The Sheet with Jeff Marek - On the Sheet: Pierre McGuire

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Pierre McGuire joins Jeff Marek to discuss the Rangers/Sabres game, tampering, developing players, the Nashville Predators, and Robert Thomas.--------------------------------------------Connect with us on ⬇️Daily FaceoffX: https://x.com/DailyFaceoffInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailyfaceoff/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoff/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dailyfaceoff?lang=en Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/The SheetX: https://x.com/thesheethockey Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesheethockey/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesheethockey Daily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff#Nashville #Predators #NewYork NewYorkRangers #dailyfaceoff #jeffmarek #buffalosabres #nhl #nhlnews #hockey #hockeytalk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at one you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. I mean, the bio is long, whether it's coach, whether it's manager, whether it's teacher, whether it's broadcaster, whether it's podcaster. He's done it all, and he joins me now on the sheet. Pierre, how are you today?

Excellent, Jeff. So nice to see you. Nice to see you as well. So really quick, I mean, I have a laundry list of things to get to with you. And I know that you and I can go off on tangents and we'll end up talking about St. Mike's or we'll end up talking about St. Andrews

and just that'll be the cozy hour. So let me start by the big game of the day. So the way that I framed it off the top of the show was hate watching is a thing. Sometimes you'll watch a game because you hate them and you want them to lose or a player you don't want to do well. Like fans do it. Managers, coaches, players, everybody does it. But that's not tonight. Tonight is chaos watching because there has to be a winner.

Or should I say more profoundly in this case because there has to be a winner or should I say more profoundly in this case, there has to be a loser. Like a loss would be more damaging for which team tonight, the Rangers or the Buffalo Sabres? Oh, I think the damage would be incalculable for the New York Rangers if they were to lose tonight. I know it's a road game and I know it's against an urgent opponent like the Buffalo Sabres, but the truth of the matter, Jeff, is you know and I know the expectation level in New York was much greater than the expectation level in Buffalo. And for whatever reason, this Ranger team has gone off the track. I don't know what was said before I came on, but I can tell you right now.

This thing went off the track last year after they were eliminated by the Florida Panthers, and all of a sudden somebody decided to get cued on Jacob Truba, knowing that they probably needed his cap space long term to get to Sturgeon sign. But then the leak started to come out and then the questioning started to come out. And I said it last summer when this all starts, that this is not going to sit well with the players. It's not going to sit well with Trouba and everybody tried to play nice, but I don't think nice has worked out very well. So I think if the Rangers lose tonight, it's a big problem. So let me, let me, let me, let me,

let me park a little bit of time on that one too, because I try to put myself in these situations, try to give it a sort of three 60 look as much as possible. How do the, how does the player feel in this case, Jacob Trouba, how do the players feel and how did the veterans feel? How did the kids feel and And how do the veterans feel? How do the kids feel? And how the organization feels as well. What I keep coming back to is if the Rangers made the decision that they had

to move on from Jacob Trouba, and I know a complicating factor is he's the captain. And we've seen this before. We saw it with, you know, Andrew Truck was on waivers. Ethan Moreau was on waivers. I remember when you remember when craig revay got scratched for 16 games before he got put on waivers by the buffalo state you remember all of this stuff how should they have handled it if they had made that decision to move on from truba how should the how should the new york rangers have handled this from your experience I never would have allowed it to get public.

I think it would have been short, sweet, and to the point. The player, the family, the agent. And I'm sure they probably had some discussions, but this would have been a whole lot of fence mending in terms of a negotiation with the player and just say, you tell us where you want to go and we'll make it work for you. And we're not going to put it out there. We're just going to make it work for you.

And I don't think that discussion ever happened because you saw pushback from the players camp in particular. And that's when I think it started to go off the rails. It's been interesting to watch some of the former Ranger players, you know, say, hey, look, they play for keeps there. And, you know, I heard that soundbite from Kevin Shattenkirk, who's just one of the nicest men, and I know you know him well, one of the nicest men you'll ever meet. And he's like, oh, it's kind of like a rite of passage when you play at MSG. It shouldn't really have to be that way.

You know, it wasn't that way for Rod Gilbert. You know, and I can go down the line. There are a lot of great Rangers that didn't have it that way, you know. So, anyways, long story short, I'm not sure it was handled particularly well internally. Um, when you look at the team on the other end of the ring tonight, the Buffalo Sabres, um, I thought in the last 24 hours or so, the comments from Lindy Ruff are really telling, um, you know, Seth Appert handles the power play and Lindy Ruff hasn't been shy about publicly criticizing the power play, uh Lindy Ruff hasn't been shy about publicly criticizing the power play,

publicly criticizing Dylan Cousins, publicly criticizing Tage Thompson. And then the one that got me, Pierre, because I always try to put on my coach decoder ring. Like, you'll know this better than me. I'm trying to think, okay, what is Lindy trying to tell us here? And when he starts saying things like, 25 games, you know, what you have, you know, what your team is. The way I read that is okay. I'm done doing it. Everybody else's way. And maybe that means Kevin Adams way. Now we're doing it my way. If I'm going down,

