The Sheet with Jeff Marek - On the Sheet: Kevin Kurz on John Tortorella's Firing

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Kevin Kurz joins Jeff Marek on The Sheet. Reacting to John Tortorella's firing, discussing what's next for the Flyers and Torts, and breaking down expectations for the team in the offseasonShout out to our sponsors!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Torrebelli thing is fascinating. I think we all wonder about the timing. We wonder if, you know, that was John Torrebelli the other day throwing in the towel. I didn't feel that way to me. Like I mentioned on the show yesterday, I first saw the comments from John Torrebelli before I heard them and saw John express them. Essentially saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, I'm not interested in getting used to coaching a team like this in this situation. To me that didn't feel like John Tortorella saying that's it, peace out, check me out on Facebook, I'm done. To me that was John Tortorella saying we got to be better than this. That we don't want to get used to losing which has been the mantra for John Tortorella since he started coaching this edition of the Philadelphia Flyers. But joining me now Kevin Kurz, very close to the situation,

covers the Philadelphia Flyers for the Athletic and he joins me now. Kevin, first of all thanks for stopping by. Second, I think a lot of us like to be blunt are just before we get into the why and the what's next, I think we're wondering about the timing. You know I know that that you know after the loss against the Toronto Maple Leaf some of the quotes that came out were awkward. I thought you did a great job on Morning Cup of Hockey yesterday, sort of explaining and sort of sharpening the pencil on what a lot of people are trying to make black and white here, when really it was shades of grey. Did this one catch you by surprise? And, you know, we'll do the timing question first. The timing of this one is bizarre, is it to you? Yeah, it is. I was surprised it happened today.

You know, I don't think anyone would have been overly shocked if this was a move they made at the end of the season. So, you know, if you go back to Tuesday, I know those comments blew up. And I think I think you and I are in agreement about what he said. And, you know, I think he just probably used the wrong word, right? He's just frustrated that the team is where it is. I think he thought that this team could make a run much like last year's team,

where they played meaningful games up into the very last game of the season. And even if you just go back to March 1st, as recently as March 1st, they were playing pretty well. They had just come off a win of the, beating the Winnipeg Jets in a shootout, I believe. So, I think he was just frustrated with the precipitous drop-off but

You know, I think to me it's almost like you have to go back to last year and I think when the team did Choke away its playoff spot and really that's the only way to put it. Yep He made a lot of mistakes over this final few weeks. He scratched strong couturier for two games over this final few weeks. He scratched Sean Couturier for two games. He called the team soft after they fought back to one point in a really difficult circumstance where Ivan Fedotov was making his NHL debut. And when you call a team soft,

that's kind of a shot across the bow, right? And there were some of these too. He gets kicked out of the game in Tampa Bay, gets a two game suspension. So I think he pushed a lot of the wrong buttons over the final few weeks last year. And I'm wondering if you're Danny Breyer, maybe did you see him scratch Cam York and then bench Cam York for 50 minutes on Tuesday and think to yourself, you know what, we've already decided we're going to move on after this season.

Maybe we just do it now before something crazy happens. You know, the, the situation with Cam York is an interesting one. I mean, you can recall very well, you were closer to it, obviously than I was. But when, you know, a couple of seasons ago, when we all thought, okay, Cam York's going to make his debut, he's going to, he's

going to make the team after what, a week and a half of training camp, they, they sent him down to the American hockey league and he stayed there for a month and a half, two months, Igor Zemulin ended up taking his spot to kick off the season. And it wasn't until I think like late November, early December that we saw Cam York and it's always been kind of a, I've always, I've always watched, you know, what happens to the one player that the coach ends up sort of picking on here.

And for whatever reason, sometimes coaches will pick a defenseman and that will be like, you'll, you'll, you'll get a sense of what the relationship is with the coach and his team based on his relationship with the one whipping boy. Would it be accurate to say that Cam York was that guy for John Tortorella? Well, yes, he was.

And that's why I kind of zero in on that because we've seen other players that were sort of the target of Tortorella's ire and of zero in on that, because we've seen other players that were sort of the target of Tortorella's ire and they've moved on. Right. If you go back two years ago, Kevin Hayes, Ivan Provarov, Tony D'Angelo, we everyone I wasn't here covering the team then, but I, you know, everyone knew that those were guys that that Tortorella didn't want to be in the dressing room anymore for whatever reason. They move on from him move on from those guys.

