The Sheet with Jeff Marek - New Scoring Leader in Toronto ft. Mats Sundin, Shayna Goldman, and Dan MacKenzie

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Jeff Marek sits down with Maple Leafs legend Mats Sundin for a wide-ranging conversation that bridges generations in Toronto. Sundin reacts to Auston Matthews surpassing his franchise goal-scoring record, reflects on what that milestone means for the Maple Leafs, and revisits the blockbuster trade that brought him to Toronto. From playing alongside elite playmakers to defining moments in blue and white, Sundin offers candid insight into his career and the evolution of the franchise he helped shape.Later, Jeff is joined by Shayna Goldman of The Athletic to break down a busy NHL weekend, including Olympic roster discussions, key injuries around the league, and major storylines emerging from the World Juniors. From roster construction to on-ice trends, this episode delivers a sharp, informed look at where the hockey world stands right now.To close out the show, the President of the Canadian Hockey League - Dan MacKenzie - joins the show to discuss the passing of David Branch, his impact on junior hockey, carrying his legacy, and more.Subscribe to the Daily Faceoff YouTube channel for new episodes of The Sheet and in-depth NHL coverage every weekday.#TheSheet #JeffMarek #MatsSundin #AustonMatthews #TorontoMapleLeafs #ShaynaGoldman #TheAthletic #NHL #WorldJuniors #hockey LEAVE A VOICEMAIL: https://www.speakpipe.com/TheSheetReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So proud of Zach I'm so happy for Zach For the newly initiated here on the sheet Is our producer from day one Also host of Leaves After Dark Also, sometimes host of Leif's Morning Take Zach is very proud of you yesterday You had a chance

Yeah, and we'll hear the interview, the Nicol and I'm interview that I did later on. You had a chance to interview an idol, to interview someone that you pattern a major portion of your life after. And that is, you had a chance to talk to Matt Sundeen. Yep. Yesterday, it was you and Nick, right, Alperga? Yeah. I haven't gone back. I'm going to listen to it after the program today.

So we'll hear my interview, my little pithy 15 minutes with Sundeen here in a couple of seconds. but I don't really remember having that type of experience. Like when I did the Dan Carlin podcast, that might have been the most nervous I've ever been for a podcast because to me that's like winning podcast fantasy camp. Like to me, Dan Carlin is the Cadillac of podcasters. And to be invited on his show was like, wow, this is incredible. But tell us about, before we get rolling on the show here,

A, what Matt Sundin meant to you, and B, what it was like interviewing Matt Sundin and C, has the swelling gone down yet um it was the one of the coolest experiences ever like i i explained to you i've not really been that nervous at any point in my career i have no problem public speaking and doing this kind of stuff hence how i got here but uh there's been three times i've been nervous to do shows and they're all very differently but the first one was the first time i hosted leaps morning taking fill in for nick albergen did it with rosy just because it was a different setting and I was on that channel doing my show never really faze me.

I just jumped in and kept doing it. The second one was when I did the first show with you. Part of it was because of what the show was, who you are. And also, I was like, I don't want to be the reason this thing goes off the air. The way you're supposed to say that now is, and because of who you think you are. No, no. Not who you are. You are Jeff Merrick.

Anyway, anyway, anyway, but anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway. Anyway, the final one was Matt Sundeen yesterday, and that's the most nervous I've ever been. That was, I wanted to be Matt Sundeen as a kid. Like, I wanted to be a Maple Leaf, but more specifically, I wanted to be Matt Sundeen. I wore number 13. I wanted to play center. Like, my parents still say to this day, if I started crying, there was two ways to get me to stop crying. Put me down in front of the TV.

And if there was no hockey, they had to put on the jungle book. And that was it. If there wasn't those two things, I was crying. They said by the time I was two years old, I could name every player on the Leafs. And it was like, it's just Matt Sundeen was the guy for me. I spent a lot of time here gushing about it to open the program. But to sit down and actually speak with him myself was one of the coolest experiences that I've had so far in my career. I'm so thankful to get the platform and the opportunity to do it.

That was beyond cool. So if you haven't already, go out and watch slash listen to, Zach's interview with alongside Nicole Berger of Matt Sundyne. That's what I'm going to do after the show today is going and check that one out because this is, uh, you, you entered the, you entered that interview a boy, but you left a man.

Zach, is that how you, is that how you felt out? No, we'll see. Now I can slay dragons. I'm scared to watch it back because I'm worried that my nervousness came through. So I don't even know yet if it did.

I had some text from people saying that it was good. It did a good job. So I appreciate that, but I'm a little. nervous to even watch it myself because I'm like, what did I sound like? My voice cracking? I don't know. Go back and watch it two years later.

And that way you can have a little bit of distance between it. Anyhow, happy for you. And very proud of you as I'm sure your family is as well and all of your longtime listeners and viewers. Okay, let's get back to the show because I want to do, I want to air our version of this, of the interview with Matt Sundeen here. So the Blueprints, as we all know, is powered by Fanduel. Download the app today and play your game.

on Fan Duel. Coming up on the program, Matt Sundin, making the rounds after Austin Matthews broke his record of the most goals scored by a Toronto Maple Leaf. Matt Sondin, we sat down with Matt's yesterday morning, and you'll hear that interview in a couple of seconds. He does talk about Austin Matthews and a number of other things, including, but not exclusive to his trade to Toronto. We kind of got both sides here inside of a month when we were doing one of the Del Manor events. Wendell Clark shared his. We'll put that up against Boria Solmings. Second time I've done that against Matt Sundin's version of what happened and how he found out.

Shana Goldman is going to stop by. I haven't had a chain on for a few weeks. We're going to remedy that today. So Shane, of course, from the Too Many Men podcast, she writes at The Athletic, you know where you love her, does occasional work here and elsewhere. A sort of tour around the NHL as the NHL is now at the halfway point. And then we're going to talk about international hockey. And we're going to talk about Team Canada and USA as well.

The final in the world juniors, as we all predicted, Czechia facing off against Team Sweden. Another thing that we're going to add to the program today, this just coming in a second ago, Dan McKenzie is going to stop by. Dan is, you've seen and heard Dan here before, the president of the Canadian Hockey League. And we'll talk about the career of Dave Branch, who passed away yesterday at the age of 77. you know up until brian crawford took over i never knew another commissioner of the o hl other than dave branch uh as a fan i knew i mean he started as a commissioner of the o hl in 1979 he's the only one that i've ever known i was a long time president of the chl as well uh helped shepard in a lot of changes

whether it is um academic scholarships whether it is mental health initiatives uh violence curbing in the OHL specifically was a coach himself from the Whitby Minor Hockey Association, which is about 20 minutes away from me. So I want to talk to Dan about his predecessor, the now deceased, the late Dave Branch, who was honestly, again, in hockey circles, everybody knows Dave,

and everybody knew Dave. And he was a giant in an industry full of giants. And I always admired the fact that, you know, he was there for a long time. Like, that's what you want from your commissioner. Someone who's, you know, in for a penny, in for a pound, you know, where some people may look at a title like that and say like, yeah, you know, I'll be the commissioner of the OHL for like five or six years and then move on and do something else. Dave, like others, Ron Robison and Angel Corto, were in it for the long haul. So we'll talk about the career of Dave Branch with Dan McKenzie coming up here in a little bit on the sheet.

In the meantime, yesterday's big news around these parts. was, I had a chance to sit down with Matt Sundeen, former Maple Leaf, former Vancouver, Connock, former Quebec, Nordique, former gold medal winner with team Sweden, and talk to him about the record that has now fallen after 18 seasons. Matt Sundeen now number two all time amongst Maple Leaf skull scorers, Austin Matthews with the pair in a losing effort against the New York Islanders on Saturday.

Here's my conversation yesterday with Matt Sundeen. Budweiser Zero and Matt Sundeen are marking Austin Matthews record-breaking moment by celebrating the kings of assists because behind every goal there's a bud who made it possible. Pleased to be joined by Matt Sundeen right now, Hockey Hall of Famer and the man that held the record up until Saturday, two-goal performance by Austin Matthews. I am curious because Matt, you held this record for 18 years. You're a proud captain of the Toronto Maple East for a long time. What went through your mind when Austin Matthews finally broke the record? Finally, I was thinking.

