The Sheet with Jeff Marek - McKenna's Motivation ft. Anton Thun & Mike McMahon

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

On this episode of The Sheet, host Jeff Marek is joined by Anton Thun, the Co-Managing Director of Quartexx Management to discuss the new CBA, the biggest benefit for the players, limiting contract lengths, eliminating deferred salaries, and reducing signing bonuses moving forward. They'll take a deeper look into if these changes help/hurt big market teams. Later, Mike McMahon joins the show to discuss Gavin McKenna's decision to join Penn State, the massive win for the NCAA, and how it could impact the future of the CHL. #NHL #CBA #HockeyBusiness #NHLContracts #PlayerManagement #QuartexxManagement #JeffMarek #AntonThun #SigningBonuses #DeferredSalaries #BigMarketTeams #CHL #NCAA #GavinMcKenna #CollegeHockey #PennStateHockey #HockeyProspects #MikeMcMahon #TheSheetPodcast #HockeyNews #NHLPA #HockeyTalk #HockeyFuture #JuniorHockey #NHLUpdates #HockeyAnalysis Shout out to our sponsors! 👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/ Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us! If you liked this, check out: 🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow 🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401 🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom 🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army 🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation 🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Connect with us on ⬇️ Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff 💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com 🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff 💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoff Daily Faceoff Merch: https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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CarGurus.ca Oh boy, where do we begin now? Where do we begin today? How about this? Welcome to the program. Glad to have you aboard today. A couple of main topics. One Gavin McKenna, formally of the Medicine Attigers. We're going to get to that. And also the new CBA, the new document,

which hasn't been completely finished, but we have the sort of major strokes of what this thing is going to contain, as we understand it, and as we all know, these things take a while to finally get put to bed. So the entire document isn't written yet, but we do have the summary of it and what it looks like. And we'll go over that with you

coming up in a couple of moments. Also, wanna point out one thing real quick here. Trade last night, which was an interesting one, speaking of college hockey, Isaac Howard, who would like to go by the name Ike, I understand it, as someone mentioned to me earlier today. Isaac Howard goes from the Tampa Bay Lightning who owned his rights To the Edmonton Oilers in exchange for Senator Sam O'Reilly

As I look at this one initially really quick because I want to get the Anton fun coming up here in a couple of moments As I look at this one quickly one This one was kind of played expertly in a lot of ways by Isaac Howard He could pick his shot. He could pick a shot, he could pick where he went, he had one more year left in college and then he was going to become a free agent and essentially go wherever he wanted, wherever somebody wanted him. So in a lot of ways he controlled where he wanted to go and clearly he wanted to go to the Edmonton Oilers. I think a lot of people

wonder why the price was so high. You know, this is your classic negotiation. I'm sure the Oilers came in with something lower and then ended up because they wanted the player having to surrender their former first round pick, Sam O'Reilly. The way this thing looks to me right away, Isaac Howard is gonna step into the Edmonton Oilers lineup and he is going to provide, I don't know how much,

but he's going to provide offense. That is his calling card. This is someone that gets his shot off quickly, has a hard accurate shot. This is someone that's not shy about going to the front of the net, mainly for tips, but if you're expecting a Selkie Trophy candidate, you are not going to get it, at least now, with Isaac Howard, but he is a shot in the arm of offense. Sam O'Reilly who I've watched play plenty with the London Knights at the very

least for the Tampa Bay Lightning they're going to get an excellent third line responsible two-way center like that is like the the very very bottom of what Sam O'Reilly is gonna turn into at the NHL level. Maybe makes it up to the second line and plays there, but at very worst. And this is great. They're getting a really good future third line center in Tampa. Just don't expect them to be there next season. In the meantime, we have a big show for you today and it's a really newsy show and I want to remind you as always, our daily outline is presented by our friends

and presenters at FanDuel. Make every moment more with North America's number one sports book, FanDuel. And coming up on the program today, we're moments away from hearing from Anton Thun, former NHL agent who as we know, still pays very close attention to things like CBAs. And we'll get to Anton here in a couple of moments.

Mike McMahon and the College Hockey Insider Newsletter, which is the finest in class. We'll talk about the Gavin McKenna decision to go to Penn State. We'll talk about CBA ratification. We'll talk about Gavin McKenna, and we'll talk more about the Lightning Oilers trade. In the meantime, let's get right to our first guest,

because we have a lot to get into and sort of digest and process here. What we're seeing with this new document, the NHL's CBA, he is long time agent, now retired, although still very much paying attention. Please welcome back to the program the one and only Anton Thon. Anton, first of all, thanks for joining me.

I know you're in retirement, but you're still very much paying attention. And on a Wednesday afternoon at three o'clock Eastern, you can be doing much more interesting things than talking to me about the CBA, but here we are, Anton. So thanks so much for joining me today. Always a pleasure, Jeff. Where do you want to begin on this one?

Because I kind of look at the document and I try to find, rightly or wrongly, okay, who won this element? Who won that element? What did this side get? What did they have to trade off in exchange for getting that? And as I look at what's going to be in this CBA when the final document is all finally put together, this one looks really weighed heavily in the favor of the NHL. Would I be in the minority and looking at this document this way,

like this one seems kind of like a home run for the National Hockey League. How do you see it? Well, listen, I think every CBA negotiations an opportunity to modify an economic system, hopefully for the better for both sides. I don't want to pretend to know that we, at this point in time time have all the full details

of what the new CBA is going to entail. But having had many people in the media release information and assuming that the information that they've released is accurate and that the rest of the CBA doesn't change and remains in place in the status quo. Yeah, I really believe that the owners probably got a B plus deal here and the players maybe got a C deal. You know, one of the things that I always wonder about too, and maybe this just goes back to,

and I don't wanna rehash it because you and I have argued about this for so long. I don't wanna go back to the 2004, 2005 CBA, but I always wondered why the players ratified that and agreed to that deal in July when there was no pressure point. Just like I look at this one, it's July, there's no pressure point.

There were a year away, and all of a sudden this is put to a vote by the Players Association, and I ask myself, why? Like I can understand from the owner's point of view. Expansion is on the horizon. to a vote by the Players Association and I ask myself, why? Like I can understand from the owner's point of view. Expansion is on the horizon. There's potentially for two expansion teams,

$4 billion on the table. They wanna get this thing done as soon as possible. So they can go to market and say, look, we've got Labor Peace for four years. Well, five years because we have one more year on this CBA. But from the players point of view, I just wonder about the timing and why they would want to get this thing done so quickly. Do you have any thought or answer on that one?