Morgan Frost and Joel Farabee were often healthy scratched, benched, the subject of criticism, public criticism from Tortorella to us. So when they get moved to Calgary, that didn't shock anyone either. And to me, that was just a reflection of the fact that Briere, Keith Jones, and Dan Hilferty, the chairman, you know, they were all having, and I was even said this, they were all in constant conversations about every player

on the roster. It was clear that a lot of the conclusions that Tortorella had drawn on certain players were then reflected in the moves that came shortly after that. As far as Cam Yorkork goes it was odd and you know he he scratches him I think it was March 8th, and then cam york comes out a couple days later and says well No, whatever no one told me why I was getting scratched paraphrasing here But he said there was no communication which is exactly what Sean couturier said two years ago, so it just it You know hopefully Danny briar clarifies this more at five o'clock, which is in just in two more hours.

But I do wonder if they just want to cut the cord now so that everyone has a chance over these final few weeks to just move on. Everyone in the dressing room has a chance to move on and know that there's maybe a new voice coming over the summer. So much of life here, I don't want

to make this like a big sort of life lesson or anything, or some grand metaphor, but yeah, so much of a life is all about expectation and how you react is based on expectation. You know, there's a great line from a Tragically Hip Song that goes, courage couldn't come at a worse time. And I do wonder about the wins last year.

Like did the wins last year come at a horrible time, like you're initiating a rebuild here, all of a sudden the team goes on this winning streak and goes on a heater and expectations are raised. I really do wonder, like do you think things would be different if expectations weren't at least somewhat raised based on what we saw last season

or is that completely irrelevant by now? Yeah, that's a good question because, you know, if you go back, it's only a year ago where people were talking about John Tortorella, maybe Jack Adams winner, right? Like, obviously that's nothing new in the NHL. We've seen coaches fall out of favor very quickly in this league.

I mean, I covered one, Pete DeBoer made the Western Conference Finals with the Sharks in 2019, and was out of a job in November. So, you know, obviously this is not an unprecedented thing, but, you know, if you go back to last year, made the Western Conference finals with the Sharks in 2019 and was out of a job in November. So you know, obviously this is not an unprecedented thing, but you know, if you go back to last year that was a team that as you alluded to, everyone thought they were going to be one of the worst in the league and they were right in the playoff pictures through the middle of March.

And you know, the reason they were in that playoff picture is because so many of the young players had had developed well under John Tortorella Travis Sandheim Travis connect me you know these guys are cornerstones now they took huge steps under Tortorella Rasmus Rista linens a guy that says I wish I had been coached by Tortorella earlier in my career And he's a guy that they value so much that they didn't even really put him on the market Leading up to the to the trade deadline because they want him around When the team's ready to compete again because he's some nice he's been their best

defenseman. You know, Tyson Forster, Cam York, Owen Tippett, even Sam Ayrson before the bottom sort of dropped out of him. They all progressed under Tortorella. And, you know, the biggest reason the Flyers dropped out of the playoff race, Tortorella has made some mistakes. But the biggest reason they dropped out of the playoff race. Latl. They tour around has made some mistakes, but the biggest reason they dropped out of the playoff race last season and they weren't in it this season is because of the goaltending.

You had the worst safe percentage last season. You've got the worst safe percentage this season. And obviously Carter Hart's departure. There's nothing they could really do about that. But you know, what's the old phrase? You know, show me a bad coach. I'll show you a bad goalie. Well, you know, what's the old phrase? You know, show me a bad coach, I'll show you a bad goalie. Well, you know, the biggest mistake that Danny Breyer's made,

let's not let him completely off the hook. The biggest mistake he made is bringing, Sam Areson, I still think there's something there, but the guys that have been backing him up are not NHL goaltenders, neither one of them. And that was the same case last year after Heart left. The guys they had backing up A Erson weren't NHL caliber. So I know I'm getting into a lot of stuff here,

but the young players did make progress last year. Some of them have been inconsistent last year, but then some other guys, some other young players have been better, whether it's Noah Case, Jamie Drysdale, and Matthew Mitchroff, I think, is having a fine season. I don't like it. I think back to Tim Murray and the Buffalo Sabres when they were tanking to try to get Connor McDavid.