we're doing it my way. Is that how you read those comments as well? Yes, sir. A hundred percent 100 and what's interesting about what you just said we didn't rehearse this before the season started remember they had a long trip over the czech republic they actually spent a lot of time in germany as well and because of jj peterkin wanting basically at a camp there lindy didn't mess around they didn't amalgamate their american hockey league team their prospects and their NHL players in a formal training camp. They went right for it because he said, we have no time to mess around. Well, now they're at the 25 game mark. They know exactly where they are. I mean, no disrespect meant to Seth Appert at all, but you're talking about putting the keys to the

candy store in a man's hands who's never spent a minute in the NHL. That's a tough ask on a power play that, you know, you're trying to formulate. Not a lot of experience there. And so when this thing got off to a tough start and it starts to go backwards, that makes it really difficult. Really, really difficult. Do you get the sense? Because I do. Like last year, there was the there was the middle stat trade for for Bo Byram and like,

OK, you know what? Kevin's got Kevin's got fastball. All right. He's got he's got a fastball. It's a it's a nice trade for the Buffalo Sabres. But as the losses pile up this year and then there was that presser last week. And it's never a good idea to go after the hometown when you're when you're when you're struggling, because now palm trees like you saw was hitting the ice. And the guy people showing up in Hawaiian shirts and it's just not good, Pierre. So I look at Kevin Adams here and I say, this is the way, you want to change things,

but outside of like sending Lafferty or Obey Kubel or maybe Jack Quinn to the American Hockey League, I mean, you're really just sort of shuffling deck chairs in some way. You can't make a profound change because this is the worst possible situation for a GM to be in to make a trade. Everybody knows you're vulnerable

and you're the wounded coyote and everybody knows and everybody's circling. And you can almost hear it in Kevin Adams' voice and he sort of referenced a trade that went away in the summer. It feels very much like he doesn't want to make a deal that he knows he's going to lose because he's not going to get back what he thinks is value for what he'll have to give up. Do you get the same sense as well? And if you can describe it,

that must be agony for a manager to go through, be in that situation. I don't know what his infrastructure is in terms of who he communicates on a daily basis with, in terms of professional trades, dealing with the American Hockey League team, working with your pro scouts. But here's what I do know. When you're in a situation like the Buffalo Sabres or in Jeff, internal development, especially with younger players, needs to happen at the NHL level. Zach Benson hasn't gotten a ton better this year. Jack Quinn definitely hasn't gotten a ton better this year. Dylan Cousins, he's fallen back.

J.J. Paterka, not as good as I think they were expecting. So that's just four examples of players that they need to be better internally. One of the things that did that I think was smart, Juan Levi they sent to the American Hockey League and just gave them the net. And I think eventually that will be good for them. And James Reimer is a good, steady, solid hand. He's a good person to have around your team. But I think one of the questions marks I would have if I were the owner of the team

or I was the manager of the team, how come my young guys aren't getting any better? What's going on? Why is there not enough development? And I think that's a big part of when you have a team like Ottawa or Buffalo or Detroit or Montreal, what's your internal development system look like with your players at the NHL level? And if it's not very good. You got some problems.

So I've got a, wow, there's a, there's a few things I want to jump into on, on those comments. So a couple of things, one about, so I talked a lot over the last couple of days about what you just mentioned. That is who you're communicating with. And in the American hockey league is Jason Carmanos. And there is a, is resume there. Like Jason Carmanos. And there is a resume there. Like, Jason Carmanos has been around for a long time with a couple of organizations in Carolina and

Pittsburgh as well. So there is some experience there. But since Kevin Adams came in, the story of the Buffalo Sabres has been inexperience all around, right? People coming in from the Academy of Hockey and in and out in six months or a year. And there was that period where essentially Kevin Adams was the only manager in the organization. And this is his first go around as a GM of an NHL team. See, I look around the Sabres and to me, the whole story is inexperience. It is inexperience in the front office and it's inexperience on the ice. And here's, here's the thing. I'll always, I'll ask everybody, name me the player who was hurt by spending a little bit extra time in the American league. And you look at like Dylan cousins, no time in the American league, right,

right up into the NHL. Oh, uh, Jack Quinn is, is, is another great example here. So Quinn, rookie of the year in the American hockey league, that's awesome. The playoffs start and he struggles. The default turns into, he had a good season, rookie of the year, let's get him up to the big team. You haven't passed all the tests in the American Hockey League. And to the point about Devin Levi as well, you're right. But it's almost as if they went into that one backwards. Because last year, it was, you know, Ukapeka Lukanen was scratched for eight games in a row. Now he's one of the top 10 goaltenders in the NHL. Like, they went back, they've been, they false started Lukanen so many times.