I would concur with you. I, you know, having reviewed the changes to the CBA, I don't see any significant benefit that the players receive. There are small benefits, there's no doubt. significant benefit that the players receive. There are small benefits. There's no doubt. I think even those small benefits, not having been in the negotiation room, should have been easy wins in the negotiation room from the NHL based on the status of the economy in the hockey world today. And what they gave up seemed to me to be issues that there was no reason to give them up in all honesty. But we do have an agreement now and it does have modifications and there are small financial benefits to the players. I think they could have been much, much more substantial. And that's not to say there should have been a holdout in any way, shape or form.

substantial. And that's not to say there should have been a holdout in any way, shape or form. But I think there could have been much more significant change to the collective bargaining agreement that not only would help the players, but help the economic system as a whole, because I see some of the things that are happening here. And I, you know, based on this CBA summary in conjunction with the current CBA, I think there's gonna be issues if there isn't a lot of revenue sharing going forward with some of the smaller market teams at the tail end of the CBA, big issues. In what sense?

What do you see on the horizon? Well, I think you've got an increasing cap that's just going to continue to increase. It's already devalued at this point by probably 10% in the catch-up mode from the COVID years. And that's going to continue to increase. And you've got marketplaces that, unless they get significant revenue sharing or a different CBA structure that exists today, they're not going to be able to generate revenues in Winnipeg or perhaps Columbus or Buffalo to maintain getting to the floor,

let alone to the midpoint or to the ceiling. Well, I'll tell you, you know, one of the things that I've wondered about here as we're, and I wanna get back to the CBA here in a second, but just as an aside, you know, the Florida Panthers just went to the Stanley Cup final for the third time and they've won the Stanley Cup twice. I still believe they are going to qualify.

I'm almost a hundred percent that they're still going to qualify for revenue sharing. If going to the Stanley Cup final three times and winning the Stanley Cup twice doesn't take you out of the revenue sharing pool, that to me is a concern further to what you're talking about. 100%. Listen, if the Florida Panthers and credit to Bill Zito, the organization as a whole, the players, they're fantastic, wonderful to watch, they're entertaining, and they win. What more could you ask for? Well, what you could ask for in terms of the economics of the NHL is a season ticket price at a much higher end

than what they sell tickets for in Florida right now, because I'm guessing that in terms of their revenue generation in the regular season, they would probably be bottom quartile. Let me get to the document here as much as we know about it and have seen it so far. Positives and negatives. Let's put on a smile first. From the player's point of view, what are the positives?

Like, overwhelming again, I'll reinforce this is an overwhelming win for the NHL from my point of view. But from a player's point of view, what are the positives as we've seen from this new CBA? Well, to me, the positives are some financial positives. Okay, I don't view getting to wear what you want to wear into the arena or having an e-bug system or anything like that as being a positive. Those are great, means nothing, okay?

So the wins essentially are a few things. One, there were some minor accounting changes to clean up some HRR calculations that will add to HRR. We don't know what that number is, but apparently they've cleaned up the accounting problems and now that will bump up HRR to some extent. If the number was really big, I'm sure we'd know about it. Okay. So I can't imagine it's huge. It's, it's cleanup. bump up HRR to some extent. If the number was really big, I'm sure we'd know about it, okay? So I can't imagine it's huge, it's cleanup.

The playoff fund is now being entirely fronted by the league rather than shared by the league and the players out of the player share. So that's a benefit, but it's not, again, an earth shattering benefit. And the last financial benefit is that workers' compensation taxes and employer payroll taxes,

which had previously been part of the player share, are now being paid for by the owners. In all honesty, that should have happened in 2005 in most collective bargaining agreements. A lot of the provisions that the players currently pay for right now, which includes dental, health, life insurance, their pension plans, and all that kind of additional benefits that ownership usually contributes to in not only the hockey world or sports

world, but in the real world. The NHL is now picking up some of those costs. So the players share in terms of the HRR is now being bumped up by, I'm guessing about two to 3% of that. It's not two to 3% above 50% because the reality of it is player salaries have not been 50%. Okay, player salaries have been about 43%. And then all these other benefits have actually been paid for by the players, not by the owners. Right. So essentially, can we look at that then

and say that is more of a give back than a win? Yeah, it's getting some financial benefit, 100%. Those are the wins. See, and that's why I say, well, trust me, we're gonna get there and we got a lot of time to do it too. I know you're against the clock too for your day, but there'll be plenty of wins for the NHL with this document, but part of this too,

is you said something interesting there that I think a lot of people may not have a sort of handle on. As much as this is positioned as, this is a 50-50 split and that's where Donald Fear got it down to from the Players Association from a 57 after the 2005 lockouts. It really isn't a 50-50 split and still isn't. Can you sort of color that in for our viewers slash listeners? Sure. So essentially what ends up happening when the NHL finalizes HRR using all its accounting practices and so on and so forth.

And the NHL and the NHLPA sign off on it. There's a hundred dollars, okay? 50 goes to the owners right off the bat. Cover off their expenses, their profit margins, all the other costs of running a business. And 50% notionally is allocated to the players. Okay. But historically that 50% didn't just include players' salaries. It included all these payroll taxes, workers' comp payments, the players' pensions, the players' health, dental, life insurance premiums, which essentially in totality, and the other thing was they

also contributed to the playoff share. So the playoff money is that the teams pay out at the end of the year. And that's, that's Pip, my dog, if you can hear the background wants to weigh in on the CBA I understand it's a salaries of approximately 43% and those 43% of salaries created the cap. Okay. So now there's a, so that's been clawed back by maybe two or three percent, I'm guessing based on what I've read. So that 43% of income now ends up being about 45, maybe 46, I'm guessing. Gotcha. Okay, to some of the wins for the NHL in this one, and these are sizable. One of the things that I really had a hard, I shouldn't say I have a hard time with it, because I don't really have skin in this game,

but I kind of looked at sideways as if, I look at it and say, this is something the PA might have wanted to fight a little bit longer about, is the entry level system and how much control teams have over players once they draft them, i.e. as much as four years to sign a player up until if the player is drafted at 18 that player's rights are held and you have until the player is 22 years old to sign that player. Um, entry level system or, or, or, or longer if they're, if they're still a college, absolutely. It could be five. Um, this one is an overwhelming win for the NHL

full stop. Always the, the, the entry level system is a horrible system. It's very unique in sports and hockey where players' rights can be distributed among professional sports teams without those professional sports teams paying those players a penny. And even when they get to pay them a penny, the amount of money that they pay to secure their rights from anywhere from seven to nine years is a paltry sum, less than $300,000 in signing bonus money. When you compare that to the acquisition rights in the NFL, you know, so Macklin Celebrini got a $292,500 signing bonus paid out over three years. Number one pick in the NHL. Cam Ward, he received 32 million upfront. Cooper Flag, 28 million.