I thought he was going to break it earlier before Christmas. Now, I'm sure he's just the way I really can sense how he felt just to try to get it behind him and focus on the important things in the midst of an important season and try to win points for Toronto instead of focusing on breaking records. I think it's something he's going to recognize even more once his career. is over, but I'm sure he's relieved, and in myself, records are made to be broken, so I'm very glad that it's Austin breaking my goal scoring record for the Toronto Police. He's a fantastic player and an even better person and a captain. You know, Matt, I'm really glad you said that

because, you know, the record that you broke was Daryl Sittler's, and when I was a kid, you know, Daryl, my three favorites were Mike Palmetier, Boria Salming, and Daryl Settler. Salming may be my favorite out of all of them. But I can I can recall being a kid and he broke Davey Kian's record. I thought how cool that was. And I like that you said that, you know, records are meant to be broken because I believe that every generation of fan should think that their players are the best and breaking all the records from before. Do you feel that way? Absolutely. I think that's a natural way for it to go. And then some records are going to be harder to break, obviously, but if Obechkin can break Wayne Gretz's goal scoring record,

any record can be broken, so we know that. And, you know, different areas, different types of hockey, some areas are going to be more goal scoring because of different reasons, rules, players, but players are more talented today. The game is faster. We get rid of hooking and holding and trying to slow down our skilled players. And very, very, glad to see Austin breaking my goal record with Toronto. You know, and none of it gets done without teammates and, you know,

the lion's share of Austin's goals certainly helped along by someone like Mitch Marner. I am curious because you had a number of wingers when you played in Toronto and I think a lot of people liked you with Gary Roberts and a lot of people liked you with Alexander McGilney. I always loved you with

Michael Renberg. I thought Renberg was really underrated. The way he would lean on defensemen all game long, and then the third period would show up and the other team's D would be exhausted because there's big heavy Renberg leaning on them. Like, do you have like one of your linemates who you thought never really got their due

and was really underrated? Well, I think, you know, you mentioned Alex McGilney and I look back at that. When he came to Toronto, he was at the end of his career and it was too bad. We couldn't get him to Toronto in his prime at 26, 27 or even earlier, but, you know, like you said, goal scores and players are never better than your linemates,

the people that pass you, the puck, the playmakers, but the complete team. And, you know, if you're looking to win a championship, whether it's Olympic gold or winning a Stanley Cup, you're never going to get further than you need a complete team, from goal-tending to defense to forwards, to be able to get through because the competition is so hard. And I'm sure Austin Matthews, you look at the players who's been around for these years,

breaking my goal scoring record, he has some great teammates that helped him achieve this great goal. You know, one of the things that I've always enjoyed about, you know, living in Toronto and around Toronto, watching the Maple Leafs as a kid, I can still recall, as I mentioned, you know, Boria Salming and Inga Hammerstrom. Like they were the big two in the NHL for a long time. And then there were more with the Jets and the WHA. And then Kent Nielsen became one of my favorites. And even to this day, there's William Nealander on the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And I love that for a while there, Peter Forsberg was the best power forward in the NHL. And Nick Lindstrom can lay claim to being the best defenseman of all time in the NHL. When you think about Swedish hockey, the history of it in the NHL and where it's at now, what goes through your mind? Well, I think Sweden should be very proud, and the National Hockey League as well, but for a small country, smaller than a lesser population, or pretty much the same as Ontario, I think a little bit less Sweden is, you know, since the Boris Salming era, who paved the way for my generation, Lidstra, myself, Peter Forsberg, and others, to, when you look at it today, you know, someone told me, it's over 80 players that started in the starting rosters this year in the national hockey league I think there's over 100 there is in and out of the lineup and we look at at the future for Swedish hockey right now there's three as three of the top players in the world juniors are are Swedes as well some you know anthem frondel and ivar stanberg and vigo bierg so

Sweden has a very strong hockey program. I'm very proud to be part of the area that I was in, but Swedish hockey is doing well, and we're still producing great players. So the system is very strong right now in Sweden for developing hockey players. I'm glad you mentioned those three as well, and specifically Vigo Bjork, who's just been every single game for Sweden in this tournament. He's been the best player for Sweden. He might not be the biggest guy. I keep saying, If he's six foot two, he's going first overall, but he's been nothing short of outstanding. I want to ask you about Captain C2, because as you mentioned, there's a lot of things around being the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I've heard plenty of stories about how you handled the room and how you handled players.

There was one I was reminded of recently where Pat Quinn wanted to close the door on a bus and just leave, but there was a player late. You said, Pat, no, I will handle it. We will handle this as a team and that player was never late to the bus. excuse me, to the bus again. What type of extra pressure is there when you're the captain of this team? Well, you almost need to have been a player in Toronto to understand what representing Toronto in the National Hockey League is like. But it is different than anywhere else in the hockey world.

I think we both know that players that come to Toronto, it doesn't matter if they're Canadian or even growing up in Ontario or in the city, once they put on that sweater, they're like, oh, my God, wow. I didn't realize the media following and the interest for the team. So it's different, and it comes with certain things that you have to handle, that has nothing to do with what's going on on the ice, really in terms of answering for the team's performance. And I think Austin has done a fantastic job.

And, you know, I look at some of the best leaders that I play with and played against, you know, including Joe Sackick in the beginning of my career, Nicholas Lidstrom, first European captain, I think, to win us down the cup with Detroit, watching Scott Niedemeyer all those years and Doug Gilmore and, you know, most of them very quiet in the dressing room, you know, and there's no secret. It doesn't just relate to hockey, but you lead by example. And all great leaders. leaders that I've known and played with in the national hockey league and in the national team have those characteristics. And I know Austin is the same way. He leads by example on the ice and he's a great teammate. And I know the respect he has among his teammates. So he's doing a great job in a very tough position being the captain in Toronto. And you draw the toughest assignments too. It's always the first line players that are out there against you. I remember like One of my favorite things to watch in your era was watching you play against Bobby Holick. It's like, all right, here comes Matt Sundeen and Bobby Holick.

It's going to be miserable for everybody. And as a fan, you're just going to enjoy watching it. Who are the toughest guys, two things, who are the toughest guys to play against for you that always gave you fits? And two, I had heard that you lobbied the Maple Leaf to try to bring in Bobby Holick as well. Was that true? You know what? I'm getting old, but I don't remember. doing that, getting Bobby Haleek

to the leaves. I don't remember trying to lobbying for that, but we were, you know, our area, you know, the devils had a fantastic team. They won the Stanley Cup a few times when we ran into them in the second round, I think a few times, and

in the end, and we took them to six and seven games, but the combination of Scott Stevens and Niedermeyer there, where you have one really solid, strong defensive defenseman to try to hurt the forwards and then you have scott needy to my honest side that that actually beat forwards up the ice yeah and could carry the puck and and uh be a playmaker's so

i would say um playing against the devils with and then once you beat them you had martin bauder back there uh arguably the best goal tender in the league at the time uh ray boer comes to mind unbelievable respect for what kind of a player what kind of career ray bork had as a uh as a a defenseman and and then um i always talk about nicholas lidsdra my fellow countryman that i had to play all the time when we played detroit and nicholas had his own way never he i don't think he threw a hit in his 22 year career didn't have to but was was never out of position poked the puck away from the best forwards and was miserable to play against and you realize that the game that wasn't that hard of your game but we still lost and nicholas was plus four uh

So, and they all did it in different ways. They really did. You know, one of the things when we think about goal scoring, we think about hockey sticks. I know I certainly do. And I can recall there was that era and everybody started grabbing them. Remember the era where everybody on your team and it seemed at times like you were the only one that really knew how to use it? Grabbed all those TPS XN tens.

And like everybody tried and taking a pass was hard. And then you guys would throw bullets at you and you would take it, no problem, fire the puck. What do you remember from that era where everybody was hopping on the X-N-10 train? Well, they were breaking in the beginning. And I had a, you know, I used a very hard flex on my sticks. And I remember they were fine in stick handling and taking wrist shots and passes. But once you try to do it one timer, they broke in the beginning. But sticks came a long way and even shooting techniques.

Nowadays you see, which I think is important, the one-timers, and especially on power plays and getting the puck to the net quick, goaltenders are so good nowadays, and players are great getting in the line of the shot. So the quicker you can get the puck to the net, the better chance you have in the scoring. But sticks came a long way from when I played, and we kind of started the era of the carbon and the Lundi stick in the beginning and the newer models. Man, you guys fired them. Okay, last one, last question for you. I recently did an event with Wendell Clark. And one of the questions I asked Wendell was, where were you when you found out about

the trade? I was shooting a Cheerios commercial in Mississauga. So I drove back to the city. I'm at the S.O. station, not that there's a big deal that I remember. I was at front and Bathurst when I got traded at the S.O. station. And I turned the radio station on to see who we draft. That's right. Because the Hartford draft was on. The draft was on. So I was, well, I wonder who we drafted.