They put Devin Levi in every social media platform they could find when he turned pro and realized, you know what? Maybe it shouldn't be Levi and Comrie starting this season. Maybe the guy that's played in the American Hockey League for a long time, Lukanen, maybe he's going to be our guy. Like I just look at too many players, again, too many players rushed into the NHL all at the same time and way too fast.

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Yes, and I'm going to use something that I know you're familiar with, and this is for your viewers and listeners. When Lou Lamorello was really on top of the mountain, and he was for a long time, there was a thing called Lou U, and there weren't a lot of players that the New Jersey Devils drafted or signed that did not spend time at Lou U, and Lou U was the American Hockey League, and they were in a lot of different locations over the course of Lou's tenure, especially in New Jersey.

But I can only think of two players, and Marty Berger counts in this because he did play in Utica. I can only think of two players and marty burdell accounts in this because he did play in utica i can only think of two players that lou drafted that never spent time in the american hockey league one was scotty gomez and the other one was scotty niedermeyer i can't think of anybody else that lou drafted when he was in new jersey along with the great david conti who's a chief scout there at the time that didn't spend time at louood U. And they always made sure they had top coaches down there, guys spending a lot of time. I think the same thing about Detroit with Jimmy Devolano and Kenny Holland

and Scotty Bowman. And eventually, you know, you move on and Kenny's there and Scotty's moved on in Chicago and kind of retired. But those guys all went to the American Hockey League, whether it was Adirondack or whether it was in Grand Rapids. Those guys were playing. Detroit prospects were playing down in the minors. And look at the success they had.

So what bothers me the most is when people say the American Hockey League is being sent to the minors. No, it's not. It's being sent to the top developmental hockey league in the world. I've always sort of described the American Hockey League as the finishing school for the NHL. That's where you learn the defensive side for the NHL. Like you grad, like that's where you learn like the defensive side of the puck and you

learn how to round out your game and play in different environments and different positions than, than you're accustomed to. You know, I was having a conversation with someone about, um, about Pat Maroon the other day. And I used to watch Pat Maroon played one year in London in the,

in the OHL. He came in from St. Louis. He'd been coached by John Cooper in the NHL for a couple of years. London got him the Basil McRae St. Louis connection, a couple of other St. Louis born players on that London Knights team had a kind of a real St. Louis flavor to it. But the one year, and I remember outside of looking at Pat Maroon and seeing like this guy had

like the longest stick I've ever seen. He's like, like char a length, but he was so skilled. He was so skilled and not really overly physical. Like he was big, but he wasn't physical. You've seen these guys before. And then he gets, and then he gets to the phantoms of the American hockey league and realizes that's not going to work here. Chris Bartsch went through the same thing. It's not going to work here. I need to evolve and change and adapt my game. And if you put, like if you had like two,

two videos beside each other, Pat Maroon, you know, when he's winning Stanley Cups with Tampa and St. Louis and Pat Maroon playing with the London Knights, you would not know unless you saw the name bar that it was the same guy. And that's what the American Hockey League, it'll identify like what kind of player you can be

in the national league i love what you're saying because it's so spot on it has so much relevance too especially when you consider a situation like what's going on right now in buffalo um but now i you know the one year uh recently that i was working in ottawa before mr malnick passed away spent a lot of time with our team in Belleville. And I can tell you right now, Zach Kostopchik was a kid that was there for a short period of time. Then he went back to junior. But you could see, you could see just a short period of time he was there,

this was going to turn out to be a really good player for a long time in Ottawa. And there are a bunch of other guys. You just see whether they're going to be able to do it or not. And I just think it's an amazing place for teams to park prospects and give them an opportunity to really develop. And when they are ready, they come up. You know, about a month ago, I spent two days in Laval watching Montreal's farm team in Laval play against Providence.

I broadcast the games. And I would tell you this right now, Montreal, they're all talking about this prospect. They got about four guys down there that are going to come up and help their NHL team within the next year to two years. One of them is Luke Tuck. One of them is Florian Jacquet. Another one is Joshua Roy. Another one is Owen Beck.

Another one is Logan Bayou. You know, you look at it, they've got a whack of guys down there. They're really going to be good players. Yeah, let me just really quick, just asking you selfish look at it, they've got a whack of guys down there who are really going to be good players. Yeah, let me just really quick, just asking you selfishly on this, bro. What does Owen Beck look like? Because I haven't had a chance to see him in Laval at all. I loved him in junior. How's Owen Beck?

Owen Beck's outstanding. And he's starting to put up big numbers now too, Jeff, which is really cool. Dominant with the puck, learning how to play in his own zone, doing a much better job on face-offs. Even though he's not an overly gigantic guy, he's playing bigger. But what I like are his puck possession skills and his peripheral vision. So I'm going to say if he's not up by probably game 50 this year in the NHL, he'll be up at the tail end of the year for Montreal. And he'll play. That team's good. They should play numerous playoff games in the American Hockey League. You mentioned Ottawa a second ago.

