The Sheet with Jeff Marek - On the Sheet: Jonas Siegel

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

Jeff Marek is joined by Jonas Siegel of The Athletic to break down Mitch Marner’s move to Vegas, reflecting on his time in Toronto, what ultimately went wrong, and what the Maple Leafs need to do now to fill the void. They dig into the pressure on GM Brad Treliving, the roster gaps that need filling, and what options are still on the table this offseason.Shout out to our sponsors!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼Budweiser: https://www.budweiser.ca/ca_en👍🏼Simply Spiked: https://www.simplyspiked.ca/en-CAReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of The Sheet is sponsored by the OCS Summer Pre-Roll Sale. Sometimes when you roll your own joint, things can turn out a little differently than what you expected. Maybe it's a little too loose, maybe it's a little too flimsy. There's a million ways to roll a joint wrong, but there's one roll that's always perfect. The Pre-Roll. Shop the Summer Pre-Roll and Infused Pre--roll sale today at OCS.ca and participating retailers. We bring on Jonas Siegel to talk about Mitch Marner and what is next for the Toronto Maple Leafs and I suppose maybe what's next for the Vegas Golden Knights as well.

First of all, Jonas, thanks so much as always for stopping by. Really appreciate it. Before we get to hockey, we were just talking about things that we're terrified by. And I used to have a thing about snakes until Strabo dropped this like 15 foot python into my lap one day. And ever since then I've loved snakes, no problem. Do you have like a snake in your life? Something that you're just like,

ugh, I can't do it, I have to be away. Maybe it's snakes, maybe it's rodents, maybe it's wasps. I don't know. Do you have something like that in your life, Jonas? Not really. Like there's nothing that I really confront in like my day-to-day life that ever threatens me like that. I remember like, remember Indiana Jones, the snake.

Of course. Snakes, like that forever like is seared in my mind with snakes, but like when do I see a snake in downtown Toronto? Like it never happens. Right. So sharks you'd be fine with too. Like I remember I was God, when I was like 15 years old, I was a family vacation in Florida and a hammerhead grabbed a girl just below the knee and flung her back and tore the bottom of her leg off. And the beach was closed for the whole time that we were

there. And a lot of people sort of got, you know, shark, shark fears after that, I would imagine. Ever been scared of sharks irrationally, Jonas? San Jose or otherwise? Really? Like, you know, I don't know why I keep bringing up movies, but you know when in Jaws, when there's the attack and then like everybody goes back to the beach.

And I always think like, would I go into the water if there was just a shark attack and the answer is Probably not but like maybe like two weeks later like what are the odds? I don't know It's like you know what it's kind of like it's kind of like um I'm gonna try to drag this drag this back to hockey our Richard Zednick after he got the skate slash Yeah, I'll leave throat right so right away He puts on the neck guard

and then takes it off a little while later. And do you remember what he said about it? No. It's the most hockey thing ever. He goes, what are the odds it's gonna happen twice? I'm like, dude. I mean, it's fair, right? Like you get struck by lightning once.

Do you not go outside in a thunderstorm? I'm probably not. Odds are fine. I'll probably be okay. Alright, so we dragged this thing back to hockey from Snakes and Sharks. How did you see yesterday with Marner in Vegas? The jersey, the office celebration, the press conference, all of it. Did you have any immediate takeaways from the whole thing?

And by the way, your piece on where did it go wrong with Marner in Toronto is excellent at the athletic. I encourage everyone to have a peek at this one. But what were your takeaways from yesterday seeing seeing Marner in Vegas? I mean, I don't want to say surreal because like it doesn't really impact me anyway or another, but it was weird to see him in a jersey that wasn't the Leafs. And it was strange to see him in a 93 when like the reason he is wearing 93 is because his dad's favorite player was Doug Gilmore.

And like, it just, it just brought back like the whole last 10 years and the way things went and like how it really shouldn't have come to this point. And like, good for him. Like he looked happy. It's going to be a different experience for him entirely playing there. Every player I've talked to who played in Vegas raves about the experience. It's not under the fishbowl like it is here in Toronto.

But it just reminded me of all the different points from his tenure in Toronto where it didn't go the way it should have. And like there's so many that kind of flashed through my mind, but like he looked happy. He looked like at peace and like, I really hadn't seen him like that in Toronto for quite a while.

You know, I have, who were we talking to? Was I talking to on the show yesterday? I would have been Colby Cohen who said, you know, maybe the big winner here with Mara going to Vegas is gonna turn into Jack Eichel. You know, I've always said that, you know, Zach Hyman is probably the luckiest person. Like if you believe in karma, he must've like rescued a family out of a burning house

in a previous life because he came back in this one and has been a winger for Austin Matthews and then Conor McDavid. Well, here's Mitch Marner who goes from Austin Matthews to Jack Eichel, who may end up being the big winner and the big beneficiary out of all of it. And oh yeah, he's going into a contract year. Do you ever thought of like two sulky candidates here?