So I turned the radio station on and that's when I heard I got traded to Quebec on the radio station. Where were you when you found out that you had been moved from the Nordiques to the Maple Leafs? Well, it was kind of funny. I was actually in a, in a fishing, I was fly fishing in a stream about 20 kilometers, 30 kilometers outside. now the hometown of boris homing because i was up there for boyish hockey school and uh we're standing there fly fishing and there's a helicopter coming in and i'm there with my brothers and we're like what's going on and there's a tv team a guy jumps out of the helicopter in a white t-shirt and jeans a reporter and the poor camera guy same outfit and there was mosquitoes and black flies

and they got eaten alive. They did the interview in about 27 seconds and they jumped back to the helicopter and they left slow. I'll never forget that the moment I got traded. So they were the ones that told you? Yeah, they broke the story. Hey, you've been traded to the leaves.

What do you think about that? Wow. Times have changed. And speaking on times of change as a new goal scoring king in Toronto. Mats, you're always generous with your time. I thank you very much for stopping by with me today. Much appreciated.

And I know there's a big birthday party happening at your house, so we'll let you get back to your son's birthday. Thanks so much for this. Thanks for having me. There is Matt Sandine. The new number two amongst Toronto Maple Leaf's goal scorers. Yeah, so one was fly fishing, one was pumping gas. Guess which one was from Saskatchewan?

Guess which one was from Sweden? We thank Matt Sandine for stopping by the program today and our friends at Budweiser for making him available. A couple of things here. I do want to get a couple of thoughts in on what we saw at the World Juniors over the weekend, specifically. And again, like bronze medal game was this afternoon, gold medal game, Czech in Sweden coming up later on tonight. A couple of thoughts on the state of Canadian junior hockey.

There's a couple of pithy observations that I want to sort of share with people. And if we have time, I do want to talk about the suspensions that we saw over the weekend, the one gamers for the sucker punches, one with Logan Stanley. and one with John Beecher. In the meantime, I want to bring aboard Channing Goldman, but first want to remind you, this segment is the presentation of Bauer and the Bauer Pulse. The first Bower stick to feature their latest kickpoint innovation.

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contains ultra lightweight and rigid boron fiber material, which creates a high strength to weight ratio and optimizes energy storage and increases reactivity. Featured on 40 flex sticks and above for more information, checkoutbauer.com. And with that, we'll bring her in. You recognize it from One sec, Jeff. Oh, we're standing by for Shana. I'm getting the hold up here. We're just fixing something. One second.

Sorry about that. Shane is getting fixed up here before she joins the broadcast. So a couple of things quickly. With the Canadian situation, and probably more on this, like I don't know that it's going to be a massive hand-wringing amongst Hockey Canada. We'll see. But this is another early exit of the World Junior Hockey Championship.

I think ultimately more than anything else when you look at Team Canada, and most specifically in the game against Chequia yesterday, this team couldn't defend, right? Jack Ivan Kovic, even though he surrendered a ton of goals yesterday, Jack Ivan Kovic was not to blame the National Predators' goaltending prospect. This was a team that, in their own zone, had a really hard time. And you saw it every single time, and specifically in the third period, you saw it every single time there was a zone entry against Canada. It was panic time, panic time, panic time, house on fire, house on fire, and Canada really didn't know what to do. And I'll tell you, you know, there used to be, you know, growing up, there was

always the feeling that European hockey was too much soft skill and there wasn't enough competitiveness in them for them to win. Right now, if you just look at this tournament and you look at how outside of Brady Martin, Team Canada played, that's flipped. Team Canada got outworked, team Canada got out hustled, and Team Canada just wanted to, to borrow a Nash phrase, skill it up all tournament long. And as one person pointed out to me, the reason that Brady Martin stood out on Team Canada, the reason that Brady Martin, again, another Nashville prospect, plays with Sue Stain Greyhounds of the O'HL, why he seemed like he was a unicorn is because Team Canada, when

they're winning gold medals every single year, had eight Brady Martins on the team. More discussion to come on this issue. Canada faces off against Finland for the bronze later on this afternoon, which is a great way to bring on Shana Goldman, who's probably all smiles about this from the Too Many Men Podcast and also the athletic Shannon Goldman joins me now. Hello, Shana. Hey, what would I be all smiles about? about? I don't know. Canadian tears. I mean, didn't USA have to go out first for that to

happen? Well, they won, you know, Canada won one extra, one extra game. At least like the way that USA, USA went out with, you know, a couple of bad injuries. First of all, they didn't get any goaltending. USA, you know, Cole Hudson gets injured in that freakish, scary accident with the, with a shot in the back of the head. And Max Plant is out. I know that expectations are always to win gold, but that was going to be tough. Trevor Connelly out even before the tournament. started but this was supposed to be like the pathway for Canada and they got like all of a sudden now the Swedes look like they're playing like old school Canadians and sort of the checks they just grind you into the ground just grind you right into the ice and it's an

amazing thing that we see happening at least at the junior level uh with with with international hockey anyhow um how are you nice to see you again it's been a while right yeah it's been a few It's been a few weeks. You've got to get this back more regular. Where to begin with here? I want to get your thoughts on a team that every now and then when we write them off, we remind ourselves, it's the fool that bets against the Tampa Bay Lightning. That no matter what the injuries are, what the hardships are, what the bad play is,

Tampa is going to be all right. And I can't help but thinking to myself, this might be, although there were other seasons where John Cooper probably should have one coach of the year. Like, this would have to cinch it, right? With all the injuries, one seven in a row, top of the table, all of it. Also, Mosier is elite and Darren Radish is elite. Now Braden Point has come back around. Do you ever thought on what we're seeing with Tampa right now?

Yeah, I mean, I thought they had a great regular season last year, but it's so interesting. I feel like the really good teams, it's like, what's the new challenge for the season? Like, what's the hurdle you're going to have to cross, right? like the abs is going to be how do you win in the playoffs when you don't face as much regular season adversity for the lightning hits how are you going to keep doing this when you have no cap space no assets and now a million injuries and then add in the top end talent not playing like the top end talent with brayden points start and it's it's really incredible what they've done

i think john cooper deserves a ton of credit because we've seen not just the players and the supporting chaos interchange but a lot of the coaching staff too right and you know names like derrick lond have been talked about a lot with the penalty kill in toronto and what he did in Detroit. And you think about how well it clicked under John Cooper. And I think he deserves more credit for that, too. It just, it feels like coaches get hit because they have elite talent, right? But you have to know how to coach elite talent. You have to know how to put them in the right position. You need to know what to do with the bottom six. And now this year, to bring in players from the Syracuse Crunch, and let's face it, these are not top draft

picks. They haven't had that in years. It's a thinner prospect pool, but you get creative. You stick to the system and it all works. And that's what they're doing. It's been, listen, it's been a fun story to follow for the longest time here too. And listen, they've played pretty much like the majority of the season without Victor Headman and Ryan McDonough. And that opened up the door for J.J. Mosier and opened the door for Darren Radish as well. Do you have a thought on the latest two studs on the back end for the Tampa Bay Lightning, as we all predicted? Oh, I really want to get into J.J.J. Moser, because I think he's such an interesting player because when they acquired him, you know, he had played really tough minutes in Arizona. His numbers were in a trade. Circuit chip trade.

circuit trade for so everyone knows. Yeah. So with that, you know, it was a little bit risky because he didn't have this incredible track record. And also he had experience playing on the right, but he didn't have the greatest results on the rate. And you really didn't know how much of it was the team around him, the system, or just the outright usage because he was playing, you know, against such top competition without a ton of support. I think he was very good on the right last year. But I think it's so interesting to see how well he's played on both sides of the lineup. When Victor Hedman was in, that pair was really, really good. he was on the right. But now he's on his natural side and it opens up this really interesting

question of like, what do you do with him long term? Do you keep him on the right this year? Do you look for a right for Victor Hedman when he's back and let Morser, you know, carry his own pair on the left? Or is he just the succession plan? Because, you know, Hedman and McDunner are getting up there that soon he'll be their top left defenseman. It's so interesting. We don't always see defenseman shift sides because so many coaches are stuck on. You need to play on your natural side. Here's someone who's just thriving on both sides. And now it's a really good question for the lightning to figure out the rest of the year and, you know, now beyond with that extension. Well, one of the things that I've always been told by coaches about defensemen playing on their,

on their quote-unquote wrong side is, yeah, you can do it in the offensive zone. Guys can play on their backhand at all that. He said the one area where you really get caught is when you're coming around, when you're coming around the net, if you're coming around on your wrong side, that extra split second when the forecheck is coming on, that F-1 is flying, that's where you can get caught. because it's that extra second to make that first pass when you're coming out from around the net. That's where I've noticed a lot of coaches are sensitive. But I agree with a player wrong side on the, they do it on the power play.