And every time, every time a goaltender made a save, you remember this Kevin, every time a goaltender made a save in Buffalo, he got moved out. Like he got traded. It's like, no, that's not the, that's not the program here. Like the quick, the quickest way to hasten along a rebuild is to put off the goalie question. Like, you know, the first thing you not the, that's not the program here. Like the quick, the quickest way to hasten along a rebuild is to put off the goalie question or, you know, put in, put in

goaltenders that aren't quite ready for prime time. I'm not saying that this is some elaborate plan here. Um, but I, I, I just do wonder, cause I agree with you, you know, the, the, the old sayings about, you know, goaltending. You know, the one that I always go back to,

Kevin, is if you have a good goalie, it's 70% of your team. If you don't, it's a hundred. And I'm with you, like, I haven't seen a coach fired where the goaltenders performed well. And maybe it's just too simplistic to look at this and say, well, there you go. Is a, they draw the straight line between the

net and the bench, but here it is again. Like, even if they had like average goaltending, I do wonder if things would be different. But then I pause and say to myself, that's not the plan right now. Like the plan is still for pain and draft picks and prospects and they have three first rounders this year. Like that is still the program here.

I do agree with you about the goaltending. I do agree with you about Erson. I. I do agree with you about Erson. I think that there is something there with Erson. Um, has he played too many games too fast at the NHL? You know, we can all discuss amongst ourselves, but is it over, is it too simplistic just to look at this and say the problem once again, because this is the history of the Philadelphia Flyers.

Um, they don't have the goalie and like this goes back to like, there was that one, like I remember that Kevin, there was that one summer where Bobby Clark would have been the general manager and the decision they had was between Curtis Joseph and John Van Beesbroek and they went cheap and they took John Van Beesbroek and you know, Kujo went on to become Kujo. But it seems as if like that old stereotype that goes back to, to I guess Ron Hextall would to become Kujo, but it seems as if like that old stereotype

that goes back to, I guess Ron Hextall would have been the last one, still looking for a goalie in Philly. The Carter Hart situation we have to bracket, I think you're right about that. But again, four by six, still the problem in Philly. Yeah, it is. And you know, that's something that they're probably

going to have to address in the offseason. You certainly can't come back with Sam Ayrson and then these two guys that they have here right now. I think that's a non-starter and I think they know that. But you know, this is an offseason in which they want to add, they want to start finding talent again. You know, I still I see, I see people in my Twitter mentions or whatever talking about taking in next season. No, that's that's not what they're going to do. Like that's, they've been very clear. Danny Breyer has been very, very clear that this is the bottom this is and that's why you know,

you're right bottoming out this season is certainly not a disaster for a team that doesn't plan on bottoming out next season. They need another high-end prospect in the fold here. So, and I think they know that and that's why they made some of the moves they made. So, but you know, it's interesting, that's why you come back to the timing, the first question you asked because, you know, obviously they just looked at Tortorella as the guy that they wanted to establish the foundation, the culture, the standard.

Um, and they don't see him as the guy that's going to stick around to take the team to another level. I mean, it was only a couple of weeks ago where we've had some real good back and forth with Tortorella on, but it's usually on off days between games. He, he, he's very patient. He's very,'s very honest and descriptive in his answers a lot of the time. And he was pushing back on a suggestion from a different reporter saying, well, you know, you're, you're 10 years, only four years. What about in five years when you might not be here? And he's like, well, how do you know? How do you know what my tenure is? How do you know? I don't

want to keep coaching. I mean, he certainly was acting great right up until the end as a guy that planned on being back here next season. So, you know, again, I go back to my original point. I wonder if the Flyers had already made up their minds however long ago that he wasn't going to be the team to take them into the future, that because of some of those comments, because of the way they've been losing lately,

just cut the cord now've been losing lately, just cut the cord now before, you know, something terrible happens that leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. In your estimation, Kevin, what style of coach, maybe the better question is what age of coach would be right here for the Philadelphia Flyers next? Like, you know, listen, Jay Woodcroft was there for a portion of training camp brought there by John Tortorella. I think his name will probably be in the mix here in this conversation.

