The Sheet with Jeff Marek - On the Sheet: Kevin Kurz on the Flyers' Side of the Leo Carlsson Offer Sheet

Starting point is 00:00:01 Okay, so from the Anaheim point of view to the Philadelphia Flyers point of view, we go to our friend Kevin Kerr covers the Philadelphia Flyers for the athletic. And I'll open with the same question. I've asked everybody today, was this the terminal point all along that Anaheim was going to match? I think that's probably what the Flyers figured, even though they took this big swing. And in fact, you know, when I was checking around yesterday, somebody did tell me that they, we're leading towards thinking that Anaheim was going to match, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:00:36 You just look at the player. He's too important to that team. But it still stings, right? If you're the flyers, you're still disappointed. I mean, you know, Danny Breyer has done, I think, a very good job setting the table with this, resetting the table maybe with this organization. He's cleared out catch space. He signed some young players to long-term manageable deals.

Starting point is 00:00:59 you know, he's restocked the system in terms of the prospects. And, you know, I think he's got the right coach in place in Rick Tuckett. We saw what Tocke did with this most recent team. So I think a lot of those pieces are there. And if you all of a sudden put Leo Carlson onto that roster, you know, you would have, to me, the path would be pretty clear to becoming a Stanley Cup contender, not right away, but in a couple years as what is a solid group of young players. would continue to progress.

Starting point is 00:01:30 So, you know, that's still the huge hole at this lineup, at the top of this lineup, that I don't know how they're going to fill it, but, you know, we sure know now that they're not going to stop at anything to try and find a player like that. No, we are expecting Dan DeBier to speak at some point today about all of this, true or false? Yeah, I asked yesterday, and I was told they were going to address it at some point after the decision came down. Now, I don't know. you know what I can tell you yesterday

Starting point is 00:02:00 the flyers had no idea which way the ducks were even leaning I don't I'm not sure Pat Verbeek really communicated at all with them so you know they might have seen the tweet just like we all did right so they might be responding accordingly and getting their their ducks in a row now but we are going to hear from Riaire at some point if it doesn't happen today I would expect it'll happen tomorrow um you know part of it too and I was sort of framing this to Dave Pan Yota before he came on as you know, if you get Leo Carlson, if

Starting point is 00:02:30 Anaheim doesn't match, are you all of the sudden the dog that caught the car? And what now? Like, I think we've all looked at the salary cap commits and, you know, what could be next for Zegris and driesdale filing for arbitration, etc. If the dog catches the car in Philadelphia with Leo Carlson, what happens? How do you mean that? I guess what do you, what's...

Starting point is 00:02:57 The dog, you, you, you, you, you, because I'm with you, I think it was a long shot that they were going to get Leo Carlson. But, hey man, you took a swing. And Danny Breyer and Keith Jones are going to be heroes in Philadelphia because of it, even if they didn't get him and they didn't get Leo Carlson. But in the off chance that they did, they have this player at a whopper of a contract, $18 million. Like, essentially, what's the cascade from that? Like, how many players do they, how many contracts, how many players did they have to let go of?

Starting point is 00:03:27 Where do they carve out? how do they accommodate getting an $18 million superstar? Well, you know, I think that's all along. If you look at the moves Briehers made and the players he saw in the contract, contracts he signed players to, you know, they, they were doing that, I think, with this offseason in mind. Obviously, like so many other teams, they saw the free agency class dry up. And so they had to pivot to Carlson.

Starting point is 00:03:54 But I think, you know, they saw the rising salary cap. you've got Owen Tippett at a manageable number. He should be a 30 goal score. Travis Kineckney is not breaking the bank. He's a 30 goal score. You've got Tyson Forster, they locked up right before this offer sheet. We'll see how he progresses, but he's, you know, what, 7.1 million, I think, now for the next nine years. You know, Cam York is, is it a reasonable number. Travis Sandheim was signed before Breyer got here, but that's a reasonable number. So that's why this made sense, I think, to them, is that they could have, they could overpay for a guy like Leo Carlson because in their own salary structure,

Starting point is 00:04:31 he would have fit, you know, and it's such an important piece that you think to yourself, I think if you're Danny Breyer, you know, yeah, we're overpaying for this guy, but all the other guys around them, all these young players that we have locked up are at reasonable numbers. And as the salary cap continues to go up, that 18 million will obviously look better and better as the years go by. So, you know, obviously it would have been a risk because Carlson still hasn't reached his full potential and maybe he doesn't, right? We can't We can't predict the future. And maybe in two years, that contract ends up looking terrible.

Starting point is 00:05:01 But within this team and within this salary cap structure, it wouldn't have been a problem this season. You know, they would have had to probably deal Rasmus Ristelainen or Nick Seeler. And maybe you would have had to make a couple other moves on the periphery. But it certainly would not have completely blown their whole structure out of the water just because of the work Breyer has done to this point. So then here becomes one of the questions that I think, you know, many are wondering about. Let me try to frame it this way. Did the Leo Carlson offer sheet just make Porter Martone very rich? Yeah, you have to wonder that, right?