Major League, number one pick, generally around $9 million to give up their rights. It's ridiculous. And it's the worst. It's the worst system for entering into professional sports and any professional sports league and they've made no changes to it at all. In fact, what they've done is they've made it worse. They've actually extended in a lot of cases a two year rights that the NHL teams had to a four year right. And they don't even have to offer them a contract during that period of time. It's crazy. And then when they sign them, the signing bonus

is paltry. In fact, you mentioned Gavin McKenna before. Penn State for a one-year commitment from Gavin McKenna is going to pay more to Gavin McKenna in essentially what is a signing bonus plus scholarship, then an NHL team is going to pay the NHL number one pick. He's going to get more as a signing bonus from Penn State than he gets from his NHL team when he signs his contract next year. That's crazy and I've always felt that salaries are, salaries are twofold in a lot of ways. One, it's the actual compensation for the player, and that's the reason why the player plays, obviously. But two, I've always sort of looked at salaries

like marketing. Like it's an indication of, like that's that moment where you puff out your chest like, yeah, we've got a $30 million player. Or yeah, we've got a $100 million player. It's a sort of, it's an indication moment where you puff out your chest like, yeah, we've got a $30 million player. Or yeah, we've got a $100 million player. It's a sort of, it's an indication of where you are on the sports ladder. And the other thing that I always try to keep in mind too

is something that someone mentioned to me, and this goes back to the 04, 05 lockout. This person said, you know, never lose fact of one thing. And that is when it comes to sports, the athletes are both the employee and the product at the same time. And this idea of 50-50 sounds right,

but when it really comes down to it, the players are the ones that are making the product and they're the employees at the same time. How do you look at salaries? And do you look at salaries and say, one, it's compensation, obviously, but two, can you also look at it and say, that's also great marketing for your sport

if the numbers are big? Well, listen, obviously salaries are always compensation and that's how players get paid. But I think what you want to do with your system, if at all possible, is create an environment where you're attracting the best athletes in the world to that system. Okay. And, and by having this, and just going back to the salaries, there's only so much money that hockey generates. And that's going to be a limit on salaries in comparison to other sports. And hopefully hockey has

or is in the process of developing better revenue generation systems that can now get to Major League Baseball and the NBA and Premier League Soccer and the NFL. They haven't done it so far. So there's a limit. That said, there's a big difference, I think, in terms of the sports world. And, and if I'm a young athlete growing up, especially in the United States, because I think the United States is future marketplace, right? Where the options are infinitesimal. I can be a tennis player, a golfer and make X number of dollars. Okay.

And you now look at the marketplace as a parent for that matter in terms of infinitesimal. I can be a tennis player or golfer and make X number of dollars. Okay. And you now look at the marketplace as a parent for that matter in terms of what sports your son going to play. And you realize that if he's the number one draft in the NFL pick, number one pick in the NFL draft, he's going to get lots of money. Same thing NBA, lots of money. Same thing, baseball, lots of money. Same thing, Major League Baseball, lots of money. And then he's gonna go to hockey and he's gonna get $300,000. And you look at it and go,

I'm investing a lot of time and money in my kids. And if I think he's a special athlete, what sport do I want him to play? I think that's a factor. And I see that because as you know, being in minor hockey ranks, minor sports, baseball diamonds as well, you know how parents think it's gone from 50 years ago, putting your kid into sports for the joy of sports to investing a lot of

time and a huge amount of family resources to develop players, to play AAA hockey and to get the power skating and the shooting instruction and to buy the $300 sticks. And it's not like before, they're $400 sticks. Sorry. So they're looking for a return on their investment. And a return on their investment. And that return on their investment is either a scholarship or more hopefully the NHL. And the crazy thing is, you can envision, Jeff, not a year from now, but I would say four or five years

from now, once the NCAA hockey institutions have got their act together, that there might be hockey players who are playing at Penn State, like Gavin McKenna, or at Michigan, or Michigan State, or Harvard, maybe not Harvard because it's an Ivy League school, but the Ohio State, let's include Ohio State, big school, big money, that are actually staying in school because they can make more money playing for the Ohio State Buckeyes hockey team than they can signing a two-way entry-level contract with the $300,000 signing bonus with the Anaheim Ducks. Does that make any sense? No? no, of course. No, it absolutely doesn't. I do want to add one point. So part of what the NHL and the NHL

PA should be doing in recognizing those same things is creating an economic system that incentivizes kids playing hockey and incentivizes the best players in the world to leave college and come to the NHL and play. Not incentivizes them to choose other sports and stay in college. Did you know socks are one of the most requested clothing items by organizations addressing homelessness. Bombas also makes incredibly comfy underwear and t-shirts, which by no coincidence are

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CarGurus will connect you with trusted dealerships when you're ready, ensuring a transparent and hassle-free buying process. Buy your next card today with CarGurus at CarGurus.ca. Go to CarGurus.ca to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot C-A. CarGurus dot c-a Okay, you know what though as a quick point sidebar to all of that none of that is shocking to me

What we've seen specifically in hockey is the sport that I follow the closest when it comes to CBA negotiations The one area that gets the one class of athlete that gets thrown under the bus are the ones that are entering, are the rookies. Every single CBA, they're the ones that end up getting the short end of the stick through all of it. This has been this has been every CBA. It's it's worse now, but none of it should be a surprise. Well, it's not a surprise, Jeff, and you're 100% right in your assessment. That's what it is. And if it was only the entry level players

that lost on this deal, you'd say, hey, the entry level players got screwed again. So let's get to some of those. Let's get to some of the couple of other elements here. I got about, I think about 15 minutes left with you. So I wanna buzz through a few things 84 game season now I've always said if I could change one thing in the NHL It'd be this get your game out of June

Get your game out of June It's too many games the playoffs are too long It causes a rush at the end between the draft and then free agency, et cetera. Get your games out of June and sort everything, all the business affairs you need afterwards. But it looks like the NHL is going the other way. And all of this is coupled with a robust international calendar,

which includes the Olympics, World Cup of Hockey, et cetera. Your thoughts on adding games, adding participation in the Olympics, which by the way, even though it's always framed as advantage player, and it's something that they want, I think that that's a really deft move by the NHL to position it that way,

because this is the NHL putting their brand and their athletes next to the number one international sports brand out there, and that is the five rings. And I think that's a benefit to the NHL that the NHL positions as only a benefit to the players because they want it. Anyway, your thoughts on the expanded schedule. Well, firstly, I would agree with your assessment. The participation in the Olympics, especially in Milan and in France in 2030, is essential for the NHL to grow the sport.

Playing 84 games in no way, shape or form other than being a very, very small money grab will provide any value to the league. I think what's going to end up happening in the next five years, you've got two Olympics, one World Cup of hockey, the elite players are going to be playing 84 intense games, potentially 28 intense playoff games. And now when they previously would have spent a joyful weekend playing shinny hockey at NHL Fest. They are going into heavy duty competition in three out of five years where they're going to play an additional five, probably five, six games at a minimum in the Olympics or the World Cup of hockey and it will grind down these players.

By the end of this CBA, the best players in the world are going to be exhausted. If they're not exhausted, it will be due to load management, which means they're not playing regular season games. They should be playing. Yes. And should get pissed off when that happens. I'm with you on that one. And I'm surprised it hasn't come to the NHL yet, just because of how physically taxing this sport is and how many games there are and what is

expected of these athletes when the regular season is over and they need to take the games up another notch. Honestly Anton, I know we see it towards the end of every schedule where a couple of guys will get a couple of games off leading into the playoffs and fans will grouse about it but I think it's gonna become more significant. I'm with you. I think 84 games, sure. But if I'm a team or if I'm a player, I'm like, look, I'm tapped out here. I need some rest and fans pay a premium for these tickets right now, especially in Canada. And there's going to be pushback. Absolutely. There's going to be major pushback.