I'm curious your thoughts on the nature of, a new term we have in the vernacular, soft tampering, which is an intriguing one. And the rumors around Brady Kachuk. I've looked at this one and I've said, there are 31 teams around the NHL who want Brady Kachuk, just because you want Brady

Chuck and have talked internally about Brady Kachuk. I don't believe that that qualifies as tampering, soft, hard, or otherwise. I don't believe that Brady Chuck's preference is to leave Ottawa. I think Brady Kachuk's preference is for, you know, for the Ottawa Senators to have a team full of Brady Kachuks and no passengers and to be a team that, you know, starts to compete for a playoff spot and eventually a Stanley Cup. But how do you how do you read this, the Brady Kachuk situation? Because, you know, Michael and Lauer, by putting that out through through Pierre Lebrun at the Athletic, you know, kind of lit a little bit of a fire here.

Yeah, I first of all, I just want to preface that I really respect Mr. Pierre Lebrun at the Athletic, you know, kind of lit a little bit of a fire here. Yeah. First of all, I just want to preface that I really respect Mr. Anlauer. When I interviewed for the GM's job with Montreal Canadiens, Mr. Anlauer was on the committee. He was part owner in Montreal at the time. And in the last interview that I had, it was Jeff Molson, Michael Anlauer, Kevin Gilmore, and Serge Savard, and an attorney for the team. I thought Michael Landlauer was amazingly appropriate in that meeting. It was a phenomenal last meeting. I really appreciate it. I think I had four or five talks with him all the time. I didn't get the job. Long story short, I've always had an affinity towards Michael Landlauer. I didn't like what

he said the other day. I have to tell you that. And if Michael asked me, I'd tell him the same thing. You either are tampering or you aren't tampering. There's no such thing as soft tampering. And, you know, I don't believe the New York Rangers tampered with Brady Kachuk. Tampering is dealing with the agent. Tampering is dealing with the player. You can have internal meetings all the time. And there's not one team in the league, including Ottawa, by the way, that doesn't sit down in pro scouting meetings and say, hey, wouldn't it be great if we could add Jeff Merrick and add him to our team in Ottawa? You say that internally about different players and different teams all the time. And you say, how much do you think it'll cost us to get Merrick? How many players are we going to have to give up? Are we deep enough at that position

in order to give up those players? So those conversations happen all the time. Unless they can prove that their text messages, phone calls, or direct communication in another form with Brady Kachukar's representatives at Newport Sports, there was no such thing as soft tampering. Zero. So let me ask you, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this example before. This is for our viewers and listeners. I'm curious whether you think this qualifies as tampering. So one former manager, and I asked him, it's like, okay, so like, I know all you guys do this. Like, this is like, the NHL world revolves around tampering, certainly around July 1st. I said, well, what's your secret sauce to not tamper?

And he said, what I would do is I would go to an agent of someone who I was interested in, and we'd have some small talk, and he'd say like, yeah, how you doing? What are you looking for? And I'd say, well, you know what? I'm looking for a six-foot-two right shotshot defenseman on an expiring contract. Maybe he played his junior in medicine hats. I'd probably go four times three if I could only find someone like that, but I don't know.

Maybe he was also traded to Prince George and maybe played his minor hockey here. I don't know if I can find that guy, but if I could, I'd go four by three. Do you consider that tampering, even though you haven't mentioned the person's name? No, I don't. It's the way the game is played. Some of the best deals, and you'll like this

because I think you're privy to it. Some of the best deals happen when pro scouts are in different ranks. Let's just say you and I are scouting and we're watching. You got anything going? And you'll say to me, yeah, we've got a few things going. What do you, what do you like? And I'll say, well, I like some big defense or we think we need a goaltender. Boy, you guys have a

lot of goalies. And then the other guy comes by and says, would you be interested? And I said, yeah, let me bring the message back to my, my GM. So that's how a lot of these deals actually get formulated. It's people discussing stuff in press boxes or on airplanes or on trains or bring the message back to my my GM so that's how a lot of these deals actually get formulated there's people discussing stuff in press boxes or on airplanes or on trains or maybe the pro scouts are traveling together you never know but there's a lot of stuff that gets put out there the one thing I do think the league is concerned with though and you touched on it how a lot of these deals are done right at 12 o'clock on July 1st. And I think the league is concerned about that because I remember the year.

Well, I don't remember the exact year, but I remember when it happened, when the Dallas Stars had, I think it was Donald Laudette, Billy Guerin, and somebody, they had three guys sitting in a podium at 12.01. Well, hang on. You can refresh my memory on this one. Wasn't Chara similar in Boston? It was 12.01, and there's Zdeno Chara with this very, very sophisticated contract

that the Boston Bruins have put together in 60 seconds. Well, part of the tie-in on that one, if you remember, Peter Shirely left Ottawa and went to Boston. And so that was the tie-in on that one, if you remember, Peter Shirely left Ottawa and went to Boston. And so that was the tie-in there. And I think there was a lot of bad blood on that one, if I remember correctly. Well, you know, and I'll tell you what, like that's what it winks at one of my other sort of favorite stories. And that is the Claude Giroux draft where Bobby Clark forgot his name.