This was the lesson of the Russians in the 70s, right, how they all played sticks in the middle. Because, you know, Canadian specifically, Canadians were always sticks to the outside, stick to the outside, protect the puck, keep it to the wall, keep it away. And the Russians in the 70s, especially on the power player, are like, we want our sticks in the middle so we can always shoot. Right? Like that's the great lesson. And better shooting angles right there. Better shooting angles. Yeah.

Absolutely. I'm curious who you think is a myth and who you think is legit here. Let me throw a couple of teams at you. Detroit Red Wings. And let me preface this by saying, I had a conversation with someone yesterday. We had a great line to me. We're talking about Steve Eisman and what he still wants to do with this team. And this person said to me, Jeff, don't forget, Steve Eiserman is not Bill Gairn.

Steve Eiserman is not Bill Garan. I mean, he had a chance to be Bill Garan with Quinn Hughes, but he wasn't in a part with what Bill Garron did. I still think that they want one more top six forward, probably a center like everybody else. And they want one more top four D, probably a veteran. So I don't think that they're done yet. But are they getting close to Shana Goldman saying,

yeah, Detroit's legit? Okay, hold on. Bill Garron wasn't Bill Garron until the Quinn Hughes trade, because every single thing he's done in the years up to this point, fit in the whole Steve Iversman like this is more and do more please but he wasn't he was in salary cap prison he couldn't do anything

he's in salary cap jail now that he's got a little flexibility all of a sudden it's like every night every Friday have two Saturdays it's party time with Bill Guerin what's he going to do next listen keep going make it interesting but now I'm I'm waiting for Steve Weirsman to do something I think past deadlines we've seen you know like it was I think two years ago he didn't do anything and it was like

this was the moment do something but he really didn't think the team was ready and you're like okay fine last year they didn't do anything and you're like just give him that push if he doesn't do something this year then i literally do not know what to tell you because this is the year to go for it i think the atlantic we've seen it's wide open detroit has built himself up a really great lead so far and it's not like the team is perfect right i think you're seeing right now the top six that to bring headline is carrying the red wings that lark in line really hasn't been producing like we've expected them to over the last really month now so yes they need a top six uh

no question about it. Another defenseman would be great for them. It's going to be pricey. But if any team has the assets, it's them, right? You don't have to necessarily take three first round picks and throw them in the garbage for a rental out there. I think that the Red Wings are in this interesting position because they're one of the few teams that could acquire someone who could fit into the long term plans too. So definitely want to see them, you know, take a jump this year because they're legitimately good. There's some really promising things going on here. and I think it starts on that back end with Cider, I've been saying they are fantastic. Cider, Norris legit.

I know Cal McCar is running away with this thing, but like outside of Cal McCar, remove him from the equation. Cider in that Norris conversation? He's in two conversations for me. And I'm going to be writing about both of these things over the next month. First, about I'm putting him in the Hart Trophy race. I think I know Nathan McKinnon's going to win it. I totally understand it.

And, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You think Nathan McKinna wins it right now? Who do you think wins it right now? Macklin Celebrini. I don't think Celebrini wins it right now, but I think he should be in it because it's going to come down to the whole definition, right? Do you view it as the most valuable player in the league? Yes, not the best.

Not the best. No, the most valuable player to their team, the definition of the trophy. Right? If you just go by the actual definition of the trophy, this is Macklin Celebranys. Like he doubles the second leading score on the San Jose Sharks. You can't say that about Connor McDavid. You can't say that about Nathan McKinnon. but I'm curious to hear your

I would actually be closer to giving it to Kel McCar than Nathan McKinnon but I'm curious your your rationale for more at Cider I mean he's been absolutely incredible for them like he to me is this like stabilizing force on the back end he is the reason they are as good as they are

defensively and he plays big minutes he is helping thread the needle offensively too he does everything he's great in all situations like to me he is last year the year before it I would have given it to Dill Larkin. And I love, you know, when you get that option of not just the best players, but you actually get to have this conversation. Like last year for me, Nick Suzuki, I think was my number

five. Sider right now is top three for me, without a doubt. And Sellegrini's up there too. This is, I think, potentially running Thursday early next week. Like, here are the guys that should be in the race because they're most valuable to their team. So I'm going to have like more on it then. But I think Sider's in that. And I think he should be in the Norris conversation because, again, you're going to get into now the conversation with that award of what is the Norris trophy. it the best defenseman or is it truly the best all around guy and mccar is up there like mccar is unbelievable don't get me wrong but i think you have a different conversation now this year because of guys like cider and sanderson that are that more traditional mold but they're legitimately that good

we're not just going like okay look they play big minutes and they block shots is is this i mean this is the season where more at cider has sort of for even for casual hockey fans popped like everyone's sort of starting to get it here now i mean we've all watched more more at Cider, play for the Detroit Red Wings, not miss a game, which we should point out as well, like from the hop, boom, more at Cider is playing. And just get top assignment after top assignment, I would always be like, man, I would hate to be of all, of all, you know, trainers, therapists, doctors in the NHL, I'd hate to be Detroit's just to see Moritz Cider at the end of a season after getting like such heavy elite

level usage out of the Detroit Red Wings. Why this season was cider? I mean, I think they adjusted his usage. What was it? When Todd McAllen took over, like instead of burying him as much as it was, but like he's still playing those assignments, but it just felt like the usage was overdone.

They were just drowning the guy. I think having a more capable partner this year definitely helps. And Ed Vincent has been that more. I think he's grown a ton in the last year. But you just look at what he does. And it's, you know, he's good at defense. the blue line. He's great at retrieving pucks and he's just a workhorse who can do a little bit of

everything, right? It's not as flashy. And I think sometimes we get distracted by that, right? Like the Quinn Hughes and Camel cars of the world are the top two defensemen in the league for a good reason. But when you get to that next little tier and it's the Rasmus Dahlines and the Murrow Haskanins, it's what you don't see sometimes. And that's harder to measure and it's harder for those guys to pop. And cider's in that category because he's not the most prolific score, right? But it's what doesn't happen? How the hell do you measure that? What doesn't happen? It's such a challenge. But you just see the little things and what he does to get his team activated back offensively because it's not the deepest forward group in the league. And I think he really helps them and supports

them. He's just like a stabilizing facilitator. He's a little bit of everything. And I think it's just great to see him coming into that role and getting the attention for it because he's been good for so long. But it just feels like it's coming together on a different level finally this year. Remember when I see if I's been drafted him in Vancouver and everyone thought he was nuts. I'm not a prospect of experts. So it was like, okay. I was like, all right.

Everyone's, you know, dramatic about it. But I'm just like, all right. And I just kind of breeze that one off. Like, that's not my thing. What do you think Andrew Mangiopani ends up? And why is it Columbus? I mean, Columbus would make sense. They're a pretty fast team.

You could totally make sense there. I think back of those. those days in Calgary when he was really good on the score sheet and you kind of saw like he was like one of those Cy Young guys where he was scoring some of my goals and have many assists but he was you know he's really good off the rush and he was really disruptive to me he could be this like perfect third line guy like I honestly don't think he belongs higher in a lineup than that and it's not a knock because you think of all the Stanley Cup champs and how important the third line is and how it gets overhyped but like that role is so important and I think he's someone who could

just be this all situation guy when everything's clicking it just just doesn't all happen at once. And I did think the Oilers were going to be a good fit for him. But it's like not working out team after team after team. So I'm very curious about it. Like he definitely needs to be that like interesting, speedy, that, you know, a guy who can add something in transition, but he needs a good passer with him. I don't think he's dimensional enough past that right now.