And the reality of it is there's going to be markets and I mentioned markets before that aren't going to want to buy that extra ticket because right now they're not getting a good product perhaps in a place like Buffalo and even where they are getting a good product in Winnipeg for example, the economy in that city can't afford more games. That's the reality. A couple of other interesting points here. First of all, I don't know that I've ever heard any team, any players, any fans complain about double salary retention. Yet here it is in the CBA, you can still retain double on a deal, but it has to be 75 days. Have you ever heard anybody grouse about retention on trade?

I scratched my head at where this one comes from. Well, it comes from general managers that potentially see somewhat shady dealings where money is being retained in circumstances that the NHL itself doesn't want money retained. Listen, the reality of this CBA and each newer version of the CBA, is that the NHL is dumbing down the system. There is so little creativity in what players can do in terms of their contracts. They're getting contracts reduced from long-term contracts that were multiple years to eight years, now to seven years.

The variation from year to year is now limited. The percentage of signing bonus is even more limited and it takes any creativity, including tax planning creativity completely out of the system, which is not good. And, you know, it really is eliminating possibilities for general managers and clubs that might not be in Florida or in a tax free state, not tax free, but a tax reduced state to get creative and create dynamics where, for example, Carolina, you know, use that ability to defer compensation beyond the term of the contract. Like, who did that really hurt? Nobody. Okay. You know, and so you've got all of these modifications to the CBA, which is dumbing it

down more so. And when you and I were talking previously, you know, essentially, we're going to end up having chat GBT negotiate contracts going forward because it's such a limited amount of things you can negotiate it's crazy it's going to put agents out of business anton well this one's out of business already so i'm not let me uh let me get your thought and they there's there's a couple of things in here that um that raise a couple of you already mentioned the the no dress code for players, which I kind of look at and kind of giggle like, oh, okay, so you're allowed to wear a turtleneck in January. Okay, I'll shrug it.

William Nylander can wear an open collar shirt. Going to the game. I want to know what the league gave up to the players to get that. That's... What was it trade off to get that one? But the other one I kind of laugh at too, although there are some coaches

and I can think of John Tortorello as being one of them, no fitness testing. Now I look at this and I say to myself, do we even need fitness testing now? Like these guys show up, they're torn up like bad report cards, you can light matches off all these guys, they spend their summers working out.

They show up in top shape. I've always kind of looked at fitness testing and kind of sideways and said like, fitness testing is from like, it's not even an old school idea. It's from the school they burned down to build the old school. Who needs fitness testing in training camps anymore?

You know what, I don't know who does it and we both know that based on the training that young players are doing and that continues on through their junior careers into college, into the NHL, there's so much money involved here. If you're not in good shape, who cares? You're not making the team anyway. Right. And, you know, the the the that provision on its own is going to be interesting when you have a guy who just signed a seven year, not an eight year deal with his hometown team for $14 million and drinks beer all summer. Okay. And then the crap is going to hit the fan about how fitness testing got taken out of the CBA. Perhaps. I don't know, put it this way, I don't know, and maybe I can be proven wrong here, but to rise to the level in hockey where you can earn a seven year contract

at $14 million per, generally that says to me, you have a certain amount of discipline in your life that you're not just gonna let go once you ring that bell. You know what I mean? And Jeff, you're right. As you know, and you've seen over the years, there's always that exception to the rule. There is who's always trying to game the system and, you know, is the best player in the National Hockey League in his contract year, but the other three years before that is, uh,

um, doing something to the dog. As they say, smooch the pooch as we would like to say about that. We can, uh, we can be a little more delicate about it. Um, for exhibition games, I look at exhibition games sideways now and say to myself, really, why do we need any exhibition games? Teams are made. Give me a date. August something. Anton, how many spots are really available?

Listen, I think at the end of the day, the concept of exhibition games goes back to the 40s, 50s, 60s, maybe the 20s, not the 2020s, the 1920s, where players were going to camp after slugging Molson beer cases on the back of trucks and not getting into hockey shape because they had to have a second job to make the bills. That's not the case anymore. Players show up and can get into a game on day one. That said, you want to get some rhythm going, whether that be two games, three games, four games,

definitely you don't need six or eight. The players are in shape. And there's a false notion that you have to determine who's making the team in training camp. And we all know that as soon as those one way contracts are done, there might be a chance in a city like Toronto that Easton Cowan makes the team versus a fourth line guy who was probably destined to play with the Marlies anyway.

Those are rare. And oftentimes those decisions get undone two games into the season anyway. So there's always provisions that can be included in the CBA to deal with those circumstances and those rare occasions where it matters. Okay, last one for you. I was hoping that in this CBA,

there would be something that addresses compensating players who waive their no trade slash no move clauses. Right now, you ask a player to waive a no move clause, the proposition is this, from the manager. Give me something in exchange for nothing. Do me a favor, essentially. I want to trade you to this team to bring in this asset who I think is better than you.

And in exchange, I'm going to give you nothing other than the inconvenience of uprooting yourself, your family, and going to another team. That doesn't sound like any decent business arrangement to me. I've always been in favor of creating some type of pool or some type of number where if a player agrees to waive their no trade, because let's not forget to, these contracts are made and agreed to in good faith by both sides, I would like to see a system whereby if a player agrees to waive their no move or no trade, they can get compensated. Million dollars, half a million dollars, whatever it is, it can be collectively negotiated and collectively bargained. It looks like in this document, we're not going to get that.

Is there anything that you would have liked to have seen in this next CBA here for the players and the owners? Sure. Well, listen, I think in addition to your point, which I think is well founded, and there's always, as I said, this agreement has been dumbed down. So I think they need to create opportunities for Carvos to create some creativity like that. I think they, again, they hopefully will have created another larger opportunity for revenue sharing. I think the other thing, they hopefully will have created another larger opportunity for revenue

sharing. I think the other thing that is important to players, or at least should be important to players, is stability. And I don't see any reason why the players should be able to be traded for nine months of the year short of the trade deadline. That makes no sense to me. I think there should be trading periods. You can get traded during the summer

when your family can move from one city to another. And perhaps a five day, seven day, three day window in the first half of the season that's dedicated to this, where you can actually trade players that's been collectively bargained. And another three to five day period just before the trade deadline. And it would make players lives and their wives and their family lives much,

much simpler, uh, because they knew or know that they're not going anywhere other than during those periods. And that sounds very European by the way, very European soccer. Well, it's, it's, well, it's. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I think it's an interesting thing. I think it creates, actually, it creates events in the NHL.