And well, Ron Hextall, who had been, Ron Hextall went to Philadelphia Flyers and a few weeks before the draft had left to join Dean Lombardi in Los Angeles. And he'd been privy to all the draft meetings, et cetera, et cetera. And he knew that Bobby Clark, you know, wanted Trevor Lewis saw some of himself in the big power forward from Des Moines,

the big center from Des Moines and the USHL. And there it goes, Dean Lombardi up there and announces Trevor Lewis and Clark is just hot and, and like shooting dagger shooting daggers at Hextall at the Los Angeles Kings table and

then got up on stage and he was still hot about it and he forgot Claude Giroux's name Homer who we taking I'll never forget that one but that was but again like is what do you do with something like that someone that leaves unorganized I know that there's, there's certain protection on it now.

Like they have cleaned that up. Like, okay, no, you can't remember it was a branch of living. Couldn't sit at the Maple Leafs draft table, for example. So they,

they have tried to clean that up, but let's face it. I mean, this has happened with coaches. I remember Quinn with LA and Vancouver and et cetera. Like this has been happening for the longest time. I don't know how are you going to police it other than just make sure you don't embarrass the NHL with it by announcing a ton of deals at 1201.

Two o'clock maybe. You know, one of the bigger tampering ones and they got caught was Hartford when Mr. Carmanos and Jimmy Rutherford went in there the first time on Glenn Wesley. And they contacted Glenn Wesley, and it cost Hartford Whalers three first-round picks. Harry Sinner was a GM in Boston at the time, and that was one that quietly went away. But that was pretty significant at the time. That got everybody's attention in a hurry.

I think there was kind of a moratorium after that where guys started to pack off a little bit saying, whoa, that's pretty draconian. But no, to me, Ottawa, I would say this. Mr. Ann Lauer is a really good owner. I think Mr. Ann Lauer is going to keep his eyes on the prize. Sure, everybody would like that Brady Kachuk. I helped negotiate Brady Kachuk's contract, the one he's playing on right now. I know how valuable he is and how much respect I have for the father, who I had way back when when he was a kid at Malden Catholic in a hockey camp before he went to Boston University and played with Sean McEachern and Tony Amante. So I'm pretty familiar with the family.

Everybody would like to have Brady on their team. The truth of the matter is, he's always a signed player for the Ottawa centers. The Ottawa centers will determine whether they're going to trade him or not. Nobody else is. Let me pivot to something lighter here really quickly. Did you see Scott O'Neill and Joe Sacco last night?

I did. I did. Okay. You know what? I got a story before you go there. Go for it. Go for it. I'm in Hartford. I'm coaching against Pat Burns in the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I don't know why, but I think we end up, we do win the game.

And that's the year that Gilmore was just ripping the league apart. He ended up being the MVP of the league. And so, I don't know, Pat was yelling and screaming at our bench. And I didn't say much. I just looked over and he kept it going. And I didn't want to bug him at the end of the game because I consider him to be a good friend. So at the end of it, the next day, I call up Chris Broder, the trainer. And I said, hey, Chris, could you ask Bernsie if he's mad at me about something?

Because I'd love to talk to him. I don't want to bug him. And he went and he talked to Pat. He goes, no, no, he wasn't mad at you. He was mad at your assistant from when he played in Quebec when he and Dale Hunter were goon guys. He's mad at Paul Gillis and he's yelling

at Paul Gillis the whole game. So I was like, oh my goodness gracious. So anyways, Bergey and I sorted that out, but go ahead. I apologize. No, no, no. Listen, no. Because this is what I wanted to get out of you because we saw Scott O'Neill and Joe Sacco going at it, and

I'm glad you mentioned Pat Burns because I think we can all remember the 1993 conference final, Los Angeles and Toronto, Barry Melrose. I'll still remember, and you'll remember this one, the late John Brophy going at Jacques Demers and some of the... Don't forget Herphy going at Jacques Demers and some of the.

Don't forget Herb Brooks and Jacques Demers with the glasses. Yes, that's right. Oh, I forgot about that one. That's right. I mean, this used to be almost like it would happen like three or four times a year where coaches would go after each other. In the old autumn Buffalo, Torch and I had about three or four of those. You did, eh? So that's what I was going to ask you.

How close were you to having one of these when you coached the whale? A couple of times. Torch and I, for sure. That was Buffalo Hartford. We played them nine times. It was crazy. I don't know what.