I mean, we see two sulky candidates in Florida, but you know, two sulky candidates now between Eichel and Marner both playing on the same team. Yeah. And you didn't even mention like Marner starts his career and he's playing, I guess you got to go back like way. He starts his career, he's playing I guess you got to go back like way He starts his career. He's playing with Tyler Bozak But then that first year when John Tavares signs in Toronto, he's playing with Tavares So he goes Tavares Matthews and then Eichel. I wonder like I think it's obviously gonna be a good fit

I wonder what it looks like and I wonder what impact it has on Eichel Obviously he was kind of hanging around the fringes of the Hart Trophy conversation last year and now you mentioned the contract like what kind of impact does it have but I honestly I can't really think of a way it doesn't fit for Vegas with Marner. He does everything like he's your first line right winger he's gonna be on your first unit penalty kill like they can use I don't know like how will they use Mark Stone now that they have Mitch Marner can they like what impact does that have? And then obviously I've thought about it from like a leaf lens, like what impact conversely does it have on Austin Matthews

that he's not playing with Mitch Marner? And like, you wonder what the ripple effect of that is. And then like you think back, there was a time in Toronto where they didn't even play together and Matthews scored 40 goals as a a rookie not playing with Marner. So like I think he'll be fine. But like you mentioned the Selkie Trophy stuff, like two Selkie Trophy candidates on the same line. Now it's just in Vegas and not in Toronto. You know, and that it's interesting to you. I don't know if you've ever sort of thought about this one before, but I've always wondered about which is the most important trophy not to trade. Like if you have a Selkie winner and a Norris winner and maybe even a Hart winner, right?

Which is the one that you wouldn't want to trade? I know Selkie doesn't feel as important to Hart as the Hart trophy, but look at the Florida Panthers. Look what just happened with the Florida Panthers. And no one there is winning the Hart trophy, but how many guys, and we think of Reinhart and Barkov specifically, uh, they're always in the conversation for the, for the Selke trophy. You know, I always look at the Detroit Redwings with Datserke and Zetterberg

and say, how could Mike Babcock ever lose a line matchup when two of your best offensive players are your two best defensive players at the same time? Like, and now all of a sudden the Vegas Golden Knights have two Selkie trophy candidates Marner more prominent But still you know Jack Eichel is in that conversation, too I don't know if you ever thought about what which trophy player would you would you would you would you make sure you don't trade? I think you can make a strong case for the Selkie I think it's right up there like it's it's especially obviously for a forward like it's heart. It's Art Ross Rocket and then maybe Salchie is that like the order that you put it in but it's funny like you mentioned that because like I

Was thinking like the Leafs lose Marner. That's like your I don't know if you want to call them their first their best offensive Play their second best the third best but then like conversely What is the impact on your goals against when you take away your best defensive winger, maybe your best defensive player, your second or your third, whatever he is. And then, and then you look like, look ahead to Vegas and like Vegas, obviously a top defensive team already. What impact does that have?

Not just on their offense, but defensively as well. Uh, so John in the chat submits Marner and Matthews were selkie candidates. Do you have to kill penalties to be a selkie candidate in your world? I think I used to factor that in when I did voting. And then there was that, was it two years ago? Matthews was unbelievable defensively. And I think he like, had like a bit penalty killing role at that point. It was kind of like showy. That was like, you know, we'll do it here. And then like, we won't do it at all for a couple of games.

And we'll do it again. I don't know. Like I, I, I'm trying not to have as many rules on that stuff. I don't know. I think, I think I'm trying not to live by any code. I'm just fast and loose. It's 1967 all over again. Who cares? That's like, that's one of the trophies that is like the hardest to research and like, decide on. Like the easiest one by far is the Lady Bing because I honestly don't care so much about it. And it's, I don't know. That one I think, the Lady Bing needs to be redefined. And I think that officials should vote on it

because they're the ones that are on the ice and they're the ones that actually know who's a gentlemanly player and who's not. Like we may look at, you know, pick a player who's always. Kopitar. Okay, there you go, Kopitar. So Anjay Kopitar and the Lady Bing, I don't know, does he like spit on people's skates

at the draw? I don't know, but officials do. How does he treat everyone else on the ice? I don't know, but the officials do. Like to me, that's one the officials need to vote on. Why do we have that award still? History? Can we not do better?