Since you're saying take one deadline and make it two. Sure. Well, it creates events, but what it also does is it creates stability and it creates harmony in your family where your wife isn't wondering whether you're on the road trip and if you're ever coming back home for the next month and a half or you're living in a hotel in Colorado if you were playing for the Leafs because you got traded. We all hear stories at the end of the season about players that were traded. I think I was listening to the radio, you know, I think was Charlie Coyle, okay. His niece was born literally hours after he got

traded from wherever it was, Boston to Colorado, maybe, wherever he went and he never saw his niece for two months after that because he never got back to Boston. And he rarely saw his wife for two months because he never got back to Boston. Why should that happen? It's for a bigger conversation, absolutely. But I do like your idea of creating a couple of different trade windows throughout the season. I find that a really intriguing one. Well, you wanna, I think we're getting to the point

where we're dumbing down this collective bargaining agreement so badly that we're not creating excitement, right, when we can create excitement. And that includes, you know, player signings and trade situations and so on and so forth. And we just have to use some common sense and say, hey, what do we want to do here about promoting the sport and getting the best players into our sport?

And do we want to make this simple agreement or do we want to create carve routes where maybe our first round pick can get a $5 million signing bonus. And there's money allocated in the salary cap system or out of the pool. Out of that 50-50 split in the pool that's contributed to by players and owners where, like in Major League Baseball, there's a designated amount where a team has to sign their signing bonus, players to signing bonuses. And that's not even going back to when we were,

I think we were talking about limiting the draft as well. So that as opposed to having seven rounds. Three rounds. Yeah, we three rounds, two rounds, three rounds. Why do we need seven rounds? For another day. Always appreciate it my friend. You be well, enjoy the rest of your summer.

I will try hard not to bother you again. And by the way, that is a lie. But thank you for indulging me. Thanks Anton, you be well. Take care, bye bye. There he is, former NHL agent Anton Fun. One of the best, and when you want to talk about being involved in the CBA wars

and being on top of the CBA issues, I used to listen to Anton on Bob McCowen's primetime sports all the time during lockouts. And it was always fantastic, always fantastic conversations. So there you go. This one looks like an overwhelming win for the NHL. I'm still trying to find, there are some little wins in here for the players, but overwhelmingly,

this one's a home run for the league anyway park that conversation for now let's get right to our next guest and this segment is brought to you by simply spiked summer is here hanging out in the great weather with great friends you want that feeling to last forever but you can squeeze every drop out of summer now with simply spiked simply spiked has three delicious flavors the OG summer classic simply spiked lemonade is always a party favorite. Try a sweet and juicy summer sip with Simply Spiked Peach or check out the newest flavor in the Simply Spiked lineup. Simply Spiked Limeade it is sweet and it is tarts. Don't

know which one you want to try why not all of them with the Simply Spiked variety pack. These juice beverages are 5% alcohol contained real fruit juice and are the perfect refreshing and convenient summer drink. Simply Spiked pairs perfectly with any summer occasion, summer hangs, backyard and pool parties or a barbecue. Simply Spiked launched in Canada in 2023 and has been bringing the juiciness ever since. Pick up Simply Spiked at your local liquor store for the next summer hangout. Must be legal drinking age. Please celebrate responsibly. And with that, we bring in our next guest. He is Mike McMahon of the Great College Hockey Insider Newsletter, which is must read for anyone who wants to know

what is really going on in college hockey. And right now, Mike, I'm sure this is like the millionth interview you've had today, because on both sides of the border, everybody is talking about Gavin McKenna making it official last night and he will attend Penn State in his draft year. First of all, thanks so much for joining me. And it wasn't as if this one was totally unexpected. I think we've all sort of primed ourselves to be ready for this, but I've done plenty of interviews in Canada today, but stateside in the hockey community,

how massive a deal is this? How massive an announcement was that on SportsCenter last night? It was big. I mean, look, I can't remember ever seeing a college hockey commitment on SportsCenter. Or one of the lead stories. Or just talked about it all on a network like ESPN. And there's been some big names that have played college hockey over the years, obviously.

Macklin Celebriani was just here a year ago. But no one that has generated the type of buzz that Gavin McKenna's commitment generated. There's no question about that. I mean, he's projected first overall draft pick next year. You mentioned, you know, Macklin Celebrani as well was playing college hockey last year as well. It's not as if, you know, Canadian kids haven't gone to college hockey. Like, what makes this one, from your point of view, feel different?

Is it because of the new reality and he is the biggest fish that's out there leading into this new draft class? Because there are other players, and we'll talk about a couple of kids going to North Dakota here in a couple of seconds, but it's not as if he's the only one, but is it just because he's the biggest in this new reality and everyone's trying to figure out

what all of this is going to mean? I think so. Yeah, I mean, the way I look at it is it's the first time a player like McKenna could have made the decision that he's making, to leave the WHL and go to the NCAA. Players have had to make that decision before, of course, but they had to make it at 15 years old, or 16 years old.

They weren't able to make it after they had already been in the league. NCAA changes their rules, now these players can. So not only is it, it's the first year where players are able to do that. So that's generated a lot of buzz on its own, that we've had so many CHL players that have committed to NCAA schools, but it's the first year where players are able to do that. So that's generated a lot of buzz on its own that we've had so many CHL players that have committed to NCAA schools, but he's the biggest one.

Like he's the biggest fish. So I think that, uh, it became notable and even more notable when not only have a lot of guys chosen to go the NCAA route, a lot of potential first round picks next year, guys who were just drafted in the first round this year. Uh, but for a guy that looks like it's going to be the number one pick next year to make the decision to leave the WHL to go to the NCAA, I think that's why I feel so much bigger, it's because it's the first time that a player was able to make that decision and this player chose to make that same decision.

Is it just inevitable that everything right now is going to seem and feel bigger because it's, these is the first crop. Like I remember talking to Dan McKenzie about a month ago here on the program, and I said, what does all of this mean? And he said, I don't know. I don't think any of us really, it's a new reality. I've had plenty of people,

and I'm sure you've talked to people as well in Canada, who have complained about what's this going to mean for CHL and small market CHL teams essentially and how is their CHL going to have to reorganize themselves and what's the three leagues going to look like? And my answer is I don't know because no one really knows. I think it's a new reality that now that the Canadian kids playing CHL can extend into the NCAA and play Division I hockey. But this is just the first go-round with it, and we don't know ultimately where this is all going to lead.

Like, I don't think that, like, I don't think that Gavin McKenna is gonna be an ultimate audit on whether we see 17-year-olds go play Division I. Like, you're more of an authority on this. How many 17 year olds have had a significant impact in Division One? Let me ask you that question to begin with. Not many.

