Like, that's it. It's like, that's part of it. That's a huge part of it. That's why I think that there are a lot of people and a lot of them, like, we'll, we'll watch this show and I get, you know, DMs and text from people. I think there's a lot of people that don't feel like they can be part of this. Like they feel like outsiders.

Like there's like this, this hockey class of people that all played which you play, oh, I played in Swifty. Oh, I played at BC. I played in Europe. Like, there's that group. And that's obviously a really important group. or the shoulders upon which other players sit on as this sport continues to evolve,

but they're not the only ones. Yeah. Like you just heard the GM of the Stanley Cup champions talk about that. Not just the Stanley Cup champions, but a team that went on a 16 and 3 run. To like with the NHL. Jesus.

Every time you hear you say the record that they had is just ridiculous. Two of the losses came in the Stanley Cup final two. 16 and 3. Ridiculous. Hey, by the way, Like, as we've just talked about all this, like, smart stuff and you've gone very deep into how hockey goes. Yeah, you got a dick joke for me now?

What are you got? No, I was going to ask you a stupid question. But, you know, there are no stupid questions. Any stupid people. Well, here you go. After U.S. won, one gold at the Olympics. I'm sure, like, the most watched movie in America, rewatched movie in America was Miracle on Ice. How many people on Sunday night were like, I got to put on Moneyball right now?

I got to be watching some money ball. The money ball numbers would have been through the roof at that point. It's a really, really, it's like whenever an artist dies, it's like, oh, great career move. I remember talking to someone who works in the music industry out. He's like, hey, do you hear that Roy Orbison just died? And he's like, oh, great career move. Because the back catalog just starts moving. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Articulous. I was just thinking about it too because we were looking for the tweets and stuff. So last night after I finished my show, I was up looking for old Tulski tweets. And the amount of times you could cross-reference his name and Moneyball in the tweets is hilarious. I just searched Eric Tulski and I'm like, what can I find? And it just kept popping up like Eric Tolski, blah, blah, blah, money ball. Money ball, Eric Tolski. I'm like, all right.

Let's keep it. Let's keep going. Just go type in, like, hockey is a fluid sport, not a stationary sport. Only stationary sports can you measure with analytics. Hockey's too fluid to be measured. I'm like, economies are measured like using analytical thinking. It's like the most fluid thing in the world that's changing every minute. God, man, when you go back to look at the resistance to all of this, it really is spectacular.

Like the numskull arguments that were put forward. It just is so spectacular. And hopefully that's end scene on that conversation. Right? Oh, yeah. Look at that. They'll never win a Stanley Cup. They'll never win us.

They can get to the conference final and surf on scale and then that's it. Tall foreheads aren't getting there. Uh-huh. Okay. All right. Okay, sure. So thankfully. Tall forehead.

This is end. This is end, uh, end scene on all that. Never heard that one before. It's all four heads. Yeah. Hang around long enough kid. you'll get all my bad lines. Okay, it's the NHL season,

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1-866-5-3-1-2,600, to speak to an advisor free of charge. Do you have a line on Michael Pazetta scoring the Calder Cup winning goal? Is that what you're going to present to us here? I'm saving the Marley stuff till tomorrow. I really have to stretch this out right now, Jeff.

So don't give away all the bits and stuff before I can get to them, please. Forget that I said Michael Pazeta, Easton, and Dan, for all these guys. Bro, grew, all these guys. Okay, I'll leave it alone now. Um, it is, uh, it is no longer the NHL season, but one thing that is taking place right now is, uh, getting ready for the PWHL draft. And so in the spirit of the PWHL draft, Mr. Merrick, I was taking a look over at Fandwell and look at, getting way too excited for the odds for next season. And one of the themes that I seem to be seeing is, Killing Harble is liking, well, they're liking some repeat champions because the Montreal Victoire are still favored for next season. And so my question to you on the

Aaron Ambrose is in Vegas now. Ambrose is in Vegas. H. Hayley Scamura went to Vegas. Go Vegas. Where's Vegas in all of this one? So the question I had for you is, is there a team that we should be looking out for who isn't at the top of the list? And for those not looking right now listening on podcasts, you see the Victoire right now plus 550.

We see the Minnesota Frost at plus 600 and then the Boston Fleet at plus 750. So outside of those three? I'm the wrong one to ask because I thought Vancouver was going to run the table last year. When I looked at what they did in the expansion draft, I'm like, holy smokes, is Vancouver going to even lose a game? Happy the Montreal of Victoire won, mainly because that celebration was just fantastic in Montreal. I wish that every PWHL championship brought with it that type of celebration in that home market. Understanding, of course, at the same time that Montreal really is special.