And I don't know how that one's going to work out. Speaking of Columbus, up four to one of the Pittsburgh, Penguins, this is great, tucked away, going to win a game, back to back. We just ended the Buffalo Sabres winning streak, and next thing you know, Sidney Crosby is scoring an overtime and the Columbus Blue Jackets lose again. What happens here? Like, I've wondered if I had, Don Waddell was on the program last week and we were

talking about some of the UFAs on the horizon. Charlie Coil is one, Boone Jenner, Mason March, Metacentra, and Waddell pretty much said, look, we're going to wait until after the Olympic break. And I don't know if that was code for, we're going to see what happens and what offers we get here, or we're really going to take a run

at signing these guys after the Olympic break. What do you think happens in Columbus here? I'm going to be really curious about Jack Graves' usage. That is what stood out to me about yesterday's game because I was kind of surprised he got back-to-back starts. And granted, he got back-to-back starts a couple weeks. He did. A week ago ago, no, the 20th, 29th he started.

We could go, yeah. So I think it was, what, six straight starts, including a string of back-to-back starts. to backs and now he was going again. And when you see that third period collapse, like, it wasn't on just him, but like, this is, I'm not a goalie expert. Okay. I don't think you could be a goalie expert unless you're fully, but this is me spitballing, okay? Let's not take it as gospel. To me, I go, was that goalie fatigue at this point? Like, was that just third period fatigue by him? I don't know. On top of some defensive breakdowns. He's an incredible athlete, though. I will get that

to Jack Greaves. He is a tremendous athlete. And it's funny because I asked Waddell about that. And he talked about, yeah, we measure, like, have a look at, like, what the workload was, in the previous game, should we do this back-to-back? I don't know if we're starting to see more of that because I know a lot of people in the Goldie crowd, like I don't care what the analytics say, I don't care what the numbers say about this.

Like, I want to play back-to-back games. We're going to play back-to-back games. But I don't know. Like, are we seeing more of this? It feels that way. Where it used to be like there was a stretch there where it was like hard and fast rule, you are not getting back-to-backs.

I don't have an issue with it because we don't see it as often nowadays. But I feel like even just five years ago, we were seeing back-to-backs in the playoffs a little bit more often. So if you're a goaltender, you have to be able to do that, right? Like, you have to be, you know, mentally and physically prepared to play back-to-back games if the situation calls for it, even though we don't see it as often now. I don't think there's anything wrong with that in the regular season. I just don't know if this was it, right? Because you're playing, what, the 20,

29, 31st? You got a couple days off, but now you're going back to back the third and fourth. I just feel like it was a little bit much here. And I know they didn't have the most challenging outings against Ottawa and Buffalo before that. But I feel like the penguins are, such a strange team this year and there are some nights they just are popping offensively and that was it right like they were trailing four to one and i'm not saying you give grieves the hook before the third period absolutely not but what i'm i just look at it and i go i don't know if you go back to back after you've had someone play that kind of stretch right including a different set of back to backs i just think it was a little bit much there i don't have an issue though with goalies

getting them here there i think it's a different challenge to throw at a goaltender they should be able to be ready to play in any kind of situation like you can't have it that a goalie has zero experience playing back to backs at this level yep that's an excellent point listen i know i'm jumping around all over the place here but that's part of the beauty of when you're on so let me ask you about alexander venberg and the contract extension yesterday now a lot of people look at this and say a it's too much money b look at the production c he's 31 years old i look at it like this The San Jose Sharks, the longest time now, have, with their veterans, said, you know what? Well, hang on to them, trade deadline, move them for second round.

Second round pick. Third round pick. Whatever. We're recouping picks. This to me was a signal that in San Jose's mind, they're out of that business now. They're done. They're done just having players on the roster to sit there. They can move for picks at the deadline to try to stock the cupboards.

So regardless of whether it's Alexander Venberg or. I don't know, like Jamie Baker coming back to play with the San Jose Sharks, they are out of the We're Looking for Picks business. Is that how you saw this? I don't know if they're out of that business entirely, but I don't think it's a bad thing to say, this player's not going to be for sale and just settle it now because I thought last year at the deadline, maybe they went a little bit too far when they went with the Zetterlin trade. Like that was the one for me. I'm like, did you really need to do

that? Did you need to take that extra step here instead of having talent to go around your up and coming players and he's someone that's young enough to help now and in the future. But you look at it with like the Tyler to Foley contract too with them. I feel like they've done a very good job figuring out who are going to be these, this veteran presence, right? This stabilizing veteran presence who's going to be there through this process to help raise the children essentially and, you know, just help keep everything afloat. And they happen to be good players.

And Wenberg, is your prolific score? Absolutely not, right? This is a guy that sometimes overpasses. and, you know, it doesn't take the shot when he could. But I also look at it and go, he's someone who could absorb big minutes. He can play in tough situations. He plays center. You could throw him on the wing if you need them to.

But if you have, you know, an up-and-comer who isn't ready to play at center, you have that option. I think that's always a good thing because you never want to see a player just exposed just for the sake of exposing them if they're not ready. You need to have options. And he seems like just an overall good presence. So you can't do that with every veteran there. But with this one, why the hell not?

Right? Because centers are hard to find in the summer. it might not be easy to add players. I get the vibes in San Jose are great, but you never know. Some players want to go for a cup and you can't blame them. So why not keep what you have, what you know, works? I have no issue with this one. Yeah, no, I'm the same.

Okay, keeping it bouncing. What do you make of Matthew Schaefer against Maple Leafs on Saturday? And, again, like, I don't put too much stock in one very specific moment. But listen, Matthew Schaefer has put together already a really impressive resume so far this season. I'm not going to say that he should have been on. on Team Canada right out of the hot, but you will, based on half a season, we're going to put him on Team Canada? Yeah, absolutely.

Listen, I don't give a shit if he doesn't play a game. Put him as a seven or eight, but he should be there. Every single time someone goes, no, Schaefer can't go there because he doesn't play matchup minutes. Okay, bet, here's matchup minutes. And then it's, well, he's not playing well on him. Give him two games. Watch him cook. Every single challenge they have thrown at him, he's taken, and he's absolutely thrived.

Now imagine him on a team that's not the Islanders. Imagine him on a stack team Canada as a third-payer guy. I think that he also say he doesn't play and he's number seven, you probably have a more defensive option as a seven or eight. So why not have someone super dynamic on the other side of the coin? So if you lose someone who is one of your more dynamic guys, you have that option too. But I like it too is like this next wave of team Canada. It's not like you're just throwing him there to say, okay, we're going to usher in this next.

No, no, no, no. He's legitimately skilled enough and has proven that he belongs. now he also gets to practice with Sidney Crosby and get to see what Kim Carr does and get like a taste of Olympic action and experience so the next time around he could be the guy on the blue line which I mean he's probably going to be at this rate so he's been fantastic I think he's earned it

as we saw him on Saturday just turnstiling Morgan Riley for that overtime winner Tanna is out for Toronto Maple Leafs that's not going to be a that's not a couple of weeks like that might be it for the season It sounds like it will be. How do you see Toronto right now? There, a wreck.

This, I talk a lot about the Leafs. I watch a lot of Leafs. I don't want to watch the Leafs this year. I don't want to talk about the Leafs. They are so boring stylistically. They play a slower game. The roster doesn't do it for me. The top-end guys haven't been consistently strong enough.

And I know Matthews did have a good week. And now there's, you know, some injuries to you to navigate with Kneelander. but this team needs a lot of help, and it just feels like it's a top-down thing. I think that management has gone in the wrong direction. I think the coaching is the wrong direction. I think special teams are an issue, but I still think we're seeing roster holes that it's not surprising they're there. Because even when you had Mitch Marner on your team, you were still missing secondary

scoring, and it just felt like they went in the wrong direction. It's not surprising to see them fall the way. It's not surprising to see them fall, but the way that they've done it, how dramatic it's been this year. Like, to me, you got to start resetting for next season at this point, because you could go for it, but I look at this roster and go for what? Another round one or round two exit? Like, I just don't think this team is going to do anything even if they make the playoffs. Well, other than the drive, Mrs. Kennedy, how'd you enjoy Dallas? Speaking of big drops, there is none bigger than the Winnipeg Jets. Let me finish up our conversation

here on the Winnipeg Jets. It has happened, but not in a 32 team NHL universe where a team has won 32 games or won the president's trophy and then fall into last in the NHL. And here's what scares me about Winnipeg. This is a team that has a smaller building. This is a team that has a smaller market. Right now they have big ticket long term contracts on the books. The salary cap is going up and I don't think nor does anybody else think that the Winnipeg Jets are going to be able to keep up with the spending of the other teams that the new salary cap is going to allow. And the point that I was making on the show last week is if you're not prepared financially to be bad in the NHL for three to five years, maybe even longer, should you be in the NHL? Essentially, what I'm saying is if your business model is predicated on we are successful every year, that's a business model that doesn't confront reality.