And that's when Buffalo was a murderer. The power play was elite. John did such a good job of the power play. They had the late Dale Howard, Chuck, they had Doug Bogger, they had Pat LaFontaine, they had Uri Himalaya, they had Alexander McKeown. It was just a murderer's row, Jeff. You couldn't stop their power play. So a long time with them. And that would be about it. I mean, Burns, he was the only time like, what's he yelling at me for? And eventually we sorted it all out. I remember

one time, though, we beat Boston and we were old Boston guard. Tommy McPhee and Brian Sutter were coaching Boston. Boy, oh boy, when Brian got squirrely and he looked at you, you just didn't even want to look back. And I think I think I put somebody out against Oates that he wasn't happy with.

He might have changed on the fly. It might have been Mark Jansen. And he eyeballed me, and I was like, I don't think I want to be involved in this right now because he's looking squirrely. He's looking pretty squirrely. Were you on the Hartford bench? It's funny, you mentioned the Buffalo Sabres.

Brad May told me the story. It was the last game of the season, and he was like 15 penalty minutes shy of 300, and he had a bonus, like $10,000 if he got 300 penalty minutes. And I think it might have been Koharski. I think it might have been Don Koharski. Like Mayday did everything, and Don was like, and Mayday got on Koho and

hammered him with every salty word you've ever heard in your life. And Brad said, I was so frustrated because Koho knew that I was up for an extra 10 grand on my bonus. He said, Sam, I'm not going to give it to you. You're not going to get it. I'm not going to penalize you. And he said, Koho drove me.

And it was against Hartford. I don't think I was there for that one. I don't think I was there for that one. I don't believe I was there for that one. The one that I do remember, I was in Pittsburgh. Bob Johnson looked at the guys. We had already clinched first place. Looked at the guys. We were at Madison Square Garden.

He says, anybody need any bonuses? And Randy Gillum, the most humble guy on our team, just an amazing, diligent role player. Randy Gillen looks around sheepishly and says, well, if I get one assist, I get a little more money. I get a bonus. So Bob goes, you're out there. Get out there, Gillen.

Get out there. And he got his point and he got his bonus. So I was happy for him. But that used to be the thing. Honestly, I used to love that. Everybody would know, like there was that. I mean,

the first time I became aware of it was with the Toronto Maple Leafs, might've been like 78. And I think Lanny McDonald had a bonus for 40 goals last game of the season, empty net and Daryl Sittler passed it to him. And then the story came out the next day. He gave it to him so he could get his bonus. And then Harold would start benching guys towards the end of the season

so they couldn't get their bonuses. Like, okay, he's a couple assists short. Yeah, he's scratched for this game. He's not going to play, Roger. These guys aren't going to get in the game. That was always a nice sidebar that I always enjoyed in hockey growing up. Okay. Let me ask you about the Preds. Let me ask you about Barry Trotz.

This, I don't think anyone thought for one second that we'd be sitting here on December the 11th and the Nashville Predators would be team number 32. And that's where we are with Nashville. A couple of things. We've made a lot about the center position, and I think that is accurate, and I think that story is well told. The one thing that I keep coming back to with Nashville is I don't think it's a coincidence that Nashville's where they're at and Tampa's where they're at, considering Ryan McDonough just went from one to the other. I think he's one of the most underrated players in the entire NHL and has been

for a number of years. All you have to do is talk to any of his teammates. All you gotta do is watch him play. Um, but when you look at Nashville right now, a, what do you see? And B, do you have a thought on how this can get massaged or is the season already lost? And now all you're trying to do is mitigate the damage first of all i want to touch on mcdonough i went completely crazy when he got traded by montreal to the new york rangers and all you have to do is the great mitch melnick i still do his show it's been almost 25 years now friday after, or every day used to be from 5.05 to 5.30.

Now it's 5.35 to 6 o'clock. And I went crazy. I couldn't believe they did that. And that's when he was still at the University of Wisconsin. Could you imagine how good the Canadiens would have been? With P.K. Subban on the right side and Ryan McDonough on the left side for all those years? It would have been unbelievable.

Anyways, with Nashville, I think there are a couple things. One, the center ice position is spot on, especially when O'Reilly's not playing. That's a big problem. And you could see it in Montreal the other night when they lost 3-0. There was no Ryan O'Reilly after they had played in Toronto the night before, and it was a big problem for Nashville. They had no thrust through the middle. That affects Phillip Forsberg, that affects

Gus Nyquist, that affects Marcia So, and that obviously affects Stephen Stamkos a lot. That takes a lot of your offense right out of it. The second thing is there's only three teams in the NHL that have defensemen leading in scoring. One is Columbus with Zach Wierenski, but he's a plus nine.