Yeah, I mean, you can count them on one hand. Owen Power, Macklin Celebrini, Jack Eichel. I mean, you could literally count Adam Ventilli. You can count these guys on one hand really over the last decade anyway. And then before that, before the guys like Eichel and Power and Celebrating, it almost never happened. It almost never happened that players at Young

were even making that jump to begin with. You know, there's also Keaton Verhoeffer goes to Nodak as well. I want to get to him and Cole Reschne, but you know, there are others and I do want to get to Porter Marton in a second. But one more thing about Gavin McKenna, and it's more of a comment on Penn State So I was told months ago as we're all sort of speculating who are gonna be the biggies and you know

It's like okay Michigan's gonna be in here Michigan State is is gonna be be all over this and someone told me this is going back I think it was like January watch Penn State said Penn State. Said Penn State has a war chest, and Penn State wants to start developing superstar players and graduate them into the NHL. And I just, I always remember that conversation

with that one person, watch Penn State. At what point did you, Mike, start to quote, watch Penn State in all this and by the way making the frozen four was the major shot in the arm that that program needed to even just jump start getting Gavin McKenna in the first place. Yeah I think that was as big as their their war chest of money that they had I mean look they spent a ton of money on players this year exact figures we don't know I've heard the McKenna figures in the

neighborhood of 700,000. That's kind of the rumor that's out there. I've had people dispute it and say it was closer to five. But again, like, I don't know. But again, this is what you do. I will defer to you on this every single day. Yeah, I mean, it was, I have a pretty good sense of, I think between five and seven is fair. Either way, it's a lot of money. It's a big one. Most money that any college, revenue sharing's new

in college hockey anyway, but this blows away what any other players ever received. The biggest number I've heard for any player up to this point was, the first number was still a one. I mean, we're talking like, you know, one, 150, somewhere in that range, for really good players. Your first round picks. Yeah.

But never, never a number this big. I think the frozen four component is huge because it's one thing to have a lot of money and offer players a lot of money to come to your school. But if you don't have a track record that that team is going to be successful, I don't know that those players are going to be interested. So I don't know that they would have had the success

that they had recruiting these types of players without that frozen for run. And the other big key component is they're one of the schools that has some of the best facilities in the country. The big 10 schools, some of the NCHC, some of the hockey's have NHL level facilities and in some cases better than NHL level facilities. Penn State is one of the schools that has those.

So that's a big component as well. I don't think a school with average or subpar facilities that just has a big chest of money to pay players was going to be in the Gavin McKenna mix or in the mix for any player like him. It kind of takes that perfect recipe of having some money, having the facilities, and having a team that you think can be competitive. And that's the pitch, right, Mike, like for our viewers and listeners that may not understand, like, okay, what do these pitches sound like? You know, if you're, you know, Michigan, Michigan State, Denver, Nodak, like, and you're at Penn State making the pitch to these players, what does that pitch sound like as you're

trying to get players away from junior hockey in Canada? I think the big pitch is physical development. That's what I've had a couple of coaches tell me. It's a shorter season. Not only is it a shorter season, the majority of the games are condensed on Friday and Saturday nights. So you've got five days between games,

in a lot of time, in a lot of cases. That allows for a lot of time in the weight room. If you're a player that needs to develop physically, you have more time to strength train. You have more time to give your body some rest. You're also practicing more too. I mean, they would argue there's more skill development there.

But I think the biggest thing is the physical development, the time to be able to be in the weight room. And I remember, this is 10 years ago, I did a story on Mike Matheson, I think it was for USA Hockey Magazine, about his decision to play for Boston College instead of, I believe it was the Quebec rim parts. It may have been Monk that I don't remember who drafted him, but he told the story. And again, every player is different, but he's a big, strong defenseman

knew he needed to get stronger. And I remember he told me the stories like my dad and I laid out the schedules on our kitchen table and said, okay, how many days a week can I lift if I'm here? How many days a week can I lift if I'm here? And he kind of X'd out day before and day after games. And in the queue at that point, he would have had some midweek games. And he basically said he was able to get in the weight room double the amount of time if he went the college route. That's why he chose to go to BC. So there's going to be player, I think that's really the biggest selling point to me from, from college coaches has been that the ability to physically develop. Cause you just, you

have more time off which Some would argue could be a bad thing too. Some argue that certain players need more game time That's why I think it will be moving forward an individual decision for players. What do you need more? Do you need more? Game time to develop do you need more? Physically time to physically develop what do you need more and both leagues offer offer something? You know, it's interesting to now one of the things that we're all following is which NHL teams sign their draft picks, which make them automatically ineligible. You know, I think that Michigan was watching Benjamin Kindle and thinking like, okay, is he going to sign with the Penguins

here or are we going to have a shot at him if he signs? He's going back to the Calgary Hitmen of the Western Hockey League. Porter Martone's fascinating right now. You know if you're the Philadelphia Flyers you have a decision here. You know you can sign Porter Martone, try to make the team play a couple of games and then he goes back to junior. Does he need a fourth year in major junior hockey or did they not sign him and then maybe listen Michigan State just lost Isaac Howard and it seems as if like maybe I'm being overly simplistic here, Mike. I don't know.

But if I'm Michigan State and maybe I'm doing this with a tiny little bit of background knowledge on this, if I'm Michigan State, I'm probably interested here. What have you heard about? I would be too. Yeah, I would be too. It's kind of funny. Both two teams lost Isaac's recently. Obviously Michigan State lost Isaac Howard last night, North Dakota thought they had Isaac Gordon from Michigan Tech, he ends up

deciding not to transfer when when they hired Bill McCaulter as their new head coach. So you got a couple of teams that have lost a couple of Isaac's the forward position that I both think would be interested in Porter Martone. I'm very intrigued in what happens here because it also sounds like I read something the other day that he may have the chance to sign in Philly. And I wonder about the Philly front office too, who just went through a year ago, kind of a messy situation with with Carter Gautier. So correct do you want to upset another you know high first round pick that wants

to sign? Is that something that's in the back of the minds of people in Philadelphia? So that one's very interesting if he goes to college route though I think Michigan State is absolutely involved as you would expect. Michigan probably too. I think North Dakota would be in that mix as well. Again, I know we've talked about it before but those types of players tend to only go to eight or nine or ten different types of schools anyway. It'd be the same candidates over and over that you can pick. Michigan State just the most glaring one because of the hole that they have there when Howard left last night. Um, you know, uh, interesting situation with the writer Richie, um, who ends up going to, to, to be you. And, you know, there was that moment when he was at Minnesota campus,

said, look, I want to keep all of my options open. Or I'm, I'm, I'm still thinking, I'm still firmly of the belief that he was maybe caught off guard and maybe like I can understand it he's young and maybe doesn't know what to say at that moment and is just used to sort of you know protect the hive and just say look I'm not sure yet. How did you see the Ryder Richie situation going? There's another medicine hat tiger who goes to to college hockey. So what i think and i don't know if this is specifically what happened with richie but i know what's happened with some other players so i i suspect it might be a similar story uh he didn't know what he was allowed to say i

think you know i believe that i believe that that's a great point i believe that yes because it's different yes all especially kids that have come up the chl route they've they've signed contract teams you know they've've signed contract with teams. You know, they've always signed contracts with their junior team with Medicine, had he signed a contract. And it's a little different now. The National Honor of Intent, which locked the recruit in to a college program before no longer exists.