History? I don't know. History, that's why. Yeah, of course you'd stay out of course. It's the weight of history, that's it, that's all it is. Does anyone, like to your earlier point, does anyone get really excited, hey Jeff, you won the Lady Bang, congrats. Listen, Alexander McGilley, who's going to the Hockey Hall of Fame, remember when he refused to fly back to North America to accept it? Like even the players are like, okay, cool. That's why I think that one, if you're gonna keep it, I think needs to be redefined. We're getting off track here, but no, no, no, it's fine. And to your point about the selkie, I'm still back and forth on is it the best two-way forward or is it the best defensive forward? You know what I mean? Because it seems like they're had there all of a sudden now And for the past however many years even though the whole thing was was was created for Bob Ganey Who would do who would like almost like as a rule not getting points now there has to be have to you know Put up like at least 50 points

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the sheet for 20% off your first purchase. That's bombas.ca slash the sheet and use the sheet at checkout. Next for the Toronto Maple Leafs here. You know, we've seen a lot of teams, a lot of Canadian teams outside of Montreal who did add and I think added significantly. Just kind of locked down what they have, right? Like we saw the Vancouver Canucks locked down

as much as what they have. So Besser comes back, Demko comes back, Demko is a huge ticket. Calgary basically just stood pat there, they're redeveloping their team right now. And the Toronto Maple Leafs, we still haven't seen them add anything. They locked down Tavares on a team-friendly deal. Matthew Nyes, even though Brad True Living himself mused about an offer sheet, he comes back. But it's not as if they're adding anything of significance. What do you think is next for Toronto?

Well, he said it himself, like they want a top six forward and I don't know if that's a winger or a center. Center is obviously going to be harder for them to find, but they need to replace. I almost want to put replace in like quotations because like they're not Replacing Marner like there isn't Marner out there Even in a trade like they're not getting someone who does so many different things for them And like that's not to say like they it was it's the worst thing that you know this ended Between the Leafs and Marner because it really did feel like it was time But they need someone to plug into their top six because you look at the players that they have right now, the only

ones that I can say like a hundred percent for sure are going to be in their top six are Nice, Matthews, Nylander. Everything else is kind of dependent on what else they can get. The tricky thing for them is like how many teams are wanting to give you one of their top six forwards, whether it's a center or a winger. And then it's like, okay, we do, but what are you giving us? And then it's like, well, we have this, this and this. And it's like, well, that's not super valuable to us. And so the Leafs are challenged not just by what's the market, how many players out there fit their need, but then what are they going to give up to entice that team? You look on their defense, could they part with Brandon Carlo?

Sure. That might make some sense if they can then replace him somehow in free agency or decide to replace him internally somehow. I don't know what that gets you. They need to find a way to add someone who can help them replace Marner because that's a lot of goals, number one, he had a hand in like 38% of their goals last season but then it's like the defensive impact what is that gonna be on them so like they need to find a way to I don't know like they're in a really tough spot honestly like I

don't know how they're gonna be able to figure this out that's why if I'm if I'm Easton Cowan or Ben Danford I'm not having any comfortable sleeps until I'm Easton Cowan or Ben Danford, I'm not having any comfortable sleeps until I'm in the lineup. Until I actually have the jersey on. Yeah, don't buy property. Don't buy a house. If I'm those two guys, I'm just like, I'm a Maple Leaf for now. All right. And even those guys, like that's the difficult thing for them. Even Cowan is their best prospect. How good of a prospect is he? Is he a top 30 prospect?

Maybe. I'm not a prospect expert. Is he a top 40 prospect? Even that is difficult, and obviously they don't have any picks. That's where the ripple effect of every trade, every transaction to me is so fascinating. If you could go back for the Leafs and you could go back to the front office you know, do you really want to make that Scott Lawton trade at the deadline? Like, or would you like to have that one back? Because like if you have that first round pick, like that's not changing your world, but suddenly you have a first round pick and you can throw that

into a trade package. That's a little easier than what they have right now. Um, last one for you here. Actually, I may have one more. Um. What I've found is, and a lot of people have made this observation, this isn't just me, the Toronto Maple Leafs, even though we all know this is a copycat league and we've seen it time and time again, but they always, when it would be the own Tampa that would dispatch them, they would try to do things to out Tampa Tampa.

Ditto for the Boston Bruins. Do you think that what the Florida Panthers did to them in the playoffs is going to lead them into trying to out Panther the Florida Panthers when everybody knows like, you're not going to out Panther them. Like you can't like it's, it's impossible. I've always made the point that no, you should run the other direction. There's more than one way to win the Stanley Cup here, but everybody assumes that whatever is successful, we have to outdo that team at being that team, which

you're just chasing your tail when you end up doing it. Can you see the Maple Leafs going that direction and saying like, you know what, we need to get like a bunch of like nasty starly guys. I don't care if they can't skate. I am a hundred percent in lockstep with you. The problem for them is this has already happened. Like this is go back to last summer, go back to Craig Barube. This was what they had in mind. They wanted to become like, I know from talking to people with the team, they wanted to become like the Panthers. They saw how the Panthers like change the way that they play. And they said, we want to do the same thing. Like we want to be

better defensively. And maybe that means we don't score as many goals, but in the playoffs, it's actually going to be better for the team. It's already happening. And I agree with you. And I feel like they've lost what they used to be and what they used to have as an advantage. Now you could say that didn't work in the playoffs before, the skill, the speed, but it feels like in chasing Florida, they've lost what made them special. And obviously, Marner is part of that. He is part of that skill thing. And now it's like you look at their lineup and it's like, how many guys really scare you offensively? It's the obvious candidates, but it's not the same. And you're right, you're not going to be Florida.