I wonder about Pat Frischweiler with Western Michigan, for the obvious, for one of the obvious reasons there we can get to in a second. You know, he was Josie's line mate in Western Michigan? I didn't know that. Oh, that's a nice one. I heard that recently. Yeah. So that's an interesting name. Yeah. And they actually have a, there's a prospect there that Alex Bump. Yeah. He's, and they actually have a, there's a prospect there that, uh, Alex bump. Yeah. So you might, you might, no, hang on. Let's, let's pause on that for one second. Listen, um, Fliers have some wonderful prospects in the pipeline and some wonderful prospects on the horizon. Um, Alex bump was a fifth round draft pick just looks tremendous for this team. And

there are some people I know in and around the Flyers organization that would put him above someone like Jet Lachenko, who was their first rounder and almost made the team full time this season. Like, do you have a thought in what should people know about Alex Bump? Because the more people you talk to around the Flyers organization, the more it sounds like, you know, this guy might be top of the list. Yeah, they genuinely are excited about him. And I know it sounds cliche sometimes to say a front office is excited

about such and such a draft pick. Right. But I think they legitimately feel he might be the steel of the draft. And I heard, too, that, you know, he was a fifth round pick. And I heard that didn't sit well with him, that he was he was pissed off. He went in the fifth round. So he carries a little bit of a chip on his shoulder, which, you know, that's never a bad thing, right? I remember talking to Dan Boyle,

who was well into his thirties when I covered him. And he was still, he was still pissed off that he hadn't gotten drafted at all, right? And it was still fueling him 10, 15 years later. So yeah, he, he's a guy that I think they're going to try to get him here as soon as possible, right? You'll just stick them on the, on the phantoms there. If they make the playoffs, um, jet Luchenko joined the phantoms today.

So, um, yeah, I don't know a whole lot about him yet. I actually, uh, had planned on digging into that a little bit today, but before the news fan here. Yeah. So I don't know a whole lot about him yet, but yeah, I, I, I'm just sort of throwing darts here. First of all, it makes a lot of sense to me. Um, the other name and you know, he's someone

who's been a candidate for NHL jobs before and has done a wonderful work at the American hockey league level right now with a resurgent Washington capitals team. I wonder about someone like Mitch Love, who's an assistant with Spencer Carbree's. Again, like this is going to be a lot of kids here. A lot of young players.

And that's why I sort of lobbed that name out there. Mitch Love is going to be an NHL coach one day. I wonder if that could fit with the Philadelphia Flyers, but do you have a thought? I know it's all fresh and the wound is still open for John Tortorello. We'll get there in a second, but an idea of maybe what kind of coach you could see coming in for

Philadelphia? Yeah. I mean, everyone always likes to say, well, if you had a real hard ass coach, then maybe you'll go for a more player friendly coach the next time, just to sort of maybe bring these guys along a little bit. Um, you know, considering the way the dressing

room is and, and, and, you know, they've talked down the end about their strong culture and how much they all love one another and blah, blah, blah. Right. But, you know, they they did lose their emotional leader and Scott Lawden, he was the heartbeat of this team. And I don't think it's any coincidence that the losing started to come after they dealt Scott Lawden. So, you know, I wonder if you bring in

someone that's a little bit, certainly, just about every coach is going to be maybe a little bit less demanding than a John Tortorella, but You know, I think if you're setting Vegas odds, you're putting the best odds on Rick Tocket, right? Depending on what happens there in Vancouver. He's super close with Keith Jones former flyer certainly fits into What many fans feel a Philadelphia Flyers coach should be because they remember a, a lot of them still remember him from the 80s, right? Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see, or, you know,

maybe they even give Brad Shaw a chance. You know, I know they love Brad Shaw. They love what he's done with some of these defensemen. I don't think that's going to happen, but I'm not sure I completely shut the door on that happening either. Sure. Yeah, but it's a fair question. sure I completely shut the door on that happening either. Sure. Yeah. But, but it's, it's a fair question. I don't have an answer to it.

Um, the, the, the other thing then becomes what's next for John Tortorella. You know, is, is this John Tortorella's last team? Uh, does he still want to do this? Uh, and if he does, is there opportunity out there? I wonder about Buffalo. Lindy Ruff has one more year on his deal. Terry Pagula really does love Lindy Ruff. I wonder about a bump up for Lindy Ruff and a

position there behind the bench for John Tortorella. I mean, not exactly a secret. He's got a history with the Buffalo Sabres and the Rochester Americans. What do you think's next for, for Torz? Is that it for the NHL? Maybe a media career, maybe write for the athletic, maybe do a podcast at Nation Network.