The other one is Vancouver, Quinn Hughes. He's a plus nine. The other one is Vancouver, Quinn Hughes. He's a plus nine. The other one, believe it or not, Nashville, Roman Yossi, he's a leading scorer. He's minus 21. So it's not just the center ice position. There's a complete inability to defend there. The entire group doesn't defend well. And when they're not scoring because of that limited center ice play that you talked about jeff it is a massive problem i am absolutely shocked and dumbfounded where nashville is right now andrew mnett's a really good coach i can tell you right now todd richards darby hendrickson those guys are really good hockey men derrick mckenzie's a really good hockey man i don't get what's going on there i I don't get the sense, and listen, Barry Trotz,

you think of a couple of things. You think Stanley Cup, you think Jack Adams, you think longtime Nashville. Someone from a little bit older vintage might think of old Regina Pat's defenseman. I think coach first, even though he's a manager. I think that he's really trying to go out of his way to make sure that there's no conversation about Andrew Burnett behind the bench. I think that, I think that there's a, there's an understanding that Barry has that, you know what, this isn't,

this isn't coaching. This is construction. And, and that, and that one's on him. Do you get that same feeling, Pierre? Yeah. That's why I brought up those other things. Like center ice is clearly a problem. I think limited defense, and you nailed it, by the way, with Ryan McDonough. They missed Ryan McDonough, unbelievably. I mean, it's really apparent. I'm a huge, I think you are too, a Roman Yossi fan. Roman Yossi won the better players in the league. But he's minus 21. You can't make that up. Those are his numbers. I didn't do it. But he leads his team in scoring and he's still a mind.

Where would he be if he wasn't leading this team in scoring as a defenseman? He wouldn't be minus 21. He'd probably be minus 35. So, you know, they got issues there. It's not just offensive. They got issues defending in their own zone. Okay. So one of the things that sort of bounce around topics with you here, Pierre, one of the things that I always ask myself when there's a new scenario is what am I missing? Like I've thought a lot and talked a lot and written a lot and spoken a lot about this NCAA CHL situation and what it's all going to look like. appear and that is the NHL who are going to, you know, come in and essentially say, okay, these are how the relationships are going to work. Like it's, it's look, it's the old saying,

right? The NHL sneezes, everybody catches a cold. Every other league catches a cold. So the NHL will take a lead on this one. How do you see it all playing out? And is there something, you always think about the law of unforeseen circumstances or you know the the what what is everybody missing while we're looking over here something over there is happening and we're all missing it is there to you and over there that we're all missing that we're all not seeing and and how do you see this new reality of development where the NCAA is going to be on top of the pyramid. Congratulations, NCAA, you won. And now we're seeing the spirit of cooperation and trying to figure out how all these relationships are going to work. How do you read it? And is there something you think that we're all missing

here? I don't think anybody's missing much unless you don't look at the well-being of certain leagues. What happens to, for instance, Tier 2 junior hockey, whether it's in Alberta, whether it's in Saskatchewan, whether it's in Manitoba? Feeder for D3. Feeder for D3. Does that make sense? That's how I look at it.

So these are the questions that I have. What's going to happen to certain franchises in the USHL? You've been, I think, at the front of this in terms of coverage. I've read a lot of what you've written, and I think it's really appropriate. Most of my conversation has been with college coaches. I sat in a coaching office two and a half, almost three weeks ago now, with a family of a player who's being recruited by this team. And this young man's playing in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League right now.

And he's a really good player. And he's already committed to this school, but I was talking to the family and to the player. And he says, I think I need to play more at this level, being in the college level, so that I'm ready for when I'm a little bit older. And by older, I think he means 21 or 22, because he doesn't think he's going to be ready to play pro hockey when he's 18, 19, or 20, which I completely agree on.

I think that's what a lot of kids are looking at right now. And I don't know whether that's right or wrong, but I think that's how a lot of kids are looking at it. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe vibe Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines,

new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest and Peloton has everything you need. Whenever you need it, find your push, find your power. Peloton visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. A few more things before I let you go. I was saying at the top of the show, I think in a

salary cap universe, I don't think it's right to expect or ask goaltenders to steal games. Given the level of parity around the NHL, I think that's a really tough ask. I think you can ask a goalie to steal a period. I think you can ask a goalie to steal two periods, but a game is a tough ask. But we just saw Anthony Stolarz steal a game last night. Flat out, full stop, last call, all of it. It's over, get out, you know, wipe the table down,

everybody leaves. That was larceny last night. The Maple Leafs had no business. Never mind picking up a single point, picking up two points in that game last night. Do you have a thought on Anthony Stolarz? I do. I got a bunch of them.

The first time I ever saw him play live, he was playing for Nebraska Omaha. Oh yeah. Doc Emmerich and I were doing a game there for NBC Sports Network. It was Nebraska Omaha against Colorado College in Omaha. oh yeah doc emmerich and i were doing a game there for nbc sports network it was nebraska omaha against colorado college in omaha he was so good in that game and it wasn't long after that he left to go play for the london knights and i i tracked him ever since then and i i was with ottawa when he was at anaheim and he played against us on i think it was a saturday afternoon

might have been a sunday but he was so good he was so good in that game and you know watching him last year I thought he was really good when he had a chance to play in Florida obviously Dabrowski that was his net but when the Leafs got him I've been on the record since they got him one of the really I think under the radar acquisitions of the entire offseason last last offseason. And he's been great. But Joseph Wall's been equally good. And what's interesting there, most people don't even want to give the goalie coach any credit, but Curtis Sanford deserves a huge amount of credit in Toronto. Both of these guys have played fantastically well. And it's not like they're guessing.