Starting point is 00:05:41 Right. Yeah, I mean, he's, you know, he's already the odds-on favorite to win the Calder Trophy next year. Yeah. You would think that's something that Breer is going to want to get ahead of. If Matt Veemichikov comes back and has a great third year, after taking a step backwards last season. He's a guy they're going to have to extend next season. So you do wonder if that's going to be a problem.

Starting point is 00:06:04 That's going to be a problem for a lot of general managers, right? You can go right down the list of players that you would think are going to get locked up now, or general managers are going to try to lock them up early. But, you know, that's, I think, another part of what Breyer has done is when you look at the players that he signed, so many of the long-term contracts, he does have wiggle room. to move these guys, right? Owen Tippett signed long term,

Starting point is 00:06:27 but he's only got a 10-team, no-trade list. Christian DeVorex contract is five years, but it's only a full no-move clause for the first two. Really, Kinekney's the only one who's locked up long-term. I think it's another four or five years. He has a full no-move clause. But just about everybody on this roster, Brierreier's left himself some flexibility to move players out if he has to.

Starting point is 00:06:54 And he's not going to be in a rush to trade Owen Tippett, but if, you know, Martone, as you mentioned, somehow now is worth $15 million a year, maybe you have to. But again, he's left himself flexibility, I think, to be able to react to, you know, some of these market fluctuations that he started, I guess, ironically. Yeah, it's, this one, this one tracks back to you, Danny. So maybe I should have opened with this, because this part to me is, is a point. that I've been trying to beat home to people for a long time now. We've heard managers over the years, Kevin, you've heard so many of them.

Starting point is 00:07:40 Just like, offer sheets don't work. I'm not submitting them. All it does is at flate prices for everybody. So, you know, after I'm done my business and arbitration's done, it's gone fishing. I'm not interested in offer sheets. And I always say to myself, like, why would you even admit that to your fan base to say that I'm not going to try to use every single tool available to improve my team? Now there's a new breed of general managers that are using all of the hands.

Starting point is 00:08:00 hammers and screwdrivers in the toolbox. And we're seeing this now consistently. How is Danny Breyer being received in Philadelphia? How is Keith Jones being received in Philadelphia right now? Because even though they didn't get the player, the fans all watch them take a swing. And I think that like you, like anybody who's covered the game or has followed the game for a long time, sees a real element of Ed Snyder in this one. Like I saw the numbers and I went, I remember Ed Snyder saying after the Bruins won this

Starting point is 00:08:30 Stanley Cup in 2011. Where's my Tim Thomas? And then $60 million appeared for Ilya Brasgalloff. Like there's an element of Ed's. This is like an Ed Snyder offer sheet. Yeah. And I think the fans here have been waiting for that sort of approach. But I think also that, you know, you have to be encouraged that Carlson chose the flyers, even though it didn't work out. You know, yeah. LeBron reported that seven teams reached out, four teams made formal offers. And he, any selected here. So I think that means something. I think, you know, if you're a player that might be looking for a new home and you might, you know, let's just say hypothetically, you're Dylan Larkin and you're looking for another team. He might say, gee, why did Leo Carlson think Philadelphia

Starting point is 00:09:13 was a right place for him long term? You know, obviously the money is a factor. But I think, you know, I think Danny definitely earned some, some cachet in this market with the fan base by taking that kind of move that, and you said it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, kind of move, right? Where everybody else be damned, we're going to try to improve this team and I don't care if people are, get pissed off about it. So I think, you know, sometimes I think you have to separate the online fans from the fans that are more realistic and because there's a lot, there's, there's so much noise with the online group here. I think there's reasons for that. I don't really feel like getting into, but

Starting point is 00:09:53 I think when you see that, there's, there's, there's a lot of, there's, there's, there's a lot of that the interest that was around this team after Martone showed up in March, after that late playoff push, beating Sidney Crosby and the Penguins in the first round, and then, you know, getting swept by Carolina and then leaving the yice to a standing ovation after a four-game sweep. I think most fans that hadn't paid attention to the Flyers for a long time, you know, distracted by the Eagles winning Super Bowl, the Phillies, making deep playoff runs and the Sixers being good for most of that time. I think they've sort of put themselves back on the map a little bit.

Starting point is 00:10:29 Now, you know, it'll be interesting to see how it goes this year because, you know, naturally when you see a team make the playoffs and win around, you think, all right, well, they should be even better next year. And Danny's sort of cautioned against that publicly, and he even said before all this Carlson stuff happened, that we might take a step backwards next year. I thought that was a little bit of an odd comment. because I think now, you know, fans are going to be anxious to see, well, what's the next move?