I don't know. What do you see John Tortorella doing next? Yeah, I'm hoping. I mean, he hasn't texted me back yet, so I don't, I can't say I haven't yet said it in person. I hope he gets back to me, but yeah, it's a good question. I mean, he had said coming into this job that this was his last stop, right?

But like I said before, I certainly have never gotten the impression that he's ready to hang him up or anything like that. I think he wanted to stick around and see this thing through and see the Flyers grow as a team. I was a little surprised too, that maybe not surprised, but I thought the possibility at least existed

that they would keep him around the front office just because it also seemed to me like, yeah, his his voice was someone that that that Breyer and Keith Jones really valued. And again, I go back to the moves that they made. A lot of those were certainly Tortorella influenced. So, um, you know, that's it's it's a fair question. I don't, I, I don't know. I, I would love to get into his mind and, and, and know if he still wants to keep going, but, um, you know, he, he did seem pretty upset with, uh, you know, with the way things have been going. So I think if he was to jump into a job, it wouldn't be with a rebuilding team.

It'd have to be with a team that was ready to win now. Last one for you. I'm, I'm curious about the Flyers fan base. Um, we've seen fans scream and howl for rebuilds before, right? All these teams going nowhere. I got to tear it down, got to rebuild, got to start over again. And the enthusiasm for that generally lasts about a season. And then fans start to get a little bit impatient and want to

really start seeing some results. Everybody signs up for it. Everyone knows what they're getting into, but then there's the reality of the losses piling up. Where's the Flyers fan base at right now? I know they might've been spoiled a little bit by all the wins early last season, but where are Flyers fans today?

Yeah, it's a good question because it does seem like so many of them were hoping they would bottom out and get a high draft pick. That's certainly happening this season. I mean, the way things are going, they're probably going to end up in the top five, if not higher. You know, that's why I go back to last year and and I think it would have been so valuable for for them from a relevancy standpoint to make the playoffs. You know, they get in, they're playing the New York Rangers almost definitely. I mean, even if you're just a casual fan, you'd say, wow, the Flyers are playing the Rangers and the playoffs. Like I'm going to tune in and see that. And frankly, I think the Flyers would have given the Rangers a better series

than I think they played Washington, right? They just sort of rolled over Washington. Yeah. Um, so, you know, that didn't happen. Um, and. Danny Breyer was very clear even after last season when he said, just because we were so close to the playoffs this year, don't expect that to happen next year. There's still some pain to come here. So, you know, that's why I think they're, they're, they're really going to try to make

some moves and better the team team going into the next year that they're I know they're raising ticket prices on some some seats. They want to become relevant again. I think that's a big reason Keith Jones is here. Media friendly guy. He can get that message out. Oh, yeah. So, you know, in terms of where the fans are, I. I think the team right now, they're they're so much they're so far off the radar with the Eagles winning the Super Bowl again. The Phillies are pretty good. The Sixers

are more popular even though they stink in this year. I think they're sort of biding their time. I think they're not necessarily upset that the team is off the radar right now but you know that next year is really going to be the year I think where The team is off the radar right now, but, next year is really gonna be the year I think where we see some fans either lose their patience with everything or start to come back. Next year is such an important year for management just in terms of getting the fan base jazzed up again. And let's face it, John Tortorello

was still a hugely popular guy here. I mean, you go back to pregame introductions on opening night, him and Michkov, it was the ovations for those two guys when they introduced everybody. It was probably I don't know who got the bigger ovation. So you're going to I think you're going to see a lot of casual fans that are that are pretty upset that John Tortorello is gone. And that's only going to up the pressure on the front office to really do something significant this summer to try to get this turned around maybe not turned

around the right direction because I think they're fine with the direction right now but to really finally see some results. It makes a lot of sense. I know it's a busy day for you. Thanks for parking so much time with me today Kevin. Much appreciated. Enjoy the Brie'er presser and we'll check back soon. No dull moments in Philly. Thanks Kevin. You got it. Take care. I went to the dark man, he tried to give me a little medicine I'm like, nah man, that's fine I'm not against those methods but I knew It's me, myself and how this gon' be fixed in my mind

I do want a bracket I turned down the music I do wanna break it I turn down the music It's enough, yeah, I'm out of it Sometimes losing Helping on the days that went wrong