Unless you're going to make 10 awesome transactions in a row, pretty tough. And that's why I don't really love the copycat thing in the NHL, because it almost feels counterintuitive to me. But you know what the thing about it is though, Jonas? You can just see so many people around the NHL, managers, coaches, that just love the way the Panthers play. Right? Like there's like a whole lot of- It's so hockey.

It's completely hockey. It's old school style mixed in with like, you know, Sonny made us, you know, analytics and understanding of roster construction. Like you can understand the charm because just to your eyeballs, you're like, this is an old school rough and tumble team, but underlying all of it is one of the more brilliant analytic minds in the entire NHL.

It's kind of a team that services both the analytics crowd and the eyeball crowd. Yeah, and like you look at like the acquisitions that they made and it's like that was a good move, that was a good move, that was good move. How do they do that? Like even like someone like on the margins like Dmitry Kulakov. He played great! He played great! And then they signed him to this, I think he's on like a million dollar cap in the multi-year deal. It's like, wait, what? And so it's almost like you kind of lose the forest for the trees a little bit with what they've done where they are finding value.

And even Jeff Petrie, it's like, yeah, that makes sense. That you replaced Nate Schmidt and suddenly he makes less. And it's like, yeah, the puzzle pieces kind of make sense. It's almost like they're outsmarting the league in some ways with like the bravado kind of masks what's beneath the surface a little bit to me. I think it's one of those, I think that essentially Carolina is the smartest team in the NHL, but to me, Florida is a close second and actually, and Washington's up there too.

Like none of this is accidental about Washington. Like this is very, very, very deliberate. I know everyone's gaga about the chase and the Gretzky record and all that, but that's like Brian McCollins put together a really, and now Patrick, but like they put together a really, really smart team here. But again, like this is a really smart organization, the Florida Panthers. None of this is accidental. It may look a little bit caveman-y, but these are all really smart hockey people. And Jeff, as you know, it's not just the tax thing. It's part of it. That's part of it, but it's not the only thing.

You know what it is? It becomes part of it after you've put together the organization. It's just another box. It's almost like you play a video game and you get to a certain level and when you get to that level you unlock something else that's brilliant. That's what the state taxes. It's a great environment, great for your family, great to raise kids, great practice facility, great place to live, easy access, direct flights, and you get to keep all this money in your jeans. But you got to get there first. Which is why, you know, when the commissioner talked about that with the TNT crew, everything that he said was right, he just didn't take that one extra step, which is, yes, once you have all those things, then all of a sudden you say to a player, oh, and by the way, more money goes into your wallet.

Yes. It's complicated. Even like even Vegas, like Riley Smith, three signs of Vegas for now less than he probably got to go somewhere else. Not just the tax thing. But anyway, it's not your right. It's not, it's not just a tax thing, but I think we'd be foolish not to even look at this and say, look, I took a haircut to go back to Florida for a reason. You know how much he could have gotten in Utah? How much Utah was dying for like Aaron Echblad and Mikhail Sergeyev to be their first pair?

Ditto for probably the New York Rangers, maybe even the Toronto Maple Leafs as well for Aaron Echblad. Like he could have had a big number there, but the reason he's probably more comfortable taking a smaller number and taking a haircut, one, success does that. But two, you look at it and you say, I'm still putting more money in my jeans. I'm still okay because of the state tax. Anyhow, this is a conversation that will never end because I don't think the NHL, the owners have any appetite to do anything about it. Jonah's great work. I encourage everybody to read your piece on Mitch Marner at the Athletic. And you have yourself a wonderful summer.

Thanks for stopping by on the program as always. Thanks, Joe, anytime. I slept 16 hours last night, every day this week, every day this month. I can't get out my head, lost all ambitions day to day Guess I can call it a ride I went to the dark man, he tried to give me a little medicine I'm like, nah man, that's fine

I'm not against those methods but I knew It's me, myself and how gonna be fixing my mind Do you wanna break it? I turned on the music I do wanna break it I turned on the music But you turned up, up, out And you're sometimes losing Helping on the days that went wrong Thanks for watching!