I'm probably, again, like I haven't seen, and we, none of us have seen, like, final rosters, what they're going to look like, injuries wild card. I'm just hoping. By the way, Kimberly Weiss, who was the first female on the bench in the North American Hockey League a number of years ago and has worked with the Colorado Eagles and Avalanche this past season, was named the head coach of the Vegas Golden Knights. I think we're going to get her on the program the next couple of days, too.

I was texting with her the other day, so trying to get her on the program. So that's good news there. And we want friend of the show, former teammate of Sean Walker with the Yerksimco Express. And Krista, you see that picture that I threw out there the other day of the OHS? I did. Look how small Walker is.

And Ambrose is just a giant in the show. With the sea. With the sea at the OHFs for YorksomeCo Express. She had the growth spurt first. But just seeing like Sean Walker, who's like, where's the rest of you, kid? in that picture is really fantastic. So I'll be cheering for Vegas between her.

And I love Haley Skamora. I'm a huge fan of hers. And I want Kimberly Weiss to do really well. So I don't know who's going to win up, but I'm going to be cheering for Vegas this year in the PWH. Yep. And our friend Aaron Ambrose out there enjoying the warm weather that Vegas has to offer. Dude, like on the body, good recovery.

If there's one person whose body needs to feel good when she wakes up, it's like the shot blocking machine that is Aaron Ambrose. Like, oh, my knee, my hip, my wrist, my shoulder, all of it. Like she goes from Montreal where it's chilly in the winter folks. And you wake up and your body really feels it to waking up in Vegas every day. The sun, the warmth of your body. Like, if anyone deserves it, it's Ambrose. For how many pucks she's eaten in their life.

Hey, just a note here as we were talking about Vegas, loosely tying this one together. Sinban Vegas did tweet out Kelly McCriman further to the Bruce Cassidy permission. A point that we brought up earlier where he's being granted to speak to a team. He also adds, moving forward, he says they'll deal with it on a case-by-case basis. Yeah, I think Gary had that in his tweet, too. Translation? No Edmonton. That's what I was going to say to you.

That's what that line means. If you're not Edmonton and you want to speak to them, let us know. Otherwise, don't call me. It's like get everyone in all the teams in line. Everybody who wants to speak to Bruce Cassidy, please step forward. Edmonton, be cool. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Mr. McCrimmon, Edmonton online too. Yeah, tell him the hold. Yeah, tell them. I'm taking another question. Phone doesn't work. Connections, Pat. New phone. Who is?

Stan who? Yeah, okay. I think we're breaking up. Let me call you right back. On the 30 second of Nevuary is when I'll call you back. It's an expected phone call back for me on the 32nd of February. All right, listen. Men's Health Week and Father's Day.

Take one simple step for your health because caring for yourself today means more time. more memories, more great milestones. Healthy families help build healthier families. More great time with the ones that matter the most. You can learn more at Movember.com. Zach, a final thought from you before I wrap up for the day. I'm excited for what the NHL offseason has to offer because we are, what do you want to call it,

three days in here to this one. I guess everyone kind of took Monday as like the last, last day because it's still all the videos coming out of Carolina partying and stuff. It's like, okay, it's their day to close this thing out. And then it was Tuesday we've got hirings and people being let go and trades that are happening here right now. So you guys have teased as the analysts. I put you in there. I've listened to Pierre talk about it.

You know, Berkey talking about it here. The summer of trades that we're looking forward to. And, you know, no offense, but we always get this summer of trade-esque, you know, description of what. we're going to see and it doesn't always come to fruition, this one I think is going to happen because it seems like everyone has way too much money and is way too horny here to be doing things. So it feels like there's going to be a lot of movement coming up and I'm excited. Barely enough, loose skin to blank on all these managers just waiting to make trades, trades, trades.

Well, we'll see what happens. First of all, thanks to Eric Tulski for stopping by the program today. Thanks to the great Mike Sundheim, Media Relations Director for the Carolina. hurricanes for making him available at a very busy time. Thanks to Brian Burke for stopping by, as always, here for Civilian Wednesdays on the program. We kept you late. Apologies, you can always hit pause. You know that.

Thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks so much for everyone listening on your favorite podcast platform or watching on our daily face off YouTube. Thank you. We're back tomorrow. I believe Wish is back tomorrow. So more fun and games with Greg Wischinsky from ESPN and ESPN.com. Enjoy the rest of your day.

American Hockey League tomorrow. We got that still. Still a little bit of hockey goal and squeeze every drop out of the towel. We'll talk to you tomorrow on the sheet here on a daily faceoff YouTube channel and wherever you get your podcasts. Have a great day.