How do you see the Winnipeg Jets right now? Damn, you say, I'm harsh. I mean, come on. That's as harsh as you can get. And it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, a little bit there. They're an interesting one because you look at them in October. And I think they were getting results that I don't want to say, listen, it's not easy

to win games at this level. So if you win the games, you've earned your wins. But you saw red flags develop, right? Because in the month of October, you look at their five-on-five numbers and the safe percentage was really good. Shocker. They have Connor Hallibuck. They were converting on a lot of their shots.

And to me, that's not sustainable. Their five-on-five numbers across the board were abysmal. Their offensive creation was not good. The defense wasn't good. But you go, okay, they don't have Lowry. They don't have Sandberg. Right. So then they lose Hellebuck.

And you go, this could be this make or break point of their season because now they're getting healthier. What can you do without Hellebuck there? Can you get it together that when he comes back, he comes back to a more functional team and it just hasn't happened. I think the roster construction is part of it, you know, I wasn't that high on Jonathan Taves when they brought him in because I looked at it realistically, and I didn't think he was going to be too C level. And I know that's harsh, and I know what he was in his peak, but he was removed for so long.

And it's a lot different coming back when you're Landisog to Taves. There's a gap in age there. Like, I'm sorry. It's just the reality of the situation. So it felt like it was asking him to carry already a shorthanded second line because they didn't have Eilers. So it puts more on Perfetti's plate. I don't think he's, you know, risen to the occasion enough. but I also don't think he's had enough support there.

So you just see the flaws developing. And then if Larry's not clicking at 100%, which when he returns, which hasn't been, you know, it's going to weaken the depth even more. So I just look at this team and I think that there's potential because you have Connor hellbook, because you have Kyle Connor, because you have Dylan Sandberg. Like you have some good players there, but they were too quiet last off season. They had holes, you know, when the season end, they lost players and they just didn't adequately replace them and everyone around them's loading up.

so it's not an easy situation because you're going to load up to what we used to Colorado or Dallas, but like they should go for it. They're a team that just has not been aggressive enough when they should have been, right? Like that was their window, go for it the last few years. And it just felt like they took it way too quietly.

And now they're here with these huge contracts. And it's just, it's not a good situation because it just feels like I've run around them is that much better right now. Listen, there's a whole lot of same from last year with the Winnipeg Jets. But same from last year was we were watching the Winnipeg Jets and they'd be down like, three goals in the second period, and we'd say, they're going to come back, and they're going

to win, and they would. And that's what made, like, watching the Winnipeg Jets last year so compelling. Oh, they're down two pucks in the third period. Don't worry, watch, they're going to come back. And they would. It was like, it was incredible to watch, and they did it on a consistent basis. This year, complete opposite, which is why the one person I worry about most there is Scott Arniel. And I know it's not Winnipeg's MO to do it.

But, like, I don't know, Shana, how long can you wait? It's the NHL's MO to do. It doesn't matter, right? Like, the average 10 years around two years, I think, is the average going into the season and we've seen it. GMs, their first move is always get rid of the coach instead of facing what the actual issue is. Do I think Arneal's the problem? Not necessarily because I think last year, even though there were signs of, like, this might

not be sustainable and it's because of Connor Hellbuck in the regular season. Their defensive structure was that good last year. Like Morrissey and Sandberg obviously led the way. and so did adam laurie up front but like as a whole this was a better defensive group than they've had in years past but it just feels like if you're going to play that you know lower vent style you need the offense to really pop and then it gets weaker as a result of subtractions and you don't do anything for it right like even if you're saying okay jonathan taves the answer at two c what did you do to make this team better offensively than they were last year because the offense

straight up in the playoffs when they needed it and they couldn't get past the stars who couldn't score a five on five either. So I don't think Arneill is the problem there. I think it's the roster first, but will I be surprised if the coach goes? No, because that's literally how it goes it's the way it goes. Listen on that, we'll wrap. Thank you as always. Been too long. We've got to do it against you. Any new, by the way, any pickle updates, any new pickle flavors you've found in either salt or chips or both? No. I was looking, there's pickle ramen, like a cup of noodles that's like pickle flavored and I've searched like three stores for it and I've had no luck but do I always check yes like I walk around food stores and I'm like what is the

weirdest shit I can find that I can try but I wonder if Dill is more of a summer thing that's kind of what I think it is right now it's become it's become summer we'll have to wait we'll have to wait for the the summer extravaganzas here to get our pickle updates um you're the best we'll check back soon you be good thanks for having me There she is. The great Shannon Goldman from the Too Many Men podcast and also on the athletic as well. Dan McKenzie is going to pop by in about five or six minutes time.

Zach, I want to do your segment here. So I want to spend some time talking to Dan about the passing of Dave Branch. The sheet is powered by Fandual. Play your game with Fandual. It's the NHL season, and Fandual is your home for all the action on the ice. From Blue Line to Bet Slip,

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please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. outdo yourself young man Okay This one I couldn't fit on a graphic Because it's long But I'm gonna same game parlay something Okay That's really really really dumb

Which is saying something Given what we've done here, okay? You can't even say it yourself I don't like my bread colds But my radish I like that good Cool. Paneran.

Oh, no, no. Darren radish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. DeNeil Butte. Cheeks. Will Coley. Yes. I don't like my bread,

Panarin. Yeah. Cold. Yeah. But. Yeah. My radish. I like it cool.

Will Coolly. So you get the four. The four. All to score in this game. I figured we might as well start to week off with the just. It's like just an all-time long shot. $5 pays $1,365 today. Wow.

That, congratulations. That is impressive. I'm curious to hear back from Fanduel, what they think of this unique offering from you today. One of these is going to hit, man. And you're going to be a genius. And we're not going to see you for two weeks. But one of these is going to pop for you.

We had one come through it. It wasn't mine. So that was from John Banker in the chat. Yeah, that was good. But we've come close a couple of times, including the Never Leave Me Blue Susie Q. That one was close, but we need to see more get through the upgrades. Hey, did you have, as we're going to stand by here for the president of the CHL, Dan McKenzie, talking about the passing of Dave Branch, what did you make of the suspensions on the weekend?

Logan Stanley, the one game for the sucker punch, although I kind of quibble with sucker punch in that situation on Brady Kachuk. But John Beecher, make no mistake about it. Like, that was a sucker punch on Michael McKee. Karen, who was being held. Joe Mahon was the other linesman there. And I know he kind of gets blocked and Beecher gets a clean shot in on McCarran. I'm not trying to absolve John Beecher whatsoever in this situation. Like McCarran and Beecher is starting to go after it.

And then Travis Garrelitz, who's the other official there, totally wraps up McCarran. And if you have a look at number eight. Orden's right, 89, linesman, 89. That's Joe Mahon. Played junior hockey with the Pull and Winterhawks. A big, strong linesman, but he doesn't grab a hold of John Beecher. All I'm saying is Beecher's got to be more responsible than that.

Like, it's a stupid play. But secondly, it's one that I'm sure that Joe Mahon probably wants to have back, probably could have done maybe a better job trying to wrap up Beecher so he couldn't get that shot in. Kevin Collins was an official in the NHL linesmen who a lot of the players really didn't like because when there was a fight going on, you've seen this a million times. The linesmen will collaborate on when they go in because they both have to go in at the same time. Because there's nothing worse than an official grabbing one and leaving the other guy with his arms free to throw.

And Collins, a lot of the players used to feel was always jumping the gun and getting in on that one. Again, not absolving Beecher whatsoever. I just wonder if in that situation, the official could have been more proactive trying to wrap up John Beecher and we wouldn't have had the situation at all. Yeah, I would agree with you there. I think if you call or not call,

if you suspend one, you kind of got to do both because they just happen to arise at the same time. Not the same severity, but I think that it's just kind of an uncomfortable situation, which I know that NHLD ops is not going to be looking at it, being like, well, what makes us comfortable or uncomfortable coming out of this? But you get the Stanley one and the Beecher at the same time. It just makes it, it makes it easier to, like, digest as a fan to be like, well, you got both.