You're basically uncommitted until you enroll at the school. And there's not really, there's not a piece of paper that you sign and, okay, now I'm here. You just enroll in the school and once you're enrolled, you're a member of that program. So I wonder, cuz I know this has happened with some other players, where he wasn't sure what he was allowed to say, didn't wanna get himself in trouble, didn't wanna get the school in trouble, and just said, I don't know.

Because I know that's happened with other players. I was his age and I was in his shoes. Mike, I would do the same thing. I would, it's always, you know, play dumb janitor. Oh geez, I don't know what's going on here. I just work here. I don't know what's happening. I would probably be the same.

We're surprised to see North Dakota get Frisky, not just Cole Reschney, Keaton Verhoff who, listen, you want to, Gavin McKenna is gonna go first overall, we strongly expect, but Verhoff is gonna give him a real, real push. This young defenceman, you know, played at Victoria Royals in the Western Hockey League, this kid is exceptional. This kid is fantastic. You're surprised that that Nodak has been as frisky as they have been? No, no, no. I mean they're one of those teams too. You walk around their facilities. NHL level might be selling it short for what they have

there. I can certainly see why that would be attractive to players like Verhoff and other top prospects. It's I'm real curious to see how this whole thing plays out. I agree with you. I mean McKenna is a presumptive number one pick. It's probably better than 90% chance he will go number one overall next year. But the fact that Verhoffs in a different league is a little bit of a heavier league, a league that plays a little more physical. The Big Ten tends to be a little more wide open. You see younger, more skilled players in the Big Ten. Traditionally, the NCHC with Denver and Western Michigan, you get a lot of burly Western Canadians that end up in the NCHC. And it Western Michigan, you get a lot of burly Western

Canadians that end up in the NCHC and it's just, it's a little bit of a different style. It's a little bit of a heavier league. I think if he goes there and plays as well as many expect him to, it will start to be a conversation. It may be a good conversation too, depending on who has that pick and does that team, what are their needs look like? But I think there are going to be some scouts if he has a similar year, different positions and all that, but a similar year in the NCHC as McKenna has in the Big Ten, you're going to get some conversation of, well, yeah, well, he did it in the NCHC, which is a little bit of a meat grinder, you know, in terms of just the style of play

he's gonna be up against every night. I'm curious how that plays out, it'll be interesting. Let me close out on this one. We've talked a lot about obviously Division I and the CHL. You know, one of the leagues here, and listen, the CHL changed their import rule from two to three, and we saw there's gonna be a lot of high-end European players that leave the USHL and go play in the CHL starting next season.

What happens to the USHL here through all of this? I mean, we knew that a lot of Canadian players, whether it's Macklin Celebrini or Adam Fantilli before him, you know, would still be able to go play CHL hockey and not go the USHL route even to get to college now that the barrier is gone. That's an obvious one. But now you're starting to see American kids go to the CHL as well. A lot of the European kids will leave. I'm curious to see what happens at Tyne and Lawrence. of the European kids will leave. I'm curious to see what happens at Tyne and Lawrence. If he stays in the USHL or he ends up somewhere else, Shikutemi, I believe has his rights and the Quebec League.

What happens here with the USHL through all of this, you think? I think it's going to be harder for them to have those Canadian players, obviously, right? Like you said, Fantili, Celebrini, there's no reason why they wouldn't have played in whoever drafted their CHL rights and played there instead of going to the USHL. I've used the same argument with the Alberti. It wasn't as many as the USHL obviously, but Kel McCarr isn't going to play in Brooks if this was an opportunity for him, right? So I think they're going to have less Canadian kids. I think with the American players, it and the is going to be very individualized for the specific player and what that player is looking for.

I don't think there's going to be a hard and fast, well, this is definitely going to happen with every player type of thing, except with the exception of the USHL and Canadians. It would make sense to me that those Canadian players would play for their CHL teams rather than go to the USHL. That was really just an avenue to keep their eligibility alive. And that doesn't matter anymore. This has been fascinating. I wish we could do this more and we will.

Mike, you're the best at what you do. The College Hockey Insider Newsletter is first class. I encourage everybody to subscribe and follow you. You're the go-to and you're the finest at it. Thanks so much for stopping by today. Much, much, much appreciated. I appreciate it. Anytime, thanks.

There he is. Listen, Mike is fantastic and I encourage you to check out his newsletter. His latest one, Gavin McKenna Commits to Penn State. It is just chock full of incredible information on a consistent basis. College hockey insider newsletter is first of its kind, first class of its kind. Vic, before I wrap things up here

and get to our final feature on the program, anything stand out to you? Look at you, look at you. Oh, even hanging out with Colby so much. You got your college. I've changed the legences. No kidding, holy smokes. Anything stand out,

stand out for you either from the conversation with Anton or from Mike? A lot, a lot actually. Jeff, you and Anton's conversation. I learned so much. The one thing that stood out to me and I think you and I discussed it a lot before the show too, was how they force fed us the fact that the Olympics were going to be a win for the players. And your explanation of it just completely turned me. The players wanted that. That was genius. But the thing is, this has been a long play by the NHL. This isn't just something suddenly.

I think the NHL recognizes the value of having their logo, their brand, their athletes right beside the Olympic rings and having their athletes involved on the biggest sports stage in the world. But they didn't, they didn't betray that publicly. They kind of let the players say, we want to go, we want to go. No, no, no, no, no, no. To me, this is like one of the great long play negotiations that we've seen. Because when they finally said, okay, fine. We'll concede on that.

The players treated that as if it's a win for them. That's a win for everybody. That's a win for the NHL and you know who knows that? The NHL guys. They have played this so beautifully. This entire negotiation, like you can even make the argument, this negotiation is an extension of what we saw back in 204 205 Right through up until you know Donald fear into the into this this new regime. This has been a long deliberate Negotiation where the NHL never really got off of their number one consideration and that is franchise of their number one consideration, and that is franchise value. And that goes right into doing the deal early.

You know why the NHL wanted to get this deal done early? Because they know that there are minimum two expansion markets out there that are willing to pay $2 billion, of which the NHL Players Association will not see a single penny. Now they'll get new jobs out of it, and that's what the Players Association will say, and that's how the NHL will portray it.

Oh sure, they're not getting a piece of the $2 billion per franchise, but they're getting jobs, and that's true. But they're not seeing a dime from that $4 dollars, which is why if I'm the Players Association I know why the NHL wants to hurry up and do a CBA because they can go out to market and say look You can invest two billion dollars in a franchise and we have labor peace There'll be no lockout. There'll be no strike. We have an agreement with the players Like there's value in that that's why I'm still stunned piece. There'll be no lockout, there'll be no strike. We have an agreement with the players. Like there's value in that. That's why I'm still stunned that the players association did this thing early. No pressure point. Nothing. Every, every point you've talked about, I don't see

anywhere in this CBA what we've know what's been released. I don't see anything where you can put a dollar value on what the players got back. There's no dollar value. It's it's more like a hey, it's a little bit of less work. You don't have to do a fitness test. Yeah, no, of course, I don't want to be bag skated. And you tell me I don't have to do bag skates anymore. That's great for me. But where's the dollar value in that?