Starting point is 00:10:59 This one didn't work out. What's he going to do now? Yeah. And I think the element of it's, there's an element of uncertainty, but I think there's an element of excitement, too, just for the fans to see that the general manager is willing to, and the organization as a whole, Dan Hilford, Keith Jones, are going to go to these sorts of lengths to try to make this team better. I can see everybody in ticket sales when Danny says that saying, no, no, no, stop. Stop, let's get our group sales in here first. And then we'll start talking about maybe we'll take us.

Starting point is 00:11:27 The other thing, too, in all of this. And how many times have we sat here and talked about the Philadelphia Flyers and said, okay, this guy is the answer. No, it's going to be that guy. No, it's going to be Roman Chichmatic. No, it's going to be Robert Esch. No, it's going to be. I just mentioned Lieberzgalov.

Starting point is 00:11:41 What a season for Dan Vlodar. Heart trophy votes. Like, I've stopped saying, is he, the answer. Is he the guy because we've been false started on Philly goaltenders going back to Hextall and previous to him, the late Pelly Lindberg. But does it feel like legit here with Dan Vlittar? Yes, it does. You know, you're always a little reluctant to project goaltenders, right? Just because it's so volatile. I mean, you know, I just go back to my own experience in San Jose, Martin Jones had, you know, Doug, Doug Wilson makes the big trade, brings in Martin Jones.

Starting point is 00:12:19 He has a great first year. They lock him up. And then it was downhill pretty quickly for Martin Jones after that. So, you know, and I'm not saying Dan Vlodar is the next Martin Jones. I do have more faith in Vlodar just because, you know, I think he's not only just a solid goaltender, but I think he's almost like in the playoffs, he was almost like their conscience throughout the whole run. You know, he led in a couple weird goals. And he was downplaying it.

Starting point is 00:12:46 And he's like, guys, what are you talking about? We're fine. Everything's going to be fine. And Rick Tocket would talk about him coming to the bench and firing the team up when they were dragging a little bit. And everybody's saying how that's so unique for a goaltender to do that. But, you know, Vladar, I think he's, I do have faith that he's going to be able to, maybe not, you know, be a superstar in this league. But certainly playing under Rick Tockett's system with the defense in front of him. The fact that he's fit in so well off the ice, that everyone just loves and respects this guy.

Starting point is 00:13:22 I mean, that's not a, it sounds cliche, but that's a real thing, I think, with Vlodar and his teammates. I mean, there's a real bond there. So, you know, again, like, you worry a little bit about giving a goalie, a five-year extension when he's really just been a starter for one year. Yeah. But there's no doubt that Breyer thinks he's the guy. And, you know, I think, too, it should be said, you know, you bring in Joseph Wall, he'll have a little bit, he should have a little bit more reliable backup goaltender as a tandem moving forward. So maybe that takes a little bit of pressure off them. The Flyers do have some goalie prospects in the system.

Starting point is 00:14:01 They just drafted two. They've got two. They took in the 2024 draft, I think it was that are developing. They just took two checks. They love Ladar so much. They just took two checks. We're going, I'll check goalies now. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:15 I think Vladar said somewhere he was going to have him over for dinner at his place. That's awesome. Yeah. So, you know, you've got Vladar. You've got Joseph Wall for two years. And I think organizationally, the hope is that you have probably somebody else come along in, you know, three or four years. Right. As a reliable guy, too.

Starting point is 00:14:36 This has been great. And it's been great having you on all season long. And following this, like, the past six days have been catnip for hockey fans. I can only, like I've got a bunch of friends of mine that are all Philadelphia Flyers fans who text me three or four times a day. How does it feel today? Are they going to match? Are they not going to match? Like, this has been a wild time.

Starting point is 00:14:55 And it does. Like, I'll sign off with you the same way that I signed off with Hart Levine. Like, is this not the most interesting and exciting off season we've ever seen in the NHL? And all we could think about when McDavid re-signed and Caprizoff and Eichel and everybody, Kyle Connor, we say, well, next summer is going to be a dud. It's been the best off-season, and it's not even close to being done yet. It's been the most exciting off-season we've ever seen. Yeah, and it was kind of dull in Philadelphia before this offer sheet, right?

Starting point is 00:15:28 You just had Joseph Wall and Nolichari, and then Breyer throws this firebomb into everything. I know a lot of people think, is he all of a sudden going to now pivot towards Fantilli or Bard? And I don't quite see that happening. I think, you know, he's got a, there's a, the way it was put to me was there's a lot of planning and though there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes. I mean, the Carlson offered me to me was as much about circumstances as it was about the player. Don't disagree. Kevin, this has been great, as it always is.

Starting point is 00:15:59 Thanks so much for being on the beat and being available. Really appreciate it. You got it, buddy. Good to talk to Jeff.

The Sheet with Jeff Marek - On the Sheet: Kevin Kurz on the Flyers' Side of the Leo Carlsson Offer Sheet

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