Okay. And then we can take it. So it's fine. I'm not absolving John Beecher of doing that. I'm not. All I'm saying is, like, if you're, you know, if you're Stephen Walker, head of the NHL officials, you're probably saying, like, you've got to get in there. You got to get in there.

Again, like, it's not that official's fault, but. still one guy's getting wrapped up the other needs to get wrapped up too i'm going to say something that might be controversial or piss off some sense fans so i'm ready for this but uh the logan stanley one as well i'm with you i'm not absolving logan stanley uh of any wrongdoing in the incident with him and brady kichick but what i will say is this is not a surprising outcome of this situation um i love both kichuk brothers i would die to have to have the Kachuk brothers play on my team that said they know

what they're doing they know what they're getting into and baiting somebody in and trying to draw this out and being doing the whole uh oh what why how could you do that to me act I get it it's effective I've got no problem with that but every now and then I feel

like there's going to be somebody pop up who just says fuck it I'm going to swing and protect yourself Logan Stanley did that protect yourself I saw saw it coming yeah that one again like it's a suspension 100% going away it's it's a sucker punch but you're engaged with brady kachuk what do you think's going to happen you know the old saying i'd i'd rather be uh you know a judge by 12 than carried by six like this is this is you know

i know i know logan stanley's tough on his own and probably could have you know squared up but again it's it's brady kichick chuck that you're in there with and we've seen him we've seen him do that before. So I look at that situation and say, again, A, that is a suspension. That was the right call by the Department of Player Safety. Having said that, I'm not surprised that that's what the outcome was. It's funny. I was doing the Hockey Lifeers podcast with Bruce Boudreau this morning.

And we were talking about that situation specifically. And he was saying the same thing. It's like, you know who you're in there with. like Logan Stanley's not dumb and the other thing is too I don't think that the Kachucks do anything by accident

I don't think the Kachucks do anything frivolously like this family knows what they're doing this family has lived it eaten it breathe it on the ice for decades in the NHL

Brady Kachuk knows exactly what he's doing in that situation. Does he know that he's going to eat one because of it? Yeah, maybe not, but he knows at that time, like he's probably luring Logan Stanley into something here. And again, if you're Logan Stanley, you're probably saying to yourself,

as you're along the boards, and you're engaged with Brady Kachuk. Holy smokes, this is Brady Kachuk I'm engaged in. There's a good chance that this might end up in a fight, and if I'm going to fight Brady Kachuk, since he is such a beast, I want to land the first punch. I want to get in there first.

I don't want to wait and see what happens. This is spur of the moment, and this guy's super tough, and I want to get the first shot in before anything else happens. We're standing by, I'm trying to locate Dan McKenzie right now, the president of the CHL.

I just want to offer a couple of words here, just in case Dan isn't able to join us. For those of you who don't know who Dave Branch was, Dave Branch was the OHL Commissioner going back to 1979. For many, he's the only commissioner that the Ontario Hockey League ever had. There he is with Joe Corto and Ron Robeson. I don't remember an OHL until Brian Crawford took over that didn't have Dave Branch in it. and Dave Branch as part of it. He took the Ontario Hockey League to great heights and established franchises with solid ownerships

and academic scholarships for players. That's his last one with Saginaw winning the Memorial Cup. From my point of view, Dave was someone that I talked to on a pretty regular basis. He would always answer calls, and if he couldn't, he would always call you back. He always had an answer and an explanation for you. Junior hockey was obviously a love and a passion for him. He was someone that was in it for the long haul

and was always always had sort of the players at the front of his mind. Even though at the same time, he did an incredible job bringing in bringing in very sophisticated and financially stable ownership into the Ontario Hockey League. At the forefront of his mind, and there is what Young Tyler say again, he always had the players' interests, whether it was mental health, whether it was part of his legacy positions towards the end of his career with curbing violence in junior hockey. That was always what Dave was in it for. As the president of the Canadian Hockey League, he helped take the Memorial Cup tournament to New Heights.

Under a lot of this leadership, we saw the expansion of the junior hockey leagues into the United States. And this is a tremendous loss. Even Dave hadn't been the commissioner of the OHL. Now that's Brian Crawford. Even though it hasn't been the president of the CHL, that is, of course, Dan McKenzie. the presence of Dave Branch will always loom large over all three Canadian hockey leagues and specifically the Ontario Hockey League.

He was also a coach in the Whitby Minor Hockey Association and that was one of his pet passions as well. It wasn't just the OHL. But I'll tell you what, like, one of the cool things that Dave was able to do was the OHL Cup. And for those who don't know, the OHL Cup invitational tournament for the top teams across U-16 minor midget, call it whatever you want, to compete for a trophy at the end of the seasons, to compete for the OHL Cup trophy because that's essentially where, you know, top teams from all around Ontario and

the United States as well, that's where all the players were coming from to join the OHL. That is hands down, full stop, one of my favorite. tournaments to watch and you can make the argument that at that level the u-16 and then in through junior hockey that's um that's probably the place where there's still some innocence about hockey where it's still it's not a job yet it's right before it becomes a job for players but at that point it's it's it's still not it's still not a job at that point it's still fun and i think that Now, I'll end on this, and a lot of this was because of Dave Branch, and he brought a lot of players back into the league and a lot more players, I think.

You know, now that Zach Hyman has bought a team with his family in Brantford, I think we'll start to see more. I think a lot of, oh, hang on, I think we have, Dan. I think we'll see, hang on. I think we'll start to see more, and I think that's why a lot of NHL players have gone back to own junior hockey franchises. and we expect to see more of them as well. Zach, do we have Dan McKenzie standing by?

I know it's kind of like a last minute sort of scramble to get the CHL president on board. Okay, excellent. Let's join with Dan now. He is the president of the Canadian Hockey League on a very sad day around junior hockey in Canada. Dan McKenzie joins me now. Dan, first of all, thanks for joining me. I know it's a scrambling day for everybody. As everyone mourns the passing of Dave Branch at the age of 77,

Dave was someone to me that kind of like you as well every time I call there'd be an answer or a follow-up phone call he was always open and loved talking about junior hockey and more than anything else he loved talking about the kids

I want to get to that in a couple of seconds but your thoughts initially on the passing of Dave Branch well Jeff thanks for reached out yeah it is it is definitely a sad day and for all of us at the CHL and in the hockey world we lost a legend

today he you know he was the CHL would not be where it is today without David Branches. Don't doubt about that. And you talked about the kids. And, you know, so I started in 2019, had the opportunity to really learn under David for the first couple of years. As you know, I didn't come from the hockey world. And I would say the one thing that was just a constant discussion point, whenever we would talk about things,

his first question was always, what about the kids, how's this is going to affect the player? And whether we were talking about issues that were on ice, that were off ice, that was always, always, always top of mind. And I think that'll be probably as great as legacy. You know, one of the things that I always admired, and I always appreciated me, and I'm the same way with you. And I have like a million goofy ideas for things at all times.

And he would always entertain all of them. You know, I can't tell you how many times, like, here's what you got to do with the Memorial Cup. Here's what you got to do with Jay Ross Robertson. And he was like, he would always give you time. And then he would sort of always give you like the bigger picture to you. Like, that's what I always admired about Dave. Every conversation I had with him,

there would be the issue and the Dave would like take it full scope and go but here's where what you also need to consider and I always and I think part of that was because he had the dual portfolio he was a commissioner of the OHL but also the president of the CHL and he wore those hats and it kind was a juggling act sometimes but Dave was always great at the big picture hey Dan like always like every conversation yes but here's the big picture he was great at that yeah and I think it's funny, you know, in this world of, you and I live in the world of social media and, you know, there's hot takes on everything and people are responding right away. And Dave was the master of, hey, let's be cautious. Let's look at the big picture. Let's, you know, identify how, you know,

this decision's going to affect that decision or that relationship or, you know, the world we live in, especially at the CHL level, it's not, it's not sometimes a simple. as it seems, there's implications across a variety of, again, relationships, people, organizations. And so Dave was the master at sort of stepping back and, you know, measuring his words because they carried a ton of weight coming from someone like him. So I think that's one of the things I'll take away from, you know, from getting the opportunity to watch him work. You know, as you all know, junior hockey is my first love and he's really the only commissioner of the OHL that I really ever knew until he stepped away and Brian Crawford took over.