They're playing a certain style. They're making themselves, and they are big people, but they're making themselves even bigger in goal. And what you said about Toronto last night, after the first period when the shots were 18 to one in favor of New Jersey,

I was going, what the heck is going on here? And then I see Austin Matthews has five breakaways in the game and he only hit the net twice

and one of them went in and thank God for Toronto it went in. It was an overtime. It was one of the more remarkable games thank God for Toronto went in. It was an overtime. It was, it was one of the more remarkable games. Really quick. Last thing,

Thatcher Demko's debut. Great to see him back, you know, on the Sakaris and Price show, they're talking about Vancouver. Like, you know, this is a manager.

Like you need to start to prepare yourself considering there's a hospital bracelet issue here. Like what does life without Demko possibly like you have to start planning for it um that has to be a thought for rutherford alvin happy to have him back but i mean you can't just wait until it's over you have to have a plan i'm i'm guessing vancouver's going through the securis and price we're talking about it yesterday so i want to get your thoughts on it yeah i bet you they do have a plan i bet you patrick and jimmy been talking about a lot along with cany get out on the rest of their staff so i i would say that you know they probably do have a plan i thought looking for his first time around yeah there was rust on him but i

thought thatcher was fine you know the game winning goal was it was a great play coming on the wall um but boy you know what though you guys you got to give credit where credit's due jeff uh that team in st lou, they're a captive audience, and they're believing what the professor is selling right now, and that's Jimmy Montgomery. He's done a tremendous job since he's gotten in there. And you can just see they're a team that's really motivated by whatever he's telling them.

They're unbelievably motivated to play for them. And, you know, the one guy that always stands out for me is one of the best playmakers in the NHL, and's robert thomas you know i mean you know how i feel about robert thomas and i don't go on gush about robert thomas and he's got to be like that first call for hockey canada for team canada um but do you have any 19 points in 16 games for robert thomas one of the most creative playmakers uh in the game you know on par with par with your Mitch Marner's, et cetera. Quick thought to conclude here on Robert Thomas. Well, first time I saw him play was a London night. Then I saw him as a Hamilton Bulldog.

And then I saw him in a Stanley Cup final. I actually did all their games that year that they won the Stanley Cup in 2019 and had a pretty good vocal relationship with him because he'd always stand and evaluate the other goalies during the warmups and that'd'd be right next to where i worked and i just think so much of him not only as a player he's an unbelievable player he talked about peripheral vision before his peripheral vision is unbelievable his ability to escape traffic is overwhelming it's just fantastic but he as good a player as he is he's an equally great person he's a tremendous young man i think the world of him yeah his uh his family's awesome his dad scott is like one of the most As good a player as he is, he's an equally great person. He's a tremendous young man.

I think the world of him. Yeah, his family's awesome. His dad, Scott, is like one of the most generous and kind people you're ever going to meet. You know, I always wondered, do you ever think about it? Because he's a bow-legged skater. I always look at skaters like that and say, ooh, are you not always concerned about the knee injury? Like when you look at skaters like that, do you not think like, ooh, there's a, that's something about him about him he's a strong skater he's awesome whenever i

see bowlegged skaters i always think oof just hope he doesn't get caught yeah the one one guy i always thought of was a jillbear perot when i was a kid growing up did i watch him play for montreal junior canadians and then i watched him play for the buffalo sabres and he was really bowlegged and then you get a chance to meet him when you're older and you're like, well, you know, maybe he's not as bowlegged as you thought. You ever see him do karaoke, by the way, just as an aside? Yes, I have, actually. Fantastic show, isn't it?

He's really good at it. He's really good at karaoke. Something that I'm no good at. Yeah, no, no, I'm the worst. Pick a key, Merrick. Any key. Pick a key. It's something. Just stay in tune. Listen, this has been delightful. We're going to do it regularly. Enjoy the rest of your day, Pierre. Thanks, as always, for stopping by. Continued success. And we'll check you out again here in short order on the sheet.

Thanks for popping by the Maiden Voice. Thank you so much, Pierre. Congratulations on your new show. Good luck on the show. Thanks, Mel day this month. I can't get out my head, lost all ambitions day to day. Guess you can call it a run. I went to the doc, man, he tried to give me a little medicine. I'm like, nah, man, that's fine.

I'm not against those methods, but it's me, myself, and I that's going to be fixing my mind. I turned on the music. I turned on the music. It's enough. I don't think you're sometimes losing. I'm out. Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations.

What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.