There is none. There is none. There and there there's like the pension plan, the payroll tax, these types of things, the black aces get per diem. Yeah. Exactly. Get per diem. This is honestly, I'll, we'll have to like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I am curious. I would like to have some of the players association side of, of things.

Once, once this is all released, sort of walk us through, A, why they agreed to do this now. And if they were agreeing to do this now, why they didn't get a piece of expansion. I know that that's probably a hill for the NHL, but again, force of pressure point. Yep, absolutely. Anyhow, more on that in subsequent editions

of the sheet still to come. In the meantime, I'm curious about what you've come up with for this one. The sheet is powered by FanDuel, folks. Let me wrap things up here today. Home of the same game, Parley. Make every moment more on FanDuel. FanDuel, proud to connect fans to the major sports moments that matter to them. What do you have today, Vic? All right, well

we're gonna keep it on the Olympic theme, Jeff. They're going! What a win for the players. They're going! It's official. They're going to the 2026 Winter Olympics. It's a win for everybody. It's a win for the NHL too. It's a win for everybody except for the team that comes back with their goaltender injured and Scotches or Hang on. It's a win for the NHL too. It's a win for everybody except for the team. Then it comes back with their goaltender injured and Scotchers or Stanley Cup chances, which brings us to this. Yeah. OK, so we see Canada as the favorite here. And I don't really want to get into who you think is going to win.

I do want to get into. Who you think is going to win. Oh, yeah. Do you want to get into who you think could be a potential underdog or a surprise story? And you see the fins and I was thinking the exact same thing. The vibe is the vibe is the fins. The vibe is the fins. And for short tournaments, like fins can play fierce in short tournaments tournaments 100% I will look at I will look at Finns on this one. I've always had a bias towards Swedes is because I love Swedish hockey and I love Swedish athletes. But I'm sorry, like I got I got to go to their their rivals, the the Finns on this one for Dark Horse.

I was looking at the Finns as well. And a lot of it has to do with we just watched the Four Nations and we saw the hockey that was played and we saw three fights in nine seconds and we saw all this incredible NHL style hockey. So this tournament, how different is the play going to be with international reffing, international rules?

I'm not sure what the ice is going to be using. It's going to be NHL, no, it's NHL. It's NHL, 285. But international roughing. So I doubt we're going to see any. You're not getting fights off the face off. You're not getting fights. You're not, you're not.

And another thing is I want to get your opinion on is what do you think roster construction looks like? So a tournament like we saw in the Four Nations, you had guys like Cole Caulfield sitting at home and you had guys like Cole Caulfield sitting at home, and you had guys like Sam Bennett, for example. We thought it was going to be rough and it turned out to be rough, but we're not going to see that rough stuff.

So do you think Sam Bennett is on the team again? Do you think guys like Cole Caulfield get a chance where smaller skilled guys? Yeah, so I just did my roster for Team Canada for dailyfaceoff.com. I think that's coming out on Friday. So I'm really hypersensitive about this one. And the way that I defaulted to how I looked at the roster construction for Team Canada was like, there's the obvious players, right? And the six have already been named. Like, those are the obvious ones that are going to be there. But I wonder how much of a slant is going to be put on two way players,

200 foot players following the idea that if your best defensive players are your best offensive players, you can't lose a line matchup. And that's where, like I have Nick Suzuki making the team. Yeah. Well, he wouldn't have made this one though. And he didn't make this one. He didn't, he didn't make four nations, but for Olympics I've got Nick Suzuki making the team. These types of players, two-way guys as opposed to one-way specialists, excluding the top dogs. Like, you can have a Cole Caulfield on USA.

We just need someone that can score an easy goal. Because make no mistake about it. Here's the other thing about one dimensional players. For a tournament like this, if you have a guy, and maybe this is where someone like Jason Robertson becomes more attractive for USA, even though he was left off the foreign nations. If you have a guy, and this is where Kessel was always

so helpful for every team that he was on, who can release pressure just by scoring a couple of easy goals, that makes tournaments so much easier for your team. Like if you have to, I always think about this, I think about this for playoffs too, if you have to grind for every single goal, that takes such a toll on your team. And it is just awful. And if you have a guy that just comes down the wing, snap and puts it in, the whole bench just goes, an easy goal.

Find me a guy that you can't have too many of those guys because generally they're one dimensional. And here we are talking about Finns and Patrick Alain, but you can't have too many one dimensional guys, but I think there has to be at least some element of give me a guy that can score an easy goal. Because in tournaments like this, you need a guy that can score an easy goal. Because you have to grind for everything, it's a pain.

It hurts. And it's so funny, it's so funny you mention it because Kyle Connor was scratched for the gold medal game and he's a guy that can just put one in the net for you. So again, I will keep banging this drum. I understand that Matthew Kachuk was a big star at the Four Nations. Also understand, we all know, Matthew Kachuk was hurt for that last game. And really, even though he dressed, couldn't play.

And there's Kyle Conner. And you're USA and you're seeing yourself, we could sure use a goal here now. Yep. And Kyle Conner is saying, funny you're seeing yourself. We could sure use a goal here now. Yep. And Kyle Conner is saying, funny, you should mention that. I was just thinking the exact same thing. Yes. 100%.

If I'm USA, Kyle Conner is going. Kyle Conner is going to this thing. Yeah. And just to wrap here, that's, I think that's why we like the fans. You mentioned two-way players. You got the Barkovs, you got the Lusterinens. You got all the two-way up and down the ice. And they got good goaltending.

So there you go. That's it from you, Jeff. I like the fans. Awesome. Okay, listen, thanks to, I know we kind of went like, I'm trying to keep the summer series of shows short-ish. We had a lot to get to today with the CBA agreement and with the Gavin McKenna story and I hope you enjoyed the guests that we had.

Mike is outstanding. Mike McMahon is fantastic, as is Anton Fun, a former NHL agent who still very much pays attention to things like the CBA document. So hope you enjoyed that and hope you got something out of both those two guests who are very much experts in their field. We are back on tomorrow at 3 o'clock Eastern so the summer series continues. We're gonna go down to a couple of days a week starting next week as well and then we'll see what happens with August but we are very much staying on the air here at The Sheet. In the meantime thanks for being part of the chat. Thanks for watching on YouTube. Thanks for listening on Spotify, Apple Pods, etc. Whether you want to click the thumbs up, that would be awesome. You want to leave a comment, that's great

too. Rate, review, do all those things that make our lives here easier, please. The Hockey Talk continues right through the summer here on the Sheet. Thanks for being part of it just by lending us your attention and your ears. And if you're watching on YouTube, your eyeballs. So thanks for lending us some of your eye parts on your head. It sounds weird. I should stop. We'll be back tomorrow at 3 o'clock Eastern. I slept 16 hours last night, every day this week, every day this month I can't get out my head, lost all ambitions day to day, cause you can call it a rut

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