And I saw, I think back to like, you know, the early days of going to watch the Marlboro at Maple Leaf Gardens in the afternoon and Bruce Dowie was my hero. And I look at, you know, where junior hockey is now. And I think about things like academic scholarships. And I think about work around mental health. And I think about all the different things that Dave initiated. A lot of the legacy positions towards the end of his tenure around, you know, reduction in on ice violence and specifically fighting.

Like when you look around and think about the legacy of Dave Branch, like what are the touch points for you? Because those are some of the ones for me. Yeah, and I think you touched on a couple of the really important ones. I think the scholarship for the OHL scholarship program and ultimately the CHL scholarship program across all three leagues, I think is one that David really, really believed in and, you know, talked a lot about, you know, of course, like we like to talk about, you know,

I'm down in Minnesota, like the guys on the ice who were on the ice last night from the CHL and the best of the best, but, you know, less than 5% of players who play in the CHL make a career in the NHL. And Dave was really concerned about the other 95%. So the, and you'd see it when you'd walk around an arena with them. Like he, you could not walk around an arena with him in five minutes. Like, he would get stopped, Mr. Branch, Mr. Branch. And you talk to me, said, oh, yeah, you know, I, you know, that's such and such as, you know, a father who he played in our league back in 2005 and now so-and-so, now he's coaching in Wickby or whatever.

You know what I mean? Like, he just had, he had so many relationships and it wasn't just about the elite guys. And I think that's where, you know, when I think about the legacy and I think about, again, a scholarship program, when I think about some of the off-ice programs, I chatted. today with one of our owners, the owner in Saginaw, Craig Goslin, who was sort of on the ground when the Talk Today program got off the ground, you know, on the heels of a really tragic situation down there a few years ago, Terry Trafford. And he was just sort of reminiscing about how Dave, you know, Dave's humanity really came out during that week when he was down there in Saginaw. You know, when I think of Dave, you know, we think about, you know, the

hockey guy and the, you know, the big picture legacy things. But at the end of the day, I mean, he was, he was just a good man, you know. He was a good man. And you know where I really saw it. I mean, and I understand from a player's point of view and their parents and the agents, you know, the issue of exceptional status. And we see it in all three leagues. And I remember every time that I would talk to Dave about like, oh, how come this guy

didn't get in and this guy like, what's wrong with, you know, Tag Bertuzzi and Graham Clark and Jack Hughes and no one powered all this like stuff. It's like, and he, Dave. would always say, well, there's the player and there's the person, and we have to be sensitive to the person, like playing junior hockey, like mentally you have and you have to have a certain level of maturity, too, that goes into it. I know the knee jerk might just be, get all the best kids in the league no matter what, but Dave would always be sensitive to this might be good for us, but long term, is this good for that player? That always

stuck with me, Dan. Always stuck with me. Well, and he really was, I think, a champion of making sure that that exceptional player status included not just the hockey. I mean, that was an important part of it. I mean, it's funny. I'm down here at the juniors, and I was talking to somebody today when we got the news about Dave's passing, and you sort of forget when you see it now and you see how big this tournament is. But, you know, and this person reminded me that in the beginning, the World Junior Tournament had a, team from the CHL that would represent the C that would represent Canada at the world

juniors and that it wasn't until it would have been Dave Branch, Gilles-Corto and I don't know if it was Ron Robinson or maybe Ed Cheneuve, but they had to go back and they had to convince the owners of their junior hockey teams to let their best players and their coaches and training staff go for a month. I mean, think how hard that would be. Release your best players. Release your best players. For the good of the game, for the good of their development, you know?

I mean, you look back now and you think, oh, yeah, it's always been this way. But it took those kinds of decisions and that kind of foresight. And I can tell you, those kinds of decisions are not easy to move some of those rooms. And Dave was a master of that, being able to do that. And, you know, that's just one example. You could talk about, you know, 10 different things that are part of our game now that we just take for granted that when you look back and you look at the origins of it, it would have been tough. And you needed strong visionary leadership to get some of these things across the finish line. And guys like Dave, you know, Jeal Ron, Bob Nicholson, like some of these folks, you know, they did yeoman's work on some of these issues.

And we take them for granted now. 177 would have been the first one. The junior tournament was, they did have a U-20 before that, but IHF didn't sanction for all of our viewers, what Dan is talking about. The WIHF didn't sanction

until 1977 and Canadian junior hockey would send the Memorial Cup champion. So the first one was the St. Catherine's Fin Cups, and it was John Anderson and Dale McCourt. It's funny. I just had Don Waddell on the program, GM of the Blue Jackets, and he played for USA in 1977.

And they still glow about this. was the first tournament in Czechoslovakia. I am curious, as I'll let you go on this one, because I know you have a really busy day here in games to get to. What are the conversations been around the world juniors today with the news of the passing of Dave Branch? Is there any of that you can share how people are talking about them? Any stories that you can share about Dave?

Any sort of common themes? Yeah, I've had a bunch today. You know, I think that just a lot of respect. you know like a lot of respect for for the tenure the legacy these jobs aren't easy and a guy like dave who was who was so successful for so long just you know a real a real you know pro would be the way to put it and i think lots of respect and i think um when you talk to and then the stories and you know Dave at heart was a hockey man and so i i had it i was actually chatting with uh with jill corto earlier um i chat with bob nicholson and you know um you know

some of the guys who he was with sort of coming through. And, you know, some of the stories are just legendary. And I remember when we were up in, so in terms of the retirements of our commissioner, Jill went first and then Ron and then Dave. And so I remember us being up at a high, one of our board meetings and is in Quebec City. And we were celebrating Jill's tenure with the CHL. And after the dinner, we were all sort of sitting around a table. And, you know, those sitting,

sitting around listening to, you know, those three guys, Bruce Hamilton, Brent Sutter, you know, it was just wild hearing the stories and that, you know, and Dave, you can see the joy in Dave's face. It was like he was in his element that night sitting at a table, talking hockey, you know, and it wasn't all about the, it wasn't all about the past. It was, it was, it was, it was about, you know, it was just, it was a lot of it was about the future too. Like he was always thinking about the next, you know, the next thing and how, how, how, what, what its impact on junior hockey was going to be, what its impact on the player was going to be, like, it was, it was pretty neat to see.

I believe it. We've lost a great person. Dan, thanks so much for stopping by. I know you're busy. Thanks for taking time out for my program today. Really appreciate it. You got it. Thanks, Jeff.

There is. Dan McKenzie is the president of the Canadian Hockey League position, formerly held by the now late, Dave Branch, who passed away Sunday evening at the age of 77. Okay. Thanks for hanging out. I know we went a little bit overtime today, but I wanted to make sure we had a chance to talk about Dave Branch. Someone who I really enjoyed talking to and really enjoyed dealing with, we never, like, when you do this job, you never always see eye to eye with someone in Dave's position. There were plenty of times when Dave was annoyed with me and there were plenty of times where, you know, Dave didn't do things that I necessarily thought was, was great. but at the basis of everything was always a mutual respect. And I spent way more days, you know, having, you know, great times and great conversations with Dave Branch than otherwise.

He was a visionary. He was a pioneer in a lot of ways. He was a really smart person who had hockey's best interests at heart and at mind at all times. The game got poor when he exited. His titles and the game is poor now that he is no longer with us, Dave Branch, passing away at the age of 77. Thanks to Dan McKenzie for stopping by to share some of his thoughts and his perspective on the career of Dave Branch. Thanks to Shannon Goldman from The Athletic and the Too Many Men podcast.

And also thanks to Matt Sundin, who we recorded yesterday for stopping by the show today. We're back tomorrow, 1 o'clock Eastern with Greg Wischinsky from ESPN and ESPN.com. in the meantime. Enjoy, if you're watching the juniors, Canada face off against Finland for the bronze and Czechia taking on Sweden. That's the new Canada-US matchup for the gold medal. I'll talk to you tomorrow. I said 16 hours last night every day this week, every day this month. I can't get out my head, lost all ambitious day-to-day, because I can't call it all right. I went to the dark man

You tried to give me a little medicine I'm like now and that's fine I'm not against those methods but new It's me and myself And how this is going to be fixing my mind I didn't want to break it I turned on the music I do want to back you

I turned on the music Wixing up and about it's sometimes losing I've been on the days that we're wrong